This health care reform bill passed late last night and soon to be signed into law is a seriously flawed piece of legislation, for it fails to achieve the goals of real health care reform. Now that it is essentially the law of the land, the country needs to work diligently at the federal and state levels to correct many of the most egregious problems with the legislation before the reform package fully goes into effect in 2014. The six main areas that need to be fixed are: cost control, enforcement, individual mandate, abortion, competition, and immigration.
1) Lack of Real Cost Control
This bill does not create real cost control and will not bring down premiums for most Americans. Congress and state legislatures need to adopt real cost control measures like: drug re-importation, Medicare direct drug price negotiation, a public insurance option, Medicare buy-in, or a central provider reimbursement negotiator (all-payer system). These changes would save the government and regular Americans hundreds of billions of dollars over the next decade.
The bill also needs to provide a better pathway for states to opt-out of this bill so they can experiment with better health care models that could truly bring down cost.
2) Dangerously Weak Enforcement
There are some good new regulations, but regulations are only as good as the strength of the agency tasked to enforce them. This bill is dangerously lacking in this area, leaving enforcement mainly up to the same state insurance commissioners that now often lack the will, funding, or power to hold the private insurance companies honest. Only a national exchange and a federal insurance commissioner would have the power to make sure the new regulations are more than over-hyped window dressing.
3) Individual Mandate
The individual mandate, which uses the IRS to force people to buy a product from a poorly regulated, private industry, is an affront to the American people. The policy is not needed, and must be corrected before it has a chance to go into effect. People must be offered the choice of a public alternative, or the individual mandate must be repealed. Alternatives like a back premium payment system could achieve a similar policy goal to an individual mandate without a massive expansion of the IRS or government coercion.
4) Abortion
This bill is a massive rollback of a woman’s right to choose. It would take away the abortion coverage of millions of Americans. The system of exchanges and affordability tax credits could easily be modified to ensure federal funds are not used to pay for abortions, while still not taking away the ability of women and small businesses to buy insurance packages that cover abortion. Having an individual mandate that forces women to buy insurance, but also a law that prevents them from getting insurance that covers a legal medical procedure, is a disgusting abuse of women’s rights.
5) Lack of Health Insurance Competition
The bill will do almost nothing to address the problem of lack of competition in the health insurance market. Repealing the anti-trust exemption and adding a public option would be two big steps toward solving the problem. Creating an all-payer system would make it easier for new insurers to enter new markets. Requiring a standardized insurance package, instead of a confusing set of choices based on actuarial value, would allow Americans to do real apples-to-apples comparison shopping. Finally, adding much stronger risk adjustment mechanisms would force insurance companies to compete on quality instead of on avoiding the sickest Americans.
6) Immigration
Under this almost-law, undocumented immigrants would not be allowed to buy insurance on the new exchanges, even if they are willing to pay the full cost of the insurance with their own money. This policy is not only cruel and immoral, but fiscally irresponsible. The more undocumented immigrants that pay for their own health care, the more taxpayers save by not being forced to pick up the cost of undocumented immigrants’ uncompensated care when they use the emergency rooms.
The White House and Democratic leaders have made many promises about health care reform throughout this long and winding process—from guaranteeing affordable, quality care for everyone to pledging tougher regulation of the medical industrial complex that created this broken system in the first place. If the majority party wants to honestly deliver on these promises—not to mention if they want to remain in the majority—then a concerted and immediate effort is required to prove that this week’s legislation is truly the first step toward reform, and not the last.




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I don’t get how this bill includes a law that prevents women from getting insurance that covers abortion. Doesn’t it include plans that cover abortion in the exchange? That’s the impression I was under.
Also, can you at least acknowledge that it’s better than nothing?
technically possible, but put in place such a large finance and marketing burden that no insure will offer abortion coverage.
These flaws demonstrate why we must vigorously fight conservative characterizations of this bills as liberal. This is a bipartisan bill. People are not going to like it because of the compromises that were made. In fact, most people don’t like private insurance at all–and that’s not going to change.
Cost control is arguably the biggest issue. I got a couple of laughs reading the CBO report last night. On page 8 it estimates states’ Medicaid costs will go up only $20 billion over 10 years. That’s about how much their paperwork costs will go up. I wouldn’t be surprised if states’ costs were 10 times that amount. Another little one is on page 18 where is says the government will save $7 billion over 10 years on “biologics price competition.” Hello? There are no generic biologic drugs in existence, nor will there be by 2019. The bill makes it almost impossible to bring generics to market. Anyway remember: this is NOT a liberal bill.
I hope Jane leaves the most popular health care posts link box up. It will help with this dialogue.
How are we going to build a strategy on these points?
7) Will destroy the Democrats at the polls.
As others have pointed out, this is basically slightly to the right of Richard Nixon.
A commenter last night [sorry, I forget who] compared the idea of fixing the bill later
to building a house with that contaminated Chinese particle board
and saying that we’ll fix it later.
They’ll get back to fixing this bill as soon as they finish fixing NAFTA.
Based on what appears to be a new found knowledge that Barack Obama is not who you thought he was, I suspect most people here have no idea how much angrier this latest affront has made those of us who are new to this site; and were already angry with him, to begin with. Even repealing this bill – and there is NO way to fix this, especially considering the vile process used to pass it – will not stem the R tide in the fall. I would imagine, the best way to stave off the onslaught is to run candidates with an I next to their names. (Look at what happened in the US Senate race in MA, the bluest of blue states, even BEFORE the vote!)
Speaking of Nixon, would this administration and congress be capable of passing the bill
setting up the EPA? This is not a rhetorical question. Or maybe it is.
The House passed the repeal of the anti-trust exemption. Guess it didn’t make it into reconciliation, which makes no sense. How can a bill that promotes private monopolies in the healthcare system be a good thing.
Yes…someone else noticed.
Individual Mandate
Effectively forces young healthy individuals just getting their start in the workforce to buy expensive insurance to help offset the price of insurance for older, less-healthy workers at the peak of their earning potential.
Thanks kids.
i shall resist since at 50 + years ,i cant pay 1500 $ per month to NOT GET SICK
Anybody catch the moment during the “debate” when a Republican shouted at Bart Stupak “baby killer?”
Ding.
the insurance cartel is killing 45,000 people a year!
I will keep fighting. Alas, many of my friends think we’ve won something. A stunning number think that there ARE cost controls in this horrid bill and that there IS something in there to actually enforce what few bits of possible good are in the bill.
Fewer still understand how badly women were sold out in this process.
It certainly hasn’t helped that so many supposed “progressives” have helped parrot the party line lies about this bill.
It may be a waste of time, but I’ve been writing back every single organization and politician who has emailed me lauding this Faux Reform and castigating them for daring to call this hideous bill “reform” and for their failures to stand up for women’s rights.
I think it’s an understatement to say that legislation is “seriously flawed” when from a progressive standpoint it consists entirely of flaws. From a corporatist standpoint, of course, this is a winner.
This is so sad. It’s like watching an alcoholic friend in a tailspin. When the democrats fail to sell everybody on how great this do-nothing plan is, the results in November are going to seem tragic, but you gotta let it happen. It’s the only way. Rock bottom.
Ummm….are you new to the Lake? A lot of us here only voted for Obama because the alternative, McCain/Palin, was worse. Obama is exactly what we thought he was, or even worse. I mostly abandoned Obama after his FISA vote, and have seen nothing to change my mind in the ensuing nearly 2 years.
National Socialist Party=Nazi=Fascist=Cum-sucking Democratic Party. It was sickening watching Sebiulies this morning trying to spin this fascist bill as progressive this morning. And if anybody thinks the for-profit health insurance companies are going to behave then I wished I lived in y’alls world of ignorance. They got exactly what they payed for and for children to be excluded for pre-existing condition up till the year 2010 tells you just how damn sick this society is. For this not to have been addressed at least back to Nixon just tells you how damn evil our ruling class is. Obamabots go to http://www.opensecrets.org you kool-aid drinking Jonestown idiots.
The last thing someone wants to do with a “bully” is enable them. Obama enabled the Republicans simply because it provided him with cover for crafting a bill that favored corporate interests over the interests of the American people.
The Republicans will be coasting to victory on campaigns against the individual mandate. It’s better than nothing — for them. Is that the acknowledgment you wanted?
Confluence:
http://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/a-tragic-setback-for-womens-rights/
Goodkind @ 1:
“Can you at least acknowledge that it’s better than nothing?”
Not if you’ve got two brain cells to rub together. It does a hell of a lot more for the healthcare robber barons than it does for the american people. As someone noted on another thread, how many of the 30 million who will now be forced to buy junk insurance will do it, instead of paying the fine?
Also, it didn’t even provide for the re-importation of generic foreign drugs, which would have been a healthcare “win” for us that would have been SO effective at cutting into the obscene amounts of money that Big Pharma makes. Instead, Obama and Reid killed the Dorgan amendment.
It mandates all those new customers for the health insurance mafia, at the same time Obama and the dems killed the public option.
Obama and the democratic “leadership” (how NOT to use quotes when talking about democratic “leadership”?) have used women’s reproductive rights like poker chips to try to get the “big win”.
The notion that Obama has “flexed his muscles” is arrant horseshit; if, 10 months ago, he had gone to the mat on this, full-on for single payer, all of this Kabuki would have been avoided, and america would now have decent healthcare for everyone. It would have been a REAL win, not this trojan horse “victory”.
Of course, the healthcare bandits that have attached themselves to americans like leeches, would then have to find honest work. Now, not to worry; Obama has empowered them until a collapse comes, instead of the near collapse which he has inherited and done practically jackshit about.
And, as noted by jbjd just upthread, we’re still going to get hammered in the mid-terms, and how much of a salvage operation will Obama and the dems be able to mount, when those congressional margins are razor-thin or possibly non-existent?
The hoopla and PR about this “win” come from one thing: watching Obama neuter himself chasing the bi-partisan pony, as he squanders the most political clout since FDR, has saturated democrats and some progressives in panic-urine and drenched them in flop-sweat. At this point, they will accept ANYTHING as a “win”. It’ll be interesting to watch them react to the polls just before the mid-terms, as they come begging to progressives to come back into the tent to try to help them save their political asses.
I grade Obama and the current “leadership” at a D-minus heading for an F. I think we should interview some new student-applicants.
For anybody who believes this will be “fixed” later: Can I interest you in a bridge?
I have a female (fundy Xtian) colleague whom I am deliberately not engaging on HCR because I don’t want to disrupt a collegial working relationship. But I am biting my electronic tongue because she keeps putting crap on FB. This morning it is an anti-Joe Donnelly comment because he voted for the bill, “forgetting the people he represents.” He represents me, too, and I will campaign against him because he aligned himself with Stupak and against women.
Stupak gets an Executive Order.
The Progressive, and Women’s Caucuses get FU.
AHIP gets the plan they wrote.
Americans get copays, deductables, higher premuims, and oh yeah, more of the same crappy Health Care.
BTW, let’s take a little vote: when the shit starts coming down this fall, how many of us think that Obama will try to stop the bleeding by moving to the left?
Also includes a few paragraphs attacking Jane.
If there is any silver lining to the passage of this flawed bill it’s that the Republicans and all their fear mongering of “death panels”, “tyranny”, “socialism” ad infinitum failed.
Ew. Please. I haven’t digested my breakfast yet.
Thassit, Hotdog: progressives now officially have graydog tracks on our asses like circus tattoos. We are so far under the bus that they’ll have to feed us with slingshots. If they feed us at all.
Strategy is pretty simple:
when they call for contributions, say no.
when they call for organizing help, say no.
when they call for fundraising events, say no.
when you vote, ignore everyone identified as “Democrat”.
People like that infuriate me. They go around demanding that elected officials represent THEIR interests, totally discounting the interests and opinions of everybody in that state or district who disagrees with their position. Whether you are pro or anti insurance company welfare act of 2010, pretending that they represent the only valid opinion is about as unAmerican as it gets. I got into a big argument with a couple of right wingers at the Austin American Statesman site during August and they never even attempted to answer when I asked why they were more worthy of representation than I was.
You’ve got to hand it to Republicans. They managed to get legislation passed that they should absolutely LOVE, without a single one having to vote for it so Democrats will have to suffer all the backlash.
All this teabagger protesting was just their version of “Please don’t throw us in that briar patch.”
Nay
And market regulation, don’t forget. They gotta fix that first. The rich aren’t getting enough of the pie!
A-mazing ,no?
Yep, the Republican failure was pretty spectacular. I wish I could have enjoyed it while being thrown under the bus
ditto
I’ve got to disagree slightly with you on the move left comment. He’ll move left, but only because that’s part of the shag. The giant sales job is just beginning today.
I’m sure Republicans would just LOVE it if we all followed that advice.
That’s easy to say if you have options besides Republicans and Democrats. I’m certainly not going to just hand everything over to Republicans.
That doesn’t mean Democrats will enjoy my enthusiastic support either though.
Completely unwarranted revisionist history.
I heard that the bill allows parents with insurance to keep their children on their policy to age 28? If so, that might help some. Supposedly effective immediately.
Also funds more public affordable fee clinics based on income; i.e. free if no income.
Thanks Jon, for posting your assessment of What to Do Now. It’s important to concentrate on this instead of groveling in defeat or bitterness.
I just “un-fanned” the rejoicing Planned Parenthood on Facebook, but there are women there who are talking about starting free, independent abortion clinics so that poor women will not be left out in the cold. I suggested we start free or donation-based, full-service clinics which would not take insurance monies. That kind of blew others away, because they think that all other services will be covered by this new bill. For those who would refuse to buy this mandated insurance (and therefore incur the IRS fine), the free clinics would be there. This is another thing we can work on together.
Oh well, on to the next adventure! Bomb Iran! That seems to be the MSM gist today.
Thank goodness for Jane’s strength standing up to the attacks.
It’s too funny; over at Hullaballoo, Digby, this morning, all chortle and apple-pie, put up an op-ed piece by David Frum that supports the fiction that the democrats are really in good shape with this “win”. (She doesn’t trouble herself to tell people that Frum was a BushCo speechwriter…)
As part of his wizard-like credentials, Frum recently wrote, in “The Week” magazine:
“If (Iraq) does rise out of the ashes, George W. Bush will deserve full credit. In 2003, Bush pledged to build a democratic Iraq that would be “an inspiring example of freedom for other nations in the region.”
After a long, painful, struggle, his vision is being realized. That is “a remarkable achievement.”
To which I would add: the notion that Jeffersonian Democracy is going to flourish in what used to be Iraq, without a large chunk of our military there to TRY to protect it, and without astronomical amounts of our money to bribe, wheedle, and corrupt, is so ridiculous than anyone pimping it deserves nothing but hoots of derision.
In this case, she is also posting all of the Beck/Limbaugh/Repuke talking points about socialist and the “controversial” deem and pass (which they didn’t use anyway). It is really hard to keep quiet. I did comment that deem and pass is not controversial, that it has been used by both parties, but have restrained myself since then.
What I wanted to say is that if she would get her news from somewhere besides Fox, she’d be better informed.
Interesting comment:
No, goodkind. I strongly disagree. On the contrary, no bill would’ve been better than this dangerous disaster of a bill.
Actually that’s been demonstrated scientifically over and over.
Interesting that the people who supported this monstrosity are accusing us of being or working with right wingers while they are quoting them.
Are you kidding, tanbark??
No way will Obama move leftward, especially given the lack of accountability on the part of politicians today.
This is a person who was all excited about a trip to that creation museum. I think it’s probably better simply to refrain, although today I am tempted to post that Joe Donnelly represents me, too. Except, of course, that he was part of the “Stupak block” which certainly isn’t my view.
After all, I do have to work with her frequently, and as long as we stay away from politics and religion, we do fine.
Actually, that’s good strategy, except voters should ignore anyone with an (I) behind their name. It doesn’t stand for Independent; it stands for Incumbent.
Here’s Grayson, johnny-on-the-spot:
http://www.wewantmedicare.com
http://salsa.mydccc.org/o/30019/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=17
Already over 45,000 have signed it.
I still am not sure that these things do much good, but I sign ‘em anyway
If Obama were to invade Iran tomorrow I wonder how many Obamabots will be first in line at the recruiting office?
You just made me think of another (perhaps) unintended consequence of this POS bill: what if, now that everyone theoretically can get “insurance,” will the services that are currently free or on a sliding scale still be there? I’m talking about all kinds of clinics, not just those that provide abortions. Many of these types of clinics have both government and private funding. Are they addressed in this bill? Will private donors still be interested in donating, if they think that everyone’s “covered” now? I honestly have no idea about this, I wonder if anyone else out there does?
Does this sound familiar?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/19/AR2010031902636.html
Like the way the members of the Bush family lined up to serve in both of the Decider’s wars?
I guess no one is supposed to remember that the Republics created the largest deficits in history when they had complete power.
We’ll have to. Iran wants to build nuclear power plants, btw, we need more nuclear power plants in the US. Go cognitive dissonance Obomba!
I doubt very many at all. My prediction is that they will be chickenhawks just like their Bushbot cousins.
By already selling it as a “victory for civil rights” they have already moved to the left. When you don’t get on board to vote D, KOS will be in full force again “hinting” that, you know, racism is alive and well in American. They use this against the left and right, but it works so much better against the left. It is the guilt trip of all guilt trips and they know it works.
Probably a good idea. Friendships are sometimes irrevocably lost over this kind of thing, esp when feelings are this volatile.
I’m just now recovering my friendship ( sorta) with my brother after the Bush years divisiveness
Well, Sufi, you put your finger on it.
Which will be more effective at furthering progressive change?
Sticking with Obama while he protects the status-quo and even ratchets up some of Bush’s mistakes (See: Afghanistan) or trying to extract some instructional use for other “centrist” democratic pawnbrokers, by pulling our support for him and letting the repubs re-inherit all the fuckups they’ve created (and with which Obama seems perfectly comfortable…).
At this point, I think the mistake we made was believing that things had gotten so bad that Joe and Jane six-pack would turn the assholes out of office and put someone in who use those big margins like sledge-hammers as they went about the “no more bullshit!” salvage operation.
The first part of the expectation was met; we DID get the turnouts and the landslide, but the beltway dems with whom Obama instantly began going soixante-neuf, just weren’t scared enough get off the lobbyist sugar-tit, and Emmanuel, with the clear approval of Mr. Centrist, set about the task of defining progressives as “fucking retards” with far more zeal than he had for going after the people who’ve nearly ruined us.
Disheartening, to say the least.
Angryfying, to speak the truth.
Alan Grayson has praised the HCR bill, but I’ll be watching him, and Howard Dean, and a few others, in the hope that the more politically vulnerable Obama becomes (and boy-howdy is he going to be that…) the more attractive a challenge to him on a real, specific, progressive platform, will become.
It aint rocket science:
Word, Mr. Centrist: if you won’t take down those spinning plates that you inherited from George Bush, then, when they start falling, a lot of democrats (and the independents who voted for you in 2008…) will be looking for someone with the political moxie and integrity, to do it.
See you at the mid-terms? Or not.
But that was a tax, and social security was social insurance. Look, I don’t think this bill will be repealed. I do think it will eventually be replaced by a national health care system, but this isn’t social security.
That’s for sure. Working on liberal guilt always stops a conversation. Just say “racist” and it’s over
I see the Abortion issue becoming a legal challenge, possibly at the Supreme Court level.
how the gov’t can mandate a woman to buy insurance then deny her the ability to use it for a legal medical procedure is a constitutional violation of rights.
I don’t know either. But I think that would be a serious free speech offense to disallow doctors to decide whether they want to accept insurance or not. Some of the best doctors do not accept health insurance, and they can charge what they please (and bargain with their patients at will) and still make a good living. I know a doctor who refuses to play the insurance game and opts out. Hopefully these doctors fight the good fight. If their freedoms are taken away, there’s always the back alley…
Again, David Frum was a bushCo speechwriter, who pimped for, and is STILL pimping for, the loon-crusade in Iraq.
I think the clarity of his thought processes are suspect.
No, everyone is not covered–depending upon the number of uninsured they quote. I have asked many times and never received and answer. How will they determine who will be insured and who will not since it won’t cover everyone? Can those that don’t want to be insured get in a pool to draw for the uninsured spots?
Yes, and I wonder if the Supreme Court will use this opportunity to strike Roe V. Wade.
Still don’t talk to my sister-in-law and lost a friendship of 30 years over this. You are definitely on the right track. Wish I could learn to close my pie hole.
Republics will try to keep that from happening because they love the abortion status quo. It is a guaranteed election year issue that they love to use and never have any intention of actually changing. They had complete power during most of the Decider’s years and did zero.
Hmmmm…. 2000-plus pages and they can’t get language in there about competition. Think someone sold out somewhere? I wonder, don’t you?
The Democrats are the piss that “sets” the cloth.
The Romans built dye shops with vats outside that served as free public toilets. Not only did they act as your basic “rest area” for passersby, but the urine was used to “set” cloth that had been recently dyed – the same way that vinegar is sometimes used today with natural dyes.
So too the Democratic Party. Since FDR, the move of the Democratic Party toward Social Democracy was stillborn; a casualty of McCarthyism which was as much a Democratic Party invention as it was anyone else’s. The old coalition, such as it was, essentially fell apart under Kennedy and LBJ. Since Nixon, the “modern” form of the two party system has emerged.
Each Republican president dyes the political fabric a deeper shade of reactionary brown, and each succeeding Democratic president pisses on the new shade to set the color. Thus with Carter, Clinton, and now, Obama.
All of it is maintained through the ambiguity of middle-classdom and the rest, but people can be forgiven for thinking that the shirts are increasingly brown, all talk not withstanding, and that the whole scheme reeks of piss.
Of course the Romans used various scents to mask the process. Our assholes call it the smell of success and don’t even bother with perfumes.
Bad legislation is legislation which fails to adequately redress whatever grievance or controversy which lead to the call for reform. Bad legislation entrenches into the system processes and mechanisms and attitudes designed to sustain its failures. When the grievances or controversies left to fester eventually resurface, not only must those issues be addressed, but all the processes and mechanisms entrenching bad legislation within the system must also be confronted. This usually results in more bad legislation concentrating on the processes and mechanisms while failing, again, to adequately address the need for reform.
What has been proposed by Obama, Reid, and now Pelosi, is not healthcare reform, it’s health insurance reform. It’s legislation written by the health insurance industry to sustain industry rationing of healthcare based on economic class, race, gender and age.
It’s all a cynical deceit.
Did you see the shit Pelosi et all pulled yesterday to “fight their way” into the House. Linked arms and “marched” to the “finish line”. Let it all begin again.
This Supreme Court will rule that only corporations will be allowed abortion rights.
Good question. There are lots of unanswered questions and I think they will try to keep it that way as long as possible. Because most of the answers are not satisfactory ones.
ERISA WAIVERS
State single payers all that matter.
MPLO @ 55:
“Are you kidding, tanbark?”
I sure was. The idea that Obama, faced with a mid-term reversal of historic proportions of a landslide win just two years prior, is going to actually become more progressive, is, of course, the stuff of idiocy.
Of course, there is the thought that is popping up more and more often:
that he and the dems will welcome a repub tsunami, since it will effectively end whatever chances we had for a real salvage operation, and will let Mr. Centrist and the democratic jellyfish herd off the hook for mounting one.
As this point, Obama, Reid, Pelosi, etc., look to me as if they would be greatly relieved to be one-legged ducks for the next two years.
God’s in his heaven; the lobbyists are on K Street; and things really aren’t so bad, after all.
Me too. I got in a Facebook comments war with my brother-in-law, who insisted that the fire department would get all fucked up if we let the government have control of it. That was back in the summer; I talked to my sister last month and she said he was “ready for another Tea Party.” They own a small business and are absolute masters at voting against their own interests. I am always one wisecrack away from breaking up with them.
And that will continue until 2014 when the legislation goes into effect. After that we can count on millions of bankruptcies of the 30 million people who will be forced to purchase insurance. Even with subsidies which have been significantly reduced in the bill that passed the House.
This bill is a payoff to the health insurance industry. The law demands that all citizens buy health insurance, no matter how rotten and it provides payment for 30 million plus people who can afford no health insurance. That is right, the tax payer will pay for over 30 million private policies, no matter how lousy. Well, if you had any doubt, we live not in a democracy but in a corporate state where the corporations which are not citizens are effectively part of the government and have vastly more power and influence than citizens.As for working people, they are swamped by the power of the great private bureaucracies that run the economy and get funds directly from the taxes that are collected from everyone without the corporate prerogatives to avoid them
Assuming that these are the proper goals to fix this pig with lipstick who are the politicians that recently capitulated and yet are best suited to go in and force the Obama administration to give up some of their hard fought gains? Pay (bribe) someone like Kucinich if he offers to keep his promises this time? What possible group of people that caved this time can be expected to spend the time and effort to defeat some part of what Obama and his supporters now claim is the perfect proof of a functional government?
Rhetorical questions all. The winners here proven that they could give progressives nothing but empty promises and still win the day. The big change that this brought was in how the Democratic party functions going forward.
Whatdoiknow:
Same here. Huge falling out with two old friends who are longtime democrats. They were shitting green nickels at how ineffective Obama and the democrats have been. They’d practically have suppported the passage of a bill putting George Bush on Mt. Rushmore, if it would mean that O. and the dems could get a “win” with it.
That is not a productive strategy to address the 6 points Jon addresses in this post.
I hear your point but it is not a productive avenue to continue on in terms of fixing health care.
I’ve got some swampland I’ll throw in.
Obama knows that drill well. He campaigned for two years as a progressive Democrat. The difference this time will be the left of the left (i.e. the “f#cking ret@rds”) have wised up to his act. We are better off with properly labeled Republicans than phony Democrats. Having the MSM label this horrible bill “liberal” sets back our cause immeasurably.
I doubt they would. I once read an opinion piece that stated that Clinton ended up governing more conservatively than Nixon did. I believe I agree with that — and there doesn’t seem to be much doubt that Obama is to the right of Clinton. It’s disturbing that this brand of “conservatism” seems to be more about shifting wealth to a small group than any real belief in principles.
Everybody got something, except for the retarded lefties.
Sorry that this is causing such a divide with friends and families but somehow reassured that I am not the only one having these problems. I see so many who can handle this situation with dignity and calm–but no—not me–for some reason I have to tell it like it is—or at lease how I think it is. After the heat of the moment I always wonder why I couldn’t keep my mouth shut because it seems everyone’s opinions are set in stone and it does no good to try to defend a position.
How do we fix this hen we are cutting Medicare? Does anyone know if Medicare services will be broadened to include whatever it was that made people feel like buying Medicare Advantage?
I agree. For the mid-terms people need to be made aware of the bills deficiencies, and be shown that they’re there because of the Republican BS. The outright lying got a lot of traction during the town hall meeting period and the media didn’t do much to correct facts. That we’re at this point and people still believe pure BS is beyond ridiculous. Without a doubt though, “conservative” Dems need to be replaced with better candidates if they’re available.
I think free clinics are an outstanding idea. What if that was connected to an explicit political message as well: “We (whoever forms the clinics) will help you, when neither the Republicans or the Democrats wanted to do anything but take your money and give you grief in exchange?”
Health insurance and hospital stocks are UP this a.m…
Many primary filing deadlines have passed. And “Democrat” is meaningless. For that matter so is this supposed two-party system. Anybody who votes in November with the expectation that anything will get better – no matter who you vote for – is in serious denial.
Hope A Dope Obama Style.
ObamaCare more like Insurance Welfare passes now the fun begins
David Axelrod, Robert Gibbs, are hoping and praying that people believe that Obama is a Democrat after his Republican Health Care Bill.
Republican are great actors themselves, it is funny how the party of we hate taxes, never attack all the tax increases in the Obama Republican Insurance Welfare Bill. If Republican wanted to kill their Health Care/Insurance Welfare Bill they could have months ago, all they had to do is talk about the Tax Increases. (Lawrence O-Donnell brought this up this morning on Morning Joe, makes you wonder why Lawrence O-Donnell did not bring this up like Month ago on Countdown, more Kabuki Theatre here.)
MSNBC ratings are going to drop like rock, if they keep trying to capture NEO-LIBERAL viewers. So I expect MSNBC to make a sharp turn back to the left. See MSNBC understands that only hard core Liberals really watch Keith, Rachel, Ed, Chris, etc. because the average american is probably watching CSI, American Idol, Basketball, etc.. MSNBC knows that playing to the NEO-Liberal base of viewers will put them out of business, so with the Insurance Wel-Fare Bill passing they can now go back acting like a Liberal news cast. (More Kabuki Theatre)
the Phony House Dems and Senate Dems will have to run campaigns against the Left and Right. See Jane, Glenn Greenwald, Michael Moore, and others exposed them as frauds. I expect the phony dems in congress to tell people they never knew what was in the OBAMA Health Care Scam.
Yes the Phony Dems are going to do a Reagan, they will deny knowing anything about OBAMACARE.
Daily Kos, MoveOn.org, Union leaders, and others phony progressive organizations, will make a turn back to left, until the next Neo-Liberal agenda comes to life. Once the masses find out the truth about this health care scam Obama just championed, all hell is going to break loose. It already is, hell is on the way to washington DC.
FDL, Bold Progressives, Common Dreams, membership should increase dramatically, because they are real progressives Blog sites, and you just cannot beat the real thing.
It IS a LOT worse than nothing!
Even better, I agree.
AARP—surprise—will offer something like Advantage. I do hope one part of the bill does work and that is cking out and stopping all the fraud in Medicaid and Medicare. Maybe they can save enough money to keep it afloat a few more years.
This bill is not what I wanted by far. But to say there is nothing good about it is not right either. Putting children up to 26 years old on your insurance is a good thing. Stopping recisions is a good thing. Stopping pre existing conditions is a good thing. Stopping annual and life-time caps is a good thing. Closing the medicare do-nut hole is a good thing. Maybe Medicaid is expanded which would be a very good thing and a step toward single-payer (I don’t know yet because I haven’t been able to read much about the Medicaid provisions).
Mandates are a very bad thing and the very worst thing in this bill but I think they will be held up in the courts for awhile and there is a good chance they will be proven to be unconstitutional. If mandates are determined to be unconstitutional, then it the bill really is health insurance reform.
But it is not health care reform. And the really bad thing about this bill, is that with the mandates, it greatly strengthens the insurance companies hands around our throat.
I wanna know where all this Medicare “fraud” is.
Once AARP found out how lucrative health insurance was they made that their primary focus. Fuck them too.
Last time I looked, the government does control the fire department, unless it is an all-volunteer department.
None of it matters. Rethugs will maul Dems in the fall and the majority of this “reform” will never see the light of day.
Basically like the emergency rooms we have now. Except it will be in the mission statement.
With all due respect, Jon, if we haven’t been able to alter healthcare legislation up to this point, after all the effort we all have put forth, through organizing, phoning, emailing and and using our blogosphere megaphones, what will we achieve through these same methods at this point?
The Dems are saying they will revisit the issues you list, but these are the issues that progressives have fought for tooth and nail, over the last 14 months, and we have been defeated resoundingly.
Now Congress and the White House will move on to the next issues on their agenda, probably finance reform and some anemic efforts on jobs, where the corporations will again dictate every word of the legislation.
It’s unrealistic to think there will be any appetite for passing the “fixes” you propose. It’s all over now, baby blue.
It’s fine to maintain a positive attitude, but is what you are proposing we spend our efforts trying to do even realistic at this point?
Back in the fall, I had a brief falling out with my sister, who claimed that Obama is the best president in her lifetime (she is 62) and branded me a left wingnut.
I wonder if she’s changed her tune any in the past 6 months?
Were going to have 16000 new IRS Agents to enforce the new health insurance mandates.
Not necessarily…
Jake, I agree.
What’s so disgusting is that everyone knew that the republicans were going to be…republicans…they weren’t going to admit to a scintilla of responsibility for practically ruining us, and they would use what power they had left to try to stop Obama and the democrats from salvaging something from 8 years of their arrogant, bloody, stupidity. And there’s the rub: they had, and still have, relatively little power.
That Obama would come into office “reaching out” to these assholes when he had the congressional margins to shove the change we so desperately need, right down their throats, was stunning, to me. Appalling is not too strong a word.
Now, some progressives are joining the:
“Vote for us; we’re not as bad as the republicans!” bandwagon.
It’s a prescription for political suicide, with the voters.
Over at Digby’s she’s making a career out of dragging the outrageous rightwing gibberish across Obama’s trail like a stinking red-herring. Enough of her posters have finally made her leery of her attempts to use Sarah Palin’s idiocy to try to avoid talking about Obama’s feckless shit, that, at least for now, we don’t hear about Palin, every third thread over there.
Palin and her ilk ARE ignorant, callous, human beings, but they are not our problem. That problem is the democratic “leadership”, from Obama on down. Just now, we don’t need to be talking about the republicans so much. Despite Obama’s re-habbing them into “the loyal opposition”, instead of hammering them as obstructionist assholes, 24-7, they are still politically irrelevant to the chance that he has. If he’s happy with all of the hoopla about his “win” on this, think what he could get by stripping that anti-trust exemption from the health insurance mafia?
How about an FDR-style jobs program that didn’t involve giving the money to the fatcats and then sitting back to see how much of it trickled down?
It’s clear that O. and the dems will be just as conservative and just as driven by the old corporate ethic of what’s good for Goldman Sachs, etc., is good for amurka, as we let them be, and that’s why I’m not going to support these centrist sellouts any longer. I’ll go you one better: it’s why I will welcome the voters sticking it to them in the mid-terms at a level that will make Massachusetts look like a love-tap. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of bi-partisans.
Took a look and didn’t see the “chortle and apple-pie”.
Whatdoiknow; I admit, I’m not dignified and calm at all. I’m thoroughly pissed. Obama had an opportunity to do some things that would have helped american and the world, immensely. Instead, it’s been bidness as usual.
Old story; if you’re not angry, you’re not paying attention.
“For the mid-terms people need to be made aware of the bills deficiencies, and be shown that they’re there because of the Republican BS.”
Nevermind the first party at the negotiating (snark) table was AHIP.
Nevermind the progressive caucus got steam-rolled.
Nevermind Stupak got an EO and the women’s caucus got shafted.
Nevermind the insurance cartel got 30 million more poor serfs to contribute to their rising stock and 11 million dollar average CEO salaries.
Nevermind Insurance is not Healthcare.
Nevermind copays and deductables will prevent people from using their insurance.
Keep selling it buddy. I’m not buying and am itching to pull the lever in November.
Voting for this Bill will strengthen hands of Dem voters around the throats of the Phony Dems in Congress.
The only reason this Bill Pass was the Deceptive name given to it, “Health Care Reform” once the masses learn that this Bill has nothing to do with Health Care Reform, there will be BLOOD.
Come November, all the talk will be centered around killing this Bill, to maintain order in the USA. The TEA PARTY is going to EXPLODE! and the Left is going to sit back and watch, because it is not their Bill.
First step to addressing a problem is to make sure every acknowledges there is a problem.
Another Great artical by Chris Hedges link below.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/the_health_care_hindenburg_has_landed_20100322/
MoveOn.org, better find there way back to left quickly, or their new name will be DEMSOLDOUT.org
I’m not under any illusions that anything will change much with any one election. I think it’s a never ending process. Do you really believe things will never get better? You are right though that ““Democrat” is meaningless.” I can imagine Republicans I’d prefer to some Democrats. The object is to get better elected officials, and hold the feet of the ones we have to the fire until we get better legislation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/ny-times-reporter-confirm_b_500999.html
And hey, everyone – a whole hell of a lot of brown people, legal ones included, are in a familiar position. Under the bus. Only, this time they are about to get run over. Chin -
THERE IS A PROBLEM. It will be interesting to see turnout counts in November. This liberal will sit this cycle out since there’s no time. If this appears to be an over reaction to some, tough. Not an easy decision for a party faithful member since 68. I’ve seen enough in the last 14 months.
I, for one, would like to see a check off, rather like the campaign funding checkoff, to provide free on demand abortions.
Badwater, scroll down and read “The Finish Line” thread, where she’s sighing with relief and congratulating the democrats and the president…and then go down a bit more and read “The Republican Waterloo”, where Digby puts up part of David Frum’s piece about how badly the democrats kicked republican butt on the HCR bill.
http://www.digbysblog.blogspot.com/
Again, Frum is not that well known, and Digby didn’t bother to tell people that their take on Frum’s assessment should include the fact that Frum was a speechwriter for George Bush and that he supported, and still supports, the invasion and “liberation” of Iraq.
The idea of any progressive blogger putting up an op-ed piece by a former Bush speechwriter in which the writer is talking about a huge democratic win with from a bill that is as user-friendly to the healthcare robber barons as this one, and not heaping scorn on it, is ridiculous on the face of it.
Progressive flop-sweat smells even worse than conservative.
Taos John @ 99:
“Health insurance and hospital stocks are up this morning.”
Bingo.
We really don’t need to know a hell of a lot more. With the obscene amounts of money that are being made off of sickness and ageing in america, they could afford, and we badly needed, a reform bill that would have had Wall Street shitting green nickels.
No kidding. This was in the context of a conversation about “government takeover of healthcare” and once I realized that he honestly did not know that the fire department was run by local government, I just gave up.
Just what do you think I’m selling? You’re “not buying and am itching to pull the lever.” For what? I’m going to guess you’ll have a choice between candidates who will either promise to roll back and dismantle this legislation, or promise to keep it and work to improve it.
It’s a cup half empty or half full type of situation isn’t it? The bill has some good in it but it’s also pretty rotten at it’s core as well. As for the political after effects who knows? Red Chinese PM Jo En Li was once asked what he thought about the French Revolution and he replied , “The Jury is still out on that one.” I think we’ll be hearing the same thing about this so called reform 10 yrs from now, maybe.
Within our current
two-party systemoligarchy, with the addition of even more corporate dollars per Citizens United? Yes, if we keep hoping to elect “better” representatives under these circumstances, I really believe things will never get better.“A stunning number thinks there are cost controls in this horrid bill …”
Yes, it’s amazing. Obama has found the magic. Make big, lofty, progressive-sounding speeches promising something, that will be widely heard and everyone will remember. Then kill the promises with a thousand cuts, no single one of which will be remembered by anyone (almost). I don’t know when people will learn to not listen to speeches (hot air). Any cost-control measures promised in this horrid bill will never, ever see the light of day.
I’m trying to scrape together the next payment, to my bankruptcy atty., right now. Employment isn’t expected to improve for 5-10 years. I don’t expect the IRS to have any more leverage over me, in 4 years, than they do now: none.
Even if I’m able, I won’t be forced to purchase a crappy product the producer has every incentive not to allow me to use. Fuck the mandate.
Also, note to whom the president says Congress sent a message:
Where are the self-sovereign citizens? What do we deserve? Apparently, it’s the Servants Quarters, for us, here on Plantation America.
And in the second paragraph, the president is jacking us with what many of us here surely recognize as blatant myth-making. Pushed back against special interests? Puhleeze.
This has been another presentation of Jacking America, brought to you by myths preached from The Bully Pulpit, sponsored by Very Special Interests.
I don’t know the legality of it, but, our general practice doctor, in an effort to shuck off the “insurance paper nightmare” and spend more time with each patient, has gone to something called a “concierge service”, where, for the (steep) price of one complete physical per year, he (along with another) provide 24/7, on-call doctor services year around (no further charges). In addition to newsletters and open health topic meetings, they organize outdoor athletic type activities, all covered by the price of the physical.
IANAL or even very good with financial stuff, but, it seems he could include an abortion doctor in his group, truthfully saying any insurance involvement goes to the physical, essentially providing “free”, non-profit abortion services.
The non-choice people seem to have won a temporary “victory” without realizing that there will now be more third term abortions, by coat-hanger, ignoring cogent doctor advise (like Palin’s attempt to have a “natural abortion” with Trig) or simply trying to induce abortion in some other, toxic manner. Good show to the moral cretins who (hopefully, unintentionally) engineered this.
I disagree. My guess is jobs or the lack there of will be the issue this fall , not HCR. For now we all have to wait to see how this plays out. The Dems. have slammed their hand on the table and its a pair of jokers, but as we’ve seen so many times in the past the public is very slow to wake up to the fact that they’ve been bamboozled and Obamarahma knows this. Look for referendum this fall on the economy not this because the effects of this will take yrs. to unwind and be felt.
seaglass, you are not going to have to wait 10 years on this Health Care Reform scam falling a part.
the key to keeping a lie a live, like the Obama Health Care Bill, is keeping it away from the truth, once the lie meets truth, the lie dies.
especially in this polical climate, is the right going to fight for the OBAMACARE lie? No, is the left going to fight for the OBAMACARE lie? No
Your post echoed the reasons I was opposed to this bill.
It is political suicide to have a mandate, without giving Americans options other than private insurers.
Additionally, defeating the drug re-importation bill exposed the Obama ties to big pharma. Now that there is evidence of that meeting out there, how long before the GOP uses it to tarnish the man.
We have a long, long way to go on this.
How can anyone not know who pays their local fire dept? Is this person aware of the fact that the sun rises in the east?
Oh it does wonders for his campaign coffers I imagine. His Kabuki is quite good. He voted for the abomination of HCR but still wants to look like he isnt a corporate whore.
Carolyn, I am always partial to reality than the Disney version of events. Very well said. Here, have a miniature American flag, ma’am!
The die is cast. I think we should all start gearing up for the Social Security fight that is coming down the highway. Will no doubt be just as stupid as the health care battle. Only upside was the death panels I installed on my roof saved me $2k on electricity.
It always seems to be an uphill battle, but how do we change these “circumstances?”
Agree—-
I wouldn’t bet on it. Willful ignorance is pretty trendy right now among those who aspire to be members of the owning class. The person in question is the same age as me, so they still taught civics when he was in school. He probably just wasn’t listening. And now it’s much easier (and more fashionable) to just put on a silly hat, draw up an inarticulate sign and spew some nonsense than to educate yourself about what’s really happening
Hi Jon
Referring to your points about cost control,
“1) Lack of Real Cost Control
This bill does not create real cost control and will not bring down premiums for most Americans.”
I agree that is a problem.
“Congress and state legislatures need to adopt real cost control measures like: drug re-importation, Medicare direct drug price negotiation, a public insurance option, Medicare buy-in, or a central provider reimbursement negotiator (all-payer system).”
I have taught Systems Engineering for years here in Massachusetts. For me, this is a systems problem. My issue with your proposed solutions is that I do not see how price caps negotiated by the government will reduce cost in the long term. GM and Ford did this approach with its suppliers where they mandated price fixes and drove their supplier base and Delphi for GM) and Visteon for Ford into bankruptcy. Deval Patrick is attempting to do price caps in Massachusetts. I teach that the way to reduce cost is to reduce the causes of cost to meet a target market price. If a service cost $20 and the government/Ford/GM mandates $15, either the service will go away, or the quality will diminish to meet the mandated price. I have taught Enterprise Engineers that the goal is to design and engineer systems to reduce cost by eliminating waste while at the same time meeting customer needs. You may have heard of the concept it is call Lean Enterprise Engineering?
Second, do you think that free markets reduce cost? I think they do. The Auto business is a very good example – the producer/manufacturer that provides the highest quality, lowest cost, most reliable and most innovation in terms of option content wins. Is a single payer system going to lead to socialized medicine and a one-size, fits all health care system? If single payer is a good idea, why is it a good idea?
But first of all, do you believe that government can not reduce cost through mandate as I suggest — that cost can only be reduced by reducing the causes of cost and waste that are in a system?
I see so far that you are one of the few sites that has any objectivity about this debate at all. I am very tired of the Red team vs Blue team mentality and would like a thoughtful discussion with you all. Thanks.
Excellent proposal. How can we make this into a county-wide, state-wide, nation-wide movement? Can we build a sustained movement to make this a reality? “Self-help is the best help.”
I wish I knew. Another couple years of this economy may create a situation in which people have so little to lose that they’re willing to do a general strike and/or get out in the streets. I believe it will take a full-blown revolution of some sort, hopefully not a violent one. I’d love to support third party candidates but I don’t know how we compete against the corporations, especially when so many of us are unemployed. I think we are going to see a combination of apathy and unrest and then we’ll see what our fellow citizens are made of, and whether they are willing to be serfs for the rest of their lives.
I would call this a classic case of No Pain, No Gain. Not to even remotely suggest any possibility of any gain for anyone but corporate interests in this monstrosity of a soon-to-be law. But, rather, that so many working-class people will suffer so much pain as a result of its passage that they may – just may – possibly wake up and smell the two-party flim-flam. Yes, the Dems will probably be out come November and the Repubs back in – but the parties understand this is simply part of the game. They have to be willing to make sacrifices so the people never discover that they work exclusively for the corporations. Of course, the big variable here is just how much pain is needed for enough people to finally realize they have been sold out lock, stock and barrel to corporate interests. This health care reform just may do it, though.
“Only upside was the death panels I installed on my roof saved me $2K on electricity.”
Jake: Best coffee-spew of the week. :o)
seaglass,
Passing a bill that 54% of the USA hates, is not smart.
The only issue in the USA has been Jobs.
The OBAMA Hope a Dope is all about maintaining the Status Quo.
The KABUKI here, is any smart president would have talk about Jobs for the last 12 months, why did Obama go anti FDR? because Obama is playing for the other team.
The Corporate Elites always hate and fear Progressives, so they came up with a simple an effective strategy to keep Progressives out of power.
Obama talks like a progressives governs like a republican is step one (Bush, John McCain, would have done 90% of what Obama has done)
step 2 is happening now, pissed off the Progressive Base which is the majority of the USA and hope they stay home in 2010 during the mid-terms.(you don’t find many conservatives in the un-employment line)
step 3 Obama gets to act like a progressive president running against a GOP congress in 2011. (key word Obama acts like a progressive)
step 4 All of the Bad stuff in this Bill happen in 2014, this keeps a progressive President from winning in 2016.
THE BIG PROBLEM NOW!!!
Jane, Gleen Greenwald, Chris Hedges, others have learned about this evil plot to keep Progressives out of Power.
The other BIG PROBLEM is tea party movement, these people are not for the STATUS QUO
OBAMARAHMA think it is 1994, this is not the LEFT of 1994, the games they played than will not work now,
When DAVID Axelrod, David Plouffe, Robert Gibbs, sit around the table now, they will have a new set of enemies, not just the GOP to deal with.
Fooling the GOP base is easy, and safe, fooling your own base is not a good idea.
Clint Eastwood said it best, Don’t Piss on Back and tell me it is Raining.
And the propaganda campaign begins:
Health reform and you: A new guide
Who pays? Who benefits? And what about those in between?
Read more: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/34609984/ns/health-health_care/#ixzz0ivBjP75i
Written by our “friends” at Kaiser. Clearly, THEY didn’t read the Senate Bill either.
Oh, that’s all that needs fixing?
Wtf was the point of passing this pos in the first place? It accomplishes next to none of the goals of hcr, it does badly what little it does accomplish, and in many ways it a step in the wrong direction.
Jon’s emphasis on going from what we got – shit – is obviously the best thing we can do going forward, but no one should have any delusions about who our allies are.
I won’t be signing any more Weiner petitions, Grayson petitions or Bennet letters. HCAN can go to h***.
The PCCC proved itself. DFA has done well overall. Howard Dean is still a leader in my book.
Digby and all of the others that read the exhortations of people like Frum don’t seem to believe that they are being played. Telling the faithful that they need more money and greater efforts after having fought the good fight has been a money making strategy for Rs for an awful long time. There are plenty of examples, including nearly every previous election, where the conservatives, including Bush, said that they needed more resources to defend the right from the liberal horde.
The problem for the Ds who caved is that instead of saying they fought the good fight they have to settle for defending, once again, giving up in order to help conservative part of the team show that they could win.
Todays movie starring Frum in the role of Briar Rabbit.
“We have a long, long, way to go on this.”
True.
Now: since Mr. Progressive stands revealed as Mr. I’m-hineylicking-BlueCross-BlueShield “Centrist”, how many Friedman’s do you think that it will take to (for example) fix this wondrous example of humanist healthcare reform?
Talking Points Memo is just as bad. All these posts from Marshall about the “crazy” Republicans. They.Don’t.Matter. I’m not going for the Pavlov’s dog bit anymore about the Teabaggers walking around with Kleenex boxes for shoes at their gun toting rage orgies….not our problem. No reason the GOP or their crazy cousins should have anything to do with stopping the Dems from fixing the problems Obama spent his entire campaign talking about.
As we’ve learned from this entire hell mess….you don’t acquire power unless you are willing to walk away. 2010 and 2012 is when progressives walk away. We’ll hand them a dustpan and broom.
For me, this bill utterly exposed the democratic party as slaves to their corporate masters.
I feel I have ZERO representation with the dems.
And, I am leaving the party. It is clear that they can’t or won’t do their constituents bidding.
Third Party time.
look around the world. Drug re-importation brings down cost. Look at Medicare compared to private insurance. roughly 30% cheaper.
Anyone who objects to the “Individual mandate” should realize that that’s exactly what “single payer” really is. Its the individual mandate writ large, where everyone’s taxes go up to make sure everyone’s medical care is covered. And yes, young healthy people pay the same proportion of their income for health care as do old sick people.
Amazing! I would like a doctor like this.
My grandfather was a lawyer in a small town and he would barter with clients who couldn’t afford his fees: law services for chickens or crops (or whatever else they had on hand). I think doctors also made house calls and would accept bartered fees as well.
Also, so many ailments can be healed with herbal and natural remedies as well as other therapies. We need to keep doctors’ visits down by educating ourselves as to self-care. Free clinics should embrace these inexpensive treatments to keep their costs down as well.
John Walker – thank you for this article. Could’ve used it before the vote…
Of course it is, Klynn. Why would anyone believe incumbent Dems will reverse themselves & approve significant HCR. HealthCare Industry won, American people lost, NEXT!
Good post, ‘Fate.
I’m not sure about Digby’s motives. For the time being, I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt and just put her in the “scared shitless” column, about Obama’s failure to get much of anything done, despite all of the clout that he came in with.
Having said that, her tactic of seizing on the most outrageous nonsense from Palin and the Teabaggers, etc., instead of talking about the reality of what Obama is doing and not doing, is dishonest, to say the least. Ignoring his and the dems willingness to protect the status quo and to keep throwing progressives under the bus is simply a gilt-edged invitation for the to continue the sellout. She needs to stop doing it.
What’s heartening is that so many of her regulars are starting to give her shit about it.
For my 2C, I’m not afraid. Ultimately, I trust the voters. We may be slow to pick up on stuff, almost to the point of ruination, but given the chance, americans can change. Hey; it’s what happened in 2008.
We didn’t fail Obama and the democrats; they’re failing us. I think it’s ridiculous to reward them for doing it by staying with them. In fact, at this point, I don’t think I’m capable of holding my nose and voting, anymore.
“As we’ve learned from this entire hell mess….you don’t acquire power unless you are willing to walk away. 2010 and 2012 is when progressives walk away. We’ll hand them a dustpan and broom.”
Dangerous thinking… You really think Obama is like the republicans? Then you were asleep for the last 10 years and the first year and a half of Obama’s administration…
I’m with you, CarolynC.
As far as this HC bill goes I think you’re right that the economy will be the thing that drives further changes. Due to problems Jon listed it seems that just about everyone will be paying more than necessary. Since most of us don’t have any extra money, it comes out of our already stretched budgets. Maybe that’ll throw more heat on the deals Obama struck to protect industry profits and inefficiencies and perhaps we’ll see them shredded. …or something like that.
http://firedoglake.com/2010/03/22/early-morning-swim-the-house-passes-health-reform/
“Yay, we got f***ed, but we beat the asshat Republicans.”
The boundaries of the veal pen are indistinct.
This is a bit of a fallacy. The individual mandate in THIS bill means that we have to buy private health insurance and enrich the insurance corporations. “Single payer” means that the middleman corporations are cut out and the slight increase in taxes goes straight to health care providers in order to cover everyone. The “single payer system” is cost-controlled by the Gov’t, the “individual mandated system” is not. These are just words, and their failings are used to confuse us.
Jake, couldn’t agree with you more. One good thing about all this, is that so many progressives, people who despise the Palin’s and the Limbaugh’s and the Beck’s, are angry that the mouth-breathers are being used as red-herrings so that some liberal bloggers don’t have to talk about the real problem of lack of integrity and leadership from O. and the dems.
The bottom line is that the democrats still have the hosses to use reconciliation to pass real legislation for real change, but the clock is ticking, and fast. But I just don’t think they have the will or the desire. As I said upthread, everything I’m seeing points to their looking forward to being lame ducks for Obama’s last two years.
I like Digby.
There’s already a free-clinic movement, and Dr. Oz is its spokesperson. If the 50% or more of doctors who are against this bill step up to the plate in their own communities, we will have our free clinics. Ask your doctor what he or she thinks.
Your post illustrates exactly why things will not get better. As long as you buy hook, line and sinker into the two-party toggle politics, we are doomed. Yup! Scary and defeatist as it sounds, you will never, ever know representation under the current political system in the U.S.
There is no two party – there is only ONE party. The Wall Street Corporate party and the rules of this party are that anyone and everything is for sale.
This isnt a matter of Democrats defeating Republicans (nya, nya, nyaaaa) this is an issue of PEOPLE vs. PROFIT MARGIN. Profits first, people last!
If you want real change, stop putting money and energy behind a failed system and work to overthrow it with alternative parties and working to create a powerful and viable third option.
As far as my day-to-day is concerned, I see no difference in either party, hence, I am more than happy to toss every single Democrat to the curb this fall and I don’t particularly care who (or what) takes their place.
Why should I? Nothing about my future is looking any brighter and the weakest link always gets cut first. If the Democrats CHOOSE to be the weakest link….so be it.
And if you simply MUST make this about petty party politics then I for one would rather see the GOP take the country down in flames as opposed to the Democrats stepping up and claiming the mantle of ownership on the deconstruction of America. Especially since the Republicans are apparently still running the show.
It was highly entertaining but I doubt the GOP is going to put up much of a fight over the HCR bill. After all, Pharmaceutical and Insurance shares jumped up overnight! Who in the GOP is going to be the spoiler of that?!
Yup! Signed, sealed and delivered. Wall Street got their monies worth.
Democrats represent the haves
Republicans represent the have mores
As to the rest, TS, go buy your own party.
THAT’s not going to happen. There is NOTHING for Obama to gain by declaring a major victory, then calling attention to the major failings of his major victory. THIS is the Bill Obama wanted, he got it. Sorry, Jon, it’s done.
Congressional Dems will certainly pretend to want to fix it (for a few days anyway) but my guess is they’re already hard at work at changing the conversation asap.
“The boundaries of the veal-pen are indistinct.”
They sure are, Adams…I hope that at the mid-terms, the critters kick what’s left of them to smitereens, and go bounding all over the landscape.
As progressives, we had, briefly, more power than in a long, long, time.
The republicans didn’t take it away from us. Obama’s has handed it to them, as bribes and “centrist” party-favors. At this point, helping to make him a one-term preznint, would be an act of political courage on the part of progressives.
Frank, I like her too. Good lady, but she’s as wrong as two left feet, to be flacking for Obama on this shitty HCR bill.
Pretty much sums it up in a nutshell – “Go BUY your own party!”
Agree, except you forgot Social Security “reform.” Bush got his ass handed to him on privatization. But Obama has the “debt crisis” media panic and the momentum and media credibility of health care “refom” going for him.
Monday morning at the WH: “Well, thank god that’s over. So much still to do. Invade Iran? Indemnify and insure our Wall Street friends? Restructure Social Security? Put on a state dinner for Jack Bauer? Invite union bosses to BBQ ribs on the WH lawn to celebrate progress HCR and EFCA? It never ends. How will we ever decide, Rahm?”
BTW, and OT. I think you would like Wallace Shawn’s “Essays”.
Uh, yeah, I think he is exactly like the Republicans. He hasn’t reversed any of the abuses of the Constitution started under Bush, and having a “Democrat” continue them, gives them the imprint of bipartisan approval.
I don’t think there is anything that Obama has done that a McCain or Bush wouldn’t have done. Heck, before they decided to opposed it for political reasons, many GOP congressmen were talking about a stimulus bill.
I like to think FDL is like a press box at a ball game. We don’t root for either team (anymore)….just documenting the atrocities.
Why ask Jon to lie?
It’s not.
But tell them why.
All it really takes is a well-constructed response. You can use it again and again.
I did so about 11 times last night and this morning, in response to the “I voted for ‘health care reform’ [sic]. Contribute to me” e-mails.
I’m starting to think Obama and his minions view the Presidency as a money making opportunity…..first and foremost. Deliver cash to your backers, win or lose your next term, and have a lifetime of big buck speaking engagements and seats on giant corporate boards. Have everyone bow and scrape in front of you for the rest of your life. Not a bad gig if you can get it.
And utilizing asbestos, building on quicksand and/or the San Andreas fault.
Not if you’re on Medicare and your children are under 28.
Not all of us had our children when we were 22.
If anything the insurance companies have been given the green light to make hoards more money. They’ve been given a ‘captive market’ under penalty of law, an anti-trust exemption, and government subsidies in an industry with inelastic demand.
Probably not. Obama would want to leave the regulation to the corporations — voluntary compliance. He would then tell the public that this was the toughest regulation in history!
He might mandate the individuals purchase water purification fixes for each of their faucets….
ms molly, you should see the e-mails I got from “friends” to whom I sent Jane’s “the truth about the health care bill” chart.
These were, of course, the same friends whom I bugged ceaselessly throughlut 2008 with e-mails urging them to support Obama. [Okay, I was an idiot.]
While I’ve been sending links to FDL since then, apparently it was the seeing things in side-by-side black and white that sent them over the edge — and convinced them I was a Tea Bagger.
Where did I ever say to elect Democrats, or Republicans? Elect the best candidate you can. I dislike parties altogether and often think they should be outlawed.
Perhaps DEMSLUTS.org would be more accurate.
Like the bill that was just passed, these six items are a good start…
IMO, Medicare for all should be the number one priority.
I’m sure I catch some shit for that one but that’s where my head’s at. I’ve got full VA coverage with minimal copays and that’s what ALL Americans should be able to get…
Yes, very likely. Except, the taxation wouldn’t be REGRESSIVE, which an individual mandate is. If an individual mandate is such a simple fix to a problem, we should be living in Paradise by now. Homeless? You must buy a home. Jobless? You must get a job. Poof!
But under the just-enacted “individual mandate,” the money goes TO INSURANCE COMPANIES who are then quite happy to DENY coverage.
At least under single payer, even if the money goes via the government to the providers, the government is NOT taking out 30% for profit.
And, as mongopawn pointed out above, a system funded by a tax can be progressive, not regressive.
On the “Individual Mandate”: This is probably the biggest faux-argument that’s consistently churned here. The authori implies that a “public option” that’s limited ONLY to those w/o insurance (see ‘House bill’) somehow makes the mandate OK. You’re either FOR the mandate or AGAINST it. That’s true whether the insurance is gov’t controlled or private controlled…… On “Immigration”: I agree that this needs to be fixed. The place to “fix” it is with comprihensive immigration reform. That’s the next “major social legistlation” bill that needs to be tackled.
It was here before the vote — not in exactly this form, but here — if you’d bothered to read.
Deservedly so.
I’ve read there will be large increases in the number of IRS auditors –do you or anyone here have a link for that? Thnx.
I understand the IRS auditors increases will be in the reconciliation bill.Is that bill posted anywhere?
MauiMom:
“Okay, I was an idiot.”
You’re too hard on yourself. Obama was by far the best of the lot.
Clinton had sold her soul to the devil, by sucking up to the right about as hard as she could, and Obama gave us plenty of reason to believe that he would lead the charge to change things and to try to salvage something from 8 years of republican greed and lunacy. Without a doubt, most of the people on here voted for him, with varying degrees of enthusiasm.
Even considering that he was, and is, a politician to the bone, it was not unreasonable to be excited and hopeful. We had no way of knowing that some combination of a desire to not rock the corporate boat too much, and a reluctance to confront the people who’ve nearly wrecked the country, would rear their ugly, ineffective heads…but that’s what happened, and we’re stuck with it for another 2 and a half years, it appears.
MM: I’m not beating up on my fellow progressives for believing that Obama would make substantial changes in the way the country is run, as he tried to rectify the many fuckups of his predecessor; Don’t do it to yourself.
But at the same time, pretending that things are, more or less, moving right along, is the same kind of ignorant thinking or just corrupt spinning of reality that we got from Bush and his supporters, and on that one, I aint a marchin’. Period.
While we celebrate lets not forget we aren’t done yet. We need either Alan Grayson amendment to buy into Medicare, re-importation of drugs. This would seriously lower the cost of health care and make it equitable.
It is too easy for corporate interest to game the system a little at a time. We the people need to be vigilante and maintain our participation in the process to assure a true health care reform outcome.
We haven’t won yet but we are winning.
For the mid-terms people need to be made aware of the bills deficiencies, and be shown that they’re there because of the Republican BS
With all due respect: They’re there because the Dems wanted them there.
Reminder One: Dem pres and Dem chief of staff met secretly with healthcare industry execs without ONE Republican in the mix. Not one. Yet from those behind-closed-door meetings, with the public kept completely out of the loop came the main frame of the bill.
Reminder Two: Dem pres, Dem house, Dem senate. Reconciliation = 50 votes. The math is obvious.
P.S. You just gave a preview of a Dem Party operative talking point, however, so I thank you for revealing. Everyone, prepare to hear from Obama and company, “We did the best we could. The Republicans were the ones who kept us from _________ (fill in the blank).
The Independent Party here in MN has a very leading-edge take on health care – they’ve gone outside the box to a pretty significant degree. Translate: There are more than just two choices we can make. (That “either/or” stuff…a myth.)
“MSNBC ratings are going to drop like rock, if they keep trying to capture NEO-LIBERAL viewers.”
My take is that MSNBC has decided to be the “Fox News” for the Obama administration. Since the Corporate New “Democratic” President firmly is a neo-liberal which is basically conservative, I don’t expect MSNBC to take a “leftist” view anytime soon. I used to listen and watch Ed Schultz, Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow, but no more. I found the biggest letdown was Rachel Maddow whom appeared grounded and articulate in her opinions. Instead of focusing on the areas of problem in HCR, she focused on the tea party and Republican idiocy.
“Under this almost-law, undocumented immigrants would not be allowed to buy insurance on the new exchanges, even if they are willing to pay the full cost of the insurance with their own money. This policy is not only cruel and immoral, but fiscally irresponsible. The more undocumented immigrants that pay for their own health care, the more taxpayers save by not being forced to pick up the cost of undocumented immigrants’ uncompensated care when they use the emergency rooms.”
——–
Quite, quite WRONG. As it is, illegal aliens are NOT able to access the most expensive procedures such as treatement for chronic conditions and transplants. The latter generally require the recipient to be able to show that he is able to pay for the very expensive aftercare to prevent rejection, something that is difficult for anyone to do without insurance.
Latinos, along with Blacks, have the highest rates of obesity-related illnesses such as diabetes and the need for organ transplants such as kidney transplants. Every illegal alien who receives a transplant is depriving an American or legal immigrant (and don’t forget, DONATION of organs lacks even the U.S. in the homelands of illegal aliens). Furthermore, by not limiting access to the insurance exchange to LEGAL residents, we would effectively be opening our healthcare system to literally anyone in the world who wants to come here, be it legally on a NON immigrant (visitors, student, etc.) visa or illegally. We’ve already seen instances such as that of Jessica Santillan whose family came here illegally specifically to get transplants for her.
If illegal aliens need healthcare, then they should certainly be able to buy it, but NOT from exchanges that are subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer. Once upon a time, Mexico supposedly entered into a plan with BCBS of California to provide coverage to its citizens here in the U.S. Mexico’s been more than willing to look out for the interests of its citizens illegally in this county to the detriment of ours, so it’s about time Mexico and other illegal-alien-sending countries put their money where their mouths are.