Matt Yglesias analyzes the “failure of the progressive block strategy,” and chalks it up to progressives not picking issues that “centrists” care about.
He doesn’t note his own role in that failure, vilifying the leader of the progressive block Raul Grijalva as “the world’s greatest monster” unless he backs down. (Our own whip effort started to back Grijalva’s efforts, which were already underway in the House when we started in June of 2009.)
I’ve said many times that it’s impossible to expect progressive members of Congress to hold together if they don’t have the backing of their natural fiscal constituencies — the liberal interest groups and the unions. Without that support, they’re left to raise money from PACS and other corporate sources to sufficiently fund their campaigns. That’s why they take turns championing progressive bills that ultimately fail so they can pretend they do something, and then voting for bad bills that ultimately pass so someone else can be the failed hero. When Tammy Baldwin votes for one PhRMA-friendly bill after another, progressives can say “hey, but she’s so good on LGBT issues!” Which never actually pass either, but the kabuki keeps activists sufficiently docile and donating to large organizations who fundraise off amping up outrage.
But it’s also worthy of note that it’s hard for them to withstand the assault of liberal “pundits” who sneeringly derided their efforts as naive, futile and “purist.” These thoughtful folks should be proudly taking credit for their role in delegitimizing progressive opposition to the bill in liberal intellectual circles, much the same role that the same people played during the Iraq war. After all, it’s TNR’s stock in trade.
I’ll leave it to others to analyze how corporate cash was laundered through foundations to underwrite the efforts of various “opinion leaders” in the health care debate, but it definitely deserves more scrutiny:
Monday, June 1, 2009
Kaiser Family Foundation Launches New Non-Profit Health Policy News Service
Menlo Park, CA — In the midst of a major federal health reform debate and the ongoing financial turmoil in the media industry, the Kaiser Family Foundation officially launched Kaiser Health News (KHN) today to provide a new source of in-depth reporting on major health issues. KHN is staffed by experienced health policy journalists and editors, and will feature contributions from a wide array of leading health policy commentators and independent journalists.
[]
At the heart of KHN will be in-depth, explanatory stories about complex health policy issues and major developments in Washington, D.C., and around the country in the health care marketplace and health care delivery system. The news service will cover policy stories like health care reform, developments in major public health coverage programs like Medicare and Medicaid, and complicated ongoing policy challenges like the financing of long-term care, and it will examine the nation’s health care system from a consumer perspective. KHN will also provide a synthesis of health policy news coverage through a daily health policy report, original programming from Kaiser’s broadcast studio, and regular columns from contributing writers and experts. Jonathan Cohn, senior editor of The New Republic, and Howard Gleckman, senior research associate at the Urban Institute and former senior correspondent at Business Week, will be writing bi-weekly columns. Among others who will contribute occasional columns are: Michael Cannon of the Cato Institute, Jim Capretta of the Ethics and Public Policy Center, Judy Feder of the Center for American Progress, and Mark Pauly of the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania.
The development of Jonathan Gruber’s much-vaunted “model,” which formed the justification for econo-wonks and politicians alike to support the Senate bill’s voodoo claims about the excise tax, was originally paid for by the Kaiser Family Foundation in 1999 according to Gruber. It was given a facelift this year courtesy of the Small Business Majority, whose money comes from foundations including the Blue Cross Blue Shield Foundation. (h/t spanishinquisition)
And recall that Kaiser Permanente was the original sponsor of the Washington Post pay-to-play salons.
You have to wonder if any of that Kaiser cash underwrote other efforts at the Post after the parties fell through.
HCAN’s efforts were funded by Atlantic Philanthropies, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and George Soros foundations, among others.
So, come on, pundits. Don’t let the lameness of progressives in Congress get all the credit for shooting down the public option, rolling back choice, and teeing up constitutional amendments to overturn the health care bill around the country.
Stand proud.




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Funny Center implies Center if the majority of voters want the public option and they don’t like the Obama bill we won.
Obama is risking Democratic control of the House and Senate to bailout the insurance companies with a stealth insurance company bailout paid for by the middle class.
Obama and Congress needs to stop reading biased sources written by lobbyists. They need to watch Sicko.
It is with more sorrow than anger that I must report from the Great Orange Veal Pen that a
Frightening report outlines the consequences of failure to pass HCR
It is all the sadder for the byline.
Jane, Jane. Stop this crazy thing.
Obamacare costs more money than National Healthcare.
We have tried Private Insurance and no cost controls for drugs for decades and our healthcare system is the most expensive in the world.
Under the Obama plan will our healthcare costs drop lower than anyone else’s? Not likely
So the goal is obviously not to save money but rather do the least possible to help people while protecting the insurance company and drug company profits.
Who I’m sure will reinvest those profits into our fragile banks.
Stealth Bank Bailout of Banks, Insurance companies and drug makers all paid for by the middle class.
As evil plots go Scooby Doo has less obvious villains
Matt Yglesias analyzes the “failure of the progressive block strategy,” and chalks it up to progressives not picking issues that “centrists” care about.
Matt Obama is less than 50% now in the polls if the Centrists really care we should see Obama’s poll numbers go up right?
We should see the polls say the voters like Obama’s plan more than the public option.
What will you say if your wrong?
MY: “It’s been difficult for a Progressive Block to be effective on health reform, because at the end of the day expanding health coverage to all Americans is something progressives really want to do. Centrist Democrats, by contrast, are largely willing to go along with this idea but sufficiently unenthusiastic about it that they’re happy to hold the overall cause hostage to various subsidiary points.”
This is so-o-o disingenuous on MY’s part. Centrists can “hold the overall cause hostage” only if a perverted counterproductive process is set in motion to let centrists literally and effectively control the timing and outcome of all legislative deliberations and outcomes. AND, and this is important, if that perverted process, along with its cascading negative outcomes, is defended every step of the way by hacks like MY — with arguments like “well, the President in our system only has so much power to affect legislative matters.”
MY, Ezra, Josh, and Drum have all given Obama cover from the very beginning — from when he first cut his backroom deals, traded away one of his key campaign promises — a PO — and let centrists in the Senate who repesent a tiny percentage of Americans hijack the process and piss away a year, making the bill progressively worse and worse.
Now they will be glad to use the same set of wonky arguments on the deficit and entitlements. Listen up: Going forward, MY wants progressives to make sure they take into account what centrists want before making the same mistakes that they made on HCR — where they took into account what centrists want.
Make sense? That’s what you get when a Harvard education is trumped by ambition to be an insider.
Just like the GOP, Matt and the Blue Dogs need to claim imaginary justification for their actions from the imaginary Majority.
The GOP won low turnout elections for years claiming the Center when all they were winning by was their extreme base turning out and our side not having any issues to rally behind because the Blue Dogs have no Causes or Spine.
The GOP wins high turnout elections on gossip scapegoating brown people.
This time its obvious the Banks and Insurance Companies screwed us. This time the GOP the party out of Power during a Recession is polling for the first time lower than Obama.
Who himself is lower than 50%.
Matt guys like you are creating a third party and it won’t be Ron Paul’s.
Nobody likes the Fed but nobody wants the banks to be free of regulation now.
I try to use the alphabet as a way to describe the political spectrum — with “A” being the most rabid radical and “Z” the equally rabid reactionary.
Using that for reference, why are we calling people who are at “Q” or “R” on the spectrum “centrists”?
Kaiser Health News?
Is that like Fox for Fhysicians?
But what does Grover think Jane? We can’t move forward until every last vestige any progress is drowned in a bathtub of petulance and feet-stomping fury!
I love a woman who appreciates sarcasm!
I’m sick of Tammy Baldwin, living here as I do in her district. We’re about the most liberal place in the country, and she likes to claim healthcare as a big issue, but she’s kept her head down this whole time and voted for the insane biologics mess as well.
Uggh. I’ve tried calling and writing but oddly enough I never get a response. She’s just not that into her constituents, I guess.
I only get form responses from Kohl and Finegold but with Baldwin’s office it’s like shouting into the void.
boloboffin gets paid by the post by somebody
nobody has the amount of time this guy has to put up the number of concern troll posts he does without getting paid by the post.
That’s right! Standing up for a woman’s right to choose is nothing more than a temper tantrum. And you know Republicans, so you must be one of them.
So which do you consider to be your stronger suit, logic or feminist theory?
Jane: I thought it was chicken-shit of O’Donnell to mention your name last night, but not invite you on the program to square off with Markos. Par for the course, I’m afraid…
All these wanker obamabots are starting to get ‘the fear’ that this bill really is an abomination and they really are a bunch of easily led suckers. Some shake it off by trolling FDL, some are working on their CYA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62cPEnMq5zw
Actually Jane, Yglesias didn’t call Grijavla a monster as much as he called him a flirt.
But what it was that Yglesias was actually saying and/or what he meant isn’t all that important, is it?
here’s the text, in case anybody what’s a fuller, more truthful wersion.
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2010/01/raul-grijalva-flirting-with-historys-greatest-monster-status.php
ALL this is just about the articles FIRST sentence.Quote progressives not picking issues that “centrists” care about.
Hopefully a few of you will find this to be something more than a personal rant.
Centrists tend to favor the status quo. Of course we have two political parties, and disregarding the behind the scenes influence of money and the non-partisan club of the Senate – the center would probably be different, depending on the vote. Almost as if we had a representative democracy. However; If a greater percentage of the public becomes aware that the filibuster is no real excuse for majorities failing to pass legislation – then majorities, at least, can be held more accountable.
However, that does not have all that much to do with the progressives problem with the Democratic party center. That problem remains. In most other nations they reduce this problem with political platforms. Platforms can jump over the center by forming coalitions of different interest groups.
Personally, I would look to what could be called internet platforms. They might be called party or caucus platforms. We no longer require the corporate media to distribute them. That solves one problem. However, I have no solution for getting politicians to sign on to them. Unlike most other nations we do not have private member based political parties that can enforce party platforms by withholding a politicians right to run under the parties ballot label.
However platforms for the U.S. House have been used successfully.
SEE: Democrat 100 hours plan -> http://bit.ly/EXNKv
SEE: Republican Contract w/ America -> http://bit.ly/1NuZZM
That is as far as I have been able to think this through. It is far to early to do anything more than discuss this. Perhaps some time in the future a cheap email campaign to inundate (for a day or so ) incumbent and primary candidates campaigns with a simple text Such as:
Working text:
One elected politician can not pass a law. Heck one elected politician can not even get a bill out of committee! This voter tends to be much more interested in political platforms. It is with great respect that I have decided to remind some of my favorite candidates of my lack of enthusiasm for any candidates that can’t find a single other candidate that agrees with them – on even a single (specific) issue! It is very distressing to be forced to vote for candidates that I view as ether lazy or wishing to make me waste my vote.
Yours sincerely,
Registered voter
The title of Yglesia’s post:
“Raul Grijalva Flirting With History’s Greatest Monster Status”
read the text, Kelly. you might find that the title isn’t all that serious.
As I’ve said before, this march to “health reform” (though it certainly does re-form the notion of “health”) is simply Obama and the left’s version of Bush and the right’s 2002-2003 drumbeat and march for the Iraq War.
Travesty that it is, the real gift of this is that is shows how both “sides” are exactly the same.
All the tactics and behaviors are straight out of 8 years ago. This ought to give anyone insight into what happened then, what’s happening now (and the consequences), and most of all what to do next (hint: it’s not about choosing which “side” or which member of each “side” to root for.)
Support the Preznit in a time of
warhealth reform, you traitors! We’ll be greeted as medicators!I actually can and did. If you come away with “flirt” as a verb, rather than “history’s greatest monster status” as being more important, there is nothing I can do to help your comprehension.
Market down, Wellpoint up like a rocket (upper right).
http://www.google.com/finance?client=news&q=wlp
Kelly, do you comprehend the title as being anything central to the post, and not just snark?
I think what Matt is actually saying is progressives failed because they are not centrists. Now if they would just become centrists then they would already be chalking up a major victory.
Frankly, I think the progressive block and the activists screwed up when they left Weiner out to dry with his concession from Nancy to score Medicare for All. That score(was it ever even done? How would anyone know?) would have at the very least beefed up any case for the PO.
Good, keep on sticking it to them. Youve been spot on about the veal pen all along. As depressing as that is; at least we get the pleasure of seeing you expose the hipocrites and party loyalists for what they are.
I gave up on the Center for American Progress and Think Progress after they came out in support of the wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
http://rebelreports.com/post/92345372/why-is-the-center-for-american-progress-cavorting-with
Centrism is for the birds. Screw Yglesias.
yes, this unseemly willingness to compromise instead of simply accepting a disastrous defeat sullies the republic.
It must really get your goose that your nonsense gets shot down within a few posts down here, huh?
Accepting a disastrous victory is better?
Yglesias snips:
All happy happy rhetoric aimed at Grijalva. And not the only post.
The larger point here is the “alleged” progressives beating on the real progressives, such that the real progressive aims are silenced, rendered powerless.
This happens in large and small ways, the largest and most recent one being Obama cowing Kucinich, with much cheering by the “alleged” faction, Kos and the like.
Awesome awesome awesome!!!
That’s the ticket. Make ALL who took part in backing this POS OWN IT.
They own it ALL, and should stand proud. After all, they said we should all support it and if we didn’t then we’re _________________ (fill in obnoxious name here).
MAKE THEM ALL OWN IT ALL!!!!!
Way to go Jane!!!!
It’s being reported by CNN that Speaker Pelosi wants a Sunday vote on the Senate health care reform bill using the “deem and pass” procedure. Why not let Woolsey, Edwards, Grijalva, Kucinich, et al proudly cast their votes for this “historic achievement”? I mean…they’re all proud of this, aren’t they? Let’s get them all on the record for this momentous occasion, complete with video to be used in their November re-election campaign ad spots. If you’ve got it, flaunt it, House progressives! Right, Jane…?
not really, although I do prefer my nonsense to the nonsense of the original post.
The hilarious closing line of an article in which Yglesias spends the whole thing self-righteously lecturing Grijalva on how properly think and behave:
“This is no time for ego trips.”
How in the world does anyone seriously think “progressives not picking issues that “centrists” care about” is remotely true? Isn’t it obvious to everyone that Obama and the dem leadership made a conscious decision to court business interests and the progressives made a conscious decision to make a pathetic stand on principle before folding?
slightly better, yeah. neither way is a victory, but passing a lousy bill allows for more bites at the apple much sooner than going down in flames.
it’s a tough choice, but ….
Yes, yes, I’m sure we can find a reasonable compromise between fellow centrists…say, 3/5 of a vote?
troll.
door’s right over there ->
I see you’ve noticed that Yglesias was arguing about the correct position, and not serious about “monster”. Good for you, Kelly.
“But snatching defeat from the jaws of victory by failing to take the most plausible path to universal health care doesn’t punish the Senate, it punishes the American people. ”
Whatever moron wrote this piece actually thought HCR (now HIR) was about “universal health care”? Are you serious??? And you’re bickering about “flirt” as a verb versus “monstor”? Who cares? The author actually thought Obama’s health care reform was about universal health care!!! sheesh
What was Barack Obama selling during 2008 coming up to the November WH election? What was he laying out as his positions? Was he pro Bush/Cheney torture,was he for the DOJ abuses not being exposed or was he telling us that he was for mandates and was going to dry gulch the progs and libs of his party for the Blue Dogs and the likes of Baucus and Conrad or indeed Lieberman? Did Obama tell us he was AHIPs and PhRMAs man? No he did not.
He wanted our votes and stole our votes with his lies and deceptions.
2008 was not ten years ago folks.
So what does our newly elected POTUS do during 2009? Cuts any single payer conversation out from the get go. Why is that? Goes with AHIP/PhRMA HCR framing which is not what he was selling during 2008. Again why? Let Baucus and Conrad dribble Barack Obama’s so called HCR all spring and summer of 2008. Meanwhile Barack Obama went all coy about whether he was for a viable PO,a cosmetic PO or no PO. What did we progs and libs get wrong here based on this Obama performance? Not anything we were not intended to be misdirected on or over.
Final Obama HCR gets pushed on the progs and libs minus any PO while we find out what Baucus,Conrad and Lieberman were doing last summer was Obama’s dirty work.
Obama played us for fools. How do you win this kind of game where the truth is moved around so you find out too late who you are dealing with?
This was not a Kucinich failure. Was not a lib or prog failure.
This is Obama’s failure to do what he was selling during 2008. He sold us out. We did not sell him out. So lets put the evidence with the action.
Somebody has done us wrong. Real wrong.
Single payer is where American healthcare needs to move towards. Barack Obama was the guy who needed to lead towards that goal. He caved in to AHIP and PhRMA for his own short term purposes. Great leadership? Hell no.
So get the history of this storyline right. We were misled. Not because we were too far left. But because our POTUS did not live up to what he sold us during 2008. Direct the negative energy to where it belongs.
AHIP and PhRMA are not going to like what must happen to them. Too bad.
Single payer/no profit/limited profit universal health care is the global standard for modern social/economic systems around the planet. AHIP is going to have to be pruned way back. Shoving more money into this AHIP for profit failing system approach will not solve the problem.
We need leadership. Barack Obama let us down. Chose not to lead. Sold us out.
have a nice trip.
Going down in flames is the word. Wait until you see the electoral response to this sham. The truly sad part of it all is that the Democratic party has made sure that its left wing takes equal blame for it. There will be nowhere left to turn for voters but far right.
Nipping at everyone’s heels again, I see. Got anything constructive to say?
That actually seems quite true. The bill is a starting point. Starting all over is exactly what the Republics want.
Exactly! Well said! We want to SEE who votes for this POS.
if the democrats are swept out because of passing this bill, then I’ll have to agree that you’re correct. but I’m working with the thought that failing to pass anything here means pretty much the end of the Obama admin.
Ah, a supporter of the bill???’
YOU OWN IT.
YOU OWN IT ALL.
The continued medical bankruptcies, the continued denail of care, and mostly the end of all hopes for single payer now that the insurance cartel will be made so strong as to NEVER be taken on again.
Oh yeah, and that thing about shitting on a women’s rights. Yep, own that too.
WEAR IT PROUDLY!!!
Oh, they will be swept out for passing this bill.
And deservedly so. Won’t November be fun??
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
First of all, Sister Jane, you are an American hero, never afraid carry the truth to power with the confidence of history at your back. Your efforts for the last 9 months have been nuthin’ short of extrodinary and what you have started here and the shifting political balances on the left that have begun as a result will continue until there is a new order of things. I only ask that you consider efforts to effect changes in leadership, non-elected as well as elected, along with continuing organizing to effect policy and legislation. In addition, in your spare time, maybe some diaries and front page postings from thinkers and organizers with critical examinations of what we have learned up to now and how things got to where they are within the context of the progressive vrs. corporatist push-pull of these last months.
No effort in the struggle is wasted unless it fails to instruct. Those who dare to act will always be able to move forward when the interests of the people fuel the actions. I would hope that you can see yesterday’s events not as a defeat but as a step forward and the grief and terrible pain within this community can be turned to reflection on where we are goin’ and who we are takin with us.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE STRUGGLE GOES ON AND ON AND…
I put in my thirty years working in health care already, thanks OFG.
I’m not going to see anything that I’ve not already seen.
I don’t consider yesterday a defeat. I see it as an awakening for many.
what would happen in November if no bill passes?
Or maybe it would signal a “reset and start over”. Passing this corporate sellout will enable more corporate sellouts down the road. I remember a line from a year ago about progressives needing to push Obama to be the kind of presiedent the country needs, and that his campaign promised. Well apparently that train of thought evolved into “lets all bend over and let corporate lobbyists screw us”.
Then I hope and pray (and believe me, with the bounce to neo-feudalism in this bill AND pushing back women’s rights by decades I HAVE been praying) that this bill goes down in flames and the Obama administration of misleading, lieing corporatists is ended…that way we won’t have to impeach him.
Nice reason to support it. Haven’t heard that one before, but it’s as good as any, I guess.
TPM has the following numbers to substantiate the view that there’s simply so much money to be made around legislation, that the system won’t fix itself:
Chamber of Commerce: The business group’s chief lobbyist, Bruce Josten, brought in a whopping $1.14 million, $922,000 of that representing salary plus bonus…Rolf Lundberg, the group’s senior VP for congressional and public affairs, received a $567,000 compensation package
America’s Health Insurance Plans: AHIP lobbyists Scott Styles and Carmella Bocchino each made over $500,000, according to Roll Call.
AHIP President Karen Ignagni got $1.94 million in compensation, including $1.2 million in salary and bonus.
PhRMA Lobbyists Mimi Kneuer and Richard Smith made $831,000 and $756,000, respectively, Roll Call reported.
PhRMA’s president, former Louisiana congressman Billy Tauzin, took home a monster pay package worth $4.47 million, almost $3 million of it in salary and bonus.
AMA: Dr. Maves got a compensation package worth $957,000, with $836,000 of that in the form of salary and bonus.
————–
Compare those numbers with Andy Stern of SEIU, who pulled in $250,000 in pay plus bonus and another $54,000 in benefits and deferred compensation.
You’ve nailed it again, Jane:
swede, the starting over, when would you envision that happening?
another dozen years or more, like the last interval?
There must be a line in the bill that says that health care legislation is fini, done, completed, the end, never to be addressed again.
That’s what the Republics envision.
that was in reply to your suggestion that I must now own all the terrible things to come, OFG.
WELLPOINT near 52 week HIGH
MISSION ACOMPLISHED
While I can understand your upset (and I was writing about Obama’s role as the great seducer long before he’d even won the nomination), that anger is most appropriately placed with the voters who in the face of all evidence allowed themselves to be and wanted to be seduced.
Ain’t nobody made the left give O that big sloppy electoral blowjob. They were begging to do it.
So whose fault is it really?
Painful as it can be, accountability and change begins at home.
Looks like Ratigan’s MSNBC show is highlighting the nexus of moneyPolitics today, also: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35899097#35937156
The segment highlights the Maplight.org’s campaign finance tool.
Is there some law FORCING the Democrats to not pass a better bill?
They pass a better bill, they’ll contain the damage. They pass this, they’ll go down big time, and like I said, deservedly so.
But please, don’t play that game where there’s only one alternative.
If the Democrats can’t agree to pass a better bill, then the Democrats are held accountable. Period. You can’t blame Republicans one iota, because Republicans didn’t vote for it, and aren’t going to.
This is ALL Democrats. So if they choose to pass this bill, choose to pass no bill, or choose to pass a good one in reconciliation, whatever they choose IT’S THEIR CHOICE. And then they’re held accountable.
they make me really sick,i wish incurable ailments on all of them
yeah it is. except that it’s a whole bunch easier changing things in a passed bill, hurting one bloc of greedheads at a time, than having to oppose them all at once, which is what getting the first thing passed entails.
what was our choice…Shillary,or Dodd the theif?
That’s why I hope it is passed.
c’mon OFG. there’s a ton of sumbitches fighting against a better, a decent, bill.
Well, you’d probably feel better and be more effective if you went over to maplight.org’s website and played around for 5 or 10 minutes.
I sincerely hope that, along with FDL and other newer resources, it’s a game-changer.
very few people 0ver 50 will be able to afford this shit sandwich imo
I don’t do Karnak but I have to agree with Hugh that we ain’t seen nothing yet as far as the economy goes. With balloon payments for homeowners coming due, commercial real estate tanking, the inability of small business to borrow, a shrinking workforce and the banksters trading paper between themselves the economy you and I have to live in will be deep in the ditch.
No. Nope, and HELL NO.
He lied, he had professional marketers, and an unlimited to budget to market himself as something he’s not.
That’s his bad, not ours. The con man that gets away with the crime is still the criminal, NOT THE VICTIM.
No fucking way. I blame the voters for a lot of what’s happened since Ronald Reagan, but this guy ran the most opposite campaign from how he’s governing I’ve EVER seen.
Nope, he’s the asshole.
Yes, and well worth the price…for those who are willing to see.
“Defeat” and “awaken” are synonyms. ;-)
Nice to see your insight again here, SD.
i agree pal
rotten to the very core,im ashamed of him
All a result of Republics being in control of the government and the media.
Yes there is. Pretty much ALL of the Democratic leadership. From Obama, to Reid, to Pelosi, to Steny Hoyer, to Baucus to all of ‘em. This is the bill that the Democratic Party wanted, so now they own it, and all that goes with it.
Including a real big bloodbath in November.
Edited on Thu Mar-18-10 09:16 AM by boston bean
Obama, March 17, 2010
Now, we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that are — you know, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system.
YUP HOPEY CHANGEY OWNS IT
Jane, has done pretty much all she could. Sanders and Grayson will attempt and fail when they try to introduce their shit fixers. But the issue will die on the vine until the failure will become obvious to the rest of the country several years down. More so since we are likely not going to have much of an economy left, instead falling wages, chronic and structural unemployment, and a growing number of people unable to afford insurance as premiums will continue to rise significantly. In the meantime, we might want to consider to learn to anticipate the events and issues that could be directly linked to a failed capitalist model (sanctioned kleptocracy), and which will have deleterious effects on the public. This is where socially conscious (independent socialists) can realize Wall Street like gains with human capital.
I think the link at “HCAN’s efforts” is meant to be different?
well I’m not real sure that this is what the Dems wanted, but I’m glad that you no longer have me down as as the sole owner.
we shall see what Nov brings.
Well, working with the hypothetical scenario that liberal progressives in congress actually would be prepared to stick to their guns, id give it a fair chance. But seeing how quickly they all bend over, i guess well never know what could have happened. And again im left cursing, not the bad guys and their evil, which is a given at all times, but the weakness of the supposedly good guys.
they all suk oats imo
You’re going to have to try to work through that grief rather quickly now. Many many people bought it hook, line, and sinker. The goal now is to help your friends yank the fishing lure out of their throats.
Who did the doing here?
Pelosi. Reid. Obama.
What were they saying a year ago? Six months ago? One month ago?
Are you in Congress? Or in the WH? Am I? No. We voted these jokers in to do what they said they stand for. Stood for. Why they are supposedly better than the R Party.
We elected more D Party members to the Congress. Put the D Party in the WH.
You are welcome to your take. Seduced? See it as you wish — does not matter to me.
Facts are what Pelosi,Reid and Obama are selling they don’t deliver.
Mr. Yes We Can went with No I Won’t. Thats on him and his record and WH.
How is that wrong?
We’ll be greeted as medicators!
:)
You should be happy they’re sparing nothing to get your bill passed, Senator Lieberman. Shouldn’t you be on TV patting yourself on the back?
Dude, Obama was more obviously a con man than a Nigerian prince.
And as long as the left pretends to be a victim nothing will change. It’s their version of the right refusing to admit they did anything wrong. The right doesn’t admit anything was wrong in the first place, and the left admits it was wrong but whines they were helpless to change it.
That fact that the left didn’t do due diligence and listen to any of the multitude who were screaming this guy is dirty isn’t anyone else’s fault.
Either that, or you need to give all the folks on the right who blindly supported Bush and the War(s) a pass.
Yes we shall.
I saw my state go Democratic for the first time in two generations, and I’ve talked with over 40 people so far that swear they’re not voting Democratic ever again, and they all swear they voted D last time. I obviously can’t know for sure, but 7 of those 40 or so are family members that I know did and I know won’t be voting for Obama next time. Or for Webb or Warner either. Won’t matter with Warner, he’ll win in this state as long he runs. Webb will lose though when he’s up.
Deservedly so. Every Democrat that votes for this fascist bill deserves to lose. It’s just too bad that every damned one of em. But a lot will. I wish that weren’t the case, as I truly wish we could reform and take o.
And in Mass. And in NJ. And in November…
Yep, we shall see. And so will the Democrats. I’ll never for another one that’s a corporatists again just because he/she is the lesser of two evils.
Just bypass the “bargaining” phase in the seven stages of grief and accept you bought it and move on. (See 88)
Weren’t you in here telling us how immature we all were to be talking about reconciliation and telling us to get realistic about the need for “60 votes,” Senator Lieberman?
We Progressives have got to understand that probably all the Dems in congress knew Obama had sold the base out on the issue of the Public Option back in June of 2009.
If the New York Times knew the Dems in congress knew that the Public Option had been killed.
However, the “POS” Dems in congress paraded around TV, at Rallys, Blogs, telling the Base they are for the Public Option, knowing that the Public Option and other Progressives ideas will never see the light of day. (they always came up with a Boogey Man to kill it)
If you ask me, who needs enemies when you have friends like these.
Not one Dem came forward and said, Obama and Rahm sold out the Progressive Democratic base, so let just stop with the pep rallys, begging progressives, playing innocent americans for fools, etc. Not one Dem stop the madness, the Dems in congress played the base for Fools)
So every Dem in congress was basically laughing at the democratic base!
In WAR you must know who the enemy is? the enemy of the Progressives are the Phony Dems in congress.
Jane, Glenn Greenwald, Nader, and others have told us that the current batch of dems can care less about the Middle Class, Progressives, the USA, etc.
It is time for the Progressive Base of Dem Party to do some Regime Change in the Dem Party.
Let the current Dems in congress go start their own Party.
Ask yourself how many people would have voted for obama if he said the following.
I am Obama I am against the Public Option
I am Obama I am against Drug Importation
I am Obama I am going to raise taxes on Union Health Care Plans
I am Obama I am for more War
etc. etc.
Obama could have had 2 billion dollars and still lost by 20 million votes.
The reason most of these phony dems win elections has more to do with lying to the base than money.
So now you’re actually comparing support for Obama as being just as naive as support for the war?
Dude, I was not out of the country last year, nor during the year leading up to Iraq. The noise warning of the risk of Iraq was easily heard. I just didn’t hear this warning that you say you did regarding Obama.
Also, I think it must be remembered that this was the election following 8 years of Bush/Cheney. If the Democrats had run the devil himself, he would’ve probably won.
Sorry, I’m not pinning this on the voters. He’s the asshole here.
you owe Yglesias a more honest reading.
coming around, better late than not. You are quickly becoming my favorite convert. Don’t stop!
I have heard that one of the “virtues” of this bill is that it’s so difficult to un-do that when it screws up the system horribly, they’ll have to go in and fix it.
That sure does inspire confidence, doesn’t it.
American politics is just a shell game with cups labeled D, R and I.
Ohhhh, your prize wasn’t under the cup you chose! But you were so close! Next time I’m sure you’ll get it!
Vote again?
A game of confidence, perhaps.
Raise your hand if you are
So who are you that you’re always in here for the sole purpose of defending the pro-war/Joe Lieberman/TNR set? An odd place to hang out for someone with those very specific preoccupations. Not a huge constituency for that, online or elsewhere.
Here’s that Woolsey video again, co chair of the “Progressive Caucus”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiyO9VBGhHA
Woolsey’s everything we don’t need representing us.
I understand, and about half agree. What I would like for health care is approximately zero for-profit companies in the industry, but I’m living in the USA.
I heard last night that they were going to shoot for a Saturday vote and squeeze the 72 hour rule, but haven’t been able to get confirmation.
Yglesias owes us a more honest analysis if he expects a more honest reading…
“I’ve said many times that it’s impossible to expect progressive members of Congress to hold together if they don’t have the backing of their natural fiscal constituencies — the liberal interest groups and the unions.”
That should be liberal interest groups and the WORKING CLASS of which unions are a sub-set. Liberals don’t know which way to turn. Your help is all around you. We are the working class. You can’t do anything for our issues if you are loyal to the Democrats. And without us you are going nowhere. Please give it some thought Jane.
Why would a private company really be interested in zero-profit?
Citizen Hamsher:
What do you know or want to share of what you know of what is goin’ on with Kucinich and his efforts to whip votes on the floor? I know that his switch is still a raw wound but is there a path opening up out of this? It seems that Kucinich is tryin’ like hell to keep 1994 from returning to us in spades by tryin to get the “progressive” block out of the line of fire for a failure or, more probably, out of the range of the voter’s wrath when this pig is roasted, lipstick and all, over the fire of what’s left of working families’ budgets.
Is there any chance that Obama will retire Rahm before the fall session of congress…that’s my only hope right now for November, absent a well organized and coordinated effort to get the progressive base out to vote?
Until progressives and Democrats stop using the false right-wing framing of “centrism,” we’ll always start from a weakened position in getting our message out.
One’s values are either left-wing/liberal/progressive OR right-wing/conservative/corporatist. There is no value system or set of principles in the middle.
People can have a mix of progressive and conservative values across different issues, i.e. fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But you don’t take a person who holds a mix of liberal and conservative views and call him/her centrist. No more than if you had a tray with a hot drink and a cold drink on it and then describe the tray as having lukewarm drinks.
The myth of centrism is hurting the progressive agenda. It gives false cover to right-wing values. We need to call things what they really are.
- Tom
vulgar grotesque marionette
why don’t you just fucking [Edited by Moderator] then? After all, as you say; there’s nothing you can do as you are indeed living in America. Weeek!
It’s a lovely odd place indeed, Jane, and I thank you for founding it and for a couple of other things. I’m as sorry as you that the health care bill was blown up.
Would you care to mention what you think would follow a failure to pass anything at all now? I would like to hear someone reassuring us that we’ll get something better near-term.
As Kelly said above, this is not “a reading,” it’s “the reading”:
See that little “F” next to his name? That means Kelly links to a facebook page so people can know who he is.
Don’t you want to proudly wear your comments? I think if you want to defend the Joe Lieberman health care bill, you should be willing to identify yourself so when it all goes to shit we know who’s responsible.
I’ve been posting on ole Matthew’s blog for years. He bought a condo about a year ago and having a mortgage to pay kinda brings ..er.. focus to one’s political beliefs.
Particularly if one’s paycheck is coming from an organization funded by Herb and Marian Sandler –famously depicted as “People Who Should Be Shot” in that Saturday Night Life skit re the Democratic role in the Financial Crisis.
Ole Herb and Marian sold Wachovia a subprime mortgage business back in 2007 for $25 Billion?? — a purchase that sent Wachovia swirling down the toilet bowl a year later. The business was known as Golden West — which shows the Sandlers do have a sense of humor. Although they didn’t think the SNL skit was funny.
Millions of other people heard it. You might want to ask yourself how it was you didn’t.
“Victimization” is just the way life teaches people lessons they’re otherwise unwilling to learn.
I’m not just going after you here. The critical moment in any experience of perceived “victimization” is the acceptance that I had something to do with it. The power to change my life in the future comes at the cost of accepting the responsibility I also had the power to affect it in the past.
Again, I’m not unsympathetic to your feelings about that pile of toxic assets you bought back in 2008.
I’m just trying to show those who will listen how to keep it from happening again.
“Fool me once, shame on……shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”
I actually think Rahm had it right — pass the smaller bill with no mandate and no Stupak/Nelson/abortion problems (if reports are true and that is indeed what he wanted).
As for Kucinich — no idea. He’s got a lot of new friends, we’ll see how long that lasts.
No, the other choice was Obama the center right moderate Republican.
dearest Jane,
how are you holding up? Kobe is with you
my 2 saints one furry one not((((Jane and Kobe))))
Obama’s not getting rid of Rahm, and he doesn’t care if dems lose both houses. Obama is not a democrat, he’s a corporatist and having a rep congress will make it easier to do what he intends to do. Think what happened here through. Everything we’ve been fed about Obama is a lie.
You’re right, she’s like a mechanism.
i remember stumble bum Bush,and Hopey Changey was so welcome at the time …sigh
I’m not a big fan of anything other than charitable, non-profit, university-based, or government-financed companies in the industry.
But, my wishes or preferences don’t control the majority of the US, or even the majority, as Jane points out, here.
Not really into this fake two party corporatist crap pile we Americans call politics so if both the Rs and Ds take a dive fine with me.
It is only going to get harder as the crap pile gets bigger.
Things will likely get much worse between here and 2012. This economy is in a long slide downwards. The real estate sector is not done shrinking yet and the job/wage growth trendlines have been stagnant since what? Year 2000? 1995? 1985? 1980?
Doing this HCR right was the wise choice for American economy in the long run. Too bad the D Party went with the easy money instead of doing what was right. Lots of people do need some hope. Selling hope and not delivering it does not work out good on the politics. Funny how that works.
How is that even close to being true?
Yes, I agree, as IMO profiting off of sickness and disease is… well it’s sick. It’s wrong, it’s immoral, whatever other names you’ve got.
But this is where all the labelling of us here at FDL being “purists” gets me confused. If we were “purists” we would’ve fought for national health care. The next “pure” thing would be single payer (where the caregivers still earn profits), and then when all of those were deemed “unrealistic” we simply fought for real cost controls (as in a robust PO) with some real regulation to reign in the worst practices of the insurance companies.
Instead, we get forced to become customers of those insurance companies, and the last I checked the loopholes for all the “regulations” were big enough to drive a truck through. So, there’s no real cost control, no real teeth to our regulations (I even think pre-existing condition denials will still occur using the fraud excuse), and add to that a bill that doesn’t even provide care, it only provides a piece of paper that says you’re covered if you get care. But oh yeah, if you do get care you’re still responsible for this and that and this and that. Bottom line is the folks that can’t afford to get care now are mostly going to be in the same boat. Then add on the additional restrictions on women’s rights, and I don’t see how any “Democrat” can support this.
I still can’t fathom how bad this bill is, and how little good there is. But this is the Democrats doing this. All D’s, no R’s.
BC/BS of Michigan is non-profit and still they wanted to raise premiums 56% last year(they got 22%)…That whole non-profit thing is BS.
Citizen Hamsher:
Sister Jane, are you doin charity work or some kinda troll rehabilitation…why are you wastin any of your time and precious energy on this obvious agent provocoteur? In the old days we’d just stay 10 feet from those like ‘im or walk ‘im down an alley someplace and let ‘im argue inside a dumpster.
Kobe is with me!
I’m doing great. What can I say? I actually feel really good about doing the right thing and standing by our commitment.
But then again, I never doubted opposing the war either, no matter how many times they screamed “traitor.” There’s a personality type that just isn’t moved by that — and another that can’t stand to be on the outside of the “pack,” anxious to prove their loyalty at any cost.
I’m comfortable being in the former, happy to be here with others who feel the same way.
Jane, you can keep up calling me Joe Lieberman all you want, but I’m just not going to mention . . .
http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Elmo—Super-Grover-sesame-street-116946_1024_768.jpg
I’m glad. Me too.
citizen NF,
The progressive base is too small to matter. Any serious ideas about how to increase the numbers?
The FISA vote was a dead giveaway – but who else was there to vote for?
It’s self-evident? Is there any action that Obama has taken that indicates he is a democrat?
Kobe will always be with you.
macaquerman really enjoys pulling people into his web, so do the rest of us a favor and decline to participate. Eric Berne’s Games People Play still has a few good points to make: don’t play.
One of the most salient things about this bill, for me, has always been its kick-in date. Two years after the next presidential election. By which time, it will be too late for Obama buyers’ remorse. Clever.
And believe me, you don’t have to tell me how hard it is to let someone else have the last snippy word. But please do because this is about commanding and exploiting an audience.
Seems like you’re just pulling it out of the air for reasons that escape me.
I got modded when I described it.
There was a socialist on the ballot in FL but I couldn’t vote for him with McSFB/Palin on the horizon.
That was the plan. It is just not some kind of magical failure now. Read the Shock Doctrine by Klein and replace “fear” with “hope”. It worked the same way.
you ain’t gonna find me faulting anyone here for wanting a decent, human bill. questions of tactics aside, I’ve tremendous admiration for Jane’s commitment and work for real HCR.
the truth is, we got beat, yet again. my fight is with whether we’re best off killing each other and those insufficiently committed to health care as a way forward.
Jane,
I am not a regular commenter at this site, and you and I have had our differences in the past: not this time.
I admire your honesty and mettle to remember what is is important.
Thanks.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/18/obama-hung-in-effigy-at-r_n_504746.html
there, once the american public gets a taste of the real effects of Obama’s medicine, there will be ……….
Citizen Hamsher:
But whether you like it or not, Citizen, you have got somethin moving here that is takin’ you with it. Are you leavin’ the field or are you doin a bit of base camp R&R? There are wheels movin’ within wheels and the inevitable next crash is just around the corner…what’s happening with mobilization for November? Are you ready to put on another uniform, I hope not?
How ’bout you pony up a little cash to back up your admiration?
If you listen to the MSM, you would think the progressive base was to small.
The Progressive Base elected Obama, because they thought he was a progressive. We have now learned that Obama is a Republican and was always a republican.
Look at the Public Option Poll numbers, the majority of the USA is by far progressive.
Obama and Dems get elected acting and talking like progressives. Once the phony dems get to congress they govern like republicans.
How many conservatives do you meet in an un-employment line? not many
I don’t know what to tell you man, I’m describing what I see. Does it seem to you that Obama has any concern whatsoever about losing dems in November? Why would that be?
Palin and John Bush are both trying to stay on the horizon now.
OK, consider then that the bill youre advocating here actually moves you further away from what you say is your prefered options. Expanding corporate health insurance and making it mandatory is begging for a LOT more trouble than youre already in. Plus, next time you want to give reform a try, youre up against an even mightier enemy.
Ahm, let’s see.
He convinced the SCOTUS that he, and he alone, has the authority to sign a piece of paper declaring a person a “non-person” and therefore ineligible for any and all rights under the Constitution (or any other rights for that matter). He shat on the Constitution even more than Bush/Cheney did.
He loaded down his stimulus bill with tax cuts instead of, you know, stimulus.
He’s “fixing” health care by privatizing it even more, making us all customers, rather than socializing it, like public education.
He’s out campaigning for a bill right now that restricts a woman’s right to choose more than anything since Roe v Wade.
Sounds like a Republican to me. And if you’re still not convinced, then wait until financial “regulation” and/or climate change legislation is being formed.
He’s a Republican, much like a centrist Republican from 20 years ago.
this is not only about HC, it’s about class warfare, and if you cannot decide which side you are on, then who the fuck are you?
I was in the Senate gallery those two days because I thought the murder of the Constitution deserved a witness.
Watching the Senators (including Obama) laughing and glad-handing each other after they each stuck in the knife is something I hope I never forget.
Your question is a good one, but it’s very much like asking “what’s the best opening move in tic-tac-toe?” (or the previously mentioned shell game or three card monte).
The liberating insight is that we need to stop playing this one and create a new game.
Of course he does and if there was no bill, it would guaranteed.
It’s guaranteed now. Do the math.
I know where the American people stand when presented with well explained progressive ideas, but we need numbers, that’s all we’ll ever have to fight money with; numbers and bodies in the Streets, on which a broad self interested movement of progressive ideas can be grown.
Jane,
I don’t know what led me to this community several years ago but I am so proud to be part of it–even more so with what just transpired. We never could have exposed the players in this sorry episode without it and wasted years trying to enlist their support.
I just don’t see that.
We did not get beat.
We learned who our true enemies are, and they run around DC calling themselves Dems.
Macaquerman?
Public Option = Dem position
Excise Tax on Union Health Care Plan = Not Dem position
Drug Importation = Dem position
what dems you know campaigned in 2008 talking about making people pay for Health Insurance with no public option?
Citizen fucknoclass:
Coalition building only takes a few in a few areas, coordinated amongst themselves by the wonders of the internet tubes, Johnny Walker Black Label and the occasional pipefull of smoke. I’ve started back with the county Democratic Party and it’s interestin’ how energizin’ just a few honest workin’ people can be. All politics is local and in the next two years school board elections, union rebuildin with teachers etc. is gunna provide some interestin opportunities.
There’s no such thing as “math hysteria”.
THen you should address that question to folks at places like DKos, because they and folks like them are the ones that have turned not supporting this POS as something akin to eating babies.
You should check out some the things said about Jane.
I’ve said for along time that it’s a shame it’s like this, because I figured we all likely agreed on most other issues and we had more in common than not. I’m just not so sure now, to be honest. They’ve turned nasty in the way they frame those of us that don’t like the bill, and nasty is a big turn off.
It’s also why I want them to own it. If they like it so much that they can resort to the kind of things they’ve said, then they should be proud to own this. All who vote for it and all who support it own it.
And there’s going to come a day when that becomes important. It may not be for awhile, but that day will come when a lot of folks are going to wonder who to trust after they’ve fucked over again and again. It’s important that they know and understand all who did it to them the last time. I’ll do my part from here on out making sure they know who did it this time.
Jeb don’t scare me none. *g* Not yet.
and don’t forget about the eye poppin size of the Jobs Bill. Woohoo, tax breaks for employers – sweet!
well, Kelly, we’ve got a couple of bills piled up from Memorial Sloan-Kettering here, but maybe if we skip the next PET scan and don’t eat much mid-week, we can -sob- use part of the money we got from selling the dog…
Does anyone mean what they say? Even when they don’t “forget themselves”?
jed lewison at daily kos today
“But it’s also true that many progressives (myself included) at one point
conditioned our support for this legislation on the inclusion of the public
option. Our bluff was called, and we lost that battle , at least for
this bill.”
Wait, your bluff was called? You guys were just bluffing? Do you think Rahm knew? Or was it just a lucky guess?
If you have a good hand, as we and the democrats in congress did, with a supermajority in the senate caucus, a large majority in the house, and majority support in the general population for a public option (at least), why on earth would you need to bluff? Unless you’re just a player at heart. Is it okay if i hate the player AND the game? Or are we all Rahm Emanuel now?
Citizen Hamsher:
There are times in the night that I swear Kobe’s visitin’ my two pups sleepin in their kennels. Peace, Sister.
For hiring “unemployed workers.” Who the fuck did they think would be hired? Oh, lemme quit my 60K gig and go apply for this 20.8K job?
Yeah, I saw a news report this afternoon that they expect to create a whole 250k jobs with that bill.
citizen NF,
while under normal historical circumstances of minor democratic hick-ups I would be compelled to agree with you. This is not what we are living through. Obama and the Democratic Party are committing radical revolutionary acts, that will leave generational scars if something more than needle work and pep talking on a local level isn’t done.
Small fixes for big problems, does not suggest to me that you are in fact correctly assessing the current political situation in the global USA.
Citizen SouthernDragon:
I was convinced until this last week that General Betrayus was the next one annointed but after his movin’ the military into a more sane position vis a vis Israel, I’m thinkin’ that the oligarchy is gunna put up another glob of luke warm spit and wait ’til 2016 when things are so bad that they will bring back the ghost of General Ike.
Likely not. Watch and see for yourself, I don’t think it will take long before it’s obvious. The man’s a republican, what does he need dems in congress for?
Who besides the co-opted tradmed thinks the likes of Blanche Lincoln or Joe Lieberman, let alone Lindsey Graham, are “centrist”? A poseur might say he has “midfield” seats because he owns a box on the 20-yard line, but it’s not midfield in any objective sense of the term. Not unless you paid off the refs and moved the goalposts. That that may be happening on the left and right also escapes the tradmed’s attention, presumably because it gets a free pass to sit in those same box seats.
chalks it up to progressives not picking issues that “centrists” care about.
Because 80% of the country wanting a public option just isn’t centist enough is it asshole?
Two months ago we were losing that many every 2 weeks. New unemployment claims are down. Whoopy fuckin’ doo. Just about every concern that can has trimmed their workforce to the bone. Part recession driven part surplus value driven.
Citizen fucknoclass:
Absent a national movement in response to massive dislocation and disenfranchised masses, which hasn’t happened yet, the best thing to do is to get up close and personal with folks you know or get to know and figure out where they’re gunna take you when they get goin’.
citizen Norske,
you need to pick up the pace here, and I’m not addressing your typing skills.
a little bombing run on Iran, and your insights will be wrong in hindsight. Get with the times.
And if you took just half of what’s, just half, of what’s being spent on the Pentagon this year, I’d bet you could do a nice little jobs bill, improving our infrastructure to boot. We need an all new delivery system for our electricity, one that doesn’t waste as much. That could be a hell of a jobs bill to put folks to work, earning money, and then spending that money out on the economy.
He really is an asshole.
I don’t know quite how to take this dude. One day he says something I kinda agree with and the next I’m thinkin’ NFG John Wayner. Don’t trust him any further than I could throw my boss. Interesting study, though.
Matthew Yglesias’ boss is John Podesta, owner of Thinkprogress.org/Center for Amerian Progress. Podesta is a close Obama ally.
Lieberman knows how to stand firm when it counts and how to get out of the spotlight once victory is assured.
Grayson, on the other hand, has folded like a cheap suit rather than stand on principles but still wants to run around and act like he’s won something.
Here are a few quotes from the email I received from him this afternoon:
So, are these 75 cosponors in the House like the 39 signers of the Bennet letter in the Senate, assholes who think that by signing bullshit they can cover their asses for voting FOR this POS mockery of health care reform?
Like there weren’t emails and phone calls made every hour for a year asking Democrats to pass something good that had broad support, but when it came down to it you weren’t there to do what was right and necessary.
YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN! YES WE CAN! (No one look at the fact that I just proved that I – Alan Grayson – didn’t, can’t, and/or just don’t really want to.)
What was your response, Quitter on Real Health Care Reform?
Hide the fact that you’re a loser by declaring yourself the big winner!
Moneybomb!
We didn’t speak loudly or clearly enough for you in Nov 2008? We haven’t spoken loudly or clearly enough since Nov 2008?
The American people were paying close attention to what you’ve been doing, Grayson, and we know who the big losers are.
You should be ashamed of yourself asking for money after you failed so fucking miserably.
Lmao, it’s cracking me up every time I see ‘Citizen fucknoclass’.
: )
Yeah, I just saw that and let out a chuckle too.
Something funny about that.
It almost writes itself!
Gotta go do evening tiger routine.
At ease. Smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em.
Namaste
Citizen NF,
I see “massive dislocation and disenfranchised masses” appearing on the scene any moment now. How is FDL, preparing to take advantage of it? Needlework, and quilting, will only catch you with your pants down.
Yeah but that $1k tax credit to hire unemployed will surely save the economy
I can’t wait to see how that works out.
185, 186,
Jane shares your mirth.
Night, SD.
Ha, ha, ha, ha. Must be someone from the nutmeg state on the federal payroll.
NPR was saying that HCR is the biggest expansion of the “safety net!” since the passage of Medicare. They also pointed out how much it would cut the deficit. No one brought up the issue of how much the deficit would be cut if a public option were included or, heaven forbid, there was actually single payer.
By that time there will be unemployment approaching 30%, bands of tribes roaming the landscape trying to survive and the elites in their well fortified pleasure palaces patrolled by Xe storm troopers. The plutocrats version of a “more perfect union.”
Howard Dean should have formed a third party in 2004 after billionaire S Daniel Abraham stabbed him in the back in the Iowa Primary.
Progressives are NEVER gonna ..er..Progress.. so long as we are tied to a Party that is a Potemkin Village Con Job — DESIGNED to co-opt, subvert, undermine and Sabotage any attempts by the common citizens to reform our dirty politics.
The NY Times sweetly explained it to us back in October 1, 2006 in an article about Howard Dean’s quarrel with Rahm Emanuel. Here’s the money quote:
“The D.N.C. quit doing much of anything in conservative rural states, and the party’s presidential candidates didn’t bother stopping by on their way to more promising terrain. Every four years, the [Democratic] national party became obsessed with “targeting” — that is, focusing all its efforts on 15 or 20 winnable urban states and pounding them with expensive TV ads. The D.N.C.’s defining purpose was to raise the money for those ads. The national party became, essentially, a service organization for a few hundred wealthy donors, who treated it like their private political club. “
My thoughts exactly Allan…
The RWJ report’s scare tactics that, horror of horrors, “people will be uninsured”!!!
As if becoming insured is the solution to all our healthcare problems.
Alas… it is only the beginning of problems.
You think they are suddenly overnight going to be all,
“Hey, you’re sick? We’re here to help!”????
No, they are going to be all
“Oh, so sorry, but it looks like you committed fraud when you did not report teh bee sting back in 1984… looks like we can’t cover you… so sorry!”
Yet even old Tricky Dick signed more left leaning legislation than we have now see out of Team Obama so perhaps the cutoff has to be with the end of the Carter administration. What we have now is pretty much an ultra right compared to 30 years or more. Even the almost, sort of Socialist goes to the Ritz Carlton corporate soirees.
I was one of the most avid Dean fans/supporters ever (and still am)… and know the nyt article of which you speak…
but who is S Daniel Abraham and please describe said stabbing.
thx.
As he sneaks back.
yeah…. it cuts the deficit by having taxpayers do the heavy lifting… we will no pay twice to the criminal insurance companies:
once for our own mandated coverage and again when we pay for the handouts to the insurance companies for those who can’t afford it… great deficit sleight of hand Obama.
fucking bastards.
Exactly so. The whole blame the victim for not being able to stop those the deceive allows those responsible to get off the hook for their misdeeds.
You know EV, I got that very same sense today…
It’s drug out just about the same amount of time…
It was probably postponed from August because “that’s not a good time to roll out a marketing plan” (or words to that effect)…
There’s a part of you that almost thinks for just a nanosecond that maybe it would be a good thing to do… but then you instantly realize that once the legislation is enacted, nothing will ever be the same.
Too many eerily similar patterns and evoked thoughts…
God, how depressing.
Re booyah’s question “Who is S Daniel Abraham and describe [how he stabbed Howard Dean in the back in the 2004 Iowa Primary]:”
1) DEMOCRATIC donor and billionaire S Daniel Abraham was the primary donor behind a 527 accusing Dean of being soft on terrorism in the 2004 Iowa primary. Since a 527 doesn’t have to report until three months have passed, Dean couldn’t even discover WHO was behind the anonymous attacks until well AFTER the primary. hee hee
See Center for Public Integrity’s report “Political Mugging In America”
at http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0306-04.htm
2) S Daniel Abraham is one of the billionaires who think they own the Democratic Party. He is also a big supporter of the Israel Lobby and the attack on Dean occurred after Dean told Joe Lieberman in a primary debate that the US needed to be more evenhanded in the Israel-Palestinian dispute.
3) But S Daniel only gave around a MIllion — if you want to know why Hillary Clinton voted to send 4500+ Americans to their deaths in Iraq, read up on Israeli billionaire Haim Saban at Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haim_Saban
Ole Haim dumped $15 MILLION into the Democratic Party in 2000-2002. Terry McAuliffe said Haim SAVED the Democratic Party.
Note that the anonymous 527 that blew Howard Dean’s Presidential campaign out of the water was run by someone named Robert Gibbs.
Does that ring a bell?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Gibbs
Here’s a link to something about Saban and Clinton.
http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/06/haim_saban.php
Thanks DWTG….
How well I remember the Gephardt backed “Dean is soft on terrorism” ad… the scary one with Osama bin Laden’s disembodied head floating above the fray…
I remember that it came out that Gephardt and kerry were involved… but I did not know about Gibbs’ involvement… which raises all KINDS of conspiratorial questions in my mind… I guess he was pro-Kerry or Gephardt at the time?
Re Abraham… that makes sense cus I also remember Dean’s statement re Israel and Palestine.
I always thought that Dean’s statements about reining in the media had something to do with the fact that they teamed up to bring him down… but the pro-Israel lobby angle also makes sense.
probably a one-two punch…
I am even more disgusted by Gibbs and his boss than I was before…
H. Dean on Rachel Maddow was as much a sellout as Kucinich, and Rachel, as should be obvious by now is a finely tuned psychologically measured propaganda machine.
Oh, and you know how so many of the low-info cohort of the Booster Club at the Orange Place were and are mocking Jane for saying that Rahm’s one of the prime movers in all of this and other issues?
Well, Joe Biden used the occasion of a “roast” to say as a joke what we all know to be true: “‘Senior White House Advisor’ means Rahm.”
Oh Norske, you know we wait for “Citizen fucknoclass”
Mac if Jane has questions about you and wants you on the facebook link then join and get the facebook link to your name.
Also if you want to disagree with Jane on her post expect a firestorm. Many of us have disagreed with Jane at one time or another the speech is free its just not uncontested.
The strongest ideas that survive our debates win thats our way. Say what you want but expect to defend it. Drive by gotta go shopping.
They aver that the entire GOP agrees with Obama on the right of the president to detain people without due process whilst only a subset of the Democratic Party, called “the left,” can be counted as against. At least they show awareness of the fact that the latter party is basically in line with the GOP on the most consequential issues undermining civil liberties. They implicitly anoint Obama a DINO.
Things, Jane knows who I am. She was busting chops, not asking for information.
Um, what?
No, I do not get paid by the post. I really have enjoyed FDL in the past. I hope one day to enjoy FDL again.
Ok its your play.
Jane Hamsher,
In whichever direction the craven shitweasles drive this insanity, please take at least this solace. You are in a class by yourself. As history is written, there will be a few voices that are remembered, Brooksley Born comes to mind, and your indefatigable efforts will ultimately be recognized.
As great a nation as America is, at this moment it is simply not ready for progressive ideas, or even Ms. Wheeler’s strange obsession with the rule of law. Sadly, things will get worse, perhaps much worse, before Americans realize they need one another or understand that autocracy and corporate rule is a problem.
There is probably little value in railing against the corporate/political quislings; they were always there, but this issue has flagrantly exposed them. As tragic as this battle is to lose, any illusions we may have had about the Democratic party have been laid bare.
Now, at least we understand the terrain better, and what it will take to inject the slightest progressive change. No hope and change during this administration, but from these ashes…..
Yes… the most disturbing part of this whole charade has been the “Wizard of Oz” effect when the curtain was pulled back.
Having hidden behind the Busheviks for 8 years with much bluster and bragadoccio about what they woulda, coulda done if not for the dastardly Republicans…
as you say, it is all now laid bare.
I suppose given the triangulation and complete sellout that was Clinton… we should have known… but I confess I really had “believed” Obama would be different, Congress would be different and we would finally, FINALLY, get some justice for average Americans after being sold out for so many years.
I thought about it last night… the ubiquitous blue posters with white letters crying “Change you can believe in!”…. and all that is left is belief… with no substance.
It is not true today that centrists favor the status quo. EVERYONE can see that we are fucked up and only extremists want the status quo. This is why the Party of No Republicans are not picking up the popularity points that the Party of Incrementalist Bullshit Dems are losing. They voted for Mr. Hope and Change because, SURPRISE!, they hoped things would change! I can’t understand why this is so difficult for people. It’s not rocket science to see what they wanted when they voted for the guy who had a very clear and different message or why they are mad when the guy has developed amnesia about that message since he got into office.
Jane, I’d like to suggest for your consideration what we’ve really seen is just how psychopathic the Democratic leadership really is. And how morally orgs like Think Progress are actually the worst of the worst since they are nothing more than dysfunctional enablers.
In the Fox interview Obama said this:
When you talk about 1/6 of the economy. This is one-sixth of the economy that right now is a huge drag on the economy. Now we can fix this in a way that is sensible, that is centrist. I have rejected a whole bunch of provisions that the left wanted that, are, they were very adamant about because I thought it would be too disruptive to the system.”
By what time had he decided that? When he was running and asking for votes saying the opposite? When he personally addressed the kick-off meeting of his Organizing For America push for health care reform last year when he said exactly the opposite? When his administration started attacking progressives and he personally still reaffirmed his support for a public option (several times)?
Then, on the very day the Progressive Change Campaign announced they counted 51 votes for the original HR 4872 reconciliation bill — which included the public option on March 17 when it finally was officially released by the Budget Committee — Pelosi announced the Public Option was definitely out of the reconciliation bill because the Senate wouldn’t support it.
Next, Obama went to Kucinich’s district to address Kucinich’s constituency. He had the audacity to mention Kucinich in his appearance in a way that clearly invited the implicature that he (Obama) cared about the working and poor people in Kucinich’s district and Kucinich didn’t.
Finally, in today’s interview with Amy Goodman, Kucinich said one thing that jumped out as utterly contrary to his decision to support the bill. Unfortunately, Amy and Juan missed it and perhaps squandered a chance to ask a question that could have changed everything. Kucinich said:
And it became clear to me that, despite my best efforts, I wasn’t going to be able to get it in the bill and that I was going to inevitably be looking at a bill that—where I was a decisive vote and that I was basically, by virtue of circumstances, being put in a position where I could either kill the bill or let it go forward and—in the hopes that we could build something from the ruins of this bill.
What political leader who finds himself with the singular power to stop a bill that represents everything counter to the honorable core values he (and anyone who claims to embrace the best of what it means to be a Democrat) stands for, walks away from that? What could possibly explain something that contradictory to the very essence of why good (and bad) people aspire to political careers?
Try this hypothesis out: Kucinich grew up poor, moved 21 times and even lived in a car. His entire political career has been true to defending values of social justice and equity. What, in the facts we know now, contradicts the possibility that the Democratic establishment decided to hurt Kucinich in the only way they possibly could? Is it out of the realm of possibility that they emotionally blackmailed him, telling him they would make sure poor and working people in his district and across the country would pay the price if he didn’t cave, and that they would use every means at their disposal to make sure that his name and the name of every Democrat who actually stands up for what is right along with him is forever attached to that? In fact, they wouldn’t even have to actually do much, just make sure that every time they follow their true inclinations to screw over working and poor people they turn up the propaganda machine to lay the blame on Kucinich and those who side with him.
Add to this how utterly clueless the Democratic establishment seems to be about how the public actually feels about them, exactly as a psychopath would.. They live in a self-enforced cocoon into which only polls and the mutual validation of “Democratic” interest groups intrudes. They demonstrate no obvious moral character that prevents them from doing whatever it takes to win. They believe their ends justify any means.
I wish Amy and Juan had asked directly whether Kucinich was emotionally blackmailed in this fundamental and outrageous way. But in the next two days, the public still can.
I have kind of decided my mission is to make sure that people know who to blame for this as well. I don’t want anyone thinking this is a progressive bill because that makes it look like we are the ones who are either mind-numbingly stupid, batshit insane or hopelessly corrupt. I was on jury duty today and a discussion of text messaging turned into a discussion on politics as we all waited in the big jury room. There were “Nancy Pelosi is a dictator” people and “rich white men are fucking up the country” people (yes, those are direct quotes) who obviously didn’t agree on much. But when it came around to two issues, every single person agreed. The two issues? The health care bill is a disaster and all politicians of both parties are bought and sold and should be thrown out. The link? Everyone agreed that when times were good, people just didn’t pay much attention, but when times were bad and we were all wondering how this health care thing was going to go (whether because you were worried about becoming Soviet Russia or because you were worried about being uninsured and uninsurable in the current system), we paid attention. Anyone paying attention who didn’t have an agenda to color their views saw a hugely dysfunctional and corrupt system. Not that it matters that so many want money out of politics any more than it matters that so many want a public option, but it’s eye opening all the same to see how people are taking all of this.
Sister Jane,
What Congress is exhibiting is a Moral Hazard here. If one gives a chance to mis-use probability is high it will be mis-used. On top of that AHIP is hardly a paragon of virtue. Fact is most of the congress members are not super-rich. Future AHIP executives will become more ruthless to mis-use individual mandates because of peer pressure to meet numbers at wall street and these congressmen and congresswomen grand-children will suffer at the hands of those executives along with rest of their countrymen.
I hope congress understand this fact before putting up a MISSION ACCOMPLISHED Banner on this crap bill.
If they get this fact straight they would not suffer with guilt on this vote till end of their lives and our future generation will avoid a miserable future.
Hola from Madison. Back when it was starting to become clear this place was not interested in seeing a bill ass and allowing the hated Obama administration a major victory I said to myself, ‘before this is over, they’re going to be coming after Baldwin.’ I wasn’t sure the day would come, and knew it would be surreal if it did, and I was right. If the world you see is one in which Tammy Baldwin is an egregiously moderate corporate shill who perhaps needs to be primaried, you are living in one seriously out-there galaxy.
The progressive effort has not failed. As far right (wrong) as this country swung during the last eight years. When Pat Buchanan appears to represent the middle you know the pendulum swung. Our Reps held out as long as they could. Keep pushing.
The Public option, expansion of medicare will be revisited. The WHEN will be up to how hard we push.
I heard Howard Dean (live and lie) and Karl Rove just lie at a debate at Unive of Colorado last month. HOward Dean is a complete warmonger on Iran and completely sold out on the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Third Party leader…Not going to work. He is no different than Micheal Ledeen on these critical issues