The country turned an important corner last night when Congress affirmed the moral imperative of providing quality health care to more Americans and passed the President’s sweeping health insurance reform bill. It is to President Obama’s credit that he was willing to commit his office to such a challenge when others before him had failed.
But this is not health care reform, and the task of providing health care that Americans can afford is still before us. Too much was sacrificed to corporate interests in the sausage-making process. Rather than address the fundamental flaws in our health care system, we applied a giant band-aid. This health care bill does not come close to doing all that needs to be done to meet the needs of our citizens and our businesses as we retool our economy for the 21st century.
There are many good and praise-worthy things in this health care bill: help for those with pre-existing conditions, guaranteed coverage for children, money for community health centers, and expansion of Medicaid and SCHIP. But there is also cause for serious concern. Never before has the government mandated that its citizens pay directly to private corporations almost as much as they do in federal taxes, especially when those corporations have been granted unregulated monopolies.
This bill fundamentally shifts the relationships of governance in order to achieve its objectives. It was hard to reconcile the President’s campaign against the evils of the insurance industry with a solution of “corporate tithing” that drives millions of people onto their rolls. We have empowered another quasi-governmental, “too big to fail” industry with alarming nonchalance.
Over the course of the past year, it was exciting to take part in covering the health care debate as online journalists, watching “new media” mature as we all explored new ways to deliver information beat-by-beat to our audiences. At the same time, we witnessed a political process that could not keep pace with the depth and intensity of this coverage. Myths were exploded almost as quickly as they were generated. In the end, it was not a lack of 60 votes or 50 votes that caused the President to break faith with his supporters and sacrifice the public option, it was a lack of political will.
We saw in the last days what President Obama was capable of when he truly put the force of his political skill behind an effort. But as time wore on, the mountain of data unearthed could lead to only one conclusion: this bill, with its eerie similarities to a plan written by insurance industry lobbyists in 2008, was what the president wanted.
Rather than use his talents to rein in corporate interests, as he promised on the campaign trail, the President used his office to shield them from accountability. This was our chance to weaken them, and the Americans that Obama inspired with his message of change would have fought like hell by his side to do just that. Sadly, that opportunity was squandered. President Obama made himself the defender of the corporate interest problem that we still need to overcome. Perhaps that is the best that can be achieved within our current system. If so, that is a sobering reality.
This bill is a first step, not the last. The Democrats must fix this bill while they still have the chance. Before they leave Americans at the mercy of the system they have created, it is imperative that they address the issues of cost control, the dangerously weak enforcement mechanisms, and the anti-trust exemption for insurance companies.
Even a single, solitary Senator can begin that process immediately by introducing a public option amendment when the Senate takes up the reconciliation bill later this week. Now that the health care bill has passed, there is no need to worry that this move could endanger the overall package. The Senate should also consider the bill ending the anti-trust exemption for insurance companies already passed by the House. And when Congress takes up immigration reform, we hope that they provide for the health care needs of immigrants, a need too quickly cast aside in the face of right wing demagoguery.
We also hope that the Democratic party recalls that preserving abortion rights is a plank in the party platform. Unfortunately, with this legislation, women’s reproductive rights were sacrificed for corporate profits. There’s no other way to say it. And the party alone is not to blame. It could not have happened without the cooperation of pro-choice groups, who failed to mobilize and did little but issue press releases and fundraise in the wake of the biggest assault on women’s reproductive rights in 35 years. Their complete capitulation is symptomatic of the crisis that the passage of this bill has triggered on the left. Liberal interest groups across the board sacrificed the interests of their members, and, in the end, acted as little more than enforcers for PhRMA and the insurance companies, or sat mute in exchange for personal sinecures and carve-outs.
But it is a national shame that a Democratic President who pledged the repeal of the Hyde Amendment would proudly issue an executive order affirming it. How far we’ve come since 2007, when Barack Obama swore that his first act in office would be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act.
And finally, most of all, we hope that members of both parties find the courage to stand up to the corporate lobbyists who dominated this process–because if left unchecked, their pernicious influence will continue to infect every aspect of our government to the detriment of its citizens. We who are voters must clearly communicate in November that we will accept nothing less because the fight cannot end until we as a nation decide to take on the corporate interests that are corrupting our political institutions and strangling their ability to provide affordable healthcare to everyone.




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Well said Jane, well said.
Keep up the good fight, Jane. We’ll stand with you.
Chutzpah defined: the remarkably narcissistic shamelessness that allows Jane Hamsher “congratulate” people on a bill she worked tirelessly with its opponents to defeat.
You can apologize to Jane right now.
Fixed it for ya.
Handy tip: if you put a word in quotes, it’s helpful that the original word appear somewhere in the post you’re quoting.
Who the hell do you think you are? I thought the DKOS bs trolling was over yesterday. Jane has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for YOU and EVERYONE ELSE! Sick and g-damned tired of you useless trolls and party hacks shitting on everything Jane has done. If you people worked half as hard as her, this POS bill would not be a POS. Go back to Kos and do some more snoopy dancing.
Of course it always comes down to who will pay. The one absolute: Somebody has to pay for all of this. I guess we’ll see how things shake out.
Doesn’t this mean Rush has to leave the country now?
I call it sportsmanship.
Well said Jane, especially “it is imperative that they address the issues of cost control, the dangerously weak enforcement mechanisms, and the anti-trust exemption for insurance companies.”
I’m sure practically all who frequent the FDL site “have your back”.
Thank you.
Costa Rica wasn’t it?
How?
How do we take on the corporate interests? They’re not only having their way with HCR, but with every aspect of our political life. Every issue. They win every time.
Are we going to continue fighting the proximate symptoms, or are we going to address the underlying disease.
That is so clever. You must work on K-street or C-street. One last time, this corporate subsidy was written by a K-street shill who left her name on the computer file.
We were promised something else. Damn kossaks.
Hear, hear.
I wonder how many on the Left will oppose fixing this legislation in the future, since they seem to think it’s the greatest thing since sliced bread.
“sweeping health insurance reform bill”
Better than HCR bill, but still misses the mark. What has been accomplished is a Sweeping Health Industry Bailout.
Spot on Jane.
This bill delivers the biscuits and gravy to the insurance industry.
Are there any members of Congress with the courage to change it?
I’m giving up on Obama — he has sold out to the corporations.
Chutzpah defined: “a Democratic President who pledged the repeal of the Hyde Amendment proudly issue(ing) an executive order affirming it. How far we’ve come since 2007, when Barack Obama swore that his first act in office would be to sign the Freedom of Choice Act.”
Jane,
Thanks for a nicely written moderate statement.
All very important, but I missed a call for repealing the individual mandate. Getting rid of it is fundamental to restoring fairness, and working against it would be the most popular thing for progressives to do right now.
I really think it is wrong to start down the PO road again. It just gets us back into the mess of last summer. I think we ought to forget the PO and work on Medicare and Medicaid expansion. Medicare expansion would be popular, and it doesn’t come with complexities that need to be explained to people.
That would be good. Iceland would be better.
“In the end, it was not a lack of 60 votes or 50 votes that caused the President to break faith with his supporters and sacrifice the public option, it was a lack of political will.”
I would characterize it as a boatload of political won’t.
So does this mean you will be re-directing your energy at the creation of a viable third party?
Because if you are suggesting we just keep flogging the worthless Democrats all while re-electing them and sending them money (none of us have) you just lost me.
“Hoping” the party fall into line, “Hoping” for better representation?
Well as my cynical grandfather used to say – “hope in one hand and sh*& in the other and tell me which gets full first”
Revisit the terms and responsibilities of incorporation. Remove personhood from the concept of corporation.
Hey, Jane is just being polite, civil, and measured in her summarizing the situation. Lay off!
Bernie?
Russ?
I’m with you Jane, lead the way.
Thanks, Jane, for your tireless work on this, and so many other vital issues.
Say it loud and keep on saying it, Insurance Reform is not Health Care Reform. And THIS Insurance Reform is thin gruel compared to what we were promised in the campaign!
Step 1 is done. Steps 2-2,000 still to come.
The Obama Health Care Kabuki Exposed a lot things.
1. It is expose the fact that we have a lot of phony Dems in congress
2. It is expose the fact that we have a lot of phony pro choice groups
3. It is expose that MSNBC, is all about Kabuki Theatre (Ed thinks that this Health Care Scam is like Medicare and Obama is FDR, now he needs PSCHO talk)
4. MoveOn.org, Daily Kos, Union Leaders are for sale and can care less about the progressive movement.(wonder what their members are going to say when they learn the truth about Health Care scam)
Jane we all thank you for exposing these FRAUDS.
We all know OBAMA is a FRAUD
Thanks Jane for all.
The next big battle is finance industry reform and Obama has already declared he’ll fight for the Dodd bill, which is another big bail out and sell out for that corporate industry. So, Jane, how shall we batter down that steel door to get through to justice?
Blessings,
A note-perfect statement.
Thank you so much for your tireless, brilliant work, Jane. It’s made such a difference. You’re a true hero to many.
New let’s all roll up our sleeves… once more into the fray!
Thank you. I call it good sportsmanship, too. Like when you teach little league teams that the losers shake hands with the winners.
The biggest problem from this entire fiasco is not the bill. Sure it’s crap, but the bigger problem is the Democratic Party, and “progressives” supported with cash, and hard work, have proven to be sellouts. Add to this the fact that almost every supposed left blog, jumped the tank and right into bed with the Democratic Party, rather than standing beside their fellow progressives. So not only is there a bad bill, there is also proof that there are few progressives in Washington, or in the blogosphere. A double whammy.
Everywhere I look on the web, even sports posts and history blogs, I see comments that this is a great triumph for America. People who should be able to read intelligently seem to be overlooking the huge problems with the “health care” that is now going on the books, but won’t really be operable until after obamarahma gets the opportunity to run for a second term. If he had intended it to be for the good of the population at large, he would have fought to have it operating in full swing by 2011 so he could point to the wonderfulness. Now he will say that he deserves another term because the hcr will be so good, just trust him. Anyone that can think unfettered by being in the veal pen or simply following blindly can see how that worked out.
Well, goddamnit!
.
PC Kommissar
“If so, that is a sobering reality.” – Little steps forward
“This bill is a first step, not the last.The Democrats must fix this bill while they still have the chance. ” – and just as quickly, an inebriated wobble backwards?
Great. :•(
I agree with you.
This Health Care Scam showed a lot of organizations and people true colors.
First important thing about war, is knowing who the enemy is, this Bill brought out a lot known and unknown enemies of the left.
From a commenter on FDL
Misconception 4: Progressives can only win within the Democratic Party.
Jon, go reread your own work. Or read Glenn on civil liberties. Or read Jane’s recent comments on the choice issue. We need to leverage our position with viable third party runs. This is what Rahm meant when he said don’t worry about the left and how frakin’ retarded we are.
This is a really a combined sentence. He really meant “Progressives are frakin’ retarded because they’ll vote democrat no matter what evil policies we pass.” Frankly, if this is his thinking, he’s completely correct. I mean, your position is “Screw me hard and dry, Rahm and Barry. I’ll vote democrat anyway and criticize the SEIU if they look for a way out…”
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/16/did-seiu-just-threaten-to-become-their-own-caricature-of-ralph-nader/#comment-95919
I agree with that. Why do so many here (outside of the obvious trolls) act as if it is otherwise?
From Jane
If you know how to start a VIABLE third party, with or without these groups, please by all means let us know. We just saw what Stupack did with maybe eight other reps.
“The democrats must fix this bill while they still have the chance.”
That’s it.
And what are the chances of that happening between now and the mid-terms?
After which, their ability to fix it is almost certain to be seriously impaired.
Jane’s been nothing but an Epic Flailure since this began with her underpants gnome tactics, concern trolling, attacks on other progressives who disagree with her (ever been accused of being a corporate shill? how about your wife? We have, by Jane), and of course the working with the enemies of all things progressive.
Jane’s not a progressive, she’s only out for Jane Hamsher, which is why she pays herself (and Greenwald) $48K of your PAC money every year for essentially doing nothing but undermining your efforts and providing limited carthatic outlets for kids who don’t know any better.
f not non-existent.
Notice how Stupak fought for his anti-abortion provisions until the end? Notice how Obama had to grant some conciliation?
I wonder what Obama would have done to bring real Progressives (if there were any Jane Hamsher’s in Congress) aboard.
Progressives should have fought this bill tooth and nail, instead of spinelessly compromising.
Sure–when the deal won’t get any better, vote for a bill. Disappointing as it is.
The Jane Hamshers of the world aimed higher than our Congressional representatives. And I applaud her.
That’s why we need a “Draft Howard Dean” movement (or someone equivalent although none come to mind)to oppose Obama.
If nothing else, it showed the left and the progressive movement, have absolutely no power in Washington. Progressives took it from behind from the Dems and the front from the Republicans, and then those who were supposed to be allies in the blogosphere, heaped scorn and ridicule on those who truly were trying to change the status quo.
Link?
Why should they?
The bill is a done deal and enough of the Democratic “base” is celebrating the big FU to the GOP that all they have to do is stoke that “happy high” until November.
Stocks are rebounding sky high (well, some anyway) Obama is up in approval rating and everyone from Michael Moore to Dennis Kucinich is gushing over how this is the BIGGEST accomplishment since the Civil Rights Act. (I tasted vomit reading it and again just now when I typed it)
This IS the bill. Period!
doesn’t look much like it, does it?
We’re still in lala land on the Lake, with a nice fire toasting our withered souls, and a fond memory ….
Who is WE?
Very well said, Jane! Let’s start pushing Senators to introduce a public option amendment, and whatever else we can get to improve the bill.
Somalia would be more ideologically correct, for Rush that is.
How sleazy. Go away.
I want to vote Green, to make sure the Democrats know that they lost my vote.
I want to vote Republican to make sure Democrat incumbents lose their jobs.
The only way I’d vote for Obama in 2012 is if he runs against Palin or Cheney.
We are all waiting patiently for you to back up your bullshit. This is Jane’s blog. If you have proof for your accusations, show it. If not, go back to wherever you came from. Again, who is this “WE” that you talk of. Don’t just hit and run now. We are waiting……….
Are you visiting from a parallel universe?
can you give me a link to Moore’s gushing?
It’s called putting your money where your mouth is. Consider this scenario, when Obama first ran for the Democratic nomination, he was a nobody.
The DNC was skeptical he could pull off a win and nobody within his own party was even taking him seriously. He stoked a major grassroots effort and eventually became the new “darling” of the Dems.
And (gag) even Joe LIEberman ran as a third party candidate – a party that isn’t even REAL for crying out loud.
Start with the major states that wield the most economic power (or damage) and clean house from there.
The hardest part – you can’t do it sitting at your computer.
They already exist. None are perfect (and who the heck expects perfect?), but they are perfect for changing registration and a protest vote at the very least.
There is no reason we can’t do that and more while working inside the D party to accomplish our goals. Blue Dog Republicans do it every day with remarkable success.
Could we please have time to catch a breath and re-group? Our moves from now on have to be carefully planned. We can’t just start flailing about and screaming – won’t work.
Jane, what a fantastic article. After you mentioned the new media maturing, I noticed there were NO cuss words!!
Dang! ♥♥♥
BTW, I have been getting many appeals for money from dims: boxer, dnc, actblue with two new “real progressives,” etc. I have been unsubscribing from their lists. I fill out the reason why in their little boxes, but I don’t expect them to read the message; I just feel better after writing it. The two actblue candidates may very well have good intentions, but we have seen that once the “progressives” get to be congresscritters they see that abundant, green “grass” all around and living up to their promises gets harder and harder.
as i understand it, while the public option is a semi-good compromise for single payer which is the real reform this country and all it’s citizens need, should any changes – and that would be the public option amendment – be added in the senate, it will basically mean starting all over. it would have to go back to the house to be re-voted upon, which would never win.
yes, this is a start; not a perfect start, but a start. and yes, the work has only begun. we will keep fighting for single payer, we will keep fighting to completely eliminate the for-profit health care industry; but we have begun.
Push! Push! UGHH.
Push!
Push!
Damn, this thing is REALLY stuck how come we’re not moving?
Because it’s a house dude, the wheels are just painted on for fun.
It’s on Huffpost….he did a 180 on his previous views. Imagine that.
“Misconception three: A third party has to win every single seat in every single race to be effective.
That’s false. I will air my plan again. You need to contest 5 senate seats/25 house seats to have a say on most issues that are before the congress. We could start in 2010 and be ready by 2012. It would be nice if those 30 or so people were hard negotiators like Bart Stupak. You need 300000 to run a viable house campaign and you need 2 million to run a viable US Senate race. The SEIU could easily do this.”
-from a commenter on FDL
Personal grudge.
Who is stopping YOU from finding a third party candidate?
You have all this time to comment.
Get him or her on the ballot.
Make it happen.
Then do a post up at Seminal about how it went.
Jane thanks for your tireless efforts.
I post.ed this over at Jon’s post and I think it’s worth repeating
Democrats represent the haves
Republicans represent the have mores
As to the rest, TS, go buy your own party
I forgot about that! AFIC that’s reason enough to celebrate.
For me, the mandate without a public option made me oppose this bill. However, at the moment of truth (a vote), it was far better to pass this pig than fail it.
Politically, this *is* a victory for Democrats and even liberals. This *has* demonstrated that the GOP minority is not in charge, that an issue they passionately despise was beyond their ability to block.
It’s a big deal.
My instincts tell me Dems will try to drop additional reform…but on the other hand, this might make them more receptive to Progressive pressure to improve things.
Maybe they’ll appreciate this thrill of victory and go for more ;-)
We began a year ago. The passing of a bill in Congress did not change this fact.
Jane, thanks for the grace, good sense, and all your hard work.
A luta continua.
Nice dodge.
Show me the money.
Show me you can get someone on a ballot.
Welcome to Teabag left. Do not disagree with Jane or anyone who post here! You will be screamed at, called names, your grammar corrected, told to go away. Very proudly American here…like the teabaggers of the right ..as long as you agree with them and follow some written or unwritten purist rules the first of which is to NEVER negatively comment about anything Jane might say. If it were not sad it would be hysterically funny. But just be warned…most folks here do not “cotton” to no disagreeing with them….no sireeee.
Well said, Jane. Thanks for fighting the good fight.
In next steps, don’t forget watching the drafting of the regulations to implement this bill and generating reasoned public comment on the specifics of those regulations. Otherwise the insurance industry will be able to undo in the language of the regulations what modest items were good about the bill.
thanks.
Still waiting………did you leave? Did we hurt your feelings again?
Thank you Jane for hanging in there. It really gives refuge to a lot of us now that so many party cheerleaders have shown their true colors. The IRS-enforced mandate is one of the most hideous I have ever seen in this country and I am 55. Their next goal will be to go after SS.
I’ve been flailing and screaming ever since I’ve first dipped my toes into the Lake.
No, Mal. She’s not a failure. I’ve been banned here before, for arguing vociferously against some of FDL’s positions. I am currently banned on threads by most of the regular bloggers like Siun and BlueTex and TBogg…but not on Jane’s threads, for some reason. :o)
I disagreed with her on the usefulness of forming any kind of an alliance with Grover Norquist, for example.
But she has been a staunch voice for progressive change, and nearly all the time she is a pit bull for latching on to the core of issues, and then articulating them and following up on them. She’s an excellent spokeswoman for our side on the talk shows, and has become very adept at skewering the rightwing gibberish that is so extant today.
She’s a smart, tough, and undeniably courageous lady. If she makes some bucks for creating and running FDL, I think she deserves it. It’s one of the best of the progressive town-hall meetings. Especially, since she’s loosened up to the point that she can take the petty, erroneous, stick that you aimed at her. I’ve watched her grow, and learn, that’s what it’s about, after all.
It’s Jane’s blog. Why would anyone that owns a blog, accept someone’s dog crapping on their carpet?
the reason progressives got wipe out, was because we did not know who all our enemies were.
Remember if you listen to Obama you would think that this Bill has a Public Option, with start this year, etc. Obama is a great liar. (few progressives knew how deceptive and evil Obama would become)
Glenn Greenwald, articles really showed us how Dems in congress screw their base, with all the phony Boogey men, and how they take turns scewing the Dems Base.
Canadianbeaver? Daily Kos, MoveOn.org, shows us how some so call progressive groups will sell out progressives at drop of a hat.
The GOOD news is now we know who our enemies are.
And a lot of help is on the way, to fight this evil.
All the excitement about this Bill is just an ACT, at the end of day the rubber has to hit the road, and when people learn about this Health Care scam, everyone is going to get amnesia!
Come Novemeber every Dem is going scream, how he or she did not this about the OBAMACARE scam.
stay tuned
It’s not a matter of disagreeing – it’s a personal attack on Jane. Disagree all you like but you can be reasonably civil. Jane has been doing amazing work for the last year on health care. If you don’t like it, tough.
Chutzpah?
I thought it was called graciousness. Maybe I’m in a different world than the take-no-prisoners, accept no compromises, vicious world of contemporary politics.
If people disagree with you, are they not supposed to make comments?
Hey Jane! THANK YOU for all you do!
Please forgive, but is this you, at :28 ??? Heh heh. No. Really!
It’s deeply amusing watching you all circle your wagons to defend Jane’s perverseness as the rest of the progressive blogosphere shakes their head at her and inches away. Good luck with that.
^^^^^Well said.
Thank you Jane, for always showing a spine, and never selling out your principles like that Party hack whore, Kos.
I admire your courage and resilience, and every time I get down feeling like this entire country is full of misinformed, thick-headed, sheep, I come back to FDL and realize I’m not alone in my thinking.
Thank you, again.
Yes, you have and I don’t discount any of your ideas. There are things that are possible and things that are not. On this issue I personally hate the “baby” steps but that’s the hand we have been dealt. We can only go from here.
I can attest to that, but the Laker’s used to be Obamabots themselves, and as reality ground down their misconceptions they’ve started smelling the coffee.
There is a nexus here that could be mobilized with some incisive truths from Jane to face up to this rule by economic elites.
A few more day’s before I might be forced to concur with you.
This was no failure of will by Obama but rather an affirmation of it. He did not fold and sell out to corporate interests. The sellout was always the plan. What I miss in this is any mention of Medicare. Because as much as this was a cold-blooded sellout at the expense, and betrayal, of the American people, it was just as much as a means to slash Medicare.
The point as often been made before, Glenn Greenwald does a good job of stating it, but positions and policy that could be rationalized away as aberrations under Bush are being legitimized by Obama. His Executive Order against choice is yet another example of this.
Democrats and Obama deserve no credit or praise for what they have done here, and it is likely they will receive none from voters in November. There will be a certain kind of justice in this for them, but not for the American people whose interests are as ignored and poorly served by Republicans as by Democrats.
BTW Jane (now that I’m in moderation): I gave to FDL during the Libby trials, but given your betrayal of my principles, I want my money back. Let me know.
Still waiting on your proof. Quit posting BS and show your proof. You are the one with accusations, I’m saying if you want “Jane’s people” to believe you, prove it. You aren’t. Just spouting BS. Now prove it, or go back to Kos or Redstate where you belong.
“The GOOD news is now we know who our enemies are.”
do you really?
As someone who survived the primary wars at FDL I can guarantee that there were as many folks here who supported HRC as there were for Obama.
And both groups were minorities.
Per canadian beaver:
Jane and FDL remain honest voices in our nation’s discourse.
rare these days.
I’m glad you guys are here.
I seldom comment here because I think this community does so much better a job of expressing my feelings than I ever could myself. That said, I genuinely appreciate all of you for the sense of community and empowerment that you have provided to this lurker in spite of the…spite that you have had to endure for clinging to your principles. Thanks people! And Jane, you rock! Thanks for all you have done and will, no doubt, continue to do in the future.
Actually I find the real pushback occurs when one makes inflammatory statements without backing them up with evidence (ie a link). You can actually disagree with her or anyone else without much in the way of resistance if you address the underlying argument made and not launch into talking points or the plethora of illogical bullshit like: appeals to emotion, appeals to authority, appeals to power, ad homeniem and of course the non linked strawman.
For me I wanted to like this bill, but no one tried to answer substantive points after about August, the bill was essentially written and it was time to get on board. I think you will find that the best critiques of the bill were from the left, since they actually addressed the substance of the bill. Yet the response was “you want a pony” or “wave a magic wand” kind of crap instead of actual reflection on the process and the bill itself.
Start here.
Are you the person that stood up and shouted Public Option, Public Option at the Obama Rally, back in September 2009?
You are that [Edited by Moderator. No name calling, please] aren’t you.
Well if you could read, you would know by now that Obama and Rahm killed the Public Option in June of 2009.
How does it feel to be played [Edited by Moderator]?
Laughing
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the firepup Freedom Fighters:
Absolutely the best statement of political principle that could be made, Sister Hamsher…I believe that you have staked out a position on healthcare reform moving forward that can be used to define what politicians get suppport and which don’t. Like women’s reproductive rights, the right of everyone to access to a truly national healthcare system can become a defining issue in districts throughtout the country every election cycle, if forces like FDL make it so.
The experience you’ve gained in this fight must not be lost, but should inform and focus efforts going forward from attempts to influence targeted election campaignes to ongoing efforts to reform or blowup groups like NARL and even NOW.
I hope you consider targeting districts and candidates in this off-year election and what about declarin’ war on NARL…I know that Mrs. Norske is ready to strap on her steele pot and grab up her pitchfork to go after those latte-drinkin’ Witches of Eastwick who run that snakeoil outfit.
I hope you don’t think that this effort of the last 9 months has ended in anything close to defeat, in fact I would argue that if it weren’t for FDL and others like it, this bill would have been the last action on healthcare for 25 years instead of the first in what I believe will be much more in the next 6 years.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PAAS THE AMMUNITION, QUITTING NOW IS NOT AN OPTION!!
I completely disagree with this. CHIP was created and signed under Clinton. CHIP, Ted Kennedy’s truest work, was the last social safety net that a Dem Congress and President provided. It was also the last piece of bipartisan legislation to extend the social safety net.
We can not let history be written about anything about this corporatist bill that Obama is signing. I do not agree with FDL for endorsing the meme “when others before him had failed”.
Here’s what the tea party calls music!
Agree Jane…this bill is a good beginning but leaves much to be desired.
In the end our subjugation to the ‘corporate masters’ defined by the parameters of this legislation defines an era in which we are lied to again and again by policy makers in order to serve the greater monied interests. I believe that a strong Federal Govt. is essential and we must continue to engage it to become a more responsive entity to the will of the people. It is clear most Americans will not be well represented by what happened here and only several fixes to the legislation will make it more palatable.
“The primary targets of the manufacture of consent are those who regard themselves as “the more thoughtful members of the community,” the “intellectuals,” the “opinion leaders.” An official of the Truman administration remarked that “It doesn’t make too much difference to the general public what the details of a program are. What counts is how the plan is viewed by the leaders of the community”; he “who mobilizes the elite, mobilizes the public,” one scholarly study of public opinion concludes.”
48K is starvation wages especially here in DC. She’s worth at least 6 times that!
Good luck in November. Sell-out.
you’re not going to get evidence or anything that proves what they asserted, they just want to agitate people and flaunt their Pyrrhic victory. Just like the serious problems with this bill were never actually addressed, but instead ignored or greeted with a non sequitor of a talking point.
Excellent, Jane. The corporate grip on the country tightens and it’s not going to be pretty watching as the disillusionment with this bill grows.
Thanks Jane. I look forward to the upcoming strategies.
Now you’ve got both of them.
A war Hawk at State and a corporatist hack in charge. Best of both worlds, eh?
And hijacking threads. Yeah, we noticed…
There is absolutely a place for protest votes.
We have to keep the option of moving to a third party open. If we close off that option, we have even less leverage.
I think in general the lowest cost option for third party progressive candidates is in the DEMOCRATIC primaries for the House. Each state and region, however, are different. I think trying to form alliances with conservatives on FISA, auditing the Fed,….. makes really good sense, because it applies to legislation. It respects the individual constituencies of different elected officials.
Well said!
Thank for this sober analysis Jane. It seems this is one of the few places not overrun by amok-like cheerleading of the shiny being waved by Congress and the White house.
start anywhere that does not have a ‘D’ after it. ‘D’ a version of the Borg that will assimilate the most progressive elements in no time. Fuck the Dorg.
Thanks for ignoring the statement that the supporters of both were in the minority here.
i step in the right direction–
others say that and you attack them
Jane says it and you heep praise on her
your all Full-Blown Corporatist Dems, your just not smart enough to understand it- hence, the song remains the same
Disagree? Yes. Insult? NO!
A huge thank you:)
It couldnt have been easy for you to stand up against the WH, the special interests, and the faux grassroot bloggers, who devoted themselves to undermining you, blasting you and your website and your efforts. Thank you for standing strong!
Our work begins anew … there are no cost control mechanisms in this bill despite the WH spin. Insurers can no longer deny coverage for a pre-existing condition? Really? What was that penalty again for the insurer who denies coverage anyway? Oh, its a small fee? And,its still cheaper for the insurer to pay the penalty then to provide coverage. We are not hearing the real facts of this bill of goods?
Thank you Jane. The individual mandates, without a viable public option, is a political loser for Dems. Do they really think they can sell this?
Healthcare reform is here? Finally. Now I can get sick just like I’ve always wanted.
Healthcare stocks sky high this morning? I’m a little late to get on that bandwagon, but I did buy stock in bootstraps this morning. Going to make a killing over the next few years.
“Are we going to continue fighting the proximate symptoms, or are we going to address the underlying disease.”
.
.
I am not able to balance which ‘fight’ going forward from here would be the most effective toward reversing the ‘diseased’ political system. I do know that making strong inroads towards campaign finance reform would have the ability to lessen direct corporate money influence on Congress. As always, corporate interests WILL find a way around to ‘get to’ legislators, but CFR would be a major step in giving more relative power back to voters (read REAL flesh and blood people, not corporate entities).
I’m getting that drift. Sick and tired of reading all the negative crap about Jane from people that do nothing but suck the pols in Washington. From Kos, to C&L, to Digby’s blog, even on Huffpost, idiots have been tossing shit at Jane for a year. Enough is enough. If they worked half as hard at being real progressives instead of pretending, they wouldn’t have time to toss Jane under the bus daily. It’s pathetic. Bad enough the politicians are doing it to everyone on the left. Makes me furious!!!!!
sober analysis, followed by the same tired conclusion.
As much as the passage has been promoted as the success of liberal legislation it is fairly clear that it has separated progressives from the centrists and blue dogs. If the goal was to move the Ds to the right we are seeing a true success story. The problems with the bill are significant: anti-choice; protections for corporations and their profits; turning the IRS into a corporate lap dog via the mandate. These are problems that unfortunately needed to be addressed much earlier than this and with the full efforts of the administration behind them. The issues are neither acknowledged by the Ds nor will solutions spring from those that already were compensated for their compromises – wouldn’t be cricket.
The corporate lobbyists won and now most of the energy will swing right.
so who did you vote for, who was your huckleberry?
We now have a framework – a skinny one without a doubt – that will allow us to work on the important, nay critical issues that were left out of this bill.
Little more doin’ and a little less dissn’ the Pres is now in order.
Hey Jane…With single payer like Medicare for all at the top of the list, please make us a list of the top 6 or 7 things in your opinion that we should now focus on to improve what we just got.
How about Jane, a little leadership by offering up clear goals for FDLers to rally around and focus on over the next 12 mos.
PS: Let’s work on the problems and shortcomings, the members and personalities on the left not so much – unless of course they are blue dogs or anti-choicers but that’s a different kind of fight…
The HuffPo headline posts have been racking up tens of thousands of comments, almost uniformly exuberant and/or self-congratulatory.
I don’t see Obama and the rest of the Dems correcting course anytime soon when their supporters can’t tell shit from apple butter.
(((((selise)))))
Not that it’s any of your business, I voted for Gravel in the primary in Texas (where I was then living)
Wiping coffee off monitor.
I’ve tried to find this myself, but I can’t figure out what the changes to Medicaid are. In WA state, I am ineligible even though I am unemployed, uninsured and without assets to speak of. Even though most of the laws won’t come into play for several years, I wonder if I would then be able to get Medicaid. Does anyone know the particulars?
The worst part of this was the massive cave-in on the left.
FDR, LBJ, JFK, MLK, Teddy, all must be turning over in their graves!
Progressives need to understand that the base of the DEM party is by far majority Progressive.
What we need to do is kick out all the Neo-Liberals or phony dems in congress and let them go start a party.
We need to POLL the DEM party and see how many people consider themselves progressives and how many consider themselves NEO-LIBERAL
If you the majority you don’t leave.
We can not let the party of FDR, JFK, LBJ, MLK, be hijack by Corporate Dems
The American people will right the ship in November.
It’s that way all over the blogosphere except here. Unreal.
There you are ! Missed you.
Thank you for this, Jane
And for all your tireless work, and that of the whole FDL team, over the last year (!) on this.
This one will go on the “Most Popular Posts” list, I hope! For easy reference at the very least.
Best,
FunnyDiva
Actually what’s deeply amusing (in a dark way) is the complete fall in place and smartly salute the party line attitude of all those folks you’re talking about. I hope you don’t run out of brownshirts.
And for all of you [Edited by Moderator] that hit and run here with your smug little comments about our childishness etc. etc. etc. etc. etc, here’s a hint for you: when the thousands/millions of folks that read here but don’t comment are reading through this very thread, they have now gotten an extremely profound example of exactly who is acting childish with their petty insults and who the grown ups really are.
Grab your fucking brown shirts, tuck ‘em back in your pants, and go back to your safe little group where you don’t have to think for yourself, all you have to do is follow and do what you’re told.
Oh yeah, and don’t forget to always drink that kool-aid. The real world might be too much for you to handle after all of this denial.
(((Twain)))
Jane has been a breath of fresh air throughout this entire insurance bill “debate”. Factual, professional, relentless. Keep up the great work! Thanks to facts she’s helped assemble, I sent a scathing response this morning to the DNC and DCCC along with my unsubscription to their lists. I’ve also posted my response on facebook, in addition to re-posting Jane’s excellent myth chart. I’m still fuming. I want to be optimistic that this is a step forward, but it feels so much like a step WAY back (despite whatever *political* victory it might represent to the Dem party).
From the call-ins to an Oregon Public Broadcasting radio show right now, people are calling in about this bill and saying things like finally a bill that brings heathcare to people and not profits to the corporations.
They actually believe that, especially the second part!
I thought the left was resistant to the whole “go team” attitude often displayed by the right, but I guess I was wrong.
What’s ironic is that Jane is often flamed for her cooperation with Grover Norquist. What bothers me here is that the reason she is flamed is because he is a douche bag and therefore wrong, and everything, everything, he says or does is wrong, thus making Jane wrong. The classic guilt by association, yet Jane did this because the two of them actually agreed and the left-right attack is one that is difficult for many to defend (note the defense was the guilt by association and not the underlying point). Yet Jane is getting attacked by the same folks that support President Obama who has stated that he will work with anyone, including the hated Republicans, to get his agenda passed. Meaning it is okay when the president does it.
Finally Jane is, presumably, defending an ideal, a point, but these “go team” dumbasses are defending a party or a group of people, amorphous in belief and action. One to me seems principled, the other opportunistic.
The country turned an important corner last night when Congress affirmed the moral imperative of providing quality health care to more Americans
This statement is the MOST IMPORTANT outcome from this whole process. FDL has done yeoman’s work pointing out the problems of this legislation. The crew here has tackled every silly and damaging point of this policy. Indeed the rest of the opinion goes on to list those in detail. What makes this legislation a flat-out progressive VICTORY is based on the “turned..corner”…There’s no going back to the old debate (healthcare as privilege vs healthcare as a right) because HCR has established the baseline to grow coverage to all Americans. Even if you feel that you lost a battle (yesterday) you should not miss the ‘big picture’. Jane Hamsher (“Activist in Chief”) has clearly pointed that out. The corner has been turned and the debate has been settled. The war will continue but it will be fought based on the Progressive position.
“Most [Western democracies] have not achieved the U.S. system of one political party, with two factions controlled by shifting segments of the business community.”
just keep on analyzing and supporting mo better Dems, and you’ll wake up to indenture.
Credit goes to Opal, an octogenarian resident at my late grandmother’s nursing home. She used it in reference to the new cooks at the facility. Must admit it left me speechless.
Thanks Jane You fight so hard for the betterment of All The People and not for the greedy few!
Keep up the good fight and you can count on us Firepups to have your back.
Thanks again Jane for all you do.
Once these people realize the truth about this Bill, I don’t think their feeling will be the same.
Most people think their health care cost are going to go down, what are they going to say when this does not happen
the DEMS and REPS used a lot of Kabuki to sell this republican health care bill.
Just be patient, the blow back from this Bill is going to be HORRIFIC for the phony Dems in congress.
Chirs Hedges has great article up about this disaster
http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/the_health_care_hindenburg_has_landed_20100322/
I see health care industry stocks are reacting quite happily today to passage of this bill.
Well said Jane.
It raises eligibility to 133% above FPL. That is the only place I can see it. It will not be a requirement that I see for states to follow. It is worded on the WH website as an allowance to states. That does not kick in until 2014. It also extents more of an allowance to states starting in 2014 but that is slowly phased down back to what they were by 2019.
by further shrinking the Republic Party.
can you sketch it out a tad?
Well said.
Given the hours she spends, I bet that doesn’t net out to $8 bucks an hour, before taxes.
Back when she started this, she and Christy used to crank out four or five posts a day, each, seven days a week, 52 weeks a year.
Here??
at :28
?
Nice statement, Jane, thank you. For everything.
Progressives will *always* have work to do. We may never get all we want (or even some of what we want), but that doesn’t mean we give in to self-pity, or bitterness, or hate.
If I may go back to a phrase coined, what seems now, so long ago:
“More and better Democrats!
Citizen canadianbeaver:
Don’t waste your valuable energy and intellect on those who want to define themselves by vomiting bellies full of deflected anger onto those who actually fight for change. Anyone who can read Citizen Hamsher’s statement above and call her a narcissist is clearly ready to self-immolate in a firey burst of their own intestinal gases.
have you not fucking noticed who’s running the circus?!? Jeeeess!
I suppose folks are getting sick of me harping on this, but sorry, I’m going to keep at it.
They DESERVE to lose politically for this. IMO it should be our job to make sure they lose politically for this. The only way we’re ever going to get them to take us seriously if we ever start acting serious ourselves and actually hold them accountable.
They deserve to lose big this November. I’m going to do what I can to ensure they get what they deserve. Not out of spite, or meanness, (although theres some of that there), no, it’s called ACCOUNTABILITY. When you shit on your base, you MUST be held accountable. If we’re not going to hold them accountable, then we better not bitch and moan when they continue to shit on their base in the future.
Oh it also opens it up to the non-disabled.
You’re right. We don’t normally agree or engage with those who show up with a load of horseshit to spread around.
Jane said that Congress “affirmed the moral imperative of providing quality health care to more Americans…”
I’m new to this site (my new homepage after The Nation endorsed HCR).
While I agree with most everything Jane has written, I think that passage of this bill was anything but the “affirmation of a moral imperative of providing quality health care…” HCR is (and you’ve heard this a million times already), a stab in the back to the American people, and disappointing sell-out to the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries.
With regards to Obama willing to “commit his office to such a challenge when others before him had failed…” I don’t recall anybody else trying to force us all into HMO Hell.
As an attorney, I’ve seen many people with “good” health insurance driven into bankruptcy because they couldn’t afford co-pays, deductibles, or non-covered items.
Congress will fix this bill? I read a post earlier today that said, “when they fix NAFTA.”
Well, as Mr. Bennett says in Pride and Prejudice, “For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbours, and laugh at them in our turn?”
Link, End of Chapter 57.
I am sellse, not selise. We get confused a lot!
Just another example of why you are such a valued commenter and poster.
…or Obama.
Dr. Dean was the flippiest flipper of the flipping bunch.
Ooops.
Deepest apologies.
Welcome to the Lake.
As dakine01 notes, there have been major differences between posters and commenters during the 2008 campaign. These also occurred between public option and single payer supporters in the current debate. There were some bannings. I think this was a mistake and hurt the community. Trolls are pretty easy to spot. Those who espouse minority viewpoints and show their anger and frustration are not trolls.
One tactic that annoys me a lot is the invoking the “will” of the American People. It’s okay if you at least have the data to support the fact that it is indeed the will of the people, but often times its just empty statements like “the American people do not want government run healthcare.” Which of course presents several problems that could have been corrected by actually thinking before speaking; like: 1) proof 2) the wrong assumption that government is running this system (ie its not socialist at all) and 3) just because a group of people agree on something does not make them right, but in a democracy their concerns should at least be taken into account.
indeed I have.
Right on the money!
Unfortunately, it’s ALWAYS about the money, isn’t it? I’ve contacted Senator Nelson already with my thoughts concerning the budget reconciliation process–I hope everyone will contact their senators and do the same! Let’s hold their feet to the proverbial fire on this one–we can still have REAL healthcare reform in this country and we will never have it in our lifetimes if we don’t fight for it now!
Well, I must apologize to Jane for my outbursts on her blog. My day consists of browzing quite a few “progressive” blogs, and I’ve been reading crap about her for too long. This bill wasn’t about Jane, but all these people I thought were FDL allies, used it to throw crap at her. Can’t stand it. I am now down to this blog. The others are done. No more for me. Not going to go on their sites and tear them a new ahole like they try to do with Jane. Nope. No more money, no more memberships. They can stick it.
That is a good observation, perhaps a bit more true in earlier years when there was more of a two or three step process of information flow in politics.
If we continue to say it isn’t enough, we want more, that is one segment of leadership that people can rally around to continue the struggle for real reform in this and other battles.
I said earlier on another thread, it’s like watching a friend spiral downward into alcoholism. The only way to help, is to let him hit rock bottom. Until that happens, it’s roller coaster city.
This bill is a first step, not the last.
Reminds me of something author Charlie Stross posted yesterday:
Welcome to the Lake!
I’m assuming snark. Corporatist Republicans will replace corporatist Democrats. Seems more like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Good point. Bush gave us the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003. It did not even “force” the Medicare eligible to buy into that HMO give away with our taxes dollars. It severely twisted arms with their typical fear mongering but it was not a mandate.
Is it that they haven’t read the polls which say that a majority of the American public is in favor of a public option?
it is easy to sell the lie,
the problems begin when the lie and the truth meet.
Like Dennis Kucinich said before his flip flop, if you listen to Obama talk, you think the Bill has public option in it.
Last week OBAMA done something very, very, deceptive, he read a letter from a person with a Health Care crisis, and acted like his Bill could help this person, this is very evil, but effective. (a lot of people pointed out that nothing in the ObamaCARE scam will help this lady)
Telling the Lie is easy, making the lie reality is the hard part.
How are Dems going to ask this simple question?
GOP person yells the DEM over there is going to make you buy Blue Cross Blue SHield Health Insurance at Market Rates? What is the Dem going to say?
I think this simple question will end all smiles that you see today?
Yeah, and ‘ironic’ only scratches the surface. But then irony is dead, I hear.
A vast number of Democrats are certainly needing an accomplishment fix after the nonstop assaults of the GWB years, but this little sugar high won’t last. Once the general public starts looking for tangible, ground-level benefits the potential for an ugly electoral backlash will erupt. Keeping the Big Reveal pushed back will now be Job #1 for the corrupt corporatists.
vote third party, any third party that does not shill for corporations and instead stands for human rights.
Citizen SouthernDragon:
Don’t waste yer breath Brother Dragonman…you know better’n ta feed the little malnurished trolls, they’ll jest keep comin’ back for more.
OMG! The comments are fast and furious on this OPB show! “He had to do the mandate etc.
Just amazing to listen to this in context of FDL.
The show is called “World Have Your Say” and is a BBC origin
Thank you, dabear.
I agree with you
Virginia’s got your back, heathcare haters
Start Whistling ‘Dixie’.
I agree with you. Obama sure knew how to campaign and talk up a public option with no individual mandates, didnt he? We elect him, and he immediately turns around and starts to cut backroom deals with Pharma and the Insurance Companies. And, what do we get? An individual mandate and no public option. And this is the greatest bill since Medicare?
Its an outrage and all my democratic friends have expressed the same disappointment, anger, and sense of betrayal that I feel. I think Obama’s whole campaign was a con job and I feel had.
I think the Dems are in for a shock if they think this bill is going to motivate the base to turn out and vote for them in November. Not this bill. Not this time. Nope. We wont get fooled again.
Not that anyone reads this far down, but…
“The Democrats must fix this bill while they still have the chance” is pretty naive.
The Democrats have already showed us what “they” do, over and over again. Get it through your head that the democrat party is a corporate lap dog. Please give ONE example of the democratic party acting in defiance of corporate interests in the last 20 years. ZERO.
I could never repay my indebtedness to you for the political education I have received by reading your blog. Many thanks for your tireless work, and for keeping all of us from becoming part of the rendery.
Pretty close, it was the dress rehearsal for the current HCR package. Medicare Part D required Medicare recipients to purchase prescription insurance from a private insurer immediately or be penalized if they choose to enroll at a later date.
Apparently the takeaway for Dems was that the penalty for non-compliance should take effect immediately. Oh, and thanks so much for closing that donut hole guys… by 2020.
I looked and there before me was a pale hope pony! Its rider was named incrementalism, and more-of-the-same was following close behind him.
Amen, this bill is just neo-feudalism
http://forwantofanail.com/2010/03/insurance-bailout-passed/
I would like to thank Markos Moblablabla, Matt Yglesias, Paul Krugman, Nate Silver and Josh Marshall, and all their chickenhead commenters for being such obsequious little sellout punks.
Thanks guys, you own this pos, and everybody knows it.
We just have to keep pushing. And people do read to the end.
Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is ready for perusal: This Just In: Right-Wingers Still Wrong about Everything
Hadn’t smacked one in a while and wanted to keep my timing up. Wore a rubber glove so I didn’t get shit on my hand, though.
Actually, I think that it wa an excess of political will: to screw the rank and file and suck up to the plutocrats who apparently really do run this country.
Oh, please, have pity. Iceland has enough problems right now.
Last I heard there are nine states whose AGs are gonna join a lawsuit to find this piece of shit unconstitutional. Prolly won’t go far but it’ll make some Rethug AGs look good to their constituents, particularly those like McCollum who’re running for governor.
pushing to change the Democrat(ic) party from within, or pushing for real lasting change and balance of power?
Never going to happen. Republicans don’t really mind the mandate, they just want to use it to bludgeon the Democrats, and Democrats just passed it. We know there aren’t any principled liberals in the Democratic caucus, and even if their were they’d have to attach it as a rider to something truly ballsy; like a war-funding bill.
The only way we’re going to get control of our government back is if we make our representation simply too broad and too numerous to be easily bought by corporate interests. We’re going to need a national initiative/referendum mechanism, which means we’re going to have to get a Constitutional Amendment.
My sincere hope is that Jane puts to rest the effort and resources used to try and cajole a thoroughly corrupt system, and engages instead in pursuing the fight to fundamentally and systemically alter it.
Lets try this again. Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is ready for perusal: This Just In: Right-Wingers Still Wrong about Everything
Yes, this fails what I call my commonsense paradox. If the Democrats had the commonsense to fix it, they would have had the commonsense to put forward a bill that did not require it. They didn’t so they won’t.
Jane and friendly Dogs,
I urge you to have a look at this link. Smart money people are already figuring out what this means in terms of your pocketbook. Did the clever Dems see this coming? I doubt it!
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/P1.html
Left ya one at Caturday.
Citizen OldFatFuy:
There’s an alternative to assisted suicide for Democrats up for re-election this fall…and that is use Grayson’s Medicare for all bill and begin to target pressure on “progressives”. Make healthcare for all an ongoing issue beginning in “blue” districts every election cycle and make it a national issue again in the Presidential cycle. Take a step back and use the experience gained in this fight to keep pushin’ the issue forward instead of grabbin’ on to those closest to ya as you jump over the cliff. This bill is not a defeat for progressive change unless we let it be that.
sellse, you just said Obama is a not a real Democrat, we all know he is a liar
The question you must ask yourself is why would Obama care about the Dem base coming out to vote in November? Obama is playing for the other team.
Welcome to the Hope A Dope Obama Style
Obama was made by the corporate elite (goldman sachs) to help maintain the corporate elite.
Obama is praying that Dems lose in November
Let me try to rephrase it one more time, to try to get the absurdity across: Maintaining a belief in Democrats means you expect that a big business party whose function is ensuring continued ruling-class dominance, is going to fight to keep you safe from the depredations of this ruling class. And it means you are ignoring all the history that demonstrates beyond any doubt that Democrats will not do this.
Real change can’t come until people cease nurturing illusions in Democrats. And when large numbers of people finally get angry enough to throw the Democrats overboard, the time for change will be nigh.
The real danger of supporting the Democrats doesn’t come from the physical act of pulling the lever, it comes from the perpetuation of illusions, which in turn, tends to promote the undeserved & unfortunate general sense that the public is reasonably content with the choices that it’s offered.
Conversely, a mass defection from the Dem Party would be a development of the greatest importance; it would represent a popular repudiation of the official political setup.
What’s to be gained by clinging fearfully to a party as demonstrably spineless and corrupted as this one?
By arguing for “saving” the Dem Party, you are encouraging people in the illusion that staying inside this society’s traditional institutions will allow ordinary citizens to make far-reaching & fundamental changes in the way society is organized.
This simply cannot be. Our society is the way it is, precisely because it has been organized to function in the interests of a narrow slice of the population at the top. By definition, a “traditional” institution in this society (like the Dem party, or the media) is PART of the very machinery that permits society to function like this. These institutions work to maintain the social order — not to change it. They are against meaningful change.
Aside from the New Deal, the Democrats have never been allies of the “little guy.” They’ve merely pretended to be this. The history of the party, if you subtract out the New Deal (and this was a special case, because it was required to save the capitalist system from major social upheaval), is quite undistinguished, & frequently despicable. The party started out as the political arm of the Southern slaveocracy. It was represented by corrupt big-city machines like Tammany Hall. It won elections by holding the allegiance of southern racists until the mid 1960′s. It was in office when the CIA and national security state came into existence in the late ’40′s. It was more responsible for Vietnam than the Republicans were. What the hell is the attraction of a record like this?
Thank you for calling PolitiChoice®
Whonnnnnngk.
Click.
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…
If you would like to pursue reform from within the Democratic Party, press 1.
If you would like to effectively counter the DLC within an existing mainstream political party, press 2.
If you would like to help with DFA, press 3.
If you miss the seventies and want to join the DSOC/DSA discussion group, press 4.
If you would like to feel “underground” from the comfort of rightward-drifting centrism that calls itself “left,” press 5.
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Thank you for calling PolitiChoice®. Please bear in mind that internal reform is the only permissible focus
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Thank you Boo:)
I’ve never really understood why Democrats in Congress, nor their socio-economic colleagues, should care at all if Republicans take over control of the government.
They’re almost all quite wealthy compared to the average American, and I’m quite sure that they did very, very, very well for themselves even with the Republicans in control.
I still don’t get why folks are saying stuff like that when it was the Democrats, and Democrats alone, that wrote, passed, and codified it into law.
Those demonstrations outside the Capital are the exact same tactics the republican corporation used in 2000 to derail the recount in Florida.
Imagine this world and country if the evil forces of greed, fear mongering, win at all cost fraudsters, oil barons and corporatist who had orchestrated the storming of the re-counters in Florida had been ignored in the first place.
A Gore Presidency would have already kick started the green technology revolution, scaled back our dependence on foreign oil, continued to streamline the governments procurement process, expanded broad band to all, upheld and improved our environmental standards and our health, and all on a balanced budget. Remember the peace dividend – well there would have been more of it.
Ignore the paid for corporate assembled hoards trying to violently prop up the status quo as their death grip on our economy and political process slowly, very slowly begins to loosen. They have made a mess of things through deregulation and redistricting and the pendulum is swinging back the other way.
The orchestrated angry mobs are nothing but a bunch of duped racists and henchmen for the well heeled. The well heeled who are trying to hoard as much as they can for themselves – destroying the country in the process is of no concern to them and has no affect on their bloated bank accounts stuffed with ill-gotten gain, tax loopholes, and no bid contracts – pathetic boys, pathetic. As their grip is loosened ever so slowly expect the same tactics, lawsuits, rigged elections, rigged redistricting, rigged courts, racial slurs, end of world scenarios, the repeal of our rights and the seizure and control of our media outlets.
You better all pray its already not too late. And remember the angrier they get the more successful the middle class becomes.
Paul Burke
Author-Journey Home
You give this corporate sell out President FAR too much credit.
This bill does more harm then good. Yes, there are good things in it, everyone of them could have passed separately without enslaving the American people to the health industry.
Obama fought for them, not us.
This process revealed what we have all long suspected, the dems are a separate head on the body of a corporate fascist body.
I am leaving the dems over this betrayal. They have neither the will or courage to fight the battle that must be fought, and I will be looking to align with people who understand that we must uprise and force change because we are a citizenry without a voice.
Progressives were treated as utter and total shit by the President, in this process. The executive order reaffirming the Hyde amendment was grotesque. The strong arming of Kucinich.
I have had it. I am done with these people. I have tried to subscribe to the theory of influencing the democratic party from within, but the disdain and contempt shown to the progressive community in this process shows that we are not welcome except for our votes and money come election time.
It is third party time. It is time to end this lunancy of helping the corporate candidates take our power.
A people’s movement must be born.
The bill is a symptom of a much greater rot. Concentrate on alleviating symptoms and you will witness the patient die.
DR Dean was the flippiest flipper of this whole flipping bunch of Democrats.
great link!
Very interesting, and great information
No, I don’t want it to be a defeat for progressive change either. I like your idea.
I just believe those corporate Democrats that sold out their base and have proved time and time again that they don’t take us seriously really do need a wake up call.
And I think we’re just the ones that could provide that wake up call, if we’re willing.
It wouldn’t be easy though. Goes against our nature to work to defeat “Democrats,” but IMO, that message would get heard. Loud and clear. At least by some Dems. THen at least we know which Dems are which.
Sheer beauty –
Are you on facebook?
The low down deal from the start was rotten
Insurance Cartels and PhRMA not forgotten
took away, took away, took away
the upper hand.
I wish the prez wouldn’t shit me
booyah, booyah
In never land they’ll take their stand
to feed those lies for a trickster
Away, away, away up stocks for Cigna!
Ahhhh, I see you are one of those afflicted with the “mutant liberal gene” – heart in correct position, head…eh, not so much.
I think the part that is really scaring the crap out of you is the fact that you and millions like you would have to, you know, actually LEAVE the house and take to the streets.
Scaaaaaarrrrryyyyy! So, let’s just call it impossible and accept the crumbs we are thrown. At least we understand where the Obama philosophy of “cave first and hope to fight later” comes from – his base.
Either that or you like bend-over and cough thing…a LOT! Because that is all the Dems are going to deliver. Bake a crap cake with a cherry on top and tell everyone it’s their birthday. Riiiiiggghhht!
So perhaps you can tell ME – how is that hope and change, fighting-for-the-little-guy Democratic Majority working out for you these days?
And second question: Do you consider your current government one that represents you?
That’s pretty good for such short notice.
Maybe it would be appropriate for some on this site to study some US History on “reform”. One would suspect that JH would have opposed the re-election of Abe Lincoln because the first executive order issued by Lincoln called the “Emancipation Proclamation” only freed slaves in those states not returning to Union control by January 1, 1863. But undoubtedly Lincoln set in motion the move to abolish slavery. And as the premium rates continue to skyrocket we will need more progressive reform. Not whining about a finished product which is not present but only on the horizon. But that is what Obama has done. He has set the horizon for healthcare reform in the USA. And hopefully it will be achieved.
It’s a lot like climbing a mountain, you take advantage of every handhold, and when you find yourself at a dead-end, it doesn’t help to complain, you’ve just got to back up and try another route.
I feel the same frustration that you’re experiencing, but I truly believe that the education we’ve recieved along the way is of trendous worth for the fight ahead, and rest assured there is a fight ahead.
So, come on, admit it, you’re stronger now than when you started, and it doesn’t sound to me as if you’re about to give up, so you’re stuck with the same option; that’s to keep on pushing.
Yes, it’s hard to listen to right now, but it’s what you’ll be doing tommorrow.
oh puh-leeeze.
not only is your premise wrong, but what exactly are you trying to accomplish malinowski? You’ve got to know that the majority of people don’t agree with you, and you’ve also got to know that calling names isn’t going to win you any allies.
Essentially, you’re here to be a troll. Well, you’re doing a good job. At being a [Edited by Moderator].
Not to worry. The Senate will have it all fixed up by Nov 2nd. If not, we can stick our heads between our legs and kiss our collective asses good bye.
Thank you Jane, Jon, David and the rest of the FDL gang for your tireless work on behalf of real progressives. Keep up the good work.
PS I still would like to know the TRUE back story with Stupak.
THANK YOU!!
Well stated (except for the part at the end…???)
Anyway..**FANNED**
No debbie, not on facebook. Are you?
I’m often banned over at DU though. You might recognize an Orwellian_Ghost?
In any case, it’s single-payer or bust. This was an insurance bill not a people’s bill. Lots of folks in for a shock. People need to be paying attention to the overall context and understand that this is privatization cum laude and has little to do with providing health care even if that happens in small doses. Same is happening in all public sectors.
Dude, this sounds incredibly conspiracy freakish, but if Gore would have won in 2000, somehow or another Joe Liebermann would have become President.
thank you, now we begin to make the changes necessary to realize the dream of “affordable, accessible health care for all”
I suggested two options, which one did you pick?
I sure hope like hell you’re right and I’m wrong.
I don’t see it that way at all, but I’ve been wrong before, many many times. I hope like hell this one of those times too.
Just wanted to thank you, and FDL, for your collective honesty, care, principle and courage. I’ve been reading the site for awhile, but just joined today. I’m appalled by the collapse of the left on so many important issues related to health care reform; I’ve withdrawn my membership from MoveOn.
Keep fighting the good fight. Somehow.
We’re not “defending her perverseness”. We agree with her. You don’t agree with us. Okay, fine.
Agree, every word.
Except I think we need to defy the mandate once it’s implemented, AND IT WILL BE IMPLEMENTED, even though we gots ta soldier on as if yesterday’s vote really is just a first step in OUR direction. We need to challenge the mandate for what it is: illegal and unprecedented.
Aside from replying to letsgetitdone:
I have “old age” savings but no medical insurance. Am self-employed and doing fine supporting just myself day to day. I’m so healthy it makes me sick (l-o-l), I exercise, hydrate lots, and eat only grains, veggies, and a protien drink to go with all that exercise. I don’t want to be kept alive until I’m 98, moved to a nursing home to slump in my wheelchair in a puddle of pee all day every day, and I don’t want to slowly build up a kitchen countertop covered with prescription bottles till I have to use a pill divider to get all my meds took correctly 4 times a frickin’ day. I really, really-really, want to go naturally, better independent at 70 (leaving me only 10-and-a-half years to go) than prolonged by medicine and diapers to 98 and beyond. This HCR crime of Obama’s is going to force me to spend my savings on health insurance instead of my own comfort and wherewithal late in life. I won’t fall under any freebies as long as my savings account looks so nice, even though it’s a pathetic amount by a lot of standards. This HCR crime is going to change the entire status of my life and come between me and my self-determination. I’m just about ready to be a republican because of it. Whatever it takes to soldier on for real.
I won’t abide by the mandate as long as I’m self-employed, which I’m not always. If there is any means of being openly defiant of the mandate and going to jail, I am going to do that. Just one more check-mark in the “pro” column under Empty Nest: going to jail for something you believe in.
Thing is, they won’t work it that way. They’ll fine me. Their tentacles will feeler into my bank account and help themselves, while I hop indignantly up and down, Hippie Granny on the war path, chuckled at but mostly unheard.
I’ve been in the streets for the last 7+ years so you can take that shit and put it where the sun doesn’t shine, Sparky.
This bill may be gamed in a manner detrimental to the presumed winners!
http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/P1.html
Citizen OldFatGuy:
I’ve spent the last few days listenin’ to my kids and talkin’ to my neighbors, the closest is next door and she’s our ward city councilperson (and I been her unofficial and unpaid campaign manager and political “consultant”). I also kicked up my efforts in the county Democratic Party and there are gunna be a whole bunch of local issues and elections that are gunna provide the opportunity to keep people talkin about healthcare and economic security from the state and local perspective. Those who are sittin in their underwear, spewin’ out nihilistic snot on anyone who doesn’t wanna follow ‘em over a cliff aren’t worth a bit of yer time, Brother. Focus your anger and spend a little time locating the real enemies of the people…and you can start with those who would call Sister Hamsher a shameless narcissist.
stop that hopey shit OFG. You know better than that, – I know you do.
Sincerety is the mother lyricism.
I never understood why Medicare + Choice (Clinton) was replaced with Medicare Advantage in the MMA unless it did not give the HMO’s a greater cut. I thought Medicare + Choice was bad enough, with the “choice” part being buy private insurance or still take A & B. The HMO’s (and of course Pharms) had to have gotten a sweeter deal somehow out of Bush.
Regardless, the Dems could not bring up the MMA of 2003 to confront the R talking points against AHIP because some signed off on it too. Baucus comes to mind. Obama is just continuing to pave the way for the privatization of Medicare, and I would suspect they will completely figure out a way to eliminate Medicaid all together.
Except that this “reform” actually enslaves MORE people, not the other way around.
New CNN Poll released this morning on the legislation passed in the House last night:
39% Favor
59% Oppose
How long before we begin to see the consequences of passing a massive piece of legislation like this without a significant majority of the American public supporting it?
Astonishing…
“Consider this statement: “If I were a senator, I would not vote for the current health care bill. Any measure that expands private insurers’ monopoly over health care and transfers millions of taxpayer dollars to private corporations is not real health care reform.”
That statement is as true today as it was when Howard Dean, former chairman of the Democratic National Committee, made it three months ago in a Washington Post op-ed. But now, a concerted political blitz is depicting anyone who takes such a position as a menace to “real health care reform.”
“After devoting vast amounts of time, money, energy and political capital to banging the drum for the public option as absolutely vital during 2009 and through this winter, countless liberal organizations and prominent Democrats in Congress have made a short-order shift.
You are now to understand that the public option isn’t essential — it’s expendable. And all of a sudden, people who assert that a public option is a minimal requirement for meaningful health care reform are no longer principled — they’re pernicious.
This dynamic goes way beyond the routine malleability of political positions. While the whips crack on Capitol Hill, what we’re seeing is a stampede of herd doublethink.”
What I’m picking up: a few who are ready to say “Buh bye!” to Dem Party and either support a third party already in existence, or wish to try and get something else going; more who, though disgusted with the thing, and even the process, are deciding to keep within the party while “fighting on”; and those who are saying Hey, it’s a start, I’m alright with that, let’s see it as some kind of “victory” at the moment, even if it’s a small one.
Questions to possibly consider for those who may not have decided which way they’re going:
1. If the process of getting a bill passed is deceptive, misleading, and/or goes back on major campaign promises, can you be O.K. with that?
2. If the content of the bill passed contains parts you absolutely cannot support, and the chances of changing are near zero, or at most one or two on a ten point scale, can you be O.K. with that?
3. Trust meter: Where is it right now with the Dem Party on a scale of 0 – 10?
4. Do you see that changing in the future? If so, why would it change?
Reason I post: Perhaps taking a breath and getting clear in one’s own mind and heart, then going “deeper” re: why you would leave/remain/keep supporting the party…might help.
Wishing all well.
You could as easily say that Clinton did it 1993 or Truman or even Teddy Roosevelt. That horizon has been around a long time. Even if I were to accept Obama set the horizon, he did so completely inadvertently. His plan was to sellout to corporations and cut entitlements.
I agree. I can’t stomach anyone thanking Obama for this monstrosity. Obama came in with so much good will that if he had simply pitched Medicare of All, he would have had the public at his back immediately, and together, the President and the American people could have taken on the heartless, corporate beast.
But no, Obama immediately asked the Beast to define his signature legislation, and then proceeded to work tirelessly to defeat the progressives that tried to make this stinker a little more less stinky.
Now we are stuck with this pile of excrement. This is the bill Obama wanted.
I can’t thank him for depositing this smelly product at my door, just as I couldn’t thank a rapist after I have been raped. Thank Obama? No way.
One would think reading the “history” of health care “reform” would pretty much take that “hopefully” mindset and lingo away.
Oh yeah, thank you also to Ms Donna Edwards, for suggesting the perfect tool to show the corrupt uslessness of her own Progressive Caucus.
Your colleages must love you for that one, Donna.
: )
“With this turn of the “healthcare reform” screw, the Democratic Party will be cast — with strong evidence — as a powerful tool of corporate America. But the Democrats on Capitol Hill and the organizations eagerly whipping for passage are determined to celebrate the enactment of something called “healthcare reform.”"
Thank you for all your hard work on this, Jane. Excellent statement for going forward. As a casualty of the economic debacle of the past couple of years, I will not contribute to any politician, since at this point, none can be trusted; what little I can give will be directed here. Thanks again for your leadership.
Welcome and join in. As we say here, the water is fine.
DEMOCRACY for the elites, feudalism for the rest of us.
Citizen commonsensor:
I been out workin that “street” for a long time, Citizen, and most a those that I meet out there know exactly where their sufferin’ comes from and could tell ya real quick how much good marchin’ up on some politician’s lawn would do them or their family. Until I see you out there with your sleeves rolled up and your hands dirty, keep your armchair radical shit in your pants.
I like Karl, but I wouldn’t count on that.
” Obama came in with so much good will…”
Nope, he came in to serve the interests of the 1% of american establishment economic elites. Deserves a fucking Oscar on top of his ‘well deserved’ Nobel.
Another voice saying, well put, Jane Hamsher. A clear-eyed, concise, fair assessment of strengths and deficiencies. Thank you very much.
Rush said he was going to Costa Rica. I was sad to hear that since that is where I plan to go. they provide health care to all of their people and they do not force you into the private insurance companies.
Reminds me of Bush’s “time horizon” regarding Iraq. Just a nonsensical string of meaningless words. This same premise is basically being pushed by the cheerleaders on HIR. Heh.
I love how people can call supporters of this flawed bill like me “party hacks” when I couldn’t care less about the Democratic Party or America for that matter. I’m a citizen of the world, and I just want people to be healthy. I imagine the rest of them are just like me.
Don’t allow the leftist bloc of this country to be split, no matter what. Some will be more conservative and pragmatic, others will be more liberal and carefree. We have to move as one body, together.
S O L I D A R I T Y
appears that you’ve been working for the Corporate bottom line. Must be feeling quite accomplished today.
I don’t count on anything, but if you needed any more proof that this bill should have spent more time in the oven…
WOW!
that all I can say
All of this Health Care Kabuki was insane.
hear, hear.
thank you Jane. You and PDAmerica.org appear to be the only ones who held your ground.
I’d rather it dies…
This is why high-fiving is jaw-droppingly inappropriate for the President of the United States and his Chief of Staff.
High five? Fucking HIGH FIVE? What were you two, raised in a barn? Use the right fork at least.
Glad to have you here. Welcome !
You stick around, boy, the real conversation is just about to begin. We’ve just been treated to a concrete demonstration of how rigged against us the elctoral/legislative system really is. We can now have some serious discussions about more effecctive tactics. Finally.
Citizen fuckno:
Getcher weakassed, pseudo-revolutionary shit off my lawn, Citizen and pop a Valium and kick back on yer Lazyboy recliner…don’t have time for your lame nihilism.
No. I ‘ll fight weakminded sellouts wherever I can. I will not be associated with them.
Looks like Grayson made an ad buy ^ to look for suckers to hand him a “Moneybomb!”
Me too. This thing is a hairball.
Healthcare Legislation, Socialism, and Corporatism.
three words:
Donna fucking Edwards.
How long?
Try November.
The first Emancipation Proclamation only “freed” slaves in the Confederacy and thereby did not actually “free” anybody at the time it was first issued. It has even been criticized as pure politics in an attempt to destabilize the Confederacy.
I am of the view that the current healthcare reform will destabilize the status quo. And sure the insurance companies presently remain in control and for sometime in the future. But there demise is coming. Just wait when the screaming starts about the increased premiums which will be charged to insure pre-existing conditions. More reform in the form of a public option. Just wait.
and you have to admit, for Jane to say anything good about this, had to be very difficult. And Michael Moore having to job on the winning band wagon, was really unreal.
Congratulations Jane for a hard battle well fought.
Denninger does good work and has interesting ideas but he goes off on loony tangents. The key point is that costs are not going to be contained and they are already unsustainable. Most people don’t have Denninger’s expertise and so won’t know how to reverse game the system. They will make their decisions based on their personal situations. Most will continue for as long as they can with their employer provided plans.
Amen.
The page is scwewy! Reply buttons wiggy, text above running into text below. Whassamatter with it?
Thank you for that. And everything else you’ve ever written.
No, insurance companies will just cut the amounts they’ll pay, and receive an increased subsidy from the government. It’s over, just wait.
weeek.
Clintons? They are the “managed care” folks. Have yu experienced that misery?
Ack?
“THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew.
THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist.
THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.
THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up.”
M.N.
I don’t disagree, but this is just the beginning for legally thwarting the mandate, and it’s the mandate and use of the IRS that will ultimately bring this thing down. IMHO
Well since Rush is going to Costa Rica maybe he can take nutjob Grayson along with him. I realize they’re at opposite ends of the spectrum but….no wait a minute. Can you give me a few bars of the Odd Couple theme?
Rush and Grayson….how odd a couple could you ask for?
But who is Felix? Rush I suppose.
Have fully intended to pay the mandate penalties, use the money I’ve made gaming the stock-market based on the politics of this issue to cover any immediate-need catastrophe, and in the event of a chronic condition just go out and buy a policy to soak the insurance company.
Ever since I saw how they were structuring the mandate penalties, it’s the only thing that made any sense to me at all. There’s exactly zero reason to go out and buy insurance, unless it’s significantly cheaper than the penalty.
My only concern is that the establishment will wise up to this reality quickly.
Unless the coming depression takes care of that first.
“It is to President Obama’s credit that he was willing to commit his office to such a challenge when others before him had failed.”
You still don’t get it. He mandates a transfer of wealth from individuals to insurance corporations (who likely invested heavily in those failed mortgages and, unlike Goldman Sachs, which ‘converted’ itself into a banking status to take advantage of easy access to capital to bail itself out of bankruptcy) and calls it health care/insurance. Any one of those provisions you name that are worth keeping, were worth legislating independently, too. As for pre-existing conditions, well, Dr. Howard Dean rejected this plan because while it mandated coverage for pre-existing conditions, it failed to cap the premiums that could be charged as a percentage of regular policies. He called this ‘a bigger bailout for the insurance companies than AIG.’ http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/health-cares-passage-means-10167359 Courage? He could not care less. He cannot run again in 2012 because state ballot laws have tightened up and now, election officials will require documentary proof of the D Certification of Nomination. This leaves him with only one term to steal what he can for his corporate benefactors.
And then, there are those pesky polls which show the public overwhelmingly rejected this tripe.
In other words, I understand the people who want to just refuse to pay the mandate as a matter of principle, but the smart money is on gaming the system that’s just been hoisted onto you; until they bolster the penalties that is.
There’s that.
That’s sickly cynical, imo.
My point is that horizon has been out there for a century. I don’t see this POS healthcare bill bringing it any closer.
What you describe is part of the true insidiousness of using the IRS to force people to purchase private insurance. The fact that an insurance company can easily turn anyone down, with a small fine, but can use the agency that brought down Capone to enforce their profit margins. The fact that they will be able to protect their profits by forcing higher co-pays and larger deductions will be blissfully ignored by the overseeing bean counters.
Using the same logic why not get rid of SS and apply the same mechanism to mandating 401k investments or some other thing that people should purchase for their own good? Perhaps government bonds. Maybe just they haven’t thought of that yet.
Using the IRS, with it’s powers and ability to render it’s own autonomous justice to protect private companies, was a stroke of corporate genius.
OMG, I hadn’t seen this. These figures AFTER the vote are even more disparate than Rasmussen figures, BEFORE. We Americans really DO care about process…
It said “in response to CarlyCorday” on my screen. It did!
Hope my stuff isn’t broken–ACK.
Nobody else got text all running together in this thread?
Ok, I’m shushing then.
Not gonna happen the way yu suggest. The private insurance companies will not significantly lower their margins by paying doctors less. They already have tried that and incurred the wrath of the AMA. The problem here was not Obama. It was 20 years of Clintons and Bushes and a Congress with a 784k average annual income per member. Change we can believe in is coming, Get on the hope train. Did Obama say that?
I thought that all started in the 70′s with the Health Maintenance Organization Act?
And the winner is?
If you are still wondering take a look at the health business stock prices.
For example the HMO index has risen about 75 % since the lows a year ago.
The SP 500 and the Dow are up about 40% in the same time period.
The health bidness has nearly doubled its increase over other bidness. They invested their money wisely, not in health care but in congress.
If this wasn’t possible before passage, how will it be so afterward? Indeed, as result of this passage into utter hell, public options, reproductive rights, removal of the mandate, and so on now are peered with single-payer and medicare for all. They were rendered equally off the table for decades to come.
The French system started during the Revolution. This is pointed in the video I posted on Seminal last night. Something to think about as people look to the future.
Excellent. You touched on all of the important issues. I admire and respect you and FDL for your efforts. Thanks so much.
It looks like Dem success in the 2010 midterms will depend on the turnout of Village Progs, insurance industry execs and their shareholders.
http://www.google.com/finance?catid=us-52935503
I like reading what Karl has to say unless it gets too close to a purely political issue. Global warming, health care and even leaving the gold standard are subjects that cause him to become a bit unhinged. Like most fairly smart investors he sees other people’s weaknesses as a necessary requirement to successful profit taking. Kind of tints his perspective.
“Perhaps that is the best that can be achieved within our current system. If so, that is a sobering reality.”
Is this really the best? Is Obama doing the best he can?
Once there was a sprawling empire with a lot of problems. One man, more or less singlehandedly, bloodlessly, persuaded the empire to dismantle itself. The entire world breathed with boundless hope. I am talking about, of course, Gorbachev. In a system that was inifinitely more closed than ours, where the population could be kept in check by mere brute force, one man decided upon a different course and got it done. (That the country was subsequently hijacked is another story, but at that point it could gone in any number of directions.)
Here, we have a President, with unlimited access to the media and the people. We have a President who is supposed to have launched the most savvy PR campaign for his election. If he truly had a message for the people, I have no doubt he could have used his savviness and the communication medium to energize the population. He did not. He used his savviness to get what he REALLY wanted, and got it by going behind the scenes and cutting secret deals we will never hear about.
IMHO, what is truly possible, and what actually got accomplished do not even begin to compare.
Did OFA create new memes to sell Obama as the greatest or just take the same ones off the fridge and put them in the bathroom so you can see them when you take your first piss of the day? I have seen 3 here today so far. 1) Equating the Emancipation Proclamation to insurance reform (what a slap in the face that one is). 2) It’s a Clinton’s fault. 3) Achievement in civil rights (what another slap in the face). 4) #3 forgets that civil rights equates to women too and that King wasn’t too keen at all on capitalism.
Arundhati Roy on Obama’s Wars, India and Why Democracy Is “The Biggest Scam in the World”
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/3/22/arundhati_roy_on_obamas_wars_india
We may see mandated 401k’s as well as other little goodies designed to part us from our money. This health insurance monstrosity is only the beginning.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2010/01/us-government-is-eyeing-your-401ks-and.html
The ticker-thing running at bottom of screen on one of the cable news channels quoted one of the dem reps, I THINK it was Pelosi, as saying that this vote on this bill, ESPECIALLY the mandate, is in keeping with the Founding Fathers’ intentions because it will make us healthier so that we can better pursue happiness.
Googled and googled, can’t find it anywhere, and the ticker only showed it ONCE.
What else will they decide we be mandated to do in order to be in keeping with our founding fathers’ commandment that we pursue happiness OR ELSE?
If anyone else saw that, and knows who said it, please post.
Don’t think we are taling about the same thing. I went to a seminar somewhere where I had to sit through listening to Hilliary Clinton expound the virtues of “managed care”. Sometime in the early 90s.
She was about as progressive, helpful and genuine as Chris Bowers (who dumped even a PO which he refused to even define last Summer) on this whole sorted affair.
She and Grayson were my favorites going in and my greatest disappointments now that this part of the race is over.
Thanks for that chart. I punched the 5 year graph to see that after the elction sickness stocks took a steeper dive than the market perhaps wall street thinking that the election of dems might mean something.
To be fair it looks like a wash over the 5 year period.
http://www.google.com/finance?catid=us-52935503
(I know what’s wrong with the page. Granny had it ZOOMED to 125%.)
The concept and actually “Act” of “managed care” again started in the 70′s.
I’m not sure how that strategy works if you’re employed by a decent sized company though. Remember how they’re firewalled off from the Exchange? What happens if you turn down your company’s plan until you get sick? Are they required to take you at that point, or do you have to wait until the next open enrollment period?
I stopped counting at your response back to another hijacked thread but as I said yesterday, this place is becoming a waste of time with everyone answering the people who only come here to disrupt.
This thread was hijacked at the third comment and up to here, #114, I had counted 30 back and forths that had absolutely nothing to do with anything except help this a-hole disrupt the thread. That’s 26% of the responses wasted because someone came here, threw some feces at Jane, and others decided they had to run to her defense thereby getting other hijackers involved.
Have fun folks. It ain’t worth my time any more.
“How do we take on the corporate interests? They’re not only having their way with HCR, but with every aspect of our political life. Every issue. They win every time.”
“Are we going to continue fighting the proximate symptoms, or are we going to address the underlying disease.”
How do we? One way is to start the fight as an individual. Vote with your dollars by supporting local economies, reduce your own consumption of needless items and goods, eat healthy local organic food, work your way down the corporate ladder so you have more time devoted to family…and attempt to break out of the corporate system as much as possible. Reducing your own personal consumption…that keeps us enslaved to the system is a start. Eventual Single Payer Health Care will go a long way to help individuals do this. In the mean time, reduce consmption and look after your own mind, body and soul as much as possible. Squeeze out the profiteering corporations and build a new economy of local jobs based on basic needs.
LOL. That would surely do it.
Dear Jane,
Brilliant observation’s and very well said, and at a time in History when truth is practically non-existant.
“Never before has the government mandated that its citizens pay directly to private corporations almost as much as they do in federal taxes, especially when those corporations have been granted unregulated monopolies.”
We have just witnessed one of the worst fuck-ups in the history of these United States: a purely evil act against Health Care reform. Did our so-called leaders allow the pundits to define victory at any price or was it a planned rip-off from the start?
The original (as far as we know) Athenian Democracy was light-years more perfect than our version, and only survived for approx. 300 years, so what are we going to do?
Whatever we do, God Bless all whom refuse to be suck-ass.
I propose a Constitutional Amendment that revokes a second Executive Branch term. Some people believe that it is all about the President, when it is supposed to be about the People, too many wrong things have been done in the name of winning two terms or being remembered as a “loser”. We should always be focusing on right-now, for the best possible future to be able to happen.
It ain’t over yet. It has just begun.
ajmc
Thank you Jane, for a clear, precise and beautifully written summary of where we are now on this issue, and the challenges we face. And even more, for being able to express yourself without rancor, bitterness, or fatigue, despite the lack of most of the changes you have been fighting for. You have led us so long, so intelligently, and so tirelessly that I stand in awe. Would that it had turned out better! I’m sure that you are thinking about what the next best step is, and I look forward to hearing from you about it.
Bravo to you Jane, and bravo again!
Thank you, tanbark. We have had some good rows, eh?
That is the fun of it though. Gotta keep it lively. Thanks for being a good sport!
Please. I had to sit through the Clintons’ BS about how “managed care” or some form thereof was the Clintons plan to cut healthcare costs through the PRIVATE INSURANCE SYSTEM and would be a part of “Hillarycare”. It was all crap. What happened in the 70s happened. I am referring to the Clintons nonsense that time around when we were trying to get healthcare reform in the first Clinton adminstration.
Thanx be to Obama that we finally got “something” done. The pre-existing conditions component, in my view, is going to destabilize the private insurance industry.
Even one has jangled nerves after the last month and I hope things will settle down now. Have to release all that tension.
Very pithy analysis.
To which I would just add, those who want to fight harder to bring the Dems left should realize that even if their benevolent view of the party’s heart were based in fact (it isnt!), after Citizen’s United you’d be asking them to commit suicide by abandoning the coming tsunami of corporate election spending entirely to the Rethugs. Ain’t gonna happen.
It’s time to go extra-systemic, and we should start having a real discussion of our options in that arena.
Jane’s a heroic hero, and did the best she could in the political sewer, and the silver lining is that we should all realize that if these were the best results her tactics could produce, then we NEED NEW TACTICS.
I think the most significant change to the legislation would be the ERISA waiver. I live with Exchanges. They are not this wonderful thing people seem to think they are. Indeed, the people I know who are young, healthy and wealthy enough skip the Exchange buy from brokers.
I don’t think MoveOn and the Unions running thank you ads for Democrats is going to help in any effort to “fix” this bill. There seems to me to be a three way split now, the people who want it fixed with the PO, the people who would like to see it fixed but are not going to do anything about it at all except to thank the Democrats, and those old experts from the PNHP and the California Nurses Association, who don’t think the private market plan will work and their supporters. I don’t know how these groups can learn to work together, but it certainly won’t help to ignore the experts as they have been involved in pushing real health care reform for the longest time.
Oops. Saw another meme at #57.
Excelon Corp knew him real well. The climate change bill is right around the corner you know? Paying the piper with tax payer dollars for new Nuclear plants is already here. But guess ya’ll will start saying louder and louder the old “transitional energy” meme to cover up that one.
Hi, I’m late to the wake. A very simple, eloquent and classy statement by Jane. I am proud to be part of this site.
Time to join the anti Shock Doctrine troops. I’m reading Naomi Klein’s book that she wrote between “No Logo” and “The Shock Doctrine”. It’s called “Fences and Windows.” They put up fences and we must find the windows to democracy. She, among others, called this a long time ago. And now we are seeing the elements of Milton Friedmanism that as she said, “slithered out of the basements of the U of Chicago”. Privatize all public commons, deregulate corporations, and eliminate all social programs. These are the tenets of shock therapy.
The anti corporate movement was on the rise and then it got beaten back after 9/11 with the call for all patriotic Americans to shop. Save “Nike”, “Exxon, and McDonalds” for the good of the globe. Ha. Ha.
Latin America has been through shock therapy and I look south for some kind of hope and inspiration of non centralized pockets of freedom.
Nice piece. The most heartbreaking thing for me was a guy who was swept in on an unprecedented wave of populism, with people really expecting special interests to be confronted, revealed himself to be a corporate toady. So did a lot of other populist Democrats.
Obama was my last hope for getting over my cynicism that our country is bought and paid for by its (as George Carlin used to call them) “owners” — the corporations. But now I’ve lost hope.
LOLOLOL…Yes, if only Bill had embraced Orin Hatch’s alternative plan we could have gotten this done years ago.
Polling was done by Opinion Research Corporation Mar 19-21, and released this morning (Noon Eastern). It’s not that easy to find at the CNN website…I’m guessing that’s intentional.
You have to dig for it in the “CNN Political Ticker”…it’s not up with the rest of the health care reform coverage on their main page.
Wonder why not…?
What, do you think you are going to get a PPO off the exchange? Please.
Absolutely the wrong tone to take.
However, I too must admit to pausing while reading the article by Ms Hamsher. It sounds like reaching out to the D-party to fix things problems the D-party itself has created. I cannot help but remember Obama reaching out to the R-party for bipartisan support and consensus at every turn, no matter how many times they spurned and ridiculed him. (Being Mr. Nice Guy? Maybe?) Am I alone in thinking that the D-party is deaf to the public, and that there is no point in reaching out to it? Is there any doubt that, having tasted success with this bill, harder and more punishing bills are around the corner? Is there any point in being Mr (or Ms) Nice Guy? I do wish I could say, Yes, there is still Hope. But I don’t know.
Well said, Canadianbeaver!
Jane, thank you for this. I was hoping you’d issue a statement.
Yeah, you may be right about that.
When folks get hit with the discovery that they’re still getting dropped and/or charged multiple times what others are for pre-existing conditions, the outrage over that might just destabilize the private insurance industry.
Wow.
THanks for this. Slap of reality in my face.
I’ve been responding to them out of frustration of late too, and not very adult like.
My apologies for having been part of that which you describe.
I’m going to try to do better.
As for a third party, may I suggest trying to take over the more or less dormant Reform Party leftover from the Perot days. I’m sure there are political strategists who know how to mount a campaign to take over local chapters, can find loopholes or procedures in the party’s by-laws, ways to elect local chapter activists who then get to vote at the state party convention, etc.
There are two nice things about this strategy:
a) It has the perfect name;
b) It is already registered and established in many states, and may have already jumped over various regulation hurdles for getting on the ballot.
Here’s my thing, and I hope I’m not just shouting into the wind; I completely understand being frustrated and disappointed with Democrats over the way this bill turned out. I admit it could have been miles better; I mourn the lack of a public option, and I’m no fan of being forced to buy insurance. And yes, a lot of this is probably the result of Democrats being more beholden to insurance companies and special interests than the American people and their own campaign promises, and yes, this probably includes Obama as well. All of that is bad and should be criticized, and we should be working on (or continuing to work on) strategies to counteract it.
But, when I hear people hoping that Democrats lose power because of this, then I have to wonder where the train of logic jumped the tracks. Again, let me clarify. I have no problem with refusing to support the Democratic Party as a whole. I have no problem with primarying candidates on a case-by-case basis when it’s feasable and helpful to progressive causes (alternatively, anyone talking about primarying Kucinich will get a big old laugh right in their face from me, just as an example). But let’s not start rooting for Republicans just because we’re mad at the Democrats. The Democrats may be irreparably corrupt; the Republicans are irreparably corrupt and batshit insane. We let them in office, and a lot more people will be hurt. More unnecessary wars, more lax regulations, more cutting of benefits–we’ve been down this road. We need to keep these people out of office, and if there’s no way to avoid that other than voting for Democrats who’ve screwed us, so be it. It may be satisfactory as hell to root for the Dems’ destruction, but in the long run we’ll really be hurting no one but ourselves.
As for third parties, man, the day there is a viable third party out there who can get candidates into state and federal office, I will be the first one in line to vote for them. But that just doesn’t exist now, and there’s no indication it will magically come into being anytime soon. As bad as the Democrats are, and as angry at them as we can be at any given time, they are vastly preferable to Republicans in office. That’s just common sense. Let’s not get so carried away by our emotion that we lose sight of that fact.
Well, here’s the thing.
You say (and list all the reasons) why you’re frustrated and disappointed with the Democratic Party.
Then you insist we still support the Democratic Party.
So, we support the Democratic Party, and they frustrate and disappoint again.
And we support them again.
Are you really unable to see a pattern here?
Do you really believe doing the same thing over and over again will somehow produce different results?
I believe I was clear in stating that the way I see it, you use every possible technique to achieve your aim, if it is possible to change the party from within (which I doubt), then do that.
If you find another place that you can gain leverage then you must do that too.
Don’t overlook the fact that we’ve gained a lot of understanding of our enemy, and we’re not anywhere near as vulnerable to lies as we were only one year ago.
I’m not in any mood to celebrate either, but it doesn’t mean I can’t take some small consolation in our collective maturation.
I believe the number of trolls that have showed up here recently are an indication that someone thinks we’ve become more of a problem, and I think that’s true.
This is too good. Listen to what Robert Kuttner wrote on HuffPo. Need a good laugh? This is it: (emphasis added.)
It has taken more than fourteen months for Obama to vindicate as president the leadership potential that we saw on the campaign trail; fourteen months to give up on the fantasy of bipartisanship; fourteen months to start truly inspiring ordinary people as he did as a candidate. But in the springtime of March 2010, we have seen a president who evidently has learned how to lead, who relishes winning, and who is primed to become a more effective progressive. For that we should be grateful. It should whet his appetite as a fighter — and ours.
I saw her say it last night.
Perhaps it might be a good idea to have or update a list of blogs and places that got this right (as admittedly short as such would be), as well as those that got it disastrously wrong. This might help support efforts to withdraw support and attention from the latter in favor of the former instead.
Maybe we can get some of the more progressive of them to sign pledges or something. Oh, wait a minute….
S-C-R-O-L-L
lol.
Yeah, that worked. spit
It isn’t that at all. The D-party merely feels that it has to respond to the “swing voters” it has created while listening to the cheering section it has made of the “progressives.”
A third party candidate in the Northeast does not look like a third party candidate in the deep south.
Madison, Wisconsin has Tammy Baldwin, who has been a huge disappointment. Primarying her would make a lot of sense, because you know you will get a liberal out of Madison.
The idea that we have to build some massive third party is contradicted by the success Stupak had with about ten other Dems.
George Wallace did not have nearly as much success in blocking integration, as the white supremacists who stayed inside the Democratic party, Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond.
thanks for the clarification, I guardedly agree.
Really late to this thread, but I wanted to vigorously second this suggestion.
Stopped paying attention to that shill 8 months ago.
Take a look at the vote, assimilated is what happens when you join that cesspool.
So the newest topic degradation is on topic degradation.
Dang I hate that lack of discipline, which is why I took that speed-reading class in high school. (Pretty much mandatory as I recall.) Actually many folks have veered off because this topic has a lot of implications. Having scrolled through discussions about pets and food a few times in the past this one appears pretty much on track to me.
Herding unhappy cats.
So do I. Most vigorously and emphatically.
Well, as a physician I interpret the bill as another way to shift more of the people’s wealth to the drug and equipment manufacturers (the same corps. who have driven the costs of healthcare through the stratosphere in the first place) while further underpaying me/us for taking care of the “government’s” (medicare) patients. The American people are being slow-cooked like frogs. First Wall Street got tax monies for bad performance when they should have gone bankrupt for the same; now Pfizer, et. al. will get more of our money which they will use to further induce demand for their profit-conceived organic chemistry into the minds of the TV-hypnotized masses.
I’ve had enough of this crap. I personally have every intention of taking my 20 years of education and experience to another country and serving another population who might actually appreciate what I do for them instead of threaten me for it (state it as it really is – tort reform was never even considered in this bill/process becaused Obama and reps. are largely a group of lawyers). And the $100K+ in student loans I still owe at the age of 40 can be paid for by YOU in the next round of bailouts at taxpayer expense, to save the private bank which assumed my loans from the gov’t in the first place. Think of it as a copay I “forgot” to mail in to your billing service.
Jane wrote: “…decide to take on the corporate interests that are corrupting our political institutions and strangling their ability to provide affordable healthcare to everyone.”
Jane, isn’t the government inherently a bunch of corporate interests and vice-versa, and hasn’t it been that way for a long time? Why do reasonable people want a government to take care of them? This country is getting the healthcare system that it deserves – real hard.
hope you’ll be commenting here more frequently.
Well done, Jane. I’m with you going forward.
I’m deeply troubled by how the left caved on what is watered down Republicanism. All just to score a political victory. It appears that, to many on the left, politics is bloodsport. I’ve been wondering how I’m going to get in the trenches with some of these people (not refering to the Firepups here) in future battles when I know they’ll wave the white flag when the going gets tough. Moveon, for example. I left Moveon about a month ago.
I look forward to reading ideas from liberals on how liberals should proceed. You sure as hell won’t find that at Kos.
Unfortunately, that only makes sense when both teams play fair. Not when one team armtwists/bribes the referee into its camp.
Why do you always INSIST on acting like a creepy troll? FYI – it drives people away from Jane’s site, which in the end, hurts the site. Just sayin….
If you HAD been on the streets [Edited by Moderator] – you WOULD be having conversations with me (face-to-face) on a regular basis. Me and the other oh, 20 whopping people who bother to leave the damn house.
So STOP with the childish B.S. – you don’t own the board, STOP with the holier-than-liberal-crap since I doubt you have participated in anything other than an online bitch fest or hit-and-run name calling.
AND STOP CALLING ME A DUDE!!!!! You ASSume waaaaayyyyy too much.
Precisely — there will be heavy paying of the mandate fines.
Just another example of how the village uses its influence to move the goalposts on what gets defined as what.
Otherwise, the sheeple out there might one day hear the political term “progressive” and wonder if those ideas are any good. “Oh well, those are Obama’s ideas. He’s a progressive. No need to go there.”
It really is hard to overcome all the obstacles real people have to fight to make change in this country.
I really may be losing hope.
It’s only a victory if you don’t look too carefully at what the bill actually does, or if you’re a (corporate) recipient of that mandate penalty money.
Huh. Come to think of it, I already pay way more in health insurance than I do in federal taxes.
Thank you, Jane for your hard work and dedication in this battle. You have provided a much-needed beacon of sanity and hope.
It/he/she’s a die hard Deaniac, the ultimate flip-flopping-fire eater of the DNC(ircus),- ought to tell us something about Norske.
I think they all just want to feel some form of schadenfreude when the Republicans dissect this bill and the voters discover that there is no real Democratic Party response. It will in fact (as you point out) be a tragedy when the Democrats lose because they have ceded most of the talking points behind health care reform (as well as the economy, etc.) for the sake of corporate $$.
What should have been done, when the bill was still being stripped of anything decent, is that all progressives should have resigned (unregistered) from the D-party, and sounded the dreaded N-word: NADER (or take your pick of any other dreaded word.) This congress will do nothing for the people, simply because it has nothing to fear from them.
Once again:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/14/804164/-Fundamental-flaws-in-progressive-ideology
Published over at Orange of all places!
damn fucking right.
As I stated in the thread yesterday, it’s called ACCOUNTABILITY.
It’s hard for me to understand what’s happened in this country where no one must be held accountable for anything.
Bush/Cheny tortured, war criminals? “We must look to the future.”
Democrats shit on their base and their very PLATFORM! “We must still support Democrats.”
I’d be lying if I said I wouldn’t experience a bit of dark joy at seeing them lose this year, but that’s not what it’s about.
ACCOUNTABILITY.
When we stopped holding folks/organizations no longer accountable, I’m not sure. But I’m not buying into it.
And Bush/Cheney and especiall Yoo should be facing criminal charges. That’s accountability.
Nice, I’m banned at the OrangeGutan so double down on your efforts.
I fully intend to keep on pushing, just not as a member of the Democratic party.
I’m an FDL old-timer whose off-line life has sharply curtailed my participation on-line. Hopefully the winds will shift again fairly soon and I’ll be around more often ; )
“As bad as the Democrats are, and as angry at them as we can be at any given time, they are vastly preferable to Republicans in office”
Last time I looked, we’re still at war, Guantanamo’s still open, habeus corpus hasn’t been restored, nuclear power has been revived, Wall Street owns Congress….tell me again what’s different??
The Dems need to lose badly, and also to know WHY they lost….try writing in Paul Wellstone’s name; they’ll get the message.
hope to see you soon, place needs more sobriety, and less DNC/DLC Kool-aide.
Wow. Thanks for that link.
And great, great article there.
If Jane weren’t speaking the truth, she wouldn’t be infuriating her fellow “progressive” bloggers, would she?
People who tell the truth always infuriate the defenders of the status quo.
Well, we have a President who has pledged to stop the war in Iraq. Regardless of whether you believe him or not, that’s what he’s said. Guantanamo’s still open, but some inmates have been released, and we’re not continuing to imprison additional people without trial. We were able to mount a decent, competent rescue mission in Haiti vis-a-vis Katrina. Now I’m sure there are plenty of things to find fault with there. But the bottom line is that a Democratic government, however corrupt, is still wholly better for America than a Republican one.
And I just don’t agree with the premise of your last sentence. The Democrats didn’t get that message in 1994, 2000, 2002, or 2004; why would they now?
I’m not part of any “block”. I support what’s worthy of support and leave the rest.
Pravda should be green with envy!
This was a great post, like all of Jane’s work over the past year on this issue. I take issue with one point, previously raised by Marcy Wheeler:
“Never before has the government mandated that its citizens pay directly to private corporations almost as much as they do in federal taxes…”
While it was not a mandate per se, the 1956 Eisenhower Highway Act, with its creation of the Highway Trust Fund and the 90 : 10 funding formula, and the absence of equivalent funding for public transport, essentially locked citizens into the same effect. Within 10 years of passing this act, the Federal government had essentially forced most citizens not living in Manhattan to tithe large portions of their income to the automobile industry just to be able to have access to day-to-day life.
So this mandated transfer of resources to large corporations in the current health bill is not entirely without precedent, as despicable as it is.
You make a point, and obviously we need a plan B. But what is it? Support a third party? What third party? Work to change the Dem party from within? We’re working on that, but it’s a slow process to say the least. Until we have a viable alternative, and as long as the Republicans remain batshit crazy, then yes, I say do everything we can to keep them out of power. Even if it means supporting Democrats we hate. It’s simple self-preservation.
Tell that to the incrementally boiled frog.
Um, which frog are we talking about? And is this a frog that will be well served under a Republican administration?
Ok, that’s cool.
But as far as plan B goes, IMO, it goes something like this.
Eventually a significant enough portion of “the base” decides to hold them accountable the same way their coporate donors hold them accountable. The corporate donors keep them in line by withholding their $$$ if they don’t behave. For us, we withhold our votes. As you can plainly see, the strategy works really well for the corporate donors.
But when a significant enough portion of us do this, then they will be faced with a new reality. The reality of winning elections without us. So, they can then choose to do the easy thing, which would be to finally move back towards the base and start rewarding them, or they will have to move further right (not far though) and compete with Republicans for the center-right vote.
I’m ok with either of those. Because with the second, the void open on the left side of the political spectrum will be so big and untapped that the demand will require a third party emerge. And that third party will have the advantage of going against the other two that are basically splitting the right.
It won’t happend overnight. But, IMO, the Democrats just miracously changing and deciding to come to their base isn’t ever going to happen unless something forces it to.
You’re in the cesspool when you pay your federal taxes. If you choose to file, but not pay your federal taxes, you have my deepest respect. Please publish that in the Seminal.
You have responsibilities. Your tax dollars support torture, rendition, war, pollution …. .
Every single move Ike made was from the perspective of Military Advantage, according to the specs of those days, and always in the best interests of the United States, and the People of the United States.
what a pity that the best Ike could do regarding the “Military Industrial Complex” was to warn us and then basically kick the can down the road.
Perhaps we can do better, with our challenges.
Jane, what you are doing takes great moral courage and I am grateful for your work. You deserve the support of all progressives. Whether we agree or disagree, on this or that particular issue, we can always count on you to stand firm for sound public policy and the spirit of progressivism. So many people have been bought off, in one or another currency, and it is a damn shame. But we have always been able to count on you.
That’s probably the most effective ‘push’ you can give in that direction.
I’d guess they’re going to have a much harder time raising money from here on out, which if recent history is any indication, will cause them to double down on stupid.
I think we’re fast approaching the point where the corporations and rich shareholders are going to be the only source for campaign cash, and if so, what does that say about how effective campaign advertising aimed at a 98.5% hostile audience can be?
The political parties will soon be spending $billions just to make believe we are listening.
FDL user “Mellifluous”, in the last comment of Jane’s 100% prescient (and spot on) diary The Baucus Caucus: PhRMA, Insurance, Hospitals and Rahm had this to say, & I think it bears repeating:
Why in the HELL aren’t We, the People, defined as at least part of “stakeholders?” If we’re not stakeholders, then let the stakeholders hold the stake while we drive it through their hearts.
I agree with you, it is going to take tons of corporate dollars to turn these lies into reality.
Well, I think your second option is more likely than the first. But it’s your money, and I’m not going to tell you what to do with it. I do worry about the damage another Republican administration could do in the interim, but I guess that’s something that’s largely out of our control.
…….We who are voters must clearly communicate in November that we will… nope – in the PRIMARIES or it will be to late
Unfortunately, I find I’m worried about the damage a Democratic administration is going to do.
There is no future in the Democratic Party.
you’re getting your info from the establishment’s ministry of illusion. Look elsewhere.
I agree. We are going to come out of this way further right of center in economic policy than the Dems have ever been. And with the Hyde Amendment and new conscious clause protections to corporations it is getting hard to say the party is even centrist on social issues with a straight face.
deeply and painfully aware of that, – which is also why I do not support the one party system.
Not sure why I should take your argument seriously when there’s no substance to it, or how your one-sentence rebuttal contradicts my basic premise.
Hillary had cost controls – this Obamacare has none – and that is why it passed. No corporation in health care “loses” under Obama care and indeed the pot to share is a bit larger
Hillary’s HMO idea was 2 years early – when HMO transition was later taking place, health care cost stabilized for the two year transition period – and she wanted companies to get less profit. Silly liberal progressive. With Obama we avoided Hillary and silly, albeit “moderate” liberal progressive ideas – and got Romney coverage expansion with no pain for any corporation.
Congressman Grayson says Obamacare puts a health care framework “in place”
I disagree.
While not “universal” there appears to be enough coverage expansion to get folks thinking of health care as an entitlement, and that is a step forward.
But it is a 2014 start up for most things – and getting those wasted welfare payments to insurance companies turned into affordability payment reductions on buy-in Medicare for a basic health care coverage plan is going to be a heavy lift. The percentage of GDP health care cost was 17% going to 21% pre-bill and is now 17% going to 21% of GDP post bill – a contrast to other western countries at half that cost percentage and they end up with better outcomes – and our post bill system continues to be an economic killer of our competitiveness in the world market place.
A public option meant there was some hope of avoiding economic disaster – as it is now with the bill passed w/o any cost controls in it, Obama as the engineer of the health care reform train means we are on a train that has not even slowed down as it approaches the cliff.
and they’ll still have tons to spare. Each of Goldman’s dollars is leveraged over 3000 times.
you can start with, Necessary Illusions, Manufacturing Consent, The Shock Doctrine. When you’re done, I’ll happily expand this list for you.
No one really needs to debate you, you made your bed – lie in it. We all know what happened here, and the part those like you played in it. You got a little ‘issue’? Suffer.
Interesting diary. Obviously I wasn’t the target of the link but the presentation was well done.
(Not trying to change the thread.) :)
Jane had more balls then all the men in Congress on this issue. Bravo to her that she is still telling it like it is, not the fantasized version of it, the rest of you want to believe it is. Nothing has changed, this bill sucks shit through a straw and were all now FORCED to deal with it as the new Status Quo. Her congrats to the winners is just her showing that she is a good sport even in defeat. Your rude arrogance in coming here and trying to define her negatively just because she didn’t march to the Obamarahma drumbeat on this issue, says more about you then her.
.
I’ve read Chomsky, thanks. I’m still not sure where he wrote that a Republican administration is better for American then a Democratic one.
Apparently being a true progressive means lucidity is optional.
you need to first scrape the teflon from your gray matter, before ‘reading’ Chomsky.
You know I haven’t read Chomsky.
I haven’t read any of those books that you listed either.
I think it’s about god damned time I do.
Are there others to recommend besides those 3 you listed above?
(I admit I’ve been WANTING to read Shock Doctrine for a long time, just never have.)
You’re a natural Humanist OFG.
I’d suggest:
1. Third World Traveller: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/
2. YouTube Chomsky, lay back and, well – you’ll tell me.
3. ZNet : http://www.zcommunications.org/znet
Bravo Jane! Excellent article. You succinctly communicated everything I’ve been feeling since last night.
On a childish note, it was kind of fun to poke a stick in the Republicans eye!!
Not a fan of Chomsky myself. Et al might find this interesting, there are a couple free chapters. A while ago he had half the book up, which was good imo.
http://www.oftwominds.com/survivalplus.html
Not telling anyone how to deal with these things but I keep my name on MoveOn’s list.
Today they sent me an email asking me to call Arcuri and voice my disappointment with his no vote. I instead called the number to say that I approve. Sort of little sense of balance.
I think that is actually a disadvantage to Obama and the Dems. Remember how bad the reaction was by those who figured out that Obama was lying about the whole change the way Washington works and look out for the middle class stuff? You can tell Plouffe is back in town helping them to sell their shit better, but it is still shit. And when people realize that their premiums keep going up and their care level goes down, they are going to be even more angry at being played for fools than they are about the high premiums. It’s that much worse when you were lied to and they can’t help but notice by 2012, if not by 2010, that they were lied to.
THanks to all.
Looks like I’ve quite a bit of reading (and watching) to do.
Thanks again.
Peace
So now what? Vote for more Democrats? That’s like the farmer who won the lotto. What will you do with the money? I guess I will just keep farming till its all gone.
Same for me.
Jane made a comment a couple of days ago about “blog traffic [is] down.” I’d really like some more information about that.
Right after I get finished writing all the “unsubscribe” notes to the “I voted for the health care bill. Send me money” e-mails I’m getting from my ActBlue/BlueAmerican “friends.”
curious why?
ASSUMING, for the moment, that your analysis is correct, then what we can and should do in the meantime is whatever we can to help the public see with clarity where the battle lines really are. And the best way to do that, IMHO, is with MASSIVE street actions that will absolutely require media coverage, along with discussions of what we are so mad about. We need to hammer home to the public the message : PEOPLE vs. BIG CORPORATIONS. WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON? That will serve to hasten the process you envision. Otherwise, none of us will live long enough to see any real change happen.
The TV ads paid for with corporate money are the most effective tools for shaping public opinion.
We can only hope to counter them with massive and disruptive street actions, which will have to be covered by the media. Even if not the national media. The local media will always cover local controversy. We need to organize simultaneous demonstrations in many cities.
I find him a bit self indulgent and more than a bit glib. Just my opinion. I was going to add, the “Overreach and Inequality” chapter from Smith is a decent synopsis.
The link again.
http://www.oftwominds.com/survivalplus.html
Cheers.
agreed, but in order to accomplish that with FDL as a base, the one trick pony (best one as far as it goes) will need a mate to procreate.
I am late on posting here but I have to write a huge “THANKS” to Jane Hamsher.
I know most of the ‘left-of-center’ blogs fairly well, and their handling of this issue has caused me to no longer have faith in a big chunk of them.
Worst of all has been the Daily Kos. They have some decent people there, but many of the diaries and posters come off as shameful shills for everything Rahmbama does or dictates.
Keep up the great advocacy Jane. You are a true class act and your insight has made you invaluable to many of us!
IMHO, Chomsky, and Howard Zinn (who recently passed away) are the two must-reads. (Not to distract from this thread, but a lot of illusions that one may hold can be set right by these two men.)
Yes, it says that he/she is at the end of the long digestive tube.
Even the chosen handle trumpets the intent.
Jane,thank you for fighting the progressive battle in public.
As someone who experienced protests in the 60′s, there is no doubt in my mind that we have a completely different mindset in this country now. People either have a truly delusional case of “cognitive dissonance” or we have become a citizenry that doesn’t understand the concept of fighting for your beliefs (or maybe part of the problem is that too many people don’t know what they really believe in). Anyway, we have a country which is being run by corporations and the ruling elite and what are citizens doing? Democrats rejoice over further privatization in the health care industry and Republicans & the tea party continue to yell about small government (apparently they lack an understanding that small government will mean even further control by the corporations and ruling elite – or maybe that is exactly what they all want?).
Although Jane and Michael Moore may disagree on whether this bill should have been passed, they’re in complete agreement on one point:
- Tom
I think it’s up to you and me and others who see the futility of the electoral/legislative strategy to push to create a consensus here that we need to use other, more effective tactics.
FDL is still the single best place I know for finding and communicating with smart people who are committed to change and social justice. We just need to engage in a real debate about tactical strategy in the aftermath of this HCR fiasco. We’ve actually got a lot of compelling new data to work with. Maybe we won’t be dismissed so easily in the next round.
We “Gotterdone”.
Thanks to everyone.
From everyone that needs some access to health care.
The bill will has the time to get “fixed” over the coming years, but it passed.
Great JoB !!
I agree with you Nathan; but in the meantime we need to get rid of that mandate. That is poison. The Republicans may not really mind it. But they have to vote against it or get tagged with it.
A wink, not a blink
Analyzing this administration’s policies and politics so far, it’s not Lincoln or TR or FDR or JFK or even Clinton who is Obama’s model. He’s embraced Reaganism with all of its foreign wars, military spending, secret intelligence & corporate domestic agendas.
When you watch this commercial, it’s clear that Obama has no chance of re-election if he lets the republicans run St. Ronnie against him.
http://www.ge.com/reagan/video.html
Like a pre-emptive attack, this is the smartest way to win re-election in 2012 by dominating corporate campaign contributions, but it’s an unmitigated disaster for the country.
Great snark.
I think the following which was written over 2 years ago, explains in part what we have just witnessed.
http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3263
I’ve got my own solution to how to oppose the corporate interests, though you may not like it (sorry for coming into the discussion so late):
Vote Republican until Democrats shape up. They’ve proven that they won’t shape up just by being elected, even the nominally most progressive ones, even if they specifically campaigned with the promise of doing so, and even if they control the White House and large majorities in Congress.
So throw ‘em out, every last one that we can, and keep them out until they’re actually willing to COMMIT to walking the walk. If we could do that by voting third-party that would be great – but we clearly can’t. So let’s do it by voting Republican.
Corporate interests can’t buy Democrats if there are none in power to buy and if the only way they can get BACK into power is to refuse to be bought. And what’s wrong with that if they’re so willing to be bought now that having them in power isn’t all that much different from Republican government?
My ‘modest proposal’ above may not be very compatible with the suddenly conciliatory attitude that Jane just adopted, but desperate times call for desperate measures and I just can’t see the current crop of national Democrats getting into line to support the fixes that she proposes – unless we force them to at the point of a metaphorical gun. Their loud chanting for ‘health care reform’ was far too much like the “WMD – mushroom cloud” chants of 7 years ago for me to be even remotely comfortable with: instead of timidly asking “Why can’t we all just get along and try to be better now” (which we certainly didn’t do in response to the Bush/Cheney lies back then), let’s actually hold them accountable in the only way that we apparently can.
If there are no viable third parties at the moment, maybe its time to create one? Parties arent just consumer products you shop around for. They are tools of democracy that can be created to serve the peoples purpose. As long as people just wait for someone else to do what needs to be done, nothing will happen…
Feel better?
Got all those illnesses and nasty medical bills taken care of now, do ya?
Good luck.
God, I remember when he said that about Reagan. All I could think was that my dear friends that died of AIDS rolled over in their grave.
Dear Jane and Pup’s
Any comments regarding Rep. Lynn Woolsey’s statements on Msnbc’s Dylan Ratigan show today?
(got a wonderful Dog story for you, will be working on it soon)
You’re right. This IS the bill. It was the only one that was ever going to be on the table. I guess Kucinich finally realized that. It should be obvious that there is absolutely no powerful, organized, active constituency in America to create any genuine progressive change today.
self indulgent: Excessive indulgence of one’s own appetites and desires.
The ‘excessive’ may be compensating for the dearth involvement by the people at large. appetite and desire for social and economic justice?
Glib, in view of Obama’s rhetoric, is an absurd claim to lay at Chomsky’s feet. Although I agree that he can on occasions tilt his facts to support his line of argument, but for a good cause – should I feel dismissive of him in search of absolute purity? – I’ll take 99%.
Hi Carly, I’m really not so sure it will be implemented. We’ve got four years to go get it. If we can’t do that, we ought to hang it up.
Ditto; Thanks Jane you have taken a lot of undeserved SHIT from people now calling this a ‘progressive victory’.
not holding my breath.
Everyone should read these interesting articles on the “third party myth”.
http://www.ypa.org/article.php?article=0030
http://www.the13thstory.com/krg/words/myths.html
Our country has evolved since the Federalists and the Whigs were in power. I think it is time for another major change in which we have a party solely representing the interests of citizens first.
Any electorally-based strategy must be supplemented with more active, more militant street action to bring our message directly to the public and educate them.
And Jane must be persuaded to adapt to the new realities so clearly revealed by the HCR fiasco, and agree to promote some more militant, extra-systemic action. She did the best anyone could with the old strategy, and we ended up with NOTHING. We must help her see the stark truth of that, and adjust her focus. She is still the most potent leader we’ve got. But she is heavily invested in the systemic process, and has achieved so much status in the mainstream media, that she has a lot to lose by adjusting her tactics now. I believe she is committed to the fight, though, and will change strategies if she can be persuaded that that is the only viable strategy left to us to achieve the changes we want.
Empty sloganeering and insults. And we wonder why progressives haven’t made more progress.
Don’t hold your breath, use your breath, via your keyboard. This is the best place to do it.
Is Malinowski = the eminently unemployable Tom Daschle, currently whoring himself out at DLA Piper where Dick Armey resides?
Thats an excellent strategy – provided that the message that you want to send is that the electorate has moved far to the right, thus prompting the Democrats to try to accomodate by also moving to the right.
If thats not what you want to accomplish, its the most self-defeating recipe ive heard so far.
if you had read but one sentence by Chomsky, you’d know how stupid “I’ve read Chomsky, thanks. I’m still not sure where he wrote that a Republican administration is better for American then a Democratic one.” sounds. So you are either short on truth or short on comprehension.
No insults intended.
“We who are voters?”
What’s this nonsense. Political consumers are to “clearly communicate?” More insanity.
There’s a war going on Jane and we are getting demolished yet you are asking us to continue to fight the battle in the same feckless manner which brought us to this point? I think among other things Jane really does not understand who the Dems are and have always been and will always be.
She also seems rather confused on the entire political process and how the game is rigged long before anyone reaches their masturbatory political climax- THE VOTE!!
Who wins the election makes no difference because all politicians must do what the elite want. Elections are a scam whose function is to neutralize resistance movements and dupe ordinary citizens into thinking they have a say in matters of the state.
Elections do not secure popular control over the state, they do help secure state control over the populace. Voting is a ritual that reinforces obedience to state authority. It creates the illusion that “the people” control the state, thereby masking elite rule. That illusion makes rebellion against the state less likely because it is seen as a legitimate institution and as an instrument of popular rule rather than the oligarchy it really is. This is why even totalitarian states like Russia under Stalin had elections. Embedded within all electoral campaigns is the myth that “the people” control the state through voting.
In today’s US, especially at the national level, elections are worse than worthless — they simply perpetuate illusions & waste time. They are degrading & repulsive exercises in Madison Avenue PR techniques, where “the truth” is off limits from the get-go. Effort should be directed not at participating in this system, but at bringing it down, exposing its corrupt essence, & building genuinely constructive alternatives.
Any vote, no matter who you vote for, is a vote in favor of the status quo. When you vote you are saying you support a system whose deck is stacked in favor of the criminals. The only way we will ever have real change is if everyone stops supporting that system en masse.
Looks like Jane and her teabagger buddies lost this one. Your loss is a gain for the rest of us. Spin it how you will, corporate handout, forced mandates or any other garbage you like. The bottom line is the traitors are all you who live in fantasy land. you want what you want when you want it. Unfortunately life is never that way. This bill isnt the best but it’s better than anything any true progressives like you fdlers have ever or could ever get passed. I think the corporate sell outs are you. You guys are making Jane and her buddies rich, while your attacking the administration along the tea baggers line is just making things worse for everybody. But hey, stubborness seems to be the strong point here carry on self righteus ones, you deserve what you get. And what you got was a huge TEABAGGER LOSS! Carry on right wingers in progressives clothing…..
I completely agree that strategic voting is only one part of any effective strategy. I also accept the reality that the higher-profile one is (and Jane’s certainly up there), the more moderate one’s public statements must be if ones is to avoid becoming completely marginalized (especially after an event such as this one).
But I don’t believe that she needs to be quite as capitulatory as this article was to remain publicly effective (and I sense that you don’t either). Among other things, it implies a denigration of her previous stances that I don’t believe is productive (rather the opposite).
Will you all be using “Nuclear and Clean Coal are good energy sources to transition to renewables” too? Just want to make sure we know your wide stance when that corporate give-away starts to come to complete fruition too.
“Carry on right wingers in progressives clothing…..’
I don’t know what side of the street you drive where you live but ain’t on the right side.
*yawn*
I didn’t realize that there were so many shysters and well meaning idiots in the Democrat(ic) Party until I ran into DKos.
You still haven’t bothered to make your argument. Or explain how Chomsky is relevant to any of the points I was making.
Feeling a bit self-righteous today, are we?
If that is an example of your persuasive powers you may wish to seek other avenues. I especially enjoy those that claim to support Democratic ideals calling those that have differing viewpoint “traitors”. The whole “I know you are but what am I” hasn’t been a argument style that I’ve seen for quite a while. Definitely makes me wish I were on your side, whatever that might be, rather than those that wish for the greater good.
You’re probably right, democracy doesn’t work unless everyone does exactly what their party leadership tells them to do.
You can read about it here:
http://blog.buzzflash.com/alerts/810
I can’t promise anything, but if you read what I wrote more carefully you MIGHT understand it better.
The first and foremost ‘message’ that we will send by voting Republican is that Democrats who govern as these have WILL be kicked out of power.
The underlying message (which is hardly difficult to understand, though we can certainly help clarify it rather than merely leave it implicit) is that their deficiency was in failing to govern according to the promises they had made while campaigning. Of course, they should already understand this pretty well, since they got INTO power by campaigning as progressive populists (presumably because they understood that’s what the country was looking for).
If you’ve been paying attention at all for the past year you’ll understand that we can’t get them to listen unless they’re driven out (or at least clearly threatened by the prospect of being) first. If they make a dramatic about-face and actually ENACT a significant amount of progressive legislation (including a strong public option available to all) prior to next November (via reconciliation if necessary: no more excuses on that account) I’ll enthusiastically support them instead of voting Republican.
Clearer now?
somewhere in the 140ies posted this quote:
“Most [Western democracies] have not achieved the U.S. system of one political party, with two factions controlled by shifting segments of the business community.”
I’m actually enjoying these mouthbreathing drive-by’s you suckers seem to need to do. Shows what the enemy looks like. Hi Buddy!
: )
I agree with your statement my friend, although I know from experience that you can’t criticise this blog very directly without getting blocked.
I go bombs away on conservative redneck newspapers like the Augusta Chronicle, hammering them for their hateful racism, but they don’t block me posting.
But to the point….
How can anyone who really wants single payer universal health care not feel that we are now in a much better position to reach it than we were before this bill was passed?
Clearly this bill helps that cause greatly.
My God, this is the nation, the USA, that is so conservative that we largely accepted the Iraq war, an utterly uncalled for act of awful aggression…And some people think Obama isn’t moving us to the left fast enough? That’s crazy.
I do wonder whether the FDL powers are MLK liberals or William Kristol Neo-Liberals. There’s a world of difference.
President Obama can be our new FDR and Lincoln combined, if we help him.
Nobody cares about your ‘points I was making’, as I told you above. You got what you wanted, and we were right – it sucks ass. Not much to discuss.
I understood the point youre trying to make all too well the first time. Doesnt change the fact that youre wrong. Politicians dont think that way. Havent you heard of “triangulation”? If center-right party suddenly see a big voter movement to ultra-right party, its not gonna think that voters fleeing do so because they want left policies. The message you send is that center-right party needs to aling more closely with ultra-right party as to draw back some of the fleeing voters.
Correspondingly, if you want to create incentive for center-right party to move to the left, you need to create a movement of voters from center-right to the left. That is the only threat that they will take seriously, and the only signal they will understand.
Clearer now?
There’s certainly an argument to be made that both Democrats and Republicans are, if not equally beholden to corporations and big business, certainly too far aligned with them for comfort. But none of that changes my original point; the Republicans are batshit insane. They run on platforms of racism, sexism, and homophobia. They are willfully ignorant of science, or enjoy presenting themselves as same. They are seemingly dedicated to inefficency and incompetence in government. They’re willing to embrace aspects of theocracy, nonsensical far-right positions, and a militantly aggressive foreign policy to get and stay in power. For all the Democrats’ corruption and failure of political nerve, few of them have demonstrated their commitment to radical far-right ideology that the Republicans have time and time again. Supporting Republicans as a way of punishing Democrats, as more than one person in this thread has suggested, would be the most dramatic example of cutting our nose off to spite our face that I can think of.
There are times when one [moi] really should crank it up to 125%, or at least get glasses.
I thought you said ” we need new TACOS.”
Did you even read my original comment? Nowhere did I say that this bill was what I wanted. But please do continue to speak for the entire community; it’s so persuasive.
Thank you for that much needed laugh. The new kids around here with their ad hominems are a bit tense-making.
Read some of your comments, not interested in looking for one which begs for relevence. It’s pretty clear to me you’re looking for validation of the ‘best we can do’, ‘support dems who lie correctly’, ‘reps are worse’ road to jack shit for progressives. There has never been clearer evidence that dems or anyone who claims to be progressive is either useless or full of shit. Except for FDL and a few others, NOW and PCCC come to mind.
There is nothing to be gained by supporting dems, and there won’t be for a long time, so don’t jack me off.
The comments here are replete with answers to your questions. Read them.
Aaaaaand yet again you can’t be bothered making an argument. Why on earth should I take you seriously?
Not looking for validation of anything, merely expressing my opinion that campaigning for incompetent, ignorant radical lunatics to run the country is self-sabotaging at best. But by all means, enjoy the Palin administration. Because things couldn’t possibly get worse, right?
I keep telling ya, nobody cares if you ‘take them seriously’, by your views you make yourself non relevant.
They can and will, count on it.
I don’t give a fuck about being taken seriously by someone who dosen’t bother finding answers. I’ve argued my side here for month’s and have acquired a nose for smelling out good faith from BS. You fall squarely into the later.
The stark, ugly truth. Stripped of all pretense and illusion.
Read it and weep, Firepups.
Then read it again, and change. Change tactics.
If you find yourself still resisting that concept, take 5 minutes and list all the ways that you know of that the election system is rigged, staring with the census and the gerrymandering, and work your way up. Then look at your list, and be honest with yourselves.
…And just to be ultra-clear: The strategy youre proposing is the biggest favour you could ever dream of doing the two corporate parties of the US. Perpetuating their abuse by going from one to another, you never change your own destructive behaviour by starting to look for parties less likely to abuse you.
I agree somewhat, but understand that her mainstream acceptance has been very hard-won, and now she has a conflict of interest if she considers changing course. Access is a powerful drug, as with other journalists.
I hope and believe that she believes the fight is the thing.
I’m glad to have you here, swede, I’m curious if you’ve ever lived in this insane country? The wall to wall propaganda here is pretty damn effective.
OR, we could get a focused poll that tests where centrist and Democratic voters would prefer to be, true progressive or neo-liberal.
Then everyone would know where the real underlying strength is located.
Anybody know of such a poll?
Your facts are correct BUT have you ever heard of the concept of “hitting bottom”? It’s a basic axiom of addiction treatment, as well as classic revolutionary theory.
Nothing like a little can-do spirit.
LOL. Tacos are good. T-A-C-O-S A-R-E G-O-O-D.
Seeing as this is a country, and by extension, a world of people who would be affected, I’m not so sure those metaphors apply. When an alcoholic hits bottom, it doesn’t cost people their lives. I’d like to avoid that if possible, along with not converting the needs and concerns of real people into game theory.
Seriously, I should read back a million threads to find your arguments? Please. You’ve pretty much proven that you have no real interest in putting forth a persuasive argument. You’d rather just label me unserious, that way you can ignore my points. Pretty sad.
Cripes, now I gotta go get some tacos. I resisted the first mention, but you got me with the second. Propaganda!!!
: )
Nobody is interested in your ‘points’, they are not relevent because they have not led to any progress. They don’t work and they don’t matter.
Thanks Transparait, im glad youll have me!
I stayed in the US for some time in the nineties, doing NGO-work, so i have some idea of what youre up against. It was just around the time of the Clinton health care proposal. And here we are in another decade, still with the same issue.
I met a lot of amazing people though, radical activists that left a big impression on me. From what i saw in the US i would say that you could teach us europeans a thing or two about organizing around concrete issues. And maybe we can share with you our experiences of multi-party-systems :)
“When an alcoholic hits bottom, it doesn’t cost people their lives. ”
Oh, it does.
Oh, baby, if you don’t understand that it’s all game theory, then I can’t even give you credit for your ostensible good intentions. That kind of willful ignorance just loses me. Sorry.
Do you believe for one moment that lives are not being ruined now, and do you disbelieve that those losses will continue in future every minute the status quo remains in place? Get real.
Taco Bell. Just another evil corporation ;).
Sounds good, what lefty parties have had the most success over there? Perhaps you can paraphrase how they were able to effectively convince people, ie what was their ‘message’? Sorry to be so demanding, but we’re in a bit of a tough spot over here.
: )
Chipotle six blocks from here. Bastards.
; )
Polls are interesting, but at the end of the day, the only way to get their whole attention is by showing that youre willing to put your money where your mouth is, by going to a third party. To me its pretty obvious that all the ridicule and demonizing of Nader by Dem party loyalists hide a true fear that he could be effective.
Someday, all restaurants will be Taco Bell (Demolition Man).
Has it been considered that the DNC may have hired or has staff members and others posting in large numbers to websites such as Huffpo to “push” the message in the direction they want? Unfortunately, there are many people who like to “go along to get along” and if the message is “this is great”, then they will continue that meme. That is why I truly appreciate Jane Hamsher for trying to point out the flaws and actively working to get a better bill for the citizens.
No, you misunderstood my point. I think such a poll would be useful to clarify the thinking of the public, and possibly some of the media. The Dem Party is unredeemable, IMHO.
But you’re right about Nader.
Well, as im sure you know the european social democrats have been hugely influential in the past. And they managed to construct welfare states that are still standing, although experiencing rollback pressure, privatization and the same neoliberal dogma that youre up against in the US. But the thing is, once you have these programs in place, like universal health care, they are not easy to dismantle. People generally know to appreciate structures that are for their own benefit (but not always).
The social democats have been taking a rightward turn since the eighties, probably the best (worst) example of this is Tony Blair and the new labour party. I dont know what will become of the social democrats in the future, right now its a bit of a toss up, they could go further down the neoliberal road, or regain some of their socialist/populist conviction. The thing is, the more neoliberally influenced they become, the worse they perform in elections.
Then we have various left socialist parties, some remaining communists, and the green movement, which is propably the strongest performing part of the left at the moment (although they shy away from being called leftist).
The thing is that the last 10 years have been hard on the broad left here in Europe too. The war on terror and following islamophobic/racist sentiment has benefited the ultra right in a lot of different countries. And when the ultra right conquers the stage, the left loses elections.
(I could go on writing all day about this, but i propably should stop here.)
I see i didnt really answer your question, but i think its difficult for a foreigner to advise you on what kind of message could be most effective in the US. Im sure you know that much better than us. I would have thought that universal health care would be such, a morally imperative issue that is easy to explain to the public. And maybe it still can be for you, if you just find the organization/party that is ready to carry it all the way. But, like i said, youre the real experts here!
Thank you, Jane. I think you are magnificent.
I admire your courage Jane.
From outside America it appears you are struggling against a collective insanity, which is frankly terrifying.
The main thing America does best is Narcissim.
Thanks Jane for your eloquent summary today and the hard work all year long. And exellent work by many bloggers on the issues and costs— this is the best site for analysis and discussion.
I hope we will avoid feeding the trolls as noted above. Seems like a few are drifting in from orange and red states. I enjoy the lack of devisiveness here, generally useful discussions instead of the flame wars seen elsewhere.
We’ll regroup and reorganize. Perhaps this moment can be leveraged for the change we are interested in, rather than the propaganda coming from the mainstream.
I appreciate it, swede, your perspective is helpful. At the very least to get minds thinking about different possibilities, mine included. Thank you!
Going to spam this again, I find the sample chapter “Overreach and Inequality” a pretty decent synopsis of where things are at, I think point 10 is particularly key…
http://www.oftwominds.com/survivalplus.html
Least i can do, international solidarity you know ;)
If its a comfort i can tell you that im impressed with the intellectual level of the US left, you got some pretty sharp people over there. Not least on this blog! I learn a lot from reading it!
Me too!
This is first comment – Thank you FireDogLake for working for real reform.
Thank you for not being Apologists.
Mod note: Not the first.
Well, they can say my car is red but it is quite manifestly silver. And they can hurl all manner of abuse at me for insisting that it is silver, but saying it’s red is not going to make it red. I’m sorry if it spoils the party and makes them feel awkward if I point out that last week they thought it was silver too, but — well, no actually I’m not sorry at all.
Anyway, that’s how I feel about that. But it is awfully nice to be able to check in with people who look over and say “yep, it’s silver” every once in a while, just to be reminded that not everyone has gone bananas.
Jane,
Did you get your congratulatory email from the President yet? I haven’t but others have:
“For the first time in our nation’s history, Congress has passed comprehensive health care reform. America waited a hundred years and fought for decades to reach this moment. Tonight, thanks to you, we are finally here.
Consider the staggering scope of what you have just accomplished:
Because of you, every American will finally be guaranteed high quality, affordable health care coverage.
Every American will be covered under the toughest patient protections in history. Arbitrary premium hikes, insurance cancellations, and discrimination against pre-existing conditions will now be gone forever.
And we’ll finally start reducing the cost of care — creating millions of jobs, preventing families and businesses from plunging into bankruptcy, and removing over a trillion dollars of debt from the backs of our children.
But the victory that matters most tonight goes beyond the laws and far past the numbers.
It is the peace of mind enjoyed by every American, no longer one injury or illness away from catastrophe.
It is the workers and entrepreneurs who are now freed to pursue their slice of the American dream without fear of losing coverage or facing a crippling bill.
And it is the immeasurable joy of families in every part of this great nation, living happier, healthier lives together because they can finally receive the vital care they need.
This is what change looks like.
My gratitude tonight is profound. I am thankful for those in past generations whose heroic efforts brought this great goal within reach for our times. I am thankful for the members of Congress whose months of effort and brave votes made it possible to take this final step. But most of all, I am thankful for you.
This day is not the end of this journey. Much hard work remains, and we have a solemn responsibility to do it right. But we can face that work together with the confidence of those who have moved mountains.
Our journey began three years ago, driven by a shared belief that fundamental change is indeed still possible. We have worked hard together every day since to deliver on that belief.
We have shared moments of tremendous hope, and we’ve faced setbacks and doubt. We have all been forced to ask if our politics had simply become too polarized and too short-sighted to meet the pressing challenges of our time. This struggle became a test of whether the American people could still rally together when the cause was right — and actually create the change we believe in.
Tonight, thanks to your mighty efforts, the answer is indisputable: Yes we can. blah, blah blah.
Thank you,
President Barack Obama
Your comments are excellent .
The points you make about the inefficacy of voting is mirrored here.
I don’t condone destruction, but there is some wisdom in this statement that can be contrasted directly with what is happening here. Swede also mentioned that the demonization and attacks on Nader (as well as Jane Hamsher) is indicative of fear that there is real danger to the institution to be found there.
In the greek group’s defense, these leftists call ahead so one gets hurt, unlike the right- although I don’t agree with their tactics, they understand that the system is rigged.
So the idea is to just shout down anyone you disagree with, rather than argue their points. How very teabagger-like.
Not sure how those lives will be helped by campaigning for a Republican takeover.
Wave of the future.
Jane, you stand alone in the contribution you’ve made to truth and social justice since founding this blog. Don’t even pay attention to critical comments from people who don’t comprehend what integrity looks like.
I would just ask you, after recent events, to consider whether it is time to pursue different tactics, more militant, even extra-systemic tactics. Nobody could have done more than you have done, but the system is hopelessly rigged against the people, and maybe it’s time to seriously consider taking action outside the electoral/legislative process. Many here, including myself, have discussed and explored that issue here, and I wish you would as well.
Please accept my love, admiration, and gratitude for all your hard work, your toughness, and your integrity.
Maybe you should stop commenting until you’ve thought enough to offer something more than “Not sure”? Try taking in for awhile instead of putting out, because what you’re putting out is very repetitive and unfocused. It doesn’t reflect well on you.
I need to clarify: I only agree with your reading on what has happened already. I don’t agree with your idea of throwing the whole baby out with the bathwater. Burning down the system, without a contingency plan is not a valid plan.
Google just threw us an ad here that says “Join the Fight. Buy the Gear”. Political T-shirts.
There’s wide selection, I’m sure.
You don’t see that the democrats are the basically republicans with red ties?
Obama is to the right of Nixon domestically. See where this D party is headed? What do you suggest that would turn it around? You can’t triangulate against a single party from inside it. It’s members are triangulating against constituents to keep progressives out and irrelevant.
Do you see any wisdom here or here? There are a lot of smart people here to learn from.
You should write more here. That was smart!
When you have time, may I suggest reading “A People’s History of the United States” by Howard Zinn. The complete book is found on-line at the following link:
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/zinnapeopleshistory.html
What’s clear is that we disagree. I’m no more bothered by that than you likely are, and find your assertions no more persuasive than you appear to find mine.
As far as ‘how politicians think’, though, my point is that when the subject is force (as what I’m proposing is) thinking is not really required (though it can cause proper responses to occur more quickly). If Democrats move to the right as you fear they will if Republicans start getting more votes, they won’t find that effective and will have to rethink. If they instead move to the left (as they did – or at least appeared to – in 2008) they’ll find the result more to their liking.
But they won’t do either (save continue to drift rightward as they’ve been doing for at least two decades) unless they’re voted out of office to get them started – or at least sufficiently threatened with that.
As for ‘triangulation’, the sooner that’s discredited the better. The dismal Democratic turnout in the recent Mass. special election should help.
And as for ‘creating a movement of voters from center-right to the left’, that’s what the Bush-era did and what Democrats capitalized on in 2008. If it takes another similar period of Republican governance to do that again it’s not necessarily a bad thing if the end result is better than it was this time around.
So you just use your approach and I’ll use mine, and we’ll see what happens. There are doubtless areas in which we can work together even while disagreeing about others.
The trouble is that all that demonization was EFFECTIVE. Nader got (IIRC) around 4% of the popular vote in Y2K, after which party-line Democrats excoriated him for ‘being responsible for Bush’. By any rational assessment Nader should have gotten at least double that in 2004, since he was running against TWO warmongers; instead, he and Cobb between them only got around 1% (again, IIRC). One might argue that Nader’s 1% in 2008 was more understandable, since he was getting fairly old, his campaign was minimal, and Obama sucked so much wind out of progressive sails with his empty rhetoric, but the end result was still the same: third-party support was down in the asterisk area.
The reason I support voting Republican is because that’s the only way left to make any difference. Supporting third parties is simply not working because, as you observe, the money just isn’t there from those few progressives willing to resist seduction by the Democrats’ “support us or you’ll get Republicans” argument. By contrast, even a relatively small voting bloc shifting its support to Republicans at least doubles its voting effect compared with voting third-party (even if we were living in the fantasy land of instant-runoff voting that would be true, though it would at least be more obvious WHY they were our second choice).
And I say that as someone who’s been voting for third-party progressives (when I could find them) since early 2004. I’d love to be able to continue to do so, but it’s just not effective and I don’t think that we can afford any more ineffectiveness.
I certainly suspect a fair amount of astroturfing at HuffPo, but based on experience over the past 6 years think that at least half the positive chanting reflects genuine if misguided belief. It’s interesting to check the posting history of the more blatant apologists, and indeed more than one might expect joined just this month – but a lot have been around for quite a while and have what appears to be a legitimate presence there.
Progressives (or at least those who feel they are) seem to be as susceptible to being sheep as the rest of the population. And the two parties have gotten very, VERY good at being shepherds.
Universal health care indeed should have been (and COULD have been if Obama hadn’t been so opposed to real reform) an incredible mobilizing force for progress. The problem is that the American public is easily led around by the nose like sheep, especially given how complicit our mainstream media are in the process.
Hence we (no, not me – I use the term collectively) believed the lies about WMD and terrorist connections in Iraq 7 years ago and were just recently split down the middle between believing that the Democratic insurance proposals were Socialism on the one hand or real reform on the other. Americans have simply ceased to be able to think objectively, and I can’t say why or how to fix that (one might think that the Internet would offer possibilities, but aside from Howard Dean’s use of it back in 2003 it seems to have been coopted by the establishment as effectively as other communication mechanisms; still, we might be able to come up with something effective given a sufficiently strong message).
This is definitely not a progressive victory, its a Democrat establishment victory… throwing us scraps and saying its the best they can do while patting each other on the back… watching common sense ideas being tossed to the side, gutted, and no one in the media calling out obvious corruption because its common knowledge that all politicians are corrupt and theres no use in reporting it.
I think this is a complete failure of the media, it seems like they relish in watching everything fall apart and looking for the next story that will weaken the Obama agenda. I don’t remember there being this much scrutiny during the Bush years… theres just been a failure at every single level, from the top down…
Firedoglake did some great work during this, but its time to move on. This is the bill we have and we need to keep fighting. With the elections coming up we need to be united in electing better democrats and pushing for improvements that can be made to the bill. I’m not giving up.
bill, there’s no historical precedent for the really dangerous course you’re advocating.
You’re an accomplice once you pay your federal income taxes. If you really feel as strongly, as you claim, file, but do not pay your federal income taxes. Then write about your experience at Seminal.
At Appomattox, just before he surrendered, Lee asked his Generals. IIRC, except for Longstreet, they all counseled him to follow the orders of President Jefferson Davis. Release what was left of the Army of Northern Virginia to continue the fight as guerrillas. Fortunately Lee rejected their advice.
The Atlanta bureau chief for the Wall Street Journal, Douglass Blackmon, won the Pulitzer in 2009 for
SLAVERY BY ANOTHER NAME: THE REENSLAVEMENT OF BLACK AMERICANS FROM THE CIVIL WAR UNTIL WWII
US Steel and others who profited from post Civil War enslavement did not need a third party. They used the Democrats. They knew that voting for the party of Lincoln was not in their financial interest.
Strom Thurmond was a leader in ending lynching in the 1920’s, because he wanted to PRESERVE segregation. He was a Democrat.
Political campaigns run on cash and the mainstream media. If you read FDL, you are beholden to the unions, and the other liberal special interests. If you want money for liberal/progressive causes, it runs through those groups.
The mere suggestion of voting 4 wingnuts IN GENERAL ELECTIONS, who want more torture, who want to bomb Iran, want lower taxes for Americans with ultra high net worth, who want more bailouts for Wall Street, more military spending, who want to end choice, who want to privatize institutions that the taxpayers have built over decades……. is deeply wrong.
What we all need to do is donate more money to FDL. We need the cornerstone of objective coverage that the mainstream media does not provide.
I think you can find plenty of examples of what im saying in your own political history. Reagan attracted a lot of democrats to his party in the eighties. That did not cause Democrats to veer left, instead you got two neoliberal parties. Did the Bush years of Republican domination really help strengthen the Democratic left? What you got was a lot of posturing and hot air, that in the end amounts to little when the liberals are back into power. There is just no incentive for the Dems to move left with the strategy you propose, and no message for them even that they need to do so.
And what i draw from the health care debacle, and the current political situation in the US, is that its a pretty hopeless strategy to organize within the centerright party on a left platform that conflicts with that partys self-interest. Dems are not the party of the workers or even the middle class anymore, but they do pay homage to business and rich donors. The sooner the american left recognizes the facts on the ground the sooner it can develop effective strategies at countering them. Bolstering up the ultra-right sounds like the most farfetched plan so far.
Im not a bigger fan of triangulation than you seem to be, but it is a political reality, especially around center and rightwing parties. I believe that it is consistent with their ideologies: they have no real substantive reforms to offer the people that might benefit them. So instead they play political games with messaging, positioning and tactics.
What i dont quite get around here when it comes to third parties is the impatience. For that strategy to work you need to be prepared for a long time comittment. Start from the grassroot level, launch local candidates, then national candidates when its feasible. Naders presidential campaigns got, as far i can tell, more or less the votes that he could realistically hope for. Up against two monster party machines. A presidential bid without a very strong grassroots movement to counter all that money can not do much better. Maybe if the circumstances are very extreme and the corruption of the current ruling class is blatantly obvious.
A wiser strategy to me would be to aim for seats in the house, maybe a couple of senate seats, at first. But for even that to be possible you need to have local grassroots ready for some heavy lifting.
But just imagine how a small but honest and determined set of green representatives, or socialists, or independent progressives, would have changed the present health care dynamics. At the very least they would have embarrased the two corporate parties to no end.
I really like the way you analyze things. I hope you will stay active and engaged in the discussions here in the next few weeks. We need all the working brains we can get right now ;). I don’t agree with all your points, but I admire your analytical approach.
Bingo.
As Jane pointed out, it is a start. Keep pushing. Jane we are right behind your efforts. Thanks for all you do for the American people.
“Never before has the government mandated that its citizens pay directly to private corporations almost as much as they do in federal taxes, especially when those corporations have been granted unregulated monopolies.”
Medicare E (Medicare for everyone)
You seem to believe that electing Republicans is in some qualitative way different from electing Democrats – e.g., that the Democratic leadership is actually opposed to most of the things that you list near the end rather than merely more coy about supporting them. If I believed that I wouldn’t be advocating this course of action. Since I don’t, I’m not sure we have any basis for discussion.
The incentive for the Democrats to move left with the strategy which I propose is that it’s the only way that they’ll stay in power (if the mere threat works) or get back into power (if we have to make good on that threat). That’s not all that difficult to comprehend: it’s just a lot more brute-force than political junkies usually consider (and, of course, an uncomfortable strategy to carry through).
The Democrats ALREADY moved left in 2008 from their pitiful stances earlier in the decade: they just didn’t STAY there after being elected. So the concept is not new to them.
As for impatience with third parties, the strategy which I’m advocating is short- or at most medium-term. There’s every reason to work to bolster third parties in parallel, but the fact is that despite the dramatic swerve to the right that the country has taken this decade (rather than merely inching to the right as it did in the previous two) voter support for progressive third parties has fallen off to almost nothing and until that starts to change significantly adding our few votes to zero will leave the results still pretty close to zero, whereas moving them into the Republican column will at least double their effect.
So while I’m all for nourishing progressive alternatives with the hope that they’ll eventually be ready to leave the nest, I’ll be voting Republican in the meantime – unless the Democrats undergo a conversion of near-Biblical proportions and return to their base for real.
Just a cautionary note, for your strategy to work, those who pursue it must make sure to communicate to both parties what the strategy is. Otherwise, there IS a great danger that it would be misinterpreted as meaning that Dems aren’t right enough. Wwe’ve just seen that misinterpretation applied to HCR, so the danger is real.
But you still havent moved from square one: the message your sending the Dems by voting ultraright is that they need to be more rightish to be able to stem the flow. Its very simple political mathemathics. I challenge you to find one example to the contrary. I mentioned Reagan and the eighties, what is your take on that? Did he move the Dems left by sucking up their base?
2008 was as i see it a culmination of 8 years of extremely brutish Republican misrule, that in the end moved the ELECORATE several steps to the left. The Dem party seem to have been slow to jump on that bandwagon, and when they did, it was lip service only. You suggest a repeat of that, thinking that somehow this time the outcome will be different. Consider the cost in human lives only, as the Reps are sure to start a couple more wars at least, raze more new deal legisation, keep building on the surveillance state, and what not.
Im sure the situation for third parties have been as bleak as you describe it. But that will change now that the supposed “center-left” is back in power and proves beyond any question of a doubt that its just another arm on the corporate body of the USA. People will be starting to look for alternatives. You will be faced with the option of doing what you can to strenghten these alternatives, or to keep enabling the cycle of abuse by just switching to the other one of your regular torturers instead.
You’re being ‘WAY to abstract. The reason that the Democrats will eventually move left if we start voting Republican is because that’s the ONLY way they’ll get back into office. If they mistakenly think that moving right is the answer, they’ll find that that answer doesn’t work (we’ll still just keep voting Republican). If they try it again, it still won’t work. Eventually they’ll have no recourse other than to move left – if some more deserving party hasn’t already taken advantage of the vacuum there, beaten them to it, and become a credible force.
You also seem to think that even today’s Democrats are qualitatively better than Republicans. If so, then we simply disagree and aren’t likely to find common ground.
But that does provide strong evidence of why third parties have (and will CONTINUE to have) such difficulty getting off the ground here: as long as a large number of people (like you?) DO think that Democrats are qualitatively preferable to Republicans, they’ll continue to vote for “the lesser of two evils” rather than support the third parties that you’d (and I’d) like to see grow. You give us far too much credit if you think that a significant percentage of Democrats have had their eyes opened by Obama’s betrayals – which is what would have to happen for the scenario which you describe to play out effectively.
(whoops – double post)
IM being too abstract? You project a highly unlikely scenario into the future, assuming a lot of things about how the Dem party will behave that really has no basis in any empirical evidence or any coherent logic.
As i see it you have not tried to refute the basis of my argument: By voting ultraright, the only message you will send to the Dems is that the countrys electorate has moved to the right. This will prompt them to triangulate and follow to the right. How do you plan to accomplish otherwise? There will be no ballots with the caveat “I vote Republican with the hope that it will drive Democrats to the left”.
You didnt answer my question on Reagan: Did he drive the Dems to the left? You also didnt respond to why you would expect the outcome this time to be different from the 2000-2008 period, when Dems were in opposition they put on a good show of being progressives. When they got back into power they turned out to be center-right. Will you do telepathy on them to be sure next time?
You also fail to take political trending into consideration. If the Republicans were to experience a swell in ranks, right at the moment when they are at their most lunatic-fringe-righty, it would establish a political momentum for the ultraright that would have a heavy and destructive impact on the political debate. People would not be hearing about the lefts ideology and solutions. The pendulum would swing even further to the right, this time with the added weight of confused progressives thinking that they did the right thing by empowering their regular abusers one more time.
Finally, do i see the Dems as better then the Repubs? Well, i will take center-right over ultraright, yes. But that is a false choice. I would choose neither, and instead try to build a real, effective left.
You’re still missing the point. Unlike you, I’m not attempting to predict how the Democratic party WILL behave: I’m specifying how it MUST behave – that, or stay on the outside looking in.
And you clearly just don’t understand how politics is working in the U.S. these days – and didn’t pay attention when I described it in detail just now. The very existence of a large, established party even marginally to the left of the Republicans sucks all the wind out of the sails of anything farther left and thus makes MOVING left of no real value to the Democrats as long as they can continue to hold office without doing so.
Please try to address those issues in any further response.
Still no reply as to whether Reagan moved the Dems to the left. Still no reply as to why you would expect another period of republican rule to change the Dem party. Obviously they DONT need to move to the left to oust the Republicans. Voters tire of being screwed by one arm of the corporate machine, and vote in the other arm reflexively. Your political game dont change the dynamics at all, just enforce them.
Clearly YOU dont understand how politics work, and since you dont respond to my points even when prompted, maybe youre the one not paying attention?
I understand all too well that the left to the left of the Dems get the air sucked out of their sails when the republicans are in power. Because the Dems can then put on a nice bit of political theater, portraying themselves as progressives. But when they are back in power, like now, the charade is over and people will start looking for real alternatives. Its apparent in the comments here. (You find the same tendency here in Europe; Where there are a social democrat party and smaller parties to the left of them.)
Moving left will start to have a real value to the Dems when/if they get a strong opposition to the left, competing with them for votes. You have another good example of that in your country from the New Deal era, when the sucess of the Socialist party made both Dems and Repubs absorb great parts of its platform.
Again; i challenge you to find ANY example of how voting ultra-right and wishing left would accomplish anything like what you propose.
And aside from the fact that its doomed to fail; its also a pretty ugly way of looking at politics. Instead of honestly working to build the movement that you want, you lower yourself to trying to game the system. The bad news is that both Dems and Repubs are masters of political gaming.
Your examples don’t support your argument (with one exception which I’ll note below) – that’s why I haven’t responded to them. The reason for this is that Americans just aren’t politically intelligent any more.
There was a time in this country when we at least attempted to understand issues. Now most of us are too lazy (or ill-informed, but that’s just a form of laziness) to do anything but listen to sound bytes (whoops…) and react viscerally to them. There’s no reason I can see to expect that to change until things get REALLY bad here (hence the relevance of your New Deal era observation above, except that those conditions do not obtain presently and hence do not predict behavior now) – or we force the only major party with any chance of changing things to move to the left.
I’d prefer the latter, but if it’s going to take the former I’d prefer that it happen as quickly as possible. Hence the strategy that I’m suggesting. By contrast, you’re suggesting that the relatively few progressives who haven’t drunk by the Democratic Kool-Aid close their eyes, clap their hands, and chant, “We DO believe in third parties!” despite all the recent evidence that such belief has no foundation in the current political environment.
No, thanks: I enjoyed Peter Pan immensely when I was a child, but don’t use it as a template for dealing with reality.
Ah, Michael Moore made a movie named “Sicko”; which came out in 2007 and took over a year to make; did you see it? And his work in Stupak district got him to change his vote.
More Americans know about what MM and his work for Single Payer/Public Option then even know about this awesome website. So give credit where it’s due.