Ben Smith writes that if the health care bill passes with “unified, if grumbly, support on the left, it would seem to vindicate the White House’s fundamental approach, which was to take the left for granted as much as possible and focus on courting marginal members of the Senate.”
He’s absolutely right. As I told Jonathan Weisman of the Wall Street Journal the other day (which he didn’t print), “f#%king r$%ards” worked.
Nobody will take progressives in congress seriously, nor should they. Their threats are idle and they won’t fight for anything they believe in. In the end, they’ll just take turns shaking their fists in futility and alternately sucking so no serious liberal challenge ever emerges to anything.
Whatever Barack Obama wants to do will be the farthest left any piece of legislation gets, and if anyone should try to challenge from the left, the unions and the liberal organizations and party blogs would rise up to condemn them and whip them into line — even if it means completely reversing themselves and devolving into total incoherence. And they’ll be rewarded with carve-outs and corporate money and expensive advertising and personal sinecures for playing their role in facilitating the corporate cash pipeline. Because that’s the job of the ever-expanding veal pen: cover Obama’s left flank and shut down progressive opposition.
Donna Edwards specifically requested that we hold a fundraiser for members of Congress who signed the July 31 pledge to vote against any bill that didn’t have a public option. It was a cheap shakedown that raised $430,000 for little more than a theatrical performance, and now when donors call her office and ask what she plans to do, they’re being told to “check Thomas after she takes her vote.”
I disagree with Ben, however, that this was “smart.” It left the White House triangulating against their own campaign message, depressing the base and risking not only their majority in the House but also down ticket races across the country that could suffer from low turnout in November. The mandate will feed 33 state legislative efforts across the country to revoke it, 24 of which are constitutional amendments (the Missouri House approved theirs yesterday). It will become a campaign issue in states like Florida, where Attorney General Bill McCollum is running for governor and threatening to file suit against it. And nobody will notice if Republicans are lying through their teeth when they deliver John Shadegg’s message. If Rahm truly was the one who wanted to ditch the mandate and go with a stripped down bill, he was right about that. But his plan to run against the “left” to pass this bill on behalf of PhRMA could have serious long term consequences.
Union members across the country are bitter about the way their leadership has sold them out, and now they’re being asked to suck up further hikes in the excise tax. Interests groups are seeing their memberships dissipate. Blog traffic is dropping. The biggest blow to choice since the passage of the Hyde amendment 35 years ago will go down without any opposition from the choice groups, who are soaking up foundation money while choice as an issue dies the death of the anti-handgun initiatives.
Bart Stupak looks to be the only one with the courage of his convictions, and if he’s still willing to cast his vote in exchange for an up-or-down vote on funding each year (which he knows he will eventually win), leadership still might take it. If you hear that Bart has come around for no discernible reason, you’ll know his deal came through.
Look, we had to get here…people had to see it in action. I know I did. I couldn’t imagine that members of congress would hand us all this campaign fodder, all the videos that their opposition can use against them for elections to come, if they had no intention of fighting. But we’re watching a replay of the war supplemental: after 80 progressives signed a letter saying they’d vote against any war funding that didn’t have troop withdrawal provisions, when their vote mattered only 32 remembered that pledge. Magically just under the 39 needed to stop it from passing. This is what we can expect from House progressives in the future. Now that the number who can safely hold their principles and still allow the bill to pass is “zero,” that’s how many have them.
It doesn’t mean that progressive organizing is dead, rather that it can’t depend on unreliable partners or strength of resolve on the part of members of Congress.
Who would take these people seriously ever again? Who would follow them? Who would believe they were capable of leadership? In the end, they’ll toe whatever line Steny Hoyer tells them to…and anything in the interim is just a show.
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Rep. Donna Edwards | “Taking the FDL pledge… the pledge is consistent with what I’ve outlined as important components for any reform to be called reform. Signing up for the pledge now. But, progressives need to hold tight on this one. We cannot allow the language of robust reform to be used to describe something that is not.” |
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Rep. Raul Grijalva | “Our insistence on this is based on real public policy — we don’t want a trigger, we don’t want a public plan that has no network of providers…I think the President respects the fact that these are principled issues we’re taking. This is not petty. I’m not saying “no” just to be spiteful, or petulant. This is a principled vote. It’s a principled decision.” |
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Rep. Keith Ellison | “I will not vote for any healthcare that does not include a public option. I will not do it, that’s a guaranteed no vote and I will not be dissuaded from that.” |
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Rep. Maxine Waters | “For the majority, I think, of our members a public option is a compromise — we wanted single payer as you know, and we backed off because they said that was going to be impossible to do. Again they brought up the more conservative elements, etc. etc., and so we will not support any bill that does not have a public option in it.” |
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Rep. Emanuel Cleaver | “I have said from the very beginning and I will say even to the end that I will not support any health care program that does not have a very strong public option. If there is no way to guarantee from the very beginning that every American will have access to adequate insurance coverage, that I will not support it.” |
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Rep. Lloyd Doggett | “We do need reform of health care so desperately. And I’ve joined in the communications to our leadership,and I’ve said withing the Ways & Means Democratic Caucus — no public plan, no vote for me.” |
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Rep. Bob Filner | “We need to do this now. People say we are rushing it, we have been waiting since 1948 to take health care reform seriously. We cant afford much longer at this rate….So lets get the public health option, and I am not going to vote for any healthcare reform plan that does not include such a public option….We need the guarantee of accessibility on day one. Any trigger as far as I am concerned, kills my support for the bill.” |
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Rep. Jerrold Nadler | “In May, I began whipping my colleagues on the absolute necessity for a public option and convinced many of them to commit, as I have done, to voting against any health reform bill that excludes the public option. This commitment will give us leverage to oppose the insurance company lobbyists, and force inclusion of a robust public option in the developing health insurance reform plan.” |
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Rep. Chellie Pingree | “I’m not going to vote for any House bill that doesn’t include a robust public option without any triggers or coops–that’s a must-have for me.” |
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Rep. Phil Hare | The purpose of having a public option — and that’s why I can’t vote for any bill that doesn’t have one — is that without the public option, people don’t have any place else to go, except for the insurance companies.” |
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Rep. Barney Frank | “I am a strong supporter of single payer, and I do reluctantly accept a full public option as the best we can do. So I am strongly committed to a public option and I will not vote for a bill that does not include a nationwide, genuine public plan … I am not talking now about a trigger, which I greatly oppose.” |
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Rep. Carolyn Maloney | “I have decided I will not vote for a health care bill in the House that doesn’t include a real public option and I Pledge to uphold the public option principles agreed upon by the Progressive Caucus.” |
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Rep. Lynn Woolsey | “Oh I will vote against anything that does not include … and it’s got to be real. I mean, you can call it anything you want … I believe there are enough of us, among the 120 in the tri-caucus and the progressive caucus, that can stop any votes…. Any health care reform that does not include a strong, robust public option for all Americans will not be health care reform.” |
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Rep. Yvette Clarke | Rep. Clarke: There is no health care reform without a robust public option.
Eve Gittelson: You are saying you will not vote for any bill through conference that does not have a public option. Rep. Clarke: That is correct. |
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Rep. John Conyers | “The centerpiece of this reform is a robust Medicare-like public health insurance plan tied to the Medicare provider system. Like many of my colleagues in both the House and Senate, I will oppose any health care reform bill that lacks such a plan. I will also oppose any legislation that seeks to replace a robust public health insurance option with health care cooperatives or which ties the availability of the public option to a trigger mechanism.” |



















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Nailed it.
I used to proudly proclaim myself a “Liberal Democrat.”
I did so all throughout the Reagan and Bush I years when I was working for the war machine.
I did so as I felt there were liberals with the balls to stand up and fight for what is proper and correct for our nation as a society.
I guess it was all a fantasy.
Jane “Who would take these people seriously ever again? Who would follow them? Who would believe they were capable of leadership?”
Will all depend how hard they push and fight for the public option or the expansion of medicare after they push this legislation through. For me that will determine whether I would jump on the bus to unseat any of these folks.
If they prove what they have inferred that this legislation right now is the only way to move forward in our push for REAL reform I am right behind them. They are up against the REAL numbers, the REAL possibility that the Dems might not be in this position to get even seriously faulty legislation through for another decade.
How they push for REAL REFORM after this legislation passes is the REAL STORY. If they do not many Dems running will face surprises next fall.
I plan to keep pushing them hard to honor the statements that many have repeated. The public option/expansion of medicare will be revisited. The timing of that revisiting needs to happen immidiately after this legislation passes.
JANE THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE AND CONTINUE TO DO.
Rahm is nothing but a bantam fascist goebbels rooster. He would have been a capo. I hate that motherfucker and I hate everyone of these spineless progressive fascists in office. And I’m convinced Obama would have okayed the assasination of MLK if it meant keeping him in the little boy’s club.
Will all depend how hard they push and fight for the public option or the expansion of medicare after they push this legislation through.
To quote Jon: “Charlie Brown, Meet The Newest Football”
Ben Smith:
This is true as far as it goes. But I think for our purposes, what has happened is that the congressional liberals have shown themselves to be “marginal members”.
Weiner, back in September:
“And I’m convinced Obama would have okayed the assasination of MLK if it meant keeping him in the little boy’s club.”
Huh? C’mon.
I know people are pissed but, seriously…
Increasingly, I feel that I just come here for the unpleasant truth, but let’s have the truth anyway.
The United States is nothing more than a real life national version of “Punk’d.”
We will be watching, listening and pushing. Many will pay the big price this fall if they fail to revisit and pass the public option or expansion of medicare as many of them have stated
They’ll get to the public option right after they do the NAFTA fix.
What I don’t get, is why the liberal community here & elsewhere expected anything more from progressives in Congress. I’ve made the daily calls pleading for a PO, but I’ve never made the donations – I’ve always realized that when the time came, they would follow the legislation preferred by the adm.
I work as an administrator of a rural health clinic in NC, I know this bill is not enough, but truly, I never expected the insurance companies would be eliminated via single payer (though Medicare for all is what I would prefer). I also knew the PO would not be adopted, sure, lots of lip service has been given by the adm & dems in congress, but really, they were never going to cop to “government run” anything.
The time to fight and push for a public option is now past. They have failed. Utterly.
Sounds too Glen Beckistan to me.
I went ballistic this morning to some woman who called me wanting me to donate $100 to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. I told her I wasn’t giving one more dime and planned to stay home in November on election day.
She was horrified. Not vote! Let the Republicans win! Couldn’t I just donate $10. She said Obama and the Democrats in Congress had their hands tied by the mean ole Republicans and their Wall Street supporters.
That’s when I lost it. I told her she was insulting my intelligence, that the Democrats had taken more during the last election cycle from Wall Street than the Republicans, and that’s why Wall Street, not Main Street is getting all the help.
I told her to tell the campaign committee that not only was I not giving them another red cent, I will be staying home in November.
Then I apologized for blistering her ears, and hung up.
A year ago, I would have never, ever believed Democrats would play their supporters the way the have. I don’t know what good can come of this other than that the corporate Ds and faux Ds and DINOS and spineless Ds have been smoked out. We know who they are now. Never again will I vote for anyone who simply has a D after their name.
BTW: Didja all see this little nugget from TPM? DK is now actively whipping yes votes.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/from-progressive-holdout-to-whipping-health-care—-how-dennis-kucinich-is-helping-dems.php?ref=fpblg
It’s human nature to cling to hope, any hope, but you can’t be serious. As long as this Congress exists as it stands today, there will never be any Medicare for all or public option of any kind. Obama made a deal to prevent it – that’s all. That deal does not expire just because they pass this bill. That was the deal – no public plan. It will not happen.
Oh, they will pretend, huff and puff and play act, but it will never happen.
Agreed. The momentum has shifted on the Dem side to the next corporate bailout, and on the Republican side to dismantling this bill just for blood sport, even though it’s already a corporatist’s wild dream.
Third party, anyone? At the moment I can’t imagine ever voting for a Democrat again, at least not for national office.
As you point out, the Obama admin has spent its first year backing away from all the talking points and platform planks that inspired people to believe in the candidate in the first place, and in that process managed to create a set of legislative and policy outcomes that will enable serious and legitimate criticisms. They’ve accomplished this all while hamstringing their own defense by muddying the waters of what makes good progressive policy and depressing the activist voting base in the process.
Triangulation is a short term tactic. But slowly destroys your credibility as you edge closer and closer to your opposition.
Obama and the DLC, by failing to enact programs which actually reflect a liberal policy perspective are dramatically undermining prospects for the Democratic party broadly and for the individual candidates specifically. But that is a slower death. Only now are we truly reaping what was sown with the Clintonian triangulation.
Costs of government will actually go up as we subsidize structurally unsound businesses like too-big-to-fail banks and health insurers as levels of government service fall. Ironically, promoting half-hearted efforts and former Republican proposals like this will create evidentiary support for conservative talking points (“‘liberal’ programs don’t work”), and damage actual liberal positions for years to come.
Ignoring the congressional liberal wing was a short term cynical victory, the costs will come later…after Rahm and Obama are gone.
I would feel more positive about this if Obama and the democratic leadership had given any indication that they follow through on their promises, but after the past year I feel that my inner cynic has been vindicated. Yes, this bill works if democrats get serious about passing substantive fixes in the future, but I’ve heard so many promises amount to nothing that I just can’t bring myself to believe anything these people say.
It’s hard to get pictures of whores in broad daylight but you did.
You think that woman doing Spitzer was making some bucks, these clowns put her measly thousands of dollars an hour fee to shame.
you are not alone in this thinking.
i dont believe the folks who lied to me, but i would like to believe in something.
i expect there will be some efforts, that i will support, to get justice from the insurance companies.
I dont very much like OB gving away that fight. It is just not logical to demonize them and then not do one or all of these:
a public option
medicare buy in
anti-trust exemption ended
90% medical loss ration or MORE
national insurance rate authority
where is the COBRA extension?
where is flat or, at most, 2X rate brackets?
I concur. HCR is very probably over for this session, and after the ass-whuppin’ the party is likely to take in November, the possibility of adding any embellishments will have gone glimmering. Spin that one, Rahm.
Personally, I’d like to see the Speaker thrown out in November, even if the seat goes to a wingnut.
If Obama
wouldn’tcouldn’t pass what he promised when he was holding a royal flush, just imagine the gridlock after the cards get dealt again in November. Even if they really intended to pass substantive fixes, they won’t be able to. Your inner cynic is right: do not believe anything these people say. Ever again.Dear Jane Hamsher,
Do read John Jay Chapman, Practical Agitation, 1900. I’ll give FDL another contribution when you do.
Leo Wong
chaperone?
edit: no chaperone on this thread, excellent.
We’ve reluctantly taken a ride on the Democrat’s magic bus and got left off in the middle of a vast desert.
what now? – but let’s be wide eyed about it, please.
Good Morning Jane and Firedogs -
our own Kelly Canfield offers a fabulous (and simple !) suggestion on what to do with our current disaffection.
very short diary – let’s go on over and rec it up !
You firebagger kill the billers have lost. You will never be taken seriously again. You’ll all have to learn to deal with reality. So long losers!
When you can offer them votes, that is value. But after the votes are no longer needed they turn to who can offer them money, that is value for them.
The republicans going tea party crazy actual works for them because they know that we won’t vote for the insane.
The power of current money in this battle is the big factor. Too bad we couldn’t get big business like automakers to fight for universal health care. They were too busy going out of business because of health care costs.
Many of us predicted both the strategy (go with the Blue Dogs and peel off “progressives” as needed) and its likely success. The warning signs were all over the place. The passive acquiescence of the removal of single payer from the debate, the failure of anyone to really enunciate what a public option, let alone a robust public option, would contain, and the failure of the laughingly called progressive caucus to actually lead on any of this.
This post is a shining example of exactly what makes the internet and blogosphere so lethal to the puffed up gasbags who think they can say something one day, do the opposite the next, and the rubes won’t notice.
That attitude is very much an elite behavior. They think that as long as union leaderships and the Establishment-oriented liberal groups that make up the veal pen are held in check, they have nothing to worry about. It is all about one elite dealing with another. Many of those on Jane’s list will probably get away with this because they are in solid Blue districts and the opportunity to primary them in 2010 is largely gone. The Democratic party as a whole will not. It is going to get creamed, deservedly, in November.
But for those on Jane’s list, what shall we do about them? They have shown themselves to be the hacks they are. We should not work with them. We should seek to primary them in 2012. When this healthcare disaster explodes, they will seek to dump it on Obama. We should make sure to hang this around their necks for eternity. When the time came to sell out, some came running. These are them.
Rogues Gallery – “..any group of shady characters”. I like your use of this format – it allows faces to be connected to these folks. While I might wish for Leen to be correct, I think Bluetoe2@9 nailed it. I lean towards Rahm as Kutcher.
The fix was in from the beginning. Obama did his tap dance, never really supporting the public option in the first place. The strongest his rhetoric got was when his press secretary said, “The President’s preference is for a public option.” What a weasel word — preference.
If the populism that swept Obama into office can be corporatized this easily, we are truly a doomed nation.
What? What was that roxsteady?
The bottom line. The politicians do not fear the people because there is truly nothing to fear.
agreed
Yep, we got played and health care industry is now on taxpayer welfare.
Everything is on schedule, please move along.
Thanks Jane and all the other at this site and the few other sites that did not roll over.
IMO, they want to lose their majority so that they can continue to support the status quo while blaming someone else for their failures. Seems like that is their plan of attack moving forward. Sickening.
My hopes rest with Stupak ?!?
yes-in-fucking-deed!
Yup. And we’re fools if all we do is keep sending them new “progressive” Democrats to assimilate into the borg.
Stupak said a great quote the other day. Cracked me up.
“I don’t listen to nuns.”
Emanuel Cleaver has gone from standing up for the public option to whipping against it to pass the Senate bill.
As I said to his KC office staffer, from one pastor to another, Rev. Cleaver, I am deeply disappointed.
Democrats never disappoint in disappointing.
your sorry cheerleading ass will be back over here November 3rd, bleating about us costing you your majorities. I’ll be waiting
…assimilate into the borg. Heh. Well put.
our little universe of hope has shrunk significantly, we’ve been marginalized.
it’s third party time. Greens, Socialists, Independents, students, are the only hope to build a movement, without one we’re just howling at the moon.
It’s the power of the presidency. And Obama is following in Bush footsteps making it more powerful. The power of the Congress has become a myth.
Just throwing this out three: Will we be doing our causes a favor by further enfeebling the Congress?
Assuming for the moment that Ben Smith is right, then the question is whether Obama’s go to guy Rahm has won a battle while losing the war. Not only has this process created a rift that the Ds are currently unwilling to acknowledge exists but they have energized the right and allowed them to create a false populist message.
While the kool-aide drinkers and converted Republicans might imagine that a show of power is the same as success they fail to accept that Will Rogers was an optimist when he said, “Democrats never agree on anything, that’s why they’re Democrats. If they agreed with each other, they would be Republicans”. Now they have increasingly displease cats to rely upon to get out the vote and donate in the upcoming election cycle. They may get the corporate donations, for a job well done, but translating that to votes this time might make the NAFTA effect look like a real success story.
The Progressive Caucus and the Black Caucus clearly don’t deserve their names.
I propose we rename them The Chickenhead Caucus.
Perfect.
http://www.entertonement.com/clips/vrkxykznkf–So-long-suckerYosemite-Sam-Looney-Tunes-
Blog traffic is dropping.
You can say that again. I used to read 10-15 “progressive” blogs several times a day. Now it’s down to FDL & Corrente.
All Progressives in Name only Not a one has the Stones to lead. In the end they just bend over for big business same as everyone else.
Thank you FDL for speaking truth to power. Unfortunately it will take more then that, and this struggle is not for the faint of heart. If you get frustrated and stay home, and stop your involvement in progressive matters, the Republicans will reagn again and we can look forward to more years of stolen elections, illegal wars, torture, war criminals, unfunded government mandates, right-wing judges, wire tapping, extraordinary rendition, unchecked military spending, crumbling infrastructure, roll backs of individual freedoms that we take for granted and so on.
If you want to create real change, start running Progessives in Dem primaries for school boards, state reps and senators, City councils, judges and other important down ballot elections. That is what grassroots organizations do. Just by blogging 24/7 in an echo chamber has not worked. Nothing is as esay as it appears. Don’t give up the good fight. An amateur boxer does not turn pro by going after the Champ and getting his ass kicked, he starts with manageable opponents and works his way up. There has not been a viable progressive movement in the country for many years. So let this be the beginning of a renewed effort. Maybe as a result of the latest setbacks we can begin to organize a more effective movement that can reach workers, students, ethnic groups, etc.
That’s the only place my time and energy and money goes from this point forward.
I believe you can add the name of Carol She Porter to the above list.
Random thoughts.
Just wait till the average voter figures out what “31 million more insured” really means. I really don’t think the mandate and IRS enforcement is going to go over well and believe that the mandate could very well be the Dems “waterloo”.
If more people covered is important enough to swallow a blatantly corporate-friendly bill, why are the Dems and MSM ignoring the millions more who will still remain uncovered?
Why does the MSM bend over backwards to trumpet the aforementioned 31 million more insured while ignoring the mandate and enforcement?
And why-oh-why is pretty much everybody ignoring the revelation that the WH cut a deal to quash the PO?!? This one baffles me.
If George Bush had done the exact things done by Obama, Dems would be screaming bloody murder. But then again, these are the same Dems who promised to defund the wars back in ’06.
PINO. Not sure if that sounds more like a male member or a wine.
Amen Preacher’s Kid ! my own thoughts, sentiments, (and frankly, emotions) have been coalescing around this thought Jane. FDL gave us all a good long look at what we are truly dealing with – and although it is maddening, (and the dissonance of our fellow travelers is stupefying) we now have a reality based lay of the land.
as Baba Rum Raisin is fond of saying – First you have to know you’re in Prison before organizing a breakout
The president is essentially operating as “King” now?
We need to be the new Thomas Paine’s then and not allow a ruler-king to reign over America!!!!
Most excellent, Leo Wong, thank you.
I hope that there may be those who will take the time and consideration to read what you have placed before them.
DW
Have they won the battle and lost the war?
Who really cares, what they lost was my vote….
Obama can take over habitate for humanity from Jimmy Carter…
At least the Repugs will lower MY TAX BILL….
CIGNA has spoken.
After the primaries are over. Because I plan to vote for the farthest-left Ds that are available.
The oligarchy was exceptionally clever this time around, fooling us into thinking that all those Democrats we (s)elected would actually implement the Democratic Party platform. It remains to be seen how long we will continue to participate in this charade we call democracy in America.
Why vote for any Ds at all?
Thanks Very much for sharing this link. I’ve passed it on to others.
Market down, Wellpoint skyrocketing (upper right).
http://www.google.com/finance?client=news&q=wlp
they’ll just become assimilated by the DC Borg, PJE.
Seems like we were just getting to know you – or maybe not.
We’ll just have to declare a winner in November. If the Ds win Team Obama wins. If not then the Rs win. Since the Ds are bound and determined to prove Nader was right it looks like the rest of us have to individually figure out how to be represented since the Ds apparently refuse the task.
I disagree with Ben, however, that this was “smart.” It left the White House triangulating against their own campaign message, depressing the base and risking not only their majority in the House but also down ticket races across the country that could suffer from low turnout in November. The mandate will feed 33 state legislative efforts across the country to revoke it, 24 of which are constitutional amendments (the Missouri House approved theirs yesterday). It will become a campaign issue in states like Florida, where Attorney General Bill McCollum is running for governor and threatening to file suit against it. And nobody will notice if Republicans are lying through their teeth when they deliver John Shadegg’s message. If Rahm truly was the one who wanted to ditch the mandate and go with a stripped down bill, he was right about that. But his plan to run against the “left” to pass this bill on behalf of PhRMA could have serious long term consequences.
My Bold its smart when Dems betray themselves and depress their own base? Unions and if the anti abortion stuff gets through women and young men will desert us next election. Along with the 10% unemployed and newly homeless.
If Healthcare was suppose to be a win that would save the President then why are there
?
Its hard to say passing a law is a win when you got 33 states trying to unpass your law.
Long Term Consequences yes the GOP is polling less than the Dems who are below 50% last I checked I think after the next election we form a third party.
Do you think that if Progressive’s, as a block, demand movement on Grayson’s bill with the caveat that if it goes nowhere we’ll stay home in November, we’d have any effect? Are we now so marginalized that we are not to be taken seriously at all?
take that over to Kos, my posting privileges over at the Orange-gutan have been curtailed.
Jane! Thanks for steering a whole chunk of the progressive movement towards a new, more productive stage–independence from the Democratic Party.
Party platforms are dead. As Jane said yesterday, the old left/right thinking is dead.
We are moving into an era of little d democracy vs. Corporate Governance.
looks that way, doesn’t it,- Citizens United et al?
FWIW, I really think that this community at FDL will determine whether this POS, if it passes, will be interpreted as a victory or a defeat. And I think the WH knows and fears that.
This ain’t over by any means.
Not that it matters to the powers that (temporarily) be, but I am no longer “of the left” OR the right. America is broken. I shall build a new world for friends and family in my heart and live the rest of my life–I’m 64–emotionally, spiritually, and financially free of this dying vale of tears.
We are not meant to be slaves.
The universe is loving and abundant.
We already have everything we need.
Do NOT despair, just walk away into the light.
And yes, I really mean every word.
If I am correct this, or one like it, is being sent by the Feds….campaigning by the government is not allowed is it…or do they not give a sweet diddly?
Wish it were so, but I think you’re dreaming.
Happily I’ve never been smirched by the orange shithouse, so I can’t…
: )
Thats suppose to be Whine:)
like its politically Impossible, We can’t stop the war we don’t have the votes. If elected President I will support the Public Option. Lefties don’t understand politics Dems always have to Compromise to get laws passed.
And you know what’s really ironic about the outcome of this HCR “debate?” The money injected to screw up the process was relative chump change compared to the Big Gun Cash that is coming out to stop meaningful reform of the “financial services industry”. Get out the Vaseline. You’re gonna need it.
And hey Chris Dodd? Enjoy your cushy, post Senate Wall Street gig, you sleazeball hack.
You can simply register a new account there with a throwaway e-mail address.
I’m on my fourth, I believe.
Oh, please don’t go! Shane! Shane…..
They’re all going to take us for granted, even us here at FDL, at least until after the election. Frankly I don’t think it even matters at this moment in time; gridlock serves the status quo. Hopefully another couple years of depression and unemployment will rouse the rabble, but I’ve been wrong about that before!
Well done.
I sent him some cash.
I will have to call and try to get it back.
Something I’ve been thinking about. Perhaps someone could help me here. Is it not Congress’ job to enact legislation the people want, and to be a check on the President’s power, and not to enact legislation that the President wants? When did Congress get elected to support the President’s plans, any President?
disappointed, yes. there is plenty of work to do in promoting progressive ideas in the age of Obama.
that being said, reading this and the comments reminds me how sad reductionist bitterness can be.
was a presidential candidate, – ought to open anyones eyes as to what voting really is about in America. Democracy it ain’t.
They broke a signed pledge stating unequivocal support for a public option to be in this reform legislation, but you trust that they’ll be pursuing such a thing post facto?
Moreover, what would even be the point of that? What bargaining leverage do they have introducing it separately? They don’t apparently have the will or the votes to do it now, and they’ll lack the capacity to exploit the leadership’s stalwart desire to pass Healthcare Reform™.
If I’m to accept your hypothesis that they’re not entirely untrustworthy, I’m left to observe that they’re just magnificently stupid. I’m not seeing how that improves the situation.
I hope someday our paths cross, and we’re on opposite sides of a negotiation.
That’s the aim. How do we do it.
Random thoughts: Look to Gingrich. He created a vigorous candidate pool from the Reagan cleansed GOP, united them in a well articulated ideology, brilliantly named it “Contract for America” and got them elected to Congress. Republicans even in the South were not always this mean, nor this ignorant. Gingrich was the spokesman for those who made them that way. In the south at least a lot of the attraction was the resentment of the wealthy and in particular the Liberal intellectual elitists..
In a republic, which we are now according to Texas, the Congress can do any damn thing they please.
Hey…no trick questions. Heh…
That sounds lovely. I mean it. I’m envious of people who are able to rise above all of this. I aspire to be one someday. Thank you.
What’s that new fireworks lotion stuff they advertise for the pleasure of both partners? I might try that. Mix it up a bit.
Rome finally met the enemy it could not defeat. Itself.
WashingtonDC has a Congress,a WH and a Supreme Court and the three branches of this federal government were intended to work in ways they simply are not doing.
The money is too deep and too worked into the process. The money politcs that infest Congress and the WH are a stinkpile of subversion and wanton abuse. Does not matter whether it is the Twiddle Dee Democrats or the Tweedle Dum Republicans. Both R and D Party organizations are failing to do what is required or needed. Sweep them both out together.
Take out K Street. Take out the PACs and bag men.
Switch over to 100% public campaign funding. Limit the electioneering blather and media $$ slather. Remove the R and D election barriers to third,fourth and fifth party growth or no party contests as well.
Who is going to pass this stuff?
The same 535 Americans who could not do the right thing with this HCR.
That leads us to other means. Like pitchforks and torches.
Revolutions happen for reasons. The best ones for best of reasons.
We can’t change history but we can make history.
Which is how our country got started. Nothing is so corrupt or rotted that a good revolution cannot correct to some small or large degree.
We can vote them in all we want but as Jane lays it out above they have to respect us enough to honor our doing so. These jackals did not.
Barack Obama has done a rotten bait and switch on us. Despise him for doing so too. What was and is so badly needed he sold out on in a bad way. No honor or respect can be found in what he did to us. Lied to get into the WH and then moved far to right on his politics. Never would have gained the WH had he been upfront with us. Really despise this charlatan.
Hopes were high. The fall down has been painful. Very painful.
Yes we are not taken seriously for months since August we have debated Healthcare we read, research argued the issues shown up at town halls.
We think National Healthcare and drug prices the same as Canada are the best deal as far as cost and living longer goes.
The Obama plan protects drug maker profits and is a bailout of the Insurance industry. The Obama plan taxes the middle class during a 10% unemployment recession.
The rich got richer during the Bush years with the Bush tax cuts tax them!
And yes since we do not matter unless I move to a district with where the Dem did not vote for this bill well next election I’ll probably stay home.
LOL. Yea I go over the top sometimes. I don’t know about y’all but I love being called a firebagger. I understand how Andrew Jackson felt when they called him a jackass. Well fellow firebaggers we just got a big gun to join us. The largest advocacy group for hispanic rights has just came out against this bill. Hell yea!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/18/nations-largest-hispanic_n_503919.html
This will depress voters come fall, but I expect the WH and the DNC to really play up the crazy of the GOP. I would expect the WH embracing all “moderate” republicans so that teabaggers win primaries and then fear moderates and liberals into voting for some corporatist dem. The Charlie Crist campaign in Florida is a good example of this strategy.
They cant win on ideals and governing as they said they would, but they can win by pointing at a GOP boogeyman. I fully expect Sarah! or some other wingnut to be their nominee in 2012. This is playing with fire, because if fear doesnt work then we are left with some real nutters in government. For my money look out for Mitch Daniels of Indiana, he would be a fairly sober GOP candidate that could easily beat Obama, but thats assuming the GOP wont pick crazy, and thats a big if.
Just the thought of descending into that cesspool of ignorance and frothing partisanship again makes me nauseous. Thanks.
Joan Walsh over at Salon showed herself to still be an active cardcarrying member of the veal pen in her gushing support of Kucinich’s sellout.
It’s funny how the wealthy Republics are, to this day, able to easily manipulate the South without ever delivering more than tokens to them.
Wish I could agree with you. But nope. We are now so marginalized that we will have to pay to get on Maddow even. (I hope that is hyperbole). But my point is as far as the Democratic Party of Obama and the MSM are concernedwhat we think or say is meaningless.
Yes we did loose.
How’s your Health Insurance going for you now? Do you seriously believe the Health Insurance System will look after your health?
Want to see what this has done to Progressives, real progressives? Blog traffic. Oh ya.
http://crooksandliars.com/digby/live-chat-connie-saltonstall-progressive-cha
If you scroll through, you read the names. Almost ALL the posters are not progressives but Blog owners. I’ve never seen that before. No questions from hopeful readers at all. Just all the blog owners questioning a new candidate. It’s actually pathetic.
I read that. One less blog to waste my time on (except for GG; can’t imagine why he stays there). The comments were quite disheartening as well – lots of koolaid on the menu.
Jane, all you have done is to vindicate the notion that if you actually want Congress to do something for you, you cannot trust the “progressive Democrats.” When you say that:
What you’re really saying is that your strategy of depending upon unreliable Democrats has been invalidated and that nobody currently in Congress represents your perspective.
All that is fine — nobody in Congress represents my perspective either. But if you’re going to cling to the Democratic Party, Jane, you might as well go back to the “lesser of two evils” arguments, because if nobody has the guts to drop the Democrats, it DOES mean that progressive organizing is dead.
At any rate, I figure that you’re probably one of the few who would break the mold. After the second crash, nobody is going to care about your arguments that “the American system doesn’t support that sort of thing.” And I mean nobody. Here in CA we have a Republican frontrunner in the governor’s race who is promising a 10% tax cut to a state which will get rid of maybe 40% of its teachers come September. If you want to punish both parties, then, there has to be something outside.
You should just do like I do. Make gobs of money on your political cynicism. I’ve been trading health insurance company stocks based on the political winds. Up and down, up and down; based on nothing more than the murmurs that come out of Washington. So far I’m up ~285%. More than enough to pay for my mandate penalties.
The thing that concerns me about this, is that if I’m able to do it, the people in Washington actually releasing the leaks and pressers are even more capable of doing so.
They don’t need bribes from industry when they can manipulate the market on their own.
Always smart to be proactive. Heh.
So Mighty Jane.
What’re ya gonna do about it?
Maybe if progressives and liberals were out marching in the streets and raising hell like Tea Party morons the movement would get taken seriously.
Instead, the left spends time signing petitions, sending emails, and holding ‘virtual’ marches.
John Cole is right. There are plenty on the so-called “activist” left who don’t get what it means to actually be an activist.
If you’re not going to change and expand your tactics then I am not sure why you expect any different outcomes.
All this may come to pass, and Obama will still be in the WHite House in 2011.
Best luck to you and yours.
: )
hear, hear!
I wonder if we can get dems to do what’s needed by voting for MORE of them and thereby removing their “we can’t work with them” cover of insane republicans and blue dogs.
This might put the lie to all the process crap they use to justify their spinelessness.
Obama very well might be the first African American President to have African American riots in his hometown if this keeps up.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/14/AR2010011404085.html
Michigan, Illinois and Ohio are all in the top ten electoral states win all ten of those states the other 40 do not matter.
20% or more African American unemployment plus an angry Left, plus the young voters in Ted’s district who did not come out to vote like they did for Ted or Obama?
The Dems have created a Perfect Storm.
It is very unfortunate. The goal of the bill was always “Obama.” In fact, at the end here, the biggest pitch given to undecided, including Dennis, was essentially, “Save the President.”
Pass the bill, no matter what’s in it, no matter what process you use, no matter how many ‘deals’ you have to give away, no matter who it pisses off, no matter what the polls say, no matter how many people on both sides don’t like it–just pass it.
Can you imagine?
What many don’t realize is the chance of a lifetime has been blown. The chance to do a real reform measure with single payer or even some semblance of actual reform is now gone for decades.
Fix it? Considering the number of Democrats, even by the most optimistic Democratic estimates, will be far less than there are now, no “fixes” or enhancements are going to be possible.
Fate gave Democrats a golden chance, once in a lifetime, and it was blown.
Mostly due to the ego of one man.
Well, this is the next few years. Cave, cave, cave.
I think we need to be ready for the wheels to come off. The health insurance companies, having won a great victory, are going to overreach. The economy is not going to be fixed.
2012 promises to be an interesting year.
Beg to differ on this point. These pols view us as an endless ATM they can always go to for money.
I forget exactly what Nancy Kassebaum said about pols but it was something akin to “whores”.
Markos is going to read this and turn you in to DHS. You’re obviously subversive and need to be purged. All hail Obama and the party!
I say this about 60% cynical and 40% really concerned.
The bottom line to me is that government today in the US is a branch of business, and the elected officials the employees. The only difference is that to work for Corp XXX, you get hired, to work foe the totality of Corps, you get elected.
And we pay their salaries and perks.
Deal with it!
I have the perfect theme tune for the next Democratic national campaigns. To be used at conferences, introducing bigwig speeches, etc. etc.
It fits so well. It would also suit Rethugs, especially with that title ‘Dance of the Cuckoos’.
Salon.com has exactly two decent regular-contributors; Juan Cole and Glenn Greenwald. The rest of that site’s content is barely a hair above Entertainment Tonight.
Jane Hamsher
Holding their feet to the fire is our only accountability. Nice post.
I wish ol’ Moonbeam would get going on his campaign in earnest. It isn’t enough just to announce, FGS. I hear Meg ads all the time…
In other words, Rahm put Democrats in a lose-lose situation. Rahm’s “f#%king r$%ards” (courting marginal members of the Senate while taking the left for granted as much as possible) worked only in the sense that Democrats have sacrificed their political capital in the bizarre and twisted determination of the party leadership to betray the party’s core principles and base. They were bound to lose if they passed this POS. And they were bound to lose if they passed nothing. Good work, Rahm.
After this is passed, but before the implications of this bad joke are over, everyone will see that Rahm was the “f#%king r$%ard” all along.
Jane, thank you so much for shining light on these charlatans in progressive’s clothing.
Do you think Donna Edwards alone was responsible for duping us into what turned out to be a cheap shakedown, or do you think others suggested it and encouraged her to do it?
I’m one who gave up on this and decided to stop donating, keeping up with the fight, etc. because I didn’t believe these guys would come through. The only fight I’m in for now is changing campaign finance and getting the corporations out of congress. The Supreme Court has made that look impossible…does anyone have any ideas about where to begin that fight? I think a lot of people could be encouraged to join that battle, even though it looks hopeless now.
Setting aside the futility of voting for Democrats in general . . . the next election is going to be a referendum on stupidity on all sides and there’s no way more Democrats are going to come out ahead. I suspect we will have two years of teabagger hijinks and then all bets are off — except that the oligarchy will choose the acceptable candidates once more and we can play along, or not. Until we can all agree that this two-party system is hopelessly broken, we’re doomed to have these same conversations over and over and over.
I think a large part of the lesson of the past year is that this is the outcome “that they wanted”. Certainly it is what Obama wanted. So, having more of them doesn’t change the calculus.
More will simply be more of the same. The change can’t really come from the members themselves, it has to be more of a change in the landscape outside the Congress to which they respond.
It is appalling.
We in Georgia today have a governor who is cutting school funding and Medicaid by about 10%., has eliminated homestead exemption tax, plans to impose a bed tax on every hospital, charge sales tax on all non-profit hospital goods and services AND
the Gainesville Times Op Ed by Dick Yarbrough (a right winger all the way)
this is what pains me the most.
Can Obama expect to win young voters who deserted Ted’s seat if the Anti Abortion bit passes? Does Anyone think Obama will fix unemployment by election time? Us the Left what is Obama likely to do to get us out to vote for him?
The unemployed the newly homeless what does the GOP offer them after all not all the unemployed or newly homeless are White the Tea Party is not for them, not as long as the racists keep going.
But not 2012
Presidents don’t ok assinations, they just hear about it later. The CIA wouldn’t have it any other way.
It seems we need to go a different direction than anyone in congress. I didn’t think it was this bad. I don’t think Rachael gets it either. Shadegg was saying that he would support a public option if pushed against a wall to choose between a public option and a personal mandate. He knows how to get elected.
I’d like to see Koz or Nate Silver spin this passing this bill as a win for the Democrats.
This. ++
Yep, I hear ya!
There’s the openly corporatist party and the in-the-closet corporatist party.
What gets me is the True Believer mentality of many voters. He or She has a R/D after his name, therefore, I must vote this way. Like it means anything anyway.
But my point is that if the majority of dems was greater, there’s no place for the people in this post to hide. Point taken about voting against stupidity, though.
Come on folks, really what did you expect? The Villagers play for cash not our silly whining. Can we match the $$ that the HC Industry or Wall st. or the MIC etc et al. ( the Fortune 500) can muster, can we lobby these klowns 24/7 and ply them with $$, vacations, whores, jobs for their pals and family? Do any of u really think these creatures do all this for their Congressional salary and benefits, as sweet as they appear to the rest of us? We all of us together mean less to these punks then they’re nice cozy DC jobs and they all figure we will vote for them anyway when the time comes, because what choice do we really have? Yes, it’s a cynical shitty deal but it’s the only one we have right now isn’t it? That’s how they think and what has changed to make them think any differently?
The financial elite ” wants to place the full burden on the working class through historic reductions in basic social programs such as Medicare and Social Security, new taxes on consumption, long-term high unemployment and continuous wage-cutting.”
Bernanke called for an austerity plan, and austerity is what we’ll get.
All those people will probably just stay home, and who can blame them?
Dennis K was on Democracy Now! defending his position getting grilled from Amy and Juan. Ralph Nader was also on too.
These people who betrayed you all have one thing in common. They are Democrats. If you replace them with other Democrats you will be another year older and deeper in debt. Wake up. The Party can not be reformed from the inside. Bolt the party. There is life outside the suicidal game of red state/blue state.
Seeing all those smiling mugs of the spineless “progressives” makes me glad that I won’t be giving ANY of them a dime.
Hear, hear.
I’m not sure where you are going with this…explicky, please?
Naming names and shining light on them is the right thing to do.
Thank you, Jane.
This is OT, from emails just received from right wing family members. One of the few thing I think I can agree with them on.
I still remember watching the video of Donna Edwards saying “I won’t sell you out” during her campaign.
Thanks Jane. Great post. I’ll add another one to your list:
http://twitter.com/markos/status/6679156993
breathtaking!
Without Donna Edwards, there would have been no letter, and no donations from us for them to betray. Donna Edwards did us all a favor, she showed us exactly who the “progressives” in congress and the WH really are.
Good job, Ms Edwards. Good luck holding on to that seat.
Maybe the one good thing in this is that, as Dennis is forced to explain himself again and again, Americans now get to see the left’s anger with Obama for pushing this pos.
Before this, the narrative was left-right, for-against.
I don’t see any way to stop this madness except by letting the Democratic Party apparatus completely destroy itself. It’s well on the way to doing that and we are going to have to find a new direction for our efforts.
In November I will vote for my representative and no other Dem. Feinstein and Boxer have become really useless – I might forgive them if they went after Holy Joe.
“No politician from either party at either of the hearings challenged Bernanke’s statements on bank regulatory reform or bankers’ pay. As MarketWatch reported Wednesday, “The tone of the House hearing was overwhelmingly cordial toward Bernanke.” At the Senate hearing on Thursday, committee chairman Dodd thanked Bernanke for saving the banking system and told the Fed chairman he was “impressed by your leadership.”
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/feb2010/bern-f27.shtml
And now, as someone pointed out in another thread, we can look forward to “entitlement” reform. More hippie punching!
Wonder how many Dem pols will cave re: destroying Soc Sec and Medicare.
As she’ll need more than luck, should we be watching who contributes to her campaign? Those contributions should be cast as the payoff for her selling out her supposed principles, no?
This sell out – vote switching, is why you should NEVER send these politicians any money until AFTER they have voted.
The Mods are fucking up. They always rein me in if I get close to talking like that. But shooter is right on the money.
It’s too easy to whine about how hard you work for the “progressive cause”, as if someone voted you the sovereign leader of the Progressive’s cause….You want hard? Put down your laptop and run for office. Let’s see how much fun it is to “represent the people” while fighting off Jane Hamsher on one end and Grover Norquist on the other end — only to earn the right to fight off Hamsher and Norquist TOGETHER!..Let’s stop with the self-pity and bitterness. You want ‘change’? Make it happen where it counts – with the electorate. That’s why the President decided to be a politician after being a community organizer. Who knows…maybe one day you’ll get 70 million votes!
I know I probably sound like a broken record, but: oligarchy oligarchy oligarchy.
Anyone who hasn’t already should read about the iron law of oligarchy and then think very long and hard about supporting any member of the political status quo.
I expect you will follow that closely and keep us up to date.
And I would Nathan, but I lack the risk capital…
Oh hell yes.
Are you offering me a job? Are there benefits? ;->
Obama became a pol because he wanted power, not because he wanted to help people. C’mon, man.
How many members of Congress got elected solely with Progressive votes? None. How many represent totally progressive districts or states? Same answer. I say we got more than our numbers deserved and surely more than we paid for with our contributions from this legislation. We had high expectations, unrealistic expectations and that’s why we are so disappointed. To get to have the agenda we want, we have to gain more power and influence. This equates to money. Who wins in the radio wars? Conservatives outnumber Progressives by a lot. Who controls the media and therefore ideas? Money and big business. We shouldn’t give up. The battle is just starting. Thank God for the internet, or we wouldn’t have any effect on politics the way things have been going.
We need to organize, work hard and gather all the money we can. With the latest Supreme Court fiasco it will be even harder as the upper class with their corporations will have even more influence.
If we want influence we have to be influential. Stamping our feet and having a tantrum will get us nowhere.
Yes & yes.
I am giving no money and no time to POS sellout ‘Progressives’. I am not a fool.
Lmao.
Are you aware of the concentration of wealth in this country? Trying to come up with more money than they have is a losing proposition. A general strike is a much better tactic.
I agree that people will not like the mandate. But there is nothing that can be done about it. Who will repeal it? Not the Republicans. They might run on it, but a steady flow of cash from the insurance companies to the Republicans will ensure that they never do. Maybe they can take a lesson from the Democrats and tell their constituents that they didn’t have the votes, but maybe next election cycle, if their constituents vote for them again, they’ll be sure to get it done.
I don’t see much stamping of feet here, I see us stomped.
Bullshit.
No one here’s interested in your DNC/OFA-approved message.
Thank you, Markos!
Jane, I believe you and all who support and work with you did the best that was humanly possible working within the established system. Your efforts were heroic, and you are a hero. Nobody can take that away from you.
HOWEVER, we now see clearly that the inside game is a game that can never be won by so-called outsiders such as we. So, I ask you earnestly whether this might be the time to consider taking a whole new tack to advance the interests of the people against the big corporations who clearly run the whole show from top to bottom.
I appreciate that you personally have much at stake–you’ve managed to become almost mainstream. Wold you risk that credibility now by turning to a different strategy, i.e., using your name reccognition to reach out directly to the angry masses?
We’ve had many spirited debates here about whether extra-systemic tactics are the way to go. I must believe there are enough angry people out there that they could be mobilized into the streets with a People vs. Big Corporations message. We could really shake up the system by sending a clear message that we will not be orderly anymore.
Our enemies count on our passivity and civility. Let’s surprise and scare them. Your thoughts?
Markos caught a wave and has surfed pretty long on it already. I think he has revealed himself to be a tool. Maybe he and Joan over at Salon can join up as they both seem to be about as dim on their political portent reading and oracle performances.
At some point this house of cards we Americans are walking around in will overtake enough Americans that all the happy talk and July 4th themed pandering will not deter the tidal surge of fed up and not going to take it anymore. The Tea Party goof offs are a early taste of things to come. Lets be sure to note that bunch is not comprised of the sharp wits either.
Contrary to what passes as common knowledge these days China is not our biggest creditor. We are. To ourselves. We owe ourselves a lot of money.
Clearly as seen over the last year the top five percent of Americans who are already very well off are moving more money up into their accounts.
Now what do they already know that too many of us poor Americans do not as of yet know?
Funny paper money is not so funny when it no longer has any valid currency value. We owe ourselves alot. And it is not 1950 America anymore. Checked out what has happened to Detroit since 1975? This was the Arsenal of Democracy back in WW2. All pretty much gone now. Shrunken American City.
What is happening to Greece is not funny. Won’t be if it happens here.
Markos a few months ago was pushing a different line. He caved or was bought off or maybe both. Who knows?
Would I follow him over the first hill into combat? Would you?
Americans are big on doing regime changes to other lands and peoples.
So we are to be afraid to bring some of that same stuff to WashingtonDC?
Some Empire.
Some kind of major losers who breathe free on someone elses dime and heartbeat.
Chris Bowers gets it right on the Progressive Cave while Jane does not.
Sorry Jane. Loved ya back in the summer but I think you’ve done not much but enter Galt territory with an increasing pace.
For those this wondering why this one book, it is a classic statement for progressives written in unmatchable prose. It was Jacques Barzun’s choice of Forgotten Treasure of the Last Century. Chapman is a great writer who wrote several excellent books and some bad ones.
Well. Consider what happened in 2006 and 2008. We advocated for, campaigned for, and donated to Democrats and thought we were getting more better Democrats. We thought we had them, but in the end, they kowtowed to a different set of masters.
Obama campaigned on a pretty progressive vision of what could be (many of us saw evidence in the FISA flip and other policy positions that he was no liberal, but most people saw him as visionary). I don’t foresee anyone being able to improve on that campaign, and we got Obama in office. But he sold us out.
The corporations and lobbyists exercise ongoing discipline of politicians through exercise of their wallets. Voting is not sufficient discipline (it’s not frequent enough and with the power of incumbency they aren’t sufficiently vulnerable).
What is needed is an outside force in society (effective activism) that will provide that regular discipline. Here we often see it described as “people in the streets”…
Unfortunately however, by saying that’s what is needed, I’m not saying that that’s what is possible.
Dear Jane, I am not surprised with the turn of events. i am ready to sit back and watch the mighty dems just crawl out of congress. So, i am asking the real Progressives to stand up. We are in need of real grassroot leadership. President Obama will not get my vote 2012. He is a liar. However, my grandson deserves to see real men and women stand up.
How many beat the GOP with us as the margin of victory? Add in Union workers, the newly Unemployed, the newly Homeless and young Voters who didn’t vote in Ted’s district and if the anti abortion stuff gets in the Healthcare bill women voters. Then add the Moderate middle class who don’t want to be forced to buy insurance.
Money and tv ads can’t buy those votes.
That will be interesting. Republicans will run on repealing this turd, then as you suggest they are going to go back on their word just like our critters.
That could be a true bipartisan moment for the public, if we start working to take advantage of it now.
When the Dems lose in November Koz remember those words.
I like it:)
Forget the Party, go populist. That’s really, really it.
I’ll give FDL $25 if Jane Hamsher reads the 2-page Preface, and $25 for each of the 7 chapters she reads.
Probably:) Yes unless Obama does something Big and Left but what are the odds?
so we can build on point of common interest!
I’ve actually thought about that. The trouble is I have no capital for that game. Just remember that you’re playing in an unregulated market and all those gains could be wiped out with another round of credit default swap magic. The other question you have to ask yourself is, if you play the game of enriching yourself through equities from defense industry, health care industry, and banking industry profits that result from the manipulation of the political system, are you any different from an industry lobbyist?
I’m on board for the third party not Ron Paul a different one. After these elections we will have time to really organize.
I can’t vote democrat or republican. I went to the Green Pary website but was disappointed. How about a Progressive Populist Party. Jim Hightower for president. Hell, I can dream can’t I.
Maybe the voting system should be a lottery…for us, not them.
Each person on the ballot, that includes locals as well as national, gets assigned a number. You don’t know that number. After the vote, each ballot is checked for the “correct” number, i.e. who you should have voted for. The top, say, 10% go into a draw, with prizes of much cash to the winners of that draw, and bit of condolence money to the rest of the 10%.
That should be interesting.
We are now so marginalized that we will have to pay to get on Maddow even.
Of course, we can’t roll back the clock. And we just lost a huge battle. But I really think that you and fuckno may be underestimating the role FDL can play in the upcoming debate over whether this is a victory or defeat — whether it’s true reform or a gift to the industry.
If passed and signed into law, this POS will be under incredible (and unfair) attack from the right. Rather than FDL’s position being irrelevant, the problem will be distinguishing that position from untrue attacks by the right.
I expect FDL to play a huge role in this debate. Especially in clarifying that the approach used for HCR was fundamentally unproductive and corrupt.
If they can repeal it, or in some other way make it more profitable for HC corporations, they will — and their constituents will believe it’s raining.
With the example of Ross Perot and the example of Ralph Nader, I don’t understand how the D party leadership can take the lesson that there isn’t a price paid for ignoring the wings. The price is right there. Of course, that’s only the Presidential elections every 4 years.
Now we have the spectacle of the Rs going further to the right, trying to satisfy their various base elements and successfully knee-capping Obama and the D majorities through their strategy of No. And the Ds, following as rapidly as they can crawl leaving the left open and disillusioned with the enormous gap between the campaign and the policy outcomes.
Why is it that money from progressives gets squat, while money from corporations always pays? A lot of generous lefties are going to look at this betrayal and turn off the donations to politicians who can be counted on to fold in the end, no matter what.
Time to clean the Augean stables. “Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.” — Mark Twain
Thank you, Jane, for another succinct and frank discussion of the political realities.
I believe it’s an appropriate time to reconsider a 3rd party movement. I understand everyone’s displeasure with the Progressives, but shouldn’t the real targets of that displeasure be those who do not identify as Progressive?
I worked on the Obama campaign in Iowa but ended up voting for Nader because sometime after March 2008 he tacked so far to the right that he lost me. Health care reform was only one of the many issues; by May it was obvious to me that any reform signed by Obama would be based on the current private insurance mess. But he also voted for retroactive immunity to telecoms who illegally spied on Americans in violation of the 4th Amendment. He stated he would expand the “faith-based initiative”. He ducked the campaign finance reform issue completely after reneging on a deal he made with McCain. He voted against local communities being able to regulate how and where guns can be used. His Iraq policy was the same as Bush’s… listen to the commanders on the ground. Our Israel policy, look the other way but hand them gobs of money for defense no matter what they do with it.
The GOP and Democrats have done a pretty effective job of locking us into a 2 party system. This can be reversed, however, and I believe it must be or we will never improve our politics. Our candidates don’t have to be good for the country, they just have to be better than the other guy. Binary choices are frequently between bad and worse and that’s where we are today.
BTW, Jane, you are very courageous and tenacious and thank you for refusing to let go of this.
-Wexler
PS You should see the response I got over at DailyKos when I reacted to Markos’ appearance on KO last week. Wow.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/3/9/844608/-Markos-throws-Progressives-under-the-bus
Small guys don’t move the markets, we’re the sheep to be sheared. Unless we’re quicker and smarter. You ride and step off before the big guys snake you. Specs are necessary.
Dreams are where it starts. Hope has a tendency to ensconce the status quo more firmly.
Jane Hamsher a wealthy woman of leisure wants to kill HCR because it doesn’t meet her standards. HCR is the progressive issue you are getting you want, HCR. There’s no caving in by progressive congressmen. If you don’t unlock the door now the door will never be unlocked. 50 years from now there won’t be universal healthcare if you don’t unlock the door today.
There’s been no consistent movement in this country against GWB’s and BHO’s wars. War funding has continued apace without a hiccup. How was it possible for there to be any different outcome in the case of Health Insurance/Care Reform?
A major flaw in the latter was the acceptance of the idea of reform over change. Obama talked about Change, but promised only Reform which has amounted to rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.
They have it in Canada.
How long shall we go out on strike? How long can our kids go without food? How long will our bosses put up with us being gone before they hire somebody else?
I sure am aware of the concentration of wealth. That is part of the problem. We have to be a factor in the politicians calculation when he decides to vote with us. If our numbers are too few then our votes won’t mean much. If the money we give is small then they have to balance that against the big money donors. Of course the savior would be public financing of elections. Barring that, we have to do what the other guys do to get our way. Part of doing is grassroots. Doing stuff like talking to neighbors doesn’t cost money, but it does take time. We can have a much greater effect by donating time. Time is the equivalent of money in many respects. Our time can counteract the TV ads which cost so much money. It has to be a big, long lasting effort on our parts. Obama got elected this way but he also got a lot of money. It proves we can do it. In a way we let him down because we didn’t give him a congress that supported him enough. Should the President go pout in a corner because he doesn’t get everything his way? It could be he is getting the maximum he can out of this congress so why are we blaming him as a sell out? In a few days we will get a health care bill for the first time. It is far from perfect but it is a start. It is right that we should fight for what we believe in, but we should also take what we can get. Let’s continue the fight and modify the legislation bit by bit until it is perfect. You all know damn well that this is the best that could be had under the circumstances. (The circumstances are these: Democrats from red states. Big insurance money. Chamber of Commerce spending millions. Zero Republican votes. Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Malkin,Fox,right wing radio,Bachman,Stupak,Palin and on…..)
Ralph Nader CONFRONTS Dennis Kucinich on Democracy Now with Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzales one day after the Ohio Democrat capitulated to the Obama White House.
http://www.democracynow.org
Kucinich seemed very depressed and was stuttering and even slurring his words. At times, it seemed that Kucinch was suffering from a bad hangover.
Nader really gave it to Kucinch and asked him how he would now address those progressives who believed in him. I urge all of you to listen to this.
As I was listening to this exchange and Kucinich’s explanations and rationalizations, in which he sounded so pathetic, I’ll I could think of is how the man from Ohio is NO LONGER WORTHY OF TRUST BY REAL PROGRESSIVES.
It will take external forces and another mass movement like the ones in the 1960s to bring any change to America. Yes, this means hitting the streets and the pavement. I hope that Jane will join forces and urge people to attend the antiwar rallies this weekend.
It is also high time that FDL and Jane connect the war spending to the demise of the infrastructure and other cuts from education to housing.
One cannot depend on the likes of George Soros at moveon.org or the likes of Markos at DailyKos to be the spokesmen for liberals or progressives.
Obama and his minions have as much contempt for dissenters as did the Bush administration. It is time for the rabble still unsure about this one, to understand it.
Obama has laid out who is and where is going. It is folly to think he will just “change if he is moved to do so.” In fact, it is apparent that Obama makes others change to his way with the idea that the right wing might come back unless you support this and that. Well, Obama is a Republican himself.
It is apparent that there is a huge “progressive” deficit within the Democratic Party. Kucinich and others have all deserted the “progressives/liberals” in favor of the Corporate-Military Agenda of the U.S. which is bankrupting the nation financially. Some “change” alright.
It is now time to no longer suppport any of these Democratic Party traitors who have capitulated to the whims of the Obama White House and Nancy Pelosi. What left is there to be loyal to these Democratic Party scoundrels?
It will now take a concerted effort by those who still care to work AGAINST ALL OF THESE Faux Progressive/Liberal Democrats.
I hope none of you who still call yourselves Progressives/Liberals will continue to watch the claptrap heard nightly on MSNBC either. Remember when MSNBC was trying to be like FOX News and supported the war on Iraq and fired Phil Donahue and replaced him with the gay bashing Michael Savage? That MSNBC is not “liberal or progressive,” but that they hired the likes of Rachel Maddow because of their ass kicking in the ratings and needed to attract viewers.
If you think GE is out for liberal causes, I suggest you continue to smoke that really good stuff you are into right now.
The Obama White House in 2009 threatened members of Congress who did not go along with their defense spending that they would not be supported in the next election cycle. Antiwar.com had a great article on this threat at the time last yeat.
that’s usually the trajectory, but I believe that Obama’s is a revolutionary act, a coup. It needs to be resisted, but not by the standard measures.
I don’t know if that actually justifies embracing a corrupt system. Does stealing from the hand of decadence mean we ourselves are not compromised?
don’t engage, these are just pop ups, not even visitrolls.
This is starting to look like a right wing blog with comments like that. I guess I can’t think for myself can I? You need to go wipe.
The Hope A Dope by Obama and Rahm
“Obama and Rahm are playing for the other team, they are not friends of the progressive movement”
Obama treats progressives and liberals like fools. People listen to Glenn Greenwald.
Obama signs a deal with for profit hospitals to kill the public option in June or July of 2009
Obama runs around the nations telling his progressives and liberal followers he loves Public Option, he wants the Public Option, knowing all the time he killed Public Option a long time ago. (Welcome to the Hope A Dope)
If you tell the masses what is listed ABOVE, this would hurt Obama Big Time.
Progressives should not be DEPRESS, they should be PISS!
Progressives need to do some REGIME CHANGE within the DEMOCRATIC party!
Progressives need to realize, and realize very quickly you are the MAJORITY.
Thanks to Jane and others we now know who our enemies are, and it is time to deal with them.
Everyone, can e-mail their friends about how OBAMA played his progressive base as a bunch of Fools.
People don’t like going to pep rallys by the president and shouting Public Option, Public Option! and believing the president is with them, not knowing that the President is laughing at them entire time, because he killed the Public Option.
Jane, You are correct. Your post yesterday is the definitive history of how progressives were betrayed to pass this corporatist HCR bill (assuming it passes). You should get it posted on HP and pups should broadcast it widely to educate everyone who doesn’t follow the beltway closely.
But @thejoz is also correct. We currently do not have a credible counterweight to the tea-partiers in the streets. As a group they are incoherent and either ignorant of objective truths or in denial of them; but they are in the streets.
Progressives need to get behind an up or down vote on Grayson’s HR4789 and get in the streets to force the issue. We can use the internet to organize. And we must keep it non-violent. But we have to make these representatives do the right thing–they’ve clearly demonstrated they will not do it based on common progressive principles as you have so precisely shown.
Unfortunately, after you unlock the door, you find yourself in a labyrinth leading nowhere and occupying all your time and attention just to get back.
In the meantime, the cynics go on to make even more oodles of dough…
At the same time, that dough is mostly turning sour, even for them.
“It could be he is getting the maximum he can out of this congress so why are we blaming him as a sell out?”
Obama is most definately a sellout, I just watched the whole show real time. Am I going to believe you trying to tell me I didn’t see what I just saw?
November.
: )
Sorry if anyone else has shared any of this, but I just had to post this snippet from the linked pamphlet,Practical Agitation;
This pamphlet was published in 1900, a time when Robber Barons controlled the government much as they do now.
As I read it, I hear echos of everything we discuss here, and I hear good solid advice on how to proceed.
Much of what I’m reading, I interpret as indicating that the people’s commitment to reforming politics is the leading trend, and the politicians must follow, they have no real intent to provide us with the relief we so badly need from the predation of the rich and powerful interests that control our government, but they will follow our lead nonetheless, if we can organize ourselves properly, persist, and avoid despair.
Thank you leowong, Thank you very much.
Until some of these other folks decide what sort of third party to promote, the Green Party will be the best we’ve got.
Tough call, no doubt.
no,no , It’s just affirming It didn’t see what It saw.
Horseshit.
i guess i’ll just write in jane hamsher for all my future ballots, until someone else can prove they have a spine
I admit I did not read the article……
But, one thing is obvious to me:
JANE DID NOT CAVE and NEEDS NOT APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE.
Unlike the other faux “progressives,” Jane is not and has honor and is honorable and trustworthy.
Jane unlike Markos and George Soros is not part of the governing elite nor seeks to be part of the ruling structure.
Jane is consistent unlike the other fakes who claim to be “progressives” when their own background suggests very nefarious dealings, if not outright lies about who they are and actually work for. Some of these people act as fronts to actually undermine liberal values.
Jane stands alone above most progressive bloggers I have seen. Thanks again Jane!
Bored I guess. Maybe I’ll go wipe.
All the D’s or R’s really care about is getting that corporate money for TV ads that will brainwash the ignorant majority into voting for them. Both sides want to serve the corporate masters, D’s just came to the party late and are trying to play catch-up. Bottom line, neither party will represent the people’s interest.
And this election cycle, with the gloves off on corporate election spending, the game will chnage forever, and be even more hopelessly tilted against the people.
We must find a way to put some FEAR into the politicians. Angry street action is required, and the non-1% real people are angry enough to join us now. An anti-corporate, accountable government message, with support for the First AND Second Amendments, and a downplaying of the other divisive social issues, would get very wide support right now in the general population.
We just need a visible leader and a focused message.
they also had gattlin guns, and parked their mounts on Wall Street. How does that help us?
The agitation in the ’60s was driven by the SWP and CPUSA. Read Out Now! by Fred Halstead.
My thought was that we “unlock the door” to find ourselves in the prison yard.
A day or two on the streets and out from under the thumb of the paymasters is all it takes to create quite a bit of havoc for the owning class.
I’m not even going to address the rest of your boo-fucking-hoo Obama apologist nonsense, but I thought I might educate you a little about what happens in other countries when the government doesn’t respond to the needs of the people.
He’s unlocking the door! Unfortunately, we’re about to be shoved inside and retained indefinitely (with an occasional -make that regular- involuntary conjugal visit).
bigrock, “At least the Repugs will lower MY TAX BILL….”
I appreciate the humor, but as you know, Repugs don’t lower the taxes of anyone except the rich and the corporations. They shift taxes to the working class in reverse Robin Hood mode. And don’t forget about hidden taxes like college tuition, fees for credit cards and banking, health costs of pollution, etc.
No, I’m afraid it is your country that has lost. As a Canadian, nothing could be more obvious. It is insane to celebrate this entrenchment of a corrupt privatized system as a win. Yippee, let’s make more profits off the sick and dying! And only 180, 000 more uninsured people will die in the four years before it will take effect!
Liberals in your country are apparently so weak any crumb will have them shouting from the rooftops. Sad.
Jane, I can not thank you enough! You are a hero! Please keep fighting!
This whole experience has been incredibly disheartening. I had to explain to my 7 year old this morning why we were so disgusted with Obama. He was actually the first one in the family to support Obama 2 years ago, I was leaning towards Edwards, my husband towards Hillary and my son who was 5 at the time saw Obama on CSPAN and said “I want him to be President”. We proceeded to attend 2 rallies with him and my then 1 year old. One of them the night before the election in the rain. It was all so exciting. We thought we were really giving him a great experience. Now he sees our total disgust with Obama and all of the spineless corporate dems, and the only thing I could say when we talked about it this morning was Obama is still better than McCain,(but not much!)
As soon as I have time I will change my voter registration from Democrat. I will never vote republican, but I will also never vote for another corporate slimeball spineless democrat again!
jrb1…
That’s crap. I’m disabled on SSD/medicare with Huntington’s Disease. I haven’t go a dime to my name. I’m in the poorest group of subsidized patients. My co-pays and deductibles have gone up 700% in less than 2 years. One more year of increases like this, and I have to let Medicare Part D lapse. I’ll be back in the emergency room for all my health care again.
You’re all in the same mess as me now.
Dear Jane,
These United States were founded by human beings whom refused to be discouraged by impossible odds. You have the same Spirit. The exact Spirit our Framers said would be required to “keep a Republic”.
I have no intention of taking on any of your “puppies” in any sort of adversarial way (are you all mostly from Virginia?) they are of course “Jane’s puppies” and the most important thing is we have sincere appreciation for what Jane Hamshire is about, Patriotically speaking. Thank you for everything you do, and for your Sacred “refuse to give up” spirit.
Following is my latest letter to my local Senator:
Honorable Senator Nelson,
Regarding the latest version of “health care reform”; have them get rid of the mandate section, and we might have somewhat of a start toward something worthwhile. After the recent Supreme Court ruling, I don’t put much faith in their ability to clean up the “buy our plan or go to jail” Constitutional assault. What Country are we living in again? (For Christ’s Sake!)
Thank you for all your outstanding efforts to do the best possible work for us in D.C.
###
If observing the past year of Congress regarding the Health Care fiasco, would Honest Abe perhaps have noted : “Washington D.C. : a town of white collar criminals, by white collar criminals, and for white collar criminals”?
Please relay my Prayers for Senator Reid’s Family. When will we be able to learn the details of the crash? Not the Medical Reports, the truth about what really happened.
Your constituent,
A.J. Max Cherbonneaux
As Eddie Murphy once said, “This cracker is DELICIOUS!”
We expected Ds that represented something more liberal than Bush policies. It’s not unrealistic to expect Ds to act like liberals. If it is unreasonable then they have no purpose and should be replaced by Rs who are at least honestly, consistently wrong.
Outspending corporate America with all of their ongoing taxpayer bailouts and massive personal incomes is not an option. They are hardly impaired by the inconvenience of creating a contribution shell, we generally need to pay bills and put food on the table. Trying to use additional corruption in order to repair current corruption is like fixing a knife cut by cutting yourself somewhere else.
You know you won’t win any friends by describing them as veal in the veal pen. You are certainly right, but you’ll have no friends on the organized left.
Eugene V Debs
Speech at the Founding Convention of the Industrial Workers of the World
“organized left” ?
where’s that?
What we must understand is that we’ve been in exactly the same situation before.
What helps is knowing that this situation is not new, and the solution lies in learning how we managed to fight back the last time.
Because we did fight back the last time, and we did improve our lot.
Evidently, a major part of the process of being re-conquered by the bastards is becoming complacent and thinking we can afford to, or deserve to rest once we’ve won a few battles and our kids can go to college instead of down into the mines.
And then we forgot; we forgot how to fight, and now we must commit ourselves to remembering.
Hey lawguy
If it is not obvious by now, when the hell will it be?
WE HAVE NO FRIENDS IN THE “organized left.”
And thus a popular public option has to die? Excuses, excuses.
So while they’re modifying their opinions for the sake of retaining foundation money, we should be quiet about it like good children?
Children, children, children! You remind me of an old episode of Fawlty Towers where the spoiled brat kid got mad because his French fries were “the wrong shape” and to punish the chef, he refused to eat anything, just sat there and sulked!
You didn’t get your way, so let’s just destroy the world. Right?
And YOU faux “progressives” have the nerve to criticize the nutcase right for their unthinking stupidity? Good grief. Look in the damned mirror.
Kucinich was right. The bill is not truly worthy because it leaves out the best part. But it’s a start, for chrissake. The first passable bill on health care reform since Teddy Roosevelt first suggested it an age or two ago. Let this one fail and it’s a guarantee there will be nothing else coming forward for at least a decade, probably more, maybe never. In fact it WILL be never if, because of your poorly thought Waaah-Waaah-Waaahing you may well assist the return of congress to the proto-Fascist majority the wingnuts so crave, and when that day comes, all chances at progressive reform — along with the nation itself — may well have expired for the last time.
For the record, I completely agree that this bill sucks and stinks, and does not address anything other than a few scratches on the surface of a sphere. Progressives SHOULD want a sphere where there is not simply a surface — that’s too much like a soap bubble. Poof. We need beneath-the-surface substance, not just hot air. So, shut off the whining and get to work!!
A final point: unless or until power is returned to the people and taken away from corporate enterprise; until conservatism is exposed for the crap philosophy it truly is; until public financing of the political process and the purchase of Congress is outlawed once and for all; until those ‘tidbits’ are in place and operative, nothing other than support for the next corporate favor, or support for the next stupid war (as if there’s a difference) will emerge from Congress.
We should be pleased we’ve gotten as far as we have this last year.
Open your eyes, open your minds! Think and See! for a change. Act, don’t REact. All is not lost. Not yet. Remember the words of John Ruskin from more than a century ago:
“Hundreds of people can talk for one who can think, but thousands can think for one who can see.”
Read that and think about it, then stop the waaah-waaah-waaahing and get to work! Learn how to SEE, and then kick proto-fascist butt!
As I have said many times before, things went wrong when the anti-war liberals, who helped convince the country to take a chance on Obama, allowed the Democratic party to re-define what a liberal and/or progressive is…
Now we have “progressives” talking about winning false wars, supporting non-prosecution of terrorists and supporting a president whose views are very far from progressive. They are even right of Reagan in some cases.
The deals were made long before the Democrats came into power and long before Obama was elected, and perhaps played a part in him getting support from the lobbyists. The fake progressive blogs were set up way ahead of time, like Air America and the Daily Twit, and, of course, Huffpo, whose gigantic loan from the crooked powers confirmed her direction, as well as ads on her site to “buy real estate” in Israel.
We had a clear message. Anti-war, anti-torture, anti-spying, what happened? The Democrats became exposed as the party of filth! Ed Schultz calling people horrible names, Rachel Maddow talking about the “War on Terra”, rotten mobsters like Rahm calling decent liberals disgusting names. I feel like taking a bath every time I turn on MSNBC and I can only stand a quick glance at Huffpo, which is like a censored twitter toilet bowl.
There is a very important reason why this kind of progressivism will fail. And it has to do with the fact that we live in a society that is: Post Progressive, Post Modern, and, in many ways, Post Ethical. It has become the state of our world. Modern artists have known this and reflect this, and if you study post-modern cultural commentary this way, like every liberal arts college student does, the truth is obvious.
The hopes of progress and modernism were dashed at the point of the use of the atom bomb. It became obvious at that point that all efforts toward modernization, machines and progress would eventually become used for war. Modernity and progress became distrusted and, in essence, a bad word. Its over. And if it wasn’t obvious when we used the bomb, it was obvious when they exploded our president’s head. Multiply this will predatory wars around the world and the new world order goals, we have a real, serious mess.
Sure, it’s theoretically possible for “government” to do good. But they are no longer capable. It can’t happen anymore and it won’t. The Democrats are spinning a dream, like Abby Road and the Beatles. A fantasy. And the smart ones know it.
So, in light of these facts, the tea party mentality is about the only thing left. Shink the government. Starve it of money. Make it irrelevent. Make the corporation beg. Take back our tax dollars.
A few days ago a person was interviewed by Glen Beck, who told him that they started polling the tea parties. About 30% are answering that they are Democrats. Glen literally choked on air.
But that is WHY the American people are so smart and they know this is the only way to go. So do the protesters in Europe.
The MOST FEARED ALLIANCE IS BETWEEN THE TEA PARTIERS, ANTI-WAR FORCES AND LIBERTARIANS. Its the only thing that scares the hell out of Democrat and Repub alike. But, if you want a solid overlap of values and goals, THIS IS THE ONLY AREA FOR REAL UNITY. Obama is barking up the wrong tree trying to unite the neocons and neolibs. Its an alliance based on lies and both parties are vested in making the other the demon. It will not work.
Forge a way with those who understand government is broken. It must return to the local level, away from globalism. And GOVERNMENT must go through a recession/depression, not the American people and the people of the world.
Please, all real and fake liberal bloggers… Take the message of Andy Warhol. We live in the totally destructive, violent, sick society that we have created. It is nothing to be proud of. It is sick and dangerous. Dangerous to the weak, the young, the old, the innocent. And no amount of talk of Hopeychange and fake progressive blogs will alter that (as we have seen). You can either drink the kool-aid or face your world and culture with a desire to admit the truth.
Populists understand this instinctively, whether anti-war or anti-government. Its a place to start.
This is not about winning or losing…..
The fight goes on forever because what they give today can be taken away in the future….
What passes now, can be changed at another time.
Politics is a weird game….Literally and figuratively…..
I was hoping that capitalism, American-style would have actually died during the first wave of the economic meltdown under Bush. I really did. By saving the banks and giving out the bailouts, the ruling elite was saving the country for the elite at the expense of the masses.
The entire Obama campaign reflected how easy it is to fool and lie to the masses of people in America. It also demonstrated how the elite look down at the masses of people as well. The elites have no use or care for American citizens. Of course, they will deny such things. The ruling elite also uses polls not for the interests of the people but to manipulate the argument in their favor.
As long as Americans put up with the awful things going on from school closings to the threats of shutting the postal service, then expect situations to worsen even more so.
I haven’t responded because I’m too sad to admit that the people of this country won’t fight until they realize their backs are up against a wall. And they won’t accept that fact until they are slapped in the face by cold hard reality. By that time the perpetrators of the oppression will have long since removed themselves from reach with their enablers covering the get-away.
Rahm may be vindicated, but he’s still an ass.
Thanks for speaking the truth, Jane!
” Learn how to SEE, and then kick proto-fascist butt!”
we have and we plan to.
“Learn how to see.” LOL – more “Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?”
This is serious shit dude….People’s lives are at stake. In another way, this is not about winning a popualarity contest or going along with the team at the expense of virtue and ethics.
This is about real life and people’s pain. I do not give a damn about what you claim to be regarding those “organized liberals.”
Jane has plenty of respect.
Amy Goodman quoted Jane Hamsher and her fine work on FDL and used her as a reference point questioning why Kucinich caved.
Until proven otherwise, Jane is consistent and not some turncoat or faux “liberal/progressive.”
Thanks again Jane!!!!
And to Jane’s critics—grow a pair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have come to regard Jane as an important leader of the progressive cause and don’t want her to ever stop standing for what she believes in. She will be remembered years down the road for her contributions. There are hundreds of sites devoted to supporting mediocrity and to raising money in support of the weak-kneed and vacillating. I’m glad Firedoglake is not one of them. People are sick of compromise. The compromise is always in one direction. It has to stop.
Frugalchariot?
You seem to be lost? Your first huge mistake is the idea that you call the Obama Insurance Wel-Fare Program a health care reform. (I myself love the way Obama trick every body with this one even Dennis Kucinich call the bill an Insurance Bail Out)
Frugalcharito?
Obama has a little comedian living within him, the way he yelled Public Option, Public Option, Public Option, at rally, after rally, after rally, and the blind progressives cheered, and cheered, Public Option.
Internally Obama must have been laughing his head off, saying these fools think I am for the Public Option, Obama then said they don’t know I killed the Public Option a long, long, time ago.
Frugalchariot, unlike you I think Obama will lie again, and other politicians will lie again, so stay tune more health care lies will be coming.
Frugalchariot did you cheer with Obama for the Public Option, did he make you look like a fool?
What is it a start on?
But you are saying that FDL WAS taken seriously. That is very nice of you. As for winning or losing, the debate has been changed forever. The meme is now Corrupt Corporatists who have stolen our Democracy versus the people.
I’m not trading in an unregulated market, it’s common stock, and my risk of loss due to CDS triggers is very low, because I have no long-term positions in finance or health insurance equities. When I said cynical, I meant it. In and out within 48 hours, playing the spread on the volatility induced by the politics.
It’s different than being an industry lobbyist, because I’m specifically removing my pound of flesh from these corporations to cover the pound they’re taking out of me through government. If it’s a moral question for you, just short them; then you’re making money on their losses. You just have to decide which issue you’re less conflicted about; shorting or buying insurance stocks.
When I’m paying my individual mandate penalties with my winnings (they’re not earnings, I don’t care what anyone says) I’m quite sure any moral questions will be laid to rest.
Sometimes, real friends are the ones who speak their minds. The people who are doing this need to either wake up, or be identified as what they are so that the rest of us know not to take them seriously. “Veal pen” is actually a pretty polite term for those clowns. They’re worse than useless. They’re dangerous.
The Collaborators
They can lie to us all they want, they can make us promises that they wont keep or even fight for, they can downright betray us if they feel like it, but, they cant make us vote for them. The dems win only if we continue to allow them to take our votes for granted. The ONLY WAY we are going to get respect from the democrats is by letting them take an ass whipping in 2010 and 2012. If we stay home they lose and we stay home bcz we have no party to vote for. They think ( and they are prbly right) that we are to afraid of the republicans to stay home on election nite. This allows them to do to us whatever they want bcz in the end we will swallow our hopes and dreams and vote for them anyway. If we really want a democratic party that responds to its base we have to be willing to watch them lose the next two elections. Even if it means repubs win! Which shldnt scare us bcz this dem party is not much different than the repubs anyway. I say short term pain for long term gain. I am sitting home the next two elections.
No one will take them serious. I have been working the democratic conventions in Mn and the people are really angry about what is going on in DC with the democrats. They have pretty much had it with the party.
We are here to stay. Good policy is good politics. Bad policy is bad politics. We’ll find out which this bill is and I intend to be the first to say I told you so.
Jane: you wanna fck em up? Start a progressives are staying home in 2010 and 2012 movement.
That idea is ignorant. You gonna let onerous city/county/state stuff get passed while you stay home and cut off your nose to spite your face?
I hope you are correct/
All I can say, Jane, is I agree. The people who signed that letter and said those things lied about what they were going to do. They lied to us, their supporters. They lied to their constituents. What they lied about is a matter of life and death to millions of us. They only changed their minds because it was politically inconvenient.
They’re useless.
They didn’t see it through, and no one should take them seriously. No one with any sense will, and that includes our political adversaries. (How many months now have I been writing exactly this?)
What’s worse, if we let them lie to us and still support them, they’ll think they own us, and they’ll be right.
So, when they ask us to write letters or call in support of something, I think we should probably do that. But don’t support them with money or campaign effort. Not until they make right what they’ve screwed up.
Thanks, children. I was beginning to think a month or two ago that there was no longer any there, here, and I was right. You do, today, indeed remind me of the day some sixty-plus years ago when I was six or seven years old. I remember it well. My fifteen year old sister wouldn’t do something (can’t remember what) that I wanted her to do. So, I punished her in the best way I could imagine: I located myself in clear view in the middle of the room and, one-by-one, broke every one of my color crayons. Take that! I thought.
Guess what: it didn’t work out the way I’d hoped it might.
Adios, FDL. Enjoy your tears, your whines. Growing up is hard to do, I know, but keep at it.
I don’t think your characterization is at all accurate, nor well founded historically. One of the biggest problems with interpreting democratic will (small-D) from our elections is that we don’t have compulsory voting, and the variability of voter turnout makes useful conclusions almost impossible to ascertain.
If everyone simply abstains from voting, and the Democrats lose in landslides, then it will be taken as evidence that the country wanted more conservative representation; not less.
To achieve your underlying goal you’d actually have to get hordes of people out to vote, and get them to vote for more liberal parties; Green, Socialist, Working Families, etc. A huge uptick in turnout and votes for those parties would actually create the statistical signal you’re looking for. It would also have to be coupled with a very strong PR campaign to prevent the false-equivilence that was attributed to Nader causing Gore’s defeat in 2000.
Systems and logic, people. Systems and logic.
Very interesting. Thank you.
2010 is already baked in. But 2012, I say we hit them with every thing we got.
Where have you written a diary, or anything else, explaining your position? I’ve provided two links above to mine, and there’s lots more where that came from. Complain if you want, call some of us silly if you want, but if you can’t come up with anything but homilies and insults then I think it’s best if you don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.
Frugalchariot?
60 years ago we had Walter Cronkite and real Democrats
Go read Glenn Greewald artical Dems in congress will screw their base.
We also enjoy the way these Dems play the game who is going to be the Boogey Man this week? is it going to be Dick Durbin, Joe Lieberman, Ben Neslon, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, etc.
Why let them have all the fun,
At Obama next Rally we all need to bring some letters from people who need Health Care and throw them at Obama Feet, and ask him can your Bill help any of these people right now? and he will say NO!
We got a lot of games plan for the Dems in congress stay tune
I’m sure if Boehner is reading this page today, his smirk is wide.
In short, people can interpret silence however they want to. Speaking up, as in voting a particular way, means something definite.
Enjoy.
Not is it only, as you say, “a classic statement for progressives” its relevance to this particular moment of seeming defeat is truly worth people’s attention.
This work of Chapman’s is needful reading, Leo, as perspective is everything when engaged in the struggle which those here would call their own.
This slim volume speaks most seriously to many insights and understandings, which are not new but which bear, at appropriate moments, such as this one, repeating AND respect.
Simply to understand that progress is built upon efforts which those with the courage and individual determination and resolve to engage in such efforts and struggle may well not live to see, is a most important thing.
But the effort to improve the human condition is ALWAYS worth the cost willingly paid to secure such improvement.
Thank you, Leo, for bringing “Practical Agitation” to our attention and, as well, for the added information you provided.
DW
Agree totally. That’s the kind of alliance that could really wield some power.
so you haven’t changed much from then. Now what?
Good riddance–you are a good example of why America is falling the way it is….I hope you have great sucess in your future bootlicking and ass kissing of power career……
When Rahm Emanuel calls you to bend over, I am sure you will be taking at least two more than needed, and just for the team!!!! When Markos and George Soros call, I am sure you will be waiting by the phone drooling all over yourself as well.
You are an idiot……
[modnote - please don't call each other names]
PEOPLE vs. BIG CORPORATIONS. WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON?
So simple. So clear. So captures the situation.
when Jane proposed said alliance half of FDL was up in arms, to say nothing of the frothy kanipshin over at Orange’utan.
I concur, it’s not Party it’s station in life, class warfare.
We’ve been fighting the wrong battle.
Sir, I understand you to be an older gentleman. Close to 70 it appears. I have heard the saying that getting old is not for sissies. So a say this with all due respect. Do you really think your philosphy of political governance has worked in your life? All I see, since the 80′s, is a country being pulled further to the right by the oligarchy in control be it D’s or R’s. I just don’t see your worldview as correct. The democrat party of today doesn’t come close to resembling the democrat party that passed Medicare and the real Civil Rights Act of 1964 not that POS 1957 Civil Rights Act that obviously was worthless but I have to continue to hear about from the hired sellouts. Sir, all this happen on your watch.
Staying home isn’t enough. Corporate money will buy all the politicians they need, D or R. Especially after Citizen’s United.
We need to shake up the perception of order. We need to be expressing our anger in the streets.
Hey bub, as old as you are, I guess you can afford to not care about the future very much. That’s cool. We’ll miss you a lot.
. . . then they came for Kucinich . . .
I noticed the Boner is turning orange. Is he a kossak?
Yeah, absolutely it’s class warfare. I have enough connections on both sides of the divide that the attitudinal alignment,at least from the high side, is unmistakeable. We let ourselves be duped by the, ‘Everybody expects to be rich someday” bullshit.
I immediately supported Jane’s idea about feeling out an alliance via Norquist. Now, the Tea Party has been largely co-opted by the Rethugs, who are quick to move on such opportunites.
But the anti-government, anti-corporation sentiment is still strong out there. If we can swallow our own dogma enough to openly support the Second Amendment, and convey an intention to leave the divisive social issues for resolution after the larger battle is won, we could assemble a formidable force for change.
Do you know where he is?
The unions are considering running candidates on specific issues, like jobs and health care. i think it’s a great idea. I don’t like the bullying they are doing now, but they might be the perfect vehicle for getting candidates in who will work for the people. They already have a strong presence, compared to our other third parties, and a real populist approach, which the country is ready for.
We need three things to move this country in a more pogressive direction:
A seriously militant left. One that’s willing to burn the damn house down politically to get what it wants. The right has had that for years and if the “Overton Window” went any more right it’d be in the Overton’s neighbors’ lawn.
Access to the TV machine. Middle America learns about the world from network news. This is wholly owned by corporate interests, lock, stock and barrel. We need PBS to start making local news in every part of the country, or we need to enforce “community service” provisions in FCC regulations of media using the public airwaves. People don’t need to know about how a guy’s puppy was lost…but now he’s back!! They need to know that someone’s building a toxic-waste-spewing power plant in their back yard (et al).
A lobbying machine. We’re pussies when it comes to lobbying. REAL lobbyists tell Democrats “We’ll support your opponent in the next election if we don’t like you how vote.” Or maybe something less bribey than that. WE say “Here’s our money! You’re Awesome!” We need every dollar we give to be a zero sum game between the recipient and his or her political opponent. This also means we need a recruiting machine to make sure EVERY Democrat has a potential opponent waiting in the wings. These things go together like peanut-butter and jelly…otherwise we’re just helping Republicans.
This goes along with what you quoted:
It is the very greatest folly in the world for an agitator to be content with a partial success. It destroys his cause. He fades instantly. You cannot see him. He is become part of the corrupt and contented public. His business is to make others demand good administration. He must never reap, but always sow. Let him leave the reaping to others. There will be many
of them, and their material accomplishments will be the same whether he endorses them or not. If by chance some party, some administration gives him one hundred per cent of what he demands, let him acknowledge it handsomely; but he need not thank them. They did it because they had to, or because their conscience compelled them. In neither case was it done for him. Practical Agitation, pp. 40-41
I tweeted today: “Question to progressives: Do you want power? or do you want progress? You cannot have both.”
This is a real question, because many of us want power more than progress. Power to progress, yes, but first power. So we supported Obama in 2008.
Dennis Kucinich’s switch had absolutely nothing to do with health care and everything do with the Obama administration. Dennis Kucinich will vote for a health care bill that he opposes because cannot bear the burden of being told that his vote killed the Obama presidency. His knees buckled, it was a failure of nerve. To call it courage as some have is the worst kind of cant. Disagree with me? Ask Dennis Kucinich himself. He supported power.
Precisely. Thank you for distilling my verbosity. :-)
Jeeze, when I look at that list and think of how many of them I donated to [admittedly not gigantic amounts, but still, I could have given that $$$ to FDL], it makes me both sad and mad.
And BTW, Dennis, kill the fucking Obama presidency. It sucks.
we could have shaved off 20-40% of the Tea Party activists whose grievances were absolutely legitimate, and who looking to express their deep economic pain joined the wingnut because they were the only ones out there.
We need to revisit and study our failure, and must not let such opportunities pass us by again.
Oh, please.
Believing that this will happen is even more naive than believing in this crew of losers.
My God it’s Wendell Potter! Take the deal..I was just joshing about insurance companies finding any loophole possible around this bill..
Good for you Carolyn.
I’ve had the same “conversation” with these idiots over the last several months, have also written “love notes” on their mailings and given blistering reasons for “unsubscribing” to their spam, begging e-mails. [As I've said several times before, I use a fake e-mail so I don't really "unsubscribe" but have the opportunity to "share my thoughts" with them again and again.]
I really would like to see some “hard-hitting journalist” do a story on what sort of response these folks are getting in the wake of their massive sell-out. Perhaps those OFA and Daily Kos folks have lots of money they’re donating.
As someone who supported and voted for Democrats from the time I turned 21 in 1968 through 2002, then switched to the meager progressive national third-party candidates I could find (otherwise leaving national ballot slots blank) when the national Democrats veered sharply toward Republican-Lite behavior in early 2004, I’ve pretty well exhausted the options for voting my ideology at this point for anything beyond the satisfaction of doing so.
There’s one substantive voting option left, though, and if this turkey passes without a strong public option available to all included via reconciliation I’m going to take it: voting straight Republican for national offices until Democrats prove (and prove pretty conclusively) that they’ve reformed and are willing to walk the walk that they talk about during their campaigns (not that Obama’s actual campaign policy positions were notably progressive during his campaign, but his calculated and extremely non-specific rhetoric certainly was).
Despite the level of dissatisfaction here I haven’t seen this option mentioned (though may have missed it: there are a lot of posts). ‘Strategic’ voting is nothing new, and has been extremely popular among party-line Democrats during most of this decade in their exhortations to unhappy progressives to ‘vote for the lesser of two evils’ rather than for (as Eugene Debs suggested) what they actually wanted.
With all due respect to Debs, I’ve been voting for what I wanted lately with less and less company: the fear tactics employed by both major parties have become so successful that third-party challenges just aren’t working at all, even to the small degree of siphoning off votes. And electing more Democrats in 2006 and especially 2008 just made their treachery more brazen, so that doesn’t seem to be the answer.
Which leaves us with the “things have to get worse before they get better” possibility – but just letting them get worse under Democratic governance doesn’t strike me as leaving any option outside literal revolution given the grip that the two parties have on our collective psyche. That leaves letting them get worse under Republican governance to prove to the Democrats that if they don’t shape up, they won’t get elected no matter HOW odious the alternative may be.
So that’s where I’m coming from, but I’m still interested in other possibilities (since this one is pretty repulsive). Open revolution I’d consider a very last resort, but the kind of coalition with the disgruntled Right mentioned in 281 isn’t completely silly (though I’m not sure that any third-party movement can succeed in today’s America, let alone one as fractured as that one would be).
Apologies for having gone on at such length: being new here I don’t know how redundant this may have been.
I don’t blame Dem for playing the Kabuki with the base becuase the base is so incredulous. As soon as some pretends to stand on liberal principles then FDL and others starts a money drive without first having the Dems actually deliver. Next time run the drive with payout contingent on PERFORMANCE not the PROMISE OF PERFORMANCE. Then you won’t have to ask for money back since it would not have been distributed in the first place. You can’t blame others for using you when you have demonstrated a willingness to be used.
Yes.. Dennis caved to power..it was all to protect Obama’s presidency. That’s where I lost it. What is the point? He mentioned the trashing of the legitimacy of Obama that he despised. Well I hate that too. But passing this bill is not going to make those that hate Obama because they hate black skin or think it’s socialism change their mind. It’s not going to reverse the birther madness.
I would understand it IF Obama had done some good things. But he has continued ALL of the Bush administrations policies on terror and war. I find no difference. I don’t see from someone as liberal as Dennis WHAT there is to support in this presidency. I really don’t. Except HOPE. And again the false hope that “later” Obama will give him something and make the bill better. Doesn’t he know Obama made a deal to kill any public option plans months ago and then lied about it?
Why support this guy? Why? Only for the illusion of maintaining Kucinich’s own power. Which he now has zero of.
The Growing Movement for Publicly Owned Banks
We the people have given away our sovereign money-creating power to private, for-profit lending institutions, which have used it to siphon wealth from the productive economy. Some states are moving to take that power back.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/03/18-7
This will garner populist consensus. This would be a potent plank in any real left organization platform/manifesto..
Thank you, Hugh. Very well put, and very astute in pointing out the value of FDL. It’s not in the ability to gin up contributions to particular politicians, but in providing the information that our compromised media refuse to seek or publish.
The nation’s hope for an “educated citizenry” has been crashing ever since Reagan. The corporations have seen how useful it is to have “low information” voters, and now they’ve gained the ability to “educate” them through political ads to their hearts’ content.
FDL may be small, but it’s mighty, and the power of the internet increases our ability to spread the truth around. Sort of like Thomas Paine and others during the American Revolution.
There won’t be any gridlock after November. In January 2011 they’ll seriously get to work passing the rest of the republican agenda, just like Clinton did.
Do what ever it takes to vote the Dems out at this point. They are worse then the Rethugs who at least stand by their message.
Moi aussi. I don’t know about Corrente [I'll check it out], so I’m now down to only FDL.
Perhaps. But making them worse just discredits you. Things get better when they actually get better; they don’t get better when you make them worse. This is the truth to contravene the fallacy being promoted today by the Veal Pen that the Senate bill is a “step in the right direction.” Giving the insurance companies a permanent subsidy is not a step in the right direction.
I’m relatively new here too but I don’t think your post is redundant. I think voting straight Republican is more repulsive than staying home. A better approach in my opinion – at least in the short term – would be to vote for third party candidates, ideally good ones, but almost anyone would do. Of course that would probably result in more Republicans actually getting elected, but at least those votes would get counted for the third party. That would make a clearer point that the two parties are not serving the needs of the people, and that we’ve determined that almost anyone who’s not an R or a D is the lesser evil.
You might take a look at Ian Welsh’s blog. Ian used to post here but stopped for some reason. He is one of the most intelligent voices around.
You’re probably right. I just assume the Republicans will continue voting against Obama even if he’s offering bags of money, secret gay sex parties, and free tanning.
Yep, Rahm played the progressives like a fiddle. He knows how to keep their sorry asses in line. The sad thing is they dont get shit out of the deal and they vote for it anyway. The dems cant make us vote for them and it is up to us to show them there is a price for ignoring us. Staying home in 2010 and 2012.
There’s your mistake.
they never really had balls to fight for what they believed in, they only had balls to fight the other team. You think the Republicans really believe half the shit they spew? Of course not, they just want the blue team to lose.
I hope no one will stay home. That would not be a good thing to do.
(responding to 300 – perhaps this will be noted automatically:)
Hmmm – sounds as if you’re at about the point where I was 6 years ago. Of COURSE voting Republican is repulsive: so what? The issue is whether it’s the best (even if not the most obvious) way to get to where we eventually want to, repulsive or not.
Your response suggests that you didn’t read my post very carefully. If you’d like to try again, I’m all ears.
Wrong!
There is only one team in Congress and Dems and Reps both play on it, and it is call the Corporate Team.
Obama is a republican.
How much more proof do you need?
Did you hear Obama latest Joke?
Obama signs a deal with the For Profit Hospital Lobby that kills the Public Option.
Obama than acts like he is for the Public Option, he gets all these innocent and kind progressives to shout with him about how we love the Public Option
Obama and Rahm laugh at the innocent and kind progressives, because they know they killed the Public Option a long time ago.
Now the Progressives are Piss.
Apparently people don’t like being made fun of
(responding to 299 – now that I’ve enabled more scripts on this page, perhaps this will be noted automatically:)
You don’t appear to have understood my point. As the situation stands now things will continue to get worse regardless of which major party governs. My suggestion is that letting them worsen under Republicans may finally force Democrats to shape up and provide a preferable alternative (or leave a vacuum that more deserving third-party candidates can fill), whereas letting them worsen under Democrats is not very likely to turn Republicans into progressives who can then save us (and at least so far hasn’t caused third parties to thrive – rather the reverse).
Please list their names, permanently, on the 1st page of FDL along with the title “They Owe”. What they’re counting on is that this will blow over and people will forget their names.
Dean/Warren, 2016?
You aren’t left Jane, you’ve teamed up with Republicans to fight against the most progressive reform of health care EVER. You are now a republican whether you claim to be or not. All your followers in the comment thread are conservatives, or conservatives posing as progressives. You need to really stop calling yourself a progressive, we don’t want you on our team anymore.
You are very optimistic person.
One of the few people in the USA that thinks Obama is going to win in 2012?
Dean Warren 2012 is more likely to happen
works for me :O).
Damn Jane, looks like you don’t get to play roll-over and beg with the Craven Capitulators. Good thing you’re already Captain of a great team of Progressives with Integrity.
People, its NOT A MATTER OF TACTICS anymore.
The government has been taken over by the mob. What is so hard to understand?
What do you do when the governments of the world are taken over by the mob?
That question would get you closer to what needs to be done.
Democrats can’t save anyone. All efforts through the system, no matter what the party, have been and will be diverted. Just as bad as during Bush.
You really have to kill or seriously maim the government. (non-violently, of course).
Its going to take a while for this to sink in to the Democrats, but I believe, by the end of the year, it will. Daily Kooks and such will be a laughable part of our history.
Either join the real effort and face the truth or try to live a nice peaceful life without politics. I wouldn’t blame anyone for that. But this “progressive” fake out has to stop.
If this government is not stopped, we will be in perpetual war throughout the entire middle east and africa with our kids seeing military service as their only alternative, that and suicide.
Please people, lets face the truth about the government. You can beat up the individual suckasses, but that is not the point and wastes energy. Its ALL DEVO. Let’s move on.
I expect he’ll win. I just won’t care next time around. Hopefully there will be a good alternative on my ballot.
This year long health insurance fiasco is the final straw for me. I no longer have hope that the democratic party can be reformed from within when the people I supported in the past who claimed they would do it have lied through their teeth about voting against any bill that doesn’t have a government insurance option.
Nathan, I think I love you.
I remember Ian. Didn’t know he had his own blog. Thanks for the link.
Well and wisely said. Remember, most Congressional progressives lived through 8 years of the nightmare that was W Bush. I know those years had a big demoralizing effect on me and I can imagine that those in the thick of it – people like John Conyers and Dennis K – would feel far more worn down by it all than I do.
But it’s more than this. IMO, a culture of demoralization in which you have to struggle all the time to continue to believe in progressive causes, struggle to do what you believe is right, if it lasts long enough, slowly and subtly changes attitudes, corrodes inner resources of resistance and one’s inner compass. I’m not at all saying that many so-called progressives have not simply capitulated into being bought and paid for. But as pirates says, “There has not been a viable progressive movement in the country for many years.” Those “progressives” who remain in Congress have either given up or are fooling themselves. Maybe the dead wood and weeds have been stripped – no more energy wasted on faux progressives – and we can turn elsewhere. But it’s a very sad day indeed.
This is just a fantasy. For instance, it should be obvious at this point that things did not get better for progressive politics under eight years of Bush, and that moreover the Democrats did not “get real” during that time. Au contraire, their first candidate of choice was John Kerry, whose record pre-2004 is on display in the linked article. And there will be no resultant vacuum for 3rd party candidates, at least not one that didn’t exist beforehand — see e.g. the Milwaukee conference at which various members of the Veal Pen stacked the proceedings against advocates of another Green Party run for Ralph Nader.
Thus “letting things worsen under Republicans” will not make a difference. Nor were the Democrats justified in finding any “change you can believe in” under Obama, nor anything besides the old “lesser of two evils” voting strategy they’ve been peddling since Carter-Reagan in 1980.
Look, why don’t you try to join a third party right now? What’s stopping you? The Democrats and Republicans have failed the people time and time again. You do want to stand for something besides “strategic voting,” right?
Jane, Keep up the good work. Rahm’s a fool that has tossed away his party, and his country’s future.
Excellent comment. Thanks.
This is John Conyers, Mr. HR676:
He said a loss for the President would be very damaging for progressives and other Democrats, and Democrats weren’t likely to get much done as a minority party in the House if they lose big in November.
As overall perspective? “This is not,” he said, “the first lousy bill I’ve voted for in my career.”
Progressive Health Care Leaders Sign Off On White House Insurance Plan, p. 2
As opposed to this confession, the White House, the Congressional leadership, and Democrats generally can’t stop the cant coming out of their mouths.
In one of my visits there searching for Glenn, I noticed that they now have extensive postings/features on RECIPES!!!! So, not just Entertainment Tonight, but Family Circle or Paula Dean.
Re Knoxville @ 125:
Isn’t this just what Rahm did for Clinton and the Democrats 1992-2000? And that’s what brought us Bush.
I think that when this thing passes, if people see, which they eventually will, or even more important, when they find, that they can’t afford the health care they were promised,because it will be, more and more, unaffordable to most of us, without government subsidies, with out tax dollars going to line the pockets of the insurance industry rather than pay for health care,they will demand change. Like everyone said, it’s unsustainable and it is. One way or another, even these idiot that call themselves democrats will realize that and we are going to arrive, after another unnecessary lapse of years and loss of lives, at single payer. It is unavoidable.
You STILL haven’t understood my point – just as I told you last time around. Please actually read what I wrote (which among other things explained that I’ve been supporting third parties for 6 years already) before responding again.
Democrats certainly did not ‘get real’ during the W era but they did at least TALK that way in 2008, demonstrating that they appreciated the need to energize Democrats (not just progressives: most of the party is significantly Left of its leadership) in order to win. And the membership responded as expected – which almost certainly will cause the leadership to believe that they can play the same game next time, especially given how much support they’re managing to gin up for this bogus health-care ‘reform’ package (mostly – yet again – just by pointing to how ridiculous the Republicans are being).
Given the recent results of the Massachusetts special election I don’t think Republicans will need my vote to wipe the floor with Democrats next November – but they’ll get it nonetheless if Democrats don’t make a Left turn of near-Biblical proportions between now and then. My preference would be that enough progressives tell the party “enough is enough” to force Democrats to change – fundamentally – before that happens, but I’m certainly not holding my breath, let alone counting on it.
What I’m expecting is that Rahm’s all-too-valid dismissal of progressives in Congress will apply to the progressive movement as a whole, just as it did in 2004 and 2008 when progressive third-party candidates were relegated to the asterisk category in the vote count (a few new progressive Democratic voices did appear in 2006 and I actually voted for one who unexpectedly won – and then toed the party line after being elected). By contrast, the Tea-Partiers were willing to field their own candidate in the New York special election despite the fact that it could (and in fact did) cause the election to be won by the Democrat: THAT’S hardball. Progressives can’t even field a credible third party candidate, let alone one which might actually change the result of an election – so our options are more limited and less comfortable.
Sorry to disagree with you on this point, but if things have to get worse before people will take action, like a drug addict hitting bottom, then that strategy is sounder than you think. I’ve had the same thought myself from time to time, but it does indeed feel like a repulsive option.
Very good, articulate diary, WWW.
Sheesh, those Kos dudes sound like they’re writing from the field where they’re waiting for the Great Pumpkin ["we can change things"; "it's a start"]. Do any of them READ the legislation or any fact-based analysis of it, or just absorb the cliches pumped out by OFA and the DNC.
For those above talking about a third party option, if you live in California, PLEASE get on board ASAP with the movement against the “democratic-sounding” Proposition 14, which will be the DEATH KNELL of any third party movement and will firmly lock the door to the gates of power with only Republicans and Democrats on the inside. And while we’re at it, get on board with the Peace & Freedom Party. A while ago I reregistered Democrat so I could vote for Kucinich in the primary. What a waste. In one of the most progressive states in the country, one of the only real progressives in the Democratic Party got only a handful of votes. Register P&F and vote for a REAL change!
– I disagree with Ben, however, that this was “smart.” It left the White House triangulating against their own campaign message, depressing the base and risking not only their majority in the House but also down ticket races across the country that could suffer from low turnout in November. The mandate will feed 33 state legislative efforts across the country to revoke it, 24 of which are constitutional amendments (the Missouri House approved theirs yesterday). It will become a campaign issue in states like Florida, where Attorney General Bill McCollum is running for governor and threatening to file suit against it. And nobody will notice if Republicans are lying through their teeth when they deliver John Shadegg’s message. If Rahm truly was the one who wanted to ditch the mandate and go with a stripped down bill, he was right about that. But his plan to run against the “left” to pass this bill on behalf of PhRMA could have serious long term consequences —
Good, if extremely sad, post. Unfortunately, Rahm Emanuel won’t mind in the least if Republicans take back the Congress in 2010. He, like JOE LIEBERMAN, is a HARD-CORE LIKUDNIK, who well knows that Republican hot-heads (like McCain, Palin, Bachman) will support an Israel attack on Iran…. if they don’t unleash a U.S. attack first.
DownWithTyranny has the low-down details of how Emanuel TRIED TO SABOTAGE anti-War, outside-DC Dems. in election 2006… he, Emanuel, even SAT ON the MARK FOLEY SCANDAL, in an effort to keep Foley (a pro-war Lock-Step Republican) in his seat.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2006/11/how-rahm-emanuel-lost-house-for.html
America DODGED A BULLET (in 2006, avoiding Emanuel’s SABOTAGE warmongering treachery), but the TRILLIONS of dollars Obama & Pelosi have given to Golddamn-Sachs, the insurance industry, and Wall Street parasites may yet bring about Dick Cheney’s wet-dream (our nightmare) of a police state “emergency rule” dictatorship to pass.
(And an Iran war would certainly do the trick. Heck, Cheney tried to make those 4 or 5 ALCM cruise-missile nuke warheads “disappear” from Barksdale AFB, and there have been no real repercussions since.)
Indeed (powered by those stolen taxpayer trillions), the drumbeat “IRAN SUPPLYING TALIBAN” is increasing, the Neo-Cons may be on the ropes in favorability ratings, but like Georgia’s Saakashvili, a few billion dollars BUYS YOU a LOT of head-knocking…. see the above list of scalps on Rahm’s “to hell with American families” belt.
Talk is, of course, cheap.
The rest of this post doesn’t congeal into a strategy, but maybe that’s just me.
If you’re one of those making things worse, then what becomes of your credibility once the public is ready for real improvement and not just Hope-n-Change?
I agree completely, if we let things worsen with GOP rule, millions of people throughout this country will suffer. Here are some of the things that have happened recently under GOP rule:
– Supreme court is packed with relatively young conservatives
– GOP repeatedly blocks attempts to raise the minimum wage
– The invasion of Iraq (I doubt Gore would have initiated this)
– The GOP blocked the expansion of health insurance for children
– Cuts in funding for science and technology (Disclosure: I am supported by a federal research grant)
The few components of our social safety net (Social Security, Medicare) were established under massive Democratic majorities consisting of large numbers of conservative Democrats. With GOP rule, issues like covering the uninsured, climate change, education, etc… would not even be on the table. The very fact that Obama is attending to these issues suggests that Obama cares deeply about progressive goals but he is doing what he can to achieve them under the circumstances.
What are the crucial differences between the Peace & Freedom party and the Green party?
Could you talk some more about that, madma? What are folks saying? What, specifically, are they angry about? Do they understand the “details” of the bill, and the phoniness of Obama’s claims, or are they just angry about the weakness of Democrats and their inability to “get anything done”?
I think it would be quite useful to “know what folks are thinking” on the ground.
Hoping you see this, posting so much after your comment.
Re Southern Dragon @ 258:
I agree. However, I think it’s worth considering a “go to the polls, but don’t vote for the ‘top of the ticket’ ” movement. For one thing, that shows some numbers re how many of us are out here but refuse to vote for Dem Congresscritters. [They can compare the numbers who voted "down ticket" with those who voted -- or didn't -- for the top.]
PLEASE try to understand what you read before responding to it. Neither razorbrain nor I in any way suggested that anyone (let alone us) should TRY to make things worse: we merely observed that they ARE getting worse, and my own contribution suggested more specifically that they’re getting just as much worse under Democrats as under Republicans (one could, I suppose, quibble about whether the SPEED with which things are deteriorating is identical, but certainly not much about the DIRECTION).
So we’re not talking about MAKING things worse: that’s going to happen anyway, barring a miraculous transformation of the Democratic party which you’d have to completely ignore trends of the past two decades to have any hope for in the short term. The question is whether we can use that situation to improve prospects for later. Rather than flailing about impotently as we’ve been doing merely to elect government which SOUNDS better than the alternative even as it repeatedly stabs us in the back and stifles the emergence of any more-progressive alternatives, I’m more inclined to use the reality of the situation to throw the only party we’ve got any chance of reforming out of office until they shape up – and if the only leverage we’ve got is using the Republican party to that end, so be it.
I don’t know why you broke all your own crayons, Frugalchariot, but you seem to demonstrate the same lack of insight sixty years later.
I’m 7 or 8 yrs younger than you and I don’t remember ever punishing myself for something someone else did. For example, when I was playing in my sandbox as a 2 yr old, the neighborhood 6 yr old bully came up and snatched a toy out of my hand. I grabbed a stick and chased him out of the yard and down the street. He never bothered me again.
If only the Progressive Caucus would stop breaking their own crayons and grown some integrity.
Thanks so much for that last paragraph: it’s exactly what I’ve been doing since 2003 (save when I could find a decent third-party progressive to vote for). The main difference that I’m suggesting now is to make the point even more strongly by voting Republican for (only) national offices (yeah, some people may not be able to hold their noses tightly enough to do so, but if no one takes out the garbage we’ll just continue to drown in it).
Then again, it took me many years to get to this point so I don’t expect too many instant conversions here.
I take your point, but doesn’t it just illustrate that manipulating uninformed public opinion is like handling an addict-they may not appreciate when you stop enabling so as to let them hit bottom, but if they then grow a healthy awareness, they may appreciate you more, but even if they don’t, you did your job well.
Don’t all our discussions here assume on some level that we know better than the masses? Justified or not. (I hope it’s justified!!)
I agree up to the end–my expectation is that when things get bad enough, there would be a real revolution, and an opportunity to start over according to first principles. I don’t think anything else can truly reverse the fascist tide. I’m done with having hope for the rigged electoral process as now constituted, and as it will worsen after Citizens United.
I guess I’m more interested in the ideal of seeing truth and justice make a comeback, than I am in having the credibility to be a leader in the aftermath, if it comes right down to that.
Jane – you seem to diagnose a problem with the entire progressive organizing model. Here is my proposed solution. I’d be interested in hearing what yours is.
I don’t think the masses are the problem. The problem is the political class, their corporate overlords, and their mass media handmaidens. The masses are simply responding to the choices they are asked to make. Obama or McCain? Bush or Kerry?
Then again, that’s the same kind of thinking that gave us Emanuelism and bipartisanship: adopt conservative pro-gun, anti-government policies to “lure” the conservatives, and we end up with bad policies, Heath Schulers across the board, and no mass mobilization. Having TWO parties at the ideological beck and call of the NRA, Mara Salvatrucha, and Norquist got us where we are today: the libertarians may hate corporate bailouts, but they equally hate things like Superfund, Social Security, and the Census.
Mobilization will have to come first, and be firmly progressive and/or New-Deal socialist, THEN recruit those with formless discontent that are currently going to the Teabaggers.
You seem to think that throwing them out of power will make them shape up. This reminds me of the old slogan, “the beatings will continue until morale improves.” “Poverty is good for the soul” is also a similar argument.
Or maybe the Democrats will just cling to their corporate paymasters even more firmly. In the end we will not only have to reject the bourgeois model of democracy (in which dollar bills buy policy), but also the whole set of relations of production with which it is associated, i.e. (late) capitalism. This is what my diaries, mostly at DailyKos.com and Docudharma.com but now here as well, have been arguing.
Both you and razorbrain seem to be arguing that literal revolution is inevitable. And you may be right. What I’m saying is that it wouldn’t hurt to try to fix the Democratic party along the way just in case that might succeed.
Beating them into submission by throwing them out of office is not any kind of attempt to improve their ‘morale’ or ‘soul’: it’s a purely pragmatic application of force, which they seem to understand VERY well themselves. And if they’re out of office, they really won’t have any paymasters to cling to.
Another potential analogy is that of the frog which will quietly allow itself to be boiled alive if the water temperature is increased slowly but will jump out of the pot if it increases more quickly. If indeed the speed with which we are being driven toward the precipice is somewhat greater under Republican governance, then that MIGHT help foment real unrest sooner, while it has a better chance of success and/or while less of our country has been actively destroyed.
I would prefer to be trying something rather than just waiting for that revolution to happen. There aren’t that many things left to try.
A) P&F is a socialist party, which recognizes that at the heart of our problems is capitalism – production (or health care) for PROFIT, not for human needs.
B) The Green Party is pretty much a joke as a party. Just to name one thing, consider that it ran a Presidential candidate (Nader) who wouldn’t even join the party!
Bullshit!
Maybe I should confess that I’m not a pure lefty progressive. My main devotion is to truth and truth-tellers. If the poeple actually get the truth, I’m OK with letting them decide what they want. And I also have no problem with the Second Amendment, and with responsible people arming themselves and using their guns in responsible ways. Nor do I believe that capitalism is necessarily evil, so long as it is reasonably and effectively regulated to restrain cheaters and rule-breakers and includes provision for a reasonable safety net. And I’m OK with libertarianism as well, as delineated by John Stuart Mill. So, I’m no kind of purist or absolutist.
But I am a student of history and human behavior, and I’ve watched the devolution of our society over four decades, and studied the tools used to bring that devolution about. And I am convinced that we have let it go too far to have any hope of reversing the process by playing strictly within the ostensible rules of the corrupted system.
Revolution? Maybe, but I know such might not succeed, so I still have hope for something very militant that can shake up the system enough to bring change, without millions having to be killed in the process.
In any event, the participation of the masses will be required, because numbers is what we have, so I concentrate on educating them and putting the fear of Hell into the corporate overlords.
Once a power shift has been accomplished, we can sort out the details of the new regime at our liesure. First, we must take power away from the slavemasters. We need to get the slaves mobilized and focused.
Nah. . . . Cujo, I think it’s best if he or she gets hit by the door on the way out.
it’s correntewire.com
Warren/Mosler 2012.
If you’re in Washington, D.C., San Francisco, or Los Angeles on Saturday, here’s my message to you: OFF THE COMPUTER AND INTO THE STREETS! http://www.march20.org
Here’s today’s press conference: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5543442
Trying a revolution by waiting for it (YOUR words) is not on the table.
You know you’ve got to support progressive things to be a progressive. The present HCR bill isn’t progressive. It’s a betrayal of all the things progressives believe and are supposed to support. All the reasons why have been explained here for months. Here and here are two examples now three months old.
If you really believe that Jane is no progressive because of her consistent position on hcr and her unwavering support for certain basic principles, then you are the one who is not a progressive. What’s progressive about a bill that restricts choice, bails out insurance companies, has an individual mandate enforced by the IRS and no comparable coercive mechanism ensuring that insurance companies will conform to its regulations, doesn’t have its major provisions take effect for four years, and is designed around the idea of creating a budgetary surplus when the country is still in a very deep recession and there is also an excellent chance that there will be a double-dip recession still coming?
And what is progressive about a bill that contains no immediate price controls for insurance companies, and that does its best to avoid higher taxes for the wealthy people who have done so well at the expense of the middle class since the 1980s?
This is not a progressive bill. It is a Republican wet dream. Bob Dole would have supported it in a New York second. It is what John McCain would have passed if he were President. So, don’t come blowing smoke up our behinds telling us you’re a progressive. We can see what you are from what you say. You’re a Hooverite neo-liberal ideologue like Barack Obama. As for us “we ain’t marching anymore.” At least in his Coxey’s Army.
Obama has certainly ‘changed the way we do business in Washington’. Backroom deals for favored players is no longer confined to the backroom. It is blatantly and arrogantly thrown in our faces.
As long as the American people are unwilling to accept responsibility for themselves on this most basic level: caring for their own health…we will be rendered powerless in perpetuity. Single-payer will make us all wards of the state. Employer-based health care insurance removes us from the true cost of the services and care we receive and we are more than willing to see our wages remain stagnant and our employers buckle under the weight of a burden we will not fully assume.
Truly free markets contain costs through real, robust competition. Informed consumers make individual choices that best suit their needs. Until individuals, not the government, not our employers, assume the risk inherent in caring for our lives and the lives of those who depend on us, there will be no real reform.
The government is incapable of adequately providing for our health care needs.
Last elections really got my interest because of the progressive agenda spoken on the stump but now I know that it was all untrue since the speakers themselves do not remember they ever said those comments made by them multiple times. Its almost like actors coming on to the stage, saying something written by somebody and getting elected on to next higher paying gig forgetting that but in this case it was not a movie but real lives and real hopes for a better future at stake.
Now I realize with this congress these reform bills are nothing but scams to take away any few bits of dollars still left in middle class pockets by direct and indirect mandates.
Sister Jane you are one the few who have picked the right and noble side for sake of current and future generations and I thank you for that.
We do have a choice. Lets just pick third parties which do not accept corporate donations like GREEN party to vote for in next elections. I know their agenda is progressive one and they want to make this world better. I know my dollars and time would not have any competition with corporations which will have zero influence with these parties. I know if they get elected since they are not compromised by corporate donations they will stand tall, speak straight and vote right in the congress and senate.
I cannot believe that Obama is going to force people to buy insurance under penalty of law! This is complete insanity! Even that chimpmaster Bush never tried that fascism during his reign. The only thing universal is the slap in the face progressives have got during this nightmare. This is a complete betrayal and to add insult to injury, Guantanamo IS STILL OPEN! We are still in IRAQ! Not only am I staying home in November (got that Kucinich you pathetic sell-out after a freaking ride on Air Force One! Didja get some roasted peanuts with your betrayal?), but am going to find YES weasels in vulnerable districts and give to his progressive primary competitor or god help me, the Republican in the general. I am beyond furious. Fool me once…
Carolyn C wrote…”I told her to tell the campaign committee that not only was I not giving them another red cent, I will be staying home in November.”…
No wonder ‘libs’ get criticized for being whiners…You throw a tantrum when you get disappointed, and whine and moan about it while you sit on your butt allowing some jerk off right-wing nutcases to get into office…And then you whine and moan about that too…Pathetic…
With that attitude – look forward to a bunch of pretty far out there ‘right-wingers’ backed by the tea-baggers to get into office…
———–
And I don’t see why people are so upset….Obama stated pretty clearly what he was about…I didn’t expect many changes at all…
< “And I’m convinced Obama would have okayed the assasination of MLK if it meant keeping him in the little boy’s club.”
puravida replies: Huh? C’mon.
I know people are pissed but, seriously…
—————
No, seriously, Puravida… Obama (and Pelosi) have GIVEN AWAY some (huge) portion of TWENTY+ TRILLION of taxpayer extorted "bailouts" dollars –
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aY0tX8UysIaM
– extorted from the very working-stiff families who LOST FOURTEEN TRILLION dollars in household wealth, VANISHED into thin air, during Bernanke, Bush, & Paulson's (and Pelosi's!) 2008 economic crisis & Wall St. markets meltdown.
http://www.thinkglink.com/article/2009/06/16/reversal-of-fortune-americans-have-lost-14-trillion-in-net-worth
Obama DOES NOT CARE if Americans have been ROBBED of THIRTY TRILLION+ dollars (that's nearly 3x the current GDP) – AS LONG AS HE GETS his campagin funds to get re-elected.
That is REAL money… the kind of economic extortion that leads to suicides, and denial of health care that KILLS Americans, and DESTROYS American families.
btw, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and even the Bush brothers almost certainly KNEW the 9-11 hijackings were going down, and they _allowed_ the plot to proceed unmolested; to get their precious "PNAC" "New Pearl Harbor" EXCUSE to invade Iraq.
(Jebby had declared a FLORIDA martial-law STATE OF EMERGENCY in Florida on 9-11-2001… BEFORE the hijackings were even underway!
Yep! Just like they “can’t do it” in Canada, the UK, Australia, Taiwan, and most of Europe!
LOL!
Obama misstated for most people, though Harper’s and Nader and you saw through him.
Anyway, CarolynC, to be upset over one person’s vote and say you’re not going to vote yourself is what the people you are up against want you to do. The ground of tyranny is passivity.
Now I understand: you’re under the mistaken impression that YOU get to decide what’s on the table. I’ve already stated that I prefer NOT just to wait for a revolution – but to try to take steps that would (in the best case) avoid one or (in the worst) hasten the conditions that would support it.
Obama indeed stated clearly what he was about, which is why I voted for Nader. The reason I’m disgusted is because he didn’t even hew – or even TRY to hew – to the specific centrist positions which he so clearly laid out: health-care reform with a strong public option, no mandates, and drug importation to reduce prices (yeah, right: he didn’t make any effort to push the process until all those had disappeared from the proposal – even if you ignore his studious and successful efforts to keep a single-payer solution COMPLETELY out of the discussion while all the time piously chanting that ALL options were being considered); serious Wall Street reform (well, he’s now at least giving it lip service again since the Mass. special election shook up the party); transparency in government (except when it might be embarrassing, like those nasty torture photos or his back-room deals with industry); withdrawal from Iraq (rather than pressuring them NOT to hold their referendum last summer which would have forced us out); closing Guantanamo (“The Congress ate my homework!”); repealing “Don’t ask, don’t tell” (but he’s REALLY TRYING, of course)…
Just off the top of my head: I’m sure that others can add significantly to this list if they put their minds to it.
Hasn’t the strategy of ‘just let things get worse enough’ been another one of the ideas that’s been tried for decades on end with little to no measurable success, though?
I’ve thought for a while that since both major parties are basically never going to do anything meaningful for most Americans, might it be a good idea to start over with a new Constitution that would address or make it possible to address a lot of these issues (namely antidemocratic structure, the influence of money over politics, et cetera)?
I agree with you that’s it’s not the best option, as I made clear in my original (and subsequent) comment(s) on this point, I’m just saying it’s reasonable enough to be thought about. My position, is we’ve waited long enough, and need to get some action going RIGHT NOW.
I love your idea about a new Constitution, but you do realize we first would need to remove the established power structure before we could get one, right?
Yes, I definitely realize that (and I don’t have clear ideas on that issue yet beyond its necessity). What I’m trying to say is that if we had a better idea in terms of an overarching goal, perhaps it might help in terms of coming up with specific steps to get there.
You’re right on that, of course. And I know you are thoughtful enough to have realized it on your own ;).
For me, the democratic principles they taught me as a child still are worthwhile. And I think the most essential thing, though not easy to accomplish, is to demonize and punish the widespread practice of mindfuckery, i.e., lying and deception for manipulative purposes.
When a high public official betrays the public trust by deliberately distorting the truth in a material way, they deserve to be imprisoned, whether under oath or not. That would be a helpful plank.
We have as many words for “lie” as Eskimos have for “ice,’ and for the same reason. That has to change.
For anyone considering not voting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUjbmAoN7hs
And for anyone interested in health care reform:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POxsu6z6YsQ