Thank you for staying relatively sane throughout all this. I couldn’t possibly feel more alienated these days from the politics and beliefs I’ve followed for my entire life, forty-four years of voting for Democrats included. The abandonment of the last shreds of principle in order to chase corporate campaign donations is the absolute last straw. If this passes, true reform will be dead for generations. That the Villagers don’t realize what they are doing is simply stupefying.

The good news is that it gives me the needed motivation to leave the reservation forever. I’m going to write, take care of my wife and the damn cat, raise chickens, plant beans, and get on with living any way I can. To hell with this stinking vale of tears, to hell with gradualism, and to hell with the Democrats.

Lastly, I can’t be the only one who feels this way. That we are not believed by the powers that be is monumentally insulting, but I’ll get over that because I’m free…

It is obvious this sham bill will pass with or without Kucinich.

The only way to get their attention if it does:

1) Cancel your health insurance if you have it

2) Refuse to buy insurance under the Mandate

It’s the only way now.

Die Bill! Die! Die! Die!

Stamping on Dennis is a desperate move by desperate people.

It makes these losers look like nasty losers because they won’t face Dennis’ well founded objections.

What are we supposed to say to those progressive Congresscritters who pledged to vote against #hcr that omits Public Option? “Never mind?” I don’t think so — this week was the point of the pledge, not last summer when the money rolled in.

What are we supposed to say to those progressive Congresscritters who pledged to vote against #hcr that omits Public Option?

“Good luck in the private sector”?

The reconciliation bill is up at the House:
http://budget.house.gov/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=1751

Is this the real and final version?

Heh. I typed on an earlier thread that O’s support could be a liability. Little did I know it already was.

And how long will they have to keep the vote open to coerce the Ds?

Obama: The insurance companies have been treating you like shit for years. How would you like us Democrats to fix that for you by forcing more of you to buy their crappy products? That’ll teach ‘em.

The best thing that could happen to us is this bill passing and the dems losing a lot of seats bcz of it. Yes, I know that the repubs will get their seats but they wont stay long either bcz face it they dont have any ideas either. If we can get enough corporate dems out of office we may have a chance of turning the party around by electing progressive dems to run against republicans instead of incumbent dems. Short term pain for long term gain. Purging the democratic party is a step in the right direction and thx to Obama that purging is right around the corner.

How would you like us Democrats to fix that for you by forcing more of you to buy their crappy products and using IRS as an enforcment tool if you don’t?

Suggested edit.

A meaningless shell to satisfy rule requirements. It will be completely overwritten by an “amendment” which will be the real bill.

That’s not the first time that’s happened for you. Don’t ever get rid of your Magic 8 Ball.

Right on. Once the Republicans return to power (Democrats currently in power seem intent on making sure that it happens sooner rather than later), progressives will have to resist taking easy shots at the Republicans’ stupidity and focus like a laser on using the time to clean up the Democratic Party.

The President clearly doesn’t care about Democratic House members, their political futures, or what they’re hearing from their constituents…so why should they care about him?

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

I have donated to Brother Kucinich and have taken my name off of MoveOn and the Obama for America mailing lists but I am looking for leadership, Sister Hamsher and those of us left in the activist community need to know what the plans are for coalitions among what remains of the progressive blogoshere. What groups remain, Sister Hamsher, and what efforts are bein’ made to leverage off each other so FDL and those like us can remain standing in the Democratic Party after they lose our majority in the House this November.

We must do what wasn’t done in 1994 and that is organize the elected progressives in the party that survive this election so that the White House will have no where to go in 2011 except back to the base.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, A BATTLE IS NOT THE WAR!!

I’d say the best thing that could happen is this bill failing, and the Democrats still losing lots of seats, because they’ve been exposed as corporatists anyway.

That said, I agree with the rest of your statement.

:-) Strategic, rather than tactical voting. Somebody has been reading their Roger Myerson.

Well, this is certainly a lot to sort out, but the fact still remains that the current bill is completely fashioned under the poverty-charity paradigm which does not really make it a right, but more like something the inferior poor will have to thank the rich for providing their worthless asses.

They will thank them by allowing the government to have complete privy to their every finance and question their living arrangements and who has money, and who should have money, and on and on and on. It’s like welfare and that means you will be subject to oversight by the Republican party whims and you will be officially labeled as someone taking an entitlement on a regular basis. This whole poverty/charity paradigm stinks.

The Elite have no right to a monopoly nor should they have ever had one. They also have no right to be in the business of health care because their BIzzNizz decisions have killed and crippled millions and destroyed lives across the nation. These businesses have proven that their thinking is destructive and dangerous. Why are we giving them billions?

Single payer is the only answer.

Citizen robbep:

No Citizen, the best thing will be for this bill to fail and the Democrats loose the House this fall. If this bill passes and the Democrats loose the House, many progressives will go out with the Blue Dogs. However, if enough progressive Democrats hold firm, the only folks in the Democratic Party to loose will be the “centerists” and the Blue Dogs. The progressive base of the party will NOT be demoralized if this bill fails but will be demoralized if it passes.

It was asked what Obama would do if the “HCR bill” failed.

Go adventuring abroad? Bomb Iran?

You are right, it is the poverty-charity paradigm, it sucks and it’s mostly an excuse to steal 99 cents on every dollar of help provided.

The “elected progressives” just folded, Norske — they’re not going to do anything.

Interestingly, Jim Renacci(R) is embarrassed to say in the tv ad that he’s running as a Republican. Probably not embarrassed – as Republicans have no such sense. He apparently believes it will hurt his cred with Ohio voters.

He does call Obama’s Health Care Plan a “takeover” implying, of course, that O-care is a “big gubmint takeover”. He says something else about big gubmint – which means that Jim Renacci is a genuine asshole.

Obama’s Health care bill is bad, but not because it is a big gubmint takeover. I wish it were a “gubmint takeover” like Medicare or the VA.
It is, of course, a gift to AHIP and nothing more. it is the Republican “Health care plan” of the nineties.

I won’t buy insurance under this abominable bill. Apart from the fact that it is going to be hugely expensive for me to do so, there is a principle involved. I’ve always been a progressive, a very left leaning progressive but there is a strong libertarian streak in me and I will not willingly help to reward the health insurance industry for their lying, conniving money spreading ways that have undermined any chance of meaningful reform. Arrest me.

In order to save the Democratic Party it will first have to be destroyed.

May I suggest that FDL launch a “Corporatist in Sheep’s Clothing” award in honor of the Democratic Party having so royal screwed up health care reform?

Which so-called progressive deserves the title of “Corporatist in Sheep’s Clothing” most?

Citizen Hamsher:

The vote hasn’t been cast yet, Sister Jane, and that’s why I’m askin’ what FDL is doin’ ta coalesce with other progressives to be a force to support progressive candidates in November IN the Democratic Party. Are you tryin’ ta get us marginalized to the point that we get forced out of the party? We hafta stay inside the Democratic Party and keep enough “safe” Democrats and real progressives in the House so that ObamaRahma have no one to triangulate with in 2011.

I heard someone on the radio today say that Mr. Bipartisans health insurance bill falls far short of what was proposed by Truman, Clinton and even Nixon. This country isn’t moving forward, it’s moving backwards.

They’re destroying themselves. Once they’re out of power, progressives will have to make DINOs the enemy rather than the assclown Republicans. It’ll take some serious discipline to resist the urge to get rid of the Republicans at all costs (we now see that the cost is electing DINOs).

HERE HERE!! About time someone catches on!

Cancel your HI policies! UNLESS YOU ARE SICK!!!

Let’s bankrupt us some HI companies!

BTW, pull all your money out of the TBTF banks and put it in a credit union. Even if you only have a 3rd cousin who is a member of a CU, you can qualify to join one. ;-)

Take back our government by using our ‘free-market’ power!

Which so-called progressive deserves the title of “Corporatist in Sheep’s Clothing” most?

Lynn Woolsey

Citizen Hamsher:

I am concerned that we haven’t learned from 1994. If we leave the Democratic Party then we desert our fellow citizens and Rahm’s master plan succeeds. What needs to happen is for the healthcare bill to fail and the progressive activists mobilize in the fall to hang that failure around ObamaRahma’s neck. The Democrats are gunna lose the House but it’s important HOW the Democrats lose the House…if they lose the House because the healthcare bill fails then the Democratic minority in the House will be a lot less “conservative” than the Democratic majority is in this congress.

HERE HERE!! About time someone catches on!

Just to be clear, the expression is “hear, hear”, (as in hear what he/she/they said) and I’ve always felt that way about mandates to buy products from a private company. It can be argued that driving is a privilege but I refuse to be forced to help support these criminals just because I’m alive.

This won’t work when the insurers are under permanent Federal subsidy.

Too late — I reregistered with the Green Party some time ago.

No kidding. And the political organizations I thought supported progressive and truly liberal ideals, folded with them. It’s truly the end when even grassroots organizations don’t listen to the grassroots. So now what? Mr. Corporation has indeed won, so what’s next on the agenda? Obviously electing progressives has just been shown to do absolutely nothing.

That the Villagers don’t realize what they are doing is simply stupefying.

Oh, I think they know exactly what they are doing. And I share your disenchantment.

I supported a mandate when there was supposed to be a public option to choose, because I think that everyone being insured is the best and overall the cheapest way to handle this issue, but to mandate that people buy overpriced insurance from private companies is beyond what I can tolerate. I do buy this insurance because my personal circumstances dictate that I must, but I know it will be unaffordable for many even with “subsidies”.

It’s a crystal ball.

just because I’m alive

Yes, and that is a pre-existing condition…./s

Screw 1994. Screw the DNC, the RNC, the Green Party, the Libertarians and let’s get somebody up there in this world that will just speak to the daunting problems facing the ordinary citizens of this country!

And definitely not these damn racist, god-fearing ignoramuses that cannot tolerate the idea of sharing a doctor’s office with a brown person that didn’t even know what ‘tea-bagging’ really meant!!

Time for someone to kick start attacking the root problems here. Campaign Finance Reform, the Electoral System, a beauracracy out of control, Regulatory Capture. These are the real problems folks. IF these were fixed, I think healthcare would be an easy situation to remedy.

Yeah, my health isn’t 4000-6000 lbs. of rolling metal threatening anyone elses personal safety or property either. Sorry for the malaprop.

Another dittohead [Edited by Moderator. Again the argument only]. Why would you or any other liberal/progressive want to democrats to fail this November? I listen to some of these blogs and I have to admit that I am not surprised that the Democrats don’t know what to do when people like you have input. Who is your favorite Repub? Rush Limpballs, Sean Hampster, Gin Beck?

And I forgot the 1000 lb gorilla in the room: MILITARY SPENDING COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY OUT OF CONTROL!

Sorry for the correction. There is far too much of my father in me if you want the truth. At least I didn’t inherit his politics or his bad back.

Yeah, this voting for Ds thing has worked out so well, we should do more of it.

Come on? You cannot be serious. We need to lose the house in November so that we can hang the loss around Obama/Rahm neck. Who are you? Are you blind to politics or are you just a dittohead Repub in disquise? If the Democrats lose the House or the Senate then that will mean that the Republicans can do whatever they want and then who will you blame. Get of the Gin Beck juice and start acting like you have some common sense.

Why? Because we are liberal/progressive and the Democrats are not.

Indeed. Where’s the crescendo of calls for Lynn Woolsey to resign as co-chair of the CPC? Jane did well to start the ball rolling, but maybe it would be worth it to continue beating the drum until Woolsey’s out.

Many Democratic Congresspersons like Suzanne Kosmas, have been totally preoccupied – straining their brains trying to figure out how to get teabaggers to vote for them. They voted no on HCR the first time around.

Now they feel they can redeem themselves with low-information (misinformed and ill-informed) Democratic voters by voting for the Health Insurance Bill.

Actual leadership on issues (that would have saved some of them) was too tall an order.

Kosmas sent out a mass mail piece a couple months ago. It was on “Fiscal Responsiblity”.

Politically Tone Deaf, anyone?

It seems that just a few short time ago we were talking about single payer. My how times change.

I think it is plain that InsurPharma has a pretty strong grip on this administration, and the majority of our Congress. No bill will pass that will infringes on the earnings of InsurPharma therefore no meaningful bill will pass.

This damnation of a bill is harmful to women and their human right to have control over their own bodies. No person voting for this monstrosity should be supported in anyway what so ever. Women are not chattels to be bargained away. I, like most of us here, am really pissed.

Why would you or any other liberal/progressive want to democrats to fail this November?

Oh I don’t know, maybe because they’ve done SO MUCH for the liberals and progressives? Oh that’s right. They haven’t. You’re right. We should all keep supporting the Democratic Party because it’s the lesser of two evils, unless it comes to something important like health insurance reform, and then they are nothing more than Republicans The Sequel.

If the Democrats lose the House or the Senate then that will mean that the Republicans can do whatever they want

Have you been nowhere near the television, radio or internet since 2006? If so, review your statement.

Why would you or any other liberal/progressive want to democrats to fail this November?

Because they failed the American people so miserably.

The responsibility to support them is not ours. The responsibility to earn our support is theirs.

So that’s a reason to hope that the Dems lose. A good political operative goes out and works for their team not against them. I personally don’t think that the Democrats have done a very good job to this point, however they are only 14 months into this administration. It is like basketball/football/hockey/soccer game. The game is not over until the final horn, unless team members stop playing then the game is guaranteed lost.

Have to agree. I’d rather have 41 Bernie Sanders in the Senate than 60 Evan Bayh’s. At least the 41 Bernie’s would stop all the fascist bullshit that comes down the pike.

MSM hasn’t given a peep about what’s ACTUALLY in the bill. Until of course, it passes. Then, you’ll have a non-stop deluge, of “MIDDLE-CLASS TAX HIKES”, “FORCING YOU OFF OF YOUR EXISTING PLAN”, “BIG FINES FROM THE IRS”, “HUGE OUT OF POCKET COSTS WITH HIGH DEDUCTIBLES” !

Dems will get crucified at the polls.

This isn’t a game. People are dying. People are losing their jobs, their homes, and yes their lives. Not a game at all. The Democratic Party is not the Progressive Party. They have to EARN support, not the other way around.

What you don’t understand is they’re not my team, not any more. I’ve changed my registration to Independent.

No. Just because you are liberal/progressive. I see a lot of posts praising Kucinich for his stance on Healthcare reform. I also see some post where people are saying well maybe he will be the one that will survive this fall if the Healthcare bill fails. WTF?

Are you blind to politics or are you just a dittohead Repub in disquise?

No, it is the bought and paid for elected democrats that are “dittohead Repub(s) in disquise”.

That is exactly correct. The MSM will crucify the Dems over this in exactly the way you describe. Of, course, they really do want the bill to pass. Its more money for the monied classes of which the MSM is a part. Who gonna buy more ads now, beotch!

Spare us the cliches.

We need to stop using the corporate elite and madison ave language.

The term Health Care Reform has nothing to do with the Obama and Max Baucus Insurance Welfare Plan.

In the old days you could just lie to people with no fear of back lash.

For example, Obama, Senate Dems, House Dems, name their Insurance Bailout Plan, Health Care Reform, Why? because no one would vote for an Insurance Bailout Bill.

Obama and the Morons that follow him, think that Just calling it Health Care Reform will trick people into voting for it. However, there is ONE HUGE problem the Bill does nothing to help people with their Health Care and when they find this out, heads are going to roll.

When the new political order gets finish ripping this Bill a part, the truth about this scam is going to wipe out all those who followed Obama.

What Progressives must do is control the “POWER TO DEFINE ISSUES” once you control the POWER TO DEFINE you will essentially control the game, in todays political market you have better stay close to the TRUTH.

The WHITE HOUSE is clearly loss in space! Smart Dems would not seek Obama help in November, they need to prepare ADS saying they do not support Obama’s Agenda.

DK is not the Democratic party. I can support him and his views without supporting the Democratic party. I am no longer a Democrat. There is no place in the Democratic party for progressives.

Don’t try to tell me about people dying. My mother died because she didn’t have healthcare, just like a lot of other people but putting it off and hoping that someone else is going to get it done is not the way forward. Don’t be part of the problem, be part of the solution.

Not necessary.

since when are Reagan Democrats (Republicans) worthy of being backed by real Democrats, or self respecting Independents?

Great!

Some operatives are paid by the word and some operatives are paid by the individual post.

You can’t find Reagan Democrats in todays crowd. They don’t exist.

We’re not putting anything off, we’re refusing to be part of a debacle. I believe the backlash from this crappy bill is going to put the Democratic party out of power for a generation.

Citizen banderson2:

No citizen, the problem is that progressives have played politics like it is a team sport but it isn’t, it’s a bloodsport power game and you can’t win in this game by just suckin’ it up and lettin’ the coach toss you out against the 300 pound gorillas to be chewed up and never play again. That’s what happened in 1994 because they believed ClintonRahma and voted for NAFTA and the tax hikes, as a result we ended up with Ralph Nader and George Bush. No citizen, we fight to improve our position INSIDE the party when we are in the minority. Obama is gunna be a one term President but we don’t hafta stay out of power for 15 years if we fight it out now.

Robin Carnahan didn’t appear with the President in Missouri, but the Associated Press reports that she will benefit financially from the fundraiser he attended that night. St. Charles, MO is my hometown and I’m still wondering why Obama would make his case for such a historic bill in a tiny venue (the oldest high school in St. Charles) which sits in the oldest section of a very conservative, very white community that voted for McCain.

And in that generation it’s assured that the Republicans will complete the destruction of the U.S. of A. Perhaps then something better can arise from the ashes of a failed state.

I vote we secede to Canada for healthcare. Then we can vote Harper out.

I am suprised that the repugs and corportise Dems are against this bill as it would effectively provide millions of new customers to the 5 or 6 insurance companies….

Its like would you prefer to have 1% of a trillion or 50% of a Million….

The insurance companies can still screw the Hospitals and Doctors out of payments so whats the deal…

I guess now we can change the Democratic Party Platform,,,,It was a sham anyway…

My, my, certainly are a lot of Karnaks here today. Got those Magic 8 Balls justa whirring away. *snort*

Sure looks like they’re not paid by the quality of their arguments… Take one for the team that’s doing the screwing? No thanks.

No, I think there’s a possibility that things will get so bad so fast that a third party might spring up. Granted, it’s not very likely, but I don’t think it’s impossible.

Unfortunately, you are probably right.

Citizen banderson2:

I forgive you your ignorance of my identity, Citizen, but I don’t forgive you your ignorance of history and politics or your lack of simple common sense. I won’t bother the regular FDLers here with who I am or how I’ve come by my understanding of politics and life but I will simply tell you that you have drunk too much of the ObamaRahma KoolAide. Obama is a one term President with or without this healthcare reform bill, the question is will we let ‘im kill the workin’ class base of the Democratic Party before he goes.

gesneri

You are assuming that Obama is a Democrat. He is not

You must accept the fact that OBAMA is no Democrat, he was the tool the elites used to stop the progressive movement.

Obama talks progressives and governs like a right wing republican.

The OBAMA white house of morons is like a BIG X RAY MACHINE it is exposing the cancer that dwells in the Democratic Party. A lot of Dems thought it was going to be business as usual, they were going to talk like progressives and govern like republicans.

Obama in an indirect way is helping progressives understand how Dems have screwed the Dem base for years.

Glenn Greenwald says it best, the DEMS in congress are screwing their BASE. (these Dems have been doing for years, one Day Joe Lieberman is the enemy, the next day it is Nancy Pelosi, the next day it is Dick Durbin, these dems have been playing these games for years, now the game is over)

What progressives must do is rid this Cancer out of the Party of FDR.

gesneri THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY BELONGS TO YOU!!! Not the fickle matter that follows OBAMA and Rahm.

FDR, JFK, MLK, Ted Kennedy would be pissed at you.

Because “having the President come and campaign for you” seems to be of dubious value these days — most endangered Democrats are fleeing when the President comes to town.

Obama’s ahead of schedule. It took Bush Jr seven years to have everyone running away from him.

For that, Obama wins the Bozo the Clown nose, hair, and shoes.

That third party looms on the horizon. The ground work is being laid, by the teabaggers.

There is a third party rising. The Teabaggers. Jim Renacci(R) is pretending to be a Teabagger in the tv ad above.

It’s not Obama, although I was never particularly enthusiastic about him. It’s the entirety of the Democratic party. All but a handful are bought and paid for corporate shills, and the party power structure is happy to keep it that way. I don’t think we can rid the party of a cancer, because I’ve begun to think the party is the cancer.

As Chris Hedges pointed out, Obama is nothing more than a product that was packaged and marketed and then sold to the American public as an agent of change. He is nothing more than a spokesmodel for corporate America. A neo-liberal that has turned his back on the working and middle class.

Thank you for staying relatively sane throughout all this. I couldn’t possibly feel more alienated these days from the politics and beliefs I’ve followed for my entire life, forty-four years of voting for Democrats included. The abandonment of the last shreds of principle in order to chase corporate campaign donations is the absolute last straw. If this passes, true reform will be dead for generations. That the Villagers don’t realize what they are doing is simply stupefying.

The good news is that it gives me the needed motivation to leave the reservation forever. I’m going to write, take care of my wife and the damn cat, raise chickens, plant beans, and get on with living any way I can. To hell with this stinking vale of tears, to hell with gradualism, and to hell with the Democrats.

Lastly, I can’t be the only one who feels this way. That we are not believed by the powers that be is monumentally insulting, but I’ll get over that because I’m free…

So well said. I’m 64 and have been voting Democratic since I turned 21. No more, except for primaries by progressives against DINOS.

I don’t think the Teabaggers will last; the Republicans will absorb them or destroy them.

as MLK once said, “now is not the time to swallow the tranquilizing pill of gradualism.”

Bluetoe

Real Dems are not going anywhere, the fickle matter that follows Obama is going to get kick out of the Dem party.

How many people think Obama would have won a De, primary saying the following.

My name is Obama I am against Drug Importation
My name is Obama I am against the Public Option
My name is Obama I am for the individual mandate
My name is Obama I want to tax Union Health Care Plans
My name is OBAMA I want to roll back Roe Vs Wade

If Obama would have said the above in a DEM PRIMARY he would have gotten laugh at and booed off stage for being Glenn Beck JR.

Real Dems ARE GOING NO WHERE!

That’s a pretty good description. A lot of folks are just beginning to understand the concept of neoliberalism since the elites and their media have been so busy framing things in the obsolete liberal/conservative meme for the last 30 years or so.

They will first use them as their shock troops. That’s just how they were used during last summers townhall meetings. They are not done with the Teabaggers yet. Many of them have weapons and as of yet they have not been directly ordered to fire a shot. All in due time. All in due time.

Atleast most of the tea baggers BELIEVE that CRAP they spew…

Where as Most elected Dems say one thing and do another…

When did universal healthcare NOT become a PLANK of a DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY…

Just saying

Same as the Dem establishment used us and others to get Obama elected.

I totally agree with you.

the screwing of the Dem base did not start with Obama

like oil and water don’t mix

neoliberal and Democrats who follow FDR, JFK don’t mix

One cannot be a Neoliberal and be a real Democrat at the same time.

For anyone interested in Chris Hedges article on “brand Obama” here’s a link.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090503_buying_brand_obama/

thanks for pointing out something that rarely gets stated. Driving tens of millions of people into ‘means testing’ in a society that yields respect in direct proportion to wealth is a way to further divide, demoralize and disaffect a whole lot of Americans. And the tea party wins again and everybody has a great excuse for not trying anything progressive again.
But so what? If you are an incumbent dem, in a ‘D’ district and you have been salting away your pile for years and you will always have your sweetheart pension and gov paid for health care, so no matter what you’ll never have to come in contact with ‘those people’. And maybe you can get a post office named after you when you retire and give your seat up to one of your kids, if they haven’t already made a better bed in Wall Street or corporate law.
I think the people I am most disgusted with are the members of the Congressional Black Caucus who represent people who have had to endure the kind of demeaning crap you point out, all of their lives. When, finally, a guy is elected who ought to have some empathy with them, instead they get …, well, Obama. There is a reason he got out of the community organizer business pretty quick and that is he doesn’t really like poor people. He grew up on the edge himself, not poor but certainly not with the advantages of his non-scholarship classmates. He used his charm and brains (and MLK’s legacy) to advance himself in Chicago politics and society. (remember his Pritzker connection?)
If you have read Kucinich’s autobio covering his first 18 years (The Courage to Survive), you see a guy who really knew what it was to be poor, to wear cast offs and live off the importuning of relatives and sometimes the whole family sleeping in a car, but still, he kept his head up. He scrubbed floors to pay for siblings schooling, fought for a place on the basketball team until he almost died from a bowel disorder (he had several feet of intestine removed which also kept him from fulfilling his ambition to, like his father, be a Marine). I think he learned early that the first thing they want to take from you is your dignity, whether it is an overbearing priest or a schoolyard bully lying in wait, and to this he would not summit. (the bio, btw, reveals a self deprecatingly witty character that I never see in the interviews. Maybe it is because he thinks that the little time he is given must be used for serious discussion or maybe it is because most interviewers try to put him on the defensive.)
I think, textynn, that the pelosicrats (i.e. rich, patronizing dems) and Obama (a soon to be rich, patronizing dem) hate Rep. Kucinich so much because he is authentically what they pose to be, a real human being.
Their disrespect is never so obvious as when they (ever so jealous of their own titles) always address him as “Dennis’. Notice they don’t address Stupack as ‘Bart’ or any of their right wing ‘enemies?’ by their first names. Just Dennis. But he never shows offense, just sticks to his guns. And his dignity. (and the prettiest wife of anybody in politics today, so no doubt their is a little envy their, too.)

Wait, could someone clarify, there is a fallback plan to this audacious insurer bailout? Please say it is so.

Not in the old vision of the Democratic Party, no. Now “Democratic Party” is just a name with its hierarchy pimping the same shit as the “Republican Party.” The only difference in the 2 is their view on social issues and even those are coming closer. Twenty years ago Stupak would have been pilloried just for suggesting his amendment.

You are a 100% correct

It’s all come down to threats and intimidation in order to pass the health care bill.

Now now Jane, it’s not all about threats and intimidation. As your own Jon Walker is telling us, it’s also about ponies.

What do you want? What do you NEED? It’s a little sad that the President himself is resorting to handing out ponies, presumably because Rahm et. al. have no credibility on the Hill? How often are congressmen given a personal face to face with the President so he can hand out ponies?

Interesting that one of the things Desiree Rogers was admonished for was her references to “brand Obama.” Naomi Klein’s No Logo is excellent for showing just how shallow the “brand” concept is, extremely lucrative, but shallow.

I don’t know that the Teabaggers realize they have been used by the Republicans but progressives certainly know they have been used by Obama and his ilk. When people realize they’ve been had they are really really, pissed off.

No war but class war!

Remind me again who Desiree Rogers is. The social secretary?

fer sure.

peas!

My disappointment lies with Congress. That said, it’s nice to see ‘em, figuratively, with no clothes. Got a couple other issues I’d like to see ‘em piss themselves over, as well. As long as they’re there play as much fuck fuck with ‘em as I can. I never expected much from Obama and that’s what we got.

Yeah. She was from the corporate world and brought all that shit with her.

When is FDL going to start whipping against this fascist bill? The time is now.

This is the strongest breath of fresh air of class war I have smelled since the WTO protest in Seattle, brother! Or maybe sister. Makes no difference to me!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lorri37/4261104525/

beach boys tune, barbra anne…

oh! oh! oh! …

oh!bamaran!

peas!

No time like the present. Got nothin’ to lose and nowhere to go. I’ma dude.

Why don’t the people go ahead without obama, start their own non profit health care institution?

Is this impossible?

Bye-bye America….This Healthcare Bill is more than a travesty and a fiasco but a crime against the people.

The American Empire is OVER….

The Democratic Party is FINISHED Forever…

Mayor Daley of Chicago is a Republican and a Democrat in name only…..Ask Paul Street and others who know Chicago politics and they will confirm this reality…..Obama is surrounded by Republicans such as Mr. David Axelrod and Rahm Emanuel…..

WH Chief [Rahm Emanuel] Helped GOP Sink 9/11 Trial
By Jason Leopold
March 11, 2010

“…White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel has collaborated behind the scenes with Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham to oppose the Obama administration’s plans to use federal civilian courts, not military commissions, to try alleged Islamic terrorists, according to sources and press reports…. Emanuel’s back-room dealings with Graham represent a little-noticed element of President Barack Obama’s gradual retreat from promises to rely on traditional civilian and military courts as the best way to bring alleged terrorists to justice and to close the Guantanamo Bay prison ….Though Emanuel’s defenders insist that he has been loyal to the administration’s decisions once they’ve been made, some evidence suggests that he continued to encourage Graham to resist politically sensitive judgments, such as Attorney General Eric Holder’s decision to try five alleged 9/11 plotters in civilian court rather than before military commissions….For instance, the Washington Post reported that after losing out to Holder on the internal debate last fall, Emanuel tried to keep tabs on the process through Graham and apparently used profane language to suggest that the South Carolina Republican drive home to the White House how much damage Holder’s decision had caused….Graham told the Post that Emanuel would “say: ‘How’s it going? Did you tell them they were going to lose you?’ And in terms a sailor could understand.”….The seeds of the Emanuel-Graham collaboration and Obama’s policy reversals can be traced back to the weeks after Obama’s election when the President-elect met with Graham and Sen. John McCain, Obama’s defeated presidential rival, at the transition headquarters in Chicago in December 2008. The goal was a bipartisan approach to the dilemma of Guantanamo detainees…Obama told Graham, a former judge advocate general in the military reserves, that he needed his help in closing Guantanamo and put him in touch with Emanuel about working on a bipartisan plan to turn that vision into a reality, the Post reported….Emanuel and Graham did speak, and Emanuel, known as a hard-charging political dealmaker, soon realized that winning Graham’s support as well as the support of other Republicans to shutter Guantanamo would not be possible unless self-professed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) was prosecuted before a military commission….”

Read the rest @:
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/031110b.html

Welcome to the Fascist States of America and remember that the Democratic Party are the new Weimar Democratic Party of the Fascist States of America….It takes weak kneed people like today’s Democratic Party to be the set-up for this coming Fascist State…

America will also soon be a FAILED State as well….The worst is on its way and say good-bye to the value of the American dollar….

Repression will be getting worse and worse under the Failed Presidency of Mr. Barack Obama who is nothing but a Republican calling himself a “Democrat.” Obama is already a Complete Failure and I hope the teachers unite against this cowardly man named Barack Obama and his despicable minions such as Arne Duncan and the rest of the scoundrels in the Obama White House/administration. These peple are utterly useless.

Blue Cross/Blue Shields are (mostly) non-profit. That doesn’t mean they don’t screw over their customers or that they’ve been successful at controlling health care costs.

Part of the reason behind the public option is that private profiteers in the health insurance market are unconscionable. But that’s a relatively small part of the problem. The bigger problem is that private insurers lack the will and/or ability to control rising health care costs. So, they take the path of least resistance and simply divvy up the market amongst themselves and pass any/all health care cost increases onto their customers.

The health care market doesn’t work like a market for widgets: consumers don’t care about prices when they get sick and they aren’t generally informed enough to select the best, most cost-effective care. Health care providers don’t compete with each other on price, or at least rarely do so (aren’t you in fact skeptical of “cheap” doctors?). We need a public option because we need what amounts to price controls on the rise of health care costs in this country. No private corporations will do that – they’d rather take their profits out of their customers’ hides.

They’re at the point where every vote they pull either has to come from someone who is retiring, or is willing to retire for a fat appointment in exchange for their vote, or they flat-out torpedo the seat.

I keep thinking, Jane, that if the Republicans are smart, they will “allow” just enough of their retiring House members to find some excuse to vote “for” the bill and push it over the top.

Republicans HAVE to know what a disaster this is for Democrats. I don’t think they’d be reluctant to shove Dems into the pool with this anvil around their collective necks.

I did not campaign for Obama and NEVER EVER PUT His Sticker on my car….

Politicians are not to be revered either…..Politicians are to be loathed every step of the way….Never Trust any politician…they are out for themselves first and foremost, and you are not the most important “person,” to them….

It’s about time some of you understand this Reality….Politicians throw around the name – “the American people” as they stick a knife in your backside….Looking to any politican for your life’s problems is your own fault…..Politicians are the scum of the earth…..

Politicians do not care whether you LIVE or DIE either…

Examples:

Iraq War
Afghan War
The Housing Crisis
Welfare Reform
Cuts in Medicare
Cuts in Medicaid
Selling out Farmers
Environmental Degradation
Firing Teachers while Obama Bails out Bankers
The Biggest Defense/Miltary Budget Ever and- under Obama
Dipossessing Urban Americans out of their homes under the guise of “urban renewal” and “fighting crime.”

The best thing that could happen to us is this bill passing and the dems losing a lot of seats bcz of it.

But if the bill passes, by the time the next election rolls around [or the one after that], we won’t have any money to contribute to good candidates because the health insurance companies will have taken all of it.

I’m still wondering why Obama would make his case for such a historic bill in a tiny venue (the oldest high school in St. Charles) which sits in the oldest section of a very conservative, very white community that voted for McCain.

Because in Obama’s view, that’s his “base.”

If your mother didn’t have healthcare because she was too poor to buy a gold-plated insurance policy, or her condition caused her rates to skyrocket, then the bill you’re whipping for around here wouldn’t have saved her either.

It would have forced her to buy something, without controls on the premium price (meaning that the subsidy will be a very fleeting measure of “affordability” as it will quickly be included in the premium), and it would offer no guarantee that she’d have been able to afford to actual use her insurance policy, because the deductible might have been $10,000+, or perhaps her co-pays would be 50%, etc. etc. etc.

Before you run around making no argument of substance, and accusing others of being “dittoheads” you might want to take consideration that it’s possible they arrived at a different conclusion than you did, because they actually did the research first, and they’re interested in actual solutions, not political football.

What is wrong with you people? If this bill doesn’t pass you will not see another in your lifetime. If it does pass, I am going to say it will be good, not bad, for Democrats. If it’s so bad for Democrats why are the Republicans so against it? If they really felt that way they’d vote for it. The truth is they know they are doomed if it passes, I can’t see why FDL can’t see that. Usually FDL is not taken in by the conventional wisdom of the MSM that is so often, if not exclusively, wrong.

I mean keep it up and you will find out for sure if there’s any difference between a President Obama and a President Palin.

So i can read,PO is dead and buried,Obama is sending MOVON to intimidate
NO votes,WH is threatening NO votes,IRS will collect money for BCBS because the despicable mandate without PO,this
bill is a f…shame!nothing left to say.Buy insurance to the thefts or be
fined,nowhere to go.Marvellous!!Thanks to Obama we are being sold out to
insurers.

And this surprises you? And you say you are 64? It was ever thus. Things were much worse under Reagan, and that was 30 years ago.

Dear Jane:
Reading this column of responses amazes me, I’ve never seen so many people scatter and run. But what all these people don’t get is that Washington is just a symptom, Washington is easy enough to fix just vote them out.
The problem is Wall Street, they own Washington, the president, the senate, the Congress and the Supreme Court And they will remain the owners until the American people take it back. This is the Health Care bill that wall street wants and all the rest of it is just shit. Answer that one Jane!!!!!!

let’s get somebody up there in this world that will just speak to the daunting problems facing the ordinary citizens of this country!

Time for someone to kick start attacking the root problems here. Campaign Finance Reform, the Electoral System, a beauracracy out of control, Regulatory Capture. These are the real problems folks.

Oh, we had that person. Someone who followed every single one of the prescriptions you suggest. But the “savvy” liberals and the mainstream Democrats were too busy batting their eyelashes at the corporations and turned away from him and have spent much time and energy vilifying him ever since. So now we have nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Hey, I thank you for the correction. I’ve always wondered what the correct iteration of Hear! hear! was. So I would usually write it as Hear! Here! to cover both bases.

That’s what most people mean by “class war” and “corporatism”. The top 5% v 95% thing and the deliberate merger of corporations with government to stave off a class war.

A good political operative goes out and works for their team not against them.

Translation: SUCKER!! We’ve all learned the meaning of that!

runfastandwin,

Are you a MoveOn.org Shill and just here to insult Jane and others at FDL?

I think its time that anyone who supports this Health Insurance Bill be ridiculed and insulted as NOT REALLY CARING ABOUT THE WELFARE OF OTHER AMERICAN CITIZENS.…

If you like this Bill which is not REAL Healthcare Reform then don’t come off like you are some wonderful “person” whom cares about their fellow human beings….In fact, if you actually support this bill, consider yourself a Good Fascist!!!!

Got that?

Yeah, except that when Bernie had the chance to take a stand he caved. Sorry, but being avuncular and saying the right things doesn’t get a pass from me for selling out.

Well Mr. Assbacher. If the title dittohead offends you, then what about DUMBASS. You are one of those Rush Limpball/Gin Beck lovers who come on and illicit a post to try and make yourself seem smart while at the same time all you do is make your true colors show all the more brightly. You don’t know anything about my mother or me, so don’t try and analyze something that you don’t know anything about. Go back to watching Faux news and tell that garbage to someone who gives a shit.

as a result we ended up with Ralph Nader and George Bush.

Ha ha ha ha ! HA HA ha Ha . . .You Nader haters never learn a f***in’ thing do ya?

Jeez, kid. You even read any of the preceding hundred some-odd posts, many by long-time respected diarists on FDL, who have, in fact, been paying the closest of attention, for the duration of the reform dance?

Jane Hamsher is one of the reasons the PO is still undead at this 11th hour, and she’s also one of the reasons the “nothing to see here, move it along” traditonal sausage making backstabbing hasn’t succeeded.

The reasoning laid out by the folks here is that of the true Loyal Opposition, the many, many Americans that are furious with Obama for absolutely dumping his campaign persona, willingly funnelling trillions to corporate interests, letting anti-abortion camels under the Democratic Big Tent–Nixon In China, anyone?– condoning extrajudicial arrest, imprisonment, and even murder, upping the Pentagon budget while states are drowning under a revenue shortfall tsunami, and who’s right now setting out with clearly-stated intent to gut Social Security and Medicare.

Getting the picture, chum?

Now you’re talking. Things must come to system-threatening crisis levels before anything fundamental CAN possibly change. It’s just the way America is built.

More people now count themselves as Independents than as Dems or R’s. Granted, most Independents lean right but judging from various lefty blogs (certainly this one) a fair # are probably disenchanted, er, make that righteously pissed off, true Progressives.

How can we delineate all those people and bring ‘em under one banner, the banner of anti-corporatism first and foremost.

Here’s my Mephistopheles dream deal: Trade soul for the reincarnation of Martin Luther King, at 10AM of a Thursday morning, in the Oval Office, with the White House press corps Bobby Seale-d to chairs and the cameras running….

Rahm would shriek for tasers and piss himself.

That didn’t look right. Maybe, “Rahm would shriek for guards and tasers and piss himself.”

Absolutely, because if you start to actually rid the party of the cancer and turn it back in to a New Deal style Progressive Party then the corporate megabucks will pivot and flow in to the Republican Party. That’s how the duopoly works. Either way, the goal is to always keep Progs isolated and out of power. That’s why the duopoly must be abandoned and something else be constructed. It will be a heavy lift, and it stands no chance until things reach crisis levels. So the sooner we reach crisis levels, the better. I know it sounds brutal, but the whole system and process is brutal, there’s no getting around it.

I believe it is illegal. Isn’t that what Mcarren -Ferguson is about?

Typical pattern of no substantive reply to specific policy points but instead resorting to ad hominem attacks. You brought up your mom and a cogent and respectful response was offered. You chose to get pissy. You are a wet behind the ears naif in these matters and are WAY over your head. You need to watch your mouth.

Jane,

[Jack Murtha....R.I.P.]

Another vote lost in this….

Didn’t the Democratic Party leave us?

Spoken like a true Dittohead!!!

This blog post is one big “oh snap.” Keep bashing Obama, maybe if we get a Republican Congress and a Republican president, then the firedoglakers will really get what they want. Everything will just fall into place. Great strategy.

I am totally for that. Obama is very dangerous to us because democrats won’t hold him accountable just because he has a D after his name. I’m for supporting DK for 2012 and even if he isn’t elected at least we got rid of Obama. It is a perfect time to get rid of the entrenched democrats which are no longer representing us.

Oh good, first blame Nader and now the progressives. When do you suggest we start holding democrats accountable?

I’d say we ought to make that a weekly honor, there are so many sellouts and so little time.

Wellpoint is a part of the blues and they aren’t non- profit.

That will teach us. You mean like what happened from 1994 to 2006? Oh wait, the Democratic establishment did that to us, didn’t they? The leadership has failed us. We want new leadership now, or we’ll find a competent vehicle someplace else. We don’t need 30 more years like the last 30 that Reagan ushered in. I guarentee you that staying with Obama is a sure way of taking that return ride.

It’s nice to see that we’re still hovering in suspension of disbelief (or is it just bitterness?)…This post suggests a “fallback plan” which had been thoroughly denied by the WH after it originated via Rupert Murdoch’s propoganda machine in the Wall Street Journal….Then to, maybe Rupe’s an ally now, too?…Oh well, we can ALL root for Dennis Kucinich….until he “sells out” and we ask for HIS resignation…Me? I’ll accept the 31 mill Americans who will now have healthcare. I’ll trust that the reform improves over time, like Soc Sec and Medicare…There’s a word that describes this —–Progressive.

To name just a few…
• No competition with the private market.
• No real curb on premiums increases, rescission.
• Mandated payment to private industry.
• Enforced by the Internal revenue service.

There’s a word that describes this, too. More than one, in fact.

Obama again proves that he’s really a Republican. A vote for this bill will destroy the Democratic party for years to come. Democratic Congressmen who vote for it will soon be out of office. Maybe that’s what Rahm and Obama intended all along.

Last time I checked, pushing for a bill supported by the insurance industry with a mandate forcing people to buy it is essentially a Republican idea. Obama is no Democrat as his bailouts of Wall St. and big banks should have shown you. He’s bought and paid for by Goldman Sachs which is why so many people from that giant squid are in his administration.

been reading here for a few months (am personally big on single payer), but think your efforts for the PO are great. I’ve about decided that it’s going to take some ‘mountain moving’ for these ‘leaders’ to respond.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could get massive numbers of people to drop their health ins. and all show up at emergency rooms at the same time. Shut down work, have lines at ER, and stop paying the ins. thiefs. I would love that!

let me add one more point even worse than the listed ones by you:

Removes only sad but true cost-control measure present right now which is People who cannot afford the ever-increasing premiums due to varying personal responsibilities sadly drop out at a huge personal risk. Since people in middle class are dropping off the net when the premiums are increased which is the only true fear insurance companies have right now if this bill passes then the premiums will simply go-through the roof since it removes that existing single fear through mandates.

Currently Medical prices in US are way bloated than rest of the world due to lack of competition, if this bill passes situation will become much worse than present, this mandates will make simply destroy whatever economy we have left and put middle class through avoidable hard-ships varied in nature and hard to quantify. No Public Option No Mandates.

We’ve just got to face it that too many Democrats will never do what’s right, and take the long view of replacing them with those who will.

We give close to 40% to 50% of our paycheck to government so that they can improve and safe-guard our shared resources for us and for future generations. Thats more money than what we are left with at the end of the month in the bank and so I think everybody needs to pay some attention to government policies being framed by our politicians.

Just in the recent past we used have to very good politicians like LBJ who left progressive policies which we are enjoying right now. eg. Civil Rights Act, Wilderness Act, Medicare Act, Highway Beautification Act. Imagine a USA without those Acts right now and you will see a third world nation at fight with itself internally and horrible living standards.

For last few decades we are having politicians who are competing with themselves to pass packages labeled reform but if we look closely are actually deforms and some cases scams with no benefits to the Americans because they are allowed to be written by corporate lobbyists by our politicians in exchange for campaign donations.

In my opinion for this state of affairs fault lies with us. We are voting for parties who accept Campaign contributions from Corporations and then they spend this money on $400 hair cuts etc on campaign trials as I read during last campaign. In a two party system this kind of race to bottom for campaign contributions is illogical.

We need to give these two parties some real competition. Trying for a president from a third party will be un-realistic in my opinion. If we can elect one senator who will block till bills become better and 5 representatives from a third party which does not accept corporate campaign contributions such as Green Party then things will change dramatically. We will have better policies actually written by our politicians instead of current bait-and-switch stuff which will benefit us and our future generations.

at least GWB could deal with being universally hated…and didn’t still think he should go out and campaign for people who didn’t want him near them. Obama is so full of himself that he can’t take the hint….

Thanks for the article. It helps put political motivation into perspective.

You sound like my brother. Good for you. I’m just now finding out that he was right.