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Both Republicans and Democrats offered amendments to the health care bill today in the Rules Committee. They have no chance of getting a vote on the floor, but looking at the Republican amendments can provide some insights into the upcoming GOP campaign against the bill in the midterm.
Clearly the Republicans will attack the individual mandate and the IRS enforced penalty for not buying private insurance. Republicans offered a total of five different amendments to kill or effectively cripple the individual mandate:
| Brown-Waite (FL) | #66 | Would repeal the individual mandate. |
| Brown-Waite (FL) | #67 | Would repeal the sections of the bill that require the IRS to enforce the individual mandate. |
| Lummis (WY), Johnson, Sam (TX) | #41 | Would allow States to opt out of any provisions of the bill to the extent that they mandate the purchasing of health insurance by residents in such State, mandate the provision of health insurance by employers in such State, or interfere with the ability of patients to privately contract with medical providers and insurers under the laws of such State |
| Gingrey (GA) | #27 | Would require the Secretary of Health and Human Services to provide for an opt-out process from the individual mandate for every American citizen. |
| Scalise (LA) | #65 | Would strike the individual health care mandate. |
The individual mandate remains one of the most unpopular provision in the entire health care bill. Polling it has shown that offering a public alternative (public option or Medicare buy-in) dramatically reduced opposition to the individual mandate. Foolishly, Democrats choose to leave both public alternative out of this bill.
Don’t be surprised when the individual mandate starts appearing in many hard-hitting Republican attack ads in the coming months.
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It should be obvious that republicans would go after the mandate as a “tax increase” on the middle class. Sadly, particularly with the IRS as the enforcer, they are correct.
Were I a marketing professional, I would much prefer to be writing the copy for the upcoming republican campaign than the democratic one. In addition to the tax angle, I would milk the ever-livin’ crap out of one simple slogan……”HE LIED”.
Notice also the GOP does not seem to oppose taxing the rich instead to pass the bill. They do not suggest spending cuts either.
”HE LIED” works on the progressive Democrats that tried to send a message with the Scott Brown win in Mass – and nationalizing the message removes the I hate Congress but like my Congressman safety net that incumbents have always relied on,
We have been saying the GOP would run against Obamacare this election if it passes I guess the Campaign Season just started. Lets see Rahm brag about how this will help Dems get elected. Lets see Rahm win without us.
Simply put, this is an unassailable strategy.
It doesn’t matter to the Corporatist elite if some Dems. have to be thrown to the wolves so they get their mandate. Even better they can call on their Goper brothers to use their victory to gain them even more Goper power, which of course is much closer to their own program and probably less costly graft wise. Its a win win for the Gopers and the Corps. BHO and Rahm like Clinton before them can work just as easily with Goper Corp. agents no problem.
Brown-Waite (FL) #66 Would repeal the individual mandate.
Brown-Waite (FL) #67 Would repeal the sections of the bill that require the IRS to enforce the individual mandate.
I’m good with those….
How can anyone defend this bill by saying a mandate delivers healthcare to millions? A mandate means you have to buy insurance. That has nothing to do with healthcare at all! Do not for the life of me get how people on the blogs can defend that, like they are doing on the Orange and White. Good grief, mandated car insurance guarantees what? You NEVER receive what you have paid, and it’s never enough to cover what replacement is worth of your vehicle. How do they think this will be any different?
We should ask the GOP putting up these amendments just what would the tax or cut to pay for the bill instead of forcing the middle class to pay for it.
We need to make the GOP squirm.
Orange is KOZ and White is?
“…mandated car insurance guarantees what? ”
Comparisons with car insurance are incredibly lame. First the mandated part of car insurance does not protect what is yours, it protects the other guy. Second, most people buy car insurance for a lifetime and NEVER make a claim. Sooner or later, everybody gets sick.
Some of us are very comfortable with the idea of making the Democrats squirm: they earned it, and they deserve it.
Rahm is deliberately killing the Dems so Republicans come back and Obama can finally strip all domestic spending down to the studs, and funnel all tax dollars to defense spending.
He wants a win with our war in Iran, and don’t think this guy wouldn’t do it. He’s a monster who makes Bush look like a Boy Scout.
Lame? What does health insurance, mandated or otherwise protect? It pays out to the other guy (doctor, hospital) so it is the same there. If you try to claim on car insurance, you have to fight for every last penny. How easy is it to get money out of a health insurance policy? Oh ya, the same.
If this bill was such a great thing, there would not be so much chaos around it and passed a long time ago.
The Democrats had to repivot this healthcare bill and find sneaky and alternative ways to get it through because it sucks so much.
If this bill was so wonderful, Democrats would have passed it long ago and would be able to tell you the many wonderful things in it….
Instead, Chris van Hollen has to lie to the people when he goes on the many shows and that the Dems will be on a public relations campaign from now until November trying to justify this SH%%itty-ass bill.
“We need to make the GOP squirm.” Not me, Im going to be doing my best to see every Dem running at every level this Nov. loses. Let the people the Dems represent vote for them.
There are more severe regulations on the American people in this bill than there are on insurance or pharma. It’s laughable and Obama and the Democrats are playing this up like it’s the second coming of Social Security. What planet are these people living on?
Another blog that I thought was progressive, but was sadly mistaken. Let’s just say, another Dem cheerleader ;-)
Social security may be next. Hold onto your wallet.
Let’s see Democrats campaign in their re-elections telling Americans “how wonderful this Health Care Bill” is and how it will be a positive influnce on your life.
Let’s see the Democrats go out and defend the Individual Mandate during their upcoming re-election campaigns as well.
Ed Rendell is lying right now as well on the Mike Huckabee show and keeping up with that phony-ass “ending pre-existing conditions” item even though there is no mechanism to stop insurance companies from increasing rates…..there is plenty of ambiguous lanuage in this bill to allow sharp corporate lawyers to manipulate its many loopholes as well.
Don’t let them continue to LIE!
And everyday until the next election is going to be make a weasel Dem squirm day. The Day after the election we really start rubbing it in.
We can do both. I don’t like either of them.
Yes, Pete Peterson and the Peterson Institute have already issued many books and articles on ways to cut Social Security…..Like welfare reform before in which Clinton ended it will take Democrats to roll back Social Security. People should have seen this coming during Obama’s presidential campaign. I saw it coming and nobody else did? When he was pressed on specifics, Obama would always say, there you again playing those same “Washington games that people are sick of.” Then Obama after chiding opponents and mever fully answering the question or rebuttal would urge people to go to his website. That was Obama’s typical retort when questioned on the campaign trail. Obama always evaded talking about specifics on the campaign trail in 2000-08. The Democrats even under Clinton flirted with ending Social Security until he became embroiled with the Monica Lewinsky thong and ball story. Thank Ken Starr and even Monica Lewinsky for saving Social Security under Clinton.
William Greider has written articles on this and so have writers at counterpunch.org.
Yes, Social Security cuts will be next and the Obama sycophants and the same jerks who are standing behind Obama now will be the same ones defending social security cuts as well.
I was thinking the very same thing. The GOP has no power.
The election I’m looking forward to is in 2012. I’m so thoroughly disgusted with BHO, who I couldn’t wait to vote for in ’08, that I might, honestly, vote for Sarah Palin if she’s the Repuke running against him. I just want the pleasure of taking back my vote from ’08.
Asshole. (BHO, not you TCU *g*)
2 p.m.: The House will debate for one hour the rules of debate for the reconciliation bill and the Senate bill.
3 p.m.: The House will vote to end debate and vote on the rules of the debate.
3:15 p.m.: The House will debate the reconciliation package for two hours.
5:15 p.m.: The House will vote on the reconciliation package.
5:30 p.m.: The House will debate for 15 minutes on a Republican substitute and then vote on the substitute.
6 p.m.: The House will vote on the final reconciliation package.
6:15 p.m.: If the reconciliation bill passes, the House will immediately vote on the Senate bill, without debate.
Car insurance mandate: I have to buy insurance if I drive. I can choose not to drive and therefore not buy insurance or I can choose to drive and buy insurance.
ObamaCare mandate: If I live in the USA, I have to buy insurance. My only options are a) comply b) don’t comply and go to jail c) move outside USA or d) die.
See the difference?
Yes, it will be the next thing cut because they can’t fund it. It is sad that so many have paid into SS and will get nothing back.
Please vote third party before you vote Obama or Sarah.
They looted Social Security for one.
The looting of Social Security–that money went into defense spending and funding illegal wars.
I meant 2007-08 regarding Obama’s campaign but in way he was doing it for that long.
Support Carly Fiorina over Barbara Boxer….It is now time to vote out all those so-called “feminist” Democrats.
The truly sad thing is they could fund it, fund the wars, fund real healthcare, and pay down the deficit if they would just tax the rich assholes the way other social democracies do.
The unwillingness to tax the rich, along with Americans voting for and supporting every tax cut proposed over the last three decades resulting in deficits that now make just paying the interest more than half a billion a year, is why we’re in the mess we’re in.
Assholes.
I’m good with killing the mandate or having a good, robust public option or medicare buy in. I’d be happier with both in fact.
I agree BUT
1….car insurance….you have an accident, you have to fight with them to get them to pay for your damages
2….health insurance…you get sick, you have to fight with them to get them to pay for you……
Either way, you lose until the insurance industry is taken out.
It really _is_ The World Turned Upside Down.
And they’re only making these noises 1) to oppose the Dems and 2) because there’s no danger whatever of these suggestions becoming law.
Which, IMO, they should…no matter who’s proposing them!!!
FunnyDiva
David Dayen is upstairs!
Kurt Schrader Commits To Voting Yes: 205 Yes, 207 No
Good grief, NO. You may not like Boxer but Carly is a true vicious nutbag.
Speaking of no money to pay for social security…did you know the tab so far in Afghanistan for training their police is over 6 billion??
Same here. I’d be ok with the mandate (though I still question whether it’s constitutional) if there was an option where we didn’t have to give the money to the asshole for profit insurance companies.
I wish I knew, and I wish they weren’t making laws for the planet that I and so many other truly decent human beings inhabit!
FunnyD
For those interested here’s a site people should check out. There are many more. In the 1930’s many Germans waited too long and they and their families regretted their caution. The struggle will continue but now may not be the time to do it in the States. Obama is reaching cult status that only Bush could have dreamed of. The future does not look bright.
http://escapeartist.com/
Yes. Single payer or medicare buy in is the only same solution and so, the only one we will never get.
NPR said on Thursday that this is the largest expansion of the “social safety” net since the passage of Medicare. I wonder if news people even know that much of what they say to the public is nothing more than propaganda?
He’s almost as popular as Bush in the Middle East.
The next phase of this horror show is emerging. Hopefully it will not pass, but if it does, the “sudden suprise” of the gotchas in the POS bill will make people ballistic. For some strange and bizzare reason, Democrats of the DU flavor think that we will not have a hard time in the fall because of this. Of course the denial of reality is strong there, they think this is the best thing since sliced bread. They have a habit of using people for fodder in the centrist quest for gold.
The Republicans will be on a tear, and the ads will be devastating. They will scorch the earth with ads that will hit at the insanity of this “reform”.
Obama is now the official architect of the destruction of the Democratic party. If this thing is a done deal, we will be also. We will have Obama to thank as the doormat for the next Republican president that will arrive in 2012.
It’s almost comedy that Monty Python would write. Obama reads a letter from a person that needs help to prove his point at his little love fest, but then does not mention this person will not get any as they are probably untouchable with a pre-existing. I was waiting for him to say “hold on, 2012 is right around the corner!”
Now that’s change!
Unlike Europe and many other enlightened places in the world that recognize the value of the commons and a “we” society, owning and driving a private vehicle is nearly mandatory.
I’m talking about cult status in the United States. He could announce an invasion of Iran tomorrow and the Dimocrats and their legions would be lining up outside of recruitment offices to defend the “Homeland.”
Vote for the nutbag. You will always know what to expect from the nutbag.
Yep, mainly due to the flock to suburbia after WWII. There are cities that you just have to have a car to properly function in. I own a car that I finished paying off last year. Now to see how long I can keep it alive and healthy…
Checked out the jobs section at that link. Construction worker, to work in Iraq, $55/hour plus free meals lodging etc. Doesn’t say anything about security. Interesting.
The GOP doesn’t need power at the moment because their corporate “lite” wing is holding the power for them until the keys are handed back to them from Mr. Bipartisan at a later date. 2012 or 2016 it really doesn’t matter one way or the other.
Used to be,”At least you can count on Boxer for women’s issues.”
No more…
That said, Fiorina is a disease.
That’s what gets Republicans elected all right. Most people really don’t like where Republicans want to go but at least they KNOW where that is. Both parties are corrupt and self serving to the core but at least people know what Republicans want, where Democrats’ destinations are always a last minute surprise.
I smell massive Republican victory in 2010.
The Republicans have an issue that fits their rhetoric, appeals to Tea Partiers, and frankly isn’t too far from the truth, so it will be appealing to most independents and even some among the base of the Democratic Party (many among the base will just stay home).
I’m angry at Obama and the Dems because they took the power the people gave them, squandered it, and will now turn power – and us – back over to the Republicans.
Some around here and many at DKos can defend this shit all they like. The fact is that Obama and the Democratic Party leadership are responsible for what’s going to happen this Nov.
California is in way too much trouble to play games. Can’t do that. Carly is a real hater.
I know, I was joking. But I don’t think his popularity will mean coattails in the fall. Perhaps he doesn’t care about that.
Just what Obama was hoping for. Now he can move even further to the right and call it “recalibration.”
Way to really stick with it Grayson
Grayson (FL)
#2
Withdrawn Would allow any American citizen or permanent resident to buy into Medicare at cost and benefit from Medicare parts A, B, and D. The amendment creates six age brackets (actuarial pools) and requires each pool to be solvent or pay for itself.
Meet the new boss…..
Same as the old boss…..
That remains to be seen. Personally I don’t think he really cares about 2010. See above.
But can you send him money? Gag……..unreal.
As California goes so goes the nation.
Don’t think he does either. Really doesn’t seem to matter. You get almost identical legislation whether it be D or R. I’m baffled these parties have the members and support they do have.
No worries. Grayson will stick with his moneybomb all the same… Shameless asshole.
I like your style!!!! *G*
And for what is going to happen to me and everyone else like me who will be even MORE at the mercy of the rapacious “Health” Insurance industry. Dear God, it really seems the world has gone mad. Or I have…
FunnyD
It’s all about the game to them and their partisan supporters. Nothing else matters but who gets to declare victory and who has to bow to defeat. Policy, people…..nothing matters but the game.
Bloodbath.
I just hope a lot of the good folks here stay true and do NOT reward the Democrats with his/her vote. Sometimes I wonder and think the lesser of two evils will get ‘em when they enter the voting precinct.
Not me. The Democrats have done everything they can to deserve a severe ass whipping in November. I’m going to do my part to see they get it.
Seriously, it’s like the American people have been thrown to the wolves.
This is what the Democrats worked so hard to achieve after they started out with some decent ideas that they themselves dismantled and destroyed?
Moneybomb!
The funny thing is that if healthcare for all was done, everyone covered, the economy would improve almost instantly.
Now we all have our personal boat anchors. Not to be completely gloomy, but an industry of HC specialists will emerge, as we will not be able to do our taxes or discipher the new rules.
Me, too.
Normally I’d be tempted to vote D because they’re better than the R’s– but we’ve seen this week especially that there really is no difference. I disagree with those who say to stay home and sit out the vote. Voting is my right and I want my voice heard. I figure voting for a 3rd party candidate is better than sitting out because it dilutes the win for either the R or D and perhaps, just perhaps, if enough of us do it it will be message that they cannot ignore.
I just cannot believe in how many ways and how many levels the Democrats–particularly Obama– have betrayed us.
Not at all. If you make over $200,000 a year, you’re still good.
I’m only contributing to FDL https://secure.firedoglake.com/page/contribute/donatetofdl or to primary challengers, including Marcy Winograd and Bill Halter.
Otherwise, I’m going to write in “Howard Dean” rather than vote for any Democrat.
Just $200,000 a year? That’s it? No luck here. But it is good to know as I get thrown to the wolves that the rich will be so well protected and will benefit most from this bad joke on the American people.
Yes as I enter my fifteenth month of unemployment, I can’t describe the comfort I get from the wealthy being so well taken care of. As I debate whether to take the only job offer that I have had and one that I can’t begin to live on, my stress is eased that they are being looked after from on high.
At least Grayson had the decency to pay FDL to advertise his stupid moneybomb.
Weiner sent a staffer over to publicize his call for people to give him more money in a diary at The Seminal. He didn’t even have the decency to support FDL by paying to advertise it. Dick.
If Republicans run ads attacking the individual mandate they will have to say good-bye to insurance company money. But I suppose they can claim to be against it while privately making deals with the insurance companies, just like the Democrats. Unless I’m missing something, I don’t see this mandate going away.
That’s right. Didn’t you have an interview a couple of weeks ago that went well? I’m sorry to hear that it won’t pay very much.
Why would the insurance companies care about what any politician tells the American people in order to get elected? They know that they’ll be treated well once the Republicans take power, just like they’ve been treated well by Obama and the Democrats now in power.
No it won’t. But the Republicans will milk it to get elected. Then magically forget about it.
NAFTA and all our trade deals that sent our jobs overseas helped in drastocally lowering the SS funds. But that was part of the plan, wasn’t it.
Ooops, looks like we have to cut what you;ve paid into your entire life, but God no, we can’t cut one penny from defense spending.
I wanna know what they’re defnding these days? Or is this what they call keeping us safe? Ha! Jobless, homeless, uneducated, and sick, but yeah, they’re keeping us safe. HA!
They scare the hell outta me me on a daily basis. Osama, who? I never worry about it. The odss I’ll die early from the current circumstances of being an American are fr greater than being killed in some terrorist attack, probably carried out by my own government anyway.
I don’t know. They say they’re going to nationalize this election by every Republican promising to repeal it. If they do that, I think they’ll likely follow through and repeal it.
Then pass some new bullshit health savings account or some other bullshit that only benefits the rich.
Still though, this is one year where the Democrats have earned a “thumping” as the last asshole in the White House describes it.
I was told to expect 21 hours a week OR FEWER. I can’t live on that. It doesn’t even match UI benefits. If I wasn’t the sole earner in my home it would be an opportunity to get my foot in the door but I can’t accept the position unless than can accept that I need to earn enough to live and eat.
That’s an option too. Though I believe Obama would veto repealing the mandate. The mandate’s not going anywhere; the Republicans like it too–they’re just looking for a way to get in on the insurance industry action.
Are you serious? Carly Fiorina?
She’s a fucking sleazeball crook. Third party or nobody.
Boxer doesn’t deserve Jack Shit.
There’s a great line in Robert Graves “Claudius: The God” a history of the reign of Emperor Claudius. When Claudius, an honorable man and reluctant emperor who had from his youth longed for a return of the Republic finally realizes that the “reform” of so corrupt, venal and vile a nation so consumed by greed, self-interest and self-indulgence was an impossibility. There would be no return to a past Golden Age of Rome. The “people” who he believed would demand a restoration, were no more interested in a past Golden Age than were the royal rivals for a crown. With all hope now abandoned he accepts the inevitability that things would have to play themselves out in a future even darker than one could imaginge. He quotes an ancient Druidic poem about Old King Log who merely floats passively on the surface of a fetid pond
“Yet I am, I must remember, Old King Log.
I shall float inertly in the stagnant pool.
Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.”
Carly is nothing but a poison that lurks in the mud.
She certainly is. She doesn’t acknowledge that people out of her “class” even exist.
don’t give an inch, they sure as hell won’t.
I live in Marcy Winogard’s district (optimism). Are we going to have to settle for Mr. prop 13 himself, because if so, nothing will change?
Fired from HP for incompetence and worse, but fit to represent California? – yeah right.
Bill Halter is another opportunist.
For crapsakes, don’t send any of these people your pennies. Why in God’s name woould you give any Democrats another cent? They can get their billions from the people they’re working for, and it isn’t us.
I’ll put it another way. How many times will you believe what these people say to get elected, then once they’re in, they just can’t seem to stick to their campaign promises. Obama is the poster child of campaign lies, so come on. They’re using you and laughing at you.
Save your money. You’re gonna need it big time.
What would a man of character do once this POS bill was passed?
He would say we’ve taken only one very small and compromised step. He would tell us he knew why we were disappointed. He would admit that he had badly mismanaged the process. He would admit also that he had cut an unfortunate deal early on and mistakenly felt he had to honor it — rather than honoring his oath of office. And he would promise to try — again and again — as long as he was president to deliver what he had promised when we elected him.
But that’s not the way I see this going. I see a man of little character touting the greatest achievement since SS. I hope I am wrong. But if that’s the road he does take, he deserves our utter contempt. If only to keep him from repeating the travesty again and again.
Many employers now seem to be playing that game to avoid giving benefits to employees. It’s like being hit twice. First, not enough income from so few hours. Second, no benefits. It’s sickening.
The second-to-last paragraph describes me. The individual mandate is the #1 reason why I don’t support this bill. The fact that the corporate Democrats in Congress are actually going to fine people for not purchasing insurance from the very companies that are ripping people off is so absurd. If there were a public option, I would settle for the mandate. But a requirement without an alternative option? Why don’t they just give the Republicans all the power now? Oh wait…
I only gave to Halter once, just after he announced, and I did it only to send a message to the leadership of the Democratic Party. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re right about Halter, but politicians need to know that people are angry.
I don’t know what Halter will turn out to be, but I want Blanche Lincoln gone and I don’t care what Dem I have to contribute to in order to get that done.
The “people” allowed him to do this. They are now hailing him as a new messiah thinking that he has delivered on the promise he once gave to the people. I to do not expect him to be honest with the people but rather to maintain the charade and if this is the case he is beneath our contempt.
I think it’s a fantasy that the individual mandate could be effectively used in negative campaigning in all but the most red districts. Think of what it actually sounds like:
“Congressman X voted to make sure that you have health insurance, whether you like it not, damnnit!
I’m state senator Y and I approve this message.”
If you consider the money gurbbing Grayson decent just because he paid to advertise here, you’re too easy on these people. I’m not ragging on you or intending to be petty but please wake up. These people are sub humans. They know full well what they’re doing, and what this POS bill means to middle class and poor people.
IMHO, people like Grayson and Weiner are worse than the discusting Blue Dogs because they sandbagged you all. Then, have the incredible gonads to come back here asking for more.
Time to toughen up with these frauds. No mercy, Take no prisoners.
If they don’t vote how they promised, they don’t deserve the time of day.
Or, you can be the fucking retarded doormats they all think we are.
How about this:
“Democrats have saddled the ‘Mer’kan people with a compulsory mandate to private industry, making the IRS the enforcer – not exactly letting freedom ring, now is it?”
Right, keep supporting the Dems just because they’re a Dem, and expect things to change. There’s a word for doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Voting for any Democrat after this display of contempt for the American people is insane.
I don’t think you have to be worried about being hired by a Republican ad firm.
I don’t live in Arkansas so I can’t vote there. I do, however, detest Lincoln. She is dishonest and a liar.
She does not represent her voters and she is totally owned by Wal-Mart, Tyson, and big insurance. It might take a few years for Halter to get that bad.
Hey friend:
You can count on me. I will never vote for them, ever again.
Furthermore, I loathe and despise them so much if I saw any one of them, preferably Obama, laid out and dying of thirst in the Arizona desert, his outstretched hand begging for water, I would simply step right over them.
But, not before I chug down my big, fresh, ice cold bottle of H20.
For that is the exact same level of compassion and care they have shown to us.
I know how bad Lincoln is. Blue Dog, corporate, blah, blah, blah. Thing is, they are all corporate now. The Blue Dogs are a tool of the party to place blame on why they keep moving to the Right. Lincoln has more in common with a Bernie Sanders than you think. And that is Blanche cares aboutr Blanche and Bernie cares about Bernie. Nothing else comes before themselves. Once you understand that, nothing else matters. There’s no honor or patriotism in these people. Integrity in Congress is dead, down the drain for good once Reagan started dribbling in his oatneal by pitting Americans against each other.
He made selfish the flag, and Obama is rubbing our faces in it.
Why must you set the bar so low from the start? You’re hoping Halter doesn’t screw you in the first year, but know he will eventually, Don’t you find that unacceptable?
I think that’s a damn good reason not to vote for any Dem asshole again. They’ re just gonna keep bagging you year after year.
You’re also forgetting something though I understand since it’s been so long, but THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR US. THEY AREN’T.
FIRE THEIR ASSES AND FIND A THIRD PARTY YOU LIKE. DON’T LET THEM BOX YOU INTO THINKING WE HAVE OBLY TWO CHOICES. THIS MINDSET GUARANTEED NOTHING WILL EVER CHANGE.
Lisa Derrick’s diary is front-paged!
Saturday Art: John Roecker’s Video Manifesto on Creativity and Self
Drop any worries of attacks-from-the-left-from-the-right against this thing immediately. Bragging about this bill will be the nationwide Democratic campaign strategy. People who already have insurance won’t care about the mandate. People who don’t have insurance generally want insurance. Republicans and moderates don’t care about the “mandate to buy from a private company” angle. All you’re left with is the subset of young people who don’t want to pay for insurance, and also won’t be put on their parent’s policies for free. These people don’t vote much in midterms anyways.
The key problem with the “do both” approach – allow a mandate but only with a public option – is that the mandate will invariably be far more powerful than the public option. Just look at the POS version of a public option that was in the House bill – not available for anyone who already has insurance, among other things. The political reality is that any public option that is ever going to get passed will be very narrowly drawn, hobbled and crippled and contorted by truly unnecessary requirements (Why, for example, would it be state-by-state, instead of nationwide? And why only available to the uninsured?)
So, the practical thing, the most effective thing, and the most righteous thing to do is to KILL THE MANDATE. On this issue (and pretty much this issue only), the Repugs are taking the right position. So, there is some decent hope for success. BUT, you can be sure that Pelosi-Clyburn-Reid-Durbin and company will all whip the Democratic Congresscritters to vote to preserve the mandate. Just as Reid-Durbin-and others killed drug reimportation.
I hate the guy worse than Bush. No joke. Bush may have walked that “Compassionate Conservative” thing out there, but Obama lied about just about everything in his campaign. Has there ever been a president who governed at a 180 on what he promised? And the Democrats just went right along with it. Who would have guessed 14 months into his presidency and things would be this hopeless? Surreal.
Before they get into the meat of stripping social security, next on Obummer’s plate will probably be some meaningless crumb thrown to progressives. Probably some hand waving on Dawn Johnson’s nomination or something.
The forced mandate with IRS enforcement is going to haunt the dems for a long time. Only an fckn retard wld think the American people wld swallow this .
Looks like we’re officially joining the “beware of what the GOP will say” fan club. It’s too bad that some have put themselves so deeply into the box that they don’t have a means to get out….Me? I’ll take 32 million added to the healthcare rolls …Maybe the haters here should join the teabaggers. With all of the ‘foaming at the mouth’, at least you’ll have your own spit to hurl.
I think so too.
But we all can make a change in 2010. Lets get few candidates from deep blue districts elect third party candidates like GREEN party which does not accept corporate donations for campaigns. These candidates voting record will force both of the parties to switch gears in this race to bottom of obtaining corporate donations at the expense of the long term welfare of the country. Corporate donations is the reason why even progressives in the congress are switching vote for party sake for this crappy bill against their common sense and committing moral hazard.
Please do VOTE. If you do not you are not counted in these policies and things will become even worse with ever increasing direct or indirect mandates for middle class.
For a change from now on, I am going to vote my conscience and vote GREEN party anyway whether it matters or not in the final outcome in my district and my state and I hope you all too for third parties. It was our mistake that these two parties do not have serious competition and we need to change that in 2010.
See ya in November.
No chance you’ll see the dead enders here after the woodshedding.
I’ve been saying repeatedly (usually to ridicule on places like HuffPo), that the Republicans will hammer home three basic talking points all through the election season:
1) You are being forced to buy insurance
2) If you don’t, the IRS will come after you
3) Those benefits you are being forced to buy may be taxed
They are simple, fear-inspiring points. And coupled with a compliant corporate media with Faux News at the forefront, those talking points will resound with voters who won’t have experienced any real concrete benefits by election day. And as has been proven time and time again, Democrats are maddeningly incapable of defending themselves when attacked. Some Dems will try to cite numbers and statistics, but you will be able to watch voters’ eyes glaze over in response. Dems simply still do not know how to frame. I continue to predict the Dems will be slaughtered over this bill.
Yep, you’re probably right.
Assholes.
They stop by here and ridicule and demean us and then will wonder WTF happened in November.
Then, they’ll blame us for the defeat instead of the rightful owners of the blame, which is the Democrats in Washingon, D.C.
Only strategy I know is to keep sending the message over and over and over every November. No more of our votes until you actually deliver on policy. They’ll either eventually come around and stop shitting on us or a third party will most certainly pop up to pick up the huge void on the left of the political spectrum.
Sorry about that, but if you want to make it easier for them to cut SS, then vote for Carly Fiorina, who is a really contemptible lying wretch. Meg Whitman is equally bad.
I think that’s right. It’s a shitty approach to politics, but what choice do we have? They don’t even need our money anymore (though they’d love to have it). The only leverage we have, the only thing we can withhold that the Democrats want, is our votes.
So, Boxer isn’t getting my vote or my money. Let the f-ing chips fall where they may.
Totally agree.
If Sen Boxer wants CA votes, voter money and their time please ask her to register with GREEN party in CA and then she will get the votes from progressives. This bill showed no matter how progressive they talk themselves to be they will vote the party line on issues that MATTER i.e. Issues with Individual Mandates paid to corporations. GREEN party does not take corporate contributions as Party charter and so she will be free to work on behalf of people. Same is the case for Rest of the Democrats. This should be the approach of Progressives till the Democrats put a self-imposed charter of not taking a single corporate dime directly or indirectly. They cannot hide behind the lame excuse for corporate contributions of Republicans taking them in a two party dominant system which is not at all a logical choice if they really in the core of heart bent on doing the right thing for the people.
Yep. Gore Vidal said America has a Property Party with two wings, the Republican wing and the Democrat wing. That’s about the size of it.
You are totally right. Republicans will win huge perhaps landslide not seen in a generation if this bill without PO or any cost controls but with individual mandates passes. EG. Mrs. Coakley was cruising to victory in polls in deep blue Massachusetts till the senate version revealed the PO bait and switch to people and Sen Brown got elected instead in the elections. This is not some bill people forget since it is not bill which affects some industry for a limited time. On this bill they need to deal with it on a daily basis and remember Democrats in a bad light when AHIP and IRS starts squeezing them for money.
For progressives like me it no longer makes sense to vote, contribute money or time to Democratic party when they do not even want to listen and put cost-control measures we raised so many times. This bill slowly destroys the economy & social fabric for Americans over a decade.
Please do not skip voting in 2010 in disgust. We pay more than 50% direct and indirect taxes and if we do not want a say on how they are spent for next generations benefit it will be a bad move. In addition they will add us with more mandates in next legislation being concocted like climate change, social security etc. Best thing we can do is participate and vote third party like GREEN party. Hopefully this trend will result in 5 Green Reps from Deep Blue districts and 1 Green senator from a small blue state. When these reps and senator block bills till they become better and simpler whole country will notice and soon we have a healthy competative political environment benefitting people. This is an extremely realistic goal besides being a moral and conscientious thing to do.
The operative word is think. They don’t.
Medicare and SS are next. That’s been obvious for awhile now. Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles as co-chairs of a deficit commission? But the fistprint has been on the Washington wall for months, even before Obama’s deficit commission announcement. Do you realize how ironic it is that the gutting of social welfare the Republicans got scorched for and couldn’t accomplish is being done with almost no significant opposition by a purported Democrat?
In car insurance you have a choice. You cannot afford you donot buy car and so no car insurance. In health insurance there is no such choice. For your family responsibilities which varies from individual to individual if you want to take the huge risk of not carrying insurance when premiums has already sky rocketed beyond affordability then IRS will come after you with liens on your property, bank accounts etc. Now you already have this huge risk and on top of that IRS will be after you. Really bad situation if you think about. In this situation how can you fulfill family responsibilites.
No comparision at all. This is a worse situation then the existing situation of having freedom of choice and only sad but true price control mechanism present of choice of opting out.
Now, c’mon, there’s no jail in the current bill. There isn’t any real enforcement mechanism. That may come later but let’s stick to the know facts, here, they’re quite bad enough.
Me, too. But I can tell you from experience, Medicare isn’t fabulous. Altho just on the basis of the deductible, currently $135 annually, you might think so. It’s certainly way better than the pile of pickup knives purporting to be a health care bill.
Yes, apparently she is. The foot soldiers at HP were deliriously happy when she got canned.
I think climate change is next followed by social security.
I am most interested on how the funds planned to be raised ignoring all the drama. I will leave whether climate change is true or not to Beck and Keith to fight over air-waves. Since wall street thinks it is true coupled with severe winter I am leaning towards opposite side ignoring my logical bent towards proof.
After bait and switch stuff is over climate change will raise indirect mandates from middle and poor class through utility bills. Simply destroy remaining american economy at a exponential rate since every household will not have a single expendable dollar left to splurge on simple things like visit to park, school books etc.
Followed by this biggest one will be SS which will be done by cutting benefits, raising retirement age and increasing taxes with income cap remaining the same. This will cause so much hardships to our most vulnerable section of the society who deserve peaceful time at that stage in their lives.
Solution to all these mess:
Progressive tax with no income limit.
You can drop the tax rate on all the income tax payers like a rock. They will never broach this in any solution they propose in any of the bills.
If you look at our paycheck only progressive tax is Medicare tax without income limits which was brought in by LBJ who I think is the most progressive president after President Thomas Jefferson from Democratic party of old times we hoped is still present in 2008. Even after bearing the true and real medical expenses it is a low rate of 1.45% because it has no income limit. That is the solution to jump start our economy and make America great but I am sure this simplicity of a solution is too much to ask for with our Senate, Congress and Executive branch.
Well, yes, there is that.
Funny how that works.
I feel for Dawn Johnson. She’s gone back to teaching. The only thing Obama has done that looks good to me is the student loan re-working. And I’m holding my applause until a bill becomes law because Obama is a bait and switch grifter. We’ll live, we’ll see.
Ya think?
To the supporters of this monstrosity, I’d like to know where you think the money will come from.
If you say “tax the rich” try again. You could tax everyone making $500K+ more at 100% and it would cover about a year’s worth of ObamaCare.
The answer of course is “tax everyone”. And the only silver lining for me in all of this madness is that soon enough all the HopeNChangers who thought they would be getting free this and free that while also getting one of those magical ‘middle class tax cuts’ will be in for one rude awakening.
Yes, I’ve been thinking and saying exactly the same thing. I’d like a piece from Jon Walker on the plausibility of GOOPER ‘repeal’. They won’t repeal. They’ll replace an abomination with an abomination to the power of 3 or 4. No one seems to have picked up on this. The GOOPER’s will NEVER harm insurance company interests. This bill was written by and for the insurance industry. The GOOPER’s cannot bite any corporate hand that feeds them.
Sure there is.
The enforcement will be by the IRS. Failure to comply with the mandate will be treated the same as as failure to pay income tax. Now granted not everyone who cheats on their taxes goes to jail. But some do. And I don’t expect everyone who doesn’t buy the Pelosi approved PPO plan will be in jail either. But some might.
The fact there is even the remote possibility of it happening is beyond outrageous.
Give it time.
Once Cap N Tax is implemented, most of us won’t be able to afford a car anymore.
Funny how undereducated, ignorant Teabaggers do NOT even know that THIER beloved Teabagging GOPers put … PUT … “Individual Mandates” IN the Senate Bill – not the Dems & NOT Obama but it was THEIR beloved Teabagging GOPerss
1. June 2009 – Chuck Grassley (R) defended the GOP Individual Mandate on FOX
Fox Transcript:
CHUCK GRASSLEY(R) “So I think individual mandates are more apt to be accepted by a vast majority of people in Congress than an employer mandate would be, as an example. I believe that there is a bipartisan consensus to have individual mandates.”
Link to Fox transcript: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,526301,00.html
2. GOP have supported Individual Mandates for DECADES
In case you missed it:
1993 – GOP Health Reform Bill (S-1770) page 238 –
“Individual Mandate – The Secretary shall specifically make recommendations under paragraph (1) regarding requiring an establishment that ALL eligible individuals obtain health coverage through enrollment with a qualified health plan” …
Thus, it was Chuck Grassley (R) who put Individual Mandates IN the Senate Bill and claimed ON FOX that ALL Republicans support it and it would be bipartisan ….
NOW … after the GOP PUT THEIR “Individual Mandate” IN the Senate Bill they yell it is
a) Unconstitutional, and
b) will file law suits – (Something else they claim to be against)
@bluetoe
Cap & Trade has been working since 1990.
DID you know that Cap and Trade has been LAW for since 1990! That’s right, Cap and Trade has been LAW since 1990!
Guess what, the Pro-Corporations – err… critics, of Cap & Trade in 1990 said the same garbage THEN about Cap & Trade that they do NOW about Cap & Trade … AND … “THEY” WERE WRONG …
IF: Corporations have passed the Cap&Trade cost on to the consumer it is NOT NOTICED by the consumer.
@stiffersmomscousin
I must take issue with your comment:
“Failure to comply with the mandate will be treated the same as as failure to pay income tax. The fact there is even the remote possibility of it happening is beyond outrageous.”
Fact is, YOU & I & everyone ALREADY are mandated to BUY insurance – and we have had that mandate to purchase insurance for DECADES.
Medicare Part A:
1. Mandatory that EVERYONE pays into Medicare Part A BEFORE they are eligible to enroll in Medicare A.
2. Mandatory that EVERYONE who turns 65 enroll in Medicare Part A.
Personally, I prefer that EVERYONE be eligible to buy Medicare regardless of age … that is what I support.
@bluetoe
I made a mistake – My comment was really to:
Stiffersmomscousin – not you.
Hey All,
Have been looking for news of Grayson’s medicare buy in plan but must have missed it. Is he going to offer that, or is he backing out the same way Bernie Sanders did? I wish FDL has a menu of updates on topics like this. Anyone know? Thanks.
How do I know when a liberal has no argument but is only writing a hate filled rant?
The first sentence contains one of the following:
a) teabag
b) ‘yeah but Bush ____________’
c) racist
So cap n tax has been law for 20 years and there has benn a mandate to buy insurance for decades.
I guess you have access to that super secret set of laws that nobody else knows about huh?
The corporations are becoming much craftier at fooling the people into believing they have a champion, and President Obama is really good at it. Ultimately, if you look at what he does and not what he says, it is brazenly and tragically apparent he is no peoples champion. Hes a skilled politician with the gift of gab (and it appears to be running thin already)
It seems we all are caught up in this televised (us versus them) red blue football game in which both teams are busily robbing us blind and reaping the benefits for they’re corporate masters as long as they continue to throw them the crumbs.
Its a double kick to the stomach after those horrific Bush years to discover the “change you could believe in” is just another manufactured advertising slogan.