Dave Weigel isn’t a journalist, he’s a smear-monger that makes things up and projects his own fantasies onto his stories:
I spoke to Kathryn A. Serkes of the Doctor Patient Medical Association at this morning’s rally against the health care bill, after Serkes had addressed the smallish crowd.
“I’m in contact with folks on the progressive side,” said Serkes. “They’re saying right now that Pelosi’s almost there with the votes. What they’re saying is that there’s some serious arm-twisting — their words were ‘union thuggery.’ One progressive source told me that there was serious union thuggery this weekend, targeting Rep. Jason Altmire (D-Pa.).”
The source, she said, was Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake, a liberal blog that’s also paid for polls in some Democratic districts asking voters whether “aye” votes on health care reform would help or hurt their re-election chances. “She said that they’re very close — [liberal blogs] are better at keeping a tab on it. And I think Pelosi’s very close. I think we’re right at the edge.”
I know Katherine, we were on MSNBC together and we’ve spoken about working on the pot legalization measure in California in the future. She tells me that when Weigel approached her and asked her who her “source” was, she didn’t say. He said “It’s Jane Hamsher, isn’t it…I’ve been around.” According to Katherine, she didn’t respond.
Weigel decided to print his own suspicions as fact, and didn’t bother to contact me for confirmation. It’s a pattern with him.
Weigel goes on to accuse me of using the words “union thuggery,” in quotes. He completely put words in my mouth. That is a totally fabricated quote.
I’m not “working” with the tea partiers on health care. But Weigel doesn’t care about the truth — any reporter would’ve contacted me first before printing something like that. He’s just a fantasist printing propaganda, and the Washington Independent has no higher standards than to print it.
I guess trading in political smears is something their donors approve of.
Update I: I found an email from Weigel. Timestamped minutes before he posted, when I was in a meeting.
Update II: Weigel now accuses me of “making up quotes.” This is how Katherine related her exchange with Weigel to me, I didn’t “make up” anything:
In my speech was trying to make a point about bipartisan opposition and I said to the crowd “now I want to say something to you and I don’t want to boo me, but there are liberals on the left and progressives who are very much against this bill too. They think that an individual mandate is immoral. We think it’s unconstitutional, but we’re saying the same things, so when we go tell the Democrats that their own constituents who oppose this as well.” Transpartisan, transpartisan, transpartisan.
Afterwards, Weigel was talking to Amy Kramer, and I went up to them. Amy left, and he recognized me from Grover Norquist’s meeting and asked me about the votes. And I said “well, I’m hearing from the left that Pelosi is very close. And I said it seems to me that the folks on the left are going to have a more accurate count than our side will.”
He said “well who’s your source.” I just looked at him. He said “Is it Jane Hamsher?” I said “what makes you think that? He said something to the effect of, “I’ve been around.”
Then I was talking about votes. I said “look, my thought is, if I were a Democrat and I was planning on voting “no,” I’m not sure if I would announce it because I didn’t want to take a beating. Then I talked about the union stuff — the arm twisting that was going on, Altmire was a target — that’s what I remember of it.
But I didn’t say anything like “I’m working with Jane Hamsher.” We talk about things…we talk about stuff, and we’re also talking about marijuana and hemp legalization. These are “conversations.” I’m a professional person who’s been doing professional policy work. I represent a nonpartisan professional association.
My “source” on where the vote stands is Dave Dayen’s daily column. Katherine says that if he was taping the conversation, he did so without her knowledge.
Update III: Weigel has now posted the audio tape of his conversation with Katherine Serkes at the Tea Party event, in which he does not inform her that he was taping her. The recording confirms that she did use my name, however. I’ve asked Weigel twice now if at any point prior to this segment he informed her that she was being recorded, and he has not responded.
It’s certainly legal for Weigel to do this. But attending a Tea Party event and taping attendees without their knowledge, then posting that tape to discredit them in support of passing the health care bill, sounds more like the actions of a Democratic political operative. Which, again, is pretty standard operating procedure for both parties. But Weigel presents himself as a “journalist” who covers the conservative movement. Yet he used the information he surreptitiously gathered at a conservative event to upbraid someone for so much as speaking to a participant. He erroneously concluded this constituted “working together,” in the absence of any evidence, and breathlessly promoted his story without fact checking it. The tape was quickly picked up and widely trumpeted by the JournoList set in an attempt to marginalize and discredit event attendees, who trusted Weigel and thought they were speaking in confidence to a fellow conservative who attends Grover Norquist’s weekly meeting.
For the record, I don’t think Weigel is a Democrat, or that he ascribes to any particular ideology. He wrote for Reason Magazine for years and called himself a libertarian, but the health care bill he vigorously supports is just about as non-libertarian as it gets. Rather, he aspires to be a member of a cliquish, insider set with the moral flexibility to align themselves with anyone in power. But if he’s going to cover political events, he should acknowledge up front that he is not there as an objective observer.



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Wow, just wow.
I hope the MSNBC hosts who have this little bug on their programs take note of this. It’s just horrid.
You should be flattered they’re taking the time to discredit you, Jane. Anyone that opposes the Democratic establishment must of course be a right-wing Tea Party proto-fascist. Anyone opposing Obama’s bill must by default be an insipid tool of Republican partisanship.
“If you’re not with us, you’re again’ us.”
Look at the bright side: at least they can’t target you with negative attack ads or threaten to run hopeless stooges against you in bitter primary battles for having the courage of your convictions. They save that treatment for the politicians.
And whatever attacks they make against you can only make you stronger. If no one else wants to step up and say that Obama isn’t doing a great job representing the values of the Democratic Party, then that’s just a bigger opening for FDL.
The first two bullet points of The Independent’s ‘ethics’ tab:
# Ensure the accuracy of all information, regardless of where it comes from. Review facts and stories. Never knowingly publish false information.
# Give all the public the chance to respond to news stories, particularly those who might be accused of wrongdoing. Keep an open dialogue with the public.
You lie when the truth can’t get you what you want. You lie when you know your case is weak. But without the fear of 9/11 you can’t expect Bush sized lies to work on America.
You need Fear to get people to react first without thinking about what you say.
Lets see Dave pull an e mail from Jane to back up his claim of talking to Jane? Lets see him pull a voice tape I’m sure most reporters tape stuff unless its off the record. And when has Jane ever been off the record she needs material tons of it for her posts.
So if HCR is such a great thing, then why can’t people figure it out for themselves. Shouldn’t women be glad to Roe v. Wade overturned so they can fall under a mandate to buy corporate insurance?
Why is something so good having so much trouble finding popular support? You would think with the endorsements it has it would be a shoe in and President would be playing golf in Hawaii or touring nuclear plants in the South. Is that nuclear plant thing just a way to get at the Republican voters down south?
Oh well, at least the end being so close is smoking out the not so real guys who have been riding around in the real guys’ wagon. Some of them will get put out to walk.
You’re tireless Jane and thank you,
Conrad C. Elledge
Why would Jane talk to this hack and give him a scoop? Logically wouldn’t she keep the scoop for herself or give it to a Lefty reporter?
Whats next Dave you and Karl Rove had tea with Jane and thats when she gave you the scoop?
In what world does Jane say the words “Union Thuggery?”
I’m smelling Rahm again Obvious lies are his Dept.
I assume you’ll be speaking to Wiegel’s editor and demanding a complete retraction?
Anybody who knows you/reads your work, Jane, would know the words “union thuggery” would never, never come out of your mouth.
I can’t imagine that any “liberal” person would use the phrase, for that matter—I associate it with the Tea Partiers and other wingnuts.
I had had a decent impression of Weigel – not any more.
When people like this approach you with their lies, you need to shout them down. Don’t just come on here, after NOT SAYING ANYTHING and complain on the blog. Tell him he’s a LIAR and a TERRORIST. Forget about the truth. He doesn’t care, you already know that. The next time you go on MSNBC, bring this stuff up- name the guy, and tell the world he’s lying to the American people.
http://washingtonindependent.com/79427/a-quick-response-to-jane-hamsher
What this leadup to the vote reminds me of is the leadup to the vote on the invasion of Iraq. Whole lot of people being shoved into doing what they knew the should not do and yet they do it anyway.
Wonder if Hillary would like to have had her Iraq vote back when candidate Barry was beating her over the head with it. You know he never actually voted against the war and when he talks about something it is not really a bankable commodity–the talk I mean.
So these house members don’t have to look too far back to grasp the importance of a single vote. The health insurance industry is in a death spiral and this legislation isn’t going to save them only damage us and the hapless lawmakers who get tied to it. Everybody knows what better is so why settle?
VTY,
CCE
What do you expect when the HCR Bill can’t carry the day on its substance? I just heard “Ed” tv misrepresenting polls & badmouthing Dems who won’t go along; it’s reprehensible what’s going on. This has nothing to do with Jane & team or the campaign FDL has run, it’s the way we argue in the times we live in. What better reason to vote “for” something than because the other side is worse than words can describe?
Turns out Obama is very capable. Too bad he’s not more moral, ethical or honest.
My response to all who refuse to keep quiet when they should is, “If this HCR Bill is so good why is implementation of beneficial elements delayed so long?”
Anyone read about Katie Spotz? Now THAT is worth talking about!
We have an update. What’s his face has a TAPE RECORDING! It is the village.
The Washington Independent does not allow postings on its “blog”.
His defense was that Jane didn’t respond within 16 minutes?
There’s something seriously wrong with that transcript if what he wrote later is to be believed. At the very least, it would seem that Weigel is unable to recognize sarcasm when he hears it.
Using quotes implying Jane said Union Thuggery is dishonest when Dave said it.
So Serkes talked to this reporter and said that Jane told her the unions are leaning on undecided House members to pass HCR. No one says Jane used the words “union thuggery.”
What Serkes is saying is: (a) the truth about union political activity; and (b) nothing you couldn’t get from reading the front page of FDL. What kind of source could Jane be for Serkes telling her completely obvious things about what’s going on re: HCR? Even if you take Serkes at face value (and that’s doubtful, because it sounds like she was just trotting out a progressive name to denounce the unions) there’s nothing here.
What’s the story here? It’s not like Jane is plotting secret strategy with this group. Total non-issue.
Forget transcript tell him to put the voice recording on the net.
Serkes is a Pro Choice Dem I seriously doubt she would say Union Thuggery when she is on the same side as the Unions on this. What Progressive Source calls Unions Thugs. Unless Rahm is a Progressive source? Even Koz wouldn’t stoop that low would he?
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Heh-heh, you go woman!!! But what makes you think that Serlkes didn’t know exactly where Weigel would go with this thing, she jest let ‘im run with it. Remember that these folks are all of a piece, they’re liars, con artists, bagmen and thugs so it shouldn’t surprise you when they do what they do…but this is where you live,Sister Jane, they should know better’n ta print sumpthin that is so easily tossed back into their laps to explode. But I simply MUST give a a little pinch here about the Tea Baggers, just remember that gettin’ close ta the tea Baggers in any context under any conditions is like gettin’ too close ta mangy dogs: you ken get fleas and some real nasty diseases. And of course you won’t get invited for cocktails and weinies with the Villagers.
Take ‘em apart, dear heart, I’d love ta see BOTH you and Weigel on Rachel’s show tanight!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, A LITTLE BIT HERE AND A LITTLE BIT THERE AND PRETTY SOON YA GOT A LITTLE BIT!
I’m not doubting Frank33′s reporting of what Dave said I’m doubting Dave.
And in what universe does a reporter tell anyone what Jane thinks or knows? Whatever else you might say about Jane, needing reporters to ferret out second party sources to figure out what she’s thinking isn’t one of them. But, hey, Jane told me that she has a secret crush on Rahm Emmanuel, so now can I get a by-line and act all important?
Weigel obviously recognizes how weak that is; he apologizes in his post for not giving Jane more time.
To me, Weigel’s mistake is portraying what Serkes said as anything other than one person’s unreliable claims.
According to Weigel’s account of his tape, Serkes said (of Jane): “Their words were union thuggery.” That, apparently, was a lie by Serkes to Weigel.
It also looks like Serkes lied to Jane in saying she didn’t identify Jane to Weigel.
Seems pretty clear who the real villain of this piece is. IMO, Jane and Weigel both erred in giving her more respect/trust than she deserved.
Her being even ok with the phrase Union Thuggery being spoken to her could cost her Union support and her seat. Imagine if Obama was ok with a reporter saying the N word. I am still doubting everything this guy said politicians are careful about what they say.
Unless you believe Ron Paul really had nothing to do with his racist newsletter printed in his name.
What is Serlkes comment on what was really said?
I was trying to back Jane in my comment did I give you the impression I was doing otherwise?
Jane, I love ya. Keep up the good work. This guy sounds like a girly man to me. Its been my experience that in our culture honesty always gets attacked. During tough times like now I always go back to the memory of MLK. What a man. Can you imagine him being alive the last 30 years. He would be 80 years old now and would have had a field day in my opinion opposing this fascist health insurance bailout. Hell with him I believe we might of got Medicare for All. Too bad the fascists gunned him down. We will win in the end though. History is the inevitable forward progress of progressivism moving forward. Jesus is progressive. He told me.
Lets hear the tape first. After all 16 minutes to respond yeah Dave really did not want confirmation. Heck I can poop longer than that.
Citizen Swopa:
See my comment at #21…Weigel AND Serkes are playin’ “corporate journalism” and by definition they are, then, “liars, con artists, bagmen and thugs”. And Jane can play these little shills like Jimmi Hendrixx played the guitar…the next step is to get Rachel Maddow to invite all three onto her show tanight!
Granted, but judging from the update, wouldn’t Dave Weigel be justified in asking why Jane called him a “professional fantasist” and a “smear-monger” before checking her own email?
This looks to me like a case where two hasty wrongs make a big, ugly mess.
I don’t know, if you read the updates to Jane’s post, it seems like Weigel is trying to make people think that events happened according to a script he’s made up in his head, beforehand.
Who is to say Dave didn’t rush the *cough * story from Serkes before her and jane could both confirm. Isn’t sending a copy of what you print a public official says and getting their ok common practice in the Washington beltway?
No reporter would do this to a Bushie.
This is from Dave, about 4 minutes ago.
Nope he rushed his story without checking with Jane. Jane is the wronged party she has to defend her Rep. Dave would never have responded to Jane until the story already was old like next week.
We can’t let lies go unchallenged even for a minute the Swift Boaters and Kerry taught us that.
Lanny’s Legions are coming unglued. Hang in there.
serkes sounds like a tea partier to me – someone who’d use “union thuggery’ with abandon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oJYb9j0BYo
she addressed a tea party in lancaster, PA.
I think you owe Katherine an apology, Norske. She’s not a “teabagger.” Or a Republican. She’s a policy person and a representative of a nonprofit professional association who regularly testifies before state legislatures.
This obsession of yours is getting the better of you.
Less a smear, more me trying to figure out why her response post is dated more than an hour before my original post.
The entire world isn’t on EDT, you fucking moron.
Citizen Swopa:
The deal is, Rahm or some other corporatist gobblin planted this whole thing…that’s why Rachel or Olbermann should get Serkes and Weigel AND Jane on the big screen TV in our livingrooms. In order to unwind this nasta little set-to, Serkes and Weigel, or at least Wegel would hafta diclose who put ‘im onto the story in the first place or suffer public humiliation in bein’ exposed in a complete fabrication…and if Weigel has “cover” from somethin’ Serkes actually said, then SHE paints the pro-healthcare people as desperate liars and shills for ObamaRahma.
Put the lyin bastards on TV with Sister Jane and let ‘em chase each other around the set until they turn inta pancake batter.
Mr. Weigel’s “correction“:
Since his characterizations of Jane, FDL and of Serkes are central to his breathless story, one would think he’d pull it and revise it, rather than add a bracketed “update” to it.
His source for Jane’s purported involvement is now “anonymous”, and he avoids indicating how little time he gave Jane between sending her an e-mail and posting his story, which leaves the impression she simply refused to comment rather than that he gave her no time in which to do so.
Someone told Jane what he was going to write who saw it obviously after all how else would Jane know exactly what he was going to write?
I’m guessing if the times Dave gives are right then Jane has a spy?
But I doubt Dave’s claims about the time.
Why because the Motherless Scrot Muncher already lied! Once a witness in court is shown to have lied then the jury can assume everything he says is a lie.
Shouldn’t the Press be held to the same standard??
Not angry at you Frank33 just Dave.
Citizen Hamsher:
My remark about tea baggers was in reference to YOU dear: “I’m not working with tea baggers on healthcare.” It was a little friendly snark…and as for Serkes, either she IS lyin’ about what she said or she’s not and she let Weigel run off knowin’ where he was goin’…come on Jane…this is your game on your field and you’re tough enough not to be blinded by loyalty to any of the “playas”.
why does kathryn serkes hate the government?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgS1bJ3UsbE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhpAQV6GLTI
Jane you know her its your call still I stand by the idea Dave lied about you.
Because anyone who cared about getting at the truth, rather than just running with their own fantasies, would’ve waited for a reply. Unless there’s some tremendous “news value” to his “scoop” that required pushing the “print” button instantaneously.
Given his history of distortions and misrepresentations with regard to FDL, that probably would’ve been the prudent course of action for his editor to insist upon. We would’ve made someone wait for a response at FDL, but I guess we just have higher standards than the Windy. They, after all, tweeted the “union thuggery” quote themselves — even after they knew it wasn’t true. Traffic!
Weigel is not a journalist. He’s a beat-off who just can’t wait to slam that porno tape in the VCR so all his buddies can high-five him while they watch him jack off all over the Washington Independent.
I can agree with that:)
FDL is on Pacific Time.
What a dumbshit Weigel is. Truly.
Time for a post on
Honestly I have never heard of this guy before and I’m a regular here just how small time is he? T-Rex went after small time Ann Althouse is Dave lower on the food chain than that?
I didn’t notice that either my bad :(
Over at Orange, Jane, they think you’re a racist. The whole strategy is insane.
Don’t forget it takes on average about 2 minutes from the time you send an email for the other person to get it depending on settings. So he gave her about 10 minutes to reply
If you were angry with me, then you would have to stand in line. But I do not think it is a conspiracy. It is just the usual Dee Cee stabbing in the back, while smiling to their face. FDL is among the vanguard which means they get targeted first. But as for journalism, this is closer to cognitive infiltration.
I can accept your theory I still like mine a bit better we will see if Dave brings in the tape and or his source who’s right.
Interesting term please define it as you understand it.
Citizen Frank33:
“Cognitive infiltration”…wow if that’s somethin’ bad then it’s REALLY bad!! Couldn’tcha get arrested under the Patriot Act for doin’ “cognitive infiltration”? As for me, it’s simply the product of “liars, con artists, bagmen and thugs”.
It’s also possible to tell what time zone the e-mail server is in by just checking the raw header information. If the Independent has any data processing people on its staff, they should be able to help Weigel with that.
Here’s an example string from some junk e-mail I received today:
That “-0700″ means “minus seven hours from GMT”, which is either PDT or MST (IOW, Arizona).
It ain’t rocket science.
That’s absolutely amazing.
If Weigel made a tape of that conversation without permission, is he liable under DC’s wiretap laws?
Assuming the send/receive cycle on her e-mail client is once a minute. Mine is every ten minutes. Conceivably, I’d have been receiving such an e-mail a minute or two before the thing was published, even assuming things were working properly.
Same here. I keep my email client open to my own subdomain and it reloads my inbox every ten minutes. I’ve been doing that since college, when they didn’t want you to constantly poke the campus email server, which was ancient, and email isn’t supposed to be an instananeous medium anyway.
Expecting someone to see email and respond to it within a 15 minute timeframe or else is absurd and narcissistic. Jane’s not on call to this jackass. The sense of entitlement is astounding.
Frank33 you are reporting what Dave is saying I think he’s a liar so I attack him I just wanted to be clear that I’m not attacking you.
“She’s a policy person and a representative of a nonprofit professional association who regularly testifies before state legislatures.”
according to this video (posted by whataretheysmoking) her position appears to ignore insurance as culprit, and happily lay the blame squarely on government. (regulation).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oJYb9j0BYo
Jane a Racist then why do I blog here? Why does Jane let me blog here? Koz has some nuts to straighten out.
If Weigel made a tape of that conversation without permission, is he liable under DC’s wiretap laws?
No. DC is a one-party consent “state”.
My $.02: He certainly should have waited for a reply, but if he does have the recording that reflects the conversation as he reported it, well, that doesn’t look good for Serkes’ credibility.
I wandered back over to Dkos where I used to be a regular and they are accusing Jane of being in cahoots with Grover Norquist, the Tea Partiers, Dennis Kucinich, and the devil himself. Sad to see, but I concluded most kossacks are bandwagon followers or delusional youngsters with more enthusiasm than analytical skills. A few months ago they were totally upset with the idea of using reconciliation on the grounds that it was immoral or something. Consistency and logic aren’t necessary qualities for many over there. Even Slinkerwink, who had been leading the charge for single-payer over there for months and was completely devastated when the public option was abandoned, is now completely onboard with the Senate bill after initially calling for it’s defeat. Even Kos initially called for the defeat of this bill but later came to the conclusion that it was better politics for the Dems to pass it than not – i.e., more political expediency that sells out Americans to corporations in exchange for some imaginary political benefit. I’ve given up on them for now but am disappointed they have given in to the Obama DLCers who used to be their mortal enemies. Sad.
What’s really crazy is that he could have published, with the caveat that he hadn’t heard from Jane yet, nor gotten confirmation from Serkes that the story was accurate. Waiting until at least one of those things happened would have been a better idea, but neither idea appears to have occurred to Weigel.
Valid point but let Jane defend her she knows this person. I’ve defended a few so called racists here in the comments who I knew were not. Its Jane’s choice to make a defense.
Only if he produces the tape sans evidence otherwise well we already know he’s a liar so nothing he says can be trusted.
Perhaps because he knew he would not get confirmation?
He probably thinks this makes him a beat reporter.
Here’s “hoping” that you’ll start a campaign to send Dave some Kleenex.
And from what we know of Dave, he’ll probably want to make his own special donation.
i sure don’t trust his transcript… if he has the tape, let the rest of us hear it so we can judge for ourselves.
Agreed – thus my use of the word “if”. I probably should have made it explicit that I, too, would like to hear the recording, if he wants folks to believe him.
Seconded!
Wait, isn’t Kos the devil? I’m confused.
“Even Kos initially called for the defeat of this bill but later came to the conclusion that it was better politics for the Dems to pass it than not – i.e., more political expediency that sells out Americans to corporations in exchange for some imaginary political benefit.”
Fuck Koss, but when the better part of Democratic elites like Kuttner, and Reich make their cases for policy on the basis of politics, – then I believe they have abandoned the moral universe.
They are all closet Randians, it seems.
No, I enjoy your contributions. I just jumped over to WI because I was trying to see if they allowed posts. No they do not. But I was hoping to be first but Swopa got the zed on this. I think this is a smear job, and Jane is doing what she must, defending herself from this weasel. (My apologies to weasels.)
Sorry should have realized the if dealing with lying Motherless Scrott Munchers gets me angry.
If you think Lawrence ODonnell or Rachel Maddow are going to do anything in the next five days to piss off Rahm Emanuel, you are not paying attention. Didn’t you see how shocked Larry was about Michael Moore’s characterization of Dennis Kucinich’s NO vote last night?
MSNBC has their instructions: pass the damn bill.
I just pointed out a perceptional incongruity. Not attacking.
I agree, but he seems to have been stymied by the complex nature of time zones in e-mail. Could he digitize the recording successfully? Are we sure we wouldn’t end up with ten minutes of black metal at half speed?
Reporting what the other side says is a very important but thankless job. Sometimes people mistake the reporter’s reports for the reporters actual views I just wanted to make sure you and Swopa didn’t get hit in the crossfire I was raining down on Dave.
I doubt Weigel can wipe his ass successfully.
As for a functional human being, it should be a process of at most five minutes. And that’s if you have to record it using line-out and the mic input… if Weigel was using a modern digital recorder it’s probably drag and drop.
So maybe an intern could do it for him.
No its Valid but Jane’s defending so its up to her to make a case.
Oh my gosh, from 5 minutes ago Dave:
I assume Jane will talk to her first before she writes good or bad.
Are we sure we wouldn’t end up with ten minutes of black metal at half speed?
That was funny.
Now I’m picturing a teabagger convention at a Slayer show on instant replay.
So both your sources won’t confirm but you have the tape right? Yet despite the tape you withdraw the quote?
but now you have reason to doubt FDL do the words reasons why mean anything to you?
We think your a liar. You withdrew the quote because you could not back it up so just what have we done to give you cause to doubt us Dave.
Please list your reasons.
I’m thinking Slayer played backwards so we can hear Dave the Prince of Lies true voice:)
My apologies to Slayer fans I don’t wish to compare Slayer to Dave.
Weigel is not a journalist. He’s a beat-off who just can’t wait to slam that porno tape in the VCR so all his buddies can high-five him while they watch him jack off all over the Washington Independent.
Not to go too far OT but I already have my own issues with WI. As I pointed out, there was a Detroit News story on Jan. 27, which reported that the Underwear Bomber had been aided and abetted by US Intelligence Officials.
Except for a few blogs, this story was quickly disappeared. WI claims expertise in National Security but its crackerjack government watchdog reporters ignored the astonishing revelation. They frequently use anonymous sources to support the National Security memes of the villagers.
But WI continued to report on the “Christmas Bomber” story knowing that an airline was put at risk by our own spies, but not revealing it. The government wants this story to go away and WI has not objected.
Hamsher denied ever using the phrase, and Serkes said she misspoke to me and meant that other progressive sources were using that phrase. I cut her some slack and let her revise her statement. Now, turn your attention back to the wildly false statements Hamsher has made. Thanks!
Citizen Teddy Partridge:
Yeah, there IS that…I’ve seen the bended knees the last week.
Name them, buddy. Name one. With proof.
You’ve already been caught once before slinging bull about her.
Does the phrase “put up or shut up” ring a bell?
we here in the reality based world rely on facts — unlike you sir.
prove your accusation with some links or else it will just be considered to be just another dave weigel lie
He won’t. He can’t.
We need a better class of serial liar. This is Pant-Loadian at best.
He’s rather stupid as well. His entire story is bullshit — premised on the idea that I’m “working” with people on the right to destroy health care for the benefit of the GOP. Not to mention the fact that he can’t read a timestamp.
I know what I did. I called the woman and I printed what she told me. I already know what his story was — you just need a box of kleenex to wipe down your screen after you read it.
Maybe he should explain why he’s the one at Grover Norquist’s meetings, if I’m the one working with the right? I’ve never been. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it mind you, I know other liberal bloggers who have gone, but if we’re going with the “where there’s smoke there’s fire” argument (which forms the foundation for all of Weigel’s blowup doll fantasies), it appears he doesn’t have the stones to apply that yardstick to himself.
Hey, pal, your original title was:
That was a cheap and dishonest shot. And then your original story went on to more of the same type of disingenuous, slanted tripe from there. You rushed out after giving a whole ten minute window for a response to an email; you did not use modern telephony to try to be accurate, you rushed out to make a petty little hit. Now you have backtracked on just about everything and have the audacity to whine like a baby that you want an apology? Get a grip and grow up. Try investing some of your salary on some journalistic ethics training too.
Very good catch lets see Dave defend his and his publisher’s record.
OK: “I’m not ‘working’ with the tea partiers on health care.” Just, you know, talking strategy with them, and appearing on TV with them. But not “working” with them!
Produce the tape on the net
List those statements please with links.
Maybe he should explain why he’s the one at Grover Norquist’s meetings, if I’m the one working with the right?
Because I’m a reporter who covers the conservative movement. Please, this is pathetic.
Follow up Post Jane!!!
what’s the matter dave?
you get in trouble by your bosses for being caught in a lie so now you are here trying to push some buttons to find a ‘gotcha’?
I’m serious Jane.
An FDL campaign to supply Dave with Kleenex. Boxes and boxes of Kleenex. Delivered by FedEx ’cause Dave’s in a hurry to…finish.
Why you could even have the delivery filmed by some of FDL’s intrepid best. A video of Dave might be NSFW, but that wouldn’t be news on the Internet.
Hey, everyone – let Weigel just riff, claim he has the goods and the ethics, and fail to produce. Miserably.
It won’t be long now.
This is going to be great, and on the record.
Dave -
You stated in the comments (here, in reply to a JenJen) that you are willing to post the audio if Jane ‘continues to accuse Dave Weigel of “projecting his own fantasies onto his stories”‘. It would seem like a good time for you to do so, if you wish to be taken at your word.
And they always have lots and lots of Kleenex.
If that’s your proof and level of analysis, don’t give up your day job, and don’t plan on making a living coming up with credible analogies.
Ankle biter to power.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Forcing everyone to buy health insurance is a bailout to the insurance companies thats what Jane objects to if I may speak for her. Plus it cost us Ted’s seat!
When Obama acts like a Republican When Obama who campaigned on the Public Option goes against what we voted him to do then yes we get angry.
National Healthcare costs less and the people live longer frankly I’m angry at Jane for settling on the Public Option because it cost more and gives less care.
In France the people eat drink and smoke as much or more than we do but they live longer for less cost we have decades worth of proof.
Now before you go all racist remember Asians and Hispanics live longer than Whites.
You’re missing the point of why she brought up that point. That is pathetic. What I don’t know is whether it’s because you honestly don’t understand that, or that you do understand that and simply are ignoring it.
Didn’t you know? I book MSNBC myself. I choose who I appear with. Yes, I have that kind of power.
It’s unsettling just how thoroughly and completely stupid he is. Even your average lumpen couch potato knows more about how cable news works.
Seconded Very Nice catch!
You are not a reporter and we probably get more readers at FDL than your paper does. Not smart to lie.
Eli is upstairs!
Bathtub America Sloshes Into New Jersey
So “covering the conservative movement” involves spinning silly and easily-debunked fantasies about Jane Hamsher?
You remember that one, right? You said, in your piece headlined “Did Fire Dog Lake Take Out Vic Snyder?”, this:
Jane replied, in part:
But it wasn’t just Jane you were misreporting. Here’s what you said about Nate Silver’s reaction:
Interestingly, just as when you failed just now, even after being asked, to provide hard cites with links for your allegations concerning Jane, you failed to link to the Nate Silver piece where he, according to you, raised the question you posited.
Could this be why:
Keep digging that hole, Mr. Weigel. Keep right on ahead with digging it.
LOL! I may be needing some of that Kleenex myself. *g*
You rank up there with Darth and mini me Darth on the news show power scale/s Bwahahaha Dave’s logic should know better than that cause if that were true you would never be contradicted no matter what you said.
Just how many times has Darth and Daughter lied and the Main Stream Media never corrected it on air.
come on Dave how many times has Jane lied on air?
I want video links.
Your third quote is an example of Weigel’s penchant for Orwellian misstatement. It is the Democratic Party establishment that hopes to scare up enough votes to pass woefully flawed, corporatist empowering legislation.
FDL is trying to hold Congresscritters’ feet to the fire of public opinion when they reverse themselves on their pledges while taking money from people whose interests they oppose through their votes.
Twain we got better more truthful reporters in the diaries who have never been front paged Dave wouldn’t survive the comments here with this reporting.
Hamsher denied ever using the phrase, and Serkes said she misspoke to me and meant that other progressive sources were using that phrase. I cut her some slack and let her revise her statement.
BWAAAAAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Aren’t you just the sweetest thing? See, if I were a reporter and I actually “had the goods” – i.e., a tape recording of someone saying what I reported them saying – there’s no fucking way in hell I’d be “cutting… some slack” and letting the subject “revise her statement” and leave me holding the bag. For two reasons: ego (if I’m right, I’m right) and journalistic ethics. I’m thinking you’ve got plenty of the former, none of the latter, and egg all over your face.
Great point!
If Dave keeps his job after this then I think he’s sleepin with the boss.
Yeah. Where did he learn his journalism ethics from, Sally Quinn?
You just made me guffaw. And that’s hard.
Interesting isn’t it that Dave felt it necessary to come here and defend himself? I suspect that he is just a tad nervous.
I’ve put the audio up at our site. Enjoy.
Interesting. Thank you for posting that, Dave. It would appear that Serkes has a bit of a credibility problem.
Thanks. And yes, a bit.
In Washington, DC. Which is a one-party consent state, making this perfectly legal. And it would probably be legal in any state, as it appears to have been an interview conducted without any expectation of privacy. There’s nothing wrong with routinely recording interviews that aren’t agreed to be off the record in order to ensure accuracy and/or protect yourself against false accusations of libel.
And, he’s quite clearly quoting Serkes throughout the piece. Ergo, he’s not the one putting words in your mouth.
That audio bears absolutely no relationship to what you “reported”.
You might have to clarify. I just listened to it, and it seems like exactly what he reported.
So if Serkes has a bit of credibility problem, what do you think that says about you and your post?
Posting single-sourced unconfirmed hearsay and doing so as the Lede of your post, and this is your idea of a “reporter’s” due diligence?
I guess we can expect that “My Mother is an Alien!” article from you any day now.
http://washingtonindependent.com/79427/a-quick-response-to-jane-hamsher
Dave how could she respond before your post was up? You still got eastern and pacific time confused fix it! Otherwise we might think you are trying to mislead the press about giving Jane time to respond/s
Yeah, I listened to the audio and… the critical part is muffled, but could be taken to read as his transcript reads on the site.
So what? If Serkes had said, “I bumped into President Obama the other day and he said ‘I’m a Manchurian Candidate working for Osama Bin Laden’”, would Weigel have run that story with no realistic attempt at confirmation?
Of course not. That would be sleazy and unethical in the extreme. So is this. Congratulations on getting down in the muck, Dave.
Only a complete scumbag would tape someone without letting her know about it in what she assumed was a private conversation, and then put it up online to try and do a salvage job on a claim that any sane person would have long ago realized wasn’t true.
Most people don’t think that when “conservatives” and “liberals” appear together on cable news that it’s proof they’re “working together. But then, most people understand the concept of “timezones,” too.
One wonders how the Windy came to hire as their token “libertarian” one so completely incoherent that he’s furiously fighting to pass a giant corporate welfare bill.
Worst. Libertarian. Ever.
Can I post my article about the Underwear Bomb Plot, at the Washington Independent?
…Yeah. Completely aside from any Dave-related issues, it sounds like Serkes lied to Jane.
Nothing is playing for me Dave and my speakers are working Rainbow ” Power” is working just fine on my speakers tech help or did Dave pull this I’m on a Mac on Safari if that helps.
Right. Being interviewed by a journalist in a public place is “a private conversation”.
But regardless of whether you think he was right to tape it, his initial point is validated. You were wrong. He was right. Shifting the conversation to something else sounds like you don’t want to admit you attacked him without reason.
second post Jane!!!
Changing the subject, attacking the messenger — this is absolutely pathetic behavior.
Mac/Safari (Snow leopard) works fine here. It is an MP3. You might try control-clicking the link, downloading, and opening in iTunes.
I’ll try the tape again in 10 minutes or so I’m hoping Dave or anyone has some ideas to get past my tech problems unless they are not tech problems? I hate not hearing what you all are.
You’ve done as much as you can do here and have done all that is reasonable after not allowing sufficient time for a call-back.
The level of snot, venom, and other fluids flung at you is what it is.
Not leopard but will try now.
Agreed. The tape confirms what Dave wrote *exactly*. No projection. Frankly it’s stronger on the tape than Dave summarizing it in the article.
As grumblepuppy indicates above, Serkes has credibility issues. But Jane doesn’t look good in this thread at all.
Jane: I do think you need to take a step back and apologize to Dave for how you’ve portrayed his article. He correctly wrote up what Serkes rather enthusiastically told him. If you want to deny how Serkes decribes your relationship, or how she describes your actions in whipping up the “no vote” in the House, that’s certainly something you can argue out with Serkes. But Dave reported correctly what Serkes told him.
John
Stop being nice Mac:)
Sure tosh and your a regular Jane respects your opinion/s
Exactly Tosh. I don’t know why Jane is spouting so much anger at Mr Weigel. Evidently, the issue is Ms Serkes who either lied to one or the other.
Of course there is an option for why Hamsher may be attacking Weigel instead of Serkes. Which is that, indeed, what was initially reported was true and Hamsher is defensive about it. Otherwise I don’t see why she would continue to be so vicious towards him after he proved his reporting was accurate as far as he could tell.
I am running both Tiger and Leopard, well not at the same time. But I listened to the tape. They are both talking over each other. Serkes is clearly talking about the vote count, and FDL’s projections.
You can apparently post any one-source claim if it fits in with your smear campaign, you don’t even have to bother getting it confirmed. Two sources? Who needs them. A good vendetta and a sneaky tape — that’s all the proof the Washington Independent needs to blast a headline out.
Where there’s smoke there’s fire, right? Even if it is coming out of your own pants.
Finally, an truthful acknowledgement that he’s not a reporter. Instead, a messenger!
Dutifully delivering his own message!
Message received messenger!
And yes, pathetic is the right word. To quote a messenger:
Could be that Faux News is in your future.
Someone is lying. I can’t even imagine Jane saying anything like that. It’s just not Jane.
One additional add:
I wouldn’t put any weight on Serkes’s claim that she was taped without her knowledge. She’s already show to have been a liar once over: in denying what she told Dave. Since Jane seems to be saying that what Serkes is saying is also incorrect, then she’s a liar twice over. It’s a Catch 22 to then buy her claim that she was “taped without her knowledge.”
Seriously… apologize and move on, Jane. There are plenty of battles to fight. This one is just not one that does you any good. :/
John
Well you are obviously working with Tea Parties on methods for denying things that are ostensibly true and provable. There is no talking over each other and there is no confusion as to what she is talking about. I mean it is surreal to read people argue. We can listen to the tape you know?
And I still don’t understand why your angle is to DENY what is obvious to anyone who listens the tape rather than just say Ms Serkes is lying. Why has WEIGEL to be the villain here? Because Hamsher said so?
come on, Things. The guy came and ate a sandwich and a half full of shit, when he deserved about a mouthful.
some of the things said about him were so gutter-puke level that I was wondering if I said them. *g*
Well I don’t know her personally but the bad-faith venom she is huring at Dave Weigel in this thread doesn’t make me inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt.
That said, I would be perfectly willing to believe Ms Serkes was the liar here. All the more strange to see Jane be so vindictive.
Bullshit. He took one woman’s offhanded comments, secretly taped, and asserted it as “proof” of conclusions he leaped to that turned out to be wrong. Then he put words in my mouth. All of this with no confirming source.
No credible publication would run that. Not one. Not the Huffington Post, not the New York Times, not FDL. Not even Politico. That’s bottom-of-the-barrel time, worthy of Drudge.
Incorrect as Dave himself just admitted in his comment # 141.
Messenger, not reporter.
Libertarians, you can dress them up, but you cannot take them out in public, without getting embarassed.
So you’re calling her a liar for saying she wasn’t taped?
He says he was taping the entire event, so if he tells her, he’s got that too.
Maybe the more honorable course of action — assuming you care about that sort of thing — would be to ask him before making that claim.
Why should Jane apologize if she didn’t say something? She has every right to protect herself against this sort of trash.
The tape works now. Jane I think Norske was right I admit I was wrong Norske. Serkes said Union Thuggery. Sorry Dave your not off the hook rushing with a scoop like that attributing that Jane said that you know you needed confirmation.
Tell me Dave if I report you eat skunks for lunch wouldn’t you like it if I waited for your confirmation? Wouldn’t any Bushie have cut you off forever from all White House scoops if you tried such an Obvious ruse? Did Rahm say that Jane was fair game for Hackery?
I’m thinking you and Serkes were in cahoots to discredit Jane come on why the rush to publish unless you were trying to smear Jane?
Frackin Obvious Fool! this smells of Rahm.
I like Katherine. She didn’t place the import on the conversation that some sneaky dickhead did. It just wasn’t that big a deal to her. I think she gave me her honest recollection. That’s how different stories get told, people recall things differently. But then, that’s why most credible news outlets require two sources before they run with stories making wild allegations like, oh, I don’t know, I’m working with tea partiers to defeat health care for the Republicans and. Because after all, the reporter KNOWS. So who needs proof, really.
Of course, if you’re taping her and trying to save face after you’ve been proven to be a complete hack who goes with one-source stories he doesn’t bother to do the legwork to confirm, putting the tape up online and making everything worse makes perfect sense.
…. might be to put this to bed
Weigel “eat skunks”? Really?
From the tail forward, or the other thing?
P.S.: don’t bother with confirmation. My editors will just love this one.
FDL must be doing something important since everyone is trying to bury us. Not gonna happen.
I don’t think he is the one who is coming off looking worse off of this, Jane.
And considering you were collaborating with Norquist of all people a few weeks ago, and have been ferociously against the HCR, and you are admittedly friendly to Serkes (to the point you are still defending her now even though she lied to you), I can’t say it is such a stretch to have believed the story in the first place.
Btw it doesnt matter if she “misrecollected”. SHE SAID IT. Now why did she say it? If she didn’t lie to you, she lied to him. Why would that be? Hmmmm
Tea Party? I am a Democrat which gives me enough grief. We can argue about Ms. Serkes said in an outdoor noisy setting. But it is not journalism to SMEAR!
I remember reading the exact same thing from PUMAs a few years ago. Just sayin’
Storm in a tea cup, let’s move on.
Rachel Maddow has, upon interviewing Geithner, reasserted her status as an official propaganda conduit for the Administration.
Pathetic and sad.
Just saying you are using the same method of denying what is plain for everyone to see.
Moving further away from Weigel, I would think you guys would want to reflect on the fact the story seemed plausible to anyone who read it. What does that say about where FDL is heading?
More light, less heat (name-calling), folks.
Indeed. Which is why it is so strange Jane is still so vicious about it all. Weigel apologized for not giving her more time to respond to his email. But he was vindicated because he told the truth. I think the bile in this thread is indicative of a larger problem with the FDL community and should do well to reflect on it.
I’ve been a reader of Jane’s (and others here) for years, and have posted on occassion since at least last year.
“Regular” status on someone else’s blog isn’t really something I strive for in life, so you’re pulling the equivalent comparing cocks in a high school shower with someone who couldn’t care two shits if your the John C. Holmes of the FDL comments section. I’m not here to read your stuff. I’ve been here for years to read Jane and other writers, and on rare occassions comment when something they wrote inspired me.
This is one of them. I gave an honest comment of what this reader of hers thought about her piece after reading both it, Dave’s piece and listening to the tape. Whether Jane respects my comment or not, that’s *her* call.
Jane: before you feel like blasting away at me for running in here to take Dave’s back, I’m a reader of _yours_. I visit FDL more in a week than I visit the Windy in a month. I read your stuff more Dave’s. Despite that, I’m giving you an honest comment in saying you need to apologize. Dave was/is correct in what he reported of Sorkes’s statements.
John
Very nice Catch Dave already retreated.
Without being one of the involved parties, I obviously can’t know, but it seems to me like Serkes lied to Jane about what was said, and that Jane has major issues with Weigel. (I have a great deal of trouble believing that Jane is lying here.)
I certainly think that (1) 14 or whatever minutes is an absurdly short window for comment, even in “blog time”, (2) single-sourcing a claim like that is pretty damn hackish, (3) if he did record without notice, that’s at least a bit slimey, and (4) I don’t think Weigel comes out smelling like a rose here in general, but insofar as he accurately reported what Serkes told him, it certainly looks like Serkes basically set Jane up here.
(And, I guess I should add (5), thinking that Jane would use the phrase “union thuggery” demonstrates either more than a bit of credulity, which is a pretty big problem for a reporter, or a complete failure to understand how progressives talk about unions, or perhaps both.)
Well, if you had told me Jane would be working with Grover Norquist on killing HCR, I would have told you you were crazy. And yet … So at this point I would think FDL would want to question their behavior of the past two months if all other progressive bloggers including long-time friends of FDL believed in the Weigel story and spread it.
Dude if you are a regular then you know we have a troll problem. I assume you know what trolls are? How are we to know that your not a troll?
Nope Dave is a reporter Jane uses the words Union Thuggery then I want that on tape not a second hand source Judy Miller journalism anyone?
When Jane works with Ron paul or Grover on issues do you have any concern about the issues she works with them on?
Agreed!
Tosh is making arguments and responding without calling anybody names. Who cares if he/she had posted before? What kind of narrow-minded tribalism is this? Does FDL only listen to people they know or can other people engage in debate as long as it is respectful and argumented?
Gee. “Us vs them”.
Knock it off.
You will notice that your comments are public, as I can see them…
QED
She is very welcome to work with them on issues they have in common.
Jane Hamsher opposed HCR. So does Katherine. Ergo it wasn’t that crazy to think they could collaborate on this regardless of their party affiliation, especially since they are admittedly friendly.
Which is why the defensiveness here is really odd. If it was OK for her to do it with prominent conservatives, why does the suggestion she may have done it with a less-famous acquaintance so horrendous?
Thinking clearly may not be your strong point. And your little PUMA slur pretty much displays your hack jackassery.
who connected for you Jane and Grover and HCR.
You have little credibility as is, shit like this will just lose it for you.
Would you please link me up with those progressive blogs you allude to, I’ve been searching far and wide, and here is it.
I dont think you understood my point. I just dont think whether tosh is a long-time reader or what one generally calls a “troll” is an intrinsic validation of his/her legitimacy on posting his/her opinion in this thread, which was ThingsComeUndone’s point.
I have no complaint myself.
Go on Twitter. You will see how many of our favorite bloggers RTed the piece. Jonathan Singer for one:
I consider Trumka and Stern as sellouts. This bill is such a monstrous nothing when compared to the other countries that anyone pushing for it is in my opinion a thug for the Bankers and Multinational Corps.
Charges of tribalism are weak, incorrect, inflammatory.
And still, our comments appear.
Believe half of what you see and nothing what you hear. In my humble opinion, Mr. Weigel should apologize for his false representation. It is libertarians who are anti-labor union.
That is not sufficient. It does not help your side to link FDL, and myself with the K-Street Tea Party. Does WI even report that this is “astroturf” and not “grassroots”, sponsored by corporate lobbyists? FDL is anti-corporatist.
Right. Their conjoint statement was about Rahm, not directly about HCR. My bad. Which doesnt change the point though, which was … would have anyone believed that she and he would be working together against a Democratic WH … ?
Nope its a self defense mechanism Trolls always come out to play claiming to be long time readers whenever a hot issue comes up. If you want say Dave is right about quoting Jane as saying Union Thuggery when he obviously rushed the story to avoid Jane’s response then yes any reasonable man would assume your both trolls.
Sorry back Dave about lying about Jane and say she should apologize then the gloves are off. Why Dave won’t print a retraction if he could help it unless we force him to.
I saw Kerry be nice to Swift Boaters you lie like Dave did you back a liar we hit back fast and hard! We are not Blue Dogs spineless %^^&!
My accusation of tribalism was directed at ThingsComeUndone who suggested tosh’s comments were not legitimate because he/she was a “troll”.
I don’t have anything to complain about and I am thrilled to be able to exchange opinions freely in this thread.
But just blaming the technology thingy is so damned convenient.
Uh the words Union Thuggery attributed to Jane is that not enough?
Actually Dave Weigel has been reporting on the Tea Party and the astroturf side of it before anyone else did – at the very very beginning. I don’t wanna sound like a cheerleader for him but I think it is a weird attack to make on him.
ON principle, absolutely! But based on what principle is Obama seeking out Republican permission to pass legislation, – there’s what ought to give your brains pause!
I thought I was clear:
I don’t read FDL for the Comments Section. I read it for the Writers.
About the only times I’ll skim through the comments are on the articles that I feel like commenting on, quickly checking to see if someone else has made the point I want to or if the author has already addressed it.
I don’t always agree with Jane. The times that I’ve posted a thumbs up for something she’s written have been honest praise rather than trying to score points. The times I’ve disagreed and posted, it’s been the same.
FWIW.
John
I think the core of the piece was about Jane supposedly linking with Tea Parties to work against HCR. The “union thuggery”, regardless of who said it, thing is a sideshow. So is the fact he taped her and basically this whole brouhaha against Weigel.
OK, the BS meter is redlining. Sadly it was the President and Rahm who went behind closed doors with PhRMA to stop universal health care. So if you define HCR, as the Mad Max Bill written by a K-street shill, we all hate it. But obviously, a few of us troublemakers are annoying the powers that be.
My question, why do you oppose universal health care UHC?
Hmmmm I think it has been quite clear for a while now Democrats are pushing through the bill WITHOUT worrying about Republican overventilating about it. Actually if you listen to the “corporatist” media, they are ramming through the bill with all kinds of unprecedented and unconstitutional tactics (which it isn’t true but that’s another story).
We can argue endlessly about whether Dems spent too much time chasing Republican votes last summer (of course they did). I don’t think anybody can say that now. Blame corporatist Democrats in Congress, not those who are trying to accomplish something in a bad situation.
(My Bold)
Even if reading comprehension were to be graded on a curve, it seems you’d never make the cut.
Jane is not intent on, nor has she ever promoted “killing HCR”.
If you had even a modicum of reading comprehension, you would have known that Jane has promoted killing the Senate Bill!
[Moderator: let's stay away from the insults please]
Not the House of Representative’s Bill which included a Public Option!
Not Health Care Reform (HCR)!
Jane has worked, and continues to work, tirelessly to promote real Health Care Reform.
I dont think attacking my “reading comprehension” is very constructive.
We obviously have a disagreement on what constitutes realistic HCR at this point in time. Nothing to do with stupidity on my part or yours.
Notice Dave on his link to the tape still has the eastern pacific time messed up to make it look like he gave Jane all the time in the world to respond after he was called out for it. Can we say disingenuous?
http://washingtonindependent.com/79427/a-quick-response-to-jane-hamsher
Funny how his response he assumes but never bothers to read or quote the response? Perhaps because there was no response he could produce or does Jane send blank responses as confirmation? Is this some new internet thing I have not heard of?
And that was precisely the part that was a complete non-sequitur from the information Weigel had in hand. He made unsupportable leaps that were childish and malevolent in what was clearly an attempt to slime. You have now irreducibly argued yourself into a corner with the truth. Even Weigel had the common sense to change his freaking title and now you are devolving back to where he started. What a joke. You ought to stop before you make more mistakes in argumentation. Maybe boy lawyer Singer can help you out a little. Doubtful, but maybe….
aside from the personal thing, MD’s point should register with you. Hamsher is intent on HCR and intent on preventing having something she perceives as preventing real reform pass into law.
you might think that what she opposes is all that is available, but her intent is good and fine.
No its a smear campaign without facts its like Karl saying McCain had an African American bastard. With smears you hit back fast or people will think they are true. Thats all we are doing here.
jane and grover signed a letter calling for an investigation of and the resignation of rahm for blocking the IG’s investigation into freddie mac.
had nothing to do with health care reform
When has Jane and Grover ever made a joint statement on healthcare? Investigating Rahm yes Healthcare please provide the link.
Since August all FDL has talked about was passing healthcare and what we wanted in the bill.
So please produce a link where Jane tries to stop a real Healthcare bill not an insurance company bailout that costs more and helps people less than National Healthcare will.
I said it before I’ll say it again I’m mad at Jane for settling on the Public Option.
after everything worth while has been frittered away, same for Financial Industry ‘reform’. Get out from the echo chamber and just use your instincts. Question Authority, mercilessly – no matter the Party!
Can we get a drug test:)
God-damned facts!
You’ve tried everything and nothing will fix it?
You have our sympathy.
[Moderator: Do not make this about someone else's "reading capability" - Stick to the issues or your comments will be removed.]
Lisa Derrick is upstairs!
Late Night: Census Questions
You sure about that?
Well, no, the “union thuggery” thing is pretty central, for a few of reasons. (1) Along with the rush to post it betrays that Weigel was chasing a story, not the truth, because anyone who knows actual progressives knows that it is about as likely for Jane to use the phrase as it is for Newt Gingrich to spontaneously call for regulation. (2) It was provocative, a cats-and-dogs story that supports one of the narratives lots of folks in the DC journalism racket seem to like, and (3) The apparent liar here at least sounds like she’s stating it clearly, and I wonder if there’s a reason. I don’t mean to get in to mind reading, but it doesn’t sound like a flip comment to me, and there’s no attempt to walk it back – quite the contrary.
It sure looks to me like Suzanne knows what she’s talking about.
If this was a one-off thing, a simple “my bad” might have covered it. But it’s not the first time Jane has been sideswiped by Weigel, as Jane noted in the original post: “It’s a pattern with him.”
Oh, not the part about what the investigation was to look into, but the part about that the call had nothing to do with health care.
Where I live, sometimes the cops will pull you over for a busted tail light when they’re interested in something else.
Sorry! I do apologize.
I tend to get a wee bit overzealous in stamping out BS, but I shouldn’t descend to personal attacks regardless.
Your dark or just a troublemaker the cops know? I’ve been both still am one.
Tosh imagine your a guest at a party who never says a word or listens to what the other guests/commentors say then you hear one thing and suggest the hostess should apologize at a party where yes someone lied about her reputation.
Dave is correct about what Kathryn A. Serkes said Jane will have to deal with that on her own time. But Dave on purpose spread a rumor about Jane saying Union Thuggery thats like saying the Hostess of the party is a slut to her friends who know better.
Our response was predictable.
my thoughts are dark and you shouldn’t shouldn’t even have to ask if I’m a
troublemaker!
http://www.freewebs.com/joshuasworld/FWThumbnails/troublemaker.jpg
The Cops just luv you:)
I will say I’m mildly disturbed that Jane is still defending someone who appears to have lied to her.
I understand politics (he says!), but this is pretty glaring.
So when will we expect Jane to retract all of this and apologize? Aside from Weigel not giving her enough time to respond to his email (which I think is the case), he was right on in his reporting. Serkes is backpedaling furiously because she is the one who gave up too much/incorrect/misleading information (take your pick). Weigel did his job with the arguable exception of not giving Jane enough time to respond to his original email.
Did you even read the title of Weigel’s piece?
Tea Party Activist Working With Firedoglake’s Hamsher on HCR Whip Count
Where in this thread is this lede at all verified?
Or in the piece for that matter…
Edit much?
I think this is right (as gregboston @ 228 also says). Jane didn’t have enough time to respond to Dave’s email asking for confirmation/comment, but the larger issue here hasn’t been addressed. Serkes is not an ally and never will be, and defending her is bizarre.
True, but it is worse than that. The original title to Weigel’s post was
A materially and intentionally dishonest statement and title. The reformed title was little better and still flat out states that Jane Hamsher is “working with” Serkes, a statement that Weigel has no foundation for and that is STILL a fraudulently dishonest allegation and statement. The fact that Serkes talked to Hamsher and once appeared on the same program with her in no way, shape or form supports Wiegels title (either one of them). It is a pitiful display of journalistic ethics for Weigel and his employer leave such pure and unadulterated dishonesty up on their publication.
Yes, journalistic ethics require the following, further edit:
My lying-ass source tells me demonstrable and non-sensical lies about Jane Hamsher, which I further contort and sell to my editors, who, like me, do their jobs very badly
Edit: Of course, it is quite possible that they did their jobs very well, too.
I may regret jumping in here, but wanted to make clear what I was talking about. First, I work in various transpartisan coalitions on issues, so I do know more than one progressive. And yeah, we do talk about things.
And Jane is right, I am not a republican or conservative. Yeah, I’ve spoken at grassroots rallies, but I’ve also spoken at Rev. Sharpton’s National Action Network.
I am trying, perhaps naively, to work on common ground. And we all agree that stoking the insurance companies coffers with a government mandate is just plain wrong. I thought the important point I was making was that that a lot of us- on all sides – want this dead. For a reporter to jump on who called who a “thug” is a piece of minutiae compared to the that.
Bottom line — my apology to Jane. I don’t think it came out the way I meant it, and I never had any intention of giving the impression that she was saying “union thugs.” I did a piss-poor job of trying to say what I meant. She shouldn’t have to take the heat for it.
Kathryn Serkes