Imagine what today would look like if progressives in the House had held their ground like the unions or the anti-abortion Democrats.

Tomorrow I will phone that terrific quote into the DC offices of Gwen Moore and Tammy Baldwin.

progressives arent willing to kill the bill.
their mantra is: you gotta start somewhere.
they live in the world that says, we can fix it, improve it later.

The bill killers dont inhabit that world. Also, they are bitter and nuts, and have the alternative of becoming goopers.

Welcome to the terrordome. You own this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wACMYAIXa1k

Having a Democratic President state it in the form of an Executive Order would be quite a coup for anti-abortion activists.

Would that be the “hope” or the “change” part?

The past 14 months has turned into a very sick joke. And this coming November? It ain’t gonna be pretty…

The bill killers dont inhabit that world.

But they won’t even credibly threaten to kill the bill. They cave before the game is over.

progressives arent willing to kill the bill.

False and lying so called Progressives are not willing to vote against InsurPharma under the false impression that that is what will allow the Dems to hold their majority and if that is not convoluted thinking I have no idea what is. And that bastard Oh Bummah! is doing what his masters want….pathetic Uncle ‘O’

Sorry to be a brat, but what happened to Glenn’s post? A bright light it was. Will it be re-posted later?

U.S. News and World Report: Obama is on record as opposing the Hyde Amendment. “Obama does not support the Hyde Amendment,” an aide in Obama’s presidential campaign wrote in 2007, responding to a questionnaire by an abortion rights group.

Way to go, Obama. One more betrayal in a long list of betrayals.

Sorry demi, that was my fault, we bumped it for Health Care and will bring it back later so everyone can enjoy it

Damn, he’s an asshole.

Any hint about when when the EO language will be released?

See ya in November when you’ll get a nice, big dose of the real world.

Enjoy!!

Thank you, Elliot. I just thought it was a wonderful reprieve. But, I understand. I’ll look for it later.

A worthless non binding EO…Either Stupak group was full of you know what all along or they got something else….Stu should ask himself if its so big then why is Diane and the other 41 signing off on it with not a sound when they were ready to walk the other night…

Worthless EO….How does it feel Stupak?…Really won this one huh…

waving at demi!!
yeah I like reading Glenn’s Sunday Posts!!

No it wont it means nothing and every one knows it

MSNBC reporting that Stupak will have a presser at some point today.

Hopefully, after that, we will never again hear of or from this miserable fuck – at least until he is giving a concession speech in November 2010.

Waving back atcha. I like to be reminded that not everyone is a *beep* and so I too enjoy Glenn’s posts very much.

I should have been more clear:
Progressives in Congress arent willing to kill the bill. Their mantra is: You gotta start somewhere….

If the Stupak Seven jump to “yes”, where does that leave the whip count?

Don’t let the crankies get you down. Don’t buy into it. :)

Jane, and all you genuine progressives out there. You are clearly right on pretty much every issue. But you are unfortunately, distressingly. in a tiny minority. Reading media and popular reaction to this healthcare monstrosity, and witnessing the overt racist thuggery of teabaggers, I conclude you are far, far too good for the United States.

I’m going to say it. The US is a lost cause. You can do nothing to change its rendezvous with the Stone Age. It is somehow hardwired. You are good people. Time for ‘sauve qui peut’. Channel your efforts to getting out of the country, and raise funds to help those who would like to but cannot due to financial or health restrictions, or both.

It is game over in the United States. And it is going to go down quicker than anyone can imagine possible at the moment.

And that would be why us progressive voters will make damn sure those faux progressives in Congress don’t stay in Congress.

Enjoy November.

Join us at 2pm today when debate of the bill will begin in the House.

I’m battered enough. I’ll be watching basketball.

But in the future they’ll just continue to lie about what the bill has done, is doing and will do and in contradiction they’ll also lie about the great “progress” they’re making in undoing the damage they inflicted on America and so they’ll ask for more money to fight the good fight.

Just as the Republican Party sold out their principles for a self-contradicting ideology that does not work so the myth that this actually was “Health Care Reform” will replace the principles of the Democratic Party.

And of course the fact remains that the corporations, and the oligarchs who control them, are the only winners.

Sad day.

It’s pretty much over, then.

Did I go too far?

what makes you think I dont want to vote them out too?
you seem to have dyslexia too, oldfatguy.

Obama can kiss the women’s vote goodbye (except for the fawning teenyboppers)

The final capitulation to save your presidency…huzzah, Mr. President…you win. At this point, between selling out to the corporations, the blue dogs and the anti-choice faction, this Prez and Party have nothing left for me.

Keep dreaming that this mess is going to fixed. Yellow-streak progressives will shut up and take what Rahm gives them.

As the end draws near, it seems clear that the corporate media tsking the President for allowing Congress to write the HCR bill is just wrong. It was written early last July at the White House by the administration, Pharma and AHIP. Drug re-importation and Government negotiated drug prices (cheaper by the dozen) was traded away for industry imposed and controlled price cuts and campaign contributions. The public option was sacrificed at the altar of AHIP for campaign cash and pinkie swears to cut costs and support the bill.

Congress was left to hang some curtains on this POS bill, and looking like sell-outs in the process.

Not my place to judge, but I think there’s enough ugly already and so many folks are already feeling down and bad.
I’m going to go play in my garden. Maybe I’ll be back for the vote, maybe not.

The difference now it that it’s all obvious, rather than dems hiding behind reps in power. Stick a fork in it.

Sad day indeed.

Is it okay if I’m a *little* cranky?

Read about the 1st Minnesota at the second day of Gettysburg. If they do not make that suicide charge, 5 Alabama regiments split the Union center and continue right on south to D.C. Then George McLellan beats Lincoln in 1864 and sues for peace with Jefferson Davis.

1st Minnesota was annihilated but they bought enough time to reinforce the gap in the federal lines. That forced Lee to order Pickett’s charge on the third day.

We dig deeper, we do not give up.

Ok, sorry, I’ll let it go the rest of today too.

Enjoy your garden.

Yes, sweetie. But, shake that off too. Maybe a nice little walkie? If I were there, I’d go with ya.

First Minnesota

outstanding
outstanding

heh – thanks. think I’ll go throw some iron around instead.

A lovely day to ya….

Yes, vote them out, it will be much more difficult for the punkass in the WH to put in place his corporate takeover of our lives with a rep congress. /s

Or keep them in, and watch them sell out their supposed principles to help said punkass do the same thing.

Do you get it yet?

The NYT whip count had 209 “yes,” so seven more would put the bill over the top, unless NYT was already counting some of those.

Yes, I understand. But there are many counter-analogies. The most brutal perhaps? The Spanish Civil War. The wrong side lost and there followed 40 years of fascist dictatorship. The Disney endings don’t always happen. And at the moment, you don’t have close to the numbers.

we should call them “regressives” now i guess

thanks for your gentle prodding. I so needed it.

now go boot your dog.

Would health care reform been possible if Pharma and AHIP had not been given everything they wanted at the starting line? It cannot be argued that drug re-importation, Government negotiated drug prices and a robust public option would have resulted in savings vastly superior than this current effort.

Was the decision made early on that the health industry is just too powerful? If so, how can we change this?

i’d rather freeze congress so it can’t do anything, than have it make the world worse

and that’s the big joke for corporations. they’re winning either way

All this Stupak face time and bullsh*t and we wind up with a reiteration of Hyde?
Preposterous waste of time.
Not that I’m complaining, except about the obvious household name status of one of the worst Dem rep in the history of the US

gotta vote in some progressives who will be more than voices when the heat gets turned on.

I think they’ll change it themselves. There’ll be too many people in jail unable to pay their fines for not being able to enrich The Corporation.
Either that or the premiums will go up so high that even the gov won’t be able to pay them.
The anti-life insurance crowd is their own worst enemy.

Why didn’t the progressives in the House hold out for a public option? Things could have been much different, but then nevermind I forgot the entire process was rigged from the start. That’s the maddening thing about all of this crap. And it doesn’t stop here. We’re still going to hear more bullsh*t about how great the bill is for years. http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/feature/2010/03/19/democrats/index.html

Our entire progressive delegation folded on their written promise to reject any bill that does not contain a public option. At what point in the future will anyone take their demands seriously? The progressive caucus has been deemed irrelevant in the arena of serious debate. And as an extension, so has the liberal blogosphere.

There were around 175,000 troops at Gettsburg. The second day turned on the two hundred and sixty-two who made that charge. 215 did not come back. This was no Disney finish. Valley Forge was not a Disney finish. It takes sh*t to make things grow and we are armpit deep in fertilizer.

I was here the day Bush pardoned Libby, when Lieberman beat Lamont in the General, when we were squashed in the 2008 FISA amendments.

I liked the care and respect you showed for Jane.

This community matters. It has already done a lot of great things and it can do more. I understand the sentiment you expressed, I wanted to respectfully offer a counterweight.

Waving gratefully to newtonusr.

Either that or the premiums will go up so high that even the gov won’t be able to pay them.

I am not an economist, but clearly the for profit health insurance model is unsustainable. This massive transfer of wealth into their coffers merely punts the ball and further damages our debt.

The FDL front-page whip count has now been updated:

Favor 213
Lean Favor 0
Lean Oppose 2
Unknown 9

Last Updated: 1:10pm ET, 3/21/09

I’ve been getting lots of fund-raising pleas from folks to which I donated through ActBlue. Of course they’re all crowing about how they’re “supporting the bill.” Here’s a sample of my response [this one to Tim Walz]

Well, that’s too bad, Tim.

I had really supported you, and had high hopes for you.

I first voted as a Democrat in 1968 [the voting age had not yet been lowered to 18]. I’ve voted Democratic in every election since then. But I am dismayed at the travesty that this “health care reform” bill — a bill written by the drug manufacturers and insurance companies — has become.

You can tell it was written in secret by these folks because of the important “changes” that aren’t there: the insurance companies anti-trust exemption continues; the ban on “re-importation” of drugs stays; the patent protection [that keeps generics off the market] is still around; the venal and immoral “mandate” exists unabated; there’s no public option to provide competition to insurance premiums, co-pays and deductibles; and, just today, it appears that Obama is willing to “trade” away women’s rights to control their bodies in exchange for votes from Stupak et al.

I wish that you, and your “health care issues” legislative assistant, had spent some time reading the analysis of the short-comings of this bill, and the phoniness of the promises, at places like the FireDogLake blog, instead of relying on OFA and the DNC to provide “information.”

See, for example, http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/03/19/fact-sheet-the-truth-about-the-health-care-bill/. ; This is from a group that has supported Obama, and supported reform of health care for the last year, and which looks at this issue objectively, not “politically” [e.g., "Obama needs to win or he won't be able to get other legislation passed."]

This bill is a disaster. The Republicans are going to bash Democrats with it for decades, and Democrats deserve it.

This is the worst “performance” by Democrats that I’ve seen in over 40 years. I donated to Obama, I campaigned for Obama, I bugged my friends with e-mails supporting Obama, I participated in phone banks and GOTV efforts. But this background does NOT blind me to the deficiencies and downright dishonesty of this President. I will NOT be supporting the Democratic Party — except, perhaps, good “down-ticket” candidates — with either my time or my money. And that now, apparently, includes you.

With regret, sadness, and not a small amount of anger,

Oh, my bad??

I read this:

progressives arent willing to kill the bill.
their mantra is: you gotta start somewhere.
they live in the world that says, we can fix it, improve it later.

The bill killers dont inhabit that world. Also, they are bitter and nuts, and have the alternative of becoming goopers.

as claiming to be pragmatic and in support of this bill, while insulting those of us that want to kill it (calling us nuts & potential goopers) and hold them accountable for passing the POS if they do pass it.

I guess I must be dyslexic because it still reads that way to me. Where did I go wrong?

Well, again I understand your point of view. My admiration for Jane Hamsher is total. But, she is quite literally the only ‘non-pod person’ left. It makes me nearly sick to look at HuffPo nowadays. The reactions to Jane’s last published piece there are mind-blowing. You appear to have an unwinnable fight against the people who are supposed to be on your side, before you can even start taking on the true danger.

The Teabagging protesters yesterday have an air of the Nazi intimidation in the Weimar republic about them. Fair enough, teabaggers are mostly prescription-drug addicted, Fox-addled 40 and 50-something, bigots and racists, whereas the proto-National Socialists cherished an ideal of ‘phyiscal and corporal perfection’ (except for the leaders – hypocrisy is an age-old theme). But still, the general malevolence and menace of teabaggery shouldn’t be underestimated. The real ‘other side’ have already crossed the rubicon. They are on or close to a putsch/war footing.

I only see this ending very, very badly. And I think the ending is a lot closer than nearly anyone imagines.

Amen, brother.

Our entire progressive delegation folded on their written promise to reject any bill that does not contain a public option. At what point in the future will anyone take their demands seriously?

It’s worse than that.

Everything would be different right now if they had withheld their committment to vote “yes.” In that case, the White House could not proceed. All they had to do was keep their mouths closed, thereby staying uncommitted.

Their problem is that don’t want to appear cold hearted. They have so fucking much empathy for the President that they don’t want to cause him anxiety. They can’t stand to see him squirm.

They could have simply said to themselves, “Self, I think this bill is a piece of shit but it’s probably better than nothing, so I can’t let you vote against it, but let’s not say so and see if we can get something better.” That’s all they would have had to do.

But, no, they had to show their hand. They couldn’t wait to please the President and alleviate his anxiety.

Yeah, look what Obama was willing to do to get just SEVEN Stupak votes.

Think of what “Progressives” could have gotten if they’d played hardball. Oh, but that wouldn’t be “nice” or “respectful,” so they wouldn’t do it.

Edit: I see wigwam has made this point above.

God dammit, I said I was going to watch basketball, but this Syracuse game is so bad, I’m back here. Gotta help my blood pressure by turning away from this [Obama, not FDL] shit.

Speak more clearly next time.

“The bill killers dont inhabit that world. Also, they are bitter and nuts, and have the alternative of becoming goopers.”

I may be bitter and nuts, but I am not the gop.

All that will happen is people will not buy or drop heath insurance, and the their taxes increase.

That helps to “balance the budget”.

No one cares about the people who cannot afford heath insurance, because the government wins.

And they get the excise tax too. Good job, Trumka you stupid fuck.

The Democratic wing of the Democratic party is now deemed irrelevant. It doesn’t get much worse than that. It feeds into the Billy Kristol meme that this is a center-right country, when 70 percent favored the public option.

No serious delegation for the people remain–they are irrelevant.

It is annoying and disheartening to have spent the last ten years organizing, donating and campaigning to retake America from the corporate thugs of Delay, McConnell, Hastert, Bush and Cheney et al, to see the only changes being the nameplates at the corporate altar.

Crushing.

The EO is simply a political, not legal document that will do nothing to change the language in the Senate bill. All Right-to-Life groups know this.

Liveblogging of debate and vote here.

Where will they go?

A very fine post, thank you. I particularly appreciated the reference to the Weimar Republic.

The Weimar parallel is particularly terrifying.

I wish I could go join the koolaid party at Huffpost, but…alas.

When did the progressive movement in this country get so lame? They’re standing on their chairs cheering this steaming heap.

It just shows how well we’ve been played by the corporate elite.

- Support the teabaggers
- Craft a corporate welfare program with your Dem puppets in the WH and Congress
- Let the teabaggers shriek
- Progressives, so intent on making teabagger heads explode, will support any POS bill, just to get a *win*
- Progressives, wetting themselves in fear of republicans, will keep electing Corpodems

And our march to serfdom continues.

I agree. Terrifying is also what our ancestors did to Native Americans (slaughtering the Buffalo) and to African slaves. Karma is a youknowwhat. I think most of human existence has been spent with one foot on a banana peel.

Atlanta Bureau Chief of the Wall Street Journal just won a Pulitzer for SLAVERY BY ANOTHER NAME: The Reenslavement of Black Americans from the Civil War to WWII.

You should trot on over there, then.

…the progressive movement in this country…

is right here, and I don’t see too much celebrating.

The intensity of opposition to the Senate bill by bloggers here on Firedoglake matches anything I’ve seen from the teabaggers…Obama and Pelosi have decided to declare war on a majority of the American public, and there are consequences to that decision.

People who don’t ordinarily agree on anything are united in opposition to this legislation. You reap what you sow…I hope the White House is prepared for a bumper crop, because there’s a shit-storm on the way.

I just came from Huffpo and they are partying in their pants—-sigh

Bingo!

*sigh*

Goto100 and OilFieldGuy have pretty much nailed it.

I remember, ten, fifteen, twenty years ago I used to be ridiculed when I said that every politician was corrupt. Now I usually just get a sad nod.

Jane Hamsher
Jon Walker
David Dayen

You have been tireless, truthful, accurate yeoman workers on this. Thanks so much for all you’ve done, and may do in the future on the issues still near and dear to that small band out there that really cares for this country and its future.

Same to all the commenters and visitors who have supported your efforts.

Love and thanks to all of you.

There were many good reasons to oppose this bill along the way. But where we are today on March 21, the battle lines are pretty clear. It really is a “you are for us or you are against us” proposition. Those opposing the bill from the left are inseparable from Republicans today.

The simple truth is that this bill puts health care into motion for the first time since Medicare. During that time, all developed nations except Turkey and Mexico have achieved essentially 100% health coverage one way or another. And they all do it with something like half the cost of our system.

We all know this bill does not solve all the problems. It still leaves the insurance companies in a position to gouge Americans. But for the first time in half a century, we are showing that we can enact legislation that changes the status quo and that legislation does include some very significant prohibitions against the worst abuses by the industry.

We know it doesn’t solve the financial problems, which means that this will come back up soon. The fact that the industry is driven to exploit Americans means that there will soon be a round 2. And the fact that Obama got this into motion means it will be easier to take the next steps.

Those continuing to wish for failure are with the tea baggers today.

This moment has been coming. It has not been in doubt for a number of days now. It is only about posturing now. In the end, there are very few Dem Congressmen for whom it makes any sense to vote “no”. Anybody planning to run in November on the basis that he or she voted “no” is already outflanked by the Republican opponent. The Republican will get 80% of those votes. The only sensible political strategy for most districts is to vote “yes” and then put the Republican on the defensive for voting to allow insurance companies to cherry pick and deny coverage.

Most of the Dems have figured that out by now. The vote will not be that close. People will be scrambling to the winning side before it is all said and done today.

Doublefelix…you’re both wrong and delusional.

Plum Line’s Greg Sargent says it has once again all come down to Bart Stupak…that is, it all comes down to appeasing Bart Stupak. How far will the White House go to do that?

How high is up…?

One should consider the wisdom of passing legislation opposed by the majority of it’s citizens. With no bipartisan support. Has anyone won anything? If you believe the nation was divided under Bush, it appears to be more divided than ever with independents running as fast as they can from dems.

Those continuing to wish for failure are with the tea baggers today.

Those who make such claims join with the Dubya mentality of either being at the table or on the menu.

Your claim is outrageous and offensive.

But for the first time in half a century, we are showing that we can enact legislation that changes the status quo and that legislation does include some very significant prohibitions against the worst abuses by the industry.

All purchased by giving the “abusers” everything they could have ever wanted.

A bully beats the shit out of you every day and takes your lunch money. To prevent this, you just give him a big fat check at the beginning of the school year. He’ll leave you alone if you make him pinkie swear.

Amazing.

“One should consider the wisdom of passing legislation opposed by the majority of it’s citizens.”

It is not opposed by the majority. If you ask people how they feel about “the socialistic government takeover that is commonly know as ‘Obamacare’”, yes you get a negative response.

But when people are polled on the specific elements of THIS BILL — not some imaginary bill that is swimming around in the heads of people at the polar extremes, the support is very strong — well over 50%. And that is what the Dems will run on in November. It may prove to be a loser for them because, frankly, Dems just aren’t very good at debating important issues. But the people who can’t make the case for this first step deserve to lose. It isn’t that complicated and when explained clearly, people are in favor of it.

A candy bar laced with strychnine probably tastes good.

And when you detail how none of the promises within those ‘specific elements’ are actually met, as in the chart Jane posted a couple of days ago, their eyes glaze over once again.

It really is a “you are for us or you are against us” proposition.

What utter, incomprehensible nonsense. That kind of thinking is a clear and present danger. NOT BUYING IT FOR A SECOND! :-)

Cool heads, people.

“when you detail how none of the promises within those ’specific elements’ are actually met, …”

Wrong !!!

None of them are FULLY met. But the American people want solutions. Your solution is to do nothing at all today. Let’s be clear what that means. That means a bloodbath in November. That means if the Dems hold onto either of the chambers, it will be by the slimmest of margins.

Tell me how that helps us get anywhere useful. Tell me how that gets us back in a position to do something even this small any time in the next 12 years.

It doesn’t, period.

This site seems to favor a scorched earth. No thank you.

@rubelfelix

I’ll stand with the teabaggers – against you. I have no interest in you, or your craven little playpen.

You own this, remember that.

Very generous of you to reinforce my point.

As for electoral consequences: recipients of so-called health care reform are made to pay the price because Democrats could not muster the nad to do this at all well?

I speak for none other than myself and I witnessed the entirety of the Bush authoritarian cultist lick spittle sycophants march in lock step defending each and every policy that led to where we are today.

I am not like that and am capable of nuance. I do not declare total and unquestionable fealty to Dear Leader and all policies issued therefrom and wholly reject the concept that I am like a Republican by not acting like one. The charge stands reason upon its head.

We are losing ground every day…

The Repubs never made a pretense of caring about us.

The Dems are willing to sell us out for some fantasy of a compassionate corporatism.

Many *progressives* are willing to let their principles be compromised into an unrecognizable state in order to keep a (D) in the WH or Congress.

We are at a critical point in our nation’s history. We either accept the corporate-government dominion or we stand up to it.

The time is not for half-measures, compromise with our oppressors, or “baby steps” into subjugation. It is time to dig in our heels and fight for unshakeable principles based in economic and social justice, personal freedom and environmental sanity.

If our leaders don’t understand this, then we owe them NO LOYALTY AND NO SUPPORT.

The Repubs never made a pretense of caring about us.

The Dems are willing to sell us out for some fantasy of a compassionate corporatism.

Many *progressives* are willing to let their principles be compromised into an unrecognizable state in order to keep a (D) in the WH or Congress.

OK, then where are you going to find the numbers you would need to pass a bill that fully pleases you? What is your plan, other than arguing it is best for this to all go up in smoke?

Let me understand which camp you are in.

a) You believe the bill should not pass because it doesn’t do enough today

b) You believe the bill should not pass because it actually takes significant steps backwards

If you are in a), I have to respectfully disagree that a scorched earth policy is the best course.

If you are in camp b) I’d like to see your evidence for that, not just emotional arguments. I’ll grant that compelling the purchase of insurance without offering a non-monopolistic alternative is a bad thing, but it is an interim step, which I would be happy to explain further. But on balance I do not think any reasonable person could argue the bill, taken as a whole, is a step backwards.

Those who support this bill and demand total fealty from all others to Dear Leader, must fall into one of the following camps.

a) The bill should pass because it is the most massive transfer of public funds to the private sector in the history of America, save for WWII.

b) The bill should pass because these funds go to companies whose role is not providing health care for Americans, but to make as much money as possible.

c) The bill should pass because Dear Leader guaranteed big Pharma and AHIP, behind closed doors and away from cameras that He was their bestest friend, and we should not embarrass Dear Leader.

Well, what is your answer? If we can’t even pass this much reform, how would we ever pass the kind of bill that would make you happy?

Do you just plan to stand on the sidelines the rest of your life criticizing?

What is your solution? What is your plan to get enacted into law the kind of system you want?

My objection to this bill is my same objection to the entire guiding *ethic* of the Democratic Party. That is, principles are simply bargaining chips in the big cynical game of realpolitik.

Let me ask you this. In the upcoming Immigration debate (an extreme example to make a point and I’m NOT suggesting this!!), what would you think of a proposal that would grant instant full citizenship to current undocumented aliens, but would give the government the right to shoot anyone entering the country illegally in the future? Horrifying? Immoral? To me, yes. To you, I would guess yes. Gosh…not to the Minutemen, maybe not to Tom Tancredo, maybe not to many Republicans…hell, maybe not to some Democrats. But it’s all a tradeoff, right? Baby steps? Think of all the good the bill would do, right? And how could you condemn all the current undocumented aliens to further fear and exploitation and allow further illegal immigration? Maybe if our legislators told us that it was the only bill they could pass and promised to fix the bill in the future so we’d only shoot, say, half the illegal entrants, or only break their legs, that would make it OK.

The question is: WHAT IS ABSOLUTE? WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE?

My point is, when you start trading off the moral bases of civilized society for political or economic expediency, you begin to go down a steep and slippery slope. Our culture has succeeded in commodifying and debasing just about every value that anyone holds dear. DOES IT EVER STOP ITSELF? If not, WHO stops it?

First Doublehelix,Many here are not tribalists locked into some primitive cacoon of camp choice .

Hey double.many of us are not party tribalists locked into some primitive notion of camp choice.We adhere to our principles pursuant to believing only a progressive vision can save America.Anyone who still believes in change from within the Dem party is still buying greasy kid stuff.Would you tell neocons to get over Strauss ? As to health care ,this ins. giveaway passing as reform is worse than nothing because it shall delay real reform for years until the people realize they were victims of a mob-style shakedown under which we either paid the syndicated price extortion of health-care monopolism to advance a protection racket or face the consequences of an individual mandate.I I’ve found My views rarely collide with Buchanan and Paul.Why should I care ?