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In response to the all-out attack on Dennis Kucinich for standing by his word, FDL yesterday raised $12,000 from readers who support his position.
The rest of the progressives in Congress are little more than paper tigers, issuing idle threats they abandon the minute corporate America snaps its fingers. And the veal pen outfits who somehow forget that they urged Dennis (and others) to make those promises, whose coffers are suddenly flooded with money flowing down from robber barons who stand to make billions if they whip from the “left,” are reduced to complete incoherence.
Last night Michael Moore thanked Dennis for being true to his word on Countdown:
LAWRENCE O’DONNELL: The only eloquent voice I have heard in opposition, in actual political voting opposition to this bill — is from Dennis Kucinich, where the President went to his district today to try and change his mind. Dennis Kucinich criticism coming from the left,p oint by point, knocking down Democratic talking points — what would you say to Congressman Kucinich in the vote that he faces at this point?
MICHAEL MOORE: Thank you. Thank you. One out of 435 is standing up for the 300 million. How truly sad is that.
LAWRENCE O’DONNELL: When the vote comes, if he’s the decisive vote, would you tell him to go practical in the end?
MICHAEL MOORE: No I would not. If I was a member of Congress, I would say, I may vote for it, if President Obama you’ll stand in front of the camera and tell the American people that this doesn’t really cover pre-existing conditions for the next 4 years. And the insurance companies are still going to be able to make outrageous profits, and they are going to be able to deny people care once they have insurance. Tell the people the truth of these things, and then we’ll vote for the things that are great about the bill.
Lawrence O’Donnell framed the question poorly, assuming that a vote for this bill is “going practical.” Moore I think responded to the question of “would he vote for the bill,” period. But O’Donnell assumes that voting for this bill is “going practical.”
It’s not. It will flood unregulated corporate monopolies with money by forcing people to buy a product they don’t want, money they will use to further game the political system for their own benefit. Rather than cut medical costs, it will pour concrete into the system and guarantee they can’t be reduced. There’s nothing practical about this bill.
Please thank Dennis Kucinich by donating to his campaign. Because lord knows, PhRMA won’t.
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While I disagreed with your approach to the health care debate, I thought the Left activists should have pushed from the best possible health coverage solution, ie universal Medicare, I absolutely applaud your commitment to your principles when the majority of popular political bloggers are going along to get along. It’s refreshing.
i think to be fair, as lawrence o’donnell, michael moore and dennis kucinich discuss HCR, and rep. kucinich’s thus far refusal to vote for its passage; one should instead ask someone who is not covered, or someone in his family, by health insurance now. are they willing to say, “let the very good be the enemy of the not so bad?”
there are many of us who know this bill is far from perfect and would rather have seen immoral profit completely removed from our health care system; however, without a start (as the ailing woman from ohio said last night)there is nothing to build on. a house can not be built without a foundation, a walk begins with a step.
if dennis, and grayson, want to negotiate for something for their yes votes let it be to make the “no pre-existing conditions for all” begin immediately upon passage.
I loved watching Michael Moore stand up for Kucinich and call out Obama for his lies. And then he wrote a check to the Free Clinics in honor of KO’s dad. (Must have been a generous check based on O’Donnell’s reaction). I was disgusted by O’Donnell trying to play both sides of the Kucinich story; the other day Dennis was “reprehensible” and now he’s “eloquent.” I also enjoyed Moore’s takedown of O’Donnell’s inside baseball crap about the filibuster.
I’m making a donation to Dennis today. Thanks for this, Jane.
I’m really not getting the big deal here with DK. Why is the White House and the veal pen gunning for him? His position was crystal clear from the get go about wanting single payer and well that was never really an option. But I think he is a reasonable person and he really does want a workable bill, and this going back and fixing it later nonsense just does not work for him. I bet if the PO was still in the bill he might very well change his mind, but they never bargained with the left, only the corporations. Now after the “serious people” came up with the bill the left has to swallow hard.
What I don’t get is how progressives think they can bargain in the House or anywhere if they do not stand firm on certain principles, but the WH and others knew that they would cave and they are indignant that DK didn’t. Fuck them, go Dennis!
I’m not covered under the MA reforms. I may be poor enough now to qualify for the state health plan, I’m in process on that, but I was turned down before, and I don’t support this bill. It doesn’t mean I support doing nothing.
He can start by telling me, since i havnt had insurance in five years, just cant afford it and other bills. But yeah I will go without if it means that we get this sham of a fix. To be honest I’m not sure how much of this bill is purposefully bad so that it gives democrats an excuse to vote again later. If this were a perfect bill they couldnt string us along longer. So really to me it’s either cynical politics at its worst or just plain corruption.
Because they think all progressive will just roll over and vote. Blue dogs actually stand up and say no, progressives never do. And at this point they need every single vote they can get to even have a chance of passing this crap of a bill.
and while I don’t like Michael Moore, he was right about this.
Being forced/helped to get insurance one cannot afford to use due to high deductibles and copays does exactly what for the currently uninsured?
I don’t deplore Markos Moulitsas for disagreeing with Kucinich. Everybody has that right and must remain true to themselves. What I object to is his deliberate mispronunciation on Kucinich’s name on Countdown. Is he going to try and tell us that after all that Kucinich has been in the news, and after his perennial presidential runs, that Markos is the only person in the United States who doesn’t know how to pronounce his name? Please. To be honest, I see no difference between what Moulitsas did and the Republicans’ use of “Democrat Party”. None.
I haven’t had health insurance for 10 years. When my COBRA ran out I didn’t realize that, as a healthy person who seldom went to the doctor, I would still be unable to purchase a private plan. And I do mean unable: a broker could not find me anything at any price, because I was slightly outside the height/weight guidelines and I had used a prescription allergy medication for one summer several years back. Since then I’ve tried and failed to find anything both useful and affordable. I imagine I could get “coverage” under this bill but that would not translate into actual “care” if I couldn’t afford the co-pays or the premiums. Don’t be fooled. Jane is right when she says:
FDL is about the only site I can read now since everyone else seems to be real content with fixing this later. When you have overwhelming majorities, a mandate and an agreed upon problem, I don’t see why there was ever a need to fix this later. What are we waiting for even larger majorities and a ballot initiative?
This will be yet another Democratic boogey-man to lord over the left. Elect us to fix the thing we broke or they will break it more… Fixing something just enough to keep a vote, but don’t do enough to actually get people to believe in their government again.
Kucinich is a joke. I suspect that he’ll vote no again but, if he doesn’t, will you folks want your money back again? When this bill passes, Kucinich will become invisable once again. This dick voted agains the house bill that did have a public option. Kucinich felt it wasn’t strong enough. Who the hell does this spock eared lunatic think he is? You’re not the President, and you don’t have enough house members with you to make a difference. He’s basically Bart Stupak without the dead racoon on his head. Personally, I hope he votes no and looses his reelection bid next time around.
Mhmm…If Democrats wanted health care to be a winning issue, they would have ran on expanding medicare since it’s inception. They would have argued for it election cycle after election cycle until it was law. They would have told the voters, “these Republicans don’t want you to have your Medicare”. The notion that the American public welcomes Medicare at 65 but not 45, 35 etc, is ridiculous. My thinking is they do not want it as a winning issue because there is no donor constituency in a government entitlement.
Oh definitely! They’ve known since before they started that there was no way any real reform would pass. And cut off those insurance lobby dollars? Especially when SCOTUS just ruled that they can give without limit and without accountability. This whole “debate” is nothing but a windfall for politicians and the more they drag it on, the more skybox tickets they get, the more paid retreats they can attend, the more PAC money is thrown at them and the more sweetheart jobs their relatives are begged to fill.
Agreed. It’s disgusting.
Oh, and Markos was spot on. I don’t get all the Kucinich love flowing around here. Which is why I don’t comment on this site as much as I used to. I don’t think you can scrap this bill. That sounds just like the Republicans. Stupid and childish. I’ll see you guys at weeks end when the bill passes.
Disagreement is one thing, but doing this halfwitted attack on DK is another. Go to Kos and the chief arguments against DK’s position is not on the merits of the bill but mind-numbing phrases and illogical statements.
Examples:
Letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.
I hope Dennis is happy being the one that denies coverage for 30 million people.
His political purity could kill 45k a year.
and on and on and on. None of those actually argue the merits of the bill but instead are appeals to emotion or trying to paint the other person as being crazy because they stand up for their ideals. Not to mention that it does not in any way attempt to hold accountable the other members of congress voting no or the ones that created a bad bill.
Don’t let the door hit you…
Project much?
details! details!
Jane, thanks for this.
I would add that O’Donnell’s poor framing of the question is just the latest in the pattern he has pursued, since this time last year, in working against real reform. From the outset he has insisted that real reform would not pass, basing that strictly on his “experience” with the Clinton failure back in the day. He’s come across, on more than one occasion, with the attitude, “If we couldn’t do it, nobody can, not now, not ever.”
“One out of 435 is standing up for the 300 million. How truly sad is that.” and his name is Dennis Kucinich
keep fighting the good fight DK.
Go team Democrats!! Woo woo!! In yer face!! I iz in yer base killin’ yer dudz!!
Rock on!!one1!
Sadly, I have yet to encounter anyone who supports the bill who has actually read the bill.
I think that obamarahma wants to get Dennis to come to the dark side so that there is no more burr under the saddle. As long as there are any that oppose this bill as it stands, they prick the consciences of those that go along. LIEberman, lincoln, bayh, etc. are in the same camp with the corporatist obama so obama never had to pressure them to do something to support him because they were already supporting him. If Kucinich holds fast, others may begin to grow a spine and defeat this as it should be defeated. obama never had any intention of doing anything but supporting the corps. The only change he has accomplished is to expose himself and most of the rest of the dims as the corporatists that they are. I have no problem with the rethugs winning this battle, and, if it is obamarahma’s Waterloo, so be it; he did it to himself.
I live in Massachusetts and currently do not have insurance. The commonwealth has mandated coverage,and asseses a fine of $900 for failure to buy insurance.The Federal plan also has a mandate and penalizes those that do not obtain coverage.
I’m wondering if I’m going to be fined twice ,once by the state and once by the Fed , if this piece of shit health INSURANCE bill passes.
They’re blindly playing along with the villain of the week charades; it doesn’t matter who it is as long as they can pile on. Of course, it’s even better if it’s someone Kos already has a beef with.
Jane,
Thank you for setting this up. I was the first person to contribute yesterday.
The bill would have been so much better – and Democrats would have been far better off going into Nov – had the 65 members of Congress who pledged to vote against any bill without a public option stood together and demanded it.
Now, health care reform has been turned into a joke and Democrats have ensured their losses in Nov.
Too bad there weren’t more like Dennis!
There’s still time for them to fix their mess, right? They still can stand their ground, make the bill better, and improve their chances to win in Nov 2010. Let’s hope they get their heads our of their asses and force Pelosi to do the right thing for American people and for the Democratic Party.
So it was mature a rational for Markos to deliberately mispronounce Kucinich’s name? Why is that different than “Democrat Party”?
Interesting that for someone who was around during the Clinton-era fight that he seems unable to recall the 1993 REPUBLICAN faux health reform bill. And seems to have failed to notice that this bill IS the 1993 REPUBLICAN faux health reform bill with some very minor tweaking.
O’Donnell is looking more and more like the proverbial hack. And if I had to guess, I’d say he’s doing some damage to Olbermann’s ratings.
One DNC approved talking point after another, yep.
Tom Tomorrow’s got the scoop…
hello, roxsteady please read
Dennis Kucinich = DK
Barack Obama = BO
DK is for the Public Option
BO is not for the Public Option
DK is for Drug Importation
BO is not for Drug Importation
DK is not for the Individual mandate
BO is for the Individual mandate
DK is for abortion rights
BO is not for abortion rights
DK is for ending wars
BO is for more war
Roxsteady who is the real Democrat DK or BO? DK
Stop being a fool for the Corporate Elite, Barack Obama is their property.
Very well said. They know that Dennis makes them look sleazy and awful. I am grateful for his honesty.
Apparently one progressive standing up to this Insurance Company Welfare Act because it’s abominable is worse by far than any number of blue douche DINOs holding it up because it doesn’t outlaw abortion throughout the land and for all time. Who knew?
I only watched because I knew Michael Moore was going to be on. Otherwise it would have just been another big dose of talking points. Same with Rachel: Republicans R Bad. Duh. Her ratings must be suffering too.
I have no insurance and back Dennis Kucinich and Michael Moore 1 million percent.
He voted against the House bill because he signed a pledge saying the PO had to be tied to medicare rates. There was also the disgusting Stupak amendment in it.
He SHOULD have voted no.
Oh and he thinks he’s a single vote in the House. The problem is your lord and savior Obama happens to need 1 vote right now.
Awwww..that must be so sad for your dear leader.
Didn’t he work for Moynihan who essentially helped quash Clinton Care?
You know I really want to like this bill. I really want to be convinced that this will work or that there is a real plan to fix this later, but I don’t get convinced, I get slogans. You get this [edited by mods] on this very thread stating “I’ll see you in a week when this passes.” So? I want to know why I should support this bill that isn’t a glib soundbite that actually addresses my serious and substantive problems with this bill. And “do you want president Sarah! ?” doesn’t really do much for me.
Why are we allowing the insurance companies to be so inefficient with our money, at least 15 cents of every dollar we give them will go to “overhead.” Medicare isn’t that inefficient, nor is the rest of the world. Why are they bitching that 15 or even 20% is too restrictive? Why do we need them in the first place?
Why did we decide to fund this plan by taxing middle class, union and so called “Cadillac” plans instead of an actual tax increase on those that have it good for so long?
If we were going for a market based approach why not set a good base line coverage plan, then set up an exchange that anyone and any company can enter into to get the best rates? If they want al a carte better options, exchange that too. But they had to limit how exchanges work too.
[Modnote; please, no name calling]
I heard them discuss this on NPR this morning and so-called experts marveled at how Obama and his OFA couldn’t seem to be effective in mustering support for the bill.
Of course NPR’s experts all discussed the technical details of organizing and claiming they didn’t keep enough field staff in all 50 states, blah, blah, blah.
What they were missing was that this is just a crappy bill that no one likes. And it’s not what Obama supporters voted for last fall. It ain’t rocket science, but impossible to understand by the villagers.
if you are over 50 years old
you will pay at LEAST 15,000$ PER YEAR…BEFORE YOU GET SICK,AFTER THAT 30 TO 40% of your expenses…hope your rich
I doubt KO’s even watching… probably thinks he landed on FOX and surfs right past.
Stand tall Dennis – we want a “Medicare buy in” for all.
They have only the cheerleading left to convince those still not wanting to vote yes. What’s sad is that they tried for about a week (and on many blogs) to actually argue merits and lost horribly, so it’s all “do this or else…” (queue lightning flash and dramatic music)
Hell I watched the Ed show for that week or so and every Democrat was stammering to come up with an answer to some very real and legitimate questions. That’s when you would get this is a “starter home” sort of crap. Fuck me when you have these majorities and the best you can get is a starter home you are either criminal or negligent not to get something better.
I have an issue with anything that further entrenches the insurance companies in this unsustainable system, and that’s the main thing this bill does. I see any future “fixes” as likely to be in their favor, not ours. Until the United States joins every other industrialized country and realizes that basic health care is not something that should be profit-based, we are doomed to fail.
You are being argumentative, and while not attacking people on this site, appear to have a personal problem with Dennis.
What is your position on these issues?
You could start with the issues raised by Dennis, and explain what you want or believe.
What’s you position on these issues?
OK IM SCREAMING
IF YOU ARE BEYOND 50 YEARS OF AGE
THEY CAN TRIPLE YOUR RATES
T R I P L E…that is just before you ever get sick
maybe Markos Molasseses is posting as roxsteady ?
Watch. If this bill goes down by one vote, people will blame Kucinich because he kept his promise, not Bart Stupak because he wants to impose his superstition on womens’ bodies. People like Markos, O’Donnell and roxsteady will scream what a bad person Kucinich is and the media will lap it up and amplify it.
THEY
CANWILL TRIPLE YOUR RATESI don’t believe you are screaming loudly enough. I’ll help.
That would mean actually arguing the merits, and these hacks have only had to argue against Republican talking points for years. They have yet to realize that to change the culture in Washington, you need to argue facts and merits, and cheerleading and other dumbfuckery is exactly what we have had for over two decades.
No need to scream, I hear you. I just turned 50 and I know this. If this bill passes, I will not be buying insurance – or paying the fine. It sounds like there are going to be a lot of people joining me. If they put us in jail, they will have to give us health care there.
If Kucinich changes his mind so do the other waverers.
Kucinich is the anchor on the left. The only anchor.
Okay, here’s a little parable. Someone falls off a boat and is drowning. Republicans are all lined up on the deck arguing that the victim should have learned to swim and we shouldn’t have to go out of our way to help him. Obama and the DLC walk past the many life preservers hanging on the wall for just such an occurrence so they can quickly try to mix some cement and make a concrete life preserver.
Dennis Kucinich is trying to stop them from hurling this heavy ring of concrete out at the victim. And Dennis is attacked by onlookers from preventing them from trying to at least do something.
Meanwhile, Dennis keeps pointing to the life preservers hanging on the wall of the boat, but other Dems keep blocking him from being able to reach one to throw to the victim.
I think that about sums up where we’re at on the health care debate.
Excellus board voted itself a 37 percent pay raise
Source: Syracuse Post Standard
The directors of Excellus voted to raise their pay by 37 percent last year after a consultant hired by the insurer determined they were underpaid.
The raises for the 17 outside directors came at the same time the nonprofit insurer lost money on its operations and cut the pay of its top executives.
The same year, Excellus increased health insurance rates on average 8 percent. For 2010, the insurer raised its rates an average of 8.8 percent. Both years, some customers saw substantially higher rate increases
Read more: http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/03/excellus…
This is bang on. I’ve said this of Move-On whenever push has come to shove and the veal pen has jumped the shark.
Re:roxsteady, Kucinich is a joke (comment 12 and 16).
It is refreshing to hear your announcement that you are not going to no longer make comments at this site. I suppose FDL suits those who can identify what the White House goons are upto.
me too!
When do you plan to start arguing the facts?
What’s you position on these issues?
Markos has many times pointed out that Liberals often disagree, sometimes vehemently and usually that’s okay with him. Until you disagree with Markos apparently.
or Liebeputz cause he cancelled medicare buy in
always remember LIEBERPUTZ mentored Obummer
“after a consultant hired by the insurer determined they were underpaid”
I’m surprise, shocked, that consultants would actually deliver the recommendation they were paid to make to a rhetorical question. What was the consultant paid to make that determination?
I’m still on the fence on this one. Both sides of the argument have merit.
I know that if this bill doesn’t pass ,it will be years before another attempt at reform will be tried.
On the other hand this bill does not take affect for 4 years , leaves 17 million people out and does not contain the PO.
Some are saying pass the bill and make the fixes later . I don’t buy that.
The house and senate have the opportunity to fix this bill right now ,by adding the PO, but have so far done nothing but make excuses. If they won’t make the changes now , why should I think they’d make the changes at some later date?
Geez my friggin head hurts !!
he is a poor replacement for RhamNapolean
This will be deemed remarkably prescient, I fear.
this is THE DEATH SPIRAL
they will all do this infinitum
What I really appreciate about FDL is that very few threads devolve into name-calling nonsense and that people who refuse to debate on the merits are eventually just ignored.
hope you are not NOW or soon NEARING 50….because you better save up your 20 grand a year…its really a NO-BRAINER
$20,000 before lunchtime? Yes, we can!
that is if you remain PERFECTLY HEALTHY mind you
He worked to get Moynihan re-elected then became Democratic Chief of Staff to the two Senate committees which Moynihan chaired — the Committee on Environment and Public Works (1992) and the powerful Finance Committee (1993-1995). In 1993,Moynihan was busy playing footsie with Dole who co-sponsored the bill I was referring to. So, in answer to your question: Yes.
Which makes it all the more unlikely O’Donnell wouldn’t know that this IS the 1993 REPUBLICAN faux reform bill with some very minor tweaking.
well at least we have GOOD bankruptcy laws in place……oh wait
M’eh. I’m used to being badmouthed by conservatives and establishment Democrats. I’m a proud ten percenter. My little name for the ten percent of the population who still disapproved (strongly in my case), of George W Bush on September 12, 2001. I was thrown off of John Aravosis’ Gayadvocacy list because I tried to point out to him that Bush was going to start a war with Iraq before he was even inaugurated. None of that has been seen to be remarkably prescient. JK Rowling is right “It’s easier to forgive people for being wrong than to forgive them for being right” I won’t hold my breath in the belief that anything we say against this abomination will ever be received as prescient.
the medical/pharma cartel WILL take your house,happened to a friend of mine
ill take the fine,and save 18,000 real dollars a year
This latest kubuki in Congress — staged managed from the Blight House — is another classic example of putting it all down to one individual. Someone has to take the blame for its latest fail. DK is the ideal target, especially for public relations boutiques to exploit through the M$M — the Mighty Wurlitzer — in behalf of said monied interests.
I think this is one of the worst misconceptions out there. No matter what happens, the healthcare situation for just about everyone is going to get markedly worse over the next couple of years. More unemployment, more people losing their insurance, more people becoming aware of the fact that, even if this bill gets passed, nothing of any use kicks in any time soon. By the 2012 election I think there will be huge momentum for actual reform. I’m not saying the Democrats will benefit from that momentum, but I believe it will be there.
Personally I think they should have had a Medicare Buy in available for all people regardless of age. To pay for universal coverage they should have created new tax brackets (a 1mil single 2mil couple at ~40-50%). Another concern I have is enforcement. If you are one of these 30 million people without coverage, presumably because of money or pre-existing condition, then likely you do not have enough money to secure a lawyer to enforce the contract. Meaning that if I were in insurance I would deny every single claim from someone in this boat regardless of merits, if only because they will have difficulties with enforcement. Then I would whipsaw them as soon as it seems like they might get a lawyer or take legal action. To fix this I would like to see a couple of fixes either 1) like a 1984 claim the government pays the bills if you win or even better 2) if you win the insurance companies pay your legal bills.
Be 50 in June.
I’m a single payer advocate , the PO was a compromise, now there is no PO. I feel I’ve givin up too much already.
On the other hand there are some good things in this bill ,but without the PO costs will not be contained and will continue to escalate.
For someone over 50 you may be damned if you do damned if you don’t.
Geez my friggin head hurts !
Me too. Absolutely. How many of the 30 million that this piece of shit is supposed to “cover” are going to opt out and take the fine instead? Bunches I think.
Another ten percenter! My husband and I are proud members of that group.
And just WTF is the point in “subsidizing” less prosperous people to BUY private insurance? We KNOW that medicare is much more efficient than the very most efficient private insurance company so it seems to me that we could cover many more people for the same money we are throwing at them. Rhetorical of course, I’ve already explained my thoughts on why this fake debate is going on.
This bill is really nothing more than the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003. Well, except the extension of a mandate. I never realized there were so many Bush lovers in the “progressive” movement.
The Stupak coat hanger Amendment and its twin brother in the Senate Bill are enough to make me vote against either bill. A bill that punishes Americans for not buying insurance with a lawfully decreed 30% profit margin and doesn’t punish insurance companies for failure to pay for services? That makes it brain dead simple to vote against this atrocity.
Very good, thanks.
I’m looking forward to seeing how successful they are in enforcing this. I assume the IRS will put a lien on your house or garnish your wages or your checking account to collect the fine if you don’t pay up. But if you’re unemployed and your house has been foreclosed on and you’ve moved your money out of the bank, it’s not gonna be so easy.
if you make more than 30 K FORGET a subsidy
Serf care will become law. The unnecessary suffering will increase. The problem will not go away. The Democrats and Republicans will continue to rule over us on behalf of the Oligarchy. Partisans of both parties are now Tories.
Lets say it all together now
THIS IS A TURD
The public really isn’t behind this yet because most people have insurance and are happy with it.
If rates do increase dramatically , and folks either lose coverage or are asked to pay a larger share than you may see support increase. By then though it may be too late. If Dems lose their majorities in either house there will be no future attempt to pass a new bill and we’ll be stuck with what we got.
if ya dont have 5 or 600 a month disposable income ..forget it
The fines are meaningless to them. If the insurance companies had their way, there would be jail time involved, then the insurance companies would diversify and get into constructing and running private prisons. This nation no longer belongs to us. Maybe it was sold out by Reagan and the Bush boys but Clinton and Obama were and are perfectly happy to go along for the ride because they are getting their share.
Yes. I’m aware of these facts. Thank you.
businesses will be dropping group coverage do to costs
it just seems like nobody understand what pain and suffering this will cause
Then the empire will fall even faster. Regardless of party politics, this system is just not sustainable for very much longer. We are not a healthy country.
if this health care reform bill does not get passed, we will have dennis kucinich and others to thank for it, as people continue to die, suffer and lose health care.
we dont live in a dreamworld.
if anyone thinks that stalling this bill is going to lead to something better, they are living in a sad dreamworld, and they have responsibility for the next people who lose their lives because they wont have the benefits of this bill.
dennis kucinich is as obstructionist now as any of the republicans who callously stalled for time.
luckily, the small amount of money being raised for kucinich is not going to stand in the way of the passage of this bill.
anyone supporting kucinich is doing a whole lot more harm than good now.
this is the kind of grandstanding that nader did…..and that is one of the reasons we had the disgraceful years of bush and cheney.
kucinich is doing the same thing now.
if we lose this bill, his fingerprints will be on the death certificates of those who lost their lives from not having this bill passed.
enough is enough.
thank goodness, twelve thousand dollars will do nothing to stop the bill.
shame on dennis kucinich.
Let’s see.
Experience would tell you that until Dennis casts his vote, you should probably wait until then.
Y’know, make sure it’s a “no” vote.
I’m sure he has a good reason for his “no comment” response yesterday on his changing his vote.
But still, egg on the face, eh, not pretty.
I am angry at Daily Kos for several reasons. First they crticized Kucinich for scoring dates while campaigning and said that was “pathetic” and “desperate”. So what is wrong with scoring dates because campagining is hard work? It is only pathetic when you cannot get a date.
Next DKos censors their stories when they have too much conspiracy stuff. They also censor stories about the Diebold Vote Stealing Machines. It is well known that these machines have been used to steal elections. A REAL Democrat would want to get rid of these and just use paper ballots.
I didn’t know FDL was sponsoring a PAC for Kucinich. I donated directly to DK last week and doubled down a few minutes ago with ActBlue.
Though I have to admit donating via ActBlue and seeing its charter “online clearing house for democrats” made me a little sick to my stomach. I left the democratic party a couple years ago.
If we refuse to participate in the mandate, does this mean in some weird war tax resisters and Michelle Bachmann are now on the same page? Know that’s class war I can believe in.
I’m thinking of leaving as well.
DailyKos is a shitstorm of myopic democrats. Markos thinks the CIA is a humanitarian organization and wanted to work for them. Is he?
it just seems like nobody understand what pain and suffering this will cause
The principals do of course but they are interested in their own profit, not the suffering of the people. Let them eat
cakeshit!statistics show many kos fans are the corporate elite
http://www.docudharma.com/diary/19932/kossacks-are-richer-more-male-and-white-than-us
kossacks have little affininty with the average person.
A REAL Democrat would want to get rid of these and just use paper ballots.
I’ve got bad news for you: Those ARE the real Democrats. Not much different than real Republicans, are they?
“During the trip, Mr. Obama also had the chance to twist the arm of Representative Dennis Kucinich, who voted against the House health care bill in November and who traveled to Ohio with the president.”
I hope that during the flight to Ohio with Dennis Kucinich, the President took Mr. Kucinich to the aircraft side door and suggested strongly that he vote for the bill.
homer http://www.altara.blogspot.com
Your criticism of the D “leadership” is quite valid. The national D’s do not send me fund raising letters anymore. OFA does not allow replies to their E-mails. But recall it was anti-Vietnam war Democrats that incited Nixon to wiretap the D’s and so brought down Nixon. And some D reps are quite good, Al Franken, Bernie Sanders, and all the “corrupt D’s” who have been targeted by CREW for being anti-war and pro-universal health care. We just have to keep fighting against the Corporatist Party and perhaps they will wiretap us also.
We can only hope that he used the threat of physical violence to enact a bill that uses the IRS as a collection agency for big insurance.
Btw if that link is to yet another blog that argues fallacies like a call to violence or power instead of actually arguing merits, then your niche has already been taken by the likes of Dkos and others.
“Know that’s class war I can believe in.”
If Bachman’s involved it should be classless war
as if they aren’t all ready
Try it, you can always switch back. I doubt you’ll want to return. There is NO upside to Democratic Party membership (short of actually running for office… maybe). There is a strong upside towards sending them a message by dropping the affiliation.
jkaren you do know this is a blog site for progressives.
We really don’t like Bush followers here
take the test below:
Dennis Kucinich = DK
Barack Obama = BO
DK is for the Public Option
BO is not for the Public Option
DK is for Drug Importation
BO is not for Drug Importation
DK is not for the Individual mandate
BO is for the Individual mandate
DK is for abortion rights
BO is not for abortion rights
DK is for ending wars
BO is for more war
Who is the Democrat? and who is the Republican?
Please stop being a fool, the Corporate Elite created Obama and they own Obama.
Gore caused Nader to lose the election.
How many dead Afghans, Iraq’s, and US soldiers are the result of Obama’s policies? Kucinich fought very hard to save these 1 million plus people.
It’s a real dilemma, billybugs. Don’t know how it can work without those clowns being involved too or so the Commie theory goes. My first choice is that the Dems apologize to the far left for the decades of marginalization as though they were some pimple on the ass of democracy.
I don’t want an apology, I want them to get the fuck out of the way.
Infiltration of these “Civil Discourse” Coffee Parties is the latest on my action item agenda. You should try one. It is kinda fun to watch their faces go blank.
They’re gonna need a little push. I’ll help.
I’m hearing they’re the neoliberal answer to the Tea Party. Not my cup of tea.
“How many dead Afghans, Iraq’s, and US soldiers are the result of Obama’s policies? Kucinich fought very hard to save these 1 million plus people”
there will be 1 milllion plus americans who will lose their lives over the next generation if we dont pass this bill, until this fight will be taken up again.
it is time for dennis kucinich to fight for them, and stop chasing rainbows.
there was a time and place for dialogue about this bill, and that time is over, and i am sure that dennis kucinich, deep in his heart, realizes this.
now, it is time to save lives, and to insure the uninsured.
this is no time for chasing rainbows, or narcissistic grandstanding, or tilting at windmills.
barack obama knows that politics is also the art of what is possible.
let us now try to live in the real world, begin the reforming of health care….
and get something done.
we have other important battles to fight now, and we have a great president who has the courage to fight them.
mar this administration, and we will be set back further than we could imagine.
pass this bill now.
dennis kucinich is leading a dangerous band of rainbow chasers.
This is no joke. I worked as a temp health care provider in a CA prison and when I saw what timely health care (not perfect but better than a lot of unimprisoned people receive) that the inmates got, I joked that maybe I would rob a bank if I ever really needed some healthcare but had no insurance. I thought it was kinda funny but I was met with blank stares. After an awkward silence one of the permanent staff said “man, you think people haven’t thought of that before?” Turns out people can and have been doing this for some time now and if you think about it, it makes sense. Say you have a terminal disease and can’t get insurance and trips to the ER won’t cut it, why not do something that plops you in the hoosegow for a few years where you can scream for some help and somebody will actually respond?
What country. What A Country.
And they are. Five of us showed up at one in a room of 40. Watching them clutch their crosses as if they were in a room with the anti-Christ really is a must.
somewhere over the rainbow
way up high
AHIP flies over the rainbow
why oh why can’t we the people?
He is the benefactor who released the labourers.
He is the great Sun for new democratic Korea.
All people gather to the 20-point political program.
New spring comes everywhere in North Korea.
Oh- what a sweet name, General Kim Il-sung!
Oh- what a glorious name, General Kim Il-sung!
Look deep in your heart, Karen, and search out Miss Moffit. Go. Go now!
Hey Margaret, you get a tip o’ the hat from me. I’ve got a buddy who, after Bush’s election told me over the phone “Well, this means we’re going to war in Iraq.” I didn’t know what he was talkin’ about and he explained that in addition to oil and neocons and all that, Hussein had disrespected George Bush SR on a # of fronts including assassination plots and if you know anything about Texans (my friend was from Texas) you are aware that you just don’t do that to Texans. The son must avenge the insult. He wasn’t bragging or anything in fact he was nauseated because he said that now Bush Jr had the armed forces at his disposal and he just “knew” in his gut that Lil’ george was going to figure out a way to invade.
I thought he was barmy at the time and told him so but 2 years later I was eating some serious crow and called him up and said “Dude, you called that one!”
How did you know? What was your thinking.?
Transparait for the win! This is even funnier than the poster who said in some other thread, “Show me on the doll where Rahm touched you.”
Markos is a political fraud. His whole m.o. is to feign being a “progressive”, but then aggressively attack anyone on the Left as a “purity troll” if they actually have some genuine integrity and committment to the truth.
. He was against Impeaching Cheney.
. He thinks there were no E-Voting failures in 2004.
. He thinks Bush won Florida in 2000.
. He thinks Bush won Ohio in 2004.
. He thinks there is no corruption/conspiracy in government (unless its a “sex” scandal).
. He thinks asking questions government accountability about 9-11 is totally out of bounds.
. He thinks the CIA and the Federal Reserve are “good” insititutions.
. He thinks Kennedy was just killed by “a lone nut”.
. He thinks real progressives and whistleblowers like Kucinich, McKinney, Gravel are “looney“.
. Attempts to properly Impeach George Bush are just “looney“.
. Deficits don’t matter.
. Anti-war, pro-Human-Rights, Free-Market libertarians are worse than the murdering, theiving, Corporatist-Monoplists, Warmongering Neocons.
. The Obama Wars and Occupations are okay (because he’s not Bush).
Obama/Rahm/Gates/Holder represent the “left”.
. etc.
He’s the voice of the Establishment.
For example, he enthusiatically supported Ned Lamont in 2006 during the primaries against Joe Lieberman. But once Lamont actually defeated Lieberman (a total surprise to many), then Markos suddenly went silent on that race, and completely abandoned Ned Lamont during the pivotal General Election (where Lieberman invented a 3rd Party just to run, with GOP help).
“why oh why can’t we the people?”
because the end of the discussion has been reached.
because if more would have been possible, wyden, rockefeller and other congressional leaders to whom health care matters as deeply or more deeply than it does to dennis kucinich, would have continued this fight.
but pragmatic people who live in the unthinkably harsh, but real world, realize when it is time to make deeply difficult compromises, as hard as that is. because the consequences of not making those compromises, can be far worse. it is a hard lesson, but sadly, the truth of living.
-if this bill does not pass, health care reform is not going to be revisited for a very long time.
-the consequences of that will be a worse nightmare than what we have now.
-if this bill does not pass, it will imperil all future legislation that could evolve from this administration.
-and the end of the discussion has now been reached. anymore stalling, could kill the bill, and from the perspective of any rationally thinking person, that will be the end of health care reform
that is why people cannot fly over the rainbow.
unless, of course, they are icarus.
and their wax wings will melt in the sun.
hope that is not you.
Wow. This is textbook DLC boilerplate characterization of the enemy as “pie in the sky, tinfoil hat wearing, People’s Republic of Liberalism wackos.”
Ye gods. She is just going to have to learn the hard way. Assuming she’s not a DLC, OFA plant.
jkaren, is your last name ignani?
“-if this bill does not pass, health care reform is not going to be revisited for a very long time.”
Not true.
States are going to make single payer happen, from there it will spread to the entire country (as happened in Canada). This issue will not go away.
If the bill fails to pass (which it won’t), there will continue to be a huge public outcry to do something to reign in the insurers. It’s too important an issue for Congress to give up on. The public won’t let that happen.
Assuming your are not a professional shill, I can guarantee that you will look back at your arguments in a couple of years and realize that they are the ravings of a poorly informed wet behind the ears naif. They simply will NOT solve the problem(s) and will only entrench further the corrupt elements that have caused the problem in the 1st place.
You can’t just call something “health care reform” and magically have it be true. That is the real “rainbow chasing.” Sorry.
“Ye gods. She is just going to have to learn the hard way.”
she has learned the hard way.
believe me.
that is why i feel so strongly about this.
i brought my daughter to one of the first rallies when dennis kucinich was campaigning for the presidency….and there were fewer than a hundred people in the room.
i campaigned my heart out for eugene mccarthy in the sixties.
and george mcgovern.
i used to even have faith in ralph nader.
at sixty-one…..and a democrat all of my life, and a hard worker for the democratic party at that,
i have learned in my life to choose my battles carefully.
i have also learned that sometimes you need to lose a battle, in order to win the war.
dennis kucinich and his last holdouts that may imperil the passage of this bill, by stalling it further, should read that line again.
as someone with pre-existing conditions, who received one of the 39percent increases last month from anthem blue cross….i am extremely sympathetic to the need for health care reform.
like many others, if i thought the fight of dennis kucinich and his supporters would yield anything purposeful now, i would be engaged in it.
but i believe it is harmful.
and i feel as someone who still believes in the possibility of government, someone who works hard for the things she believes in, i am going to do my part to help this health care reform bill get passed.
stop chasing rainbows.
pass this bill now.
I love it. Can someone draw it?
Last night on Countdown, Michael Moore said that uninsured cancer patient Natoma Canfield’s only crime was that she was born in the US.
Indeed. In almost any other country, she would not have to write to the president as her best hope of staying alive.
Health care will be revisited during the next great depression which is probably 5 – 10 years away. At this point we will either move to a fascist state or reform capitalism enough to give it another 50 years like FDR did. If we go the latter route we will get single payer. I’m not betting on which way we go though.
“jkaren, is your last name ignani?”
fairly ridiculous statement.
“States are going to make single payer happen, from there it will spread to the entire country (as happened in Canada). This issue will not go away.”
great!!!!!:-)
no-one wants this issue to go away….and if states work independently, that will be great.
this health care reform bill is only a beginning, that many of us have been waiting for, for decades.
the defeat of the clinton health care demise was a great disappointment and the poor handling of it caused a shambles for health care reform that lasted for over a decade.
now we have a chance to begin.
any progress that can be made in the future, will be likelier if we begin.
nothing is going to start out perfectly.
you surely know that as well as i do.
but if you kill this bill, it will die, just as health care died after the demise in the clinton administration.
we absolutely cannot let that happen again.
……….anyone willing to take that risk now, is being flagrantly irresponsible.
we watched the chance for health care go down in flames once, and if you stall and imperil this bill, it will happen again.
pass this bill.
You’ll be eligible for Medicare before anything in this health “reform” bill does anything meaningful for you. In the meantime your premiums are likely to get even higher. The best thing you can do for your health is to stop drinking the Democratic Party koolaid.
“…and if states work independently”
That would have required the Kucinich Amendment that Obama took off the floor and replaced with Stupak. Gotta keep up, Karen.
It’s time to revise the title of this post. The amount of money contributed to Dennis has gone up considerably since the last revision!
” In the meantime your premiums are likely to get even higher. The best thing you can do for your health is to stop drinking the Democratic Party koolaid.”
you know, i am not just concerned about my premiums going higher.
perhaps you should take the time and really sit down and read this bill in its entirety.
if you have not done that, dont just put out talking points.
there is a great deal in this bill that is going to help a great many people.
to ignore that, shows ignorance, as well as your adherence to a party line.
as for me, i dont drink kool-aid, and i think for myself, and make my decisions on what i will fight for, on what i think is best not just for myself, but for others.
if you help to endanger this bill, you will be putting many people’s health and lives at risk…..
and for what?
i honestly dont think you have sat down and considered the “actual” consequences that would ensue if you destroy this bill now.
it would be sadly catastrophic, from every point of view.
i have said my piece here.
i am fighting for passage of this bill.
i am not holding out til my medicare, or drinking party koolaid, and my last name is not ignani.
i am a deeply concerned person…who really cares about the wellbeing of other people, and has learned through years of walking the walk, that life is about serious compromise and doing the best that you can with what you have to work with.
i once was a rainbow chaser, but now i try hard to live in the world of reality, and make a difference where i stand, instead of in the world of illusion and misplaced idealism.
i hope that you will reconsider,
and please fight for the passage of this bill.
thank you.
and i would like to add:
for dennis kucinich…..
if you are reading this….
as someone who worked for you in the beginnings of the presidential election….and someone who was deeply saddened by the lack of respect you were shown in the early debates, and has often had admiration for your stands in the past, i believe you are on the wrong side of this now.
as someone who works in a homeless shelter, who herself has pre-existing conditions, who has just received the largest rate increase from anthem-blue cross….and who gives up much of her salary for her health care premium, i am asking you to please support this health care bill.
there are battles worth fighting for, and there are wars worth winning.
please support this bill, and help to get it passed now.
every day that this bill flounders, puts health care reform a little more out of our reach. please, we must pass this bill now. the time for dialogue and final stands has ended.
thank you very much.
You came into this thread and started calling us all out for chasing rainbows and warning us against fucking up Dear Leader’s agenda. And you’re still babbling about “misplaced idealism” and “ignorance” and suggesting that you know more about the bill than we do. Nobody is going to reconsider anything based on your obnoxious and condescending comments.
Man, the neoliberals are workin’ us like crazy. Not gonna happen. This ain’t DKos by a long shot.
i am suggesting that you read this bill in its entirety and see for yourself that it will help many people.
and i do think that if you believe stalling and possibly killing this bill, is going to bring you any closer to health care reform and actually help people who need help now, your idealism is indeed, misplaced.
and sorry if you find my statements condescending or obnoxious, and wont reconsider any of the things i said. sometimes, the truth interferes with our opinions.
read the bill, and give it another chance. it will help many people.
many more than will be helped, if you let it die on the vine, and then weaken the possibility for any further legislation that might follow.
sadly, if you do that, you will win your battle, and we will surely all lose the war.
i hope you will think again.
read the bill.
and then help to pass it now.
the journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single footstep.
you dont reach your final destination with your first step.
work for change day by day.
we have a place to begin.
dont let it pass through our fingers, and be left in shambles.
you know that is what will happen.
pass the bill.
No.
“Dr. Marcia Angell has been one of the foremost champions of a “single payer” nationalized health system, a kind of Medicare for everyone that was a plan favored by Barack Obama before he was president. But he backed off in the health care debate, saying it’s just not viable in the current climate. ”
“BILL MOYERS: But this is all about politics now. It’s not about pure health care reform. So given that reality, what would you have the President do?
MARCIA ANGELL: Well, I think you really do have to separate the policy analysis from the political analysis and I’m looking at it as policy. And it fails as policy. Moreover, a lot of people say, “Let’s hold our nose and pass it, because it’s a step in the right direction.” And I say it’s a step in the wrong direction.
You’re right. Politics is different and there are a lot of people who say, “Look, it’s a terrible bill. Even a step in the wrong direction as policy goes. But we need to get Obama elected again and we need to continue with the Democratic majority in Congress. And so we need to give Obama and the Democrats a win. If we don’t, the Republicans will come in and take over Congress in the fall, and then the White House in 2012. But the problem with a political analysis is sometimes you’re right and sometimes you’re wrong. And Democrats and particularly liberals have a history of outsmarting themselves.
And I’m not so sure that if this bill goes down, it’s going to make it any harder for them politically. So I think it’s difficult times for the President and for the Democrats. But if you look at it as a matter of policy, the President’s absolutely right that the status quo is awful. If we do nothing, costs will continue to go up. People will continue to lose their coverage. Employers are dropping health benefits. Things will get very bad. The issue is will this bill make them better or worse? And I believe it will make it worse.”
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03052010/watch3.html
those with good conscience, work and fight for the things that they believe in, the things that they hope will make the world a better place.
i will continue to hope that over these next crucial weeks, this bill gets passed, with or without the blessings or help of those that fight it at every tune, on both sides of the aisle.
i am glad i was able to share my thoughts here.
always believe in the power of one.
just one person needs to resonate with a new thought or idea, to change the world.
i believe that this bill will pass.
and for many of us, especially those whose lives will be improved by the implementation of this bill, the passage of the first health care reform bill in many years, will be a cause for celebration.
there is no such thing as small change.
this bill already has a life of its own.
aim for the stars reach the moon
or in the case of democratic leadership
aim for the clouds reach the nearest hill
then use government subsidies to pay a private for-profit company to build a ladder from rotten wood to get to the top…
————-
And for everyone else that still supports this bill: what the democratic leadership is doing to you is EXTORTION and nothing more. By accepting this the only lesson they will get is that they can serve whatever crap corporations dictate and you’ll take it. And the more you agree to now, the more they’ll want from you in the future. Just like NAFTA wasn’t enough back then, they later had to get rid of Glass-Steagall too. And Medicare part D also wasn’t enough, now it’s necessary to mandate people to pay for profits for private companies.
Stop following people, start following ideals. Maybe you won’t reach the stars but you’ll certainly get to the moon.
“maybe you wont reach the stars but you’ll certainly get to the moon.”
yes, that works out well on greeting cards.
i would prefer not landing on the dark side of the moon.
let us try and fix the things on earth first.
……there is work to be done down here.
after years of stagnation and doing nothing,
let’s begin again.
the world of no, is a small world of a clenched fist….
the world of yes, is a chance to open up to change.
we dont live in a perfect world.
but we can try and fix it,
to make it better.
now is the time.
Rahm? Is that you Rahm?
No, nay, NEVER…I’d rather give my money to homeless man standing on the medium with a misspelled cardboard sign.
Jane,
I find David’s post on the vote count (especially when they go front page) confusing what the FDL Action stance happens to be on the health care vote.
Can we have an update as to what the current FDL Action stance is irt the health care vote?
“i’d rather give my money to homeless man standing on the medium with a misspelled cardboard sign.”
yes, you should do that too.
help others.
any way that you can.
anything that alleviates one person’s suffering
is a good thing.
“anything that alleviates one person’s suffering
is a good thing.”
Well not really, death and heroin aren’t good things. TARP alleviated a lot of bankers suffering, was that a good thing?
Yes it was, for the bankers.
Kill the bill.
Well not really, death and heroin aren’t good things. TARP alleviated a lot of bankers suffering, was that a good thing?
heroin doesnt alleviate suffering. it masks it.
and we dont know for sure if death alleviates suffering.
and you cannot make spiritually qualitative statements about what would alleviate the suffering of a banker.
but we do know, with absolute certainty,
is that health care for millions of people will definitely alleviate their suffering.
that is simply an undeniable fact, and unfortunately for you, there is nothing you can do to repudiate that statement.
your mantra to kill the bill, will cause suffering for many people, and you will need to work that through with your own conscience.
because, in truth, that is a fact.
good luck with that.
i would not want that on my conscience.
Lotta dancing around there, lady. My conscience is clear. But you are being led by the nose by professional liars whose only loyalty is to the corporations who pay them, and who will sell all Americans to those corporations to bleed us dry until we are dead and can no longer pay their CEO’s salaries. You are helping them with your gullibility and your santimonious intoning.
Your conscience is clear because you prefer to believe what you’re told.
You say you’ve read the entire bill. Please tell us which parts of it will kick in immediately, as opposed to in 2014. Please explain why we can’t alleviate the suffering of those people (or the death of 45,000 of them) this year, or even next year, instead; would that be impractical? You’ve spent umpteen posts here schooling us on how worthwhile the bill is, so I’m sure you can answer a couple of simple questions.
The bill will mandate that folks buy health insurance with no guarantees that they will be able to actually afford to use the insurance due to deductibles and co-pays.
There are no mechanisms that will do anything to force the insurance companies to actually offer affordable and usable plans. How does this provide “health care” to anyone?
“Your conscience is clear because you’re easily led.”
i am led by no-one.
just have been around long enough to know
the difference between reality and illusion.
suffering is real.
we can fix that now for a lot of people.
that is where i am putting my voice and effort
if you kill the bill,
you will be left with a victory
that will be nothing more
than a handful of ashes,
and lost possibilities.
i said my piece here,
in favor of passage of the bill.
and that is what i meant to do today.
if my words changed just one mind,
that would be a very good thing.
we never know.
“we never know.”
please speak for yourself.
She’s not going to answer you, except to post more of her singsong platitudes. She’s telling herself that she made a difference here by dragging one of us silly, impractical dreamers back into the real world she inhabits.
You just want a pony.
to hang out with her high horse?
alright, I’ve got to say it myself then.
It’s not her horse that’s high. yuk yuk
Not by a long shot! I read DKos from time to time, but have no interest whatsoever in commenting there or discussing issues there. Waste of time.
Frankly, I think DKos is part of the problem that is ruining the Democratic Party and that will lead to the thrashing that the Democrats are going to get come Nov.
Every politician tells falsehoods,promises the moon,and generally speaking comes thru with little….If congressman Kucinich is willing to stand by his word, then I’m right there with him. It is long overdue that the people who elected these “representatives” get off our collective asses and force them to keep their word! I fear that if this bill is allowed to pass as it is, we are all screwed! It is not “the best we can do!” Also I feel strongly that the Dems have shot themselves in the ass, and if they don’t start doing what is the best FOR THE COUNTRY then they deserve to lose! They had the opportunity and the support when Obama was elected and they blew that.
”
Every politician tells falsehoods,promises the moon,and generally speaking comes thru with little….If congressman Kucinich is willing to stand by his word, then i’m right there with him.”
maybe dennis kucinich read my letter after all!!!
thank you for doing the right thing, dennis kucinich, and putting your support behind the bill.
as i said, you never know who can be touched by the things that you write!
perhaps my letter made the difference!!!!
GIVE BACK THE CASH DENNIS!!
Enjoy it, Mr. Kucinich. It’s the last you’ll see from me.