Won’t matter.

They dare not do anything to harm saint Obama, they’ll bend over and take this like they have everything else.

not a spine among them.

not a spine among them.

My fear is that it is not a spine they lack. It’s principles.

Really, Jane…? President Obama didn’t tell the Pro-Choice Caucus about the Stupak sell-out before he pulled the trigger? OMG…!

But, from his perspective…does it matter?

He has their votes anyway…right?

LOL!

These guys are so out to lunch that they don’t realize they’re totally irrelevant.

The only people taken seriously in this town are those who are willing to walk. They never were.

Someone post their email addresses so I can laugh at their total ignorance. They’ve got 3-7 more years of total irrelevancy.

So… women will be forced to buy medical insurance but can’t use the insurance for a medical procedure that offends Rep. Stupak.

Is there enough time to start calling the 3-4 of them to it would take to make a difference?

Cynthia Kouril has some serious concerns about the consequence of the EO’s language:

It is unbelievably overbroad. Think about the literal meaning of these words: “Nothing in this Act shall require an otherwise qualified health plan, including an Exchange-participating plan, to cover any items or services to which the issuer, plan sponsor, or purchaser has a moral or religious objection.” [emphasis mine].

Not just abortions, birth control, HIV treatment, tubal ligations, vasectomies, what about circumcisions? Some people think mental illness is actually demonic possession, do they get to opt out? Some people think that drug and alcohol addiction are moral failings, not illnesses—can providers opt out of those treatments?

[...]

Health care for all men and pro-life women is enshrined into law today.

My fear is that it is not a spine they lack. It’s principles.

No, they have both spine and principles – which they use to stand up to us.

I’m with you, Linda. They lack principles, and are read (correctly) by this White House as not worth courting. Like Obama, “progressive Democrat” is looking increasingly like an oxymoron, a la “jumbo shrimp.” They’re as bad as the goddamned Republicans. I’m so disgusted at the way this WH plays true progressives, unions, pro-choice groups, etc., whose views, in many respects, are mirrored by the general electorate. This WH totally takes us for granted (let’s call this the Rahm Principle but it applies equally to Obama). When a Democratic president goes farther to the right on choice than friggin’ Henry Hyde, we are doomed unless we can start a viable third party (with no automatic allegiance to either Dems or Repubs) or somehow uncouple elections from corporate funding.

Some new bumper stickers

No choice or change with Obama
Obama gives US no choice

As I tried to indicate, they may have told DeGette — who failed to inform members of the caucus. But it doesn’t appear that they sent the language to any members of Congress before its release to the press, which is not SOP.

“She has steadfastly refused to release the 41 names of members who signed her letter pledging to vote against any health care bill that restricts a woman’s access to abortion services.” ; and her reasons for not doing such? Perhaps because there really isn’t 41?

“Members of the pro-choice caucus are livid…”
What do they expect? The pro-choice Dems have chosen to make themselves utterly irrelevant to this legislation by proclaiming their support and offering their votes, knowing the other side was holding out for more concessions. Idiots.
Who the hell cares about them? This is what happens when you sell out your principles time after time.
Now their widdle fee-wings are hurt! They have made themselves utterly irrelevant to the process and now the real players have forgotten about them.
I, for one, think that they richly deserve the disrespect the White House has shown them. They were ready to sell out American women to keep their membership in The Club. They don’t deserve anyone’s respect.

Good god – this is even worse than I thought. If the Supreme Court were a normal bunch, they’d throw out this “moral objection” bullshit. We were hoodwinked by “progressive” Obama. He seems happy to give away anything resembling progressive stances in favor of the PR-driven nonsense of “look! we passed a historic health care plan!” Which it ain’t.

As Glenn pointed out last Thursday, progressive members of Congress (and a lot of progressive pundits and bloggers) have made themselves completely irrelevant because of how they rolled over in the health care debate:

[N]obody will ever, ever take progressive threats seriously again in the future, because they know that progressives will do what they did here: namely, get in line at the end and support what the Party wants even if none of their desired changes to a bill are made.

No wonder the pro-choice caucus isn’t being taken seriously by the White House.

I have heard there are actually more than 41, but that’s the only figure she herself has quoted that I’ve been able to find.

Just saw Lynn Woolsey say she “trusts our Speaker and trusts the Senate” on the reconciliation fixes. That’ll be helpful video to have as the Senate immediately decides to ignore the bill the House sends them tonight.

How is she going to hold on to the names of the “41″ that will not vote yes, but she is agreeing to vote yes? I don’t understand the reasoning.

I don’t know why anyone in the Pro-Choice Caucus should expect any respect from this White House. They’ve rolled over for this bill. They’ll vote for it no matter what’s in the EO. So why bother to tell them what’s in it?

god, that photo. buncha men sittin around, tradin the chattel. the lot of them can kiss my entire ass.

Is anyone saying anything about the conscience clause language, Jane. I thought it was only supposed to deal with Hyde, which is bad enough, but the language of the order talks about Church and Weldon and uses the language “new protections”. Isn’t he extending conscience clause protection to corporate entities? Am I not reading that right? This goes beyond any conscience clause we have yet, and again, it reads “new protections”.

Will one…just ONE member of the Pro-Choice Caucus get up on their hind legs and say “no”, this is bullshit?

Stupak put it on the line for his beliefs…according to him, he endured living “hell” for last few days. And…I believe him. The pressure must have been ALMOST…unbearable.

What will pro-choice Democrats put on the line for THEIR beliefs…?

We’ll know for sure shortly. But, really…I think everybody already knows.

Not a damn thing.

So the point I raised on the other thread was completely true?! Wow, that was hard to guess…. ;-)

Well, there you have it people……

The saying goes like this:

It’s all over!!!!

Politicians are scumbags……

What did Cher once call politicians?

She said they are like used car salesmen…….that was quite fitting when Cher said it then and is applicable now as well.

As I said yesterday, I am not angry or dissapointed. I expect the sh$t to come down like this…..

The Democrats are a nothing party……They are as destructive as the Republicans and then some.

MI Dem governor Granholm using pensions to force retirement of experienced teachers.
Sat Mar 20th 2010, 07:38 PM

“…For a long time many of us have seen the writing on the wall…that experienced teachers who worked their way to higher salaries would be paying the price for the dismantlement of public education….We could see it starting even before I retired. There was resentment building from leadership in the schools to any of us who were on continuing contracts. It was pretty obvious also. They did not even try to hide their contempt….Get rid of the experienced teachers, the new ones are easier to manipulate….New teachers are so much cheaper, no experience needed.”

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/5867

Of course they won’t. Send coat hangers to the lot of them.

No of course not.

Saint Obama has spoke, all loyal party members must blindly follow off the cliff while Rahm smiles and swims in his money.

We have a health-care reform! Rejoice folks! It is an accomplishment we can savor for years! It may actually help keep the House & Senate in Democratic hands. They are not anywhere near as progressive as I would like, but after living through W, WJC, Bush I, Ronald Reagan, JEC, GF, & Dick, I’ll take what I can get in the way of pro-social change. Back, before he even took office, when BHO was being compared to FDR, I said, if BHO can get us HCR, like FDR got us social security, that will be enough to secure his place on Mount Rushmore.

Now, let’s get re-regulation of Wall Street done, and reform of immigration policy.

“This bill is about health care–not about abortion.” Obamalosi.

Are medical reproductive services not considered health care? Are not-man-parts not covered?

Who do we send the coat hangers to?

a pleasant thought all congresscritters are now OBGYNs…..sweet
the old joke

become a gynecologist a good area to go IN TO

Just saw Lynn Woolsey say she “trusts our Speaker and trusts the Senate” on the reconciliation fixes.

I’m so pissed she’s my Rep.

I called the D.C. office to say that principles only have value when they’re tested, and that I’d never trust anything she said again – and they were completely unconcerned.

I’m waiting for the Neville Chamberlain moment later tonight – “Health Reform in our time!”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

what the hell are you smokkin?

Wow, did your keyboard come without a snark tag, or is that for realz?

This is going to sound melodramatic and some may think exaggerated, but after watching this entire theatrical production in the last year, the US is toast. It’s quite obvious that everything done federally is for the corporations, and nobody else. Any nation that does this, is toast. The superpower of the globe, has probably got 10 years or so left, and that’s it. Since 2000, the freakish behaviour of the DC beltway and politicians in general, has shown that this was in the works all along. Wonder who the corporations have chosen as the new superpower.

Nope, I’ll be mourning tonight.

Celebration is for when a bill that has good things in it passes.

Financial re-regulation and immigration reform?!?!? HA! Have you seen the so called “bills” coming up for those? They’re just as backwards.

Take the chip out of your brain.

Can’t bear it any more. Switched to “Born Yesterday” on TCM. A much better choice to get drunk with.

Message on my machine this afternoon from the Sestak campaign wanting help. AFAIC I’m giving all my money to NAFF and the local PP.

Screw them all. No more votes for anyone from this household.

This collusion between Obama and the healthcare-industrial complex to drain off the Treasury to the coffers of AHIP members and keep Obama in power is nothing short of fascism. He deserves that Hitler mustache the TeaBaggers draw on him.

Here’s some gallows humor – Grijalva last October:

Rep. Raul Grijalva (D-Ariz.) told the Huffington Post that he and fellow liberals within the House would not be “rolled” over in a key debate regarding the reimbursement rates rewarded under a public option. Noting that the preponderance of votes were there to reimburse providers at a rate paid under Medicare (plus five percent), Grijalva called out his party’s leadership in Congress and the White House for entertaining a provision that would allow the rates to be negotiated.

“If the issue is who is going to blink first and the assumption is the progressive caucus is going to roll over… that is a test that leadership and the White House might want to reconsider,” he said.

Way to go Grijalva! Thanks to the invertebrate progressive caucus, AHIP got everything it wanted.

What is this, Kossacks R Us day on FDL? Jeebus.

Hey Deb, long time. Glad to see you on this very sad day.

We should call him Blinky.

Think I will go sit out on the porch for a while. See ya.

Pro-choice caucus:
You gave it up to Obama and thought he would still love you in the morning. Face facts. He’s already gotten to third base with a new woman. You guys were used and tossed aside. He doesn’t even care about your feelings.
Are you sadder but wise now? Of course not.

Thanks to the invertebrate progressive caucus. There, fixed it for you.

We seem to be the only ones who “get” what a tragedy this is.

You aren’t alone. Just a massive influx of partisanship sweeping the blogs today. Wonder how much that is costing the Dem Party.

Jesus Christ, Mother Mary nailed to a cross! What are you talking about!

As if Things Weren’t Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.
In Moscow, Igor Panarin’s Forecasts Are All the Rage America ‘Disintegrates’ in 2010
By Andrew Osborn
Wall Street Journal
December 29, 2008

“….For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument — that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. — very seriously. Now he’s found an eager audience: Russian state media…..At the end of the presentation, he says many delegates asked him to autograph copies of the map showing a dismembered U.S…..He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in…..California will form the nucleus of what he calls “The Californian Republic,” and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of “The Texas Republic,” a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an “Atlantic America” that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls “The Central North American Republic.” Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia….Americans hope President-elect Barack Obama “can work miracles,” he wrote. “But when spring comes, it will be clear that there are no miracles.”....The professor says he’s convinced that people are taking his theory more seriously. People like him have forecast similar cataclysms before, he says, and been right. He cites French political scientist Emmanuel Todd. Mr. Todd is famous for having rightly forecast the demise of the Soviet Union — 15 years beforehand. “When he forecast the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976, people laughed at him,” says Prof. Panarin….”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html#printMode

The bill itself is a tragedy. The fact that this administration has completely corrupted the entire Democratic Party is beyond grief.

is it too late to send rubber gloves to the white house,house and senate?

The “Renewing America’s Promise” Platform that the Democratic Party adopted and ran on is what turns out to be the biggest con, not Obama’s Hope and Change or all the “trust our leaders” crap….all Democrats should be made to explain why they accepted or voted against the principles they sold to those who voted them in….the Best and Brightest…what a joke.

See, I’ve always believed (if we are going to legislate on someone’s beliefs) that some middled aged and old men go limp because God is telling them “It’s someone else’s turn to breed.” So I believe that there should be no funding (or ability to buy insurance for) any of those blue pills that help them keep it up. Can I get that in the law?

under our very noses,Orwellian NEW speak took place and turned hope into a bad word

Hey, they have the whole Born Yesterday on YT! Think I’ll join you!

Anyone read the April Harper’s cover story titled “The Disappearing Liberal”?

Michele Bachmann says that the Executive Order sucks because “pro-abortion Democrats have no objection to it.”

But what would the C Street xtians do for fun?

I do not know. I’ve been trying to get an authoritative read on it, but people are still sifting through and I’m not a legal expert.

In a perfect world, the pro-choice groups would have policy wonks at the ready to do this. Any other self-respecting lobbyist outfit would.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/

Nope, nothing on their front page. Zip.

Teddy, how come we never catch a break on this crap? Do progressives have a single law on the books near and dear to our hearts since we retook congress, the Senate and White House?

Extra points if it seriously pissed of conservatives and blue dogs.

Do Pro Choice and NARAL folks think anybody cares what they think or say? They are totally irrelevant to any legislative deal making. Until they show that they are willing to walk away from the deal – they’ll stay that way. Who cares what they think.

cannot watch MSGOP,or newshour anymore TCM is my station of choice,cant take the modern reality it is a bitter pill

I was just thinking that. Where are their lawyers.

Also, if the 41 are prepared to take a bold stand, why are they too chicken to announce it publicly.

and turned hope into a bad word

It is a bad word when what one should be doing is verifying.

“Should I make him use a condom? Nahh, I’ll just hope he doesn’t have STD’s.”

ok heading out…im in despair

And, as laws go, if we are going to admit someone’s belief that life begins at conception become law, then let’s allow deductions for spontaneous abortions and miscarriages. BTW, women undergoing in vitro process (mostly paid by themselves without insurance) often have multiple (even dozens) of spontaneous abortions. Can they now take deductions for, say, five or more ‘almost’ children during that process? Why not, Bart Stupid?

NOW and NARAL have been had. Period.

from Digby last week:

From the 2008 Democratic Party Platform:

“The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to choose a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay, and we oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.”

not much more to be said.

And the Precious Obama cannot do anything to STOP China from moving its reserve currency into euros from dollars either and the Chinese are already doing this……

The HCR bill is nothing but a giveaway to the big corporations and the Obama White House’s convoluted thinking that this measure will somehow “save the economy” and looming econmic collapse of the American economy…..

Obama and his team are idiots and I literally speaking.

Obama has already made the Chinese angry at America. China is not the enemy. America is its own worst enemy. America had better relations with China under yes, you got it, George W. Bush. It’s not wise to get your creditors angry and scapegoat them for your own country’s decision to outsource its jobs and employment pool….

It is not Chinese government’s fault that America and its corporations decided to move to China. Blame the corpotations and politicians in America for this.

This HCR is a ruse and don’t let them feed you the bogus lines and lies that it will “help the economy.”

Lilly Ledbetter Pay Suit Equity.

Mathew Shepard/James Byrd Hate Crimes.

Pretty sure those pissed off some righties.

Yes, they certainly have…..

But blame those weak kneed Democrats without a spine who allowed the Obama White House to roll them like that.

sharkbabe, sadlyyes & teddy: Ya take what you can get. I agreed with Frank Rich, way back when, BHO is a corporatist! But this bill is progress! Let’s see what the final vote is, but imagine the money that would have been spent to defeat this reform if BHO hadn’t caved to the pharmaceutical industry!

Hey RHowe, AHIP got everything they wanted. And so did PhRMA and the rest of the health care industry.

I can only imagine how Wall Street regulation is going to turn out. Will we all be mandated to buy shares of Goldman Sachs? Maybe the government could hit the middle class with a 40% tax to help subsidize our tithing to big business.

Joe Hoeffel is running for governor in PA. I don’t think he’s been corrupted… so, I called to volunteer for his campaign.

“Born Yesterday” is a great choice!

It is clear that anyone who signed pledges have and had no intention of HONORing them. They were going to go along with this no matter what was in it. As long as the progressive groups like moveon were going along with it no matter what, why would the pro-choice group care.
As a parent, if there are no consequences for behavior, children never learn right from wrong. Obviously we can not expect anything more from our elected officials. If there are no consequences for the broken pledges, why would they care. “What are we going to do, vote republican?” That is the new democratic slogan.

Because they’re not actually going to take a stand, they just wanted to say they would.

Denial of services by providers on the basis of Moral objection has been there a long time. I agree that it seems unconstitutional to restrict funding to services that are legal. But just like the whole situation regarding abortion, the horse was out of the barn long ago. I even have some sympathy for the pro choice Congress women and men, if they have received the apathetic responses I have from young women. Hard to lead a strong fight with only feeble support. Most seem to have no concern about the issue.

That said I find Obama’s treatment of women in general borders on frank misogyny. This failure to even follow civil SOP is an example.

and have been rendered utterly USELESS and WORTHLESS for Women who want and actually believe in “choice” as it presently “exists” in America…..

Abortion rights are becoming more and more undermined these days and its enblers of its demise reside in the Democratic Party and with all those faux “Feminists.”

Please don’r call those women in the Democratic Party “Feminists.”

Looks like maybe someone in the WH knows how to play chess:
“Talking about weak Pawn positions, there is a position which I am sorry to say I often see a second player get into. It is, when his Queen’s Pawn is at Queen’s 3, and he plays Pawn to Queen’s Bishop 4, so that he cannot get his Queen’s Pawn forward. That leaves the Queen’s Pawn exceedingly weak, and more than that, it leaves again a big hole at his Queen’s 4, for a hostile Knight or Bishop. Develope your forces and keep your eye on that weak Pawn and with intent and purpose go- for it and you will win. The game should be yours. It will give so much trouble and loss of time to defend that Pawn, that the game should fall on it.”

my new slogan is “Why vote? It only encourages them.”

This is the current statement NOW has up.

http://www.now.org/press/03-10/03-21a.html

I just called asking about the conscience clause language and “new protections”. They said “we are currently working on another statement”.

RevDeb, it is mighty nice to see you in here.

The entire guiding *ethic* of the Democratic Party is that principles are simply bargaining chips in the big cynical game of realpolitik.

I’d like to ask the *practical* progressives this: In the upcoming Immigration debate (an extreme example to make a point and I’m NOT suggesting this!!), what would you think of a proposal that would grant instant full citizenship to current undocumented aliens, but would give the government the right to shoot anyone entering the country illegally in the future? Horrifying? Immoral? To me, yes. To you, I would guess yes. Gosh…not to the Minutemen, maybe not to Tom Tancredo, maybe not to many Republicans…hell, maybe not to some Democrats. But it’s all a tradeoff, right? Baby steps? Think of all the good the bill would do, right? And how could you condemn all the current undocumented aliens to further fear and exploitation and allow further illegal immigration? Maybe if our legislators told us that it was the only bill they could pass and promised to fix the bill in the future so we’d only shoot, say, half the illegal entrants, or only break their legs, that would make it OK.

The question is: WHAT IS ABSOLUTE? WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

My point is, when you start trading off the moral bases of civilized society for political or economic expediency, you begin to go down a steep and slippery slope. Our culture has succeeded in commodifying and debasing just about every value that anyone holds dear. DOES IT EVER STOP ITSELF? If not, WHO stops it?

Not yet; it’s still in my mail.

That makes my point. That horse is out of the barn.

As I’ve repeatedly posted: “Hope is the neurosis of modern man”-Camus.

Bull Cookies…..That is another Democratic Party Lie!!!!

One term…

NOW’s got nothing. What are they going to do, send a letter to Obama telling him how upset they are? Until they pose a threat, they’ve got nothing.
‘

It doesn’t take much, let alone something really human.

Congratulations Democrats! It took you and President Orahma to pass the Republicans’ “health care reform” bill. You should be proud.

Tell me about the planet you just returned from. I would really like to be so oblivious to the reality of what is happening under Obama.

Planned Parenthood
Now
NARAL

Throw all these groups into the Garbage Can!!!! They are utterly useless and political animals first and foremost who care more about maintaining “access to power” whatever that means to its detestable leaders, and allow its core principles to be usurped all in the name of what?

These organizations are USELESS and I see no need for their existence at all!!!

I will be blocking them from now on in my emails. I am so done with all three of these groups! They are disgusting!

Memo to the Obama haters: It’s over. Really. The “weak” President has carried the day. IF you think that the “country loses” by passing this bill, you’re welcome to join the wingnut brigade known as the tea party movement. As for me? I’ll stake my opinion firmly on the “victory” side. Tonight, Healthcare will no longer be a privilege..it will be considered a RIGHT in the US. THAT’S Progress.

Swell! I’m sure their statement will be a great consolation to all the women who now will get to read in writing that their reproductive health and the decisions that they make are now subject to group discussion by people who will not have to live with consequences.

I’ve believed for a long time that it’s all rigged and the whole process is in place to make us believe they care what we think.

Any guesses on how much health insurance stocks will go up tomorrow?

5%? 10%? More??

I assume you exaggerate for emphasis. Wall Street reform will not be perfect. True. Already we know the consumer protection piece will stay with Bernake! Bummer! So, your suggestion is that we skip all progress because the available progress ain’t perfect?

Well, I was proposing withholding children in my last post, but maybe sex really would be more effective.

And we’d need some way to get it on HuffPost to get enough attention.

Heh

I wonder if you’ll be singing that tune in 2012. There is a such thing as winning the battle and losing the war.

I suspect that is exactly what is happening today.

Oh and for the record I don’t “hate” the guy. I hate his actions. There’s a difference.

I don’t agree with you when it comes to the PP clinics. For way too many women it’s the only place they can get health care or a safe legal abortion. Support the clinics, not the c-4 lobby organization.

If it only it put healthcare as a right. It doesn’t. There’s no such “right
s” language in the bill.

And one can conscientiously and thoughtfully oppose this bill from the left as I do.

Now we are not only reduced to being serfs to our feudal lords, Aetna, Wellpoint and BC/BS, we get to have tons of babies too!
No wonder all the liberal blogosphere is rejoicing like it’s the 1200′s again. It might as well be.

Universal health care for all, is also in there.

You’re right. You can’t say much more than that.

Ezra Klein just salivated on the Ed Schultz show on MSNBC…..They all view this as an “exciting moment.”

Eugene Robinson–”Democrats feel pride in doing this” and that the Dems have “done something now for the Middle Class.”

That’s a winner—you could sell that one-

Hamsher has no evidence that NARAL is upset about the deal. Nothing has been posted in the NARAL website to this effect.

Obama is weak—he had to literally BRIBE people and THREATEN others regareding their congressional seats and still receiving money from the DNC to support this CRAP!!!!

Enjoy the Individual Mandates when you are down on your luck!!!!

But the insurance companies will ask for your house, your car, and your first born child. You’ll love it !

NARAL are Accomodationists……These people are sellouts and do not have to say anything…..to know they are sellouts.

Message on my machine this afternoon from the Sestak campaign wanting help.

Yeah, I got a snail mail from him yesterday, and an e-mail from, among others, Tim Walz. Here’s my response:

Well, that’s too bad, Tim.

I had really supported you, and had high hopes for you.

I first voted as a Democrat in 1968 [the voting age had not yet been lowered to 18]. I’ve voted Democratic in every election since then. But I am dismayed at the travesty that this “health care reform” bill — a bill written by the drug manufacturers and insurance companies — has become.

You can tell it was written in secret by these folks because of the important “changes” that aren’t there: the insurance companies anti-trust exemption continues; the ban on “re-importation” of drugs stays; the patent protection [that keeps generics off the market] is still around; the venal and immoral “mandate” exists unabated; there’s no public option to provide competition to insurance premiums, co-pays and deductibles; and, just today, it appears that Obama is willing to “trade” away women’s righst to control their bodies in exchange for votes from Stupak et al.

I wish that you, and your “health care issues” legislative assistant, had spent some time reading the analysis of the short-comings of this bill, and the phoniness of the promises, at places like the FireDogLake blog, instead of relying on OFA and the DNC to provide “information.”

See, for example, http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/fact-sheet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill/. ; This is from a group that has supported Obama, and supported reform of health care for the last year, and which looks at this issue objectively, not “politically” [e.g., "Obama needs to win or he won't be able to get other legislation passed."]

This bill is a disaster. The Republicans are going to bash Democrats with it for decades, and Democrats deserve it.

This is the worst “performance” by Democrats that I’ve seen in over 40 years. I donated to Obama, I campaigned for Obama, I bugged my friends with e-mails supporting Obama, I participated in phone banks and GOTV efforts. But this background does NOT blind me to the deficiencies and downright dishonesty of this President. I will NOT be supporting the Democratic Party — except, perhaps, good “down-ticket” candidates — with either my time or my money. And that now, apparently, includes you.

With regret, sadness, and not a small amount of anger,

I’m sorry, who?

hmmmmmm–interesting take—sorry I can’t agree with you

Maybe NOW should suggest, subtly (don’t want to offend Kos), that this bill, accompanied by it’s EO, is not quite right for supporters of women’s rights…

The Pro-Choice Caucus has votes, and votes are POWER…they can’t pretend that they’re helpless in this debate, Goddamnit…

How many votes did Stupak have…?

What’s wrong with these people…?

Damn, the conviction of you folk is beginning to sound like the tea-party folk I heard recently over at tbogg. I am sorry if this reform does not suit your needs, but it does help a shit-load of people!

“Our culture has succeeded in commodifying and debasing just about every value that anyone holds dear.” ;understand the perspective but ‘every value’ is just too broad to respond to. You know, there are ethical,moral,business,legal,etc. values.

As an example:
I draw the line at the idea that corporations have any rights that a living breathing person does. From there, a lot would unfold. I draw the line that anyone has any rights over another human being except those that ,in exercising one’s sovereignty over mind and body, one willing accedes to another. And so on.

But speaking of ‘immigration reform, please see/read this. And note what this legislation does re ‘legal immigrants’.

Please make me feel better. Point to the spot in this bill that says I have a right to health care without going bankrupt. you do mean health insurance and not care, right? There is nothing in this bill that gives me the right to health care. I still can’t afford insurance. And if you think this bill gives the right of health care, why it that by 2019 with this bill there will still be 24 million without health care? Plus according to this bill they can charge me 3 times what they charge younger people. Where am I going to get that kind of money? And I sure don’t expect you to pay for it.

Yep, I can’t wait for all the moistened pronouncements of how, like Obama’s election, this is “history.”

Just like the United States.

You have it backwards. This bill gives the insurance companies the RIGHT to charge you whatever they want for whatever product they design just because you’re breathing. This doesn’t provide a “right” to health care, it provides an obligation to buy a for profit company’s product. There’s a difference, one that’s apparently lost on you.

more and wish I had bought lots of it earlier–

It is called “politics!”

The ‘you folk’ thing – not the way to make friends.

I quit NARAL when they endorsed LIEberman over Lamont. Never looked back.

Yes it does help a shitload of people.

Insurance company CEO’s and owners of insurance company stock.

What’s next on the agenda? A few have mentioned social security “reform”.

Here’s a pointer to the direction that will be going in….take the version from the 15 or 1600′s. It’ll be something like it, with an added “corporate” dimension.

Not until 2014 it doesn’t, and maybe not many then.

“Self-respecting” in the same sentence with Planned Parenthood, NARAL and NOW??

I don’t think so. [And I know you don't either.]

They’ll tell people off-the-record that they’re unhappy.

It’s similar to how they secretly signed a letter promising to stand up for abortion rights. Such courage!

Insurance company CEO’s and owners of insurance company stock.

Indeed

Do progressives have a single law on the books near and dear to our hearts since we retook congress, the Senate and White House?

And after today, is there a single individual on ActBlue or BlueAmerica to whom we’d contribute?

Health care for all, Sharia law for not men.

Seems that a lot of people think they are going to get brand spanking new coverage starting tomorrow. What a shock they are going to get.

Of course RHowe because if one opposes something Orahma wants, one MUST be a teabagger. Aren’t you overdue at Daily Kos?

I think we would all like to believe our politicians care about us personally or at least emotionally. We certainly want them to have some moral courage and altruistic impulses etc. But they are politicians and those virtues are typically only actualized occasionally.

But unlike authoritarian systems in a well functioning democracy we are not so dependent on their personal character. In a democracy the people have much more power to force them to speak and act in behalf of the people.

I sometimes think we, myself included, too often want to elect a some really good guys and forget about things, rather than using our immense power to structure our public institutions the way we want them..

Among the reasons for my admiration of Jane is her recognition of the fact that you gotta get in their face and tell them.

Bill Clinton was to the Left of Obama, not that that is saying alot, so whatever.

absolutely not !

“it will be considered a RIGHT in the US.” ; only for some and that’s not for another 3 years; oh,well, what’s another 188,000 dead people? THAT’S Progress.”; but at what cost? The enshrinement of private companies as the source of healthcare?

And it’s not progress when Obama DELIBERATELY acts to sandbag Durbin’s legislation for re-importation. Or when Obama deliberately acts against a public option because of backroom deals he struck with the ‘stakeholders’ (while excluding those whose arguments would have been in opposition to those deals).

You are way too easily satisfied.

dittos

the gal who is primarying StupakStupid.

Why do you think I am here to make friends?

Which is saying something since he was right of Reagan.

Read the bill!

My gawd Jane, it’s the same with the teacher’s unions! State legislators and governors around the nation are attacking teachers and their unions with Obama’s blessing and I can’t find much of anything on the union websites to tell me about what’s happening and where we need to go next. This is crisis mode and they don’t have people manning their websites 24/7? What’s wrong with these people?

See ya in November.

The Democrats will learn a lesson on the consequences of shitting all over it’s base.

I am not sure they have been had. It is starting to look like they are just organizations taking your money to pay their salaries. e.g. moveon, dfa, ofa,Emilys list as well, as Naral. If they actually stood up for what they believed and won, why would we keep funding them?

You misunderstand. The democrats WIN! That’s the only important thing. A WIN for Orahma and the Democrats. Take that Republicans! Cause you LOSE! One for OUR team! Rah! Rah! Rah! What??? The American PEOPLE lose you say? Who are they???

Ezra K and Eugene R are two classic examples of how shallow, expedient accommodating DC liberals are.

As I said yesterday, I am not angry or dissapointed. I expect the sh$t to come down like this…..

I’m disappointed and truly horrified at how many progressive bloggers bought into this POS and hurled insults at anyone who was at all critical of the bill. They just bought an over-priced clunker, and they’re bragging that they must have got a great deal because the guy who sold it to them was a real nice man.

And when you suggest that maybe they paid too much for a car with only three wheels, no engine, and a tail pipe that vents into the interior of the car – they start yelling at you: “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good!”

“Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good!”

I hope I never, ever hear that damn phrase again in my life.

Why bother? I mean, if NONE of the “pro-choice caucus” will vote against this damn bill, do you really think some newbie UPer is going to stand up to King Charming? I highly doubt it.

Read the bill!

Maybe you should. OldFatGuy is exactly right.

O/T a little, but does anybody have a rundown of which taxes kick in when? The story has been, collect taxes for ten years, then start paying benefits four years later (covering six years). Supposedly, the excise tax now takes effect in 2018, but is that only for union plans and does the tax kick in for tax year 2010 on everybody else?

I need some simple answers with which to skewer my idiot Obamabot loyalist friends.

Hmmm–at least I’ll be living in the part that will become part of the EU. Or I could maybe immigrate north and settle in a state that will be part of Canada. I’ve always liked New England.

Mr Triangulator? Left of BHO? You wouldn’t kid me now would ya?

Rahm will whisper to his boss not to worry. Those smelly, liberal hippies will come around and vote for him again. After all, what choice do they have?

Yeah, they tell those on the left that, while simultaneously bending over backwards to provide the perfect that assholes like Stupak demand.

Yes, yes, we’ve Won !! Boehner and Cantor had their clocks cleaned!!. We are the big bad dems and the GOP knows with out a doubt who is the boss !!

And when you suggest that maybe they paid too much for a car with only three wheels, no engine, and a tail pipe that vents into the interior of the car –

What a perfect description of this legislation, particularly the tailpipe thing.

But isn’t carbon monoxide odorless, so those cheering occupants may not wake up to their car’s “character” any time soon.

And even though you can’t “drive” on three wheels, they’ll still be running the motor and producing the CO.

Oh, fuck, “no engine.” Well, I’m sure they’ll still figure out some way to asphyxiate themselves.

how about stay home?

So, you’re gonna punish those Dems for not voting as you wished! Lynn Chaney is in the wings.

Obama is to the right of Bill Clinton.

Let’s try this again…Tonight, Healthcare will swing from “privilege” to “right” for US citizens. Why?? We’re not moving to cover 32 million more people which can be continually adusted UPWARDS. Is it a “fanstasic bill now?” No. Does it all happen at once? No… It IS historic because the argument over HC as a right will have been settled by the “turn” towards universal coverage…Today’s vote is the “baseline” for improvements.

My health care reform analogy:

A bully beats the shit out of you every day and takes your lunch money. To prevent this, at the beginning of the year you give him a big fat check. He smiles and pinkie swears to not bother you anymore.

Is rewarding bad actors good policy?

“What are we going to do, vote republican?”

Nope, but I’m surely not going to vote Democratic again. If there’s a Green on the ballot, I’ll vote for them, otherwise I’ll write in a suitable choice.

There is no “rights” language in the bill. There simply isn’t, and you can’t point to it.

how about stay home?

That or third party. My alliance with the Democrats officially comes to an end today.

Yeah, I agree. Please.

Yes, it helps the shitload of insurance and pharma executives and their investors a whole bunch! Me and other poor, working people and women and gays, not so much.

Today’s vote is the “baseline” for improvements.

Do you really think the drug manufacturers and health insurance companies, now many times richer with all that mandate money, are going to sit quietly on the sidelines while “improvements” get through?

And which “improvements” do you think will be the first to succeed?

** end of anti-trust exemption for insurance companies?
** allowing re-importation of drugs [oh, tried already & failed just a few weeks ago];
** end of extension of patent protection keeping generics off the market?

Please indicate your likely scenario for the “improvements” you envision.

It almost comes across as satire. Mount Rushmore, really? Did we sell that to AHIP, too?

Oh it’s not just me. Nooooooo way. Millions more like me.

This site is just the tip of the iceberg. November should be a real eye opener for the Democrats and the consequences of shitting on their base.

And they deserve to get their clocks cleaned.

Healthcare will swing from “privilege” to “right” for US citizens.

Bullshit. Healthcare remains totally optional, while private insurance becomes mandatory whether you actually want or like your policy or not.

Kelly is correct. The only rights spelled out or implied in this bill is the “right” of the insurance companies to have YOU for a customer, whether YOU want to be or not.

A right for which you may have to pay 20% of your family’s income.

The Feudal States Of America.

Welcome to another day under the command and control of The New World Order.

There are many ways you can describe being compelled to buy a company’s product but “a right” isn’t one of them.

How dare you say I sound like a tea party person? they are just like you, they have no clue as to what is in this bill and are just parroting what the corporate media is allowing them to know. You are the type of person who is destroying this country and then when it all is revealed that we were right, you will look back to today and say, “oh gee, I knew all along, that bill would not save any lives” and that by the time it kicks in in 2014, 180,000 more people will have died in this country. Or maybe you will never get it. People like you are all about winning “victory”. Who care if your fellow citizens are going to suffer under this bill.

Actuallly, Priscilla, look it over. Ya might find some bright spots.

Why do you keep repeating that lie? Healthcare does NOT become a right. Purchasing insurance from for-profit companies becomes mandatory. BIG DIFFERENCE.

One of the first “improvements” will be scaling back the subsidies, thus saving the federal government billions of dollars! Isn’t that great?

Interesting question: why ARE you here?

My analogy of what Firedoglake is doing vis-a-vis Health Care Reform

A policeman comes along and tries to save you from the bully. He does, and then promises to help you out on your way to school each day and make sure you can buy your lunch- but can’t get rid of the bully.
So, angered by this policeman’s inability (or ‘refusal’) to make the bully vanish, you kill the policeman, chop off his head and hang the carcass upside down over a doorway, labelled with the word “traitor”; thus liberating the bully and all of his friends to come back at you many times as strong…

I agree. I can’t work up the energy to oppose the bill. Go Team.

“this is not an abortion bill” “historic reform must pass at all costs”

I wonder what excuse they will come up with for voting in favor of the FY2011 HHS appropriations bill with Hyde language in it.

Possibly Steve lynch from Mass, if he actually follows through on what he said about the bill and votes no, I have every intention of sending him money. No more money on pledges, only actions.

You funny.

What???????

Did I miss something or are most of the feminist websites very quiet on this matter?

I have not checked today, but as of late, late last night there was nothing about this cave.

I find this very disappointing…

The problem here is that too many are worrying about the corporations. I respect that some folks don’t like private insurers but single-payer would NEVER get support from docs (50% paycuts tend to get pushback) and NO hcr would pass in US with doctor opposition…Working with the current platform the Dems have put a stake in “healtcare as a right”…AFter tonight, the pressure can be applied to each individual initiative (drug importation, exchanges for all, etc)….The climb was too steep to get everything at once. Tonight’s historic legislation is not “an end”…it’s a new road to a new continuum.

Along about August or September, when the Democrats’ numbers are looking nothing short of devastating, the Kossacks will finally stop strutting and they’ll want to hold hands and sing Kumbaya again so that we’ll go vote for these same people who have betrayed us. Count me out. They sold us out when we needed them to stand up and be “better Democrats” as they like to say.

Why don’t you tell us what the bright spots are. I want details, if you actually have any. I especially like that part where they make it illegal for states to have single-payer for 7 years from the signing of the bill. Now why would you want to stop states from having single-payer if they want it?

Yeah. Sandbagger in Chief.

Needs help to counter a bully, then can somehow magically kill the bully?

Makes no sense.

Working with the current platform the Dems have put a stake in “healtcare as a right”

Yeah…right in it’s heart….like Dracula.

You are right. I should not have brought up tea baggers. No one here is unyielding or uncompromising.

When do the mandates kick in, ’cause that’s when the stuck-pig squealing is going to start.

Is there a test I was supposed to pass first?

That and anyone who dared to vote against the bill was immediately taged with “primary them now” by almost all of the DKos posters, usually in a very personal matter.

It seems that the days of just agreeing to disagree are gone.

Yeah. Mine makes more sense but his is more incomprehensible.

I still want to know why you’re here. You’re certainly not convincing anybody. And I’m breaking one of my cardinal rules and feeding a troll. Shame on me.

Not just the party – almost the entire progressive blogosphere has become overrun with cheerleading Obama loyalists determined to marginalize and demonize any and all critical voices.

After all, aside from contempt for the establishment media, the single greatest fuel for the rise of the liberal blogosphere was contempt for the Democratic Party’s corporatism… That’s what is somewhat ironic about the blogosphere’s almost-unanimous support for this health care bill (as well as their increasingly rabid, TNR-style demonization campaign against the handful of people on the Left who actually stuck to their guns and who are thus now viewed as worse than Pol Pot)…

You, and folks just like you, seem to enjoy coming by here and in one way or another call us stupid, childish, teabaggers, etc. etc. etc.

Yet I think you must be a Democrat, yes??

Do you not even understand that you’re just rubbing salt in the wound of a lot of folks that voted for Obama and the Democrats the last time? Do you think your snarky remarks are going to make us more likely to come crawling back to the Democrats in November??

I can’t help but wonder if you’re not cutting off your nose to spite your face, to use another stereotype.

But, see ya in November. We’ll see what the consequences are of shitting all over the D base AND ridiculing them when they have the audacity to complain about it.

Keep it up. You’re probably helping to make it even more of bloodbath.

Thanks, OFG.

I also forgot about defunding [or defanging] any “oversight” boards. Y’know, the ones that “regulate” premiums, deductibles, co-pays, and that elusive “pre-existing condition” thing-y.

Tons more money saved in not paying personnel to work on these.

They just bought an over-priced clunker, and they’re bragging that they must have got a great deal because the guy who sold it to them was a real nice man.

Now, come on. It may not be running now, but he promised to fix it just as soon as he can.

Aargh

Thousands, millions more covered, inability to deny or cancel coverage . . . . are you really gonna make me copy and paste? It is progress! Yes! But Not Perfect

Your argument is that it’s not a “right” because insurers will profit from it. I understand the “corporatist” argument but hating insurers is not “progressive”….Covering 32 million Americans IS. WOuld you argue with an individual mandate with a gov’t program? Of course not!….Your focus is on insurers and their profits. I’m looking “universal healthcare” being UNDERSTOOD instead of debated. We’ll make progress STARTING from tonight. The bill is flat-out historic.

Top union officials have sold out the workers. they are all buddy, buddy with the management. I can give you some first hand accounts of the abuse that workers face from the union leaders. Don’t think, just shut your mouth and do as the authority figures tell you, just like our whole education system.

Tonight’s historic legislation is not “an end”…it’s a new road to a new continuum.

Does Charlie Brown wait in the Great Pumpkin Patch for the Easter Bunny?

You have NOT responded to my question of how you’re going to get these “improvements” past the Very Rich insurance companies and drug manufacturers.

And FWIW, I said nothing about “corporations,” so I don’t know where that part of your response came from.

It seems that the days of just agreeing to disagree are gone.

Orahma’s attitude has convinced them that they don’t need us, that we’ll “fall in line” in the end.

This is my favorite blog! I kid you not! I put FDL between BBC & CBC to be sure I read it early. Does everyone have to agree with everyone else to participate here? That’s scary!

Copy and paste the rescission language in the bill. Let’s have a real good look at how it’s any different than the rescission law today.

Please paste it.

Oh, geez, again. Millions more are covered–mandated to buy insurance they can’t afford. 20% of a family’s income does not work for these people who are now mandated to buy . . . excuse me, these people who now have the right to healthcare. Oh, lord, this is ridiculous. All you do is repeat your talking points. I’ll be back tomorrow when you’re gone.

even my doggett looks to be voting yes. color me disgusted and dismayed.

even my doggett looks to be voting yes. color me disgusted and dismayed.

Yeah. *sigh* Lloydd is f***ing up on this one.

Which is why it’s absolutely critical that we don’t fall in line in the end, and succomb to that “lesser of two evils” temptation. If we want to ever have a chace of convincing them to take us seriously, then we have to act seriously.

We need to send them the message “When you screw us, we’ll for real screw you right back”

Hi GW. Glad you are in.

Thousands, millions more covered, inability to deny or cancel coverage . . . . are you really gonna make me copy and paste?

Sweetheart, this is simply Not True.

Now the DNC and OFA may send you e-mails chanting this crap. But Publisher’s Clearinghouse sends “chances” to win. And those ads you see all over the internet promise that you can effortlessly lose weight or make money. Do you believe them?

Frankly, I would like you to “copy and paste,” because I’d like to see where you’re getting this crap. You’re being deluded.

Washington, D.C.[...] may join the European Union

Bleeping heck! That’s the last thing we need. First they ruin America and then Europe …..

Sorry, can’t engage, your message is too obscure for me. I know, I know it is my fault, but so be it . . .

The more you think about it, the more ridiculous it gets. Why take a secret pledge only so you can secretly back down later? It’s invisible kabuki theater.

Well, as I said, if this passes, my alliance with the Democrats will end. I meant it then and I mean it now.

And yet, there is your comment.
You’re welcome.

What I can say is that a hand grenade has been tossed into the American health care system. The result of this “law” is a big scrambly fucking mess. Progressives should take note of disaster capitalists success and move into the murky smoke of the change maelstrom to push for fixes.

The shell is cracked wide open, and many will resist touching anything for a while, but we must press on.

HUGE difference.

Signed, the fiscally consevative, socially liberal, rabidly sovereign feminist, who’s open-carrying and not at all happy!

I am sorry Kelli. That was a bluff. I really don’t have the energy to paste.

Mine too.

And I grew up in a union family. My father was an organizer/negotiator for the UFCW. I literally grew up attending Democratic functions and rubbing elbows with the Democratic establishment.

No more.

Ever.

I will NEVER forget this. Ever.

It that really what it takes to make you happy, have no one on the block who thinks differently?

As an American I have many rights, starting with the Bill of Rights in the US Constitution. You are right about one thing, this is historic. Never before has the federal government mandated the citizens of this country must purchase a product from a for-profit corporation or face a fine collected by the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS is now the collection agency for the insurance lobby.

You can sing and dance about that all you want. I had a minor heart problem 5 months ago. I still haven’t been able to pay the co-pays and bills from one night in the hospital on my “cadillac” public employee Blue Cross plan. I am facing filing for bankruptcy and I have had no follow-up care because I can’t AFFORD it. There is nothing in this bill that will help me, or the millions like me. Nothing. My premiums will go up, my co-pays will go up, everything will go up but, you’re right, they can’t just kick me out, unless, of course, they do it before 2014. If I’m still alive then.

So, anyone who disagrees is a troll?

I really don’t have the energy to paste.

Ah! See there Kelly? He doesn’t have the ENERGY to paste. It’s not that he doesn’t have the material to paste or the citations to paste, he lacks the ENERGY. Yep. Clicking and highlighting can take a lot out of your finger. Get some rest and soak your digits. Epsom salts work or Palmolive.

Perhaps. We’ll see.

single-payer would NEVER get support from docs (50% paycuts tend to get pushback) and NO hcr would pass in US with doctor opposition…

Amazing, the automatically assumed righteousness and insurmountable power all parties have EXCEPT US, the people. Doctors just would not tolerate a 50% cut in pay. We the People are last in line to get to fold our arms, shake our heads and say Nuh-uh, that won’t fly–you go back, fix that shit, and don’t let us see your face again until it’s RIGHT, got it?

Even the prez gets to fold his arms and go Nuh-uh like the stubborn teenage spawn of frightened, weak parents. Dennis Kucinich plainly revealed that he discussed PO and ERISA waiver on AFO, but nuh-uh, the president was “just not going to do that, so I quit asking him to.”

In this health care crisis, sacrifices are going to have to be made, O. says. By us, and only us, without limit. Right out in the open with “virtually nobody” noticing the odd distribution of sacrifice, or questioning or caring.

I don’t recall thanking you for anything. What did you give me?

Still can’t work up the “energy” for that copying and pasting, huh?

Definitely. TCM is the best channel on TV. Hands down.
Stopped watching news months ago, couldn’t take all the lies and proprganda. TCM is my sanity channel.
iT’S What TV should be. All entertainment, no commercials, and no spin.

Now, now, it’s not nice to push around the digitally depleted.

Amen! If I wasn’t so poor and broke and if I didn’t have principles and find it morally repugnant, I would buy stock in all the insurance companies I could tonight. The stock will go through the roof. Imagine, all these new mandated insurance purchasers, courtesy of the US Government and the IRS is the free collection agency to boot!

And of course I will still have to find a doctor/hospital/insurer that doesn’t have religious objections to treating me since they can now opt out of covering the things their religion doesn’t believe in. That’s some awesome history being made thee tonight, that is!

In other words, someone who’s not really like y’all . . .

And I’m glad to find FDL and Jane.

Peace.

PS – I also know to spell conservative correctly. Sometimes.

Nope. Come on! You can find the legislation online! It ain’t perfect but it is progress.

You won’t like it here. Trust me.

We may have more in common than either of us is aware of.

FREE and I MEAN FREE

Rod R. Blagojevich

If Obama is “Innocent” of Bribes and Threats made to others than DISMISS ALL CHARGES RIGHT NOW AGAINST Rod R. Blagojevich!!!!!

I suggest you read the works of Saint Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas and not be so Machiavellian by excusing the Unethical Behavior of the Obama White House and the Democratic Party led by Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer and Harry Reid to understand there should be morality in politics….

Without consistent ethics in politics, governments and nation’s literally fall apart and collapse.

i loved your comment last night about the comments getting interesting when the talk was of women screwing women. i’m glad your here too! there’s a lot of new folks that seem hard to get along with.

Wow.

Great post.

So far, I’m at 2:

One who can’t paste the “rights” language, and one who can’t paste the “rescission” language.

How many more talking points are there, and let’s just get them out of the way.

C’mon, seriously.
Read this, and come back and explain this position.

Check the sourcing at the bottom of the chart.

From NOW’s press release:

The message we have received today is that it is acceptable to negotiate health care on the backs of women, and we couldn’t disagree more.

They just received this message today? Someone needs to send them a link to Firedoglake. This message was sent out by Democratic leadership months ago. Maybe NOW’s still waiting for a pony to arrive with their mail.

thanks, that’s my first laugh of the day!

We are all pissed.
So we laugh…

The pro v. con stances on this landmark Wunder aren’t just worlds apart, evidently, but universes apart. Example: I think Mount Rushmore is UGLY, figuratively and literally, and that is why putting obama on it would be just about perfect. (He should LOOM more.)

RHowe doesn’t have enough energy to paste. You may be asking more than he or she can give by requiring clicking and reading.

Dear Jane,

Thanks again for all you do and this fight against this terrible healthcare bill which is nothing but a giveaway to corporate America….

Corporate America owns America, the Obama White House and the Democratic Party…..

Obama’s outburst against the United States Supreme Court was all show…..just typical empty words from “our president.”

I hope the USSC overturns this bill as well. Screw Obama and the useless Democrats…..

By the way, it’s too early for either side to be “celebrating.”

Just know that when they do not deliver on all these “fancy promises” in the HCR Bill–well, that day will not be so pretty to watch…..

One thing is clear—lots and lots of angry people right now and I would not dismiss that anger.

Now they are going to stamp their little feet and put out a sternly worded fund raising letter.

Very true…today proves that all too well.

Sigh

Gotta love this, from David Frum, conservative wanker extraordinaire, in his post about this bill being the Republican Waterloo:

“Could a deal have been reached? Who knows? But we do know that the gap between this plan and traditional Republican ideas is not very big. The Obama plan has a broad family resemblance to Mitt Romney’s Massachusetts plan. It builds on ideas developed at the Heritage Foundation in the early 1990s that formed the basis for Republican counter-proposals to Clintoncare in 1993-1994.”

http://www.frumforum.com/waterloo

Yes, yes, we have the Heritage Foundation’s version of health insurance “reform” with a kiss to the Catholic and anti-choice religious right and a deep obeisance to the corporate overlords. History, I tell you, history!

Success Democrats! Orahma and your super majorities will manage a squeaker vote to pass Republican health insurance legislation! Party on the south lawn, (BYOB)

How do you eat an elephant??? One bite at a time….You’re confusing the battle with the war. It was impossible to reign in drug cos, insurers, extend care to everyone and do it without a mandate –ALL IN ONE LEGISLATION. Tonight’s bill establishes a new direction and a baseline to win the war. That’s what Kucinich, Sanders, Howard Dean, Anthony Weiner realize. I’m hopeful that some here come to understand that.

Here is Jane’s fact sheet. Seems pretty clear to me. Love you, Jane!

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/fact-sheet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill/

indeed!

How can the president be “weak” when he has AHIP, PhRMA, and the entire health industry lobby behind him.

Also, I’m pretty sure Obama calls it health insurance reform. We all have a right to be forced to buy junk policies from health insurance companies and then have our claims denied.

It was impossible to reign in drug cos, insurers,

Yep! Especially when you’re making sweetheart deals and taking lobby money from them. Makes it REALLY impossible.

Aw, ya will too like it here! I don’t see any lockstep going on. Way far from it.

Priscilla, I’m so sorry about your health and troubles with health insurance. It’s maddening and saddening what has become important to the people who govern this country. As wizard has been saying, it’s a path that ultimately leads to the destruction of the country and the suffering of our people.

I assume you exaggerate for emphasis.

Which part? In my comment that you responded to, I said AHIP got everything they wanted. Read their press release from 2008, where they outline their proposal for health care reform:

Washington, DC – Health plans today proposed guaranteed coverage for people with pre-existing medical conditions in conjunction with an enforceable individual coverage mandate…

Health plans also said that premium support for moderate-income individuals and broad spreading of risk was necessary to promote affordability and maintain premium stability in the individual health insurance market.

To ensure that all Americans can access coverage, health plans also reiterated their long-standing support for making eligible for Medicaid every uninsured American living in poverty and strengthening the Children’s Health Insurance Program.

Also, forcing people to buy insurance – while using an excise tax to make policies worse over time – is not progress. The insurance companies can continue to deny claims and raise premiums to astronomical levels.

And some here are hoping folks like you will come to understand that this new direction this bill takes is the wrong direction. It further entrenches the totally unnecessary middleman for profit insurance companies rather than take any steps to lessen their grip around our health care.

And the way they’re shitting on women’s rights is absolutely in the wrong direction.

The mandate without getting rid of the anti-trust exemption is so far in the wrong direction that I can’t help but wonder what folks will think when the insurance companies start to legally get together and price fix. While we’re forced to purchase it.

Also, the mandate is the most dangerous precedent being set by the federal government in a long, long time. Never before have citizens been required by law to be customers of for-profit entities. Once that precedent is set, we will see a whole new direction, because every other industry is trying to figure out how to get their product/service mandated too.

There is no real cost controls here. The only thing that can be argued as a cost control will be the exchanges, but again, that’s a pretty weak cost control when the companies on those exchanges have an anti-trust exemption.

From not providing any care to anyone (only provides an insurance policy of which lots of folks now have policies and can’t afford care) to shitting on women to marching toward fascism, this is the wrong direction.

Hope you come to understand that.

Thanks so much, greenwarrior. As a public school teacher I get the double pleasure of watching my state (FL) gut my profession, cut my pay, increase my insurance, and destroy public education at the same time that congress is cementing the corporations’ control of America. Enough to make one weep. . . .

Thanks for the link. This is not about facts, it’s about perceptions. Our congressional reps did a great thing today for a huge number of citizens. Had this legislation been defeated BHO’s presidency would have immediately become lame duck. Ya want Eric Cantor, Jim DeMint in charge? The insularity among the commenters here at FDL does alarm me! Believe or not, FDL comments is a public place.

yes I want the copy and paste. a $100.00 fine for denying coverage. Now if you were the insurance company would you deny the coverage, or would you pay out the thousands for the care.

join the wingnut brigade known as the tea party movement.

The tea party brigade is a creation, its participants quintessential sheeple fueled by dim-witted attention hunger and hilarious self-importance. You can literally do ANYTHING with these people. Their purpose is to drown out legitimate protest. Time and again, FDL and Jane Hamsher, et al (us), are called tea baggers now, by strict democratic party/Obama adherents (the party firsters). So, it worked, and worked darn well. You pitched in too, nice going, and a great argument you have there: “Yall’r tea partiers.”

Yes, the policies the people we elected have been putting in place make for a very hard row to hoe.

congressional reps did a great thing today

It’s not done yet.

It was Dorgan’s amendment. Durbin actually voted against prescription drug reimportation.

Even senators who’ve long supported importing cheaper drugs are torn over Dorgan’s amendment, including the Senate’s No. 2 Democrat, Dick Durbin of Illinois.

“Many of us support it, but wonder if this is the right venue,” he said. “And it’s become — there’s a political subtext here that goes beyond the merits of the bill. And we don’t want to slow down this bill or stop it.”

The political subtext, Durbin added, is that keeping the money-saving deal with PhRMA intact may be a higher priority than risking that the drug import measure passes and scuttles that deal.

You can see who voted for and against the amendment at the end of this article. Durbin’s a nay.

If they were really “livid,” they would vote against the bill, but they won’t. The Pro-Choice Caucus and the Progressive Caucus are useless.

Good night & good luck!

This is not about facts,

Oh my. You do fit right in with the party establishment. Either party.

I’m wondering if YOU can find [and read] the legislation on-line, and if you can point to specific sections that support your allegations.

It appears to me, after repeated requests, that you can’t, so I’ll just have to assume you’re parroting the DNC/OFA talking points.

I have been holding it in. I just don’t want to cut loose on that.

Oh no! I’m so scared! What is she going to do? Send more troops to Afghanistan? Give more money to PhRMA and the insurance companies? Embrace Bush’s assaults on the Constitution?

[T]he most significant consequence of [Obama's] first year in office, in the area of civil liberties, is that — with a few exceptions (most notably torture) — he has transformed what were once highly controversial Republican “assaults on the Constitution” into bipartisan consensus which both parties now embrace, thus ensuring — as Baker put it — “that much of the Bush security architecture is almost certain to remain part of the national fabric for some time to come, thanks to Obama.” Thus, a President who imprisons people with military commissions or even no charges at all — and constantly invokes secrecy claims to shield the Executive Branch from judicial review over allegations of lawbreaking — is now hailed — by progressives — as a stalwart defender of “the rule of law.”

Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of a glass of warm piss.

I would suggest you look at the facts as laid out by Jane and then discuss from a place of intelligence rather then propaganda . I agree with the historic. Historically, it will be the beginning of the end for the democratic party.

31 million covered. don’t you mean, forced to buy from the private for profit insurance companies, not to provide care, but to take home their millions. When the united Health care CEO got 1.8 billion, how many people were denied coverage so he could have that money? How many died? Nothing in this bill changes that except for their profits and stock increasing. I am so happy for people like you. Wish I could live in such denial.

10-4 Newtie. I am so on my best behavior today.

Maybe NOW’s still waiting for a pony to arrive with their mail.

Or in the Great Pumpkin Patch waiting for the Easter Bunny.

He is coming, you know, and will have lots of treats for everyone.

`

I have been holding it in. I just don’t want to cut loose on that.

You’re a better person than I.

It is Democratic Party refusal to recognize this FACT that has doomed us to defeat after defeat after defeat. Be as “purist” as you wish, but prepare to live in the wilderness for generations!

“Purist”???

Where does that come from?

If I were a “purist” I would settle for nothing less than national health care or single payer. Yet neither I nor anyone here, have argued that we must be that “pure.”

Do you just throw words out there that sound good?

Ya got me!

Well, if the elephant stomps on you or shits on you first, you’re going to have a hard time finishing him for dinner.

I repeat what I said above: how are you going to get all these “fixes” through a congress now even more beholden to the even richer insurance companies and drug manufacturers?

No one here said, “do it all at once,” but we did say, “don’t make things worse. Don’t empower our enemies.”

That’s what this bill has done.

The “new direction” and “baseline” are that the health insurance companies are even more powerful. Can you tell me where you’re going to get the troops and power to fight them?

And BTW, how have those “fixes” of TARP, NAFTA, FISA, and Iraq worked out? Were those “baselines” improved upon?

Doesn’t seem to me that you’re a purist if you demand that people actually get something for their money.

Thank you.

I hope the others here who’ve been accusing you of fact-free commenting are still around to take note.

Here’s the problem: every Dem President gets his ass handed to them for one thing or another. But as long as they can muscle their ‘party’ and survive, they will, in spite of terrible legislative consequences.

So we say “Well, the next time a Dem President follows a Republican legislative agenda, we will kick HIS ass.”

But we never do. And by never ever speaking to a real issue, we cede that ground, every god-damned time. And that chart you just read – please explain the legislative consequences it describes, in terms of a real health care policy. Because I am missing the perception thing…

I thought it was pretty obvious whether he admitted it or not.

Really the only thing you can do is ask for proof, and let them fail.

When they continue to disturb, fact free, the trail proves itself, and the poster need not be responded to any further.

I heard we just need to tweak it.

I don’t get how Markos can go from “kill this monstrosity” to “once the foot is in the door, tweaks can always be made”? It’s a complete 180.

How does someone go from “kill this monstrosity” to “once the foot is in the door, tweaks can always be made”?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ctrl-V.

I try not throw words out there that just sound right. By “purist” I mean those who will not settle for anything less than “single payer” (my preference), or those who want access to abortion until delivery is at hand. Something is happening here & progressives will benefit. Our nation will benefit! The anger I see here will not serve the nation well. I think we will all be better off if we recognize that progress is incremental.

so is a tsunami.

“In a perfectdecent world, the pro-choice groups would have policy wonks at the ready to do this. Any other self-respecting lobbyist outfit would.”

Fixed it.

Eugene Robinson–”Democrats feel pride in doing this” and that the Dems have “done something now for the Middle Class.”

Wrong preposition, Eugene. It’s “to the Middle Class”, not “for” it.

Tonight, Healthcare will no longer be a privilege..it will be considered a RIGHT in the US. THAT’S Progress

At least, as long as you are a man.

Fool. This legislation is almost exactly what we have now, except this froces people who can’t afford it to buy it. If you’ve got enough cash right now, you can get all the coverage you want. And if you think this will keep costs down, you have been living in a bubble and don’t understand what’s happened here. Obama made the Federal government an arm of private for profit industy, without getting any of the profits, and he’s using the IRS as their collection agency. This is Fascism. Not to mention a back door tax on the poor.
I wonder how many more CEO’s in the private sector Obama has promised to steal from us so they can profit. He nailed us for generations by paying trillions to the criminal bankers, now we’re getting nailed to pay the very health insurance companies that gave him 20 million bucks for his campaign. Who’s next? Once he slashes SS, will he be happy when he see’s seniors on bread lines? Will there even be bread lines or will he just leave them to starve?
Gov’t subsidies will never be enough. People will still have to pay part of the premium and the rising co pays. People who are barely hanging on now, say the 10% unemployed that Obama seems to be perfectly comfortable with, will have to make all sorts of sacrifices to keep paying for this shit. We don’t even know the costs or the type of plans they will offer, do we?
They are going to jack up rates like the greedy scum they are, and middle class taxpayers are going to have to keep paying more every year until bankruptcy’s begin cascading throughout the country like dominos.

All the of language about ending refusal to cover pre existing conditions or dropping sick people has so many loopholes, I guarantee you the insurance industry has already figured out how they’re gonna get around it.
All with a wink from Obama and Congress.

So you go on ahead and lap up this massive con job.
And feel free to check back with us when you return to planet earth.

Bill Clinton was to the Left of Obama, not that that is saying alot, so whatever.

RICHARD NIXON was to the Left of Obama.

RahmWormtongue will whisper to his boss not to worry.

Not just the party – almost the entire progressive blogosphere has become overrun with cheerleading Obama loyalists determined to marginalize and demonize any and all critical voices

Then it is NOT the progressive blogosphere!

Well put!

inability to deny or cancel coverage

Except in the case of fraud, which his how they do it now.

Also, is there anything in there about the inability to deny TREATMENT? Remember last year when a 17-year-old girl died because Cigna denied her a liver transplant — because it was TOO EXPERIMENTAL?

Is there anything in this tablet from on high that prevents THAT?

even my doggettdaggett looks to be voting yes

[Yes, Battlestar Gallactica (original series) reference]

Well, we’ll see. Why is it OK for you to call me “fool”? Because I disagree with you? Ya know I’d really like to go the FU route, but I’ll refrain.

Hmmmmm… PUMAs were right all along.

That you did.

;)

You’re right. You’ve been very civil.
You’re entitled to say what you want without being on the recieving end of my wrath. Sorry.

It really sucks, because i was so looking forward to paying for strangers’ abortions.

Would that be my allegation that this is imperfect legislation, but superior to the status quo?

Mauimom –

Great posts.

The EO does far more than insure Hyde amendment is followed. It expressly reinforces W’s conscience rules – something Obama has been talking about consistently. Stupak, like Lieberman, merely offered political cover for something Obama wanted to do all along
http://edgeoforever.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/obamas-eo-reinforces-ws-conscience-rules/

Who would have thunk it?