Even if the votes are there without them, I’m ready to whip the progressive caucus [Edited by moderator. Let's not go that path].

Oh please “You could have answered with two words, “public option.””

You could have answered it “Medicare for All”, and then had to be pushed back for the umpteenth time to “Single Payer”.

Mod: I promise I don’t actually own a real whip.

[Mod Note: Understood. But even as snark, it's not a path we really want to move down]

Progressive Democrats with spines?!?!?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Thanks Jon, I needed a good laugh.

Let that be a lesson for the Representatives who REPLACE them in Nov.!

[Edited by moderator. Let's not go that path].

I’m wavering on this one. What do I get in exchange for not going that path?

I’m sure the Progressive Caucus will say it’s asynchronous warfare: they want a bill and the conservatives don’t. No one cares what the progressives want because they should be happy to get anything. There’s some truth to this, but it’s also wrong: they still have plenty of leverage by threatening to vote against the President’s top domestic priority.

It’s no secret what’s wrong with this bill: (1) taxes on health care plans, prescription drugs and medical devices; and (2) the individual mandate. They won’t “fix” it because as Jane says, “this is the bill Obama wanted.” The President practically wrote this bill in the Senate Finance Committee and here we have it, warts and all.

How can you trust health care “reform” when the two biggest pro-consumer ideas – the public option and drug reimportation – are fanatically kept out of the bill? If we were dealing with honest people concerned about Americans’ health care, those provisions would be in there. That they’re not speaks volumes about the trustworthiness of the health care “reform” project.

LOL! How about a pony?

I mean seriously, what’s with Obama? If the bill were popular, he wouldn’t have to be offering ponies for votes. His threats would carry a lot more weight. As it is, he’s turned the full weight of the veal pen (MoveOn, et. al.), the party establishment and liberal bloggers on the undecideds.

Here’s a thought: why not make the bill better, and more popular? Because everything that makes the bill popular would break the corrupt bargains he’s made with the lobbyists?

You mean the Progressive “coat hanger” caucus don’t you?

The world has turned completely upside down.

So let’s name names. Who are the progressives who make promises, signed pledges, took contributions from people who wanted real health care reform, and then caved without a fight?

Every last one of them should be named as often as possible so we know who not to ever trust again.

Weiner? Grayson? Woolsey?

AFAIK, all but DK.

Grayson ?

When did he become a progressive:he is using the Obama playbook.Say you are for something progressive and then vote for something that is written by lobbyist & endorsed by the Corporations.

Don’t get suckered folks.

Change I can bereave in.

And yet Grayson made out like a bandit claiming to be a leader on health care reform, using the issue to collect contributions for himself while doing nothing for the people who trusted him.

Maybe Grayson’s face along with all the others who are PINOs should be displayed at FDL in photos that look like mug shots.

Zing!

and face the possibility of being primaried by the omnipotent Kos?

you fool!

But, that is assuming that the progressive caucus actually wanted the PO and was not just giving lip service to the voters. Perhaps, all they really wanted was to placate their voters and still scoop in all that corporate cash. They don’t seem to have any real convictions in the end!

Well, we can “hope” they “change” this steaming pile of crap. “Yes we can” do better!

Meanwhile, Biden has sent out a fundraising mailer on behalf of the DSCC with the banner title “WE MUST ACT NOW TO STOP THE GOP…”

Who the fuck is going to stop the Democratic Party from screwing up one reform after another and screwing over the American people? I’m sure as hell not going to enable them by sending them money.

Progressive Caucus, This Could Have Been You

Whew! I’ll bet they’re relieved they avoided that terrifying possibility!

Let this be a lesson in using your power as a legislator, the next time you wonder whether to vote yes or no to get what you demand

For many of them, the failure to take stand means there won’t be a next time.

Citizen BMcGarth:

You have Grayson pegged, Citizen, but he’s worse than a whimpy “progressive” he’s a real pseudo libertarian wingnut with a brain. He’s dangerous.

That could have been you, Congressional Progressive Caucus. If a significant block of you had held firm on your promise to withhold support from any health care reform bill without a public option, Obama would be calling you in to ask what you needed in the bill in order to support it. You could have answered with two words, “public option.”

Y’know, Obama hasn’t exactly been a prince in keeping his promises. What’s to prevent these guys from going back on theirs [to the extent they've "promised" to vote for the bill]?

They’ve apparently broken their promises to us; why not be consistent & break any they might have made to Obama?

Why don’t they all just vote “present,” like a certain someone we know.

Maybe they could then “fix it later.”

Let’s not forget that Dennis Kucinich stood on principle and did what’s right.

Thank him and show the insider sellouts that we stand by those who stand by us.

Click here to Stand up for Fire Dog Rep. Kucinich. Over 575 people have already contributed more than $10,000 this afternoon.

The President practically wrote this bill in the Senate Finance Committee and here we have it, warts and all.

It’s mostly a great big wart, with a teeny tiny bill attached.

Or rather, as a riff on “all hat, no cattle,” — “all wart, no bill.”

So is Kucinich getting a meeting?

Democratic Congress

Could not frame a winning issue.
Would not stand on principle.
Took the path of least resistance.
KowTow to Conservatives.
Appeal to Conservatives at the expense of their own base.
Bury Head in Sand.

See Ya.
Epic Mid-Term Failure Coming Soon.
Welocme Home, Assholes.

They should dissolve the progressive caucus and form a small bloc of diehards who are willing to go to the mat.

As for Grayson, he’s a first termer who may need party support to defend his seat so I’m cutting him a little slack.

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Firepup Freedom Fighters:

ObamaRahma want to get “health insurance reform” at the expense of progressive Democrats in the House of Representatives…if we can somehow kill the God damned thing the Democrats will still lose the House of Representatives but the balance of the elected Democrats in the caucus will be a whole lot less conservative than their majority is right now!! So the progressive activists out here in the trenches need to coordinate thru places like FDL to hold on to the real Democrats in solid Blue districts and dump the Blue Dogs…if ObamaRahma don’t have enough Blue Dogs they won’t be able to triangulate with anyone ‘cuz you know the fuckin’ fascist Republicans are not gunna be seen anywhere near Obama.

Howard Dean is still out here and he doesn’t have the taint of ObamaRahma…let’s suffer through this November fightin’ to cleanse the party and get Dean back in charge of the DNC!

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, SAME FIGHT JUST NEW TARGETS!!

No slack. Grayson took center stage. He used the issue to raise money from average Americans who trusted him.

If he wants to get in bed with sellout leadership, let him take money from them and stop providing cover for them by appearing on the teevee day after day.

Let’s not forget that he made his debut by blaming Republicans, as if it wasn’t the Democratic Party that was screwing up health care reform.

The Progressive Caucus appears very much to be a joke. They seem to simply roll over and follow whatever instructions arrive for them from outside of their caucus. The best gauge of how they are going to go on whatever issue is read by looking at what their worst opponents want in the issue; the odds are good the that the Progressive Caucus will act in such a way as to facilitate to the utmost their worst opponents getting what they want.

In fairness, it’s the Patients’ Bill of Rights with a corporate giveaway attached. Like any good surgeon, they should excise the cancer to give the patient a chance of survival.

Cleanse The Party of Blue Dogs and “business friendly” “New Democrats” like Suzanne Kosmas and Obama.

You could have answered with two words, “public option.”

Oh come on Jon. You never really thought these jokers considered pushing for the PO, did you?
Every single one of them got a visit from a Cartel lobbyist and they were told with an ivory smile that they must not let the PO get out of the starting gate or millions of $ would go to some Repub or Dem challenger and they would be defeated.

This game has been rigged from start to finish and I wish I hadn’t wasted my time trying to influence or involve myself in it. The oligarchy gets what the oligarchy wants. Call me when the people have had enough. We seem to be a long way from that.

Lynn Woolsey was on KO with Lawrence last week…

And I completely agree with Jane… that woman has to go.

I don’t know if she was drunk or if she has a medical condition requiring medication… but she was disgusting.

She kept repeating “31 million more people will be insured” and “as soon as it’s passed the very next bill will be the PO”… she repeated both statements several times.

I’d like to take bets on if “the very next bill will be the PO bill”….

And the she had the gall to say “the American people are not stupid”… apropos of nothing… which I think was a Freudian slip meaning she was hoping the American people were stupid enough to believe her…

It was truly unbelievable. This is the head of the alleged PCCC?

Sure enough. I just got another fundraiser email from Grayson claiming to be a leader on health care reform and to use it to raise money for himself.

It’s no surprise that insurance companies are making billions of dollars in profits. We have been virtually powerless to combat their greedy maneuvers.

Yup. Grayson’s proudly going to vote in favor of this pos bill.

This is a good first step toward meaningful health care reform. I will support any action that saves money and saves lives.

It’s not a good first step toward real reform, asshole. We need long-term solutions rather than band aids.

It is my true honor to serve you.

A voice in Grayson’s head must be telling him that words like “honor” and “service” can be made to mean something if they’re repeated over and over again.

If dogs (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/03/dog-saves-other-injured-d_n_148238.html) and elephants (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/02/assignment_america/main4696340.shtml) can figure it out, why can we?

Weiner? Grayson?

The number 3 and 2 Firedogs of 2010

After a week of voting that saw over 110,000 votes cast, the winners of the FDL 2010 Fire Dogs Contest are:

First Place: Dennis Kucinich, 24,967 votes
Second Place: Alan Grayson, 17,296 votes
Third Place: Anthony Weiner, 13,160 votes

And of course, Grayson decided to teach Sarah Palin some politics.

“I look forward to an honest debate with Governor Palin on the issues, in the unlikely event that she ever learns anything about them,” Grayson said. His campaign added that “[s]cientists are studying Sarah Palin’s travel between Alaska and Florida carefully. They hope to learn more about the flight patterns of that elusive migratory species, the wild Alaskan dingbat.”

-

If Weiner and Grayson vote for a bill with no PO they need to instantly lose “firedog” status.

I’ve been saying this for weeks. I really don’t understand all the people here who faun all over Grayson. He’s nothing but talk, nothing at all.

Kosmas took out Tom Feeney and Grayson took out Ric Keller. Meany Feeney and Jonah Goldberg Keller were really bad stinky Republicans.

Milquetoasty Kosmas (Bill Nelson = Role Model) will lose to a stinky Rethug Dorothy Hukill. Grayson will keep his seat because he made a good show of fighting for the people.

Yeah but were the progressive caucas and we are so used to swallowing shit that we have gotten fond of the taste. The republicans and the corporate demorats know that deep down inside we dont have a spine for conflict and will always settle for less than bcz that is just who we are. We say we oppose the war but we always vote for it when it counts bcz we dont want to appear weak. We say we want a public option and some us even say we want a single payor but we will vote for a plan that has neither. We love to get on the ED show and talk the talk, but when it comes down to it we always have and always will back down and do what we are told. Remember, it was our progressive leader Nancy Pelosi that declared G Bush’s war crimes off limits. The republicans tried to run Clinton out of town on a rail for having oral sex and our leader protects Bush’s war crimes.

What Progressive caucus? So you think instead of supporting the mess that came about because of politicians’ refusal to demand a public option, that killing the bill is the way to get it? No, it doesn’t work that way. This is it. Support it or it fails.

All “progressives” and John Boehner agree: there is bipartisan opposition to this bill. I watched for a year and a half these wingnuts scream, threaten, wish failure on America and everything imagineable- even refuse to support the troops- saying no to everything. But now you join up with these very people united to shoot down this bill. Cry and whine… about what though? You don’t really want a public option, you only want to whine that it isn’t there now because whining is easy. It’s easy to cry about something you know you’re not getting than to make the effort and put the pressure up to get it AT A TIME WHEN IT COULD HAVE REALISTICALLY HAPPENED. Which was LAST AUGUST. Not at the 11th hour, when the game is almost over.

So Grayson thinks that playing a leader on teevee is more important politically than providing real leadership.

Meanwhile, the choice for the American people boils down to Republican dingbats, sellouts and assholes or Democratic dingbats, sellouts and assholes.

Tough choice.

I keep forgetting about drug reimportation, thanks for the reminder . . . .

And thanks Jon, what folly the Prog Caucas hath wrought!!!

At THIS point, they should call the WH, demand an audience, and level the boom on Obama for both a VIBRANT PO that starts IMMEDIATELY and for drug reimportation that starts immediately and for an end to 7 year patents. 3 max, and screw you PhARMA!!!!

I’m started to feel a bit like Busted from Ornery Bastard, I’m in a foul mood and it ain’t goin away this week.

Bastids, all of them. *spits*

Lighten up. Stress is a killer.

Apparently he did. I heard he was on AF1 today. I suspect it wasn’t a fun meeting.

I think they think progressive don’t mean what we thought they thought it meant when they signed on that dotted line.

I too, and incredible confused by it all . . . . it all points CLEARLY however, to two simple figures to single out.

1) Nancy Pelosi
2) The Progressive Caucas

FDL and us progs gonna have to figure where we got punked and DO something about it.

Every step is a learning step it seems . . . I understand that, even for us DFH’s who knew it was all a crooked game in the 60′s.

How I forgot what I knew in the 60′s and 70′s as a phreakin teenager is beyond me, but I knew then they were ALL crooks and corporations were evil.

I can’t believe the progressive movement continues to disregard history (labor movement! Eugene Debs!) from pre 1900 thru the 50′s/60′s and what WORKED (bodies in the streets, in Selma, in DC, pick your topic be it civil rights, women’s rights, antiwar) in the times and what didn’t work.

And that corps and politicians are bought and sold to do their own bidding and fill their own needs.

It’s always been class war, it still is.

Why do progressives not ‘get this’, ‘recall this’ and act on what history has provided that’s WORKED??????

Arghhh.

*stiflesinappropriatecomments*

‘K, better now, some Merlot helped. ;-)

If the rethugs were in power this is the bill they would want more or less. So you advocate giving it them.

See, now that’s what I’m now talkin ’bout . . . it’s come to this, we were pawned, played and suckered.

No more, and END to it.

Grrr . . . lingering vestiges of discontented malcontency . . . . (is that a word?)

Obviously they (most in the caucus) are not really progressives.

Black suits and veils today, as the reality sinks in, it’s OUR funeral!!!!!!

No they don’t, and I think the proof is plain to see anymore about their whole charade, and Pelosi’s.

We got punked, us progs, bad.

Why would they do ANY of that? Given they all get fully get DCCC funding, re-election help, and seat at the table with the big diapered boys and girls?

THERE’S a grand Irish sense of humor!!!!

*G*

I hope you will consider that Grayson has already shown enough to fulfill Greenwald’s ‘Rotating Villain’ descrip.

He’s a faux prog, all the way.

I see your scenario as not only the ONLY one left for progs, but a good one.

Clean house, accept we’ve been punked, make those who punked pay for it, keep pressure on till November, and thru ’12 with all and anything we have . . . . the fighting never ends in class wars.

And if we don’t keep fighting our blood and guts will still spill into the coffers of the 1% corp oligarchy anyways.

Might as well make that spillage assume some value to us, ya think . . . . .

Yeah, I for one lost all faith in the process when I saw how the White House dealt with drug reimportation. They held up the Senate bill so they could lobby against lowering drug costs for all Americans. In exchange, they promised to spend more money we don’t have to eliminate the donut hole for Medicare beneficiaries.

First of all, why is that even the choice we should be making? Why not work to lower drug costs for all Americans *and* improve Medicare drug coverage at the same time? More importantly, how can you trust people who lobby against legislation that’s 100% certain to save consumers at least $100 billion over the next decade? How can you trust people to “fix” anything after lobbying against legislation they previously voted for?

The Democrats said they were for drug reimportation for 12 years then fail to pass it when they have the chance. Why should we believe they’re really for universal health care when they aren’t doing that now? You can’t trust liars with life and death issues… that’s why Americans are turning away from this bill. No one trusts these people, with good reason.

Yes, he got one on Air Force One.

“There have been some mistakes made, we acknowledge that, and now we are prepared to move forward with greater conviction and deliberation for the benefit of the masses.”

Let’s see who comes forward with THAT line . . . .

The real question becomes what is the best way to fix the very broken Democratic party. Should we simply withhold any and all support for all incumbents, support primary challengers wherever we can or do we actively work for the defeat of the corrupt Dem incumbents by running a third party when we can or even supporting the rethug? It is clear the only thing that can teach them to be progressive is if there are real repercussions for this betrayal.

Your first sentence is perfectly true and spot on.

Your finish is unneeded, unwarranted and of no value.

We’re all in the same foxhole, the muzzles should point outside.

Just because you can say “I told you so” is no reason to proceed to do so, it cheapens the value you earned.

What I want to know is, what Progressive Caucus? Far as I can tell, there’s Dennic Kucinich on one side, a core group of dedicated Conservadems on the other side and a mass of quivering jello in between.

Progressive caucus?

Oh, puhleeze. Ain’t no such animal. Might as well spend your time hunting for the fictional sasqwatch.

Oh for cryin out loud WE ain’t effing voting on that shit, THEY are, they hold the blame, we elected and voted for them based on what they told us what they would do.

We never caved, bowed, or ran or sucked up . . . your message sucks.

BTW: They had an opportunity to see the writing on the wall with the Brown debacle in MA but they still choose to follow their corporate masters. I had hope they would hear the warning but they are deaf.

Wow, that’s a phreakin mess to decipher . . .

Nope.

Want some Merlot?

*Shoves box and 32 oz leaden goblet his way*

Same one I’m usin . . ;-)

Norske up above had what I think is a good template to start from.

Why should we they’ve proven to us time and time again they can’t be trusted to keep their word, because they have none. These are a shameless bunch of lying scheming shit bags and I’m done supporting their BS. Let the real fascist rule who cares, at least they don’t even bother saying they give a shit. The Dems. are infuriating with their endless excuses and endless betrayals. We’re all acting like enablers to a bunch of drunks or drug addicts by supporting them. I’m finished doing it, no more.

I hate to bring this up, but after this passes, there is no way it will be repealed. The Republicans are threatening to run on its repeal, but what part are they going to repeal? Will they actually want to help union workers and other workers and eliminate the excise tax? Or will they favor increasing money to Medicare? Sorry to sound so pessimistic.

Why bother with appeals when the Veal Pen is so effective?

So of course they are replying public option, single-payer, Medicare for all who dare. I really hate his lying package of health care. Vote no and embarrass the crap out of him for shitty legislation.

Go Dennis.

Ditto- the worst kind of sleaze. Black hearts and evil deeds against us. Screw them any possible way in the future.

There is no way it will be repealed–except if a GOPer takes over as Pres. and they have the two Houses again. Then, they will use reconciliation to repeal, since reconciliation was used to put it in.

Certainly, the mandate would be the first place to start with repeal, should there be such.

But, there won’t.

It will pass, you won’t say a thing about it. Sure you want the single payer. Me too. But, you won’t lift a finger once it is passed.

Certainly, there is no big wave that anyone can detect on a public level for NOT passing it because of mandates and no single payer. All relatively quiet on the progressive front. Jane doing a few things, but it has not reached the level where any mass media outlet is covering it. Which means it nearly doesn’t exist.

Same for the Tea Party. They aren’t doing anything from their side either.

You will just need to make the best of it and live with a dead single payer dream.

With pre-existing conditions and the uninsured covered, the two big public buttons, there will be no motivation to do anything further on it from the public. None.

I’m glad I’m not a Democrat. I could not bear the shame.

The public option will never pass. Hospitals don’t want it because they won’t be able to make a profit.

I finally found out today why the progressives must pass this pile of —- HCR bill: the plight of Natoma Cannfield. As Michael Moore pointed out, however, this bill will not lower the cost of her health insurance, which she can’t afford now. As I understand it, it will rise more slowly because her health care will be paid by everyone , since the insurers are only allowed to raise everybody’s rates instead of just Natoma’s. Oh, yeah, pre-conditions won’t be covered for 4 years anyway. Maybe Natoma can survive from her battle with Lukemia over that span of time. But, you know what? If she dies in the interim I think I will hang the fault on Obama and all his progressive buddies, who whould rather be good Democrats instead of good legislators.

That’ the real world, man!

Yeah, that was truly horrible. Natoma is in a terrible situation, a plight I wouldn’t wish on anyone. But it’s absolutely galling for Obama to suggest his health care plan would do anything to help her when it demonstrably won’t. Natoma couldn’t afford her health insurance before she became ill and she probably still wouldn’t be able to afford it after the bill’s passed. In any event, she’d have to wait four years to be covered through the exchanges *if* she could afford the insurance there.

In the meantime, Obama noted that Natoma is still being treated with aggressive chemotherapy. Maybe she won’t be able to afford her bill at the end of the day, but she’s still being treated. If the Democrats had passed Obama’s health care bill last year exactly nothing about Natoma’s situation would be any different today.

If we’re concerned about people like Natoma, why don’t the Democrats pass a basic, affordable comprehensive health care plan with strong catastrophic coverage. Something like a.. uh, what’s it called… a public option?

I’ll say it once again – don’t give these people money for any reason. Progressive money should be used strictly for primary challengers. When progressives reach the point where they can finance a legitimate primary challenger for any race in the country, candidates will crawl out of the woodwork and the occupants of those seats will fear us and be very careful about what they do. Sort of like the Tea Party’s relationship with the GOP.

Stop working for and giving money to elected politicians who betray their constituents for the sake of party politics or from undue influence by lobbyists.

That could very simply be fixed by increasing reimbursement rates. Pay for it? Yeah, taxes on the rich. The fixes are actually quite simple, but politically impossible in the present environment.