I was on the premiere of John King Live on CNN last night, talking about the primary problems Michael Bennet now faces as he moves away from his commitment made only a month ago to an up-or-down vote on the public option in the Senate.
The Denver Post also writes about it this morning:
In the past month, Bennet has become the hero of progressives, after he authored a letter — signed by at least 23 other senators — to Senate leaders pressing them to use reconciliation to revive the public option.
“He didn’t put out a letter saying, ‘I support the public option except if leadership wants me to be a toady to the party,’ ” said Jane Hamsher, who runs the influential liberal blog firedoglake.com.
Not all liberal groups are challenging Bennet, however. The Progressive Campaign Change Committee, which had actively touted his push for the public-option vote, is hoping that there can be a later vote, perhaps attached to next year’s budget, said co-founder Adam Green.
But that’s not enough for Hamsher.
“He raised money, he built his list,” she said. If Bennet doesn’t offer an amendment, “he’ll look like a hack who was only in it when he thought there was nothing he could do.”
Romanoff issued a challenge to Bennet last Friday to honor his commitment, saying “where’s the ‘public option’ champion?” Colorado columnist and radio host David Sirota added fuel to the fire, asserting that “thanks to Romanoff’s demand, [Bennet] will have to put up or shut up. If he refuses to offer the amendment, he shows his past efforts to be kabuki theater — grandstanding for attention while refusing to actually take the steps necessary to do what he publicly claims he wants to do.”
In response, Bennet’s campaign manager Craig Hughes said that “issuing a press release is not leadership…What we’re not going to do is kill the bill to make a point.” And Bennet spokesman Adrianne Marsh reiterated that to the Denver Post, saying “He will not recklessly sacrifice this bill while tens of thousands of Coloradans are losing their health insurance and seniors are facing critical decisions about their medication.”
Bennet’s sudden lack of awareness of the Senate legislative process is certain to raise questions about his campaign contributions from companies who have spent tremendous sums to keep a public option from being included in the bill. Bennet has been a prodigious campaign fundraiser from the medical industry ever since his appointment to replace Ken Salazaar, who was named Secretary of the Interior. The political action committee of Abbot Labs, Aetna, the American Hospital Association, Amgen, Apria Healthcare, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Glaxo Smith Kline, HCR Manor Care, Humana, Johnson & Johnson, Medco, Medtronic, Novartis, Pfizer, United Health Care, Wellpoint and Wyeth have all made generous donations to Bennet’s campaign,
Additionally, Bennet has has also accepted generous donations from the PACS of lobbying firms Akin Gump, Baker Botts, Barnes & Thornburg, Bryan Cave, Murson-Marsteller, DLA Piper, Hogan & Hartson, Holland & Knifht, Husch Blackwell Sanders, Jones Walker Waechter Poitevent, Kirkland & Ellis, Patton Boggs and Williams and Jensen.
It stands in sharp contrast to Romanoff, who in a chat on Firedoglake yesterday pledged to turn down contributions from special interest groups.
Yesterday a CNN poll found that 16% of Americans oppose the health care bill because it is not liberal enough. That could cause problems for Bennet, whose silence on the public option last year was a big factor in drawing Romanoff, former Colorado Speaker of the House, into the race in the first place. It was only after Romanoff announced his intention to mount a primary challenge against Bennet in September that Bennet declared his support for the public option. Until that time, he maintained that Senators shouldn’t be “drawing lines in the sand.”
After Romanoff’s entry into the race, however, Bennet launched a website called Save the Public Option. He organized 23 of his fellow Senators to write a letter to Harry Reid, calling on him to “give the public option the up-or-down vote it deserves.“ He blogged about it on the Huffington Post, twittered about his growing list of 19,000 signatures and started a Facebook group entitled “I bet we can find 1 million people to Save the Public Option.”
This latest round could fuel the already intense debate that has erupted on Colorado blogs surrounding both the Romanff-Bennet race, as well as the health care bill itself. While 80% of all Democrats favor a public option, they are increasingly skeptical about commitments made by politicians for the purpose of manipulating online support in an attempt to harvest emails and emulate Barack Obama’s successful 2008 grassroots fundraising model. After 65 members of Congress pledged to vote against any bill that does not have a public option, online supporters raised $430,000 in campaign donations to thank them. Every one of them subsequently abandoned that pledge, but none except Dennis Kucinich has offered to return those contributions.
Bennet could easily get caught in the backlash. While he maintains that a vote can be taken on the public option at a later time, such a would require 60 Senate votes whereas the current amendment would require only 50. And as Bennet well knows, there are not 60 votes of support in the Senate for a public option. His current actions only add ammunition to those in Colorado who have questioned the sincerity of his commitment from the start.
Romanoff’s actions could create problems for other Democratic incumbents as well. Joe Sestak is challenging Arlen Specter for his Pennsylvania Senate seat, but Specter has maintained a steady lead in the polls after coming out aggressively for the public option. Specter signed an October 8 letter urging the inclusion of a public option in the health care bill. Should Sestak decide to follow Romanoff’s lead, Specter could likewise find himself on the hot seat about the sincerity of his commitment as well.
The public option challenge could not come at a worse time for Bennet, who lost the Colorado Democratic caucuses to Romanoff last week — Romanoff had 49.9 percent to Bennet’s 41.9 percent.




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Good point about Senator Bennet suddenly becoming “aware” of the rules surrounding the Senate reconciliation process. Don’t expect any of the cowards to do anything, or offer any amendment or proposed change that would result in the legislation returning to the House for another vote.
This is why, Jane, so many Senators signed on to the public option only AFTER they failed to include it in their own bill. They KNEW they would never be forced to actually cast a vote on the public option, and simply wanted to stroke the equally craven progressives in the House as an enticement to get them to pass the Senate bill. Now they bleat, “we CAN’T change the bill!”
They’re despicable…no progressive should ever trust them again.
good!
Because of the Byrd rule the bill will be changed and will return to the Senate.
Jane great way to call out Senator Bennett the phony democrat from Colorado.
These crazy Democrats continue to want to screw the Democrat base, with these crazy games.
random notes:
Jane – any way we can hear your remarks from Sirota’s show yesterday
is that Esai Morales, the actor ??
oh, and nice optics Red State
That tactic seemed to work pretty well for Stupak.
BTW, can’t we cut-n-paste that video? I hate having to listen to those other clowns.
PS – Bennet can send his refund of the money I sent him directly to Romanoff.
Drink up, Shriners!
I keep hearing the Leonard Cohen song “Democracy is Coming”, by snail! The mantra to the Senate should be “SPINE”! Lose it and it will become “SWINE”!
jane I just kicked in $10.00 to the ad.
go get ‘em!
why won’t bernie add the amendment anymore? he’s pretty old anyway, what can they take from him that he won’t lose in a few years?
oh wait, it’s not processing my donation. I’ll try again later. i think you might want to check the site for a glitch? i entered my card number twice, and it won’t process.
Sorry about that – we’ll report it to the powers that be.
wow. Adam Green and PCCC bought off ? that was fast
Jane for president … of the USA!
He was just waiting for his “leadership” to write him a big enough check.
Thank you so much for posting that CNN clip, I can’t bare to go to the networks and listen to anything I don’t have to. But hey, Denver post is saying we are influential. Thanks for all you do. This primary of Romanoff gives me some hope and at this point we can all use some motivation. thanks
PLEASE don’t forget to sign the petition to Senator Bennet to introduce
the PUBLIC OPTION now that the HCR Bill has been signed and on its way to
the Senate.
Need to spell Arlen Specter’s name consistently and correctly.
.
Jane…..love your site and love all you’ve been doing. Having said that, may I suggest you take a weekend and get away, and do some soul searching? You see, instead of the Dems being shown as the corrupt political hacks that they are, YOU are getting tossed under the bus. All blogs that even the media says are progressive, are tossing YOU to the lions. They aren’t listening Jane. They see YOU as the enemy instead of actually hearing what you are saying. So if this trend continues, in the end, no changes will come about over anything you speak of. The left already blames the Republicans for everything since the dawn of time, and refuse to see the Dems for what they are. You could show them live video footage of Obama robbing a bank, and they would blame you.
Sestak v. Spector
Oh yeah, more change…
The only difference between their numb-nuts and ours can be measured by the degree of ‘civility’. Otherwise both sides are willing and eager suckers.
Jon-
What WOULD Senate Democrats do if Republicans offered a public option amendment? It’s clear that since the Democratic leadership is whipping against all amendments to the reconciliation bill, they don’t want such a vote. By not allowing a vote on a public option amendment, they would appear to oppose the public option…if they allowed such a vote, wouldn’t it force Democratic Senators to publicly declare their positions, while Republicans could still vote no?
tragic comedy.
It’s certainly depressing, the choices liberals have today. I read somewhere the parties described as the ‘corporatist war party’ and ‘warmongering corporate party’.
My own choice in PA’s Democratic Senate primary are between Arlen Specter and Joe Sestak. After reading on many blogs about how Sestak was the ‘progressive challenger’, I took the time to attend one of his events. Sestak supports the war in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and completely opposes Single Payer health care. He even opposes the Kucinich Amendment which would enable states to establish their own single payer systems – something the PA legislature voted in bi-partisan fashion to investigate. Sestak told the story of his daughter who had a serious illness, and implied she would have died under a Canadian style health care system.
With no actual liberal choices any more, not even Dennis Kucinich, where can we look for leadership among elected politicians? A better question still, why should I vote to elect or re-elect someone who holds substantive policy beliefs in direct conflict with my own? This isn’t a single issue litmus test, but broad differences on many issues – reproductive rights, health care, financial reform, civil rights, war and foreign policy.
The first tell-tale sign we were in trouble, when I had direct evidence and not just suspicion that the Obama administration and Congressional leaders weren’t about to address problems with a populist view came over a year ago – when they went against their own campaign pledge to roll back the Bush tax cuts on the ‘wealthiest 1%’. “We can’t raise taxes during a recession”, they said, as if channeling Milton Friedman from his grave.
Which course of action is more likely to advance my own, liberal views in the long run – voting to put a bad Democrat in office, voting for a third party, or voting for a Republican in hopes that the next time around a real Democratic will be around?
That is the question that will be facing me and millions of Democrats this November.
Bennet is no better or worse than the rest of the two-faced, lying bastards. He’ll just be the first of many to exit. In addition to this huge, steaming turd of a bill, they still own 2 wars, Wall Street excesses, catastrophic unemployment, homelessness, record numbers of hungry, just as if the election never happened. Heckuva job Barry.
please direct me to what I missed, regarding Adam Green and the PCCC. I know I had a back and forth with them yesterday. they are saying they need money to fight the blue dogs saying they are the reason public option was not in the bill. I pointed out the deal Obama made with the hospital lobbyist and said he was the reason for no public option and when they want money to replace him, let me know and unsubscribed.
For Conservatives the goal seems to be to repeal Healthcare and run with this against us next election. Who could have guessed?
Keep up the good work Jane, soon you will be the only reputable blog for true progressives to go to.
I like it Mauimom.
I combine the 2 and call it the “Capitalist Party.”
from Jane’s post:
emphasis mine
I assume you’re being sarcastic. In case you’re not, you should know Sestak strongly supports War in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and opposes efforts in PA to establish state based single payer. He would only accept the Kucinich Amendment if there were an individual opt-out. In telling a story about his own daughter’s health problems, he implied she would have died had she lived in Canada.
Indeed, the choice between Sestak and Specter is no choice.
Voting, who cares?
http://www.americanfilms.com/play.cfm?clipid=882
good for you!
no, I’m dead serious.
unfortunately, i don’t think any of those 3 options will really affect our long-term goals. we have a democratic president, senate, and congress, and still put out shitty bills.
so i get drunk once or twice a week when i get depressed. that’s my long term strategy
Yep, when the communists take over there won’t be any need for voting, right?
James Carville whoring for Blanche Lincoln. He really loves batshit conservative, unhinged women, doesn’t he?
Change looks like a bailout of the insurance companies? Paid for by the middle class instead of the rich? We paid for the Savings and Loan Bailout, the Airline Bailout, the GM bailout, the Bank bailout. Just how much of this money has or will likely ever be paid back.
Bush devalued the Dollar by paying for 2 wars with debt financing making everything we buy more expensive.
Its time the Elite who gotten bailed out around once a decade since Bush 1 and have gotten richer as a result paid us with healthcare and a jobs program.
My idea is to get rid of the 2 year term entrenched corporate, do nothing democrats and then replace those republicans in 2 years. That could be pretty harmless. An aid to my congressman basically told me, we have to vote for them or get republicans and we had tons of power, look at what we did in 2006 and 2008. I told him, we would have power when we get rid of some democrats.
this is not the first time Jane Hamsher has been harshin’ their partisan mellow. and if their is to be a Dem ass whoopin’ in November, those same watb’s will be over here on 11/3 bleating about us ‘hamsherites’ causing it
LOL
Good we can tie her loss to him and Healthcare.
So, when Andrew Romanoff predictably betrays us, then what?
I can’t wait.
yes on the bat shit women, but he is acting as Big Dog’s beard at a time where Big Dog his own self can’t risk it
I think we could do that!!!
Hee hee!
Enjoying Authoritarianism much?
The choice between spam and more spam is spam.
I was just browsing the comments section of Huffington Post, which is always harrowing.
Apparently, reform has been achieved. MSNBC is backing the O-holes up on this new meme, which is clearly going to be The New Reality. All you have to do is repeat it incessantly. It’s weird watching Democrats–the Obacrats, anyway–act just like Republicans.
Phone Calls to Wall Street:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOZTldbo2Fw
but…that’s crazy! they have to build their mansions to give hardworking illegal immigrants a job as their masonworkers and gardeners so they can pay cash, under minimum wage, and dodge taxes with offshore accounts!
that’s hard work man!
me and wondergirl will be waiting. although I’m enjoying batting practice over at FB :D
She already is…….but…….if they toss her under the bus personally, then what power will she have left? None. What we are seeing is a battle for an entire political party, and true progressives are losing. Badly. That’s why as a huge fan I suggest Jane take a weekend off, relax, and do some thinking on where to go from here. Obviously, what is happening is she is being ostracized from the Dems completely. Not good if your plan is to make changes to the politics in Washington.
I just think the political process failed to deliver public insurance. At essence was a plan to make public insurance available to everyone, but importantly the lower/working middle class, and is anyone fooling themselves that the intent of that policy wasn’t to at the least ultimately enroll most middle class Americans in if nothing else, a public health plan to cover their basic health needs? The counter plan was to provide the feds with a small regulatory framework over the private insurers, AND using private insurers to cover more of the uninsured middle class. The primary problem, was the uninsured, particularly the middle class because the poor were going to be covered by the Medicaid expansion. Today 47% of medical bill are paid by government, about 1/3 are paid by private insurers. We had two ways to cover more middle class Americans, more public insurance, more private insurance. The Dems and Obama went the fed reg. way utilizing private insurers to cover more of the middle class. I don’t think there will be a “public option” on the horizon soon because the intent of this plan was counter to a movement to make public insurance more broadly available to the middle class.
But here we are. PO supporters are stuck in their heels that they can add a public option to a plan designed to limit the needs of the middle class to enroll in federal health care. Universal Medicare advocates, their advocacy groups, and their volumes of research, are still being ignored. And those who professed support for the PO, but were always more supportive of the Democratic leadership are declaring victory.
Highly fragmented approaches.
Carville will be Clinton’s servant until one of ‘em dies.
canadianbeaver
the huge problem a lot of progressives have is that they do not want to admit they have been had by a Con Man name Obama.
Jane and lot of others know Obama is a Fraud.
The other so call progressive Bloggers can laugh now, but I have a deep feeling that they want be laughing long or last.
Jane has the majority of america on her side.
Charlie Cook the pollster said it best, the dems could not sell this POS of a bill before they pass it, how in the world are they going to sell it now?
Obama, Robert Gibbs, David Axelrod, and their so call progressive blogger friends are trying to protect Obama from being expose as a complete fraud. They know the base of the DEM party will not respond kindly to being screwed and treated like fools.
The Obama Hope A Dope only works when the Dopes enjoy being Dopes, when they get PISS, Hope leaves and Hell comes.
I’ll bet you are. Get some.
.
I can barely read the stories over at HuffPo anymore and the comments scare the crap out of me – who are all these people? There are apparently thousands of them.
That’s pretty ironic coming from someone who must have always been covered by some form of government health coverage. Isn’t he a retired admiral?
What you’re suggesting is to be as big of a sell-out as our would be hero politicians such as Dennis Kucinich. Fight tooth and nail up until the last minute and then change your vote at the last second to “get along”.
Jane may not be on MSNBC every night, but she is much more down to earth and true to the cause than anyone else. The media machine only lets the voices that they want heard on it. It isn’t surprising they don’t want Jane. Or if they do, they only want her in closing, not the main meat of the discussion.
Instead of asking Jane to change, perhaps you should re-evaluate your buy-in to the system and other media organizations that you frequent and whether or not they deserve your patronage.
Group-think is easy. It is easy to “get along”. It is only because of uncompromising spirits (such as Jane) that we can continue to have moral clarity in this day and age of spin and 5 second sound bites.
Piecemeal change is for fools and for those that would rather kick the can down the road and let someone else deal with it at a later time.
Jane, don’t change. I’d rather see FDL be demonized as a bastion of true liberal thought than for it to become part of the homogeneous wallowing trough that has become the vast majority of the liberal media.
Neoliberals blow dead goats.
hey i never checked yesterday, but did insurance/pharma stocks rise much?
First, Bennet’s letter stated that he would get the votes in the Senate if the house would include the public option in the reconcillation bill. Adding it now could potentially kill the bill by sending it back to the house.
Senator Reid has already stated that there would be a separate vote on the public option at a later date using reconcillation ( you would only need 50 votes)
Romanoff is no progressive, he has stated he would not have supported the current health care bill. Now all of the sudden he’s for the public option. Not taking pac money is currently political suicide in a competitive Senate race, unless he would like the GOP to win.
Finally his sense of entitlement, whining that this should have been his Senate seat, has turned off many Colorado Democrats.
Oh that’s easy to answer. Tax increases. Lots of them. On the middle class of course. OOPS. I meant, user fees, administration charges, environmental charges…there will be many names for them, none of which will actually be tax increase.
We can Primary people we can not show up to vote but the GOP in Ted’s seat only seems to be able to hold onto the numbers they had when McCain ran for President.
Its not like McCain was a big vote getter he ran a lousy campaign and picking Sarah sure did not help in Ted’s district. The GOP won Ted’s seat rather because our turnout was down. Can the GOP claim they are a majority even if running against healthcare they don’t get more votes?
and will be the Oligarchs suckers until our last breath.
Can’t we just tie her to him and this bill and throw them all in a river?
Then come November say hello to your new Nazi Neighbor to the South.
LOL Yeah, you have to wonder…
The display I see all over the blogosphere does not show that any so called progressives are going to change their minds. Grudges last for years, right or wrong. Even when these people see they’ve been had, they will not admit that Jane is/was right. It’s the herd mentality.
We need contracts not contributions I give X amount of money to Candidate so and so for National Healthcare vote for it every vote or I get my money back with 10% interest.
sadly, so.
a few weeks ago, Bernie spent the week-end at the Ritz in Florida with lobbyists. He is obviously not as pure as he pretends. But maybe he went there to tell them how bad they are for the country. But if that were true, I would assume he would have told us.
Emily’s List – my newest fungo:
believe a certain ‘foul mouthed fem blogger’ called that one ’bout 10 months back :D
At what point do we get to let the Dems fail? When do they have to face the music for the horrible decisions they’ve made? You know as well as I that this fall it will be “Go out and support your Democratic Representative or Senator, we can’t squander or gains.. Look at our HCR bill!” and then in 2012 it will be “OMG the Supreme Court is about to die.. so we need Democrats to be able to put forward the right replacements”.
At what point do progressive interests get served? Never.
You tell me why we should care if the Democrats go more centrist/right, they are dooming themselves and ostracizing a good portion of their base in the process.
Their decision to minimize Jane has more to do with them not wanting to acknowledge that they’ve betrayed their liberal base. After all Rahm has already minimized us anyways.
thank you, very well said
Common cause:
Whoever believes that Republicanism is caused by some birth defect instead of being the product of their environment ought to have their head examined.
Jane was absolutely correct when offering up to reach out to them. Ask yourselves how the PTB would react to Jane’s hypothetical success in integrating our very real and common grievances into a potent force against the Gov. and the Power Elites? We are ALL (red &blue) victims of their unconscionable self serving perfidy and their propaganda. Divide and Conquer is not such a hard tactic to wrap your heads around now, is it?
I am not in favor of situational ethics. If you believe something is right, you don’t change to fit which way the wind is blowing. I like what FDL stands for – that’s why I’m here.
Wait until after the election Nancy and Harry will lose their jobs leading the House and Senate. Our problem is finding real progressives to take their place.
The Blue Dogs in close districts are extremely vulnerable if we don’t show up to vote because many of them are in GOP leaning districts.
A 2 or 3% drop in Lefty Voters showing up and they are gone. Heck we lost Ted’s seat even the safe Dem seats are in danger.
Only those who voted against Healthcare because of no Public Option should be safe. However that means a much much smaller Dem party.
Geez, F1 and baseball. Too bad oldnslow saw ya afore I did.
Right fuckin’ on!!!!
Thought about contributing to the ad, but decided I will not spend another cent on begging a politician to do what he previously said he would do.
candaian beaver I have a simple question for you
Obama is against the public option
Obama is against drug importation
Obama is for raising the excise tax on union health care plans
Obama is for more war
Obama is against teacher unions
Obama is for the individual mandate
do you still think Obama is a Democrat?
do you think a real progressive blog would support the con man in the WHite House call Obama?
What they fear Canadian Beaver are the people who Blog at Firedoglake, they have no clue who reads this Blog, and who their new enemies are going to be.
do you think more people are going to like this health care scam come June, July, etc. ?
That is a whipsaw. A lot of people are thinking that way right now.
I understand where you’re coming from, but I think Jane is doing the noble thing by taking the hit.
Speaking truth to power is rarely something that brings any kind of personal reward, but it’s so important that someone does it. Going back to Old Testament times, we can see the pattern.
That’s my problem. Tired o’ gettin’ burned. After they’ve shown their mettle, perhaps.
besides, they’ll find another way to lighten your pocket book.
Actually Jedi, yes, I do believe Obama is a Democrat. Not progressive. Not liberal or Liberal, but a Democrat. I also think that most people that call themselves progressives, are not but are actually Democrats. This is where Jane comes in. She’s a progressive. She does not fit into the Democratic Party as it is today.
We had 466,000 hits on Sunday. That was two weeks after I ran the numbers and found that while all other major blogs showed a 10-20% drop in traffic over March of last year, FDL was up 46%.
People make the mistake of thinking that their own little online demimonde represents the sentiments of the world at large. It doesn’t. It really doesn’t matter what the party propaganda/cult blogs are saying, they mainly talk to each other and their echo chamber is shrinking. This mandate is going to be a disaster. I will proudly point to all we did to oppose it while the cheerleaders flee the wreckage of the shitstorm the brought down.
Everyone says they opposed the war now too. But at the time, it was a pretty lonely thing to do. The backlash loop will close much faster on the mandate, and there will be tons and tons of online proof I will gleefully throw in everyone’s face when they try to pretend they were only helping the poor when all they were really doing was facilitating a giant corporate bailout.
The Dem’s lost Ted’s seat its hard to think of a bluer seat we already seem to be letting the Dem’s fail. The GOP got no new votes our side just didn’t vote.
Either Progressive interests get served or the country goes TeaBagger/Nazi Mexicans get deported and Canada gets invaded for their oil.
After all once internal enemies are gone to keep the fear going new ones who have oil and are largely White will have to be either invaded or annexed.
And I would care what they think because…..?
Another thing that pisses ‘em off is that Jane and the Lake stick to the same line. Twain hit it just a few numbers up.
If Jane takes the hit, as is happening, who replaces her? Nobody online right now. Michael Moore was against the bill before he was cheering for it. DKOS is true blue Dem party. MediaMatters is an Obama cheerleading squad complete with pompoms. Crooks and Liars has devolved into a “republicans are insane and here’s why” blog. Digby is off in neverland swooning on Dems and lambasting JUST Republicans. That’s just a few off the top of my head. Any other suggested sites? Seriously, I have none left to visit but here :-)
It’s not the first time, Jane, but once again, I applaud you.
Heartily agree, and a HUGE SHOUT OUT to Jane for all that she’s doing. Thanks, Jane. Keep it up!!! Atta girl!!
I think I kind of get what canadianbeaver is saying, but with respect, I disagree.
One of the things I like the most about FDL is the mostly unabated progressive stand that Jane and most of us have taken – in this instance about the POS “health care” (aka Big Insurance/Pharma/etc corporate welfare giveaway) legislation – without caving or giving in or compromising so, so, so much that it transforms into something completely at odds with what we stand for.
Rahmbama ain’t into pantywaisted “compromise.” Obamarahama is into buttering the bread of the corporations. Rahmabama’s just isn’t into the voter; Obamarahma’s only into the coporate hand that feeds him.
Caving at this point is the absolute worst decision to make. The point isn’t for the Dems to “like” us or even *appear* to listen to us. The point is to stand firm on our values and continue to give our undivided attention to TRUTH and REALITY. If there are areas where compromise is feasible or possible, then fine. Let’s go for that, and I know that we’ve been more than willing to discuss *reasonable* compromises.
But at this point, we’ve all been HAD by this crap, and they’ve used credulous teabaggers as an annoying distraction (which has been discussed on another post earlier today). I do think we have common cause with a lot of the tea partiers. It’s just unfortunate that Republicratic media focuses laser-like attention on the minority who let their bigoted racist pig behavior go free. It’s ugly, but it’s a distraction at this point.
Go Jane. Stand firm. Don’t give up the ship. I, at least, am behind you 100%.
Cool! I wonder how many are GOP and Rahm spies worried about what FDL is saying though 1% maybe? I have no data or examples to estimate from.
*G*
do you suppose maybe Kucinich sold us out so he would not be ostracized? Someone has to stand on principles no matter what happens and as far as I can tell, Jane is the only one in the left blogs doing it. Most of those progressive groups are run from the top down. You can bet there are tons of moveon people that are not happy with the position their leaders took.
I personally, have been working county conventions. That is Democratic delegates and they have had it with the democratic party within the beltway. Jane is speaking for a lot of people. I have never heard so many people talking 3rd party in my life and for those that don’t think they work, they need to study the Ventura election in MN. At the very least, people plan to stay home. True progressives are principled and won’t be voting for corporate democrats. People in Washington had better wake up and I think Jane is the only one telling them that.
canadian Beaver
so you are saying that if Obama campaign in 2008 saying the following he would have won?
I am Obama I am against the Public Option
I am OBama I am against drug Importation
I am Obama I love the FISA rules
I am Obama I am for more War
I am Obama I am going tax union Health Care Plans
I am Obama I am going to force people to buy health care
I am Obama I am going to continue Don’t Ask Don’t Tell
you think this Canidate Obama would have won any primary?
WOW
the sneaky truth is the vast majority of the dem party is progressive.
the last time I check 80% of dems wanted a Public Option
So what wing of the Democratic Party does Obama represent?
Well Jane, you know best for you ;-) Keep up the great work! Just hate to see you getting attacked from both sides of the fence and nobody defending you. It’s disgusting to watch.
I don’t follow your logic. So what if they attack Jane, they aren’t pulling the plug on the internet?
And if she stops doing what she’d doing, as you suggest, then we’re still stuck with your scenario of no one to replace her.
I’m not trying to pick a fight, I just really don’t understand your logic.
go do it Jane!
Top 1% against 99% of the population.
Help stick that up there, implore us to bang our heads against some wall until that fact really registers. Then remind us to ask ourselves the obvious question. – That is, if you agree.
uh oh, looks like Gloria is a “shrill, purity troll”
Sorry jedi, but the healthcare debate proved that sadly no, an overwhelming majority of the Dem party is not progressive.
Use old, reliable “consider the source.”
that would have been me. I have known for quite some time, they want money and will support any women to get it, no matter if they are progressive or not. Hopefully, money from all those sold out organizations will start going to the true progressives like FDL and PDAmerica.
Beautiful…
From Glenn Greenwald’s second post today:
And what happens this afternoon, or later this week, if and when Republicans (those other-worldly creatures who can do no right and would never in good faith try to actually improve this legislation, in the eyes of rabidly-partisan observers and Senate Democratic leadership) decide to offer amendments to the reconciliation “fix” to add a public option, or drug reimportation (which Byron Dorgan originally co-sponsored with McCain and Grassley, among others), or bulk price negotiations (all of which should qualify for reconciliation under the Byrd rule)??
Do all the vaunted “supporters” of those measures in the Senate Democratic caucus just turn their backs and walk away from these deficit-reducing, cost-saving, people-helping, good public policies “because leadership wants them to be toadies to the Party (and Obama)”??
Or, more to the point, perhaps, will members of the Senate Democratic caucus who openly execute such a brazen act of political double-dealing – by voting down popular policies they claim to “support” (and which we know a majority of the House also claims to support) – get to do so without any consequences being brought to bear by the American people, or by honest reporting from the few members of the American media who can tear themselves away from the intoxicating prestige and perceived power of the presidency long enough to report on the actions of Congress?
thank you… wish I could put it so well.
Oh, no. No. Oh, man. JHFC.
What, you’re not buying the concern trolling?
“Shhh, sit back, stop telling people the war is going to be a disaster. People aren’t going to like you if you keep saying that, and you’re not convincing the people I listen to.”
Well, that’s inspirational.
At least the war cheerleaders could claim that it had a majority of public support. 59% of the country already opposes this bill, so “everybody” seems to represent a smaller portion of the public than they might like to think:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/03/22/cnn-poll-americans-dont-like-health-care-bill/?fbid=mzl4tFKGBSl
Good luck with that shrinking jihad of opprobrium. We’re delighted to pick up all the people who are sick of hearing it.
Yes, it is disgusting to watch. I don’t know Jane personally, but she seems like she can take it. And we may not be the rich and powerful, but there are plenty of us here who’ve got her back.
My point was, it’s obvious that the Dems are a losing battle. Progressives were sold out, not only by the Dems, but by supposed progressives we’ve all been told to support and help get to Washington. Now after being sold out, and only seconds afterwards, Dems are out in full force AGAIN begging to support candidate ____ as the true progressive voice. Elect so and so, over so and so, lesser of two evils, etc. It isn’t working. Baby steps this small will take until the year 2090 to elect enough progressives to make any honest changes whatsoever and by then it will be too late.
Yep. Jane is a tough cookie, yes? ;-)
The American cerberus is a two headed beast “which guards the gates of Hades, to prevent those who have crossed the river Styx from ever escaping.”
Both parties serve the same elite establishment body, intent on keeping us where they want us.
I stopped giving to Emily’s List a long time ago. I believe it was better at one point in time, but seems to have gone the way of all corporate lap dogs some time ago. I give only to candidates – female or male – that I think I can trust, which sadly these days are less and less.
Another point: if you give up on what you truly believe in – just because the going gets tough – than what did you *truly* believe in??
Yeah, yeah, it seems like no one listens to us DFH anymore. booo hooo Well if I’m supposed to give up now bc Rahm thinks I’m retarded, then I might as well apply to the Hemlock Society and just do away with myself.
Awesome! “Opprobrium,” I had to look that one up. I love learning new words.
Thanks.
Has the integrity and courage to verbalize what she believes is right and stand behind it. Works for me.
Reality is they are. why else did obama run as a progressive? He knew and knows the country is progressive. That is why he continues his great speeches telling us how progressive he is. can you imagine, yesterday in selling this bill he said “Of the people, by the people and for the people.”
I heard that before I could get up the stairs fast enough to turn him off.
So maybe that is Obama’s plan if the GOP runs on repealing healthcare this election then the Dems will get checks from the insurance industry.
Money normally does matter in elections but the election to fill Ted’s seat argues that all Judas’s silver won’t be enough time.
Do you think that there is one mischievous Republican Senator who would be willing to offer the Public Option as an amendment to expose the Dems duplicity?
What is a fungo?
What’s really going to suck for all the sellouts that whipped for this crappy legislation knowing it enriches the insurers is when they are going to have to listen to Obama drop the “civil rights” rhetoric and start bragging about what a conservative policy he lead the Party toward adopting. that’s going to sting.
Jane,
Give em hell. Been here since damn near the beginning and your principles have not wavered.
I,too, thank you for speaking truth to power.
CanadianBeaver see there you go again, listen closely “they fear fire dog lake because they do not know who reads this blog”
So you think the majority of the Dem party is NEO-LIBERAL? Conservative?
Answer this simple question?
Why does OBAMA always talk like a progressive? tell Obama to speak like a Neo-Liberal, and see how many people cheer, (tell him to shout about NAFTA and all the great things it has done for the USA)
Dennis Kucinich pointed this out, if you listen to Obama speak, you would think that his bill has a public option in it.
Also why is OBAMA reading letters from sick americans, knowing his health care bill will not help them?
the question needs to be, who read FIRE DOG LAKE, maybe this is why they Fear Jane.
the only thing saving OBAMA and his band of phony dems, is that the masses don’t know the truth about this Health Care Bill, I have a feeling come November a lot of them will.
20% unemployment in Chicago Obama’s home state if they get a hot summer Obama can brag about suppressing riots.
once again, thanks for the statics on the hits. You will be getting more and more. And the shit storm is coming. You can bet, just like the war people, they will all say, I knew it all along.
I heard Michael Moore say today that 3rd parties don’t work. Maybe they did not work back in 2000 without the internet for an organizing tool, but I think he is wrong in saying that today.
The health shitstorm will start later (unless we can really get traction with that anit-trust exemption and I personally think we could make a huge dent pushing that topic) – but the finance “reform” shitstorm starts now – and the next one will be all about energy and how Obama wants to build more nuke plants and drill offshore…
Jane,
Comment @99 prompts me to ask you: where do you come down on the vote vs. stay home at the next election? I believe we should vote. For one thing, it’s our right. (I also believe that you don’t get to complain if you don’t like how things work out if you didn’t vote to begin with). For another, our votes can at least dilute the winning percentage of the Dem or Rep. I’m not advocating that we vote for a D simply because it’s a D and not an R, but I do think we should vote for someone, even if it’s a write-in. What’s your opinion on this?
You know there has been very little media talking about the progressive that PDAmerica was supporting in the election in Mass. I think if we could have had him as a candidate, we would not have lost Ted’s seat, but no one is talking about that. The areas that did not vote for Coakley were the areas supporting him. Just to show you, my theory, principled progressives will not vote for just any democrat.
Completely O/T.
I have noticed for about a week now, that the frontpage shows less comments than what are in the thread. For example I saw 25 comments on the frontage page but there were 126 when I came in.
It makes it appear that fewer people are blogging here if they are only judging by the front page.
Dumb q — I know only one reconciliation bill is allowed each year, but could the public option be introduced in reconciliation in a future year? If student loan reform can be added to this bill, why not the public option in next year’s bill?
Don’t get me wrong — I really want someone to offer the amendment up now, and for it to go through. At the same time, if no one does, or if someone does and it goes down to defeat, can this get reintroduced in future years?
Good question a largely White but with a good mix of Minorities, Women, Gays who are older educated in other words we are the people the GOP claims they represent at Country Club meetings not the lunatic Tea Baggers.
I sense people are approaching a crossroads. Stick with the meme of “change it from within,” or go with the idea of “let it go and see what else is out there.” I understand how frightened individuals are of becoming powerless if one drops the “D” designation from one’s political affiliation. And each person’s gotta do what s/he’s gotta do. I honor that.
I would just observe: This is the same thing battered spouses go through. So, so similar. Remain with the abuser, hoping change will come, hoping the abused person can “affect” a change from within the abuser. (And yes, from what I’ve witnessed, true Democratic progressives have been on the receiving end of name-calling, blaming, and worst of all, being ignored. As if you don’t even exist.)
Having said that, let me reveal my own personal bias: I’m a former Democrat who decided a while ago to dis-engage from any system that abuses me. I am not a victim. (Nor am I here to “fight” my way back from being a victim. Instead, I’m into tai chi moves AROUND the resistance. Result? No victimization, and I wean my way off of the adrenalin high of “fight or flight.” And yes, it’s easy to become addicted to such.)
P.S. There are other choices besides “either/or.” Though I realize we’re not used to going that route. But ya know what? It’s a very powerful place to be to say, “I can choose something different.”
Wishing you the best, whatever you or anyone else decides.
Well, I just got a begging e-mail from Bennett, so perhaps I’ll suggest my alternative [send my "refund" directly to Romanoff] as part of my “why are you unsubscribing?”
I’ve lurked for quite some time but only signed up recently due to an increasing frustration with other so called “progressive” blogs. I was a steady commenter at AmericaBlog until yesterday when it dawned on me that there seemed to be a genuine disconnect between the usual commenters who are livid with Obama on a number of things from health care to DADT, and John and Joe the two main bloggers who have resorted to just linking to other blogs and reinforcing the party meme that Dems are great and Repubs are evil.
I appreciated the work that FDL did over the past months on health care and decided that since you guys were my #1 source for political news, I should be commenting here as well. Expect others to follow…
Of course that was his plan all along. Did you know that some of his back door deals were, the health care industrial complex agreed to pay for and run ads for the democrats?
True we are not the GOP It does not take us 8 years and a loss of power like it did for the GOP for us to start calling Obama out.
I wonder how more are there like you maybe the Lake needs another online poll to identify why, who and where the new people are coming from?
great Jane!
Welcome. Glad you’re here.
Unfortunately, I suspect many do really know. But the need to be affiliated with a “winner” is a psychological dynamic. Ditto the need to belong to a “clan” or “family.” And these people, when faced with the cognitive dissonance of what Obama has said/says and what he does…are opting for the winner’s circle because a member of their clan/family is on top. At least, in IMHO.
I’ve stopped by HuffPo recently, and all I can say is: that “winner/clan” stuff…oozes through.
Very similar to my story. I’ve only been here a week or two. But there’s a lot of thoughtfulness here, and a willingness to name it for what it really is. Clear, clear intent, too.
thank you thank you THANK YOU
That’s a good idea..blogs evolve over big issues like this and communities change. I loved the folks at Ablog and although I’m not gay, feel strongly about equality and will continue to fight hard for it. I will not however, be a cheerleader for the Obama administration that has done nothing but lie and disappoint since they took office. That’s the direction it appears that John and Joe are taking the blog. Maybe they’ve been swayed by lunches at the WH and meetings with Pelosi, I don’t know, but there has been a change in tone there.
I expect others from Ablog to come to FDL as well.
And when Andrew Romanoff inevitably and predictably betrays us, then what?
Is there anyone in the house who’s not a weasel after all that has been said and done, so far? I’ve lost count.
Yeah, given what Democrats did, and didn’t, do with their Congressional majorities the last 2 terms, I’m leaning toward voting them out.
And for those who still engage that schism meme with glee, we have one of those here as well. Blue Texan does a bang up job of the left’s version of nutery.
I’m smelling T-shirt sales, Jane.
I appreciate your concern, but I think you’re missing the point — nobody is listening to them. The public discourse is not determined by a couple of people who may loom very large in your world, but it’s having all the impact of 6th grade playground taunts.
People hate this bill. The backlash is going to be seizmic. Anyone who couldn’t predict it, or who went along with something they knew in their hearts was wrong, might be persuaded to stay silent but they demonstrate a profound lack of character in doing so.
I, however, can count. I know what 59% plus 21 state ballot measures plus 13 state attorney generals plus violence breaking out across the country means. You can’t run a campaign against the evils of the insurance companies and then force people to buy their product. You can’t mandate that people pay them almost as much for a product they don’t want as they do in federal taxes. And you sure can’t try to jam this on anti-tax populists who are already vulnerable to right-wing propaganda and think there will be no blowback.
A bunch of ivy league wonks and some corporate lobbyists made a hideous, hideous miscalculation. It’s going to get really ugly. I’m surprised anyone would counsel someone to be intimidated from speaking out, but that probably does speak volumes about the state of the”progressive” movement.
Thanks – just have to get used to following the responses!
If we’re relying on voting to change the predicament that 99% of Americans find themselves in, then we are indeed punks and deserve all the shit they’ll shovel our way.
Jane!!!
I registered today and am a refugee from DLC Underground.
Another newbie! We’re so glad to have all of you. Comment a lot.
Welcome to FDL! It’s so nice to be a Fire Pup. :^)
Indeed. Now Jane perhaps knows exactly how Ralph Nader must have felt this last decade. Jane herself has derided Ralph this past year.
If you buck the mass-hypnosis people will hold it against you forever, no matter how right the passing of time proves you to be.
Speaking only for myself.
The mid-terms aren’t only about Congress. I think it’s safe to say that every ballot in the country will have a local race or referendum on it and every person within that area is directly affected by the outcome of those local issues. For example, there are people who don’t vote on referendums to increase local taxes of one form or another. I know a few. That’s no different that voting against one’s own interest.
If one doesn’t want to vote for a particular candidate simply leave that race blank or write in somebody.
With basic math skills one can figure out fairly closely how many voters didn’t vote in a particular race, eg, if x number of voters in the precinct actually voted but only y number of votes were cast in that race that’s a fair estimate.
Perfect assessment. “I like/love this guy. Don’t confuse me with facts.”
Thank you. I have tremendous admiration for Jane, and this site is like a breath of fresh air.
rites of passage?
This does not take a rocket scientist to figure out. The House passed a bill with Public Option it was the Senate that was unable to obtain the 60 votes to pass the Public Option with the likes of Liberman, Nelson and Lincoln.
Reconciliations bill has a history of going back to the House because of a change that the Senate has made and then passed and became law…No more bull-shit from the Senate…It now only requires 51 votes to pass Public Option in the Senate and the house will take it up once more and pass it in less than 3 days……
What the Republicans and Democrats have done is educated us on the rules something they may now regret.
Well, I’m old, poor, but educated, and they ain’t looking fer my leftist white ass.
This is an excellent blog, btw. Brutal in its directness. The DCCC will be public enemy no. 1 to liberals. Can they be trumped by the small donor? That would be sweet.
Following the chain of comments here, there is zero reasoning for being afraid to oppose this bill. Really, only suckers caught up in the nostalgia of a by-gone era when Democrats actually passed important legislation are allowing themselves to believe the Democrats have passed anything but a Republican-style bailout to the insurers. And, when Obama starts touting his moderate Republican health care law on the campaign trail those same people who heralded the passage of this modern day Medicare-like legislation are going to be feeling their pain. This reminds me of opposing the wars, no one thought that was going to be a popular position. There’s no downside to opposing ObamaCare.
Amy, the Senate was established for the implicit purpose to protect the financial aristos from the rabble, what flow from this is sewage.
Welcome to the Lake.
Namaste
I think I started about half way through the oath of office.
My wet dream is a Obama town hall where the audience rises and turns their backs on him.
Welcome to the Lake. I left DU a looooooong time ago.
Namaste
Thank you very much. I’m still going there occasionally, only to piss off the DLC contingent.
Canadianbeaver: Thanks for helping Jane tell us how she really feels. Game, set, match. Nice warmup.
Good point TCU. What about it Jane? It would be a good idea to find out where everybody is coming from, geographically and demographically. I think we should mine ALL FDL pups nationwide as a resource to uncover every group, every organization – no matter how small, who sees that slavish devotion to corporatism is the cancer devouring this nation. I think all these groups should bind themselves under the umbrella term, The Alliance.
Very very nice touch Jane, asking John King what he was hearing. He seemed to relax. You are a master in your interviews.
Sometimes you gotta learn the hard way.
I’m reregistering as a Green when my state’s primary elections come up this spring. I have no more reason, after Kucinich’s cave to Obama, to remain in a party that regularly dumps on its base. No more money or votes for Democrats — period. They had their chance to start the ball rolling on reform and chose to embrace the GOP’s sick ideology and policies. No more. Enough of their betrayals, enough of them. I say we dump the Democrats completely and start working to build up the Greens, and make sure at every step of the way we do not let any conservative candidates (ringers) get through our filters. We have to do this if we progressives want to be anything other than the ones consigned to the political kiddie table in perpetuity.
“People’s Front of Judea? We’re the Judean People’s Front! Bloody People’s Front of Judea…Splitters!”
This blog is taking on a distinct Code Pink tone. Back to reality people.
I suggested on a prior thread that we really ought to put together an edition of “what will happen if you don’t vote Democratic” bingo.
You’ve already filled in a couple of squares. {“OMG the Supreme Court” is the center one.]
Then, as each one of these boogeymen comes down the pike, check it off. Soon, B-I-N-G-O!!!
Totally agree with you.
The polls tell the political story also of a party that has sought to dress up a bill that is more about helping corporate entities than solving the needs of those in need of medical care. People that I know who have always voted D and never quite got indignant about the bank bailouts nor even the increased military spending have seem the light on this health insurance reform. When the mandate actually kicks in, if we go that far down the road, the response from the healthy though marginally middle-class may completely redefine the political landscape. This Republican bill in a Democratic facade will almost certainly push voters to the Republican candidates unless the issues are explained.
This site and a few other progressive and liberal voices that were against the bad parts from the beginning must continue to the make the case that this is not a progressive bill. Progressives and liberals cannot afford to become weak-kneed, docile followers of an agenda that they do not believe in. If they do then discontent will be voiced through other channels. The Republicans that who were smart enough to not support their own so-called market based ideas, originally crafted by the Heritage Foundation, will have won the war by losing this battle.
I still would like to know what it was about Nader that she found objectionable. Do you recall?
I’m not sure what constitutes a “progressive,” given the way those that claimed to be such have behaved. Romanoff may not be one. But he is in favor of single-payer (i.e. real healthcare reform).
Even if he weren’t, Mr. Romanoff would still be the only qualified candidate, in my view. Romanoff has the great advantage of not being Michael Bennet (or a Salazar or an endorsee of Mr. Obama). He is not any of those who have so flagrantly and so recently betrayed all sense, principle, and loyalty in the pursuit of power and gain. So, even if he too disappoints in the long run, electing him is the only thing to do.
We can’t reward betrayal and still have any hopes of recovering our democracy. There have to be personal consequences. Un-electing “Democratic” Party collaborators like Bennet thus has to be our priority. If we make examples now, there is just a slim hope that future primaries will bring forth actual Democratic candidates.
Sure, the aftermatch will be painful when/if Republicans win races. But, based on experience to date, the pain will not be significantly greater than it would in a Congress full of Quislings like Bennet. Look at any objective measure you want: can you honestly say that things are any better in any respect now than they were under the Shrub? the wars? the economy? healthcare?
Welcome, Nancy.
If you can, send some $$$ FDL’s way. There are expenses to running this outfit.
I look at it as “redirecting” all the dough I contributed to Obama and the Dems in 2008. Those $5, $10 & #25 donations add up!
Can someone explain to us how this bill does one single thing to help those living below the poverty level of $10830 annual income. How is this going to help them afford private company health insurance.
Guess that’s why they get excluded from the mandate, because the writers of the bill knew it wasn’t for them anyway.
Of course all the publicity seems to say this will help Americans get insurance for the first time. (But only if you can afford to pay the rates private insurance companies charge.)
Less freedom. More control.
Whoa! Did I miss something! Violence? Where? Did the Revolution start and I missed it? Damn!
SO true, we all now know entirely too much about Senate rules. For example, I never knew that a reconciliation bill could spill over into the next calendar. In retrospect, the Democratic Congress should have authorized an open-ended reconciliation bill in 2008 and held it till Inauguration Day.
Obama could have put in everything and the kitchen sink revenue-related (Medicare-based HCR, carbon taxes, tax reform, even a stimulus bill funded by a huge, mythical tax increase in years 8, 9 and 10) and quickly passed it free of any filibuster threat. Of course, just the threat of doing that would have brought Republicans to the table to sing Kumbaya with him.
stevedaly @ 184
Their reasoning should be pushed to it’s logical end with regards to say; home ownership. We should insist, and on and on down the line.
Jane liked that you flipped the question to find out what King had heard. Not many host will take this bait. Glad King did. Gave a clear answer
And your issue(s) with Code Pink is/are…?
I am truly sorry for not discovering this site earlier. Don’t know how I missed it, because I’ve searched and searched for “health care debate” and the like without running into it. Better late than never, I suppose. Well, onward and upward!
Jane [if you're still here, or returning], I’m wondering if FDL will do another “The Truth About . .” diary.
This morning I timidly opened my all-AP-all-the-time local paper to find their “summary” of “what’s in the bill” and “when it will happen.”
When the dust settles, I think it would be useful to have a “chart” similar to the one we had prior to the vote, that would lay out what’s REALLY going on.
The AP [or NYT or other major organization -- I refuse to say "news" organization] — summary would seem to me to be a good starting point, to clarify/refute what they say, and add what they “conveniently” leave out.
We all know these lazy nimrods are just working off the latest fax or e-mail from the DNC/OFA, so it should be pretty easy to disprove.
It just makes me crazy when I see yet another of these stenographic “news stories” that I know are brainwashing people in advance of actuality descending on them.
Holy crap. I just went to my e-mail box and must have deleted 15 “yippee for us; now donate to me” e-mails from various Dem candidates and Dem organizations.
I didn’t really have time to open each one, or to reply, but just sheesh!
I got news for everybody Obama has got far bigger problems then this mess. Right now he’ll get a short term boost because Americans as we all know love a winner even when he wins dirty. Come fall this whole issue will be ancient history and just a dim memory, the REAL issue in the fall is going to be JOBS JOBS JOBS and there is nothing in the way of any REAL job creation going on. Quite to the contrary as the so called stimulus runs out State budgets are collapsing countrywide and thousands of Public sector workers are getting the axe and all these people will lose their Health Care ( and this bill does nothing to help them in the short). The loss of these “Good” jobs is going to be a real downdraft on the recovery just about the time of the fall elections and the Goper Corp. elite will do whatever it can to make it even worse to try and re-take Congress for the Red Corporatist team. So, let the DINOcrats do all the cheering they want because the American publics memory is so short that in a few months the sheeple won’t care about this. JOBS and the lack thereof is what is going to be the thing voters are going to be voting about in the fall and the Dems. are not going to be able to tag the donkey tail on BV$H by Nov. even if it’s a fact he left things in a shambles. That’s NOT how it works you get a yr. to complain about the last guy and blame him after that by the hr. it becomes your problem.
Not specifically. I remember some dismissive references such as that path leads to Naderism, or so and so ends up a Naderite. You know, as if it were some kid of “stupid-disease” that followers of Ralph contracted.
I may be wrong and don’t want to ascribe positions to Jane that are not wholly accurate. If she would care to let us know what her views on Ralph were then as well as now I think that would be cool.
I also think it would be valuable to have Ralph on for a live chat. Hey, experience counts and we need every “swingin’ di**” we got out in the field. (Or marchin’ ovaries,) to paraphrase from “Platoon.”
Hello,
As this became the only political blog I followed throughout the entire grim train wreck this last week I have joined with others on this thread and signed up. JH, damn I like your style. Great work, thank you so much. And everyone else as well, so many great comments its impossible to keep track of all my faves. My two cents…anyone else watched this vid of Kucinich explaining his cave? I think that between the lines he is just screaming “They made me an offer I couldn’t refuse and it wasn’t a fat check and a pat on the back either.” His heavily pointed reference to Massa says it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTU-9pAejTI
Also, anyone else want to talk more about what a third party would actually look like? I believe there is a convergence possible between true progressives and constitutional conservatives. Anyone else? I even think that there is a meeting place on issues which are typically used to drive these groups apart I.E. Right to Choose/Right to Life. Think I’m completely crazy? I don’t know, I sense an undercurrent along those lines. Any-who, Peace!
You can bet your ass they are coming out soon with a trumped up jobs program. It’s coming
That’s pretty much my take. The right hates Obama Dems and thinks they are all Communists. You’ve got all us on the so -called “far left” who are beyond bitter and have gone to a darker place and are in no mood to be played this time around. That leaves the chunk in the middle who are all about the word “unemployed’ or worried about becoming so.
It’s going to be interesting. I really wonder how many Progs, including Firedogs, will have the will to resist voting for the Dems when it comes down to the nub.
thank’s, I too would like to know why the most effective real progressive would be given short shrift at FDL.
u hit the nail right on the head. your post is total reality at this point, unfortunately.
Don’t just delete. Unsubscribe and tell why.
When evil and lesser evil both work to indenture you, refusing to take the bait and voting outside the establishment prescribed choices is the only principled way to go, let alone live your life.
Thanks Nancy, welcome.
That’s a good idea Mauimom. We’ll try to do that. We were thinking of doing a month-by-month detail of the rollout.
Just thought of something: all the propaganda harps that everyone will have health insurance for the first time.
But wasn’t this true before this infamous mandate, too? I mean, everyone was free to go buy insurance at whatever rate was charged, right? Certainly, every healthy person COULD have bought insurance, right? For this healthy group, at least, the situation hasn’t changed any, except that now the IRS-enforced penalty hangs over their head. In what way is this progress?
Jane they are flipping out over at National Review about the legislation. Latest petition up
http://www.freedomworks.org/landing/noreconciliation/index.php?_kk=health%20insurance%20emergency&_kt=6552a00a-2e6b-4bd8-9003-42818184ad36&gclid=CN2tzYDYz6ACFd1L5QodxBiE5Q
http://www.nationalreview.com/
In a desperate bid to ram a government takeover of America’s health care system through Congress, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and Harry Reid have turned to a parliamentary trick known as “reconciliation” that will allow them to ignore all dissenting voices and pass, against bi-partisan opposition, their bill with only 50 Democrat votes instead of the traditional 60.
The reconciliation process was created in 1974 so that Congress could move quickly on budget matters, but the Left wants to use it to pass their big government agenda — sta
Up at Weekly Standard also
“No Reconciliation”
http://www.weeklystandard.com/
Hey, welcome aboard and thanks for the comment.
Actually I DO think there is some room for Progs and Constitutionalists to work together. I don’t think we can change this worship of corporatism alone. We need some working class folks, their input is invaluable. As well as a few “old time,” now shell-shocked conservatives, who can not believe how completely the country is being apportioned off to Corporations. I know- I’ve heard them express the outrage. If we are going to draw from beyond our ranks I think a good place to start is by NOT naming a third party or movement after a flower or granola or anything with the word “Social” or “People’s” in it. I don’t think it advances our cause to sound like a bunch of “Commie Peace Queers.” (We may actually BE that to a large extent, but let’s not scare everybody away right off the bat!)
I think the one thing all Allied groups must hold fast on is that the juggernaut of corporatism is killing this country on so many fronts. Get people of all stripes to accept and understand THAT and most of the other issues-healthcare, the environment, endless war, start to topple like dominoes.
And/or a phony Financial Reform Bill. The Dems are becoming cosmetological masters of porcine legislation.
That sezit.
“It’s certainly depressing, the choices liberals have today. I read somewhere the parties described as the ‘corporatist war party’ and ‘warmongering corporate party’” (ibldem)
TY GDC707, expressed better than I could. I think we are on the same page, but you don’t think Commie Peace Queers would work…? Damn ;-p
The number that will remain uninsured are the homeless, and the extremely poor. With this POS bill these people will be left to die, sick, hungry in gutters. Yea, obama, you REALLY care, don’t you?!
Might I suggest we call it the “fuckno” party? Hat tip Mssr Fuckno.
thought that petition was new and had to to with reconciliation in the Senate now. Does it?
Jane: I’ll bet the DLC hacks would love to give their new Golden Boy Michael Bennet the opportunity to get up on the Senate floor and pretend to be for the Public Option, now that the Bill has been signed into law. However, I don’t see how they could do this without forcing Democratic Senators to go on record on the Public Option – which is the last thing in the world they will ever do.
Maybe next January, Andrew Romanoff will be doing the same thing.
I think that petition has been up for some time. Not sure
I was just speaking generally in agreement with your comment about a “trumped up jobs bill” that looksgood, but is junk. Then a financial reform package will be dished up (in whatever way) and looks good but is crap, and then perhaps a climate bill that looks good, but . . . you see what I mean. It’s all just arranging the stage props for November.
That certainly expresses the outrage!
What Obama should have said:
“Today we have enshrined into law the basic obligation of everyone to buy at least a bronze insurance policy covering 65% of care. That if you have no rent, no mortgage, no long-term debt — this purchase may be affordable for those who are young and healthy. For others, it will be 3-times affordable. For those barely above the poverty line it will still be unaffordable but the number will be smaller due to government subsidy. But in any case, you now have the right — no, the obligation — to have this coverage. And it will be coverage, of 65% of your medical care. That is a landmark, a historic realignment of, of, uh, whatever.”
Well, I dunno. Maybe we should try it. Who knows?
Actually, what I would like is for all coalition advocacy groups to communicate in secret, revealing nothing to the media- even when asked. We should send communiques in code that could only be deciphered by some sort of digital Rosetta Stone. I can think of nothing else that would stir up more interest in an insurgent movement than to wrap it in a cloak of impenetrable mystery.
I further suggest that we claim no real leader. We will then ‘leak’ to the media that a shadowy figure who only appears in photographs with a mask on has been elected by acclamation as the general field marshall of this movement. The name of this unacknowledged leader shall of course be . . .Emmanuel Goldstein. And we’re on our way.
You clearly haven’t followed my prior postings here.
Usually I do “unsubscribe” and give them a “reason.” I even give them a fake e-mail address so they’ll keep sending stuff and i can unsubscribe/give a reason again and again.
But today’s onslaught was just too much.
Apologies for chiming in so late. I’m glad to see someone advocating (and someone else at least considering) going rogue and voting Republican (the memorable phrases ‘going rogue’ and “How’s all that hopey-changey stuff workin’ out for yuh?” are about the only excuses I’ve ever been able to find for Sarah Palin’s existence). It does take a bit of explaining, but even over at HuffPo I’ve been able to generate some at least hesitant acknowledgment that there may be some sense to it even if they still don’t agree with it.
Some of the more credible opposition comes from those who somehow think that *voting* Republican somehow precludes *nourishing* progressive third parties (or even Democratic primary challengers) at the same time. I found out the hard way in 2006 that actually *voting* for Democratic progressives in the general election could wind up being disappointing after they got elected, but have just enough optimism left that I’d probably give a new face one chance.
How are ya today?
To which the appropriate reply will be, “You’re welcome.”
Hee hee.
The Goal: Universal HealthCare.
Solution: FORCE everybody to buy crappy private health insurance.
Problem Solved!
He could also add that those “government subsidies” — the ones that are going directly from the Treasury to the health insurance company pockets — are YOUR TAX DOLLARS. Tax dollars that could have gone instead to, oh, community free clinics, decent schools, take your pick.
Nonetheless, good snark on your part.
And nice work by Mr. Oh-Now-I-Care-About-the-Deficit
Actually, I have, but your “perhaps” may have mislead me. Glad you did and do.
In 2008 you thought you were voting for a guy who was a progressive democrat, because he spoke like one and made promises to govern like one.
Well BILLTODD you must come to terms with the fact that a lot of us voted for a CON MAN NAME OBAMA
You and I never would have voted for Obama if he said the following
I am Obama and I am going to turn back Roe Vs. Wade
I am Obama and I am going to FORCE you buy Insurance and I am going to kill the Public Option
I am Obama and I am going to tax UNION HEALTH CARE PLAN
I AM OBAMA and I AM going to INCREASE our WARS around the world
you never would have voted for this OBama, but this is the Obama that now lives in the WHITE HOUSE, voting for Republicans is not the best way to piss off a LIAR.
Obama is a republican if you have not notice.
So when you vote for a republican remember this simple fact Obama and Rahm thank you for supporting their party, the republican party.
Obama told us all, and we did not listen, his hero is RONALD REAGAN, not FDR.
Most of them are just people who want to feel that things are getting better than they were under W and thus resist the idea that maybe they mostly aren’t. They’re people who need to believe that at least SOME of those in power are on their side, because of how scared they’d be if they weren’t. And so they’re eager to consider this a major win for the good guys without looking all that hard at the actual score.
Not exactly admirable, but very human. You can actually talk with some of them and get a glimmer of additional understanding, but don’t expect many actual conversions unless you’re willing to work for them over considerable period of time.
love the fake email idea! will do!
To which I’d reply: We told you what we wanted from you and you didn’t deliver. You said you would. You did the opposite. When you lie to your supporters, there are consequences. Remember that next time, and have a nice day.
Dear Mr Bennet.
You lied to us about supoorting the Public Option and used it to gain political points.
Here is the quote from your website:
As you know, I’ve been a strong advocate for a public option since we were just starting the health care reform debate this summer in the Senate.
The reconciliation process has been used for just this kind of urgent, publicly-mandated legislation before: it was used when we passed the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP), Medicare Advantage, and the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 (COBRA).
Those pieces of legislation have proven critical to our children, our seniors, and some of the most vulnerable members of our society. Today, the millions of American families struggling with health insurance deserve us to fight for them too.
Now is the time to make our stand — join my call to include a public option in our health care reform legislation by signing onto my letter to Majority Leader Reid today.
— Sen. Michael Bennet
I guess you really did not mean it, did you?
I am sure that Abbot Labs, Aetna, the American Hospital Association, Amgen, Apria Healthcare, Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Glaxo Smith Kline, HCR Manor Care, Humana, Johnson & Johnson, Medco, Medtronic, Novartis, Pfizer, United Health Care, Wellpoint and Wyeth are happy with the investment in campaign contributions thay have made to pay you to block the public option.
Michael Bennet the best senator money can buy. The Senator that will tell the people of Colorado anything to be re-elected. The Senator that said he would back the public option even if it cost him his job…The Senator that now refuses to offer an amendment to have an up or down vote on the public option.
Just another liar. I can’t wait until November.
Democrat, Westminster CO
Thanks, Jane.
You do so much that I hate to suggest an added burden. But since there’s no one else on the planet who seems to be doing this journalistic work, I’m forced to request it.
All I can do is
** write my letters & e-mails;
** contribute to FDL;
** disseminate FDL’s good works as far and widely as I can; and
** urge others to come here, comment and contribute.
[That "work for and contribute to Progressive candidates" thing hasn't turned out so well. I guess it's time for "demand money back."]
If there are other suggestions of ways to support FDL, I’d welcome them, and I’m sure other folks here would as well.
You have to be a glutton for punishment. However, no one says you have to actually READ the incoming crap in order to “share your thoughts” in response.
Er – I didn’t think that ANYONE voted against this bill because it did not contain a public option. But I could have missed someone, I suppose.
Good, good. heh heh. How much more shockingly prescient old George becomes day by day. If health care “reform” is Obama’s Waterloo then his “War is Peace” Speech was his “Mission Accomplished” Moment. At least political operatives and prop meisters can always be relied upon to overstep and create moments of jarring disonance which may serve to awaken one more person to see the Oligarchic Collectivists behind the curtain. lol.
My daughter wanted to contribute, and we did. My feeling was that while I’m not about to contribute to any Democrat for the foreseeable future (unless I’m far more pleasantly surprised by their future actions than I expect to be), contributing for an add that will likely hurt a Democrat if he fails to live up to his promises isn’t a bad idea.
Actually doesnt that line from “Life of Brian” reflect back upon Dem party loyalists at the moment? Theyre the ones shouting and frothing at the mouth when people start drawing logical conclusions about the corporate sellout that is the Dem party.
It appears that canadianbeaver and you may be talking at cross purposes. It is important not to conflate the leadership of the Democratic party and the Democratic party apparatus with registered Democrats. Obama and the House and Senate leadership are neoliberal and Obama is clearly phony. I look at what he has said and what he has done and wonder if an evil look-alike has taken over. That said, I think the majority of Democrats and the majority of Americans, for that matter, would support clearly presented progressive legislation.
Not with their issues, or their sincerity, but with their methods. They make liberals appear non-serious, if not comical. That defeats the message they are trying to get across. Much like Jane’s no-compromise position on healthcare. It served a purpose when negotiations were still in flux. Now it’s self-defeating. We need good strong liberal voices; we just don’t need to become the left-wing balance for the tea-baggers. It is foolish to punish people who voted for this bill because they signed a pledge to support a public option, when the political reality is, they gave progressives a huge victory and momentum. Single-payer is the ultimate goal for me. Now that it is established law that the U.S. government is responsible for its citizens having healthcare, it will be easier to move in that direction. In my humble opinion, that is…
I’m so glad to see your fire back: after your “FDL Statement…” on Monday I was beginning to wonder – though if you were still a bit in shock then, it’s not surprising.
A goodly number of those hits on Sunday were from me – a very new member here. As this sham came down to the wire FDL was the least depressing place I could find, and I thank you for providing that.
Another way to paraphrase Brian:
“Other than the sham health care reform, the escalation of the Afghanistan war, the continuation of Bush’s war on terror policies, the crony Wall Street bailouts, the tax cuts for the rich, the reneging on promises to close Guantanamo, the climbdown on reproductive rights and a bunch of other things — what things have the Democrats done that aren’t in line with progressive values?”
Actually, I believe the point is that people who organize into factions often lose sight of the fact that others who share the overwhelming majority of their goals are really their allies, not their enemies. The JPF and the PFJ were so busy fighting each other, they forgot that their real enemies were the Romans.
In fairness to Michael Moore you should play his interview on Democracynow this morning. I think he is very conflicted about this health care bill as is Dennis Kucinich. Moore sees all the flaws with it, and that it is a tool for enriching health insurance companies, but does think it will save lives. I have been saying for months and months that the process was a hoax designed to pass a Republican bill while pretending that a real, progressive bill just couldn’t be passed. I accurately predicted the path the health (care) legislation would take last summer at Dailykos and promptly had my comments HR’d (under another pseudonym–I didn’t even know what HR’ing was at the time). Having said that, I do believe this bill will do a bit of good in the medium term. It is being grossly oversold and it will probably be an electoral loser, and the insurance companies will game it, but I believe some lives will be saved. Reasonable discussions are possible about whether it will do more harm than good in the long run because the path from the system created by this bill and a genuinely good system is not clear. I also don’t think it is good to be so harsh with people like Kucinich and Moore (not arguing that you do this, but it is certainly the case at this site). I think they are decent people that have been put in an awful position. Indeed, one of the most insidious aspects of the neoliberal “left” parties like the Democrats (at least the leadership) and the “New Labour” party in the UK is that they rob progressives of good choices. We are left to chose between shit and shit covered in whipped cream.
Au contraire. It just proved that a huge percentage of progressive Democrats are also extremely gullible and/or intellectually lazy. They THOUGHT they were getting progressive legislation and thus supported it.
Thats one interpretation. Another one could be of you calling people that actually kept their integrity and their wits about them regarding a sellout bill “tea-baggers of the left”. “Splitters!”. Fall in line and stop obstructing the Party right at this moment!
Hmmm – I hope that you’re not being overoptimistic. If you recall, close to 70% of Americans actually opposed the invasion of Iraq if we couldn’t get a supporting Security Council resolution up to as late as January of 2003. But as soon as the troops were in place and ready to go, opposing the invasion became ‘unpatriotic’ and the polling numbers reversed.
Now that this travesty of reform has become a fait accompli it’s possible that some similar conversion of opinion will occur – especially if Obama puts his silky tongue to the grindstone (or wherever else he feels it will do the best job) and continues to promote the idea that it’s just peachy-keen. As long as the most objectionable portions of the bill remain several years out opposition may fade unless people like us (and people very much not like us at the opposite end of the political spectrum) keep them in full view.
Wow, that’s a pretty tough assessment. I thought I was frustrated at the pace of change until I came back here and checked out the comments. My God, people, step back take a deep breath. Are you really trying to live up to the stereotype of the “angry left”? I know there’s a lot of disappointment out there, but back to planet Earth please. In spite of what Beck, Limbaugh & Co. say, we did not elect Obama the dictator of America. At the risk of chaneling Rumsfeld, he’s working with the system we’ve got, not the system we’d like to have.
It reminds me of another time when we all felt pretty bitter – the 2000 election. After the right-wing of the SCOTUS installed W as president, Al Gore is quoted as saying the only alternatives were to accept the decision or press for armed insurrection, and he was not prepared to do the latter. That was a far greater assault on American values than anything that has come from the Obama administration. The country and the world was far worse off because of it, but does anyone really think armed insurrection was a viable alternative? Not me. That’s teabagger territory, and I want no part of it. I understand no one here is advocating the violent overthrow of the government (as far as I can tell), but my point is this: take a win and move on. There are other battles to fight.
Okay, I’m not trying to demean or belittle anyone who sincerely thinks this is worth fighting about. I agree with you more than you know. I just think, when we get past the hurt and disappointment, there are more productive ways to pursue our goals.
Only if one isn’t smart enough to smile at the method and listen to the message.
I don’t consider this a win.
So was FDR.
I don’t either but I am not angry or bitter, just befoozeled. There must be some way to get people to wake up and recognize that they are being played besides just stating it over and over. This guy Obama is a fraud, a fully owned and operated property of the ruling kleptocracy. Go to wikipedia and read a little bit about Carlos Menem. Start seeing the patterns of manipulation and stop taking your emotional and political clues from Oprah Winfrey. When I snap my fingers you will wake….
Americans won’t wake up until a policy affects them personally. That in itself is a sad commentary on our society. When so many Americans choose to believe the corporate media rather than question what they’re told they get the government they deserve. Problem is the rest of the world doesn’t deserve it. In mental health we call people who support the self-destructive behaviour of their significant other “enablers.” Blind faith supporters of either party are enablers.
bizzy, missed ya. Do you have a chaperone on your elbow, or are you good?
OK, thats good. As i see it its all up to how you regard the contents of this bill: You see a win (a small one i assume?). Others here see a gigantic sellout to the health care corporations, that will increase their power and fill their coffers with money, making the next battle harder to fight. Not to mention the loss of momentum the health care fight will suffer.
And this sorry legislation is passed at a moment when the Dem party has absolute legislative majorities, and should be able to negotiate from a position of strength, instead of one of weakness.
I dont see any ultraleft sectarianism here, just people drawing very valid conclusions and seeing through the mists of corporate propaganda.
So its fair to disagree about the bill. Not fair to label those that dont come to your conclusions teabaggers.
I agree the Byrd rule will force a change and thus a second House vote, and in that situation there is no reason to not have a vote on the public option – Medicare buy-in for all those age 64 and under.
I counted 43 votes for Medicare buy-in last time I checked – perhaps I am wrong and there are 50 votes – I sure would like to find out.
But I suspect Obama/Rahm will have Reid kill any test of the public option vote – even if the request for a public option vote comes after they are already into a revote in the House because of Senate Bryd rule changes.
Heck – I believe we are supposed to be happy with State -not Federal – health insurance exchanges, as in the Senate/Obama bill. Corporate Obama has not surprised us so far – and I doubt he will surprise us on his non-support for a public option.
Spot on Jane. I disagree – to a very small degree – with you on occasion, but this time I am in total agreement. The mandate must either go or a public option must be provided. Given the power of the corporate world over Obama, it is more likely the mandate goes with the explanation that its removal makes moot the 13 AG’s suit against the mandate. Of course legally it would not kill the AG’s suit or change their chance of winning – but it would be the PR reason for killing it.
If Republicans, in a bit of legislative trickery, were to offer an amendment to the Senate reconciliation bill that allowed for the establishment of a public option for insurance coverage, Democrats — despite longing the proposal for more than a year — wouldn’t even take the bate.
Story continues below
“We would know it is a game,” Sen. Ben Cardin (D-MD) told the Huffington Post. “We would vote against it. It is that simple.”
QED
We wanted the statement to be something that all the contributors could get behind so it was perhaps a bit broader than any one person might have written on their own. But everyone had the opportunity to have input on it and in the end I think everyone felt good about it. It was appropriate for the site and for the day.
My, my – you appear to have projected your own confusion about Obama onto someone else about whom you know absolutely nothing. Party-line Democrats do the same kind of thing all the time: perhaps you haven’t been away from them quite long enough to have learned better.
I indeed voted for a progressive in 2008 – Ralph Nader, just as I did in 2004. I did vote for Gore in Y2K, though: he ran an uninspiring campaign but wasn’t such a clearly Republican-Lite candidate as Kerry and Obama were (and I do like the way he grew later in the decade).
So voting Republican really isn’t the wrenching change for me that it might be for you, though I WILL miss voting for what I want (thank you, Eugene Debs).
If you’re a recent convert perhaps this comparison with something you may be familiar with will make more sense to you. Party-line Democrats have been urging third-party voters like me to vote for “the lesser of two evils” for quite a while, which is called ‘strategic voting’ (voting for something you don’t want because the alternative is worse) as contrasted with ‘ideological voting’ (voting directly for what you actually want – even if you know you won’t get it, as is unfortunately the case for us third-party types).
Voting Republican is the same kind of strategic voting: voting for what you don’t want because the result – kicking Democrats out of office – has a better chance of eventually producing what you DO want than supporting Democrats who will NEVER give you what you want as long as you keep supporting them.
Wrapping your mind around that does take more objectivity than recently-disaffected Democrats tend to have, but if you work at it the light may yet dawn.
Well, everyone has a right to their opinion. Mine is that CodePink and Jane are part of a very, VERY small percentage of self-described progressives who make my proud to call myself one. And I’ll be trying to vote every national Democrat I can out of office next November, save for any who might do something sufficiently impressive between now and then to make me revise that decision.
My beef with Kucinich and other progressives is simple: they made an unequivocal pledge based on principle, then they broke it based on – what? Expediency? Fear? Greed? Being mesmerized by Obama? Well, certainly not principle, anyway.
They may still be progressive VOICES, but they’re clearly not progressive VOTES. And progressive VOTES are clearly what we need, given how effective progressive VOICES were.
Agreed. We want people who say what they think, and do what they say. Such people are rare or non-existent on both sides of the aisle.
“If an agitator is not reviled, he is a quack.” – John Jay Chapman, Practical Agitation, 1900, 127.
What’s the problem with that quote? He did “support” the Public Option and his flip-flop will cost him his job.