The Hill has an article on the Progressive Caucus strategy for dealing with cap & trade. It leaves the reader to infer quite a bit, so I thought I would helpfully translate.
Liberal House Democrats are shifting their political tactics on climate change after failing to secure a public option in the new healthcare reform law.
The move comes in the wake of liberals having to walk back threats that they would vote against a healthcare bill without a government-run program.
“Drawing the line in the sand too quickly was part of the lesson we learned on healthcare,” the co-chairman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, Rep. Raúl Grijalva (D-Ariz.), told The Hill.
“Nobody will ever take me seriously again, but WTF do I care, I’m safe.”
Grijalva voiced strong concerns about the direction of the climate and energy bill, which has moved toward the center as Democrats try to build a bipartisan consensus that can win 60 Senate votes. Sens. John Kerry (D-Mass.), Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) are leading the effort in the upper chamber to pass a comprehensive bill.
“Thank God for Joe. We can bitch about him to all our rich, pissed off hippie donors and still give the oil companies and big coal everything they want. Drill baby drill!”
A cap-and-trade program, which was included in the House bill that passed last year, is likely to be jettisoned, and President Barack Obama disappointed liberals last week by announcing his support for expanding offshore oil drilling. The president’s decision was seen as a move to garner the support of conservative Democrats and Republicans who would be open to voting for a comprehensive climate and energy measure.
“It’s moving away from what was already a series of compromises in the House,” Grijalva said of the Senate legislation.
“See this t-shirt I’m wearing underneath? It says “Drill baby drill!” We flash the Republicans in the cloakroom and laugh like hell.”
A group of 45 House Democrats, all members of the Sustainable Energy and Environment Coalition (SEEC), sent a letter late last month to congressional leaders, urging them to retain strong caps on carbon emissions. But the missive notably did not include any threat to oppose a stripped-down bill.
“We have enough votes to tank this pig if we want, but…uh…are you gonna eat that? Thanks, I love pickles.”
That stands in contrast to the language used last August in the healthcare debate, when 60 House Democrats signed a letter stating plainly that they could not vote for a bill that lacked a public option. Eight months later, every House liberal backed the final legislation even though the public option had been discarded.
The energy debate will be very different.
“The liberal base is on notice that any effort to engage in representative democracy will be resisted if it stands in the way of Exxon getting everything it wants. Want to see my t-shirt again?”
The co-chairman of SEEC, Rep. Jay Inslee (D-Wash.), said in a statement that the coalition members were “very encouraged by the bipartisan work to get an energy bill in the Senate.”
“PhRMA was a pack of weenies. Big oil makes sure their Republicans STAY bought.”
Other House lawmakers have also refrained from specific threats on climate change legislation, in a nod to the political reality of the Senate confirmed by the healthcare debate.
“We learned that the Senate does not always — in fact doesn’t ever — take the work that the House has done,” said Rep. Rush Holt (D-N.J.), a vice chairman of SEEC.
“Don’t look at me. I’m pwned by the medical industrial complex. I’ve already delivered this year. Oh, and make sure you put this in — ‘Joe Lieberman sucks.’”
The House bill was crafted by the chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, Rep. Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), and the chairman of the Select Committee for Energy Independence and Global Warming, Rep. Edward Markey (D-Mass.).
“I’m the one who gets to be impotent but well-intentioned on single payer. When we fuck the hippies on offshore drilling, all those putzes will say “we love him anyway, he’s great on health care.’ Don’t worry, we run this con all the time.”
Markey released an approving statement after Obama’s offshore drilling announcement, saying the decision “demonstrates his commitment to a comprehensive view of our energy policy.” Asked to comment on the direction of the Senate bill, a Markey spokesman, Eben Burnham-Snyder, said only that the chairman wanted the Senate to pass legislation “that can be merged with Waxman-Markey so the Congress can send a bill to the president this year.”
“Consolidated Edison, Constelation Energy, Covanta Energy, Dominion Energy, Edision International, DTE Energy, El Paso Corporation, Electronic Power Supply Corporatin, Entergy Corporation, NRG Energy, the Petroleum Marketers Association, PG&E, Progress Energy, Semper, Spectra, Teco Energy and Xcel dropped a shitpile of money on me, and I’m gonna stay bought too.”
Environmental advocacy groups like the Sierra Club and the Natural Resources Defense Council have kept up the push for a far-reaching climate bill that includes a cap on carbon emissions and strong reduction targets. The Sierra Club’s executive director, Mike Brune, told The Hill last month that the organization would actively oppose a bill that provided too many concessions to big industry groups.
The enviros will launch a big fundraising campaign to fight the bill, fire off a lot of angry press releases, succeed in adding a comma somewhere, declare victory even though disappointed that “we didn’t get everything we wanted,” give the Good Enviro Seal of Approval so Democrats have an excuse they can point to while their rich hippie donors are tearing them a new one, whip from the right and threaten to primary any Democrat who votes against it, launch another fundraising campaign by fear mongering about the dire consequences of the bill, then stop by the White House for cocktails and collect big checks from mystery donors they never have to disclose.
The environmental groups have also taken pains to point out the political differences between healthcare and energy policy, where the geographical cleavages can be as important as the ideological differences. “Climate has always been a bipartisan issue,” Sierra spokesman Josh Dorner said.
“Wayne Gilchrest was run out of office and that was a lesson to every member of the Republican Party who so much as thinks about being a global warming skepticism skeptic. I got your ‘bipartisan’ right here: Drill baby drill!”
The willingness of liberal Democrats to fight for a strong climate bill could set up a clash with the party’s base, which was already disheartened by the loss of the public option battle and the perception that liberals were outgunned by the conservative Blue Dogs.
Don’t look at me. We already set this table on health care. Environmentalism is practically a religion among rich hippies — the Sierra Club doesn’t pull $40 million a year out of its ass, you know. The big dollar donors don’t need any help flipping their shit over a crap energy bill, and now they know how the game is played.
“Progressives drawing a line in the sand for the public option was not the problem. Being weak and not sticking by their line in the sand was the problem,” said Adam Green, co-founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee. “Their credibility will be less than the Blue Dogs’ in every future policy battle until progressives draw a line in the sand and refuse to cave. If the climate bill is co-opted by oil companies, coal companies and other polluters, that may be a good place to start.”
Wait…wait. The energy companies pay big bucks to the Hill so they print shameless Lanny Davis/Anna Eschoo lobbyist puff pieces without question. How did that guy get in there? Quick. Give him a t-shirt.




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Jane, great as always. However, one correction:
I have contributed to Raúl Grijalva and several of his Progressive Caucus colleagues in the past.
Nunca mas.
I do stand corrected Allan you are absolutely right.
Loved that, thx. This saves me so much time and effort: I’ll just point to this post the next time my supposedly progressive congress critter/feel-good advocacy group comes running begging me for more money to “fight” for what’s right.
Jane Hamshire – bullshit translator Extraordinaire.
Hamsher, excuse me.
Friends of mine in West Virginia are already speculating the coal companies will use the recent tragedy in order to fight for mountaintop removal as a safe alternative.
Jane Hamsher – I so love it when you are ‘helpful’
Climate Action Now®
pass through-a-palooza ! y’all come :D
CAN do
Once again.
Can we please publicly and massive break witht he so called “firedogs” and all of the weak ass progressive caucus.
I know you wanted to wait Jane, but we don’t have time anymore. Unless a message is made loudly, clearly, and strongly the progressives will be perfectly happy to roll over again.
They need to learn there is a consequence for their actions.
Have we not crossed the Rubicon yet? Barack Obama and the so-called liberals in congress are Public Enemy No. 1, replacing the faux villains (Republicans, tea-baggers and the Conservadems) in an extraordinary display of corrupted bs. Pressure needs to be applied to the progressive congressmen in numerous ways, including looking into their former dealings with corporations and individuals and the sources of their campaign funding. And we need to bring this home to the people in their districts, which must be populated with that 10 percent persuadable liberal base of the Democratic Party that could make a difference by showing up for primaries and not showing up for general elections. Time to target these Philistines in sheep’s clothing and run them out of the game.
So, finally you communist inspired progressives agree that the LEFT is as corrupt as the right. Including Obama. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Meet the new boss, the same as the old boss
Just 48 hrs. after 25 miners lost their lives to King Coal, this is what they come up with. Every Congress person that supports this should be forced to enter the mines every time they have one of their many recesses and spend every day and every hour living the life of the miner.
Oh, and yeah, Joe Lieberman sucks but so do the whole fucking bunch of them.
Organize!
Obama translator: “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good” = “Don’t let perfectly reasonable standards be the enemy of what’s good for corporations”
Every American is about to take a 23-25% pay/income cut – IF they still have a job and/or IF they have any income – sooner than most realize. Perhaps the Liberal/Loyalist/Progressive leadership is trying to save what little Political Power they have left to focus on convincing their supporters on the need for a VAT (value added tax).
Maybe Congress will do environmental policy like they did health care – Mandate that the young and healthy buy health insurance.
They can mandate that all Prius owners pay the coal companies a yearly fee to help bring down prices for the big polluters.
The left’s part of the debate on the dangers of ignoring man-caused climate change is so unfocused at times. This gives the right and the deniers so much cover.
It’s very simple: the deniers, from the bottom to the top (tea partiers through elected officials to Exxon Mobil) should be asked the same question, endlessly: What if you are wrong?
Again,
Mr. Grijiva has learned the essential lesson all DC veal pen wannabes must learn – never, ever, oppose the corporations who control Congress. It can only lead to embarrassment and the contempt of your constituency. Better to be noncommittal on every issue and then vote the way you’re told at the end – don’t worry about your constituents because they’re too stupid to notice.
Yep, that’s the best way to serve your constituents, Raul; say nothing, take no stands on any issue, and then hope the voters don’t notice when you vote for every GOP POS thing ObamaRahmbo decides to shove your way.
I’m still trying to get people their Kucinich donations back. I know you want this but I don’t want to mire the blog down in that kind of fight at this very moment. I want people to have a chance to fully process what happened on health care.
Came across this fine article today at http://www.counterpunch.org and want to share some of it with all of you.
By the way, Happy Spring to all.
April 7, 2010
We Are Not Liberals!
Misrepresenting the Left
By RON JACOBS
“…..Despite the current media-induced confusion, liberals are not leftists. This misconception is not only embarrassing to those of us who are genuinely leftist in our politics, it is also discrediting the Left. From the New York Times to FOX News, the portrayal of the US Democratic party and Barack Obama as leftist is creating a perception in the US populace that leftists are ineffective politicos who have no principles they won’t modify. Of course, the Left has not done that great of a job explaining the situation in any other way, thereby leaving the way open for the misconceptions put forth by the media to appear as truth…..If one wants to know what a liberal is, they need only to look at The US Democratic Party. From Hillary Clinton to Dennis Kucinich, that party is in no way leftist. How can I say that? To begin with, liberals differ from leftists in fundamental ways. For starters, liberalism is founded on the sanctity of private property. According to John Locke, who is quite possibly the godfather of liberalism, it is the possession of property that gives humans their freedom. Indeed, in its early days, liberalism only saw freedom as being deserving to propertied males. While not disparaging the positive aspects of liberalism’s early days–its opposition to monarchy and the role of the Church, to name two of the most important ones–it is crucial to acknowledge the shortcomings of a philosophy grounded in the ownership of property. Since the fact of private ownership was a qualification for entry into self-governance it obviously excluded many members of those societies where the politics of liberalism replaced the monarchy and the Church. Add to this fact the denial of political power to women and (in the newly created United States) the acceptance of slavery, and the shortcomings of liberalism as a philosophy guaranteeing liberty and equality become glaringly obvious. It is understood by those that utilize a Marxist analysis to understand history that liberalism is a bourgeois philosophy, primarily because it protects the dominance of that class in those societies where it flourishes…..
[Edited by Moderator: your post exceeded the length that can legally be published without incurring the possibility of a law suit.]
The entire article can be read @:
http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs04072010.html
Pithy as always, Jan.
I’m still coming to hang out on your sofa.
Retaliate?
If it wasn’t for “man-caused climate change” we modern humans would be living under layers upon layers of Ice Ages (aka Glacial Ages)…
Dennis Kucinich is a FRAUD!!!!
Plain and Simple and I don’t care whether people agree with my take, and the often heard rationalizations for Dennis that he had to be cognizant of those “pragamtic concerns” in the political realm.
I would not donate one cent to these political/politician scoundrels!!!! Not one cent, let alone a dime or nickel!
Are you sick of being sick and tired, yet? Or do enjoy being a masochist and a glutton for more punishment by these scoundrels?
Your choice of course. Then again, don’t depend on these Dems to actually support with all their vigor and sweat, the issues which the GLBT community or the pro-choice community believe in and have fought and literally died in their fight? As for civil rights issues, let’s see how many National Democratic Party leaders, inlcuding Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, John Lewis, and Jim Clyburn, as to whether they come out and speak against the new “Confederate History Month” for April, which has just been signed by Governor McDonald in Virginia?
I honestly don’t see the point in supporting the progressives if this is how they roll.
what this letter tells me is this: “Vote for us progressives. we won’t actually DO anything, but you can feel good about yourself because we have the word ‘progressive’ in our name. Kinda like when you order the Super Jumbo Big Boy Meal With Double Extra Cheese and Gravy Fries With Deep-Fried Gravy, but with a Diet Coke. We’re like a football team that doesn’t play to win. We’re the Chicago Cubs of politics.”
Seriously: what’s the fucking point of supporting them? i want to know, and hope someone can answer a serious question.
That’s where they fucked up on healthcare, so their takeaway was “Don’t even bother to pretend having principles.” I think this is actually helpful; had they been that honest at the beginning of the HC tapdance, things would have looked rather different over the last year.
That’s ridiculous! We were in an interglacial period PRIOR to humans causing a significant rise in CO2. Do you often make such claims without citation?
Isn’t it amazing how like self-parodies these “progressives” now sound? Waxman-Markey and Kerry-Boxer were both bills that failed to address climate change effectively. All the big reductions were decades down the road. All the giveaways, like permits, were in the here and now.
Healthcare, the financial industry, climate change, each of these represents an unsustainable system. Yet these so-called progressives continue to treat them all in a business as usual fashion. But unsustainable means precisely that they can’t be treated as business as usual.
As the healthcare debate so graphically and effectively illustrated, there are no progressives (who will act and vote as progressives), not one, in the Congress and the White House.
I reject the idea that Obama, or most of Congress including the “Progressive” Caucus, is anywhere near leftist (or even center-left) in any way, shape, or form.
The sand was the problem, too many people could see the line in the sand. We need to draw a line in the ether so wherever we end up we can say we stood our ground!/s
Can we at least get Federal help in migrating to Canada when the US becomes uninhabitable (thanks in part to their caving to the coal industry)?
Oy, I left that part out too.
Yep. If they’d had to tell their constituents what they were planning, rather than engage in a bunch of kabuki, we could have had an honest discussion about “why a D+38 district with 98% support for a public option can’t ask for one.”
Well, now their constituents can cross their arms and tap their feet and say “WFT, I’ve seen this movie before” on climate change.
It’s not as ridiculous as “man-caused climate change” …
Dear “Progressives” and others,
Please Stop the Insanity and Stop Supporting these Democrats! It’s your choice, but as the saying/definition goes, in simplifying the word “insanity”:
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” -Benjamin Franklin
The problem is that “progressives” yell and scream when nothing is at stake, and then are nowhere to be found when something is at stake. This is their normal, routine behavior, and it explains why there are no progressive political leaders, why the “progressives” have as their “leaders” people who are not in fact progressive. See e.g. “Fundamental Flaws in Progressive Ideology“…
And very wise, yet again, Jane.
Great post: you made me laugh and that helps too. A lot.
“man-caused climate change” is not the least bit ridiculous. I cause climate change every winter when I turn on the furnace and every summer when I crank the AC.
Give me a heads-up when you’re on your way. I’ll brush the cat hair off the sofa and have some Miller Lite on ice.
(Do I have to get out of my jammies?)
Yeah, we’ve only been able to quantify the effect of increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide for a century, now. It’s all a conspiracy.
Every time I fire my truck up.
Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is available: Group that Lobbied Republican Governor to Honor Confederacy Tied to White Supremacists
And what, pray do you base your denial on? I want citation. Science is NOT an opinion, nor are your opinions and ideology relevant to the discussion of science, despite what Rush and Glenn and Sean tell you.
The atmosphere of Earth is a layer of gases surrounding the planet Earth that is retained by Earth’s gravity. The atmosphere protects life on Earth by absorbing ultraviolet solar radiation, warming the surface through heat retention (greenhouse effect), and reducing temperature extremes between day and night. Dry air contains roughly (by volume) 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1%.
.038% co2.
I wonder what it’ll be up to next year.
Salesmanship – esplainin the words you misunderstood when you decided to vote for change. Scrap paper or a marketing plan? This is what they ran on (except maybe Stupak) and said they would do:
- Today, at a defining moment in our history, the Democratic Party resolves to renew America’s promise.
- Careless policies, inept stewardship and the broken politics …have taken their toll on our economy, our security and our reputation.
- But even worse than the conditions we find ourselves in are the false promises that brought us here. (HOW IRONIC, YOU THINK?)
- They promised reform but allowed the oil companies to write our energy agenda…
- These are not just policy failures. They are failures of a broken politics –a politics that rewards self-interest over the common interest and the short-term over the long-term, that puts our government at the service of the powerful. A politics that creates a state-of-the-art system for doling out favors and shuts out the voice of the American people.
- Today, we pledge a return to core moral principles like stewardship, service to others, personal responsibility, shared sacrifice and a fair shot for all –values that emanate from the integrity and optimism of our Founders and generations of Americans since. Today, we Democrats offer leaders – from the White House to the State House – worthy of this country’s trust. (WHAT A FUCKING JOKE!)
- I. Renewing the American Dream, New American Energy
- We should use government procurement policies to incentivize domestic production of clean and renewable energy…we will call on businesses, government, and the American people to make America 50 percent more energy efficient by 2030…We’ll dramatically increase the fuel efficiency of automobiles…We’ll invest in advanced biofuels like cellulosic ethanol which will provide American-grown fuel and help free us from the tyranny of oil.…To lower the price of gasoline, we will crack down on speculators who are driving up prices beyond the natural market rate….Democrats will halt this dangerous trend, (LAUGH HERE) and take the necessary steps to achieving energy independence. We will make it a top priority to reduce oil consumption by at least 35 percent, or ten million barrels per day, by 2030…We will recognize that our parks are national treasures, and will ensure that they are protected as part of the overall natural system so they are here for generations to come. We are committed to conserving the lands used by hunters and anglers, and we will open millions of new acres of land to public hunting and fishing.
http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html
Believing that the Democrats meant this con? Now THAT’S fucking retarded. GO RAHM!
No one who *matters* is going to do a goddamned thing about climate change. This has been clear for a couple of years. And Copenhagen was the last straw.
I have stopped waiting. Stopped praying. And stopped hoping. It’s a lot like waiting for the Catholic Church to do any meaningful about abuse.
It is what it is.
There are only 3 questions now:
1) How much effect grassroots individual changes will have on quality of individual lives and climate change, in general.
2) If, and how quickly, a nascent and disadvantaged green economy can overtake the polluting economy, given all the present and climate-related economic turmoil to come, and how much *real* difference this can make.
3) If, and when the error of doing nothing will have any effect on the powers that be.
I agree, and the funny part is, they don’t realize how idiotic they sound. They’ve been spayed and neutered, the whole bunch. It would be funny if the consequences weren’t so tragic.
Oh good, a member of the Texas schoolbook committee graces us with their presence: the earth is flat, climate change doesn’t exist, Darwin was wrong, free markets always work. Yet these same science deniers still flip on light switches and use computers without a second thought to the science that made them possible.
wizard, learn to link. Copy & paste is both rude and a potential copyright breach.
Let’s see….the last period of glaciation in North America ended about 12,000 years ago, creating the Great Lakes, Lake Bonneville and etc. Is karmi going to tell us that it was all of the coal fired power plants that kept us from “living under layers of ice” or will he or she fall back on the old standby “the Earth is only 6,000 years old”? Anthropomorphic Climate Change is a THEORY, the same way that gravity is a THEORY. The fact that science cannot yet entirely describe either phenomena doesn’t mean they don’t exist. The models of gravity break down on the quantum level, everything we think we understand doesn’t apply, yet I don’t hear anybody beating the drum to deny the existence of gravity.
You’re preaching to the choir. I’m a scientific researcher.
We are doomed!!!
You mean the beer will run out?
Not to mention the fact that it’s way easy to link in this format…
I wish! THAT would get the attention of the redneck deniers at least.
Margaret, you are wrong. The Rs attribute continually falling flat on their faces to the Will of God, not gravity.
Jane,
I understnad your reasoning, but I don’t think we have time for that to be 100% honest here.
The “Progressive” caucus is planning to do the exact same thing on climate change as it did on HCR. There’s no spine among the lot of them. And once that happens, once we have a second example of the “Progressive” caucus so sompletely caving into everything Obama wanted, I fear there’s no changing that course.
That will be what progressivism is, center maybe center left.
That’s not what I want it to be defined as. And for that to happen we need to stand up and scream about it.
Nothing else is going to be noticed. We can’t do what we did for healthcare, it doesn’t work. We’ve proven it doesn’t work. We need something that will truly shake them, and this is all I got right now.
FDL needs to get more radicalized. Radicalized will be a word of some contention, but playing nice isn’t going to work.
That’s why quantum pigs fly. Regular pigs, not so much. :-))
This is the relevant piece:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v399/n6735/abs/399429a0.html
Gravity is a hoax!
LMAO! I wonder if anybody’s done a study….?
Green economies don’t “overtake” polluting economies — green economies SUPPLEMENT polluting economies until such time as the former impedes the profit motives of the latter. The problem of sustainable political economy is always first a matter of getting rid of the capitalist system.
Apparently.
I’m surprised DKos has nothing about this on the main page.
Oh wait, no I’m not.
The amount of blogs I read has dropped greatly over the past few weeks. Seems like this is one of the few true progressive, non-corporatist sites left.
uh, I think Michael Bennet already gave Adam Green a t shirt
would like to be wrong
We should ask Brian Greene. Our denier scholar might want to avoid this one. Wouldn’t want his/her head to explode.
Define your own self how you may.
Jane cannot just wave a magic wand and have the scales fall from everyone’s eyes. It doesn’t work like that. And it takes time. And without a new consciousness there is no real change, only more herding. Jane is not the herding kind of leader. She’s got higher goals for herself and for everyone here and beyond. Anything else is just us against them with a competing narrative. I want truth. Not *just* politics.
Let them do with energy what they did with HCR. We see the pattern. We have a record. We will have a second record, exactly the same as the first. A second record that was predicted ahead of time, as in NOW.
Fewer people believe. Maybe they get to do it a third time ~ maybe no one is left to listen by then.
Eventually, it won’t work. THEN there’s room for a new vision. Only then.
I’m sure blackwaterdog will have something on it . . . just as soon as he completes his fabu WH Sanctioned Assassination Photo Diary :D
I love Brian Greene!
AEP…..turn off the lights. The slogan No coal no lights.
And if the people in a community right next to one of AEP’s coal burning power plants about cancer rates, health complications from air borne particulate matter. They buy you out. Have you sign a contract which says you will never sue them for health complications in the future. And then move your town.
cheshire Ohio
The Blue Plume
Spring & Summer 2001 AEP completes the first selective catalytic reduction unit (SCRs) at Gavin, which will reduce nitrogen oxide emissions by at least 85%. But this newest pollution control device causes more concern among Cheshire residents. The SCRs emit an unexpected byproduct: sulfuric acid aerosol or sulfur trioxide.
This becomes particularly daunting on hot and humid days, when these emissions cover the town in a thick, blue haze referred to by residents as the sinister “blue plume.”
“Blue Plume”, 2001
Residents in town complain to the Ohio EPA about sore throats, sore eyes and difficulties breathing. After village requests, the Ohio EPA sets up a device in the Village Hall to monitor the sulfur emissions of the plant. The monitor serves to record the sulfur dioxide levels. Residents are concerned that the Ohio EPA is not pressuring Gavin to reduce its sulfur dioxide emissions, which the monitor clearly shows are elevated at certain times.
Fall 2001 Frustrated by the continuing sulfuric acid emissions, as well as the unrelenting dust and fly ash, the village council and individual residents hire a law group to represent them in pursuing property and possible health damages against Gavin’s owner American Electric Power (AEP). The village hopes that legal pressure will convince Gavin to reduce its emissions, even if the plant is in compliance with the existing legal limits of emissions.
http://www.cheshiretransaction.com/town/sub/cngtown.html
No. The CPC caves; it’s what they do.
This is no time for levity.
Fuck the “liberals” in Congress. They’ll come up some some half-assed piece of shit and then preen before the camera’s telling the American public what fantastic legislatation it is and how it’s going to save the polar bears and the planet. It will all be bullshit because there is no “movement” holding them accountable.
*GROAN*
That’s just cynical enough to be extremely likely.
My 30-year-old CRC Handbook quotes it at 0.033%, IIRC. Tells you a lot right there. (Need to find the old one (22nd edition) and check its numbers.)
Now if only they could find a method,
a system where the traders on Wall Street could be engaged in,
you know, some kind of trading
scheme(oops, so soory, meant system) and then regulators and lobbyists and attorneys, just like everybody in the whole village couldgame it(sorry again) get involved with.Then we won’t have to worry, they’ll have fixed it.
There’s another one:
4) how long until we die from it
I think that’s Sempra, not Semper.
Just saying.
THANK YOU!
If you haven’t already, could you write up a Seminal diary on this?
You’d like me to write a diary on anthropomorphic climate change?
Second verse, same as the first.
As I see it, a big part of the issue or concern or problem, if you will, is that many Democratic voters truly aren’t all that “left” or “progressive” anymore. For the past six months or so, I have been stealthily canvassing various friends and colleagues of mine who I know are long-time Democratic voters; most lead low-key, conscientious lifestyles; nearly all are pro-choice; nearly all were “radicals” in their youth and marched and demonstrated early on, if not more recently (depending on the cause).
Most these days are quite satisfied with BHO and HCR. Seriously. And even when I point out the very obvious issues with HCR, I get the veal pen response of: well, it’s better than what Republics do. Or even: you just have to be prepared to compromise. Or I even heard: sometimes you have to settle for the lesser of 2 evils.
And so: there you go. It’s not so much that the pols think that they can “fool” the voters into “believing” something. I am now beginning to believe that the vast rightwing conspiracy to push the Overton window has been one giant success. The so-called “left” is as brainwashed as the right, and we HAVE become a center-right country, whether we here at FDL like it or not.
Hey: I’m all for pushing against the empire and doing whatever I can to counteract this crap, but as a realist, I have to call it as I see it. The older boomer dfh have mostly caved through being busy, overworked, lazy or whatever. That’s my take from my where I perch.
That said: thanks for the post. Insightful, educational and sadly sickening as always.
I agree that what we did vis HCR really didn’t work out all that well. Yet at the least, I think we need to do more of the same – if nothing else – with this. To do nothing is unacceptable. However, I am more than open to other suggested approaches for dealing with this.
Heh… I hear you, but I am (seriously) just waiting for the wingers to come out denying that gravity exists. It’s conceivable. Nothing would surprise me these days. One of those 6000 year old earth, dinos roaming with Adam & Eve, museums just opened up in SoCal. Let’s hear it for how Sir Isaac Newton was commuining wid de debbil.
I’m pretty sure you mean anthropogenic, unless you’re looking at the clouds after having eaten some shrooms. Lucy in the sky and all that. ;)
For years, many years I would take litmus paper with on trips into the BWCA (Canadian Shield Lakes) and measure both rainfall ph and lake ph. The Canadian Shield lakes (similar to the Finger Lakes) are predominately rock and sand bottom, little organic material to buffer the affects of acid as compared to most other lakes.
I was amazed at the acidity of the rainfall. But then we looked at maps and attempted to determine where it originated, we had no clue as there was little industrial development on the upwind or windward side here in the US. I guess that leaves from across the pond?
I said it on Kos and I will abbreviate it here. Maybe Jane Hamsher is the one who needs to start this off:
I fully believe that the left will not be taken seriously unless we are to engage in the same type of call-to-arms (figurative) rallying we see the teabaggers do.
If a couple hundred thousand lefties showed up at the Capitol demanding climate bills or health care the media would eventually take notice of it.
But this isn’t just about the media, this is about the narrative. And if we continue to simply write sternly-worded letters and sign online petitions we will be marginalized.
I want angry lefties physically marching to places and demanding that our damn representatives…you know, represent us!
If teabagger insanity can get people to shrivel up and cower, then why can’t well-informed but MAD AS HELL AND NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE liberalism do it too?
We have got to change our tactics and yesterday. Otherwise I don’t know what we expect to change.
Jane if you want to get the ball rolling (since you have clout and notoriety, etc) I would be more than happy to join you.
You’re right. Thanks for the correction. :-)
Jane,why not call it the ‘origami caucus’?
A third party is all we have left to vote for.
Does anyone else suspect that we’ll end up with a new system that will allow or provide for further plundering by Traders, Banks and Corps?
That’s a very….silly…way of looking at it.
And it’s taking everything I have to not make that silly a much stronger word sir.
So let me see if I understand you correctly. We should give up on doing anything else real during Obama’s turn and let the Democrats sell out over and over again. Because then people will be so disgusted by Democrats they’ll elect…better Democrats?
You do see the problem with your logic right? Please tell me you see the problem with your logic or I will use that stronger word.
There are only two ways that ends. People are so disgusted with Democrats they vote Republican, in which case doing nothing screwed us. Or Peopel are so disgusted with Democrats but also with Republicans so they start a revolution.
There’s not going to be some magical “Oh my god these dems suck lets vote in better ones!” DINOs do not get replaced by other Democrats. The party machine has made sure of that.
No action by us is the only way we will ever get what we want. Sitting back and just waiting is beyond foolish and I’ll not be a prt of it ever.
You almost seem like an agent provacateur trying to make us do nothing.
Here here.
Lead us Jane. Make the call. Don’t be afraid of the fight.
you have an army waiting for you.
Had the Same Thought last Night
What would happen if a few Thousand of us showed up in DC or Ten Thousand ?
To go along with using our dogs’ names when subscribing to magazines [to be able to discover who sold said name to which mailer], we have an imaginary company that we list when needed: Helpful Puppy Enterprises. Because you know how “helpful” most puppies are.
Looks like we could hire Jane as a spokesperson.
Who are the Green Party and other independent candidates running this year for Congress? Will FDL devote its organizing and fundraising efforts to electing those Green candidates, and dump the Democrats? I ask this in all seriousness, because we on the left must demonstrate that if the Democrats won’t represent us then we can and will support those who do.
OTOH, the good news is that means they can’t reproduce!
Revisiting EPU land. The damage done by the massive Progressive Caucus Fail is more widespread than I imagined. You nailed Sierra club and all those phonies. Jeffrey St. Clair has been on about this for years, speaking of Counterpunch.
Snipers on rooftops.
Choppers in the air.
Mounted police.
Intimidation.
Are you up for it? I am.
I’m all for marching, and I don’t want to toss cold water on anyone’s ideas. Please go for it, by all means, and some here (and others will join in). But a dose of reality goes a long way.
No disrespect intended, but are you aware that over 10,000 (by several estimates that I was able to find) marched on the White House back in early March on the anniversary of the start of the Iraq war? And that there were numerous demos on the same day in other US cities in protest?
If not: welcome to what happens when lefties rally and protest.
That particular happened also to be the big teabagger rally outside the capital, where some tea partiers called racial remarks and spit at congress folk as they walked into the capital, egged on by Republics standing on the balcony.
there were far fewer teabaggers at that rally than the one at the white house. Yet which one got endless coverage all over your tv and radio dial?
Of course, teabaggers hurling out racist remarks is a lot more interesting to consumers (I guess) – or at least, it’s the message that our corporate sponsors want to send out.
So: I dunno. Rallies, yes. Not so convinced that it will do a whole lot more than what’s been happening so far. I’m game, but just saying….
Maybe we could rally and protest the media themselves. Go to the networks and raise Cain. Then they’ll have to cover it.
Watching the Ds, with emphasis on the used to be progressives, and the Rs in DC is beginning to be like watching an opera in a foreign language. There seems to be a lot of posturing and shouting but it really doesn’t make any sense to those of us that don’t speak the language.
The single biggest win for Team Obama was to get all of the politically left posturing congress to roll over on the health insurance reform and admit it in public. That act, among others, cut them of from what they claimed they were about and made it easy for them to stand for even less in the future. Classic drug dealer technique, the first hit is free in order to break the inhibition to do wrong. Spinelessness under the guise of pragmatism, followed up with increases in lobbyist donations and all they have to do is leave their antiquated ethics and less affluent donors behind. Perhaps this will force the single issue environmental liberals to fish or cut bait. More likely they will reel in a tire and take home for supper.
Abraham Lincoln knew this day would come.
The USA corporate govt. run by the court jesters who call themselves Democrats and Republican.
The american people no longer have a govt that serve them.
Exxon, BP, Shell, Texaco, run all of the USA foreign policies.
Iraq, Iran, Saudia Arabia, all = OIL and OIL = GOD
Jane, Gleenwald, Green, have expose the Democrats as a bunch of liars!
But I have a FEELING the EARTH is going to win this one! and us Humans are going to lose. It is 90′s degrees already and it is only April
Maybe a Spokesperson with National Main Stream Media (and faux) attention is needed?
(and I hadn’t heard about the anti-war rally in early March and I do try to stay informed)
3/4/10 – “thousands” did show up in DC – it may have been organized by HCAN/Labor, but the participants were clearly willing to be arrested – there was nary a peep. might lead one to believe it has nothing to do with the number of participants or their acts – may have something to do with TradMed’s current crush
Karmi:
What if you and your climate change deniers are wrong? “I told you so” might be minimally satisfying, but by then we would all be so screwed, kind of like the satisfaction experienced by Brooksley Born in her public take down of Alan Greenspan in a post below.
Leftist protests are severely downplayed or totally ignored by big media. Antiwar protests were huge. Protests against blue dogs at the Dem Convention were ignored – protest groups were infiltrated by rethugs – leftys were arrested. Major lefty news anchor was mugged. No MSM play. Only teabaggers get air time. Republicans own the airwaves.
I would be also. At least, when my children ask me in 10 years what happened to the country that they’ve read about, I could say I did something, at least.
That being the case why are you expecting everyone to donate to bill halter. He will join these phony progressives. Give up on the democrats and join the green party!
There were more than ten thousand there to protest Bush’s first inauguration, another one of the those historic events not covered by the MSM. Not threatened, simply ignored. Right wingers that serve a purpose for the Faux News get coverage because it suits Murdoch (the morlock). Seems that even protests require sponsorship.
exactly Brendan. Why support Bill Halter?
lolzzzzzzzz. I said (and think) absolutely nothing of the sort. This is what is in your head, not mine. You clearly did not understand anything I said about how people get educated and come to understand what is really happening. That’s where real change comes from and you totally missed the point.
I said nothing about *correct* action. I am tired of people who rail at all of us that we must do this and we must do that. Stop it, please.
If you see something that *must* be done ~ do it. Start your own damn movement. Don’t tell us what to do. And do not tell me what to do. Or what I think.
And just what the heck is logical about ordering a bunch of people here about????
actually the thought I had last night while contemplating all this egregious shit was, What If 250,000 showed up?
Be tough to ignore that many. Hell, it would be tough for anyone to move around the capitol and the W.H. with that many milling around, asking to see their elected reps.
ObamaRahma’s plan may work out even worse than we thought … I saw a report on CNN about the trouble Wasserman-Schultz is having at her public meetings this week. It’s a replay of the town hall anti-HCR blitz of last summer. So much for people changing their mind about the bill once it was passed. It could be more of a pr disaster than we thought it would be.
MoneyBomb!!!
Where is Weiner lately?
Spot on comment.
Our corporate president Obama will not do anything not approved by the corporations and the rich – in any industry.
With THE GOP it was more obvious – with Obama playing first black president (he finally put in his census form “African American” – interesting), not so much
Liberals and progressives find it hard to jump on someone who is obviously a nice family man/person, but we have to expect the future will not be changed until Obama is replaced in 2012. Hope and Change you can believe in will be deferred as we get corporate welfare checks sold as liberal policy in every industry,.
Don’t worry, I’m sure he’s being a disingenuous pilferer of people’s hard-earned cash somewhere, and he’ll surely find his way back to us shortly.
Unless there is a wonderful pony well hidden inside that no one has found yet, history suggests that the highest approval for the bill and it’s effects occur within the first two or three weeks. People want to approve of decisions made ostensibly on their behalf. Once the short-term effects kick in, like the insurance premium hikes and the employers that decide to react to that by reducing their stake, the mood will probably be less supportive.
I think we just need to create some kind of anticipated theater for the Jerry Springer effect. How about we all line up and sign a GIANT pledge to vote for Democrats (fake progressive or not) and then ball it up in a great big heap and have a bonfire to signify how worthless their signatures and promises are?
Perhaps Grijalva has learned to get something in return via Sanders’ example. Agree or not, but if Grijalva gets his Southern Arizona Public Lands Protection Act of 2009 (HR2944) somehow as an amendment to the Climate Change Bill he would again win progressive votes here.
Mining in Pima County is a really big deal down here, but Kyle and McCain would fight it hard in the Senate. But if McCain gets some more Nuclear Power Plants that will probably be the exchange.
The fight will be on as to where McCain is going to get his Uranium from. It is in the Grand Canyon area. I suspect the real faux fight will be Grijalva trying to fight mining there because of the Indian land.
What Grijalva probably hasn’t realized yet is that the “progressives” will always loose with this admin. But then, again, Giffords is with him on HR2944. I suspect there are some backroom deals going on down here.
Tucson is the only halfway progressive area left because of some pretty hardcore environmentalists. But if the faux ones (Sierra Club) continue to support Obama, then frankly we are screwed down here.
http://www.willcoxrangenews.com/articles/2010/01/27/news/news21.txt
Same as before man.
Depends on the Green Candidate. If they agree with me on issues then yes I will.
Local Green Party spokeswoman was on the radio a month or so ago. Could not outline the Party’s stance on anything, only that we need an alternative. Very disappointing.
Have to climb on this one, It Looks Like Support for HCR is heading south, fast
Perhaps I’m missing something but from reading that over and over that is exactly what you want us to do. Do nothing and hope really really hard.
Re reading you again that is not what you said. But OK assume it’s true. What do you think peopel have been doign since the 60′s? Education only works if the playing field is fair. You think theose “real americans” weren’t educated? Of course they were, just educated in the wrong things.
Waiting for education to work it’s magic is liek waiting for the sun to burn out. We have to force them to see the truth.
This from a person who used “We” also “We will see” “we will have a records”..
I use We for the same reason you do. That is a silly thing to try and argue about. So no, YOU stop.
Me orderign them about? Nothing, which is why I never said hey everyone go do this now. I’m saying I believe we need to do this. If you don’t think I have a right to my opinion well…then you don’t belong on the left.
Jane telling us what to do and ordering us about, if it’s in common cause on a real issue. is EXTREMELY logical.
This is my point. All the Green party reall is is “hi we’re lefties but not Democrats” They don’t have any coherent stances on anything I have ever heard.
that’s not a party that really grabs me and makes me want to join.
When ya make statements like that here a link is expected.
Yup.
sorry, and I stand corrected. Will attempt to not repeat that mistake
http://elections.firedoglake.com/2010/03/30/perceptions-of-health-care-reform-might-weigh-heavily-on-dems-in-november/
Between 200,000 and 500,000 showed up in Washington last month in support of comprehensive immigration reform, but they are still being told, “not now”. Apparently unless the language you are using with Congress is green and looks great stuffed in envelopes, Congress can’t hear you.
Responses to my emails are arriving two to three months (if ever) after I send them to my Senators.
Not so good with the W.H. No Response in 14 months. First W.H. ever (since ’64) that hasn’t responded to my letters or emails.
Bushy 2 even sent me a Christmas Card, but not the current occupant. No reply.
I’m Transparent
What about Donna Edwards? Has she returned the money?
I AGREE!
I said as much at the beginning of the health care debate: that fdl should go for single payer, not the public option.
They’re moving fast. Waiting now is doing nothing, having no voice.
Jane, you’re asking people if FDL should get involved in legalizing marijuana. My priorities would be to work hard for meaningful financial reform first.
I appreciate you’re thinking “outside the box” and trying to find a new way forward. And I agree that the same tactics won’t work on climate change. I think the enviros are going to have to sink or swim on their on in terms of action. We’ll cover it, of course, but for all the reasons you have outlined, I suspect there is really no way for us to impact the outcome.
But I think that something that is negative and reactive at this time isn’t the best move for us. As reader says above, you have to give people time to catch up. We’re looking into pot legalization now, and while we haven’t decided anything firmly, I like that it’s outside of party politics and focused on ballot initiatives.
Once people have engaged in something positive you can consider doing what you’re talking about, because otherwise you risk devolving into bitterness and negativity. People are close to that already. My sense of the community is that it would drive people into withdrawal and defeatism, and that is nothing I want to be combatting.
This last HCR kabuki just took the heart out of me. Dennis took the last bit. They don’t need any of our money. BIG MONEY will buy them all the votes they need!
Maybe a ballot initiative that we can all get behind will be something that reverses the Citizens United ruling. I think we can all agree that a root cause of so much of this corporatist push-through is that we have no real separation of Business and State like we do with church and state.
What about getting a constitutional amendment process started? Lets separate business from state. Of course, we don’t want to eliminate the ability of government to regulate commerce, but we also don’t want corporations to pretty much run government. That seems to me to be where we can focus some energy at a grass roots level.
i’m planning on doing a write in vote. it’d be nice if it was organized with a lot of other people so as to send a clear message.
good idea. and/or reversing the fantasy notion that corporations are people. right now, i’m of a mind to put a number of them in jail, throw away the key.
in brazil, in 1959, a protest write-in vote for a rhino at the zoo won a city council election.
link for 137
I can’t speak for Inquisitr, and I’m sure you have your finger on the pulse of things better than I do, and I’m sure part of this is colored by my own desire, but I kind of get the impression that large numbers of people are looking for a statement to get behind, a sort of, “We’re mad as hell, and we’re not going to take it anymore.” kind of thing. My sense of the defeatism is as a direct result of the fact that there’s nothing happening other than sitting awash in our own powerlessness.
That said, I’m not sure the public breaking with the FireDogs is the best outlet, or action, to harness that. It certainly is something that speaks to the community directly, because it’s a sort of personal affront to the support that FDL mobilized, but at best you get to shame those people, and they seem to have proven themselves shameless, so…
Some kind of statement regarding it makes sense, but a targeted campaign to rub their nose in it, as it were, could just as easily have the effect of rubbing our own noses in it. Maybe that’d be helpful, maybe not. I see where you’re coming from though.
I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more. fwiw. It’s going to be easy to lose some hard won authority by going down the legalize it road, imo. You’re the smarties though.
You mean the marijuana legalization road?
Yes, that.
Huge swaths of the population support it, and I think it’d actually be possible to get a lot of the gun-rights people on board with rejecting the Drug War as well.
I don’t think one would lose as much credibility and prominence as you think. You just have to try and steer the advocacy and conversation toward the practical realities, and away from the machinations of stoner-nation.
Did anyone notice the poll this week? 73% in favor. That’s a pretty big number.
One of my Senators, the former SNL writer and Star, would not engage in a discussion tho …
I don’t have anything against it. I just think it’s very bad PR from a political standpoint. People may support it, that doesn’t mean they think much of those who advocate for it.
It’s a huge number, it’s basically everybody except for the Amish and the Puritans, and then some.
Posts for myself–
Posts to each other—yes, that what the regulars here at FDL seem to do as well other blogs like this one.
It’s too bad that people post simply to echo one another, often devoid of original thought, but, a mob mentality, even here. I hate to say it, but the self-centerdness of so many who post here leaves me to have to point this out. I have seen too much intolerance of others views in here and this is beyond those who come here to incite from the DailyKos. I have seen the FDL regulars bully others in here and it’s a shame it goes on from those whom most likelt see themselves as being the “enlightened ones.”
As much as I like it here at FDL there is still a dangerous mob mentality here which often borders on the bullying/ganging up on those who may have slightly different views on the issues of the day.
I agree, messaging is important. A lot of legalization and decriminalization advocacy rests on advocating for marijuana. I think success is going to come from hammering on the complete failure and idiocy of the prohibition, and the opportunities missed; fewer police handling violent crime, fewer state and federal dollars funding schools, roads, corporate relocation incentives for jobs, etc.
I suspect the overwhelming number of people who oppose marijuana legalization oppose it because of the symbolism they attribute to its users, and as such their advocacy for using it doesn’t debase that perception at all. Appealing to their liberty is pointless, because if nothing else is clear about Americans it’s they don’t mind infringing on other people so long as they already don’t think that person should be doing that thing in the first place. Personal liberty be damned.
The terms of the debate and discussion have to focus on the massive expense, massive militarization of the police, massive unmitigated failure of the existing policy, and a stark display that the laws have only become harsher and more onerous over time, and the aforementioned problems have gotten correspondingly worse.
That said, if you really have 73% of the population behind you, you ought to be preaching to the choir most of the time, and you don’t even need the other 27% to do a damn thing.
I really don’t have a horse in this fight, other than I think the policy is incredibly stupid. I have almost no desire to smoke marijuana, and if I did I wouldn’t care that it was illegal, as my adult psyche is already developmentally able to judge a regulation on its merits, and abide by them as such.
That said, I think it would put a sizable chink in the armor of the incarceration and police state, and that ought to have other far reaching benefits for the country.
This battle is going to have to be won in the long term–short term victories do not seem possible. The House progressives are unwilling to go on point without support from the rest of the Democrats and, while I am unhappy about this, I don’t see any point in attacking them for it. I don’t think it would strengthen our position to attack any Democrat who claims to be liberal. By the same token we need not trust them or support them in a major way. In the long term, I think, conditions have rarely been better for major reforms and perhaps the formation of a new major party in the USA, and I think that is where we need to focus our efforts.
I imagine you already know Obama said he would nominate Michele Leonhart to lead the Drug Enforcement Agency. She enthusiastically supported raiding the homes of extremely sick medical marijuana patients in California.
See ubetchaiam’s seminal diary here.
No I’ll agree with that sentiment.
It doesn’t have to be anything with the firedogs. Tho I do think that someone who pledges to the community like that for money and then immediately turns around and does something else should have to face some form of public official ..
I dunno reprimand?
But yeah, more than retribution what I’m really concerned about is the lack of any path forward. Sitting around and waiting isn’t going to do anything.
That is the method and policy of a minority – total lack of leadership.
and … hopefully they’ll be just that again
I expect to hear President Obama make numerous comments with the “I believe” or “I think” conditions as we heard with health care “reform”. This time it will be along the line of I believe we need to move towards sustainable or “green” energy. But,… then his actions will show just the opposite. How many people only “hear” the “I believe” part of his statements and disregard the actions?
I think Brooksley Born is a prime example showing the deterioration of our society. Instead of listening to what she said over a decade ago, those with “political” and “financial” influence chose to ignore her all for the sake of greed.
Jane, fyi, don’t know if you’d care to use these someplace but I made these “crime scenery” posters using AutoMotivator online and they came out pretty well, re coal mining and MTR — I just used snagged online photos so I can’t credit the photographer (though I think he/she would like them) — still you could use the idea and make your own: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2010/3/30/15213/0996/68#c68
Same group of people are pushing for this bill. What does Mr. Summers job designation have to do with Climate change marketing as I read in other blog post just now instead of bringing accountability to wall street for last couple of year excesses and requesting senate to re-instate Glass Steagall Act. All that they seem to care is draining the last nickel in the middle class pockets through the utility taxes to wall street.
This bill will push our economy into a depression never seen till now because of the utility taxes which will sky-rocket and wall street will take the sky-rocketing profits. Who loses. Middle class literally who might have to shut-down the heater in the middle of the winter to avoid utility taxes.
Now is not the right time for any bills with this super compromised congress and senate. First they need to get the American economy running again bringing back jobs lost during the last two decades and ensure accountability for the last few years excesses.
Has anyone explained that in science, calling something a THEORY represents a high degree of certainty about the correctness of that thing. A THEORY is second only to a LAW.
If the Democrat is, in fact, a liberal, you are right. But if a centrist (or center-right or rightist) Democrat claims to be a liberal, we must attack his/her/its use of that term.
Good article! As long as people keep expecting liberals to deliver social-democrat or socialist policies, they will be sorely dissapointed. Liberals do not belong on the left of any honest political spectrum.
Great piece by Jane Hamsher too! Sometimes you have to laugh not to cry…
Edit: sorry, was meant as a reply to 22.