The White House is floating the idea to journalists that they will issue an executive order to “clarify” the government’s position on the use of federal funds and abortion.
The White House secured Planned Parenthood’s and NARAL’s support for whatever hideous abortion language they wanted to include in the bill early in the game. NARAL’s Nancy Keenan is the anointed member of the choice community who gets to talk on their behalf to Valerie Jarrett at the White House. And Planned Parenthood was bought off with the money for Bernie Sanders’ clinics, which is funded to the tune of $11 billion.
The entire controversy arose because rather than work within existing federal programs, the White House wanted to follow the plan written by the insurance lobby in 2008 and create “exchanges” that would funnel money to private health insurance companies. Existing federal programs were already covered under Hyde — this new beast included both public and private entities, and anti-abortion groups wanted the issue addressed. As recently as three weeks ago the White House was contemplating an alternative bill that didn’t have this problem, but they’ve decided to double down on screwing abortion funding instead.
Women’s reproductive rights are being sacrificed for corporate profits. There’s no other way to say it.
Americans United for Life began a campaign against the money going to Bernie Sanders’ clinics when it was first announced. As Ann Neumann wrote on AlterNet:
AUL’s opposition to this sensical amendment is that some of those community centers could be Planned Parenthood Centers, which provide, yes, abortion services, but also other women’s reproductive services like birth control, pap smears, exams, treatment for STDs, etc. Laws already exist that prevent Planned Parenthood from using federal funds for abortion services. In other words, AUL is protesting more federal money from being used at PP Centers because in those same centers women are paying for their own abortions. Forget the other needs of women that have been marginalized by our current laws and health care system. The objective is to starve PP out of helping women at all, simply because they perform a legal service (abortion) in their clinics that AUL and others have religious objections to.
My problem with the Planned Parenthood leadership is that they make decisions all the time that feather their own political power in DC, but don’t support the people who really are putting their lives on the line in the clinics. You could make the argument that when they decided to agree to the Stupak/Nelson language that would seriously impact the ability of poor women to have abortions in exchange for a good chunk of that $11 billion, they were appropriately looking out for the financial well-being of those clinics — and the women who are treated there. I don’t buy it, but it’s a legitimate argument, as opposed to most of the incoherent claims being peddled by the apologist punditocracy these days.
But there isn’t any language that will make the Stupak block happy that will not cut off funding for Planned Parenthood clinics completely. And if Planned Parenthood is staying silent throughout this, they know that. But they won’t even say they’re scoring the bill.
Diana DeGette has apparently not signed off on the deal. But then again, she won’t release the names of the 41 members of Congress who signed a letter saying they’d vote against any health care bill that restricts a woman’s right to choose, so I don’t imagine she’ll put up much of a fight here either.
The White House has been working furiously to crush any pro-choice opposition to the bill’s passage. They’ve spared no efforts to make sure Democrats pass the worst blow to abortion rights in 35 years, and those who would have been screaming bloody murder if George Bush tried to do the same thing are gripped by a peculiar silence.
Update: DeGette signs off on the “Executive Order.”






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Breaking: Deem and pass is dead.
“The White House has been working furiously to crush any pro-choice opposition to the bill’s passage.”
is that what you meant: crush pro-choice oppo?
Jane, if not for FDL, the news about the amendment last night would never have been leaked. Thank you.
My primary care is from a Planned Parenthood clinic. More funds means better hours, more staff.
This isn’t just about political power of Planned Parenthood. It’s about access to care for people like me.
So what will they do now?
We need Marcy!
Is it even constitutional for a president to undo decades of settled law with an EO?
They’re telling them to vote for the bill
A couple of questions. Is Nancy Keenan elected to her position at NARAL? Further, we have always had abortion on demand. The question is legal or illegal. When it is illegal it has no effect on the number of abortions but it increases the number of botched abortions leading to great pain and sometimes death to the woman. In other words, more women die when abortions are illegal and it does not decrease the number of abortions. What is pro-life about that? It seems more about control to me. Add to that abortion services are unavailable in 87% of the counties in America, a service that is legal, and it provides additional barriers for women with limited means for this service. Good job Nancy.
I guess they will have to pass the Senate bill.
How can this be happening at FDL?
you may agree or disagree with my perception and opinion, but removing the following statement I made is making my point better than I could ever make.
This observation was ‘moded’ out of existence by totalitarian tendencies:
“you are witnessing a rigid mob mentality at FDL, not unlike Dkos in that respect”
anyone who agrees with censorship of speech, say aye.
Last night CLARISSA MARTINEZ DE CASTRO stated “But there was—but instead of standing strong on principles of healthcare reform, what we saw was that instead of undoing that wrong that prevents legal immigrants who are contributing to our society from that being treated differently, that that stayed in there. So there was an opportunity to do that, to remove structural barriers that had been artificially created, and instead of that, they stayed in place, and we added some others.”
Immigration reform has been ‘promised’ but how will such address the healthinsurance needs of those people? I mean,really, does anyone think that there will be any ‘healthcare’ in an immigration reform bill?
It’ll be a busy ‘news’ day tomorrow what with the march on DC and the vote on HCR.
Hell, why doesn’t God Almighty just sign an executive order for people to go wiki the Hyde amendment which is funded through HHS appropriations not a law. He can go even further and force them to read through the footnotes.
Thanks for staying on the Community Health Clients, their relationship to the Sanders and Planned Parenthood, Jane. The devil in the details should have come out a long time ago by the “left” so we could have pushed Bernie on this issue.
To these thugs its just another group to throw under the bus and they fig. nobody will bother to go back and count all the bodies. The WH is gambling everything here on this awful bill and the price its going to pay will be horrific. Obama has ditched big chunks of his base for the dubious honor of saying he was able to do what nobody since LBJ was able to do and pass a significant health care reform. One problem it doesn’t come close to passing the smell test to be called even called reform. maybe, reorganization would be more suitable. Personally, I ‘d call it a regressive deform if anything, especially if you add this latest outrage. if they set out to piss off everyone when they decided to do this that is one thing they’ve managed.
WTF are you talking about?
It was wrong for Bush to use signing statements but we sort of expected it of those who have so little respect for democracy. This is just one more proof that Obama is at best Bush-lite.
Can this whole mess get any worse or have we truly hit rock bottom?
Yes and no are the answers mostly to be correct.
Obama is not smarter than Bush, he is smoother.
Obviously it is not happening, because you are still allowed to post.
You probably strayed too close to saying something that has already been said and deleted. If they let you post it, they would have twenty emails complaining. Moderating is a thankless job.
You are on the web and nothing here is protected speech. These are really tough days for this community. Your patience, respect, and cooperation are appreciated. No I am not management, nor a mod, but I kick in $20 a month. I like the way they run things.
I think we’re going to see it get even worse now that the Supreme Court has allowed big business to openly buy Congress.
“you are witnessing a rigid mob mentality at FDL, not unlike Dkos in that respect”
my chaperone decided that the above comment needed to be erased. That’s what we are fighting against – I erroneously thought.
Oh yeah, among other things, he could bomb Iran.
obviously there are more than one moderator.
I’m being randomly censored. – is this a policy at FDL?
that statement was erased on another thread I have the screenshots, if you doubt me.
Why add the unnecessary qualifier “to Planned Parenthood…”?
Way to keep after them, Jane.
I particularly like the administrations claim that the eeevil insurance companies are fighting this “reform” tooth and nail, or is it hammer and tong? Meanwhile, AHIP stocks have soared nearly 30% since this process started.
AHIP senior executive quote:
That is what scares me the most. He could through hubris cause quite the conflagration.
good point
Sometimes I actually wonder if they are doing this to cause an uprising.
Any White House statement that goes beyond: “The Hyde amendment applies”, is obviously too much. I look for something much more onerous though I hate to say.
I have no clue. My suggestion is that you take it to a previous thread, a dead one. Or ask the mods to leave you a message about what you did wrong at the bottom of this thread, after it is dead. Maybe they will, maybe not.
This is the front page thread at FDL. People are not here to read about your concerns about being censored.
If the EO is saying “the Hyde Amendment applies to HCR bill” that isn’t changing settled law it’s affirming it. Or do we have the text of the EO in front of us showing Roe v. Wade is no longer operative?
States that currently allow Medicaid to pay for abortion services will still be able to use state funds. Non federally subsidized insurance will still be able to offer abortion service coverage. Given the difference in cost between pre-natal/obstetric care and abortion it should be pretty inexpensive – pre-natal/obstetric costs run many thousands of dollars, first trimester abortions are under $1000.
Maybe we should take Kucinich’s refund of FDL Blue America donations and put it towards funding abortions for poor women that can’t afford them… no can’t do that because PP would end up with the money in most cases as they’re the most likely provider.
Bush-lite? Are you nuts? Obama is Bush on steroids. Everything bad that Bush did, and then more that Bush either couldn’t do or didn’t even try.
Obama lost me a long time ago. This bill’s passage, topped by the insult of an executive order, means he’s never getting me back. And all the hoopla following passage, the huge headlines and the inevitable elitist and pragmatic beltway justifications, will only deepen my resentment. I hope there is a renewed grassroots women’s movement in this country that sweeps a lot of so-called “Democrats” out of office this November.
This stopped being about policy a long time ago. Now it’s just a cash cow for politicians and about bragging rights for the Ds and the Rs. They all make me ill.
I’m sorry to bring this to this thread, but FDL is eating their own. I am left of where most of FDL’ers are. FDL is left of Kos….. The left leaning humanist ideals appear to be a scham on this site.
@ 112 n”Moderator- you are acting like a total hack. There is no objectivity to your action, and the comments do not disappear as screenshots do exist. You are not doing any service to either FDL or the spirit of democracy, fair and open exchange of ideas, etc!”
http://firedoglake.com/2010/03/20/strapped-to-the-mast-of-healthcare-reform-trying-to-enjoy-the-view/#comments
Oh Please. Surely we are not back to the 11th dimensional chess on Uranus to defend his actions.
Obama wants to throw women under the bus. Next he’ll be throwing the Latinos followed by the unions. Obama is a disaster.
Confirmed: Steny Hoyer announced deem and pass will not be used. Pass reconciliation prior to passing the Senate version. So they can claim they passed the fix prior to passing the Senate bill.
Urgh.
Another example
Law limiting release of gun-trace data blasted by chief, D.A.
Obama is with the NRA on Tiahrt. The Chief of Police, who is standing against Obama and the NRA was selected by the wingnuts at the Bradley Foundation who found him when he was working for Mitt (could bore paint off a wall) Romney in MA.
and the economy is a time bomb.
thank’s for the tepid response.
If you kick in more cash, FDL can afford to hire smarter modes. There is no free lunch.
Not concerned about Censorship because one gets censored?????
you are out to fucking lunch, dood. It always starts with one!
I learned my lesson. The mods always win.
think about what you are saying, deeply analyze your libertarian attitude. You are a disgrace!
and proud of it.
it is not a matter of smarter mods, smart enough, – it’s about group think and a small section of the original community doing the top down thing, while fighting the top down thing, there’s a name for it.
I don’t know what was moderated. I enjoy your comments – although sometimes they go a bit far. But this isn’t your personal soapbox so why should you complain.
You can always start your own blog if you’re not happy with how FDL mods work
Completely agree.
Hugh was talking about the sub prime collapse years before I had heard anything about it. He is predicting a depression in 2011.
I have read and re-read the title of this thread and don’t see where it says “fuckno complains about the moderators: Discuss”. Just sayin’
I’m sure you are. Pay to play, Citizens United, etc.
you fit right in.
Or perhaps less filling.
Who will be replacing the DINOs? Stupak has a challenger… she could easily be in the progressive “no vote for a bill without a public option” block. And do what Kucinich says he will do and vote yes.
There was a pretty good diary at openleft about how HCR has played out. We had a few wins, some losses as well.
We didn’t get everything we want, money and lobbies still have power over Congress.
These people are stupid, very, very gullible and naive…….What dupes they are….But this is what makes Obama so dangerous—he is able to dupe these easily led sheep……and Obama knows this but the dupes like Planned Parenthood and NARAL do not…..Obama is undermining the women’s movement in ways that the likes of Pat Robertson dream of doing……
It’s up to like minded people and especially women to stand against these faux “feminists.”
the rot always starts somewhere small. Not my personal soapbox for sure. But without a cohesive idea of what we stand for – we stand no chance.
It takes just one bad apple…. it is in your interest, your obligation to stand up to shit, wherever you encounter it.
yo [Edited by Moderator. No need to call names] – when you’re through stamping your tiny feet and the continued hijacking of this thread, do let us know, k?
lol!
you guys don’t get it.
This is NOT about fuckno!!
use your brains!
We don’t know much about Stupak’s challenger though I believe that if someone was challenging Kucinich, not only would we know all about him or her but Kos would have a donation box up.
I see this Deem and Resolution being dropped as big. I think this gives them the cover on the Senate bill to fail. They can blame the Senate. They don’t have the votes. They will try to isolate Stupak and bloc on the second vote which is the Senate Bill and try to bear down on them. I predict it won’t work.
Insurance-rate regulation dropped from latest health bill
By Steven Thomma | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2010
“….A Democratic plan for new federal power over health insurance rates was dropped Thursday from the final health care bill, squeezed out by the way the Democrats are pushing the bill through Congress….Rolled out with fanfare just weeks ago, the Democratic plan was a response to double-digit rate increases proposed by health insurance companies in California and elsewhere….It was first proposed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., then picked up by President Barack Obama….It would have given the federal government the power to reject proposed rate increases. It also would have allowed the secretary of health and human services to order insurance companies to give back part of premiums if the government decided that the companies spent too much of their incomes on salaries or advertising….Obama had hoped to put the proposal into the health care measure before the House of Representatives that’s designed to change the Senate-passed legislation to make it more amenable to House Democrats…..However, the Democratic plan to send the fix-up bill first to the House and then to the Senate depends on using “reconciliation” rules to get it past a Republican filibuster in the Senate….A White House aide said Thursday that the Senate parliamentarian had ruled that the new insurance-rate regulation proposal didn’t qualify to be included in that bill under rules for reconciliation…..”
Read the entire article @:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/18/90672/insurance-rate-regulation-dropped.html
Wiping coffee off monitor.
fuckno man, Mods are mods, they do the best they can.
You badger people, you badmouth people, you accuse us of being lazy, of not being active enough, you imply that you are the only important opinion here, even your pseudonym implies beliigerence and now you want us to rush to your defense because you think you were unfairly moderated? “Not about fuckno”, you say? Yet here you have managed to hijack the thread to make it exactly about fuckno.
Just go write a piece at the Seminal about it, Fuckno. Link to the snap shot you say you have and let folks discuss it on a thread that would be on topic.
Yeah, I missed that too.
That’s some update. So it is a done deal? A god damned Democratic President is going to issue an anti-choice executive order to health reform legislation with the consent of so-called pro-choice women in Congress. Wow.
Is it correct that they can vote on the rec bill first? My understanding was that they had to pass the senate bill first if they use two bills. That sounds like a good way to pass ONLY the senate bill to me.
no, not in this case transparait.
This is a clamp down on dissent.
Kommissars are not Kommisars, – been there, done that – they are enforcers of illegitimate status quo.
My mod is not objective, he should be censured.
Are you feeling triangulated against yet? I know I am.
You are not being objective.
I am deeply concerned about where the country is moving, I’ve lived in a police state. I do not condescend, I implore and attempt to furnish links to articles and site that may bear more authority on your views.
You have always come to read my posts with an incorrect bias.
Wow. You have your very own private mod huh? Aren’t you the special one.
Here’s a HuffPo piece on Stupak’s primary challenger.
I would add that from time to time the mods here have been a bit too lenient, from my perspective, when comes to a few folks who have felt the need to attack a commenter with ambiguously determined personal attacks. In fact that might even be true for some of my own comments. I’m not suggesting that fuckno did that this time because there is no information to go on. On the other hand the mods have to be in place of the irrational haters of all things liberal will melt these discussions to the ground. There is a fine line but on the wide landscape of the innertubes moderating is required.
Doesn’t this make Obama the worst Democrat ever to enter the White House? How can anyone who voted for him stand for this? How can Democrats elected to office be ok with this?
Isn’t it piling bad on top of bad and hoping something good will come of it?
Have they lost their minds?
with nothing but snideness, you’ll likely to wake up to a world you may just richly deserve.
The mob mentality and herding instincts of community blogs.
“Pro-Choice Democrats” and Democratic Party “Feminists” no longer exist…..
Obama’s Hero Ronald Reagan is smiling today!!!!!!
There is nothing left to like about these scumbag Democrats….Even the phony-ass “Socialist” Bernie Sanders is another forked tongue talker…..
Burlington Free Press
POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT
Sanders Drops Push for Public Option
Vermont senator doesn’t want to undermine chances for overall passage
Free Press Staff Report • Friday, March 19, 2010
“…Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., will postpone a push for a public option in the health care overhaul bill, acknowledging such a fight “could undermine the entire process.”….The National Journal reported on its Web site Thursday that Sanders and Sen. Jeff Merkley, D-Ore., would shelve an amendment to the bill during the reconciliation process in exchange for assurances the proposal would be resurrected later….”
Read the article @:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20100319/NEWS03/100319005/Sanders-drops-push-for-public-option
The Democrats are caving and falling like the worthless scumbags they are to the empty promises of Obama! There is literally nothing to like about these Democrats. NOTHING at all. The Democrats have NO PRINCIPLES and whatever “reason” or “excuse” they give is hollow and superficial.
These Democrats have severe personality disorders and many are nothing but sociopaths and psychopaths just like the Wall Street crooks they bail out and transfer tax payer money to.
What do we know?
Stupak keeps saying he wants no rollback of Hyde amendment prohibition of federal funds paying for abortion.
Obama is rumored to be open to an EO to satisfy Stupak.
Somehow this is amplified into Obama is against reproductive freedom. It seems to me that it is much more likely that any EO will simply affirm that no federal funds can be used to subsidize coverage for abortion services.
Margaret owned you at 65, after you ignored her more sublime 51.
Thanks for providing a little comedy.
You know very well that’s not true of FDL or you wouldn’t be here. Chill.
I think that was determined when he maintained TBTF, increased our military presence in the middle-east and pushed the patriot act as a way to defend the right of a President to arbitrarily incarcerate or kill American citizens. The trick is to pick the second worst Democrat – Wilson?
I think we need a fundamental shift in strategy here. Rather than running from issue to issue, fight to fight, trying to put out brush fires and treat symptoms, we need to cure the disease: money. It’s become apparent through this debate that not only is the government infected to the core with this sickness, a good number of political groups, either by choice or chance are also afflicted with it. Advocacy itself has become a cottage industry. Labor and choice, just to name two, have rolled on this. Until effective campaign finance reform becomes a reality, things are not going to change no matter how passionately we want it or how hard we work. So, in other words, we’re screwed.
That’s not a bad idea. The money would not go to national, but to local planned parenthood groups, the people that actually provide the service. We have a fund to help pay for abortions for those who can’t pay up front here in Nashville, and it is an important thing to do.
that’s how it starts, first as comedy , and we also know where that leads…
Wasn’t this dealt with the other day? Meaning that if you personally attack another commenter or poster with foul language it will get deleted. (thats what I see at @112 of the link you provided).
You can call that ‘censorship’ if you choose, but I see it as more ‘keeping the eye on the ball’; I don’t need my time being taken up with flame wars.
Among many other reasons why I come to Firedoglake is that I know I can object and disagree in the strongest terms with what others are saying and not feel like I’m going to get ostracized for doing it.
There is this nifty little tool some might be interested in
The Democrats no longer believe in a woman’s right to choose!!!!
The Democrats are empty on a woman’s right to choose….and her privacy rights…..
Planned Parenthood and NARAL are USELESS ORGANIZATIONS and obviously only concerned with their own “power” whatever that is and to maintain access with the rich and powerful.
It will be a joke from here on out to have a “woman’s choice” as part of the Democratic Party’s platfotm……
These groups like Planned Parenthood and NARAL have not only been punked by the MEN Running the show but the late President Ronald Reagan and the late Jerry Falwell are smiling today…..Obama is doing what the likes of Falwell and Reagan could only dream of doing here……
Planned Parenthood and NARAL are now totally useless organizations as well.
that may be your experience from your perch, Twain. I speak my mind wherever I see hypocrisy. I’ll defend libertarians, tea-baggers, anyone when their ideas align with all that you yourself embrace.
I’m being moded for making this one statement:
“go, get your own fucking pictures”
Have never seen that before. How interesting.
You never read fucking or fuck in any of Jane’s posts?
-this is exactly the deficit of democracy I am attempting to address!!
Any “pro-choice woman” who still stands alongside these scumbag Democrats after this is either, or:
1. ignorant
2. masochist
3. glutton for punishment
4. no self-respect
5. likes the powerful to dictate their life
6. really respects patriarchy more than they are willing to admit (Men still dictating “choice” issues and groups like NARAL and Planned Parenthood have become willing accomplices in this endeavor)
7. needs a male dominated culture to tell them what to do
8. has left the fight against the paternalism of the dominant patriarchial system
9. is power-hungry enough themselves as women not to stand up and fight against those out to destroy them and other women.
Works like a charm too, I gotta tell ya!
10. Needs to give a concession speech.
“Advocacy itself has become a cottage industry.”
I agree. I’ve been thinking about this subject recently and I feel that a lot of advocacy today is done on auto-pilot (unlike Firedoglake, which is very viscerally connected to whatever is going on and responds with admirable fervor to the issues I care about!).
which if addressed to some kossak would have had many here go ; yeah, LOL, etc.
instead it was a response to one of the original FDLrs. If you approve of class distinctions, privilege of inheritance, etc. then understand that I vehemently oppose such a world view.
I have one question:
What do the Democrats stand for any longer?
Certainly not what they claim or what is said to be the party’s platform…..
Did anyone see this at Huff Post?
2:10 PM ET — Progressives were ready with public option resolution.
“If Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) had agreed to a deal with pro-life Democrat Bart Stupak of Michigan that would have given him a separate floor vote, progressives were ready with their own response: a demand for a floor vote on the public option.”
So they didn’t have the guts to propose this without an abortion related trade? Shame on all of them!
Sorry but Democracy and profanity are not interchangeable terms. In fact without relatively polite interactions anger and reattribution will replace conversation. You may not like or care, but my position is that mods need to make sure that rudeness is kept to minimum so that people can stick to ideas and issues.
Had they modded an issue or position that you had taken you would have reason to be unhappy, as would we all.
The Human Rights Campaign is also part of the larger cottage industry of advocacy groups as well…..
Kabuki, for you and me.
Yes, helping fund reproductive care (including abortions) is worthwhile. Somehow I think Dennis would be pretty pleased to see his former donations used for such a purpose.
PP does a lot of very good work in community clinics across the US – I wouldn’t be able to renew prescriptions or have blood chemistry tests without them and I’m a middle aged man. Expanding funding for those clinics isn’t about National PP getting a feather in their cap, it’s about helping people that otherwise don’t have access to health care.
will you castigate Jane?
Is form equal to content?
i agree to a point about maintaining some civility, but I also maintain that without naming names, in this democratic establishment, some members deserve more democracy then others, when the mod decides.
but, who mods the mod?
Okay….I am supposed to believe the claptrap and bullcrapola about a “public option” when it’s been completely DEAD since the whole charade started…..
The Huff Post is high on crack with this one….The Public Option was dead when the Obama White House was writing the bill with Big Pharma and the Insurance Industry.
The rest is nothing but EMPTY WORDS and FALSE PROMISES…..
The only reason any talk about the “public option” even exists is to calm public outrage….
It is like when the Democrats feigned to be against Bush’s war in Iraq and things like FISA—-the goals there was not to end war or go defeat FISA but to win Votes and CALM PUBLIC OUTRAGE!!!!!
dday is liveblogging the Presidents speech
I am watching the NCAA Hoop Tourney….Watching the lies of Obama is not good for my blood pressure…and his lies and deceit only reinforce negative energy.
I cannot watch the LIAR Obama any more give deceitful and dishonest speeches…..
He is some speaker alright—he surely dupes the ignorant out there….I cannot wait to vote against Obama in 2012 and all other gutless Democrats!
The Democrats are scum and worthless!!!!!!! Obama is also scum!
jakegittes is the poster at 112; and there are plenty of f words after that.
Don’t you see that “get your own fucking pictures” IS a commentary to another poster?
“if you personally attack another commenter or poster with foul language it will get deleted.” ; been the rule at FDL since the beginning.
Am I missing something, or shouldn’t there be pro-choice Democrats in the House who will now flip their votes to NO now that they know that passing this bill will mean Obama’s executive order will destroy women’s rights?
Can we focus on the supposed pro-choice Democrats in the House and call on them to stand up for what they say they believe in?
The issue here is NOT Jane Hamsher….
The issue at hand here are the gutless and useless scumbag Democrats and the Scumbag-in-Chief, President Barack Hussein Obama and all his scumbag followers who have sold their souls to empty words of prez….
The Democrats have abdicated their role as speaking for the people and as their jobs to represent the people first and not the president…..
The President is not King….The Executive Branch is only one-third of the entire government. The Democrats in Congress who do not stand on principle are nothing but whores and literally bending over to take a poke in their rears by Obama……These Democrats stand for nothing and voting for an atrocity here.
Again, the issue at hand here is with the gutless Democrats and the deceit of Obama!!!!
Jane, again, is NOT the ISSUE Here other than her ability to show courage and consistency in pointing out the lies and spineless political “courage”–lacking with all these Democrats!
Name one Democrat worth voting for after this?
I am curious who that would be at this time…..
yeah!
But where is the Peace movement, where are the left leaning organizations, the leftist activists?
Where are the women’s organized marches, LGBT, the Unions ?
Why do you believe the EO will destroy women’s rights?
There has been zero evidence that it would do anything more than affirm the Hyde Amendment.
I don’t mind having that deleted. BTW quite a few of the commenters agreed that I had been accosted in bad faith.
I don’t know what you are talking about @ 112…
This comment got deleted: ““you are witnessing a rigid mob mentality at FDL, not unlike Dkos in that respect” – please explain why?
Forget about all else for the moment and tell me what is there about this statement that is cause for deletion?
“you are witnessing a rigid mob mentality at FDL, not unlike Dkos in that respect”
How is this different from Hyde? If all the other abortion crap came out and was replaced with this, would it not be a vast improvement – that is, to the bill, not to the policy? By ‘all’ I mean down to the bit where there can be no actuarial discount to policies that include coverage, what a crock of giveaway that is.
Clinics that get federal money already use other dollars to support any uncovered services, why would it be a bad thing to have the exchange-offered policies treat it the same way?
Even if Pelosi has the votes to pass this, the Republicans do get a vote on their motion to recommit first. Actually they’ll get two bites at the apple if the reconciliation bill and Senate bill are going to be voted on separately.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the GOP motion recommit adds the Stupak Amendment (the Republicans don’t care if this trips over the Byrd Rule in the Senate). For progressives, what would be the optimal GOP substitute bil (that the GOP might be willing to offer?) In exchange for killing the Senate bill (with its mandates, new taxes and Medicare cuts) would they be willing to offer a Motion to recommit for the Plan B, Grayson’s Medicare buy in and (the now redundant) Stupak Amendment? Again, any Byrd Rule (or paygo budget rules) it trips over, ehh, that’s Harry Reid’s problem. They might balk at the Grayson bill, but even the Plan B alone is better than either the status quo or the Senate bill.
The beauty of that from the Republican’s standpoint is, they can give a gut punch to the White House without having to vote Aye on it– if they offer the motion, every GOP member can vote Present, the vote would come down to whatever the majority of the House caucus wants. However Democrats split, I imagine the needed GOP votes would suddenly appear to pass to Motion just to complicate the President’s life. :o)
It’s willfully inaccurate and intentionally inflammatory.
The mod used good judgement.
I do and their decision will stand, regardless of how much you might like to question why.
I do not think the 69 million people who voted for hope and change were wrong. Some of those 69 million also supported reproductive rights of women. The D leadership which has been corrupted, certainly is worthless. The President seems to want to play Chicago hardball, as he steals the reproductive rights of women. We can play rough and tumble too.
Hmmmm….interesting…..In response to your response, of the one who said there is, some, “rigid mob mentality at FDL.”
I am not programmed by Jane Hamsher or by others at FDL….I know nobody here at FDL personally…..I just happen to agree with Jane Hamsher and others here……
Please do not confuse what you call a “rigid mob mentality” here at FDL with actually daring to take and maintain persistent political principles unlike the scumbags in the Democratic Party and the DINO President Obama…..
Mr. Obama’s Hero may I say it again is Ronald Reagan…..Reagan was also anti-choice regarding abortion. Bush was very much against choice as well…..
So, when a president that has a “D” after their name says let’s scrap abortion, it’s okay?
If Bush was doing this, NARAL and Planned Parenthood would have been outraged and saying too much religion is involved….Obama did hang out with anti-gay preachers–Rev Donnie McClurkin on the campaign trail and the Mary, Mary Sisters.
then you can drop the pretense that this site is any better than DKos, or that you care for something like accountability. If you allow for unaccountable Moderators, you are in my book, supporting all acts of secrecy perpetrated by the Gov. all in good cause, of course.
Naive, amazing.
“I do not think the 69 million people who voted for hope and change were wrong.”
Perhaps not….
They certainly were easily duped and too, too many of them continue to be dupes, even more so.
Name one Democrat worth voting for after this?
I am curious who that would be at this time…..
I just told you that I am accountable for that mod action but no amount of complaining about it is going to change what happened.
You have presented ZERO evidence that Obama will scrap abortion.
Lots of innuendo and smearing though.
Haven’t we already seen enough of this during the Idiot-King’s reign?
Then you don’t know your history, Frank.
You don’t know that it’s possible to rev up propaganda to the point that an overwhelmingly peaceful population can within six month’s be turned into rabid, war thirsty masses seeking to drink german blood.
Confusion works in the favor of the Obama White House….
The very, very dumb members of Congress, well, they are too confused to grasp this…..Contrary to popular notions, this bill is NOT so “complicated.”
It was cooked a long time ago by Big Insurance and Big Pharma and its blueprint came from Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel’s office who worked with Brother Rahm in the office of the Precious President Barack Hussein Obama…..
I guess you have been sleeping lots lately……and that Kool-Aid next to your bed on your night stand must taste very good. How many cases does Rahm Emanuel send you that your eyes are that blurry?
Where do you you get off insulting people?
You need professional help, with boundaries.
Please apologize to RBG and send FDL a check for $100 for all the time you have wasted.
Since this thread has turned into a thread about Mods, lurking and otherwise, Mods, you are the best.
Really? Bush got elected
twiceonce couldn’t all those people who voted for him be wrong?Sure, because governments time after time employ False Flag Ops and false terrorist threats to provide pretexts for the bankster wars. I am always posting about those topics.
I will have no problems being reigned in on merit.
I do not see it as anywhere close to being half fair, that anyone realizing that 4 or 5 members of FDL in good standing are allowed to continue attacking one commenter whose hands have been tied by a moderator.
That is not the picture of fair play, I hope that is also not a picture in your book.
Water under the bridge, RGB – I hope.
1. presented ZERO evidence
2. Lots of innuendo
3. smearing
These are the typical words used by political insiders and sycophants when the truth hits them square in the jawbone…..
Using the words above, are typical ploys and “rationalizations” by avid political supportters who have no morals of their own and by those same politicians whom lie and deceive and do so smiling right in your face on the TV!!!!
That is some incorrect history. Chimpie and his Diebold voting machines stole two elections.
Gee, that looks a lot more like an ad-hominem attack than evidence. Please show some evidence that an EO would do anything more than affirm the Hyde Amendment applies to HCR.
I wanted a pony too. I’m not whining and making stuff up because HCR didn’t deliver it. I’m actually pretty happy that children with pre-existing conditions will be able to be insured, I’ve got family that benefits from that and having a kid with a brain tumor kind of makes the stakes a little different.
I think with an executive order affirming the language in Hyde there will be a challenge to SCOTUS regarding the constitutionality of this particular EO. That might be an intention of the pro-lifers, a quick move into the court while there is still a conservative majority friendly to their values.
I don’t think it’s a good sign that DeGette is going along with this. I would prefer to see everyone walk away from this bill, on that I’m in accord with the GOP. Stop this monstrosity now, let everything that has come to this point serve as a needed public education on what’s wrong with our health insurance system, and maybe, just maybe enough folks will realize that this piece of crap serves no purpose other than to enrich the insurance industry further by forcing people to purchase a private product. That’s what’s unconscionable to me. What’s next? For the good of the economy everyone has to buy American products and if you don’t you pay a huge tax to the IRS? Oh, wait a minute. We still do that through our system of tariffs and preferred-nation trading status, don’t we?
and yet you think that 69mil voters were right, rather than that they were sold an Obama Brand?
Boo Hoo!!!!
Projection….projection…go watch the movie…..It’s called “Liars Destroy All!!!!”
get a spine and man up, woman.
You support the Hyde Amendment?
I don’t….I oppose any bill which affirms the Hyde Amendment and includes this one….The Hyde Amendment should have been turned back by now and I am against any bill which reinforces and supports it in any way, shape or form……There is no such thing as supporting women’s reproductive rights on a part time basis….If HCR reinforces the Hyde Amendment then you can count me as being 100% against this disgusting bill which again—-sells out women of America!!!!
I am for a woman’s right to choose and I see no reason why public money should not be used in this medical practice as well as all others…..
Just remember which body you came out of buddy, on the day of your birth!
Why do you believe Abortion rights will be scrapped?
So far I’ve seen you attack me, and make assertions that the sky is falling. Not really seeing anything that sheds light on issues.
You’ve made your point. Let’s not take this any further or the mods will do what you’d rather they didn’t.
thank’s wizz.
I was beginning to believe that I had fallen through the looking glass.
fuckno alice, – no fucking way.
I wish it were Obama who were going to “lose” and “pay the price.”
Unfortunately, he’s playing with the “house chips” consisting of women’s lives and rights. He’s got no skin in the game. What doe HE care if he “loses” all those chips?
I can’t believe this man is the father of two daughters. But then, at their income level, they won’t have to worry about care — they’ll always be able to pay for it.
Book Salon up at the Mothership with Catherine Lutz and Anne Lutz Fernandez’s Carjacked: The Culture of the Automobile and Its Effect on Our Lives hosted by Katie Alvord
Lots of ObamaBots in here today…..
ok, but in fairness, take a look at BooRadley’s running comments. He had no bone in my rant. He smelled the protection of group think. One comment taken out of context, can be made to incriminate anyone.
Be fair, be dilligent, and prosper.
thanks, Red Blue and Green?
I’m sorry for the medical condition in your family, but this is just more of the “give me mine and fuck everyone else” mentality that got us where we are right now.
And BTW, I wouldn’t be too confident about how much “care” this piece of crap legislation is actually going to provide. I sure wouldn’t be relying on these criminals — and that includes both Obama and the health insurers. I’m sure they’ll find some reason to deny the child’s claim. It’s not like they have a good record on these matters, and with nothing in the bill to “police” them, insurance companies can continue on their merry, money-grubbing ways. Never forget: they make money off of DENYING claims.
Really? Bush got
electedappointedtwiceonce couldn’t all those people who voted for him be wrong?Fixed, thank you!
Basketball for me more than anything else these days. Politics is starting to make me sick and I’ve been into this shit for 49 years.
Not Red Blue Green, but I do appreciate your understanding.
I don’t support the Hyde Amendment.
I also don’t see it being changed without a massive change in the electorate. There are a lot of AntiChoice voters and hence a lot of representatives that promote that view. Passing a law to use AntiChoice voters taxes to pay for abortion isn’t going to happen.
Still don’t see anything that shows Abortion rights are being scrapped. States that want to fund Medicaid abortion services can still choose to do so.
I do see a lot of anger that someone disagrees with you.
If HCR had gone the way I’d prefer we would have Medicare for all, paid for by extending the HI portion of FICA to unearned income and possibly by an increase of HI taxes on higher incomes (if needed to provide actuarial soundness).
That had zero chance.
I liked the idea of a public not for profit competitor to private insurers. Too much money went to Congress for that to happen. Yes, the fix was in. I don’t like that and worked to oppose it, will support putting a public option in play in the Senate, and in future legislation.
I like that 30,000,000 more people will be insured by 2014. I like that Cody won’t be denied insurance because he had a brain tumor at age 10. I like that recission will be illegal. I like that Medicaid will be expanded. I like that community clinics will be funded.
I’m angry with the sausage making process. But I enjoy eating a nice bratwurst anyway, and since it is spring I can see firing up the grill and having a BBQ.
We call him Chimpie here. If voters had known Chimpie would impose a police state, start criminal wars, and give us financial arson meltdown, he would not have been appointed. If people knew President Obama would continue those war policies based on lies and deception, and help the corporatocracy steal our health care, and reproductive rights of women, he would not have been elected.
I cannot read candidate’s minds to know if they are honest or not. Neither can most voters. So stop disrespecting my 69 million allies.
We clearly have different ways of framing this.
I’ve got mine? Sorry, but there are millions of people that will be in a better position if this passes. It’s about helping as many people as we can given the constraints of a fucked up Congress that is controlled by corporate lobbying and campaign money.
I don’t like that we’ve got a Congress like that. I’ll work to change it my whole life. But improvement is improvement and the HCR bill is an improvement to the status quo.
AGAIN I GOING TO POST THIS EXCERPT FROM AN ARTICLE THE OTHER DAY SO ALL THE OBAMABOTS CAN READ IT!!!!!
Insurance-rate regulation dropped from latest health bill
By Steven Thomma | McClatchy Newspapers
Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2010
“….A Democratic plan for new federal power over health insurance rates was dropped Thursday from the final health care bill, squeezed out by the way the Democrats are pushing the bill through Congress….Rolled out with fanfare just weeks ago, the Democratic plan was a response to double-digit rate increases proposed by health insurance companies in California and elsewhere….It was first proposed by Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., then picked up by President Barack Obama….It would have given the federal government the power to reject proposed rate increases. It also would have allowed the secretary of health and human services to order insurance companies to give back part of premiums if the government decided that the companies spent too much of their incomes on salaries or advertising….Obama had hoped to put the proposal into the health care measure before the House of Representatives that’s designed to change the Senate-passed legislation to make it more amenable to House Democrats….. However, the Democratic plan to send the fix-up bill first to the House and then to the Senate depends on using “reconciliation” rules to get it past a Republican filibuster in the Senate….A White House aide said Thursday that the Senate parliamentarian had ruled that the new insurance-rate regulation proposal didn’t qualify to be included in that bill under rules for reconciliation…..”
Read the entire article @:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/03/18/90672/insurance-rate-regulation-dropped.html
Ahh I see that Kagros X wrote about Motions to recommit today.
With a motion to recommit, however, the minority — the out of power party! — gets to come to the floor with an amendment that need not be printed beforehand, need not be shown to anyone, need not be carefully combed-over and debated in committee, nor subjected to any of the rigors which a member of the majority must overcome to get this privilege, and then gets a vote after just 10 minutes of trading prepared speeches on the floor, which almost no one who watches C-SPAN still thinks passes for debate.
http://www.congressmatters.com/storyonly/2010/3/20/12133/8139
If the GOP offered a Motion to Recommit (to either the reconciliation bill or the Senate bill itself, they get two shots) that killed the Senate bill and put in the Plan B Medicaid expansion, they don’t have to worry themselves with paying for it (though just allowing Medicare drug price negotiations would cover it), since Motions to Recommit don’t go through pesking CBO scoring.
What’s more if the Republican substitute bill expanded Medicaid immediately (or offered the Grayson Medicare buy-in, though that’d be a tough pill for the GOP to swallow, that’d start Jan. 1, 2011), I think progressive Members would be hard-pressed to vote No. The Senate bill doesn’t start expanding coverage until Jan. 1, 2014.
You are aware that the current measures will still allow the Ins. Cos. to cancel policies for “fraud” aren’t you? Which means they will still be dropping people as it is the “fraud” that they most frequently use as an excuse today.
Good…..I am so glad you like this b.s. okay?
Give it a rest already…..
Whether you like it, or I do not like it, means absolutely nothing to those passing and writing this crapola……this bill was cooked a long time ago……the rest is nothing but political theatre for the ignorant masses…..
I am so glad that all those informed ObamaBots like this reconciliation sh## so much…..
Let the rates go up so high that it doesn’t matter whether they have to “cover your pre-existing conditions.”
First, you better be able to fork out the money……and, second, if not, make sure to have your fine money ready……
Couldn’t agree with you more. If they give in to Bart Stupak and his religious/abortion bullshit, I may have to vote GOP in 2010/2012 just to try and get this overturned. I’m so opposed to the bill for so very many reasons, and this is really the final push over the edge. I vowed I’d never vote GOP again after 2001, but…..I just don’t see the Dems getting the job done, and if they cave in on this too, along with all the other compromises…..I might have to take the plunge and see if we can get it overturned.
What is in the bill that will stop the insurance companies from dropping your son? Where’s the enforcement? $100/day if anything.
Funny. Yesterday I suggested to a poster that he watch a clip of Chomsky regarding Teabaggers.
It was rejected on grounds that “I did not “dismiss” Chomsky. I did, however, dismiss your appeal to authority fallacy.”
Would your appeal of reviewing Steven Thomma | McClatchy Newspapers be met with such a criticizm make you respect the critic’s rejection of the viability of the content on the bases of it being an ‘appeal to authority fallacy’? Could you ever take that writer seriously, again?
Yet it even happens to some front pagers here.
Great link! Thanks.
I’ll give it a rest after one final point:
There still has been nothing posted showing how Abortion rights will be scrapped by any EO.
Making stuff up is what Stupak does. Great way to keep people angry, but not so much for actually getting stuff done.
Well, I am sure that whoever dismissed Noam Chomsky has even one ounce of Chomsky’s intelligence.
Chomsky is revered the world over. As a matter of fact, Chomsky might be more respected in other nations, more than in the United States.
I am sure Gore Vidal would also be vilified. He sees no real qualitative, or quantative, differences between the two political parties.
I wouldn’t let those ObamaBots ring your bells too much. They are very similar when analzing issues to the BushBots of 4-6 years ago. The ObamaBots and the BushBots share one major trait—a determinism that their side is always right and even when in disagreement blind loyalty and support are more important than morality, ethics or principles.
Remember, Obama is related to Dick Cheney……admitted he has some Cheney blood in his body……Obama said that, not me…..
House Democrats seeking executive order on abortion funding
By Lori Montgomery, Paul Kane and Ben Pershing
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, March 20, 2010; 4:03 PM
“…..House Democrats are working with the White House to craft an executive order that would clarify President Obama’s intention to maintain a long-standing ban on federal funding of abortion, congressional Democrats said…..The effort was part of a hurried campaign by House leaders on Saturday to persuade a pivotal bloc of antiabortion Democrats to support far-reaching health insurance reforms. ….House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and others huddled in a suite of offices just off the House floor, trying to come up with language that would satisfy six to 10 lawmakers, mostly Rust Belt Catholics, who voted for an earlier version of the health-care package but have threatened to vote against the $940 billion compromise expected to come before the House on Sunday. Those lawmakers have argued that the measure would open the door to federal funding for elective abortions. Democratic leaders counter that the measure would do no such thing. ….”The intent is obviously to express what we said all along: that we believe the language that has been included in both bills seeks to accomplish . . . that there will be no use of public funds for abortion,” House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) said upon emerging from the meeting. Asked whether the document could win over a significant number of the holdouts, Hoyer said: “I’m hopeful.” ….Those close to the talks said it is likely at the very least to restate Obama’s commitment to upholding the Hyde Amendment, a 32-year-old provision…. Stupak’s office issued a statement declaring he would like the talks to continue: “Congressman Stupak remains open to working with Speaker Pelosi and the President to reach an agreement that would maintain current law which prohibits federal funding of abortions and health plans that cover abortion……”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/20/AR2010032001941.html
Sorry, Jane irrational claptrap.
It is very interesting indeed that these
House Democrats – are busy at work along with the Obama White House engineering language in an executive order maintaining this “long-standing ban on federal funding of abortion.”
Yes, this HCR would be given cover by an EO to ensure that that a “long-standing ban on federal funding of abortion” continues on and on……
The tricks and deceiving methods they have up their sleeves and skirts….
“irrational claptrap”
By the Democrats, right?
Certainly the Dems are showing lots and lots of “irrational claptrap” these days…..
It’s so good that Jane Hamsher remains the consistent rational thinker in this fight. Citizen Hamsher is very rational and in this day and age one may confuse that honorable trait with one being “irrational.”
Makes the premiums different, too. If you think you’ll be paying the same rate as your neighbor with a healthy kid, I’ve got a ‘health care’ bill to sell you…
Coverage will be ‘available’, just like abortions are now.
No matter how cynical I get – I can’t keep up.
He seemed to have a better family life.They are all looking pretty miserable these days. It is the structure of our govt. that ruins them all.Fascist.
maybe it is because your mother never taught you basic manners and common decency; you think?
Northern Iowa advanced to the Sweet Sixteen by defeating Kansas, the number 1 ranked team in the nation and number 1 seed in the tournament.
The University of Washington, the 11th seed in the East, also advanced to the Sweet Sixteen by crushing New Mexico, the 8th ranked team in the nation and 3rd seed in the East.
There’s nothing left to focus on. There is no “there” there. The jig is up. What we knew for sure about Repukes and denied for all too long about the Dems is now painfully and unavoidably obvious: They are bought, paid for, signed, sealed and delivered by the corporate interests. The ONLY thing they now believe in is money. Public service is a long gone quaint notion. It’s all about getting, keeping and increasing power/control. Even if they arrive in DC pure and with the best intentions, it’s impossible to jump in a cesspool and not end up wet and smelly. I weep for my children/grandchildren.
10th seeded St. Mary’s defeated 2nd seeded Villanova 75-68 and Butler defeated Murray State 54-52.
Ain’t no shortage of March Madness today, the Vernal Equinox.
Ah, the trolls left talking to each other (and reinforcing their own views), as the rest of the conversation moves elsewhere.
There is a here here even if there’s no there there. Halftime: Kentucky 44, Wake Forest 28.
Somehow this is amplified into Obama is against reproductive freedom. It seems to me that it is much more likely that any EO will simply affirm that no federal funds can be used to subsidize coverage for abortion services
Did some of you miss 1973 when abortion was cemented as a guaranteed right? Was gastric bypass codified by SCOTUS? Knee replacements? Heart bypasses?
The transparent willingness to steamroll over women’s healthcare and foist reproductive rights up as a target flag is pathetic and disgusting, and something I would expect from moderate Republicans. That it’s taking place among Democrats is the reason I no longer am one, for the first time in 30 years.
I can EPU a thread with sports talk anytime anywhere.
Any Executive Order that can be signed can be rescinded with another Executive Order. Stupak has no assurances with this “deal.”
Playing deep reserves for the final ten minutes after establishing a 30 point lead, Kentucky slaughtered Wake Forest 90-60 to advance to the Sweet Sixteen.
That kind of wishful thinking and two bits will get you a 3-minute phone call answered by a machine that laughs at your gullibility and tells you to screw yourself.
Obama killed that with his private meetings w/ AHIP and the hospitals before congress had a chance to do anything.