Last August, progressive groups including MoveOn, DFA and blogs across the country came together to raise over $430,000 for 65 members of Congress who pledged to vote against any health care bill that doesn’t have a public option.
Now every excuse made by the President and Congress for not including a public option has crumbled. MoveOn is demonstrating against Kucinich for keeping that promise, and far from supporting members of Congress who keep that pledge, the unions are threatening them with primaries.
If George Bush had tried to pass a health care bill that was the worst blow to the right to choose since the passage of the Hyde Amendment 35 years ago, liberal groups would be screaming bloody murder.
Instead, the natural fiscal constituency of progressive members of Congress — those who should be backing them up for standing for progressive values — are whipping from the right.
The veal pen groups have become the enforcement arm for sweetheart deals that Rahm Emanuel cut with AHIP and PhRMA. And college students across the country are footing the bill, because Larry Summers doesn’t want to tax rich people.
I was on Ian Masters’ show yesterday, and he asked me what I thought of Dennis Kucinich’s position on health care.
I said “I find it odd that when it’s down to Joe Lieberman’s one vote, everybody shrugs their shoulders and says ‘oh well, we just have to write the bill Joe wants, because what can you do, one vote.’ And when it’s Dennis Kucinich’s one vote, which represents what 80% of the American people want, it’s “lets crush Dennis Kucinich so we can give Joe Lieberman everything he wants.” Somehow the argument keeps switching so that the corrupt deal that the White House negotiated with the pharmaceutical companies gets passed no matter what.”
I still don’t know if they can pass this monstrosity of a bill. But if progressives stand down and do nothing while corporate America runs roughshod our institutions and our representatives, no member of Congress will ever have the political courage to stand up against corporate power again.
Call members of Congress who said they would vote against any bill that doesn’t have a public option. Tell them to keep their promise.
Tell Diana DeGette and Louise Slaughter to release the letter with the names of 41 members who said they’d vote against any bill that restricts a woman’s right to choose, because this one does.
And donate to Dennis Kucinich to send a message that the progressive left hasn’t become a completely incoherent tool of corporate America.




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Oh my, oh my, quelle surprise! How about selling a t-shirt to raise some more funds?
“Come November, I’ll remember.”
Smile, keep the great attitude and have a great day.
Oh yeah, it ought to be yellow.
Bravo.
This is why I was a tad worried about shifting to student lending. I mean it’s good we focus on that.
But we can’t drop the pressure on HCR. This should be where we make our stand. No PO, anti abortion, with a mandate = no vote.
Again, still not sure they can pass it and don’t want to waste people’s time. And schools were going to get screwed. At least the White House thought they had to do something now, which is a victory. Punting until next year would’ve been a disaster. We’ll see if it still looks like a victory when they get done carving up the savings & passing them on to AHIP.
But sitting back while the veal pen whips from the right is just not an option.
Hey Jane: I heard the interview yesterday and enjoyed it. Brava!
I saw that Ian Masters posted his interview with Dennis K. to FDL yesterday and took a lot of heat for it, although I’m really not sure why. So far as I can tell, Masters is one of the good guys. What am I missing here?
Mussolini would be a perfect centrist US Senator today. And MoveOn would love him if he changed his name to Obama.
I’m ready to whip this afternoon. *snap snap* Who needs to hear from us most of all?
I have written, called, and e-mailed my Senators and my congressman. The only reply I received back was from the democrat version of Mitt Romney (Evan Bayh) who chose not to address healthcare, but a totally unrelated iaaue. I have written letters to 2 local newspapers and was called a screaming socialist, which didn’t hurt my feelings and have attended local pro-healthcare rallies. I know many people have done much more.
The ignorant don’t know, the stupid can’t learn and the rest don’t give a fuck. It’s over.
Thanks Jane for confirming FDL’s intelligence and supporting Kucinich. For the life of me, I cannot understand where these groups are coming from. Have they been corrupted the same way as Republican shills have? It’s the only thing that makes sense. You don’t spend 8 or more years railing for progressive or liberal ideals, and then attack politicians that are doing exactly what you say you support. I asked for the opinion of you, and other leaders of FDL the other day on one of the posts. Thanks for providing it and proving that you and this site are truly far and away, miles above most of the other fake blogs.
OT but Sarah Palin decided to match wits with Rep Alan Grayson. It is not pretty.
After saying this Rep. Grayson gets really mean and nasty and calls Sarah many names, such as “chillbilly”.
Accountability Now meetings must be a bit awkward at the moment.
People have it all wrong that Dems. are spineless jellyfish etc. to the contrary when it comes time to stand up for what they truly believe in they have absolutely no problem doing it. A close look at they’re voting record over the course of the last 2 decades would show you that. The Dems. are the more socially liberal wing of the Corporatist alliance that runs Congress , the WH and the SCOTUS and most of America. The Dems. are solidly part of the elite plutocracy that rules with an iron-fist. Are their policy disagreements and differences of political style among the two wings of the Corporatist Party , of course. nevertheless, when it comes down to CORE issues the neo-liberal agenda and large parts of the neo-conserv. agenda are firmly in the saddle. Health care is no difference in this regard. The bottom line here is NOTHING is going to change with anything important unless it first and foremost lines the pockets and enhances the power of the Corporatist elite/ aristocracy.
Beautiful.
I love to see the ConservaDems and reichwingers who come here squirming.
Corporate conserva-dems are known as the Blue Dogs; maybe it’s time to start calling the “Progressive Caucus” the Lapdogs.
It would be helpful, if an example of a time Congress had such political courage were included in this narrative.
“The Wild Alaskan Dingbat.” – Now I’ve got my water all up my nose, but the snort was well worth it.
Absolutely correct.
Bravo! Well said.
Lapdogs only lick their own butt.
Jane, we will see what goes down. It doesn’t look pretty. Then we may agree that whips, phone calls and letters won’t do it. If we get there we can start talking alternatives.
I’m not sure you can blame MoveOn. Their members voted in favor, didn’t they? I’m sure if you asked them what was in the bill they would have no idea. To be honest, neither do I.
Painful as it is, the healthcare debate allows us to see who is, and is not, progressive. Remember that progressive is not some ideological stance. It does not say lower taxes are the solution to everything. Or when in doubt bail out the corporations. It is a commitment to solutions, whatever they might be, that really work, promote social fairness and justice, provide for Americans, not just the rich, a secure and good life in jobs, health, education, and old age, and do so not at the expense of the rest of the world.
We see in what Jane calls the veal pen, the unions, in the Congress, the Obama Presidency, and the Democratic party no such commitment, in whole or in part. We see rather in them a persistence in the pursuit of business as usual even though this approach has done nothing but fail our country and brought it to the point of collapse once and, likely, in the not too distant future again.
How a few people control millions of people.
If you control what people know, you will control what they do.
This is the essence of how the Corporate Elite try to maintain control. They lie, they lie, they lie, they lie,
However, these lies are about run into the TRUTH, and the truth is going to win in a land slide.
Obama and some of the Dems are trying to maintain the lie with the help of MOVEON, DAILY KOS, etc. this is insane, because if MOVEON, Daily Kos, lose their creditability and their members find out they are a part of plan that goes against everything they stand for, this will result in a total change of leadership, or leadership will attack the White House hard to capture theur creditability back.
Obama and some of the Dems are playing with FIRE and they are going to get BURNED.
I just received a fund-raising email from MoveOn which encouraged me to immediately unsubscribe:
Just shows the framing on this. They claim that 83% of their followers support this action.
I told them:
My status update at facebook: MoveOn is moving to primary any Dem who votes against President Obama’s Health Insurance Giveaway plan. I just unsubscribed from their mailing list and told them if they’re followers are so uninformed about what’s in the bill, it’s their own fault.
What is up with this screwy formatting?
Pelosi’s Poodles?
“But if progressives stand down and do nothing while corporate America runs roughshod our institutions and our representatives, no member of Congress will ever have the political courage to stand up against corporate power again”
It’s too late for the senate. 97% Of senators receive money from PACs. 10% or less from individuals.
And as we have seen from HCR, the Senate writes all bills, so the house may just a well go home and campaign. With the backlog of about 300 bills they can rightly claim they’ve done their job.
HP is broadcasting Mr. Bipatisan’s speech in Ohio. He just said the current legislation is “like a patients bill of rights on steroids.” The posters and the audience are so tickled.
I did the same thing. I’m now an ex-Move-On member, and, when they wrote back asking why I’d left, they got quite an earful.
The tone of general media coverage of this last five yard push for Obama’s AHIP desired HCR is numbing in its obscuring of the particulars and glossing over how this Obama AHIP run with full pubic plan shut out is going to work. Subsidy formulas will require lots of paperwork,screening of applicants on income/employment/household wealth status. The mandate is not getting enough attention. It is going to be more complicated and convoluted than the current AHIP regime is. Still employment/employer based. Still not a single card plan like SS or Medicare is. Simple? No.
Obama and his Sell Out Party are not giving us anything six months,a year or even two years from today. This so called Great Advance Forward in American HC is not showing up much before 2013 or more likely 2014-2015.
Meanwhile what AHIP and PhRMA get out of it are being taken to the bottom line next month on the future calculations they can do after Obama signs their HCR buy off.
Barack Obama deserves all the political hell that surely is going to come his way once more Americans figure out what was not done,will not be done and what they are going to not get out of this Obama AHIP HCR.
The current rotation villain evidently is Nancy Pelosi — the Democrat who since 2007 has sabotaged and taken all the detours on or over what so many had hoped the Democrats in Congress would do to Bush/Cheney WH and the R Party warmongers and tax cut imbeciles. Hopefully Pelosi is going to pay a big price for her lack of leadership and non stop cave ins like the one she is teeing up on HCR PO shut out.
Barack Obama is a fraud and those who don’t get or understand that if G.W.Bush had pushed to give Americans AHIP’s HCR craptastic plan he would have been taken to the pillory. Obama is doing what G.W.Bush just as easily could have done. The partisan blindness taking place here is plainly corrupt when viewed on it’s political taint and skew.
Obama and Pelosi and Reid are going to all tell us how wonderful they are for giving us this pile of steaming manure.
The favor should be returned next November. Vote these closet corporatist errand runners out of office. Let the real corporatists rule and wreak ruin. Villain rotation for real. Not this fake BS Obama and Pelosi are peddling while telling us how lucky we are to get their BS.
To hell with em’.
Can someone explain to me what we get if this bill goes down?
Obama as the current captain of the Titanic is dipping a single canoe oar over the side trying to steer the ship away from the iceberg.
Fortunately, for Liberals, Anthropogenic Global Warming has been proven to be a man-made hoax, and they are not burning up in all those layers of clothing, e.g. Liberals wearing Progressive Clothing under Corporatists Clothing and all clothing under Sheep Clothing.
Today, with Democrats pushing for more added debt on top of American Taxpayers (i.e. HCR debt with Student Loan debt on top, and the possibility of a Public Option debt on top of those), we hear that – Social Security to start cashing Uncle Sam’s IOUs. Naturally, since the U.S. Treasury is broke, the government will now have to borrow more money (i.e. go even deeper into debt)…
You ready to call for a general strike YET?
Talking and typing ARE NOT taking action.
I’ve been telling you guys for more than a decade nothing is going to change until you doing direct action that’s cost somebody serious money.
Are you ready to actually DO something, or are you gonna sit on your ass and type some more?
I just unsubscribed too. The progressive organizations and blogs that truly represent me have dwindled to a very precious few in the past year. It’s really a shame.
Citizen Hamsher:
It’s time to stand up for Kucinich and get folks like me who have been usin MoveOn as an alternative to the DNC and DCCC to bomb ‘em with the same message we’ve sent the DNC and DCCC: “Not another dime for anything until you stop subsidizin’ Blue Dogs.”
Kos stated a long time ago that he hated Kucinich and he comes from a right wing background. He’s a Clintonista and has made himself into a “playa” witness his push in Alaska to get his carpetbagger candidate to oppose Young instead of the respected local Democrat. This is war on the left Sister Jane and you’re next on their target list unless you mobilize the troops and let ‘em know you’re willin’ to break the Democratic majority in the House this fall unless they back off.
I been sayin’ for a long time that it’s time to kill the bill, and not just threaten to kill it. If healthcare reform dies and the Democrats lose the House this fall they can’t blame it on the “left” because all that remains of their party in the House will be progressives, the Blue Dogs are toast if healthcare fails. And with a fascist Republican majority in the House Obama will not have enough corporatists in his own partym in the House to triangulate with the Repulicans ‘cuz they won’t play.
This hasta be addition by substraction, in order to turn the Democratic Party back to it’s New Deal roots we’re gunna hafta hunker down and take some loses this fall… insurrection from the left wing of the party is all we have left and it’s gotta be public and bloody.
An earlier collapse of a system destined to fail.
The Health Inurance business business is currently both shedding customers and raising prices to stay profitable – That’s a death spiral.
The HCR bill sustains the current the broken Health Insurance model with subsidies and penalties until the continually increasing health provider costs brings this new, subsidized health insurance model to its knees.
Loopholes.
Careful with that broad brush. You don’t know who’s doing what outside of this blog.
We get a chance to do it right. Once you break ground with this obamination it will become a fact on the ground, like Israeli settlements on Palestinian land.
They’re now playing a John Philip Sousa march after Mr. Bipartisans’ speech. And we thought Republicans were nothing but lemmings. Most Dims aren’t much different.
Blue Texan’s regularly scheduled post is ready: Ross Douthat: Why Can’t Hollywood Portray the Bush Administration in a More Positive Light for Launching a Disastrous War that Killed Hundreds of Thousands of Innocent People?
When I first came to FDL as a blogger and a reader of blogs I wanted to see if you guys could help me make up my mind regarding HCR. I’ve been a liberal Democrat all my life and I’m inclined to look at the Party in the best light even when that light is quite dim. Well, I’ve heard the argument that we’ve got to take what we can get, the politics of the possible. But that just isn’t good enough. Progressives have compromised as far as is reasonably possible, from single-payer to public option and to go further is not compromise but appeasement. Without a public option and with a mandate my answer is no. With the anti-choice language in the bill my answer is no. And I feel comfortable with that position. That comfort comes from people like you.
Gag me. I can’t stand to watch the emperor strut around in his new clothes any more. I’m so glad I am moving over the next few weeks and will have little time for TV. It’s going to get deep.
Lapdogs, i like it.
and so it goes.
If someone gives you a cyanide laced piece of candy, do you ask what you get if you don’t eat it? Do you still want to eat it because even though it will kill you it’s still sugary? The healthcare bill has been from day one about creating a captive market for private insurers of another 30 million. It is not about actually providing them with healthcare services, just forcing them to buy crap insurance few of them can use without going broke. It is about cutting Medicare by around $400 billion over ten years. It is about using those cuts if this bill gets passed as a launching pad to cut Social Security. Or maybe you were unaware of Obama’s February 2009 conference on reducing budgets by cutting Medicare and Social Security or of the deficit commission he just put together with the same goal in mind.
Yeah, Obama is enraptured by Republican Congressman Ryan’s buyout plan for SS. The best is yet to come. So long New Deal, say hello to Raw Deal.
Unsubscribed with the following note:
Hugh, you don’t seem to grasp that when Democrats usher through Republican wet dreams, it’s all good!
One infinity sign looped into another, over and over again. No way out. We are trapped.
uhoh. I feel sick. Hope it isn’t something bad.
Damn, almost makes me sorry I unsubscribed a while ago. I’d have loved to steal some of your stuff, particularly the last line. Oh, well, mayhaps an email will be a treat. When they reverted to their Clintonista ways I dumped ‘em.
It’s not candy, it’s kool-aide and it’s tootie fruity. Everyone’s favorite! Drink up. See you on the other side!
Never did like bug juice. Navy always had it when we ran out of milk. Yuk.
Perfect. In a minute you’ll get the “are you sure you meant to unsubscribe” email, just in case you find yourself wishing you were still hanging out with the popular kids.
I unsubscribed from MoveOn for not holding politicians to their promise and buying a pig in a poke.
Back to work.
Namaste
It’s just another variation on the Shock Doctrine; as with the Bank Bailout fiasco, Dems and Progressives are actually taking the lead to pass this corporate bailout because they’ve been sold the fear-mongering again! Did Obama bring Markos with him on Air Force One to intimidate Kucinich? Please, how pathetic the whole Dem party has become with the exception of DK, Grayson, and Sanders. BTW, is Anthony Weiner still one of our “firedogs?”
Fucked slightly less harder and a little less often.
But hey, it IS an improvement.
But truth be told, a better question is what do we NOT get if this bill is passed. Because we don’t get health care (only health insurance, and right now lots of folks have health insurance and still wind up bankrupted or unable to afford health care) and we don’t get, EVER, real reform, since this bill enshrines complete power to the for profit insurance industry, which means they’re going to now be deemed “too big to fail” and so Single Payer dreams are forever GONE.
And that doesn’t even mention the fucking we’ll get from all the big business interests with lots of money who now see the precedent of a mandate to purchase goods and services as the ticket they too can use to spruce up their bottom lines.
But hey, what’s the big deal right? It’s all good when Democrats do the fucking.. right???
Here’s what I just don’t understand. We all that this bill is an absurd corporatist hand-out to private insurance companies to the tune of somewhere around $76 billion that the politicians are trying to call ‘Health Insurance Reform’ is a complete farce and wll only result in huge captive audiences to insurance monopolies and further entrench those parasites in the health care aparatus. Right?
So why are the so-called conservatives still fighting tooth and nail to prevent this bill from passing? There surely must be something killer juicy in the bill they know might actually benefit the middle class or they wouldn’t be turning their back on a huge gift like this would they? Are they just licking the gift horse in the mouth or do they just really hate non-rich people so much they do not even want to allow us meaningless insurance reform?
All this excuse for a bill is giving me a health condition: trichotillomania
Bingo, sadly. FDL is one of the places I really feel at home, cybernetically and politically.
Adam 503 is right about the need for non-keyboard action, though.
Great idea!
jstrick: Can someone explain to me what we get if this bill goes down?
We get the purity of our convictions validated! We get the thrill of our cynical wisdom! We get to live in the eternal promise of future perfection! We get to stop millions of poor people from getting Medicaid…wait, that part sounds wrong…
You might want to lay off the Kool-Aid…. just a tad.
Ween yourself off though, a little at a time, otherwise reality might come upon you too fast and cause a break down.
But you can do it. Lots and lots of folks that used to drink the stuff religiously have given it up. So can you.
It’s a rolling bipartisan coup. Our economic elites have no problems with either party as long as they carry their water for them.
Continuing to frame the current state of domestic economic affairs in terms of Rep. vs Dem. totally obfuscates the reality, which is Class War. Our Gov. is waging a war against wage earners on behalf of the oligarchs, and they rely on Partisan hack numb nuts to implement their New World Order.
There is no purity in anyones convictions on this matter.
Total straw man.
I guess all those shiny new wire coat hangers you are planning on handing young women will be pure too.
Bug juice? Did it get its name from carmine dye?
I didn’t say so yesterday, but I wanted to tell Jane I think her comparing the Progressive Caucus to the Jim Jones club was better than the Paths of Glory analogy. Those guys were at least fighting the right enemy, these guys are just downright turncoats or totally without brains.
I completely agree with Student loan Reforming Jane. I’m not doubting your strategy there. Even tho it’s getting butchered just like HCR and Financial Reg.
But right now HCR is the megaphone, it’s what gets you on TV. And TV needs way more of us going “fuck you Kucinich is right and Kos is a Reaganite liar”. Well, maybe not that exact line on TV..but I can hope.
Progressives need to be felt. We’re being heard, our message is out there, but we’re not being felt nearly enough. We need to be out there rep[eating it over and over again like Fox news does.
All warfare is propaganda.
I saw President Obama earlier this morning calling out Dennis Kucinich in front of a crowd in Ohio…disgraceful. Where was the President’s leadership all last year when he allowed the health care reform argument to be framed by others?
Rep Kucinich has been consistent in his views on health care reform, unlike Obama, who was AWOL for virtually the whole process…and when the President finally gets engaged, it’s in support of a reprehensible Senate bill that most Americans, including most progressives, detest. I say MOST progressives only because it would appear that a majority, if not All, of the House progressive caucus has decided to abandon the rank-and-file progressives who elected them. Apparently, they will vote in favor of legislation they vowed never to support.
They should be ashamed…on the other hand, it’s evident that this White House has no shame.
We get to not bailout the insurance industry!
We get to not take away money from Medicare to fake insure a bunch of poor people!
We get to not have a Federal mandate for healthcare with no PO to balance it out!
We get to nto have a moratorium on perscription drug rates!
We get to not pretend we’re getting rid of the pre-existing conditions problem, because we’re covering you sure, but at 3 times the cost.
Oh and yes, we also get to stick to our convictions.
Gee, I just deleted my e-mail from them. I’ll guess I’ll have to go back to my scrap heap, resuscitate it and respond.
Dennis is a stand up guy with whom I agree on almost nothing, but I have tremendous respect for him because he is consistent and walks the walk. He is principled, and I respect that even if I don’t agree.
There are too few in Washington like him.
We are all now in a pickle from this situation. It seems what is about to pass is a real monstrosity, but not passing it leaves open the potential of nothing passing.
We need single payer–and not Medicare for all–and I think this bill will forestall any effort at single payer for years and years. With the uninsured becoming “insured” (ok, by force of going to jail if you don’t get insurance or pay the tax), the incentive to go to single payer will be nil. The problem is “solved,” so why solve it again?
There will be no public support for re-looking at, especially with the traumatic way this is all ending.
At least, if the bill goes down and some immediate stop-gap fixes are in place on a smaller scale, the door is still open to single payer.
As one of the people this healthcare bill goes so far as to almost single out by name for a royal fucking over; I’d like to extend a proposal to expand Medicaid (or even roll it into Medicare), without attaching it as a rider to a string of odious de facto fascist policies.
Because, they don’t have to be part and parcel of the same package you know.
Synoia: An earlier collapse of a system destined to fail.
Of all the stupid arguments I hear against the bill, this is the one that fills me with the most despair. Why is it that the people who are most cynical about the political system in the current moment always display such blind optimism about its future rationality?
Awesome. Put the right music to it and you’ve got a hit. *g*
Ahh, Mr. Burns wringing his hands with glee “Exccellent”. If HIR doesnt pass he wins, if HIR does pass he wins.
I was afraid of this. Time to get off the blogs and fight. I, once again, call on everyone to cancel their health insurance and refuse to buy into this travesty. The only way to get their attention is to vote with your wallet.
See ya all at the emergency room! BTW, ‘chillbilly’ ROTFLMAO! Go Grayson!
Sorry but, given the choice of this bill and no bill, I’ll take this bill. Kucinich can stand on his principals but, that’s not going to get me any coverage at a rate I can afford. Kucinich is the Ross Perot of the left. I understand that he flew out to Ohio on Air Force One with the President today. I just saw a clip on MSNBC. Anyway, it will be interesting for you Kucinich fans to see just how he votes this week. But, I couldn’t care less about him. He’s coming off looking like a loon and so are his followers. Your my way or the highway bullshit just isn’t going to work. You folks should either face reality or take your ball and go home.
Hugh, thank you for this analogy.
I’ve been thinking all week, trying to create one that describes this situation ["Oh, we've GOT to have this or we'll get NOTHING."]
All I could come up with was if we shipped the starving people of Haiti a boatload of worm-infested hot dogs and told them we’d “fix things later.”
But your example is much more apt.
Thanks again.
What looks like Economic Darwinism in it’s fully naked glory is seen by the Democrat Partisans as progressive reform in splendid finery.
I am in awe of the power of authoritarian tribalism.
I answered your question, and explained why. Then you dislike the answer, and attack.
Please explain how the new and improved health insurance model is sustainable, given the history and prediction of medical provider costs, with current lack of provider cost control.
I’m fully for Health Care Reform. As an expert consumer in the UK’s NHS, I like that model. I’m all for single payer state run institutions in many cases. Marketing and sales are expensive.
How high a co-pay and deductible can you afford? What are you going to do when the insurance companies roll the amount of the subsidy you get into their premium price?
Since the government isn’t indexing the subsidies against future price increases, you’ll be forced to buy something you can’t afford, even with the subsidy, and in either case there’s exactly nothing to make it so you can afford to actually use the thing you’re being forced to buy.
This is so unfair.
Ao so totally fucking hillarious! I would find it funny even if I didn’t detest Palin with every fiber of my being.
And what precisely makes you think a force of law to buy private insurance will magically make insurance companies (and pharmaceuticals) become affordable?
Hold your ground congressman Kucinich. Hold your ground!
I wouldn’t be too cheered by Republican opposition to Obama’s health care bill. They were always going to oppose any big bills Obama put forward, especially on such a life or death issue. Their opposition has less to do with ideology (although they generally don’t want to recognize health care as a right – not that Obama’s bill does that) and everything to do with politics. The Republicans are cynically refusing to work with Obama because it’s the quickest way back to power, and Obama is obliging them by pushing an erratic set of policies easily attacked.
Anyone else disgusted by MoveOn’s about-face? Threatening liberals with primaries for not voting for a right-wing health care bill? Way to cede the moral high ground guys!
Yes, much better to listen to the captain of the Titanic because he is the captain and if he says everything is all right, who are we to question? I mean what could go wrong.
Just remember that 10 years from now.
Cause you support it now, you own it then.
Good luck with that.
Yeah, I wasn’t cheered. I feel more like a thirsty wildebeast looking suspiciously at some ‘tasty’ brakkish water wondering if there is an alligator lurking about.
Them alligators are crocodiles. Much nastier than alligators.
Temper, temper…
“Kucinich can stand on his principals but, that’s not going to get me any coverage at a rate I can afford.”
Actually, it’s the only thing that will.
Yesterday Mr. Backroom Deals lied, today Congress does what it’s told by corporate interests, tomorrow you start getting even more inflated premiums, and three years from now you’ll get a turd for an insurance policy while the CEO of Cigna still collects over 20 million in salary while millions more go bankrupt and, oh yeah… live WITHOUT healthcare.
With a healthy side of giant pythons and tiger pirhanna.
What are you firebaggers going to do when the bill passes? You’ll probably fight for improvements. Right now though, you all sound like those petulant teabaggers. The minuet Jane sided with Norquits was the day she went full on teabagger and sent several of us progressives packing. Now some of you are unsubscribing from Moveon.org? Don’t worry. They probably won’t even notice you’re gone. See you after the bill passes. Can’t wait to see what you’ll write about then. The passing of the bill you tried to stop from passing but, like the Republicans you’ll both fail miserably!
“You folks should either face reality or take your ball and go home.”
This discussion is not about purity. It’s about money. The reality is money. Your money.
How are you going to pay your ever increasing Health Insurance premiums with 30% going the the health insurance companies for profits and useless paperwork required to run a defective medical system, 30% going to the for profit hospital chains and drug companies, and 30% going to the student lenders for the doctors and nurses to pay off huge educational loans, and a measly 10% going toward your medical care?
Is that all you’ve got???
Calling us names and ridiculing us???
Why not discuss and debate THE ACTUAL BILL and the actual ISSUES???
I’ll be glad to have a back and forth with you, with respect and only debating the issues rather than turning to name calling (which is getting really old).
Besides, you just might change my mind…
What are you firebaggers going to do when or if the bill passes?
1. Fight for single payer.
2. Fight for direct student lending.
3. Fight for investment in the future, not the past.
Our work will never be done. There are many vested interests in the past. None in the future.
That’s the difference between conservation (looking to the past), and progressive or liberal, looking to the future.
When I called Doggett’s office they said they’d gotten lots of calls in the last hour and was I being pushed by an organization to call. I told them I’ve been against this bill since the beginning when Obama was making deals with big pharma and the insurance companies and that it’s in the news that the vote is coming up soon, that no organization was pushing me.
roxsteady’s world view is faith based, there are no rational, logical arguments, nor facts that will sway rox from her firm faith in alchemy.
Comes from summer camp as a kid in the 50s. Pretty common name for it until the 70s.
I have already done it, I declined my health insurance in 2008 when the premiums increased 100%. I encourage all of you to do the same and give fake SSN’s when you show up in the emergency room. It’s not illegal in an incorrect SSN out when there is no legal right for the reuqestor to ask for it in the first place.
And if you do not have health insurance anyway? Don’t buy when this bill passes. I would encourage you to up your medical insurance rider on your vehicle insurance as that is probably the best chance you have of needing immediate medical attention.
I have a few minor maladies i deal with on a daily basis and many people do, but they arent worth it to me to be ripped off by a monopolistic plutocracy. CANCEL YOUR HEALTH INSURANCE PARTICULARLY IF YOU ARE RELATIVELY HEALTHY! DO NOT BUY INSURANCE UNDER THE MANDATE!!
Their-”It’s THEIR football.”
They’re-”They are playing football.”
There-”The football is over there.”
You mangled all three of them in one comment.
Killin me.
And I’m in FULL accord with your comment about dem’s being an equal member of the corporate oligarchy and it it for themselves to support the corpos. It’s called facism.
You all should check out the original Social Security bill & compare it to the law as it evolved over time.
Blue Texan has a linky in the Early Morning Swim topic, second one I think, that leads to The Hill.
Read THEM comments, hoss, if ya want a good laugh or cry . . . makes ya wanna bang head on desk.
Sometimes, it just seems to overwhelming . . . . rolling this Rock Of Right up Mount Wrong every day.
Here’s The Hill Story, But BlueTexan Gets The EMS HatTip
OT – At Democracy Now:
The conscience of America:
Noam Chomsky on Obama’s Foreign Policy, His Own History of Activism, and the Importance of Speaking Out.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/3/15/noam_chomsky_on_obamas_foreign_policy
You should probably check out NAFTA and how that’s been “improved” since it’s original passing. Oh, and they even “promised” to fix that later.
Apples and oranges, – no non productive middle men skimming profits in SS.
Your last sentence is a doozy . . . it sure feels overwhelming at times. don’t it. Read that Hill Linky I copped from Blue Texan, then get ready to brace yerself with a double shot of good whiskey to wash the bad taste out.
Hang tough OHJ, there’s GOT to be some good happening as more and more of we the people are woken and realize they’re being screwed by their own leaders and saviors. The prog tide IS swelling, but the backlash is too.
Well, for one, it could be done right. Universal coverage, Medicare (Improved!) for All. The kind of thing first world industrialzed nations already do.
Too bad the Dem leadership won’t use the reconciliation to do a Medicare expansion. But they’re nothing if not great at blowing historic opportunities.
This reminds me of the time when Representative Barbara Lee was the only progressive or democrat in the house that was brave enough or principled enough to vote no on Bush’s war of choice. The democrats suffer from a serious herd mentality and unfortunately they dont seem to learn from their past mistakes. Instead of asking hard questions about the bill they only want to pass one so this president does not appear weak. I have a message for them, this president is weak and nothing they do can mask that. If the democrats think that forcing people to buy health insurance from private insurers who have no competition, and enforcing their purchase of health care throught the reach of the IRS, is a good idea, they need to lose their seats, because they are truly living in another world. Five years from now when we are in our forced plans and we watch helplessly as AETNA raises its premiums with impunity, and people are losing their credit ratings or worse bcz they cant afford the plans and the IRS is enforcing the law, these same dems are going to get on tv and say like ( like they did on Iraq) that they made a mistake and were given bad information from the president on the bill. It wont matter to Obama bcz he will have been sent home in 2012 and working as one of the board of directors for (guess who) AETNA.
I fully concur with your comment.
Given the flack Mz. Hamsher and FDL’ers get I’m sure it eases their wounds to hear our words of praise.
They earn every letter of it.
Sad, true, but funny, nice catch.
Shorter Inquisitr: we get the status quo with no changes at all. How does that grab y’all?
What no one is being told is what they will be demanded to PAY for will result in higher co-pays, higher premiums, higher deductibles and lower lifetime caps, thus making it impossible to afford for 2/3rd’s or more of the purported 30 million it will mandate to BUY insurance coverage.,
Essentially, we the people get the shaft, and the insurance companies get the gold mine of IRS enforced tithing upon the American people, only the money goes to a private business, not a church or a government.
Know that’s not REALLY the nature of your question, but I’m a bit riled after my second cup of espresso.
Pelosi be damned for selling out the PO in the hour just before the dawn, too, as long as I’m venting.
Obama has a rescue helicopter at the ready in the form of a cushy corp lobby job after one term. He’s not going down with we the people.
If the bill doesn’t pass, the Big Health Insurance Parasites (BHIP) don’t get a larger pool of hosts from which to suck their financial life blood.
We don’t get another subsidized set of corporations screwing us with our taxes, given out to them via several routes, among them the subsidies for the less well-off among us. Also, of course, there are the IRS-enforced mandates to buy their insurance — and many will only be able to afford junk insurance which will leave them still at risk of bankruptcy when they get the 40% of cost co-pays, plus whatever games the BHIPs still manage to game us with. Or, they’ll continue to self-deny due to high and unpredictable costs of actually receivng care.
Oh, and their new profit protection, Obama’s BAILOUT for BHIP, will give them the wherewithal to continue to buy our Congress and presidents. Now, with the Supreme 5 having granted them even more rights of personhood, they can spend whatever it takes.
The US government TOOK the SS money long ago and OWES it to the taxpayers who paid INTO SS!!!
Billions upon billions were TAKEN from SS to use for other purposes under at LEAST 4 presidents, I think (didn’t the looting start with Reagan?).
In times of depression (this is NOT a recession, it’s a depression jobs wise and economically wise, only the stock market is holding it’s own recently) FDR proved it was time to inject all KINDS of government printed money into the system to prop it up, deficits would be paid down as jobs were created and taxes paid towards the deficit.
Blaming SS for our deficits is not only insane it’s factually incorrect. You misinform completely in your comment.
Last I read in the bill, they can only assess you 2.5% of your income. Sure beats having up to 15% of your income shoehorned into Aetna’s corporate coffers. Just refuse to buy under the mandate!
Actually, you answered someone else’s question, but that’s okay– I did attack.
I doubt that it is. But it makes things much better. And I believe that more reforms will follow it.
I agree completely. I’m Canadian by birth, and massively prefer the Canadian system to anything that’s on the table here.
If you live in the UK, you live under a political system with very few veto points: the party with the majority of seats in the House of Commons can pretty much do whatever it wants, and if the voters don’t like it they vote them out. Congratulations! That’s actually something like democracy.
I live in California, where just enough Republicans remain at the state level to block Democratic attempts to create a stable budget. So for many years the Democrats have cobbled together something, anything that can get through the legislature: accounting tricks, payday loans, straightforward kickbacks–whatever it takes. Now the bill has finally come due, and the sheer scale of the budgetary disaster is apparent to all.
The system is indeed collapsing. Are we seeing rational agreement, then, on what needs to be done? Are the Republicans acknowledging that tax increases are now, finally, necessary, and stopping their obstruction? Do we see politicians of either party taking unpopular stands in order to save the state? Are Californians as a whole getting behind the necessary political reforms? No. No. No. And No.
If the health care system collapses, it will collapse under our current political system, not a parliamentary system, and not a magic ponies-for-everyone system. And as it collapses, the wealthy and the powerful will do whatever they must to make sure that they’re okay (e.g., massive expansion of HSAs), and the rest of us will be fucked. Anyone who believes otherwise, I would suggest, is living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.
Actully it is something to the tune of $3 TRILLION that has been, euphemistically ‘borrowed’ with purportedly interest. Now they don’t want to pay back the loan. SSA is technically solvent and will be until at least 2040. This whole fiscal responsibility bullshit is a red-herring so the government cock maggots can weasel out of the loan the SSA made them in good faith.
Now they just want to rip us all off and call it ‘bi-partisan cooperation on a difficult set of problems’. PEH!
Now now now Adam, it’s not us progs here at FDL you should be talking to, it’s the millions upon millions who continue to swallow the sheep’s swill of fleeced folly you should be talking to.
The libertarians, the blue dog dem voters, the so called conservative voters, the right wing voters.
Us progs are ready and willing to hit the streets for the most part, as soon as there’s a call to do so.
In the 60′s, we had millions in the streets and we did not shy away from it due to our numbers which included at LEAST 70% or more of non progs . . . today, we progs would stand alone to no avail or purpose.
We need the rest of we the people to be willing to commit to the streets . . . let me know when you have that organized, will ya?
BTW, Obama did give some hints of what he would actually do about health care, education — details, links in my comment below.
My sentiment exactly. We need to do something that rattles the complacency of the corporate masters.
Like, maybe, a mass sit-in at the Capitol Building on April Fool’s Day?
few in america understand this is doing exactly what capitalism is intended to do.
but americans dont want to look at the system they want to blame.
the christians blame the devil, the atheists blame religion, the voters blame the politicians, the have nots blame wall street, and so it goes blame blame blame and no one looks at the system.
even the progressives are in love with the capitalist system and they only think we have two choices capitalism or socialism.
in my day it was capitalism or communism. the capitalists are ten times smarter than most including the progressives. ie the very definition of dualism thinking. the relative world is about variation not dualism.
they have created in the minds of progressives capitalism and patroitism are synonyms. even better they have put into the minds of progressives that capitalism is the only road to personal freedoms.
sorry progressives but until you look deep into the evils of the capitalist system you will remain the puppets of the capitalists and corp fascism.
Obama use the wording “health insurance reform” when he’s being careful…not “health care reform.”
He tends to use the second when he’s in campaign mode.
So what happened, when did the Democratic Party become a full blown Reagan Democrat Party? Why are Democrats espousing Republican policies and rabidly applauding them?
Can we agree to quit calling this health care reform? I saw one person mostly correctly name it health insurance reform. Whatever kind of reform it is, we need to make sure we refer to it as “reform.” I use air quotes whenever I refer to it (my husband laughs every time, although I’m quite serious).
Why give any credibility to the idea that it is reform when it is not?
@121 “Us progs are ready and willing to hit the streets for the most part, as soon as there’s a call to do so.”
True. But who is going to make the call?
A lot of people are going to be doing just that!
I wouldn’t have been with ya on this a year ago, or even 6 months ago, but I’m with ya fully now.
It’s an ugly fight, it’s an ugly class war, it’s been proven to be a full out blitzkreig and siege of a class war on all government provided services and progressive social action and thinking.
To continue your war analogy We The People are gonna bleed and die regardless of how any of this plays out so we MIGHT as well make them hurt as bad as we can, break up the status quo to some extent and work to primary Obama, or even defeat him in ’12 . . . we can’t win an all out war, so it’s a long term insurgency we need to sustain and there’s gonna be a lot of losses . . . but we have to make the system pay for each of our losses. Politically speaking, of course.
Oh, there’s a call to do so, all right. From zenbassoon’s diary over at Orange:
sort of like libertarian, which to most, even vaguely acquainted with the european origin of the term; libertarian means socialist.
They’re screwing up our language to the point where exchanging ideas will soon become virtually impossible!
I thought that part of the Senate bill was a provision that required the insurance companies to use 85%-90% of their receipts from premiums, etc. for patient care. The remaining 10%-15% were all that they could spend on overhead and profit. To your knowledge, am I wrong?
I do have a question, though. That is, was Sanders amendment to provide something like 20,000 new clinics to be disbursed throughout the country, retained in the Senate bill. If that provision survived the purges, this could be a very good thing, and I cannot, in good conscience, let it go by supporting killing the bill. These two provisions alone seem to me to make the bill worthy of passage as at least a start. Otherwise, I fear that not only will we not have the subject come up again for at least a generation, but it would be a huge boon to Rethugs, and reward them for deplorable behavior, even tho the behavior of Dems is not all that much better.
Well described.
Take a house of cards called private health insurance companies that are really BROKE due to consolidation and false inflation of ‘good will’ on their books thru acquirement of companies, add in the same sitch with the medical delivery complex, include that their stock was probably bought, sold, traded with phantom stock, sold short, sold short naked, and well, you have the same type of crisis and bubble bursting as our finan/banking system has.
AND, add in the reality of millions upon millions of boomers hitting 65 now and soon and switching to Medicare and costing the insurance companies revenue streams, the sitch beomes REALLY urgent financially wise for the insurance companies.
Ergo Sy, as you said, a mandate for guaranteed revenue, ENFORCED by the government thru the IRS. Something that’s NEVER been done, and crosses a constitutional line as sharply as the Supremes passing their recent ruling for corporate funding for elected officials.
If this shit don’t bring about the escalating and ever rapidly increasing potential for complete collapse of our nation I don’t know what else will (aside from trillions and more annually for war, or an attack on Iran).
Kill the bill.
We’re all on a list somewhere, you know that.
And so far, calling for civil disobedience still falls within the norms of the constitution and our civil rights.
Well, SO far. Sorta, aside from Seattle.
PERFECT analogy, good on yas.
Ann, there’s a fascinating novel accounting gimmick that just came to light called ‘repo 105′. An appropriate for the Insurance industry’s bottom line version of this will be used to game the reluctant regulatory system.
David, great comment and thanks for sharing what a lot of Pups might be feeling.
I am feeling that way.
Kill the bill.
Nice break up letter hoss!!!
WORTHY!!!
*bows*
Don’t try the veal!!!!!
;-)
My unsuscribe went in about November of ’09 . . . to moveon and a few others. I wasn’t as well writ as you are.
*G*
Heh, don’t know if you missed it but the dude’s snark was of the first class! Spot on snark you can’t BUY on a street corner.
Yep.
Snark, hoss, his comment was teh snark . . . . pure sarcasm.
I also live in CA.
Please download and sign C4D’s ballot initiave, Californians for Democracy.
You overlook the simple fact that NOT passing anything is BETTER than the Status Quo as it pushes the failed system to fail faster . . . . and there is such a swelling of public opinion nationally about why we the people are getting screwed on SO many fronts that the pressure to do SOMETHING better than what we have (or what the Senate/WH is shoving at us thru AHIP et al) is mounting daily.
There WILL be future action if we kill this bill!!! LOTS of it!!!!
Time is our ally, our friend, and the closer to November and ’12 we get, the more the pressure mounts in our favor.
That we lose it forever if it don’t pass it now is a Rahmian Meme, created and paid for and sold in media by AHIP and the corporate oligarchy, which you sound a lot like.
I just sent my money to ActBlue and Kucinich…and would be happy if you’d like to wave it around in the faces of those Democrats to whom i will NOT EVER give my money again! You can include MoveOn in the list.
Anyone purporting to support healthcare reform who said they would and is not now aggressively fighting for a public option to start with, and who isn’t publicly putting themselves on the line to protect women’s right to choose has betrayed any trust we had in them.
Hmm, nice posit . . . . I’d like to see Medicaid/Medicare open to all . . . ;-)
History shows that systems fail for the masses when the masses get nothing and the system supports only the 1%.
We have a few thousand years of history to offer on that single premise.,
Where ya been? Tell Rahm to change the talking points, that one is dated and faded.
As for the UK parliamentary system, it is called Dictatorship by Parliament, but there is the House of Lords which is a check on extreme legislation.
That line IS pure gold, but it ain’t over, we’re still breathing and standing . . . it’s awful gloomy, but it ain’t over.
*G*
Rox, will you be able to afford to pay thru the roof premiums that are mandated?
Will you be able to pay for thru the roof co pays that are gamed by insurance companies?
Will you be able to pay for thru the roof deductibles?
How soon do you think you’ll run out of your lifetime cap (that’s so low as to be used in a year or less pending one illness or injury)?
That’s the insurance you are getting told you HAVE to buy or the IRS will come after you.
Best of health to you and your personal sitch, but this bill won’t start YOUR coverage till what, ’16? ’18?
But your payments start as early as ’12 or ’13.
Hell of a deal yer behind there, for your own needs.
We keep tellin ‘em, they just won’t listen.
Yep, they should have had Palin backed up better as Grayson smeared her like a pellet ridden goose liver shot from a helicopter.
When this was added, the insurance industry was already working with hedge funds and private equity firms to find ways of moving and/or hiding funds to usurp the regulatory framework; shocking, I know.
There are a lot of other ways to massage that regulation by shifting the definition of medical-loss, etc.
That said, it also has nothing to do with what gets set as your personal deductible and co-pay schedule.
As one of the people this healthcare bill goes so far as to almost single out by name for a royal fucking over; I’d like to extend a proposal to expand medical clinics and access to them nationwide, without attaching it as a rider to a string of odious de facto fascist policies.
Because, they don’t have to be part and parcel of the same package you know.
Watching some of the president today in Ohio that was on CNN, and now reading this and I just feel total despair. He’s so convincing and who doesn’t WANT to believe? But he sounded just as smart and believable as when he was campaigning.
Oh yes-he wants an up or down vote. The American people deserve that. Well they deserve a lot more than that. How about an up or down vote on the public option? What an utter fraud he is. The one thing I actually believed about Obama was that he understood how dire the health care situation was and without fixing it this country is going third rail-also know as third world. But this bill is a sham and he’s a sham, he has zero real interest in controlling costs and giving health care to all. He had the nerve to mention he had just spoken to Kuchinich- I doubt he as ever listened to a word a real progressive has ever uttered.
And the lions are not sleeping tonight and they are both thirsty AND hongry!
Whoops, you dropped your wounded healthcare persona!
Now you are fully healed and talking like Rahm!!!!
Get new talking points, yer outed, buh by.
You’re not wrong. The problem is that there’s no cap on premiums, so they can recoup whatever they lose by charging more. And the mandates mean they get millions more customers. And to top it off, the “fraud” loophole is still in there, so they can continue to delay and deny care until you die. Honestly, this is worse than the status quo.
On the Douthat post you identify yourself as a right-winger who accepts all the Iraq Kool-Aid, yet here you are pretending to favor single-payer?????
I smell a rat. Smells real bad.
Seems like I wasted my energy dealing with you as though you might be honest. Or are you just very ecumenical?
Your time frame is too short, sir.
Nice retort there, OFG!!!!!
I’m feeling lotsa bloggy love today for some reason . . . Pups are uniting on basic essential facts, standing prog ground . . . minor differences, hell, MAJOR differences are being cast aside in the joining.
Sweet.
Thanks to all Pups for your missives, insights and for standing prog ground.
Thanks for the added details, I don’t have that recall ability and was too lazy to go look it all up again!!!
*G*
You’ve sure mislabeled and mischaracterized THIS progs beliefs about the things purport I think about.
What a load of crap your message is.
Ya know, I blame much of everything on Reagan, still.
He opened the doors, blew up the safety mechanisms, eliminated the regulations, and every other president since has done the same as best as they could in favor of the corporate oligarchy.
When did the dem’s fall? Likely, they were ALWAYS fallen.
But thanks to Reagan and since, the system is fully entrenched to encircle every and all elected officials at all levels, be it city, county, state or national offices.
Be it school boards, boards of supervisors, etc.
Not sure I answered yer question . . . . lemme know . . . but I’m with ya today, on all you’ve said.
*G*
Nah, not the call I mean . . . the call I mean is a trumpet blast (analogy) signaling that MILLIONS OF PEOPLE from disparate backgrounds, idealogies for a multitude of reasons will hit the streets in civil disobedience in support of our Constitution, our social and civil needs and for truth, justice and the american way.
Like in the 50′s/60′s/70′s.
Called my Rep. Donna Edwards today. Staffmember said she was undecided as new add-ons keep appearing everyday. I said to her: “stick with Dennis”.
This process is so nerve wracking.
The city halls of America will meet and, under threat of losing their corporate connections, grant the millions of protesters a “free speech zone” the size of a postage stamp. That’s when chaos will erupt.
I already have, and more besides. I haven’t given up hope on changing things in this state. But do you disagree with my assessment of the political landscape?
The House of Lords has managed to repackage itself as a check on extreme legislation, but its actual powers are very limited: the PM can add (technically, can make the monarch add) as many new lords as are necessary to pass legislation. Would that our upper house were as toothless.
If you really meant “systems fail for the masses when the masses get nothing,” then yes, that seems self-evident. If you meant to write that political systems fail when the masses get nothing, then no, I don’t think history shows anything of the sort. What’s your specfic evidence? (And if you’re really arguing for bloody revolution, you need to think about who has all the big guns.)
Show me on the doll where Rahm touched you.
I know, funny huh?
The brazen idiocy of the American Liberal caricature; make willful disarmament a central plank of the platform (for no conceivable logical reason) all while the opposition is filling its ranks with authoritarian marksmen.
Kind of remarkable really.
Dennis Kucinich’s petition
http://healthcare.kucinich.us/petition/
Alan Grayson’s bill
http://salsa.mydccc.org/o/30019/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=17
Watch the Introduction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy2Y5Uevisk
Watch the explanation of the Bad Obama bill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfuFVm6QdPU
WHITE RIBBON MARCH
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=349518434484&ref=mf
WINDOW TREATMENT
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=293263660251&index=1
Nah, there’s nothing good–the Republicans are simply unable to accept anything proposed by Democrats. If the Democrats said the sun rose in the east, the Republicans would swear it was the west and always had been.
Last I heard it’s not a lifetime cap–it’s a yearly cap. Lifetime caps were deemed too cruel, but with the yearly cap, you can for example have to stop your chemotherapy for a couple of months until the year changes on the calendar or pay the exorbitant cost of the drugs yourself. Given a choice of caps, I’d go for lifetime–you might get a fighting chance at least once.
What’s your preference? I’m too old for rap; went thru a phase of Porter Wagner, Conway Twitty twangy country but they don’t do that anymore. What’s Clapton doing these days or maybe some Stevie Ray blues.
If Jane could sneak “blowjob” into one of her interviews, it would be golden!!
Oh, Larue, thank you SO much!!!
This, and the constant mangling of “it’s” and “its,” make this former English teacher crazy!!!!
Damn right. Bloody and ugly. If the party stands for nothing it shouldn’t be left standing. The Gopers are a hateful bunch of of Visigoths but I will hand them this they stand for something, “the Plutocracy” without hesitation and without doubt. They are bought and they are open about it. The Dems. are a pathetic rabble at this pt. The only thing in common most of them have is a deep desire for power, nothing more. If that desire means taking bucket loads of Corp. cash so be it. However, they don’t deserve to be supported if that’s how its going to be. I won’t support people that take my cash and my vote and then do nothing but stick to me day and night and then make up BS excuses and try to convince me someday I’ll get around to fixing it. ENOUGH already with this nonsense.
Thas is the most naive bit of crap I have ever seen from an adult!!! [May assume a fact not in evidence.]
Are you expecting the Easter Bunny to bring you a fact-based answer to the question you were presented with?
corporate “conserva-Dems”
(IF you call, “turning America back into a poor, wage-slavery, segregation & 1920s lynch-mob terrorized & impoverished nation” “conservative”)
SHOULD be called “YELLOW-DOG Democrats.”
The term originated with Segregationist Deep South Democrats, who for generations said “I would rather lie down with a YELLOW DOG WITH FLEAS, than vote Republican”
(Republicans being the _radical reform party_ of President Lincoln when he took on the Southern slave-owning autocracy, which had dominated the U.S. presidency with 12 of first 15 U.S. presidents being slave-owners.)
Over the years, the RELENTLESSLY WHITE-WASHING (of Right-Wing agenda) corporate media started calling “YELLOW DOG Democrats” BLUE-DOG Democrats, because it sounded colorful and poetic, also applied to Northern Conserva-Dems, and slightly masked the original origin of the term….
I was asked to explain how the healthcare reforms would make the current delivery system sustainable. I replied that I didn’t think they would. It’s really pretty straightforward if you read for comprehension.
Can’t drink much liquor anymore, liver cancer is my next stop, so I do pills.
Darlin’ I wish I shared your optimism but after nearly 6 decades on this planet I am not hopeful. They’ve taken our jobs, our health, our savings, our hopes and dreams, poisoned our food supply, left our children uneducated and have even stolen elections. They have all the money, power, influence and all the toys. I’ve been sodomized by The Man so many times, I don’t have to buy toilet paper anymore.
To quote you:
Explain, please.
You “believe”??? Well I’ll be laying a bet of my life’s savings on that one!!
.and now the chorus…
“but the ignorant don’t knooooww……
the stupid can’t learn…………
AND THE REST …. JUST DON’T GIVE A FUCK!!!!
Damn, now I can’t get that chorus line out of my head.
“but the ignorant don’t knoooooowwwww….
the stupid can’t learn……..
AND THE REST….. JUST DON’T GIVE A FUCK!!!!
lol. You’re gonna have a complete song before this thread is through girl!!!!
And on a more serious not, keep on sharing those comments. I love reading me some OHJ. *g*
Tell MoveOn to shove off….
The MoveOn people are Despicable Humam Trash!!!!
It expands Medicaid so that millions of poor people gain coverage. I think it does lots of other good things, but there are arguments to be made on both sides about much of that. People who calls themselves progressives, though, should think that expanding Medicaid makes things much better. If they had to bundle the Medicaid expansion into a bill that allowed Republicans to spit in my coffee for ten years, I’d still think it was a net plus.
It’s not an article of faith, it’s a prediction. You see, real progressives–the kind who don’t retreat into cynicism or fantasies about how they’ll really make the insurance companies cry next time–have made it clear all along that this bill is only a first step. Those people are energized by the possibility of passing this bill, and looking forward to doing more.
Now a question for you: given that you find yourself on the other side of the argument from Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, the Progressive Caucus, the unions, Move-on, and just about all of left-Blogistan, is just possible that you might be wrong about the value of this bill? Just mull it over.
“The one thing I actually believed about Obama was that he understood how dire the health care situation was and without fixing it this country is going third rail-also know as third world,”
Why? Obama was pushed into the universal health care debate by his primary opponents. It was hardly his signature issue. Indeed, process was his signature issue. If you read the recent expose on David Axelrod, he underscores the administrations emphasis on process:
And…
If Axelrod is a reflection of Obama’s philosophy, and I think he is, he’s much more interested in process(i.e. the post-partisan “shtick”) than policy. I thought Obama made that abundantly clear in the election.
Way late to this thread, but has anyone considered that all this yea, nay is a bunch of hogwash. What’s to stop a couple of repug’s who are retiring and have nothing to lose since they’re most likely going to a lobbist gig, from voting yea to pass this turd! I’ll bet it’s pretty likely if they need a couple of votes.
I unsubscribed today – blaming kucinich when holy joe walked? I told them they belong in the veal pen.
rmm.
could you please do another call to arms, later today, for the grassroots to call progressives in congress and demand they hew to their pledge to only vote yes if there is a public option. an insurance bill without one isn’t reform.
i’ve migrated over form dkos (out of disgust) and saw this too late. i’m sure i’m not the only one.
i wrote to moveon and told them i was disgusted. the question in the poll was misleading in that it assumed the drive for a public option was dead. a differently worded question would have yielded another result. by pressuring dems to pass the bill now AS IS undercuts the progressive caucus credibility next time they try to take a stand on principle.
what i want to know is how much pressure they got from the white house to go down this track.
Not to be maudlin, but…HUG.