After a full year of debate and dozens of excuses, the Democratic leadership now stands naked in their opposition to the public option. President Obama, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid all claimed they that wanted one. They are the three most powerful people in Washington and have huge margins in both chambers. It is ridiculous to believe that the public option could not have become law if the leadership really wanted it. Yet, for months, people were lied to so the Democratic leadership could maintain the insane myth that the public option’s death was not their fault, but the fault of some insurmountable obstacle. What this mythic “insurmountable obstacle” actually was has shifted so many times it is hard to keep track.
Broad bipartisanship
First there was the excuse that health care reform must be bipartisan, and that you simply can’t do something so big without broad bipartisan support. We were told the public option must go to get a number Republican votes. That proves clearly wrong.
Olympia Snowe
When hope of broad bipartisanship faded, we were told that the public option must go because Olympia Snowe did not want it–and Snowe was the linchpin to everything. Now that reform has passed without Snowe, this, too is revealed to be a myth.
The “government takeover of health care” attack
We were told the public option would result in Republicans attacking the bill as a “government takeover of health care,” yet when the public option was dropped, the socialist nightmare, scaremongering attacks did not dissipate. If anything, they increased.
Ben Nelson, Joe Lieberman, and 60 votes
After Snowe refused to play along, we were told that the public option had over 50 votes in the Senate, but it was that damn 60-votes-for-cloture hurdle it could not overcome, so we need to sacrifice it for Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson. Of course, not only was no effort made to strongarm these two into standing with their caucus on what was just a procedural vote, but Obama did not even call Lieberman to politely ask him to please support the public option or early Medicare buy-in.
You can’t use Reconciliation
When some people said we should then use reconciliation for the whole bill, the idea was laughed at. We were told the Byrd rule would gut the most important parts of the bill, like the very important new insurance regulations. Of course, now we are using reconciliation and the new insurance regulations in the reconciliation bill were not removed by the Byrd rule.
We no longer have 50 votes in the Senate
Once they decided to use the reconciliation sidecar, we were told, as if by magic, there were no longer 50 votes in the Senate for the public option. The Senate leadership blamed the House, saying it was now the House that no longer had the votes for a public option (even though they passed it before).
We no longer have the votes in the House.
It is hard to know for a fact because right after the Senate blamed the House, the House leadership turned around and blamed the Senate. Steny Hoyer said they did have the votes and claimed it was the Senate’s fault. He claimed Obama did not ask to put a public option in the reconciliation bill because the Senate did not have the votes.
Reconciliation must pass unchanged so it does not go back to the House
When the reconciliation bill was brought to the Senate floor, where any Democrat could have offered a public option amendment to force an up-or-down vote on the public option, a new excuse was found to stop that. We were told the Senate must pass the reconciliation bill unchanged, so it could go straight to the President’s desk without another vote in the House. We were told leadership would whip against any amendments to make health care reform slightly better. This myth, too, withered in the face of reality.
Changing reconciliation will “KILL THE BILL!”
Because of a successful Republican Byrd rule point of order, the reconciliation bill would be force to go back to the House for another vote anyway. At this point, the excuse for not offering a public option amendment got weird. Senators like Michael Bennet (D-CO) took to saying saying it would “kill the bill,” and tried to falsely equate “the bill”–the reconciliation fix, which is mainly a package of minor tax changes that do not take effect for years–with the comprehensive health insurance reform measure already signed into law.
Occam’s razor
I’m sure there were some other excuses that I have forgotten to mention. The important thing is that, in the end, they did use reconciliation. They also could have added the public option to a reconciliation bill that could have passed with a simple majority, and had it not endanger the bulk of the health care reform provision. In the end, all their excuses fade away or became weird nonsense about some possible later promise and not wanting to risk anything.
It is foolish to believe that a President, Senate Majority Leader, and Speaker of the House with historically large majorities couldn’t get a public option–which roughly 65% of the country supported–if they really wanted one. Clearly, if they all really wanted to include a public option, they could have done it using reconciliation. To accept their many different excuses of powerlessness requires one to completely suspend reality.
Occam’s razor teaches us the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Here, the simplest explanation is that, months ago, Obama promised to kill the public option as part of a secret deal with the for-profit hospital lobby, and that for months he lied to the American people about supporting the public option while working behind the scenes to stop it.
So, when exactly does that changing the way Washington works thing start again?




271 Comments

Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About FDL Action
The post I wish I could have written, particularly with the summing-up at the end:
Well put Jon. You, Jane and the rest of the crew did a great job covering this topic over the last year. We didn’t get healthcare for everyone but at least you got these liars on record.
Glad to see this summarized, as many people who didn’t follow the debate from the very beginning need to see it.
Yes, yes and yes!
This post gathers it all together and says it all.
On January 22, 2013. Promise.
To accept their many different excuses of powerlessness requires one to completely suspend reality.
Once you can show that Americans will indeed completely suspend reality,even in the face of the most outrageous lies, and see what they are instructed to see then you have a brand new paradigm for governance and you will use it over and over again. Actually, it’s not brand new but it took Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld to bring it up to date and show everyone in club corporate that it really does work. The more outrageous the lie the better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv7BImVvEyk&feature=player_embedded
I agree with you that President Obama must have promised the for-profit health lobby that he’d help keep a real public option out of the final bill. But I don’t think that’s the simplest explanation.
I know that’s a minor quibble, but I think it has strategy implications, if I’m correct. I believe the simplest explanation is that many of the Senators who answered your whip counts (not just your count but all the others too) that they supported the public option weren’t being straight with you.
After watching how this all progressed, we’re always left with this unanswered question: “Why no public option, why not use reconciliation, since you (House and Senate) have the votes?” I think it must be that they only had the votes for reconciliation if there was no public option in the bill. Regardless of what they were telling you in public.
I think the conclusion has to be that whip counts lead you down the wrong strategy path, unless you have real power to affect the political futures of those being counted. If you had the power they would have had to be honest.
Certainly not under the current administration.
My worst fear is that if a Republican wins the WH in 2012, then 2013 will begin an even greater nightmare than the current one.
Obama is the best Republican President since Teddy Roosevelt. The thing is we need a real Democratic President, not a closet Republican. This is what’s had happened to Mr. Hope – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIfDc8pIJ54
I lay the lack of a public option directly at the feet of Obama. He never wanted it and sabotaged every effort to get it. I have no doubt Reid and Pelosi were following his wishes, they are of the same party after all. Obama owns this. Not that it matters, it’s just another successful job of punching hippies by the Washington establishment.
My goodness.
Jason Rosenbaum hasn’t been by yet to concern troll this diary as he did scrowder’s?
HCAN isn’t getting their money’s worth.
It’s really sad to see all their excuses laid out like this, but thank you for putting this together, Jon. People need to be reminded what this fight has been about: something the President, the Speaker, and the Senate Majority Leader all said they favored but were somehow not able to accomplish despite the evaporation of all their reasons why not.
Obama told the heckler in Iowa today who asked “Why no Public Option?” that “we didn’t have the votes in Congress.” Which is, um, untrue.
Another great read Jon, along with Mz. Hamsher’s outing of the veal pens below. You folks keep me sane and smiling on a daily basis.
Not to take from YOUR thread or any FDL threads, but THIS DIARY IS GOLDEN! I hope all Pups will visit that diary. I find it to be one of the most sweeping and insightful pieces regarding the big and little picture of where this nation is at WRT to the corporate ownership of our political process.
And the present positioning of the veal pen efforts and the WH and the dem’s to SELL this POS HCR bill in a positive light and what that means for our nation is well described in the diary.
Again, sorry to interrupt, but it’s that good of a read, and dovetails in with what you and Mz. Hamsher are saying today about ‘revisionist’ history in the making.
Damn, another fine post getting all the facts and lining them up nicely to connect the dots.
Awesome.
Heh, I predicted a couple days ago we’re all about to see in the coming days/weeks/months ahead why this site is the best on the toobz.
Well, hate to say I told you so….
but I told you so!
Great work Jon, Jane, ALL OF YOU FOLKS AT FDL.
Only place on the toobz that seems to have a grasp on reality it seems sometimes. Bless all of you.
I really, really, dislke mendacity.
Mine too, however, it will put even greater pressure on the whole system to affect the changes necessary to bring it back toward “we the People”, maybe, hopefully. It’s dangerous, though because it could also breakup e USA and send it very quickly into the trash heap of history, like the USSR. Then, what will come of it, who knows? Depends on what the oligarchy can salvage to their own ends.
Alas, the current march with the corporatist Democrats in charge and being driven by the batshit crazy corporate funded Rubes is ultimately toward neo-Feudalism with heavy Fascism parading as Democratic/Capitalist “free markets”. Kinda where we are today, but much more intense. How long that will last probably depends on countervailing powers like China, the Russian Federation and EU.
Dems – don’t call me I’ll call you.
It took me 6 years to convince many people Bush was an evil childlike douche.
It would take me 6 years to convince myself that Obama or the Dems had an iota of credibility. I hope I only have to ponder it for 3 years and not 7 years.
Anyway R’s already had a canned message for their people, so they are going to want to “take back power”.
Am I supposed to be afraid because some radical right have guns…ha. Grow a set. Blue states make the money and the weapons.
I don’t play Charlie Brown for R’s and I don’t play Charlie Brown for D’s.
Occam’s razor application would actually be:
- Obama and the many/most of the Dem’s did not want a PO.
I actually thought we were going to get a shitty PO – that they would try to put a spit shine on. Instead there was none and they are presenting this POS like its solid gold.
Well, well. It turns out that Eric Cantor’s claim of his office being fired upon was a lie. At the very best it is an epic exaggeration. I knew there had to be something ridiculous about the claim because the traditional media would have screamed about it from on high. They would have broken into their regular programming and shouted about it for a full cycle at least. Rush would have stroked out and Beck would have wept. Read the statement from the Richmond police, it says it all.
When they ask for money and votes, here is what I will say:
NOV-2009 my lifelong Dem father hung up his Dem hat in MA
MAR-2010 I as a lifelong Dem hung up my Dem hat in NH
So scram.
I think this is spot on.
And we aren’t gaining influence or changing anything by condemning the sell outs. Venting feels good.
It feels really good to be righteously angry at politicians that caved to those that have more influence than grassroots. That anger doesn’t lead to changing things for the better and it alienates those that know that we’ve been sold out while also sensing that the sell outs did result in a net improvement to the status quo.
FDL whip counts resulted in $$ going to people that didn’t keep their promises. Which was foreseeable, as legislation always results in compromises.
A lot of purebred pups feel that the broken promise poiticians are worse than the ones who never even paid lip service to a public option. I don’t see it that way, the broken promise PCCC’ers at least stood up for some time, unlike the rest of Congress.
We’re not going to vote these people out and get better replacements.
Baltasar Gracian says it best
“The wise man profits more from his enemies than a fool from his friends”
Progressive must understand this saying.
Why do the following people always disappear when the Public Option can be passed
Alan Grayson
Al Franken
Anthony Weiner
Dennis Kucinish
Bernie Sanders
Jay Rockfellar
they talk a super game, but when it comes to time to step up and deliver, they all disappear.
Jane is right, the TEA PARTY leaders may be best friends Progressives have.
“To have a good enemy, choose a friend: He knows where to strike.” Diane De Poitiers
It is time for Progressives to practice the Dark Arts
because Obama and Rahm are
Yes, allowing the theft of 10′s of trillions of dollars really seems to have make them super-bold.
The only “hope” would be that they are using those Trillions to tie the hands of our Dem hero/salvation Obama. Darn it he would do good if only those baddies did not threaten him.
So, now what? I’m sorry, but Progressives are just too nice. We should have been out in the streets. Instead we send petitions that mean nothing to our “elected” representatives. They only understand two things–money ( which we don’t have enough of to compete with the corporate Hydras) and civil unrest. I’d still be drinking from the “colored person” fountain if Civil Rights leaders and their follows had sent nicely worded petitions to the government. We don’t have a democracy anymore. Why behave like we do? We’re the ones who need a set.
all i know is, gods bless Jane Hamsher and the utterly kickass FDL truth squad!!
Part of the blame goes to faux progressive groups like HCAN who just disappeared on the public option in the end, or actively campaigned against it.
That’s what we need so we can hit a lower bottom and the majority of Americans will be forced to realize the status quo is unacceptable. It’s better than being played by Democrats like this which is even more insidious and demoralizing.
I hear more and more of that everyday.
My mother goes to a Senior Center 3 days a week.
You should those old farts talk about this. Funny stuff!
Barack Obama’s idea of changing Washington was his moving into the White House. That was it. Other than that, it’s the same old same old. The only difference being that we never expected anything good out of the Bush administration.
I’m done with the Democrats and Obama. I won’t be fooled again.
I dearly wanted the public option like so many, that have supported National Health, for so many, many years.
However, for one reason, or several reasons, the public option just did not have the necessary public/congressional support. Its that simple.
I can assure you that we were very lucky to get the bill we got, as bad as it is…it could have been even worse.
But it passed, and we have the opportunity to change/strengthen it later if/when our numbers (that support the PO) grow in congress.
I am not sure that will happen this year, but I hope/pray it does.
Remain strong !! We have a health care bill that took a hundred years to become reality !!
Yet another diary I can send out to my less-than-on-top-of-it friends — hopefully before they are completely taken in by the DNC/OFA lies & spin.
Thank you so much.
[Did Marcy lend you a time line? ;-> ]
OFG, maybe you should print up a few copies of this & have your mom pass it around the senior center, or post it on the bulletin board. Those seniors DO vote!
Our poltical elites continue to live and act in a pre-internet age. They think yesterday’s lie can be easily replaced by today’s and tomorrow’s. “Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.” Just keep repeating that. Few will remember; no one will be able to prove the contrary. Our politics is predicated on amnesia, and the ability to speak over and marginalize lone voices. What they don’t get is that on the internet we are not alone. Our voices can’t be stifled. Worse, we can feed their lies right back to them. We can show their own words to the world. We have the pictures and the video. Most Americans won’t remember what we say, or what they say. What they will remember now that they could not remember before is that our leaders lied to them. The whys and wherefores will pass them by, but that Obama and the Democrats lied to them about healthcare that they will retain.
Is it sad that those who stood with us yesterday stand with Obama, Pelosi, and Reid today? No, the truth is that Trumka, Kucinich, Grijalva, Woolsey, and Bennet always stood with them. Better to know this now.
Is it painful to see SEIU demonstrate against us or kos and the veal pen attack us? It shouldn’t be. We are striking a nerve. Their every sneer and protest just give our side a wider audience. They are, despite themselves, spreading our message. As long as we stand with the truth and do not compromise it, we have nothing to defend. They, on the other hand, have to justify their lies, and everytime they do their credibility will be reduced that much more.
The prize for the worst bald-faced lie goes to President Obama today in Iowa City:
Orwell.
I suppose the other simple explanation is that Obama really sucks as a president because he can’t handle it. I tend to think that is not the case however – though its possible all the “expert” they wheel out of bunkers to tell him like it is just sham him.
Then again we should be honest – Glenn Beck is a media political actor – and Obama is an elected political actor (no one person can have a handle on everything – though some have better skill/experience/ability).
I think in the next debates they should say fuck it and break out the lie detector tests. If you want to run the USA step up to the truthiness assholes.
Nice going Jon. It is going to be interesting to see how they sell this scam. I must say that, for a supposedly media savvy crew, these idiots in the WH have made themselves look just what they are, crooks, thieves, liars and whores. Poor leadership and poor PR are going to result in trouble for the Dems this year.
What will happen this year is that I will vote against all Democrats.
You really haven’t been paying attention, have you? Public support was never the problem. This notion that “Hey, Obama got the best bill he could so be happy and bask in his eleventy-dimensional chessmaster glow” is so wrong on so many levels I don’t even want to start. Time will tell just who has fell and who’s been left behind….
Haven’t you noticed? It is changing — for the worse.
You are a 100% correct, Progressive are to Nice,
we think everybody in the world is good.
we think the people we vote for have morals.
a lot of them don’t
Niccolo Machiavelli died in 1527! and said the following
“Any Man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good.” the same can be said in 2010
Damn straight.
Well put. Thanks.
I really wish the response had been, “Bullshit!” Or at least, “Male bovine fecal matter!”
I’ll have to re-read The Prince and see what advice he had for when your “allies” shiv you in the back. Too many Democrats are walking around saying, “I meant to do that. It’s a really good thing.”
are you joiking?
did you just join the rest of us on earth?
Obama made a deal with the for profit Health Care Insurance Industry and pretty much told them he would kill the public option. This deal happen in let say july 2009. (NY times wrote an article about it)
Now Obama and the Dems are just lying
I’d love to see this on the Op-Ed pages of the major newspapers (and even the minor ones).
At one point citizens favored the Public Option by 67%. The level of support for the HCR bill fell away as people realized how unneccesarily compromised it had become. To put it another way-we have been fucked again.
You are correct about their compromises – lies if you prefer.
But the wider audience isn’t being persuaded that there’s a means to get a Congress that won’t cave under pressure. Most of the liberal/progressive etc isn’t saying this ACA HCR is pure enough, they’re celebrating a victory. And calling them names isn’t going to bring them around. Is “veal pen” accurate? Sure. Does using it give you more influence? Only with the purebred pups.
Being right is a good feeling. And FDL has been very good at reporting how HCR has been watered down and sold out to corporate interests. You’re right.
FDL is also alienating those that have the best ability to improve policy. That’s something that needs to be fixed eventually. Post-mortem dissections need to be done, but the loss is so fresh it might be better to let HCR cool off for a time.
Can we come together on “Citizens United”? This seems like the best place to start healing. Work on something that we might win together.
The truth is we didn’t have the vote in the WH.
You won’t. That would piss off their customers — their advertisers including health insurers. You’re the product, remember?
Who are you? Scarlett O’Hara? “I will think about it tomorrah.” Speaking the truth loud and clear in never harmful. You may argue that it is only our perspective and not the truth but it is, nonetheless, important to say. I call it being clear sighted.
Can we come together on “Citizens United”? The name is so ironic, I’m sure Roberts et al. got a laugh out of it.
I’ve a feeling Netroots Nation will be quite interesting this year.
Nice synopsis and timeline.
Perhaps I’m in the minority but I continue think that the Ds want the PO left as a carrot dangled to earn donations. A beacon of promises offered but never realized. I don’t think, with the current administration in office, that they could actually put some variation into law because it has always failed the Chicago economic school test. The little people have to stand on their own two feet because it is in the best interest of those that require low cost wages. The rich and powerful economic titans have to be protected via the taxpayers pockets because it is all that stands between us and socialism. Every significant part of this legislation is about squeezing the public turnip for that last bit of blood. Even where the less affluent are helped to purchase what they cannot afford the solution is to go back to the taxpayer rather than constrain profits.
All the rest of this was about shucking the rubes by pretending to sell a vote they had already sold to a higher bidder with deeper pockets.
What you don’t seem to understand is that they were never on our side. They are never going to improve policy, unless and until the public forces them to. And that public won’t listen to us if we join in their lies and deception. Calling them out won’t sink us. Not calling them out surely will.
you don’t practice the Dark Arts I see?
In every group power is concentrated in the hands of one or two people, (Obama and Rahm) for this is one area in which human nature will never CHANGE. Once you demolish these two leaders the center of gravity is gone, there is nothing to revolve around and everything falls a part
If the Dems in congress think Obama and Rahm can no longer help them, they will flee. It is the nature of People
Obama and Rahm are doing this to the republicans daily, and they are also using this knowledge on progressives.
again Welcome to the Dark Side
When we accept we need to change the way we work – and stop hoping Washington will change for us.
How long we’re collectively willing to stay in denial is entirely up to us.
(p.s. Thanks for such a concise and well-written history.)
That’s Barry Bullsh*t for ya.
And, in the almost beautiful lawyerly way in which he seduces America, he is strictly speaking correct – they didn’t have the votes in Congress. Left unsaid, however, is why they didn’t have those votes – because they didn’t want to have them.
Barry Bullsh*t.
Who took any single payer ideas off the agenda very early on?
Barack Obama
Who used the WH as a stageset for large HC meeting then proceeded to empower Max Baucus in particular to steamroll this HCR in U.S.Senate process?
Barack Obama
Who could not be bothered for weeks or months to define clear or firm support for any PO idea — weak or strong in composition?
Barack Obama
Who greenlighted secret deals with major American for profit healthcare industry groups and umbrella organizations while not being upfront about doing so?
Barack Obama
This POTUS did not want any Single Payer or PO while at same time he was for this mandate and giving big American HC industry interests sweetheart deals. He gamed the process in Congress and on the street to serve where this POTUS wanted this HCR to come out at. He succeeded.
This POTUS and his D Party call this a triumph.Call it a victory. The liars.
It was and is a betrayal. Hopefully this deception and abuse of the American voter will be punished during the next coming national elections. This POTUS and his cohorts in Congress deserve to be pushed back during the coming 2010 election and the 2012 election. Pushed back hard.
The deception here has been very deliberate. The disregard of good long range leadership that was so badly needed to move this reform in the ways and directions so very much needed is worthy of great contempt.
We are told this was a triumph. That is a lie. And the liars who tell these lies deserve to suffer for telling them. Hopefully history will expose these liars for the charlatans they are. Greatness was needed. Was not given.
Thanks JW for your considerable body of work regarding this HCR fraud. This bait and switch that Barack Obama chose to go with rather than what was needed to move American healthcare into mid 21st century.
We were betrayed. Let down. Told to have hope and then given deception.
Dear American People,
We will try to get you some sort of Public Option some time in the future. In the meantime, here is your very own Mandate to Big Insurance. Don’t worry, it is for your own good. Really.
With Love,
DCCC
PS: Plz send $.
Dear Corporate Sponsers,
Enclosed find most recent letter to our small donors. We now believe that we can hold back any real reform for at least 4 more years.
Your Faithful Servant,
The Democratic Party
PS: Plz send $.
great post!
We call it the Barack Obama “HOPE A DOPE!”
And, now Obama is taking his hard sell on the road. What a con job. The WH is delusional if they think they can sell this outrage of a bill. The only thing historic about this administration is the speed with which they lost their base. Individual mandates, with no public option, is the worst of all possible outcomes.
I disagree with this. Grayson, Grijalva, Kucinich and many “veal pen” actors all do want to improve policy. And they see ACA as an improved policy to the status quo, something that purebred pups don’t buy. Holding out last Sunday was not in the best interest of reform in my opinion, and ultimately in the opinion of those PCCC members that you now say “were never on your side”.
So now you want to influence policy with zero allies in Congress? Tell me how this works.
EXACTLY.
Always falling for that “lesser of two evils” trap is just playing right into the hands of the folks that are intent on moving the overton window to the right.
People must remember.
THEY WORK FOR US!!!
It’s not the other way around. Stand up. Be proud of your beliefs, and DEMAND action on them. Don’t ask, DEMAND IT. Do you think the corporations that were successful in getting this bill passed that enriches them further simply went to D leadership and said “Oh, pretty please, would you write a nice corporate profit enhancement bill for us?”
No, they DEMANDED IT.
We have got to STOP accepting crumbs, or crumbs will be all we ever get. And they’ll get smaller.
DEMAND THEY WORK FOR YOU. MAKE THEM EARN YOUR SUPPORT.
Change the world.
here, here
Very good!
Just who are these valuable friends or allies FDL shouldn’t be alienating, wmd1961?
In the annals of the oligarchy, this administration will be honored as having saved the plutocracy from a people united for change.
That was the reason for running candidates that looked superficially different (in either gender or color) from the status quo – to diffuse the energy for real change with harmless, superficial change.
They have already done the job for which they were selected.
Now it’s time for us to do ours.
Sorry, no, I don’t believe they want to improve policy. What they want is to get re-elected. When what their constituents want conflicts with their mission to please Democratic higher-ups and corporate
sponsors, excuse me donors, their fallback position is to obfuscate and try to convince their constituents that what has happened is really in their best interests. A plague on all their houses, I say.Speaking the truth is a good thing.
Condemning our allies for making a compromise that we disagree with is not. Do we want to influence policy? Fine who do we work with? We got commitments from a lot of congresspeople. And they ultimately didn’t keep those commitments. The explanation we’re getting rings true – that this flawed bill is an improvement and blocking it wasn’t something many progressives could do in good conscience.
We will not be getting better congresspeople in 2010 (well maybe we can replace Stupak and Lincoln, but Grayson, Grijalva and many PCCC members are much better than their alternatives). So why are we attacking them? Because it feels good to be pure?
Great post Jon, nice analysis and well put.
OK, I’m pissed (so much so that I started a thread on this on the Seminal for the first time). But my more rational half is saying: how can we make this happen? We’ve definitely got some clout. Obama does respond to pressure (ex: Stupak). How do we make him feel it?
I’d say Grayson and Grijalva to start with. Most of the PCCC block, even though they didn’t listen to purebred pups (being a mongrel I called and asked them to pass the damn bill).
You’re obviously not.
Whose that other loud mouth, possibly dangerous, probably hysterical, likely dangerous crackpot who shouts about the false left/right paradigm and 9/11 truth and all that other crazy shit? Oh yeah, Alex Jones…he has a funny saying “If you’re taking heavy fire it means you’re almost certainly over the target.”
If the healthcare debate taught us nothing else, it is that we have no allies in Congress. Selling out our own priniciples to have some only destroys our credibility and gains us nothing. How did Grayson, Grijalva, and Kucinich work out for us, you, on this bill? They didn’t. Why would you think the next time will be any different? If they had been interested in improving healthcare, they could have done it this time around. They didn’t. Now with no evidence to support you and the just finished debate to refute you, you say they really, really do want to improve healthcare. Then why didn’t they? With allies like these, seriously, who needs enemies?
“So now you want to influence policy with zero allies in Congress? Tell me how this works.”
We have zero allies now. You want to keep pretending these people have any relevence or function as our representatives?
Tell me how that works. Lemme guess, I send them money so they can get re-elected and sell me out again.
Who are you Scarlet O’hara?
The Big Three Cheeses of Corporate Greed: Reid, Pelosi and Obama. Have a slice, your choice. Unfortunately, they all have exactly the same flavor…
These three lying corporate clowns know all along that they never needed more than 51 votes in the Senate to get the Public Option passed, but they did their dishonest song-and-dance about how they needed, gasp, 60 votes in the Senate, and then along came the GOPs and the blue dogs to gum up the works (very conveniently…). Of course, the corporate media played along with them and the progressive Dems were afraid to stand up and point out the bloody obvious facts…
You post at 48 about how we’re cutting our noses to spite our face by calling what should be our allies names.
Then, in every post since then, you’ve been sure to get in the dig of “purebred pups” to once again falsely accuse many of us being too “pure” and not facing reality.
How do you reconcile those two facts?
Thank you, Hugh, for a wise post.
I was thinking about this the other day: that the huge push-back against Jane and all of us is a reflection of our power. Not right now power to get things done, but power to point out their duplicity.
You’re right: the internet accelerates and amplifies our ability to do this.
It works by building a new third Party movement outside of the two Parties and showing Rahm and Obama that we have somewhere else to go. Not doing this earlier is why Rahm calls progressives F__kin Retards. And if you think you can influence what goes on in Congress working with these allies who always fold under pressure, then I think you’re in the group that exemplifies Rahm’s cute remark.
Does Grayson introducing medicare for all mean anything?
They came to a different conclusion than the FDL consensus last Sunday. So they’re now enemies. Look at Kucinich’s statement on his switch, there’s plenty of evidence that he wants better policy. He doesn’t pass the purity test so he’s out.
You’ve got no one to carry water for you in Congress this way. How is this going to work out to affect policy?
Realistically FDL is a subset of the 12% that opposed the damn bill because it didn’t go far enough. I’m a mongrel and I was in that subset myself until Scott Brown’s election.
edit
lol, damned right they vote!!
And you should hear those old farts talking about Obama and the Democrats after they went and voted for them. One guy calls ‘em “The God Damned Corpocrats.”
I’m thinking he used to be a hippy in his young days. *g*
The Spoiler Party.
Thank you, Jon, for keep it real, for keep it simple, and for helping me maintain my sanity!
Occam’s Razor indeed!
We also share our opposition to this bill with MOST OF THE COUNRTY. ‘We’ are not ‘only’ 12%.
Nice try, though.
I’m trying to make a categorical distinction. I detest the Firebagger label, and think that FDL firepups lends itself to purebred and mongrel as a way of separating the “we’ve got to oppose anyone that made a pledge” faction and the minority here that disagrees.
If you’re taking it as a dig I apologize.
ThoughtAudio.com has a decent reading of The Prince free to download.
http://www.thoughtaudio.com/titlelist/TA0039-Prince/index.html
Today, when he was in Iowa, I thought I heard out of the corner of one ear someone shouting out to him about the public option. His basic reply was that Congress just didn’t have the votes.
Mr. President, you lie!
I like the firebagger label. It’s a hell of lot better than the cringe worthy “Coffee Party”, that’s for sure.
I’ll settle for voting these people out. The Republicans don’t stand in the way of a progressive party. The Democrats do.
Well, I guess I was taking it as a dig because we’ve had lots and lots of folks come here and post about how we’re too “pure” to support anybody because nobody would meet out pureness tests, and that we don’t understand reality and should grow up, etc. etc.
I apologize if I took it the wrong way.
A plurality is pleased that ACA passed. Gallup after Sunday’s vote.
Opposition prior to the vote broke out as (caveat – these numbers are ballpark figures and fluctuated over time):
40% opposed to it because if goes too far
12% opposed to it because it doesn’t go far enough
44% in favor
4% undecided
FDL is in the 12% that think the bill didn’t go far enough.
You should. People here are about serious, specific policy, not antics. And we’ve been willing to compromise (PO, Weak Assed PO). There’s no purity test, as with right wing Christianists, or ill-defined policies, as with Tea Baggers. But getting horsefucked by our “allies” in congress — time and time again — forces reasonable people to seek other means of achieving goals than simply giving more money and votes to these people.
Looks like 52% opposed, 44% in favor to me. It makes you look pretty desperate to cling to that distiction, just so you know.
: )
no worries. I think calling myself a mongrel is a little self deprecating umor and don’t mean to be insensitive to “purity” labeling.
I want to see more progress. And I want to work with people that disagree with me about ACA passing to make it happen.
I think that this issue is too raw a wound right now to allow people to start working together again on Health Care.
Those that said Kill it because it isn’t good enough need time to get over their anger at losing.
Another way of looking at that is the 12% represents the BASE. Only those true believers in what the Democratic Party stands for. After all, real healthcare reform has been in their platform for years. Just because they may get 55% of the vote sometimes, their base isn’t that big.
And believe me, 12% is plenty enough to make a huge difference in nearly every election.
Which is why they were so stupid to shit on their base.
Do you know who the Republican base is?? Because it’s NOT the funies or the teabaggers.
It’s the rich. Always has been.
Do you ever see the Republican Party shit on the rich?? What were the first things they did when they took over government? Tax cuts that benefit mainly the rich. Followed by more tax cuts that favor the rich. etc. etc. etc.
wmd, How can you work with people who won’t keep their commitments? I think you can’t. And also, once they’ve done it to you once and you don’t hold them responsible then they’ll do it to you again and again because they know there are no consequences. While it’s true that there are worse members of Congress than the people you mentioned, that’s not a justification for continuing to work with these people. Rather, their actions tell us that we should not support them, but others who have not yet failed their commitments. That doesn’t mean we ought to run people against those who haven’t delivered. There may be many others that it’s far more important to work against. However, there may be still others that it is important to work for and financially support: people like Jonathan Tasini and Andrew Romanoff who show promise as representatives who will no break their commitments to us.
Anyway, the advice you’re giving is the advice parents often give to abused spouses in bad marriages. You can’t deny that the alliance of progressives who want enhanced Medicare for All, really effective financial reform, jobs for all Americans who want to work, effective action against climate change, and the the rest, has been a bad one for us progressives. We need a divorce from a Party that is not delivering either for us or the American people.
Very much inline with my beliefs, interesting to see them all lined up by someone else!
*G*
Well if the abortion issues in HCR are any indication, you might not want to get used to using the same water fountain as everyone else. I’m preparing to lose my right to work in the fight over jobs. After all, if women didn’t work, our unemployment numbers would be fantastic and the Catholics and evangelicals want us home taking care of a bunch of kids anyway. I won’t worry, though, because I’m sure they’ll fix it later.
MoveOn. Most all groups aside from ActBlue.
OFA got folded into the DNC fast, post election, that killed THAT loosely confederated group.
All usurped by the system.
I am sorely disappointed but it was ever thus. It’s been almost a hundred years in the making, so I am happy to get anything at all. The key issue here, though, is that something did finally pass, the next time it will be easier, and someday we’ll have Medicare for all, it’s inevitable if we believe it is. Now is not the time to throw in the towel. Let’s get the most liberal people possible elected, 99 percent of whom will be Democrats now and forevermore let’s face it, and then push them in the right direction as hard as we can. It’s no good to climb into a shell and give up now, that will only result in the most conservative people possible getting elected, which would be far worse. I hope that’s not what you guys really want. Or is it?
44% + 12% wanted reform of some sort. That’s a big majority in favor of reform.
The PCCC congresspeople are in the 12% block. And they saw that the 44% block wasn’t going to give them what they wanted, so they compromised and got some reform of health care policies – they see it as an improvement rather than no change at all.
And after ACA passed 49% are pleased that it passed, 40% aren’t, and 11% have no opinion.
Sorry, but this does not have the ring of truth to it. There were lots of Dems who spoke for the PO and lots who did not want it. I am not at all sure there were ever enough votes to make it pass whether it was 60 or 51 or in the House. The 60 vote thing also needs to be debunked because everyone or nearly everyone believed you had to have the 60 votes. I am still not sure what the truth is about that. Some authority needs to tell us about that. Not just your opinion. And as I said, it is not altogether clear we ever had the votes to begin with. And I still won’t believe Obama gave up anything he could have won. Doesn’t make any sense at all. Go vote for the repugs and see what you get then. Btw, you can probably name the other dems in the senate who would not have voted for the PO.
I think a credible threat of “divorce” by progressive “purists” would have to put the fear of god into the Dem PTB wouldn’t it? I guess the key is credible.
Well they are a lot more on our side than the George Bushes of the world.
Those that supported it need to understand that health care is THE issue for us “lefties.” Always has been. And now, thanks to this bill effectively ending hopes of any real reform in the future (by real reform I mean taking the totally unnecessary, wasteful, and immoral for profit insurance companies out of the loop), it always will be THE issue.
The anger over being lied to and betrayed over THE ISSUE is not likely to be gotten over in a short time. Instead, now that real reform is impossible with either of these two parties, a lot of us are going to look elsewhere to get done what needs to be done.
And that’s making health care a RIGHT and not a privelage.
“The only thing historic about this administration is the speed with which they lost their base.” “lost”? How about “RAN AWAY FROM”, “ABANDONED”, “ABUSED”, “CUT THE LEGS OUT FROM UNDER”, “EXPLOITED”, “CRIPPLED”?
It’s been pointed out repeatedly in the past week that those are NOT either liberals NOR progressives. Even today, WillyLoman has a diary, Mz. Hamsher has the ‘Veal Pen Post’, Jon has this post, that help describe what it is I’m trying to share with you.
Those ain’t liberals, nor progressives.
“And believe me, 12% is plenty enough to make a huge difference in nearly every election.”
Not just that, but around 25% of the country identifies themselves as dems, 25% reps, and the rest independents. So Obama and these piss poor congress dems have alienated half of ALL dems. Nice try trying to minimize ‘firebaggers’ wmd, as if we’re a ‘fringe’. Who’s paying you?
: )
(good luck in November, btw)
You work to stiffen their spines.
The PCCC block did get a (weak) public option out of the house. Reconciliation could have put it back in… and the vote counting calculus (plus likely AHIP deal making with non progressive Democratic leadership) led them to drop it to allow some improvement to the status quo.
We lost. They lost as well.
Clear as a bell, MaryMc . . . clear as The Liberty Bell.
<plonk>
I’m an independent and I won’t respond to anyone that makes baseless attacks.
I guess when your petulant rants result in President Palin, you’ll find out how much you need friends or enemies.
*G*
Like This!
*G*
They have no spines, man.
Pearl clutch away, [Edited by Moderator. No name calling].
This is not a flawed bill, it is a complete sellout for campaign contributions.
The “progressives” did not cave because they didn’t think they could vote against it in good conscience, they cave because of WH pressure.
Sorry, mod.
Yeah, and this is the reason the dems may get crushed at the polls. The only move Obama may have (failing to gather any support here) is to move to the center away from the progressives and try to get some of the independent vote. In a strange way, if he stayed too far on the left he and his friends might lose even more votes.The liberals are not exactly popular and they do not hang out with signs like those teabaggers. I guess us proud progressives are ok with losing our whipping boy? We like being on the outside looking in. Let’s see the last time the libs had real power was with LBJ. And we shit canned him and his replacement too.
I was just chatting over at david minzer’s fine diary about the neoliberal pre-privatization aspect — the huge chunks of public property (biologics IP) that were given away. At least they made the oligarchs pay something for the airports. Well, I suppose you could count the political advertising as a benefit to the Democratic party. That should really be of comfort to cancer and arthritis patients and others with chronic illness when they can’t afford their medications.
I am not your we. The most important thing now is to remember that these were lies, not compromises. “I said to myself, ‘I shall forget this, we shall all forget it; but it will be there. What I have seen is not an illusion. It is the truth….’ For one moment I knew that I had seen our true need; and I was afraid that I should forget it and that I should go about framing arguments and agitations and starting schemes of education, when the need was deeper than education. And I became filled with one idea, that I must not forget what I had seen….” — John Jay Chapman, “Coatesville”. The truth is I saw and heard lies. I shall not forget.
I don’t *want* to “heal* with you. I don’t want to be your “ally” natural or otherwise. The HCR issue is sufficient to justify a divorce between the so-called “veal pen” universe including on-the-street advocates of the HCR disaster enacted by the Democrats and populist reform-minded people such as are found here. “We” don’t have to have a “big tent” especially when I am not actually invited inside, myself, though I am expected to support it and pay for it. If you and those like you feel alienated by the people here, well, then, good – that means we here are on the right track.
There will be a version of history that has the first African-American Preznit, the first Female speaker of the house and the republic destroyed by corporate greed and lobbyists (same thing, really).
Corporate America did not want this bill as advertised by the O-Rhama administration, it wanted the kind that looked all hopey-changey, but could fool the masses with enough advertising and propaganda. It’s not August after all, why not start a new campaign.
Obama is the second empty suit in the Oval Office, and he’s somewhat smarter than the previous one. He does not seem to show that he cares much more than the past Preznit about issues that are related to the Constitution or have the balls to stand up to the screaming Tea-Baggers about something like having a trial in New York.
I hope the fucker loses in 2012 it’s no more than he deserves for empty words, unless the republicans run Palin or some other Media-sensationalized Moran.
It is not the responsibility of people here to work to elect any official who does not represent us, and that includes any Democratic official regardless of Republican opponent. It is not our job to elect Democrats. It is our job to gain real representation for ourself in the political system in DC if that is what we seek. YOUR concern is the Democratic/Republican fight. Not mine. You elect Democrats, I’ll look elsewhere because Democrats don’t represent me.
Actually I think you will find Obama either made a deal with the hospitals or recognized the public option could be only afforded with Medicare/Medicaid hospital and physician pay out levels. However increased numbers of patients with those low rates would bankrupt the current provider system. That’s why just pinning the PO onto the existing bill was a no go.
Indirectly of course the the deal was to continue to sustain a needless for profit insurance industry and the pharmaceutical industry looters.
Did they lie? Yes. Cruelly especially for the sincere indefatigable FDL workers..
I am not certain how soon in the process they discovered they could not have employer based private insurance alongside an increased Medicare pool. But it was in my view fated the day they told the Single payer advocates to take a hike.
The bill has established the principle of a government role in serving health care for all as a human right.
Personally I think this model will fail and eventually both employers and private insurance will want out. Then we get the logical an only workable model.
I am not anger at losing, I am angry at being lied to.
If we would have lost the vote, fine, that’s the way it goes.
But everyone claiming to be for it, yet refusing to put it to the vote is BS.
I don’t know. First, he didn’t introduce enhanced Medicare for Al;, he introduced a Medicare buy-in at cost, which is far from the same thing. Second, He hasn’t tried to introduce that into the reconciliation sidecar legislation, has he? That was the perfect opportunity to get a public program expanded by majority vote. But he didn’t work for that. He just said Yes, Ma’am to Pelosi and moved on. What he did was welcome, but so far it just seems to be more kabuki, like Michael Bennet’s support for the PO. I’m all for contributing to Grayson’s campaign when he delivers something. Until then, I’m kind of immune to his talk. Talk is cheap!
The Republican base isn’t just the rich. The rich are who the Republican party rewards policy wise, but the people that turn out and vote in Republican primaries are also fundies and teabaggers. Fundies in particular do a lot of GOTV work for Republicans.
12% can make a difference in primary elections if there are decent candidates.
12% can act as spoilers in general elections.
FDL is doing substantial good in promoting primary challenges to blue dogs. I would agree that primaries that could put a better progressive in office are worth doing. Primaries that replace a progressive with an unknown are a bit more problematic, but that’s not being promoted (Tamyra D’Ippollito is a good example).
How does acting as spoilers in general elections help get good policy passed?
Right, but that percentage will griow far larger when people experience this awful “reform.”
Very simple.
Right now the WH has stated the left doesn’t mater, they have no where else to go. By acting as spoilers, they could not take our vote for granted and would have to listen to us.
How does voting for democrats get good policy passed?
Nah!!!!! We’ve got to get right to work to repeal the mandate, and add Medicare expansion.
You bet yer sweet bippy.
And your point???? I guess it is better to lose and let 32 million wait another generation??
I’m going to cheat on my wife, ignore the vows I made to her, and lie to her like crazy. And then when she finds out, I’ll say “Don’t be such a purist! I’m better than a lot of other husbands out there. Some of them beat their wives! You won’t find a better replacement!”
I wonder how that would go over?
How does voting for candidates and a party who have a demonstrated, clear history of not just not representing us but lying to us for votes and money and then walking all over us openly get good policy passed?
I repeat: it is not my job to elect your candidate because you like the candidate and what s/he has done, or because you continue to believe in his/her political party. It is my job to seek representation for myself and what I believe in if that is what I seek. If your candidate does not represent me, then there is no reason I should feel guilt over opposing your candidate. You continue to write here as if you and the people here, largely, are a “we”. That is not the case. You like what just got done to the public in the form of the public policy disaster referred to as “health care reform”. We, largely, do not. It is not our job to continue to support candidates and a party who actively hurt us and take our support for granted.
What is it about this very basic conclusion of representative democracy that you do not grasp? I am supposed to use the process to support my ends and interests (just like the corporations that paid off your party’s highest officials, and your “progressives”, too) not your ends and interests at great cost to me.
It’s 32 billion, actually.
Thirty-two million people have not been “saved” by the law now created. They have been required by law to buy a health insurance product from an unaccountable, for-profit private company largely on that company’s terms, a product that many or most of them probably can’t afford.
This new law has saved *nobody*.
You withhold your vote for the dems, and you tell them you are.,
The closer to the election, the more they worry.
Does that translate into changed policy?
Don’t know, hasn’t been done yet on a mass scale.
If it WAS tried, would you support the effort, and withhold your vote? Tell your elected offals you were staying home? Just to juke them a bit and see how they react policy? Would you tie your vote to a policy position they HAVE to implement before the election?
I got lots of questions, huh . . .*G*
Would ya?
Damn, Seymour Friendly, you seriously kick ass. Well said!
: )
Heh, I love a good question!! *G*
By acting as spoilers we get a congress and executive that doesn’t even pretend to want good policy. So act as a spoiler and guarantee you don’t get listened to.
And the lesson learned by Democrats isn’t give the base what it wants, they learn that the country is further to the right than thought. At least that’s been the history since Reagan.
I’d like to help with both.
I think team building on Citizen’s United is a way to rebuild alliances.
Act as a spoiler and don’t get listened to. Vote for the GOP and don’t get listened to. Vote for the Dems and don’t get listened to.
What am I missing?
Stop reflecting the Administration’s BS talking points.
This bill was not 100 years in the making it has nothing in common with any bills introduced in the past, except Clinton’s POS in the early ’90s and Bob Dole’s proposed hcr legislation. It’s not a Democratic bill, and it was made this summer by Baucus and the insurance industry with an assist from Pharma.
As far as getting anything at all, you got crumbs and you gave away a shitload of economic and political power to the insurance industry by providing them with Government subsidies, the profit from which they will use to defend themselves against progress toward Medicare for All. The crumbs you got could have been gotten in legislation of more limited scope that would have had no mandate and no giveaways to the insurance companies.
As for things being easier next time, that will only be so because we’ve built a strong single-payer movement. But unless we do it will be harder, because the insurance industry will have even more money to fight us off. With Citizens United allowing unlimited contributions from corps to political campaigns, you and we are well and truly shafted unless we can immediately find a way to nullify that Supreme Court decision.
Good policy is still not passed. That’s the problem, all this ‘lesson learned’ crap is just conversation if that doesn’t change. And hey, we elected majorities in both houses, and the WH, and still we have no ‘good policy’. Instead we have this pos insurance bailout atrocity with more of the same on the way.
Fuck em.
I think the analogy isn’t that good.
I think this is better:
My boss told me I’m going to get a promotion, I promise I’ll buy you a new car. Oops, I’ve been laid off instead. We better not buy the new car, we can’t afford it on unemployment. I’m looking for new work though and want you to have decent transportation, once I get a chance we’ll do that.
It feels like freedom to tell the truth as one sees it.
*standing on chair clapping*
Thanks for this post Jon… what is the saying, if we don’t know how we got here, we’ll wind up in the same place again?
I have been visualizing some sort of board game graphic of the PO shell game… it’s over here!, no wait… it’s over there! Ooops… not there at all!
I also plan to make a video of all the quotes from all the Dems who “support the pulic option”… which became my most hated phrase in the entire time of this long, overly drawn out process.
Would you PLEASE consider asking yerself;
“Hmmm, why, just WHY did every dem, and so called progressive elected candidate in the House, Senate and WH reverse their positions on real health care reform and at the end couldn’t, ‘in good conscience’ block the BAD HCR?”
Each and every one of them who signed reversed themselves on signed pieces of paper that were published in the MSM and blogosphere, galore . . . others reversed on what their STATED positions were in support of real reform, that’s captured on audio and video, that you’ve seen here at FDL, if not elsewhere, in the past year.
Could you please ask yourself that question, honestly, and get back to us?
Thanks! *G*
You’ve got it OFG. Now it’s about destroying the Democratic Party and getting a real people’s party.
I’m just curious. Is there a democrat you wouldn’t support if they were running against a republican? What policies would the democrats support that would lose your vote?
I am sorry we were mean to Jonathan Gruber and Rahm Emanuel and that Pollack guy. What can we do to make it up. Please forgive us. We were led astray by vicious bloggers who are not real people.
That’s about right.
I think you left out vote for third party and don’t get listened to although that may fit the spoiler option (not voting/third party are about the same).
Get elected seems like the only way to be sure to be listened to… but you’d have all those constituents that belong to different factions wanting you to listen to them too.
As ususal, not exactly true. They have to buy insurance but if they make under 88k year they get a tax credit. Some may pay nothing at all. And they will buy it from an exchange where there will be some competition. ( you know the profit motive?) And you know what else, if we keep our hats and brains on, we can probably improve on that in the coming years. That is unless we let Palin, the teabaggers and the repugs take it all away. BTW what have you got against profit???
My personal theory for the REAL reason the PO died an indigent death is that, aside from all the MIC PhIC $$ thrown at congress and the WH, is that
Obama plans to gut SS and Medicare…. so kind of hard to expand a program that you know you are going to gut, you know?
Doesn’t look so good…
lmao!
: )
“Obama plans to gut SS and Medicare…. so kind of hard to expand a program that you know you are going to gut, you know?”
Agree.
Huh?
I don’t support Democrats across the board. I’d be happy to see Baron Hill voted out and the execrable Mike Sodrel back in. Not too much difference if you ask me.
I’ve run third party campaigns in the past. I really dislike the lack of choice our voting and electoral systems give us.
Hugh, Wonderful post.
Crap! The only way you can stiffen their spines is to show them that they’re going down if they don’t keep their commitments. The best thing that could happen now is for Lynne Wolsey, Donna Edwards, and a few other visible progressives like to get beat. It would be great if Debbie Wasserman-Schultz got beat too. That’d shake up a few people.
And you are ok letting 200,000 Americans die before this HCR kicks in?
It is very hard to try to take the moral high ground defending this bill.
Profit at the expense of somebody’s health. That is just sick!
More like Raul Grijalva, Dennis Kucinich… and bloggers like Digby and Maha.
Alienating people like this isn’t to FDL’s credit.
Hugh, WONDERFUL post!
Ooh, scary.
No question about it–I would be oblivious to the kabuki theater performed by Obama et al. on this subject this past year if not for FDL and Greenwald.
All Democrats who call themselves progressives need to be aware of these facts. Should Obama ever hold a press Q&A again, he should be made to explain himself. (Fat chance I know, given our press corps.)
Is he choking the rate of change out of prudence as a means of governing for the long haul, or is he simply just another deceitful corporatist? The burden of proof is on him to prove it’s the former and not the latter. Anything less than an up or down vote on Medicare-buy-in before the end of 2011 will fall short, and preclude my support in 2012. I won’t forget this crap no matter what else he might do between now and then.
And all my money and support now only goes to the most outspoken progressives–none of it to party central. We’ll see what November brings.
Holding them accountable isn’t a good thing? Pointing out the lies and the falsehoods is not to FDL’s credit? Progressive unity at all costs regardless of the facts?
Hugh’s remarks won’t result in President Palin, but Obama’s sell-outs to the corporations might. If you’re really worried about Sarah, then quit supporting these sell-outs and get the Dems to represent their historic working class constituencies. The thing about Sarah is that she has some populist appeal. God knows why; but it’s true that people feel she’s one of them. The more Obama sells out to the corps, however, the more people view him as an elitist who doesn’t care about them, and who is not one of them. That’s what’s dangerous about all this.
Look, if you’re going to try that same old tired myth about how we have only two options, then you’re not likely to get anywhere.
If you can’t see what’s happened over the last 30 years, then I can’t somehow convince you of something you didn’t witness. But what happened was the overton window began moving further and further to the right.
And now we find ourselves where the Republicans have gone off the reservation, batshit crazy, and the Democrats have moved into what used to be considered a moderate-conservative REpublican.
If you’re happy with our two party system offering only those two choices, batshit crazy or moderate-conservative Republican, then you’ll continue to support them by limiting your own choices to the two they offer.
Me, I’m not limiting my choices any more. I’m not saying I have an answer as to how to get done what needs done, but I do know what the answer is NOT. And it’s NOT doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
There is nothing wrong, whatsoever with our policy beliefs. If you buy into that myth too (that we are a center-right country), then once again you’re playing right into the hands of those pulling most of the strings. Because on policy issues, poll after poll shows support for “our side” on the issues. Case in point was the public option, where it always polled in the majority, and sometimes by a 2-1 margin.
So the Democrats not adding in the public option wasn’t because it was some policy only favored by us “purists” and therefore politically unattainable. Passing policy that is hugely popular should be easy. No, the Democrats not passing something that goes AGAINST the wishes of the majority shows who they have calling the shots. It provided a well lit stage for all to see exactly who the Democrats are working for. And it ain’t us.
So if we have to look elsewhere to get done what needs done, then we will. And if we have to relabel ourselves in order to “sell us” then we
may have to figure out how to do that too. None of that will be easy in an environment where the puppett masters control most of the rules, but to do nothing or keep repeating the same past mistakes just aren’t options, IMO. We owe it to our ancestors to do better. Hell, we owe it to ourselves.
Rahm is that you?
Digby routinely links to Dday here. As recently as yesterday afternoon:
Plus Kuch is contrite and returning money, and on and on.
That addresses the top half of your “alienation” argument.
As for the rest of it, who exactly is the “alien” here? Those who cannot stand by their principles, or those who can?
Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to.
The public option or Medicare buy in was a no go from the beginning for the reason that the provider fees would have to have been at something like current Medicare rates for it to be affordable with current funding sources. To add a large pool of patients at those low rates would have bankrupted hospitals and driven doctors out. I don’t know when Obama first realized this but once he did he did continue to lie, likely to the Congress.
It has been cruel especially to th Fire pup contingent.
The deal was really the determination to go with employer based private insurance in the mix and support the pharmaceutical industry looters.
I don’t know if they knew it but it was fated the day they threw out single payer which could have worked but I believe with more increase in taxes.
There was no way single payer would have passed.
So in my view it’s been fated from the beginning. Once the Congress began to learn this they began to shift.
The law does establish the principle of government responsibility to provide for the care of all. That’s why the right has been so frenetic.
By letting the Dems know that the next time they win a general election, they better deliver what they promised or they’ll lose the next one?
This Fall we need to see to it that blue dogs, progressives get good scares, and that both are made to realize that they can’t win without us, so that they had better negotiate with us in good faith, if they want to stay in office.
“No question about it–I would be oblivious to the kabuki theater performed by Obama et al. on this subject this past year if not for FDL and Greenwald.”
Me too, come to think of it.
*thank you*
Huh???? please explain.
What 32 million? You believe too much of what you read. When is CBO ever right in their 10 year forecasts. There won’t be more than 17 million of them insured by 2019, and there will then be 37 million uninsured. And those who are insured won’t be getting care because the companies will still be screwing them.
Thanks, me too.
I’m in favor of pointing out that they caved.
I disagree that they can’t be worked with to enact better policy going forward. They responded to different interest groups. FDL asked them to vote no without a public option. They agreed with this in the summer. Since then they’ve changed their vote – due to other interest groups and their own conscience saying ACA is better than no progress. The political environment in March 2010 isn’t the same as the environment in July 2009. Circumstances changed and votes did as well.
Did corporate interests get the upper hand? yes and that sucks. Did Obama pander to corporate interests? It certainly looks that way and I’m glad that FDL has been uncovering the slime.
How does improved policy happen going forward? FDL seems to think PCCC isn’t going to help. So there won’t be anyone in Congress to carry FDL water.
Where will FDL act to affect policy?
Citizen’s United seems to me to be the natural place to start. The amount of corporate influence it enables is something I certainly oppose.
Doesn’t look much different than Obama selling the American people to for-profit monopolies with minimal regulation in exchange for campaign cash, does it?
BTW, before anyone asks, yes I intended ancestors there.
IMO a whole lot of folks have fought and died to make this country what it is today. They fought for rights that we now take for granted and see slowly slipping away.
So, yes, ancestors was intentional. We owe them better for all they sacrificed. They didn’t fight and die for us to end up a fascist nation, IMO. Just wanted to be clear that I didn’t mix up words there.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
And I wish I saw a way to fix it. I think that it is more likely that the PCCC spelunkers will step up than any other group we’ll see in this or the next Congress.
It has. But during that time the country was moving to the right, because the economics were getting better. Now they’re getting worse and the Republicans offer no solutions, so if the Dems move to the right that will create a big opening to the left, and that will eventually spawn the Democratic Party’s successor. Remember, you cannot out right-wing the Republicans. They will always be to the right of you. So, if you move to far the right, all you do is free the left to go elsewhere. That’s what’s happening now.
Also, left-right is not all there is to this. There’s also globalist-nationalist, and Corporatist-populist to consider. The Democrats are moving to the right, moving toward the corporatist, and moving toward the globalist. That’s going to open up a spot for a nationalist, leftist, and populist Party occupying the position that used to be the Democratic one. Politics abhors a power vacuum, and the Democrats have been creating one.
That is how I see it too.
wmd1961, I think that if alliances are to be rebuilt, those who broke the alliance commitments need to prove that they’re trustworthy. Oh, sure we can work in parallel for the same goals, like repealing the mandate and getting around Citizens United, but I don’t think I can work together with OFA, DFA, Move-on etc. until they prove that they will stick with their commitments. Until then, I’ll be looking to form and/or support other organizations that ain’t in the veal pen.
Yay!
Just to be clear about it – Barack Obama is a Corporatist.
Constitutionalist/Fascist
Sorry. I don’t work for Obama. He’s not my boss. I’m one of many millions who are his boss. He works for me and broke his commitments to me as did progressives in Congress who decided that loyalty to him was more important than loyalty to me. As one of their millions of bosses I’m going to do all I can to fire these faithless and untrustworthy employees.
I’m less sanguine about a new party getting elected. I hope I’m wrong.
How many nationalist, leftist populists are there? And where are they – are there enough in individual districts?
Part of why I’ve been saying state legislature elections are important this year is the district boundary setting duties state legislatures have after the Census. Lower cost races that have possible disproportionate impact on 2012-2020 electoral politics.
I know in my runs for Indiana State Assembly the total spent for all three general election candidates was under $75,000 combined (my independent campaign in 1994 raised and spent about $10K, the incumbent Democrat raised about $50K, and the token Republican raised about $25K).
A lot when that profit is made off my health care. I want to eliminate all profit in the health insurance industry. Every other civilized country has already done that. Why not the United States?
It wasn’t to their credit to alienate FDL.
You nailed it. Though I find old Occam very tired. They didn’t want it,some at all. All they want is to maintain the status quo-especially the part about keeping their excellent job benefits.
But some did. Some actually get in public office to make things better. And until they are willing to sacrifice-they will achieve nothing. Just like war-it’s a numbers and will game. They had the numbers-none of them had the will.
Move On in particular did what its constituents asked. They polled early. And acted on that. They polled again after Scott Brown and they got a different answer, which they acted upon.
About this term Firebaggers, I was thinking it might not be so bad, if that’s what they want to call us. Think:”Great Balls of Fire.” Scorch those Dems a liitle bit. They’ve got it coming. Took our money and our time then screwed us over and called us “fuking retards.”
For profit health care works as well as a for profit military and we are blindly building a business model around that as well. When money is the guiding factor then the best outcome comes from charging the most possible while delivering the least that one can get away with providing.
I’m in favor of pointing out that they
caved.lied.I disagree that they can’t be
workedbribed with to enact better policy going forward. They responded to differentinterest groupscorporate bribes. FDL asked them to vote no without a public option. They agreed with this in the summer. Since then they’ve changed their vote – due to otherinterest groupsbribes and their ownconsciencelack of spines saying ACA is better than no progress. Thepolitical environmentVeal Pen in March 2010 isn’t the same as theenvironmentVeal Pen in July 2009.Circumstances changedRahmobama threatened and votes did as well.Did corporate
interestsbribes get the upper hand? yes and that sucks. Did Obamapandercut back room deals with corporate interests? It certainly looks that way and I’m glad that FDL has been uncovering the slime.How does improved policy happen going forward? FDL seems to think PCCC isn’t going to help. So there won’t be anyone in Congress to carry FDL water. Just like they haven’t in the past
Their Fixed! your welcome. Go ahead and call a spade a spade. It actually helps to create a more rational arguement.
Couldn’t hospitals have finally learned to become more efficient? And as for Doctors, where would they go? To Canada? To Australia? To new Zealand? To the UK? To France? Is the Government incapable of seeing to it that many more Doctors are trained to lift supply? Give me a break. Medicare for All would have worked fine. As for having no chance to pass, that certainly was the case after Obama decided to torpedo, but no could have predicted what the fate of Medicare for All would have been had he supported it. All the polling evidence indicates that it would have done far better than the PO in popular support.
Thanks.
Democratic voters have mistakenly believed that Obama and Democrats want public health care. The DLC-controlled Democratic party gives lip service to public health care & all populist issues.
If the Bush years taught us nothing else, it’s that anyone can sell anything to Americans, if you’re stolid and relentless in your sales pitch & tactics. It’s not that Bush and Rove were geniuses and knew something that nobody else knew; Bush and Rove were just more ruthless (clumsy & careless many political graybeards would say) in doing what politicians and the parties had gone to great lengths to hide from Americans.
Obama didn’t get to be the first black president, vanquish the Clinton machine to become the Democratic Party’s nominee, and the oldest, most experienced politicians in our nation’s history (including the Rove machine) by not having mastered these skills. Nor do Democratic politicians (more incumbents than ever, in office longer) not know how to do it. How do you think Democrats managed to keep the impeachment of Bush and Cheney off the table & have us still reelecting them, not marching on Washington with torches and pitchforks?
Obama and Democrats know how to do it — They don’t want to do it.
The trick for them has been to keep the many different populist groups believing that they really do support our issues, but that they’re merely inept. And to get us to keep voting for them in spite of their failure to deliver on any of our alleged shared objectives.
Yeh, Rahm, did you drop by to call us effing rtrds, again?
Uh, in your analogy, the guy promising the car would have to have been telling his boss to fire him for the last 6 months so he wouldn’t have to buy the car.
As an aside, is there any possible Republican policy Obama backs that you wouldn’t lay down for? For instance, wanting to cut SS benefits to people who have been paying into the system for decades rather than raise the cap? That’s fine, too? Or haven’t you got the talking points from the WH to answer that yet?
Very nice.
Scott Brown didn’t get elected after 6 months of tea party shenanagins.
July 2009 and March 2010 were the same politically except for the damned corporations making payoffs that were bigger than FDL/ActBlue.
And this calling a spade a spade advances progressive change… remind me again how this gets a public option passed?
Well, It’s official. After being a register Democrat and political activist for over 35 years… I am now a member of the Green Party. – And I’m not even looking back.
Why you think I support Obama policies is a mystery.
I’m just saying that getting good policy takes more than whining about being sold out.
The cap needs to rise. Taxes on those earning more than 250,000, 500,000, 1M, and 5M should be progressively steeper – 40%, 50%, 70% and 85% seem about right, but I’d need to have good actuarial models to be sure.
By not voting into power democrats like Anthony Weiner who come from very progressive districts yet don’t demand a public option when it counts.
Fraid it’s out there for better or worse. Googling firebagger is good for shits and giggles ;~p
Given how this legislation is created to do a lot of bad things over time that 44 % that approve today are the best numbers they are likely to get out of this when the downside effects kick in. When the majority are displeased immediately after the vote then there should be a few smart people shaking in their booties. This was supposed to be the magic bullet that made for easy sailing into the next election cycle.
But polling after it passed shows 49% approve, 11% don’t care and 40% disapprove. A majority of Democrats and plurality of independents like it now that it has passed.
The bad things don’t happen until 2014. Good things start happening sooner.
That too. But, unfortunately, that dichotomy, and Obama’s move toward authoritarianism (I prefer that term) probably won’t swing elections to a new Party.
I don’t see any whining here. What you are reading is a large group of “fucking retards” finally realizing that the Democrats don’t represent our interests anymore. And many of us won’t be making telephone calls, registering voters, donating money, doing all the grunt work that we are known for doing…oh, or voting for them….anymore. The bond is broken.
I’m not sanguine about it either. It’s already late for 2010. On how many, I think there are many nationalist, populist people out there. Maybe they’re even a majority. Whether a left Party can get them depends on what it can offer them, and whether it delivers. Remember, the Democrats used to be a nationalist, leftist, populist Party. So, we know that such a Party can become the majority party.
And when Obama, naturally, doesn’t do that and instead does what the Republicans want to do (cut benefits)…even though, of course, they will oppose it and score political points (again!)….will you and/or the other Obamabots be on here calling us purists for opposing it? Will you oppose it? How will you oppose it?
Move-on left single-payer without polling on the question And, in any case, this is one constituent they left behind. Also, Move-on has really stunk on jobs and the stimulus. So, I’m looking to move-on from Move-on.
Wrong. Your thinking is just like that of the Progressive Caucus [sic] and the 40+ senators who recently signed on for a public option and then bailed.
Just as we rightly criticize them for failing to walk when Rahm and the other leadership told them there’d be no PO, we must walk when these politicians come up for re-election. Yes, there will be a bad term or two with the really bad guys winning, but you will never get Congresscritters to heed your concerns if you always vote for them after they betray you time after time. This is the lesson of the Massachusetts special Senate election: You must dump the bad Demoncrats if you ever hope to get good ones down the line.
The Repugs and the Christian Right learned long ago that you must plan long-term for ascendancy. We on the left continue to ignore those lessons. So, those Morans are smarter than we are, when it comes to Street Smarts.
My guess is, you’re a go-along guy, that’s your call. Where’s it gotten us? I agree with Alanhawaii. This was a rare opportunity for Dems. to return Gov’t policy decisions to the electorate, an opportunity we’re not likely to see for another 30 years. The Dems squandered that once-in-thirty-year opportunity and are now about to blow financial regulation as well.
Bottom line, their agenda is different from the people who elected them. They’re well aware of this, that’s why they didn’t campaign on their agenda & it’s why they repeatedly, deliberately lied to us for the last nine months. I can’t imagine why you’d still want to go along to get along.
I gave money to Grayson too, and now he means nothing to me (but when he was something I read Grayson’s “Public Option Act” or “Medicare You Can Buy Into Act” on the PNHP site, and so do not favor his bill). Kucinich passes the purity test; he agrees that the bill is a bad bill. He’s out with me because he voted for a bill he opposes. Kucinich is the best the Democrats have. If he had voted No, I would have stayed with the Party. Now I won’t vote for a Democrat for dog catcher.
“It is the very greatest folly in the world for an agitator to be content with a partial success. It destroys his cause. He fades instantly. You cannot see him. He is become part of the corrupt and contented public. His business is to make others demand good administration. He must never reap, but always sow. Let him leave the reaping to others. There will be many of them, and their material accomplishments will be the same whether he endorses them or not. If by chance some party, some administration gives him one hundred per cent of what he demands, let him acknowledge it handsomely; but he need not thank them. They did it because they had to, or because their conscience compelled them. In neither case was it done for him. ” — John Jay Chapman, Practical Agitation.
Knowing this, I will vote as I will, whether I am one or one of millions.
Unsubscribed from MoveOn a week or so ago. Long overdue.
I can think of a dozen or more times I should have.
But they were attacking congresscritters for the wrong reasons on HC months ago, imo. And they were not telling many other members about it or why.
Orwellian is right. Doesn’t it just make you sick that he had the kind of cynical narcissism to go back to Iowa where the changey hopey thing felt very real, not because he said it, but because EVERYONE was so hungry for it.
His arrogance and self centered, self righteousness are beyond the pale. He really must believe his own lies— ‘couldn’t pass Congress’. I was swearing at the radio when I heard he went back to the heartland with this swindle.
I left Move-On over the Petraeus Betray Us stunt — Like they didn’t anticipate how doing that would be turned around and used against any anti-war effort?
I think we need to look at some of these groups that are, allegedly, working to achieve what we are working for, but wind up getting in our way and helping the opposition.
Just remember who is behind Move-On (George Soros). Just as we defended Bill Clinton to our own detriment through the Lewinsky-impeachment mess, we defend George Soros against Republicans’ taunts about him. Soros is no friend to liberal causes. For proof, just look around — What have we accomplished with these alleged friends’ assistance?
To the contrary I’ve gone to the trouble of getting on the ballot as an independent in the past.
I’d like to see a lot better policies. I engage with my representatives, don’t shy from calling their BS either.
The ACA HCR bill is flawed. And it is better than not doing anything. Fixing the flaws isn’t going to happen solely because FDL has been pointing them out, and in particular it will take the help of Congresspeople that are currently getting a lot of opprobrium here. Some of the trash talk is deserved. Some of it is due to FDL wishing for a political environment that will take a of of effort to bring about, but doesn’t exist today.
I think the trashing of Kucinich, and his compatriots makes it less likely we’ll get better politics going forward, at least in the near and medium term.
3 monumental liars! Obama, Reid, Pelosi!
Obama is the worst, for having stridently campaigned on false pledges that he had no intention of every honoring.
The hypocrisy and cynicism is staggering.
I’d rather see a Republican in office at this point. At least the added layer of hypocrisy isn’t there.
I don’t know whats harder to watch, the Republicans lying or the Democrats lying. I think its harder to watch the Democrats lying, because I had hoped for something different. If I knew this was the deal I would have voted for Hillary.
This guy fooled us all…….
Could Rachel Maddow, or Lawrence O’Donnell, be any more of a disappointment?
They’re still trying to make this about the evil Republicans. Democrats gave us this garbage bill. Republicans, who we all agree are scum, had no power. Except to annoy with attempts to distract and delay. Obama and the DLC-controlled Democratic Party couldn’t have had a better ally than in Republicans.
wmd1961 responds to fear. “OMG, if Obama isn’t reelected, then we’ll be in perpetual war, we’ll not get real healthcare reform, the NSA will be listening in on all of our communications, the rich will get richer while the middle class will become the new poor and lose their jobs/homes/dreams”. wmd1961 and those like him or her don’t realize that that is what we’re getting with Obama and DLC-Democrats.
Parsimony never entails conspiracy theory. What we continue to have here is non sequitur; makes for a reasonable hypothesis but does not make a reasonable conclusion without evidence.
Obama blocked the public option in a deal with the for-profit hospital lobby? In fact, the simpler explanation is that he made a deal with the insurance companies; they have far more to gain than for-profit hospitals.
The Coffee Party is just another method for distracting the minions who are mad as hell.
They just had their first coffee klatch, arguing over what they stand for and how to go about getting it (“We want our country back” — But what that means, they haven’t a clue), so it was “Let’s just all get to know each other, sing kumbayah, and pray for change we can believe in.”).
I’m sure it’s a George Soros front group.
I can speak for myself thank you.
I’m angry about a lot of Obama policies. You seem to not want to see comments that don’t fit your narrative though.
making false claims about what I want isn’t going to deliver ponies and rainbows.
I’ve never seen the public will be thwarted by leaders of both parties the way it was with the public option.
If they can do this, they can do anything.
Just in case no one else has already replied:
While whip-count inaccuracy might account for the last-minute failure to include and pass the PO, it does nothing whatsoever to account for the fact that Obama never lifted a finger to support it (despite having vigorously campaigned for it) and only started trying to lead the effort in Congress AFTER all vestige of the PO had disappeared from the relevant bill.
So I’ll suggest that Jon’s explanation remains the most straight-forward (as well as the most believable).
This has all been one giant con job from day one.
Many interesting viewpoints and comments on this thread. When FDL comment threads are good — they are good.
It will be interesting to see how November elections turn out for the Dupeocrats, Crapocrats and Obamacrats. As for us Lakeocrats it should be a good time watching the incoming arrive and the panic and flee reflexes appear and spread.
So if Barack Obama decides to go Las Vegas and try his luck again to win the WH in 2012 that ought to be a hoot. Having demoralized a lot of his supporters during 2009 after selling himself to be what he was not or is not during 2008. Will be interesting to see how retreaded Yes We Can and that Changey Hopey stuff smells and sells second time out.
Fact is this is a very big,very rich country that is not overpopulated that has out of control military,security,penal and corporate/currency manipulation regimes run amok.
Fact is Barack Obama needed to get in gear and do what is called leadership and be a profile in courage. He did not. He fouled out.
There is plenty of money in this country to do decent American healthcare.The problem too much is going up to the top 1,3 or 5 per cent of Americans. Not enough staying down where we poor,near poor or barely getting by Americans hang out.
So calling BS on this ” there is no money or not enough money” to do decent single payer healthcare in America. Funny how the propaganda serves the Lords of the Universe so well.
Who is going to do what needs to happen politically in America to get a good single payer ( Medicare For All ) plan done? Someone. Just not Barack Obama. Problem is not enough money. Problem is understanding that we are all Americans and the wealth of this land is ALL ours. Not just for some. Get the taxes sorted out and tax ALL the income bottom to top. ALL OF IT.
Problem not enough money to do decent American healthcare? GET THE MONEY.
This is The Big Island folks. The Big Island. What is not working here?
Call the BS. And Barack Obama just served us a good shovel full.
Telling the lies for those who support the liars is the easy way to go.
Doing what is right? What needs to take place? A real leader can/will do it.
A waste of our time used car salesman like Barack Obama? Not happening.
So did not happen. The Dummyocrats are sucking it up plain to see. And Barack,Nancy and the Loserocrats in Congress are happy to let them.
We are all Americans. Not just some of us get all the wealth. Its been that way for a long time. But that can be changed. Just like slavery was. Womens rights came into being. Gays are fighting to change now. Five percent of Americans do not get to control over two thirds of household income and wealth. That needs to change. Will change. Sooner. Later. Will change.
Thanks to wmd1961, I see more clearly that my instincts are right.
I don’t think the HCR is half the disaster you folks are making it out to be.
If the PO is so popular, it will still be around as a proposal and get enacted later. It is hardly “dead”. Neither is single-payer reform.
Getting so-called private lenders out of the student loan “business” was its own gargantuan task, because as FDL points out, it’s easy for big corporations to pick off a few Senators and get their way. But it’s happened, and now the program is to fight back harder or for more.
I am not sure that the negativity is serving anybody well.
I never want to hear “public option” again. It was always just a ruse to give away the store anyway.
MEDICARE FOR EVERY AMERICAN
From now on, demand and accept nothing less.
Do you really think someone will re-introduce PO?
If you know something we don’t, please tell … Who in the House, who in the Senate ?
Grrrrrreat Read! Congrats.
Nov, 2010 = No current democrat House Or Senate on my dime, give me a better choice or dont ask for my vote at all.
Fool me Once.
I wasn’t speaking for you; I was speaking about you.
I think this Bill is a LOT worse than nothing at all for the many reasons Jane & team have exhaustively reported for months & months. Had the Dems not passed this largely Republican & corporate written giveaway I’m convinced Congressmen’s need to get reelected would have pressured them to pass significant improvements one at a time over the next 5 months, (starting with drug reimportation). As it now stands HCR will definitely not be readdressed in Obama’s Presidency – he got passed what he wanted, no more, no less. Expecting more is unwarranted by what we’ve seen & the lies we’ve been told. Dems will not see the majorities they now have in Congress for a long, long time.
One Soros supported organization that has helped a great deal over the years is the ACLU. I know Soros slightly, and have heard many things about him from a friend who has been much closer, and, not uniformly favorable in his views. However, I think Soros worries about things like the mal-distribution of wealth and its implications for Open Society, and he is really for very strong regulation of the financial system.
I’m much opposed to veal pen organizations that he’s supported in the past. But candidly, I doubt seriously that George has much to do with the direction these organizations have taken, in spite of his financial support for them at critical stages. I also doubt that he will continue supporting them if they don’t start getting better results in areas like health care and jobs. If I had to characterize George with a label, I’d say he’s more of a New Deal Democrat than we give him credit for, and there’s nothing he like to see more in America than a New Deal 2.0.
Perhaps I’m wrong about this since most of what I’ve heard him say has been related to international economic system. But based on various side remarks he makes in the course of outlining his assessments of the economic system, he certainly doesn’t sound like a free market guy, and he certainly does worry a lot about the growing mal-distribution of wealth.
Why couldn’t he have made a deal with both?
The PO was our compromise on a compromise. They still didn’t take it. Now that this POS is done, let’s drop the PO as something liberals will support going forward. Somebody said up above Medicare for All. Great. A phased in Medicare starting at 55 and lowering over time. Great. Single payer. Fine. The PO is now only a tool to separate the sell-outs from thier money. Let’s drop the f-ing thing, and stand firm for real reform. We should be the ones to up the ante, for a change.
No. It is not different. As far as I can tell Obama never had any plan other than one based on subsidizing big insurance and big pharma. That was telegraphed the first day the Baccus committee met and told the single payer advocates to take a hike.
It is possible the intent early was to include the public option but for the reasons I outlined it simply couldn’t fly economically in the context of their first intent.
They lied and lied as I said, cruelly. But I give the Congress a pass on for having to recognize the economics just wouldn’t work.
Of course there is all kinds of politics that confuses and obscures the picture still.
I agree that the deal/plan was to provide access by subsidizing big insurance. The situation with the hospitals is more a matter of reality. They can’t survive on current Medicare rates for all.
I think you did the right thing by joining Green Party and I am planning to do the same whether it matters or not in the final tally in my district. Request to all,.do not skip elections in 2010 in disgust. If you do things will become worse with more mandates. I now feel Democrats are worse than republicans because their talk is progressive while policies are regressive having a twist at the end of bait and switch on Americans.
In addition please do not contribute a single dime to Democrats. It’s a waste of your precious hard-earned money. They will be getting more from AHIP through a slight diversion of funds through Mandates on middle class they got through this bill. I hope Republicans kill this mandate for the sake of our long term prosperity and our individual liberty.
As long as Democrats will not put a self-imposed charter of not taking a single corporate dime directly or indirectly I would not trust them, even consider voting for them, spending time or donating money for them.
The Rose Party.
Yes.
No way with the current democratic congress, senate and executive branch which is a head-long dash in the race to the bottom with no concern or care for the long term consequences of their policy actions.
We need to give them some serious competition for progressive votes so that their behavior changes for better. You just need 5 Reps and 1 Senator blocking bills till they become better from a third party like Green party which has the honorable self-imposed restraint of not taking any corporate donations to show Americans they have better alternatives. This is more realistic and easily achievable goal for progressives than having a president from a third party.
A Repblican won the White House in 2008, occupies it now and is busy giving us Bush’s third term. Why would another Republican in 2012 be any worse?
So… increase Medicare reimbursement rates. They’re not set in stone, or bring back the Hill-Burton hospital subsidies.
Hill-Burton was the one part of Truman’s original 1945 healthcare bill that Congress passed, Uncle Sam funded the construction and renovation of thousands of community hospitals, probably too many to be viable without government support.
The Democratic Party might actually lose Congress in 2010 and Obama might actually lose the Presidency in 2012 because they gave the people
(1) An Individual Mandate For All
and
(2) No Public Option
when the people wanted to be given
(3) No Individual Mandate
and
(4) A Strong Medicare-Like Public Option For All.
The Message of Massachusetts was that the people wanted to be given (3) and (4) and did not want to be given (1) and (2).
In other words, the Democratic Party might actually lose Congress in 2010 and Obama might actually lose the Presidency in 2012 because they did not heed The Message of Massachusetts.
(In Massachusetts, a sufficiently high percentage of those who wanted (3) and (4) either stayed home or cast a protest vote.)
Read last night that they’re (DCCC and others) polling 2010 this way:
Progressive: 13%
Dems: 40%
Pubs:30%
Teas/Libs: 15%
Others: 2%
If they can keep the Tea/Libs separated from the pubs, they don’t need us.
It’s kind of our choice, Bus Tire Tracks or a Sword to Fall On, but again, It’s our choice.
until the D’s and R’s start caucusing together. (Which is one of the steps necessary in the evolution of the two into one …)
A must read for the real truth hidden behind the lies chronicled by Jon Walker.
[http://tinyurl.com/KabukiOnTheHill]: “It’s all Kabuki theater
to cover up the truth that President Obama made a backroom deal with the
for-profit hospital industry that the final health care bill would not
include a national public option.”
Who are those 40% Dems and 13% progressives anyway. Is there a difference between progressives and Dems. I thought all the true Dems are progressives. If I wanted my vote and my campaign contributions to support corporate welfare at the expense of middle class concerns I would have simply shifted to Republican party.
BTW Republicans at the national level would have never dared to put anything so called Individual Mandates. Thats why the AHIP and Pharma did not even broach topic with the prior Republican Executive branch, Senate and Congress even though they had a very good chance of getting it done if they were willing.
I will keep my conscience clear by shifting my vote to GREEN party and I think this is better for the long term welfare of the country.
True.
Obama has been aggressively opposed to the public option at each and every turn. What he says on the campaign trail is just pure theater (lies).
Someone needs to ask Obama if he supports Alan Grayson’s “Medicare Buy-in” proposal and put him on the record (which costs the Government no additional money).
I’ll bet he kill that off too (if Nancy Pelosi doesn’t already beforehand).
Hmm. I never thought of nationalist and leftist as being copascetic before. But in the new globalist order, that makes sense.
Now that’s the way to talk.
General Grant: “I don’t want to hear any more talk about what General Lee’s going to do to us. I want to hear what WE are going to do to General Lee.”
Ever hear of national socialism? Very popular in its day.
Hee hee. Firebaggers. Great Scrotums of Fire!
Gotta laugh a little.
I have and that thought briefly crossed my mind, but that’s not what Lets is talking about and I think you know it.
Correct, correct and correct.
I suspect anyone who is more interested in power than people. True, this is a political forum, but the purpose of politics should be uppermost.
That was me norcalib. I’ve been telling ‘em to drop the F—in PO for months.
An international democratic movement that can rule is impossible. So for the time being we have to be satisfied with national democracies, if we can get ‘em. But we can’t get ‘em without putting an end to globalism, because it’s whole thrust is to screw national democracies and protect the interests of a small international community of privileged elites. If we let them these elites will subordinate national governments and create a new corporate-based feudalism.
Right, but that one wasn’t democratic and constitutionalist.
Nice job, Jon.
Laurie, you were so right. Thanks for the diary rec.
Best thing written on the entire Obama presdiency to date.