It’s like the difference between hitting your shoulder or your forearm and hitting your funnybone with an equivalent amount of pressure. The first two you might barely feel, but the third sends you through the roof.
When you send the DCCC into a month-long freak out with a few regional polls that anticipate the country’s mood on health care a week before the Coakley election, or 42 members of Congress insert language into the Congressional record at the behest of lobbyists to counter a couple of blog posts, or Nobel prize winning NYT columnists are called into service to refute you, you know you’ve hit the sweet spot.
And it’s amazing what can be achieved when you stake out your ground early and just keep standing there.
Last June 23, we stated our position on health care reform. We said were going to ask members of Congress to commit to vote against any health care bill that didn’t have a public option. It wasn’t an original thought — we were simply echoing an effort that was already going on within the progressive caucus.
We said “okay, you gave up on single payer, so let’s agree to draw this line here. Because right now, everybody says the lobbyists shouldn’t be able to drag Congress over it. And when this is all over, we’ll see how well everyone’s words match up with their actions.”
I asked everyone who works for FDL for their opinion before we started. Everyone wholeheartedly supported the effort. And the only people who were upset within the larger FDL community were the single payer folks who didn’t think it went far enough. But it was never meant as a policy prescription, it was rather a firewall against something that was almost universally acknowledged at the time to mean that health care reform had failed and had turned into a bailout for the medical industrial complex. They thought that the line should be drawn much sooner. But it was the difference between kicking a field goal from the 70 yard line vs. the 50 yard line. One might be possible — the other simply wasn’t.
(As a side note, Ryan Grim recently asked me if I’d do anything differently if I had it all to do over again. I told him that I thought his story on the PhRMA deal memo was the single most important piece of reporting in the entire health care debate, and that its impact was profound. If I’d known what was going on from the start I would have run the campaign against the PhRMA deal, but in mid-August when it first appeared it looked like we were too far down the road on the public option to switch campaigns. Nobody knew the process would stretch out this long. If I could do it all again, I might have switched to breaking up the PhRMA deal.)
Anyway, when I was flying home last year from Netroots Nation, I sat with Kevin Drum. I’ve always had a good relationship with Kevin since I invited him to the first Kobepallooza in 2005. We talked about health care and I said said I didn’t think health care was worth passing if it included a mandate to buy private insurance, but not a public option. He thought it was. But we both knew then where we would wind up. Neither of us has changed our position since then.
Kevin continues to be a firm advocate for me changing mine:
In absolute terms, Jane may not represent a huge number of people or a vast amount of money, but she certainly seems like the linchpin of a disaffected left that could easily represent the difference between success and failure for a bill that’s likely to come down to one or two votes. Speaking for myself, I sure wish she could look past the disappointments — most of which were sadly inevitable — and instead focus all that energy on the big picture of what the Democratic healthcare bill means both for real people right now and for the likelihood of further reform in the future.
Our position has nothing to do with disappointment, disaffection or disillusionment. It was a clear policy position staked out in June of 2009 and reiterated for the past 9 months. Subsequently, on July 31, 60 members of Congress signed a letter agreeing to vote against any bill that didn’t have a public option, and the response was blogospheric-wide cheer that raised $430,000 in August in support of that commitment.
Many people who supported that effort at the time have now decided that we should change that position, because they have moved on. And they all too frequently mischaracterize our efforts in order to counter them, deriding them as “tantrum-throwing,” “anti-health care reform” or “marginal.”
Well, to the extent that we’ve had any impact at all, it’s due to the fact that there is widespread distrust of the Senate health care bill. There’s nothing “marginal” about a position reflected by 48% of the public who want Congress to “vote against a health care bill similar to President Obama’s” while only 43% want them to vote for it, per Gallup. Support drops further in the Rasmussen poll when the question doesn’t include the President’s name — 53% oppose the bill and 42% support it.
A small group of pundits appear to have misled themselves into believing that the opinions they hold, which echo those of a self-interested DC political class, are widely reflected by the public.
If that was true, Martha Coakley would be a Senator.
The fact of the matter is that you don’t run a large political blog with a core audience of people who follow the health care debate closely, and hold on to that audience even when you wind up at odds with a popular President and the Democratic establishment, unless you’re channeling very deep and powerful currents in the country at large. Those who think that the Senate health care bill should pass because the Democrats need a political “victory” don’t seem to understand that they are the ones who actually represent the teeninest, tiniest proportion of the country imaginable.
When we started the public option campaign, when we asked people to donate money, we made a pact with our community to see it through to the end. If we have to whip health care, if we have to run a campaign to enforce the pledge made by members of Congress to vote against a bill without a public option, we will. It may not succeed and I wouldn’t kid anyone about its chances of holding 65 votes, but we’ve already got the page set up — it’s a thing of beauty, replete with primary filing deadlines and each signature that appeared on the July 31 letter.
If it looks like they’ve got the votes to pass the Senate bill, we’re ready, with an arsenal we’ve been assembling for the past 9 months. We’ll reactivate the One Voice for Choice campaign, too — because there’s nothing “progressive” about a health care bill that auctions off women’s reproductive rights. Both Democratic leadership and the pro-choice members of the House who promised that Stupak would be “fixed” in the final bill should be reminded of that fact.
And no, Nelson isn’t a fix, just ask Stephen Schneck, director of the Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies at Catholic University of America. Yesterday he said “I actually think the Senate bill will more effectively prohibit federal funds from going to abortion…that legislation will actually reduce the demand for abortion in the United States.” There were any number of ways Democratic leadership could’ve gotten around Stupak if they’d addressed his letter in June of 2009. “Sorry, ladies, too late now” is not a reasonable excuse.
Reproductive rights are part of the Democratic Party platform, no matter how many boy pundits shake their fists and say otherwise.
We would do it because that’s what we said we’d do, and it’s what our community wants. Over 20,000 people ultimately took our survey on health care, and the numbers didn’t change significantly from where they were when we reported the results at 14,000 — 91.7% think it’s “important” or “very important” that a health care bill include a public option, and 76.3% think members of Congress who break their pledge to vote “no” should face primary challenges. A full 79.7% think it’s “important” or “very important” that the health care bill contain no restrictions on abortion coverage, and 82.3% think that any member who casts a vote to restrict abortion coverage should face a primary.
As I noted when we reported the results in January, it was widely rumored that House progressives insisted on pushing the vote past most of the primary filing deadlines before they’d agree to vote for the Senate bill. They’re well aware of what awaits them in their own communities if they cast this vote.
But I see no real evidence that it’s going to be necessary at this point. House leadership is whipping hard, in spite of Jim Clyburn’s assurances to the contrary, and all the momentum is in the other direction. Both Mike Arcuri and Jerry McNerney were “yes” votes, and both have said they’ll vote “no.” Stupak has five votes he didn’t have when he wrote his June 19 letter, including Brad Ellsworth who was whipping against Stupak for his own “compromise” (basically Capps with stronger rhetoric) before the first House vote. Stupak is only picking up support as members of Congress scramble for shade in the wake of a truly “career-ending” vote that spells electoral armageddon for the fall.
Does anyone seriously think Nancy Pelosi wouldn’t call for a vote immediately if, as she says, she actually had them?
But like I said at the beginning of this post, I don’t believe in asking people to do something when it’s not necessary. And I don’t see any evidence that whipping this bill is. In the mean time, I support efforts to get members of Congress to try and fix the bill, and hope they do what they’re supposed to do at this point in the process — play hardball for their votes and insist on making the bill better as a criteria for committing them.
It’s something that Bart Stupak certainly understands.
In the mean time, we’ll be working on urging Congress to pass student loan reform, something they need to do before they pass the next budget in April and the reconciliation instructions expire. And if they try to pass health care through reconciliation without student loan reform — which means they deny colleges across the country and millions of students the help they need for another year — everyone affected by that decision will no doubt be pulled into the fray too.
Fighting for student loan reform is a positive use of energy. It’s a clear “win” for the Democrats, the White House and the students and colleges who desperately need it. It’s an even bigger win for President Obama, who had the courage to sketch it out as a primary goal of his administration and has never wavered in his support for it.
And as for health care? I don’t buy the “now or never, this or nothing” arguments that are being used to scare people into supporting the bill. The only reason they’re addressing health care now is because the system is broken, and WalMart (and other corporations) need Congress to do something to fix it. That’s not going to change, whether or not they pass a face-saving bill that makes health care unaffordable and doesn’t take effect until 2014. And they will hopefully understand at that point that lying to progressives and triangulating against your own campaign promises (and the people who believed them) is not a recipe for success.
The only thing the Democrats will succeed in doing by passing this bill is decimating their majority and shooting themselves in the foot, because turning over control of the House to Republicans in 2010 actually will stop meaningful health care reform from passing.
As for FDL, we’ll continue to maintain the position we’ve held since June 23 and insist that a health care bill must actually achieve its goal of helping people, rather than the the unregulated monopolies who exploit them. That’s not being a “purist.” It’s just being pragmatic.
Ultimately, I think the current bill will collapse under the weight of its own inadequacies no matter what we do. And until I see signs that it has any realistic chance of passing in its present form, we’ll continue to devote our energies in places where we feel we can make a difference.



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Thanks Jane, I’m with you all the way. No public option, no deal! I’d like to see the individual mandate go as well, a position that Howard Dean supports. Did you see Marcos bashing Kucinich on Countdown last night? I thought that it was thoroughly disgusting and incredibly hypocritical! I’m boycotting DKos and do not plan on ever going back, it has become infested with purity trolls. Thanks again for unflinching support of the principles behind true HCR.
Jane, thank you for your wise leadership on the health care issue. It’s been truly amazing to see how prescient your predictions turn out to be. And it’s so refreshing to hear a voice in the political world who actually says what she means and means what she says. Almost everyone else, especially those in the progressive establishment, have been consistently backtracking and devolving on this issue over the past year.
But then again, if you don’t take a principled stand and draw real lines somewhere, you’re only going to get pushed around.
Spot on as usual Jane. I am still amazed that we have a majority of democratic politicians and commentators pushing a bill with requirments to buy private health insurance, when the people clearly don’t want it. Don’t they talk to anyone outside the beltway?
When I saw the Marko’s comments last night on tv. I thought for sure we would hear commentators this morning calling this ridiculous, but they have actually defended him. They are actually praising what he said.
We’re probably not supposed to criticize a fellow traveler in the blogosphere, but it looked for all the world that someone finally got around to activating Kos’ chip. He called the Senate bill dog crap at one point: suddenly anyone who’s opposed to passing it with some cosmetic changes and vague statements about revisiting HCR “down the line” is acting unconscionably?
Washington loves its Kabuki. The only thing inevitable about this whole process is that progressives were going to get steamrolled on this deal – but I’m surprised to see so many alleged progressives driving the steamroller.
Ultimately, I’d like to see public universities be tuition-free for all US citizens. If we didn’t dump all of our money down the DoD rathole this would be easy to afford and would pay back huge dividends in the form of a more educated electorate.
As for now, student loan reform is a great idea. Why are the banks making money off of this process in the first place? It’s the same perverted principle as private health insurance companies making outrageous profits off of personal misery and suffering, and adding to the burden of those who are sick and terminally ill.
I’m not traveling anywhere with that dude anymore! If he wants to be rude and crass then I’ll be rude and crass to him in return…
As we move forward into the 2010 election cycle, we’re bound to see more arguments like the ones that we saw at FDL leading up to the MA special election, with several people who work for FDL trying to put down members of the larger FDL community.
Please take note of what Jane says in this post:
followed by:
Frankly, I’m sick of several frontpagers at FDL inappropriately dismissing many members of the larger FDL community because we think that Americans have been sold out by the Democratic Party and that the Democrats who did the selling out or the enabling of sellouts do not deserve any support in 2010.
Thanks, Jonathan. I don’t think you can run a 9 month campaign and get people to make promises, then back down on it and ever expect anyone to take you seriously again.
But I don’t want people to mistake a lack of action for capitulation. If we have to whip, we will. I just do not see that as anything other than wasted effort right now, energy that could more productively be engaged elsewhere.
I really appreciate you opening your views and tactics to readers. It is very helpful.
a question for JH or whomever wants to kick in: if leadership is whipping now, shouldn’t fdl do so as well? Is sentiment in House really that “safe”?
What makes me really optimistic about this approach is that someone on the left is FINALLY doing what the right has done for years — developing strategies that work for the long term.
And unlike the righty strategies (a few rich people funding right wing think tanks that covertly manipulate the media) this strategy is based on listening to what a large group of people really want and then figure out how to make it a reality.
Long term this is a really good approach. Go, Jane and all of us at FDL!!
Thank you, Jane. I don’t think there’s a progressive-action organization that spells out its goals, objectives, tactics, and reasoning as well as you have here.
People can argue with the goals; they can debate the objectives. Folks can discuss tactics; they can argue your reasoning. But no one can fault FireDogLake for transparency. You’ve been very clear from the very beginning about what’s going on here. It hasn’t wavered. And it won’t.
What people who call us dead-enders, marginal, or tantrum-throwing don’t seem to understand is that we support the radical idea that the President, and the Democratic party, keep very recent promises to voters. Anything else is a prescription for policy failure and political defeat.
Thanks for this, Jane. It helps to be reminded of the state of play every once in a while.
It’s hard to say whether they’re really whipping, or just trying to avoid falling objects by making it seem like they are. In the end it really doesn’t matter — if they don’t have a reasonable chance of success, we’re better off asking people to spend their time productively.
Student lending reform has a ticking clock. It needs to be passed by mid-April. And there are serious consequences for millions of students if it isn’t.
Jane, It’s refreshing how well informed are, impassioned you remain & how elequently you communicate the HCR issue. What about asking for an up/down vote on the Dorgan Amendment? It’s unfathomable that one Democrat would have the gall to vote no on this if it’s presented as a single issue.
A small group of pundits appear to have misled themselves into believing that the opinions they hold, which echo those of a self-interested DC political class, are widely reflective by the public.
I wasn’t always a fan, but over the months of this fight, I have come to appreciate your tough, smart, and principled actions.
I trust Jane, and that is alot more than I can say for many liberal and progressive bloggers, pundits and democratic establishment coporatists.
Thanks Teddy, your support has been unwavering and so important throughout.
I just found this and added it. I made it on June 27, when Aravosis and I were in Sweden:
http://www.youtube.com/v/Utg0xRsNF34&hl=en_US&fs=1&
We thought it would be a short campaign. Hah. But it’s funny to watch because we’re still saying exactly the same thing we were then.
I would very much like to see that happen. But again, it only got 51 votes in the Senate, and according to Jon Walker it wouldn’t pass the Byrd rule and be eligible for reconciliation. So until there’s a plan to surmount that somehow, I’m afraid the result would be the same.
Jane said if she had to do it over focusing on drug issues like the dorgan amendment would have been a top priority.
I agree wholeheartedly with your point about long term strategy and Jane’s efforts very much bear it out.
Triangulation and compromise is a short term tactic that may get you a win, but it involves giving up some of what you want (ie compromise). At some point, compromise becomes capitulation.
Having a reputation as a tough negotiator softens up the other side, even before the compromising starts. Witness what happened with Democratic pre-compromise from single-payer to public option.
If you consistently cave, not only do people ignore you, but you lose the ability to make a cogent case for what you want; by conceding you’ve provided validation for the opposing side. This is exactly what Greenwald has pointed out on the subject of Obama’s policy regarding torture and civilian trials for accused terrorists.
Excuse me, Jane, but the 2nd link seems to be missing from your 3rd paragraph.
(now, back to RTFP)
I should add that Jane and FDL on HCR are a most eloquent demonstration of this principle in action.
Thank goodness there is at least one blog out there that is willing to put principle first, above party. I just about died when I saw Kos, the very same person who said only a few months ago that the bill was shit and should be killed, advocate primarying Dennis Kucinich. Stupak (yeah, I know) put his principles first and he has been able to use his leverage to bend a woman some are calling the most powerful speaker in recent memory to his will. Imagine if the Dems had taken that attitude from the very beginning instead of just caving at the first whiff of centrist opposition.
Thanks very much for saying that.
Weirdly, even though I’d fight his agenda to my last breath, I respect Bart Stupak’s commitment to a principle he believes in. That’s what you’re supposed to do when you feel strongly about something.
Alhough I wouldn’t exactly be shocked if he suddenly backed down in exchange for some big payoff and it turned out he was just demagoguing abortion for personal gain. He is after all a politician.
But at least he would’ve plaid his hand well. I hope others with more worthwhile agendas are taking note of his methods, if not the substance. All we ever asked the progressives to do, quite consciously and specifically, was what Stupak did on June 30 — 7 days after we started our campaign.
OT:
‘Citizen fuckno’ noticed that over at Ratigan’s yesterday, that touch of a red sweater made you look stunning.
The position that many of us support – both on health care reform and on the need to hold Obama and Democrats accountable for reneging on their promises – isn’t some extreme lefty position.
Polls have shown repeatedly since late 2009 that over 40% of the base of the Democratic Party has little to no interest in voting in Nov.
Markos and others can spout all the arguments they want, but the facts remain that Democrats are going to have a tough time in 2010 and that it’s entirely their own fault for reneging on their promises.
Blaming progressives for it might give the sellouts some cover, but it accomplishes little else.
Meanwhile, we now have to fight the Democrats to make sure they don’t renege on student loan reform. If they do, should we support them anyway? I don’t think so.
Absolutely right, Jane.
Such bullying is the sales pitch for the “my way or the highway” policy dictate that’s coming down from Obama and Emanuel in the Executive Branch, via manipulation of the Party Obedience Branch, and its supposedly-democratic processes, by Reid and Pelosi. It epitomizes the abandonment of Congressional responsibility and self-governing independence that brought us to this dreadful pass in the first place – as Max Baucus, on behalf of and at the private behest of Obama, enabled by Reid, successfully managed to hijack the entire Congress, and was getting away with thwarting the majority will of his branch of government on this legislation until, amazingly, Massachusetts voters finally could and did put a stop to it.
Restarting the effort for real reform of the unregulated health care-for-profit system with fresh legislative proposals remains eminently possible today, given the large Democratic majorities in Congress, and no threat of a Presidential veto, if and when Congress finally reasserts its prerogative to publicly legislate as it sees fit, regardless of Party-power-serving pressure, and proceeds to study, write, and pass such proposals.
So long as Party powerbrokers in the White House – with whom so many in the media, and in Congress, are allied – continue to have free rein to throw their weight around on this and other subjects, implicitly or explicitly operating as though Congress simply doesn’t exist as an independent branch, so that the President instead can be allowed to simply dictate national policy for our nation – which is what the present “Senate” bill effectively amounts to – those allies aren’t likely to readily or soon acknowledge that we still have a functioning Legislative Branch of government that remains open for business, and fully capable of thinking for itself.
Thus the biggest challenge we seem to face, on multiple fronts, is forcing Members of Congress to buck the corrupt Party leadership and its funders, to do their own thinking and legislating, instead of cowering to the contemptible likes of Rahm Emanuel. But if and when the first powerful and courageous committee chair and his or her committee makes the first move to do just that on health care reform [is that why Pete Stark was replaced as new House Ways & Means Committee Chair after only one day..?], I think the dam may well break, and we might then finally see the Congress do some real, meaningful legislating on this issue that makes a positive difference in the lives of the American people, PhRMA and other corporate deals and uncalled-for interference from the White House be damned.
“But it was the difference between kicking a field goal from the 70 yard line vs. the 50 yard line. One might be possible — the other simply wasn’t.”
True
And one must contimually remind all the the 50 yard field Goal is a compromist on every occasion, lest they forget the 70 yard field goal was the objective.
Public Option Smublic Loption.
I want the same health care deal, pension, and everything else the precious elected few get, that they voted for themselves like their pay raises.
I want the Democrat Party to stop being afraid of its own shadow and get a spine.
Oh thank you. Always good to have positive wardrobe reinforcement. Esp. from Citizen Fuckno.
Jane, you continue to be the progressive who speaks for me on HCR. I support the FDL position and what you and the team have done and continue to do 100%.
I read a lot, watch a bit, and make up my own mind on a number of issues. FDL continues to be one of my first reads each day, and the place I count on to get reliably factual analysis. Among the public voices out there on HCR you continue to be the one that speaks to my position the clearest. As does Greenwald on civil liberties. Seeing you two team up recently was very encouraging and vindicated my conclusions immensely.
Keep it up.
I reluctantly agree with Jane; 60 made the pledge so hold them to it. This bill is a complete giveaway to insurers. 30 Million will be forced to buy private insurance whose rates will always go up adn there are no cost containment of any kind for the insurers. The DEMS WILL NOT revisit this. This is nothing more than a backdoor argument allowing ass covering for pols who wont vote for the PO. Tough shit. Get the goddamn thing done right with a PO or risk getting a major asswhooping in Nov.
Jon, I don’t mean to ask for a rehash, but isn’t there SOMETHING reasonable interpretation of “Dorgan” to excite Pelosi to bring it to a vote first, then then see if it holds up?
It makes sense why Obama doesn’t want to see it, but this would be such a slam dunk extraordinary win for Congressional Dems, it’s hard to let it go.
Has mandated auto insurance brought down auto insurance costs, and provided competition in that sector of insurance? No, it has not. But you can call around to different insurance companies to get almost the exact same quotes. They at one time called that collusion. That is what will happen with health insurance.
I remember way back to another election. The guy running for the Prez job won with a very simple slogan…it’s the economy stupid!
Pass whatever the heck they are going to pass, regardless how crappy it is, because at the end of the day it’s obvious, they don’t care what main street wants and never did. Get on with it. Now do something about jobs! Those without jobs cannot afford insurance, mandated or not.
Insurance companies are exempt from anti-trust legislation. Their monopolies are protected.
But I agree about the need to do something about jobs.
“President Obama met with ten House Democrats opposed to the health care bill. He did all he could to get their votes. He promised to campaign for them in their districts and when that didn’t work, he threatened to campaign for them in their districts.” –comedian Argus Hamilton
It is incredible to me that the Democrats think for even a moment that the mandate without a public option can be swallowed. The mandate itself is not something that is tolerable at all, without the PO.
This is what really sinks the bill for me, even though Howard Dean seems to think it is better than what we have. I just cannot fathom being FORCED to buy sucky insurance.
Jane, I am not sure where you stand on this, though I know you feel you are quite clear.
Are you saying the House should NOT pass the Senate bill? Even with some changes?
I also wonder if the reason “30 million more uninsured are covered under our bill” is because, well, they are forced to be covered. That seems easy. You pass a law saying everyone must buy insurance and, voila!, the uninsured are covered. Doesn’t really change health care.
This is why single payer is so much better. It actually does something.
Once you have this monster in place, single payer will be out of reach. People will get so angry with it, all attempts to do anything involving the government in health care will be a third rail.
You won’t get a transition to, you will get a transition away.
I’m not 100% sure drug re-importation would violated the Byrd rule it just seems likely. It does technically save money so there might be a way to get it through in some form.
Of course as I have stated before Joe Biden could go hardball and simply ignore the parliamentarian.
But anyway it gets back to what is a campaign that can win. Don’t want to whip up people to push for something that seems unlikely to happen for technical reasons.
After more than a year of vaccilation on health care by Obama, I’m ready for only a PO bill. After studying this bill it is apparent that the citizenry really gets jack shit for this pathetic excuse for a bill. Millions will be forced to buy insurance-be penalized by the IRS if they are not covered and will be at the whim of higher premiums that the bill doesnt even address. Personally, for Obama to come out the other day and think he successfully peed on the insurance industry as did most of the pundits, think again; a desperate last minute lurch to rally the populace to his cause and desperation! This is the equivalent of a light smack on the behind to an unruly child.
I think this bill does more damage, solidifying the DRUG-INSURANCE hell spawn whose lobbyists successfully arm twisted the no balls Congressmen. It is not a bill worth passing. No other country forces insurance on their people with accompanying penalties for non compliance anywhere in the world. Only in these here USSTATES do we have to screw over policy holders just so they can let the grotesque insurance-Pharma industry keep their filthy paws within the system. The people dont own the system, the insurance giants do.
But Jane, if their monopolies are protected, that would mean Obama and all the Dems that keep proclaiming that passing of the Senate bill are all liars. They say it will increase competition ;-)
I give up. Political fatigue. These rich assclowns aren’t going to listen to anybody but their corporate owners, regardless. We’ve seen marches, phone solicitations, donation drives, you name it and it hasn’t done a thing. Pretend war continues killing women and children, fake insurance reform still is more important everywhere than massive unemployment and people losing their houses. Cannot for the life of me figure out, why anyone legal or otherwise, would want to immigrate here.
Keep on keepin’ on, Jane. No retreat, no surrender. You are a beacon of integrity in a sea of ill-conceived compromise.
Last thing…….Perhaps I haven’t read enuf but what is Jane’s stance on Kucinich? Already they are attacking him as a Naderite. Takes guts for Jane to push the PO or die option……
Jane, I admire and support you completely. Don’t get talked down by these spineless dems. The reason we don’t have the public option is because they either are weak or didn’t really want it in the first place (see corporate campaign donation list).
I enjoy John Cole’s Balloon Juice blog a lot. But he spends a lot of time berating the efforts of Jane and FDL, seeing them as extremists or whatever. I don’t agree with him in the least.
The only way to get anything changed is to fight for it–effectively. You have lain out your ideas here, and they are found NOT wanting, Jane. Please don’t stop, even if the concern trolls or something less doesn’t quite agree with your methods.
Capitulation and compromise are a far cry different from long term planning and strategy. You don’t stop asking for what you need, just because you might not get it.
Ask for the moon, take what you get…Go JANE!! The democrats currently have a disease of people pleasing and capitulation. We need to stop giving in just because it’s going to make some folks angry.
Health care is a right. And I think this statement needs it’s own campaign.
Not only that Jane, but they’ve used the opposite “starter home” narrative that it will be continually improved over time. Either they’re going to keep working on it or they aren’t. Can’t have it both ways.
- Tom
Yeah:)
The accepted word is “Obamacare,” the accepted bullshit definition is “state-run health care that’s going to quadruple the deficit for our grandkids” and the culprits shoving all this down America’s throat are, officially (per constant corporate media spin), “the ultra-progressive left wing of the Democratic party.” When it all comes about, WE are going to need secret service protection from our infuriated fellow-citizens who are barely paying attention right now, who will rise up en masse when they find out what’s been done to us all. I see it already, at the small town newspaper blog where I live! Righties are leaving comments such as, “I’ve seen you around, and I want to run into you again when your damn president’s fascist bill gets forced down the throats of me and my children.”
If you think “WTF!” now, just y’all wait.
It’s not a “PO or die” option. It’s only necessary to have a public option if you’re mandating that people buy the unregulated product of a private monopoly. There are other ways to deal with health care reform than that. If your goal is bringing down costs, it isn’t even one of the better ways.
Jane, the “health care reform” is nonsense, and always has been nonsense. Ed on his radio show (I don’t watch the TV much) has switched to the “pass this because we can fix it later” view. Today on the Ed radio show, NorMan GoldMan was subbing. NorMan attacked the bill and support for it as delusional, wrong, and several other comments. He pointed out that he and Ed do not agree on the idea of passage. You would have been very taken with his analysis; much of it sounded like yours. I wonder if Ed will allow him back on now.
Thank you, Jane!! I was just getting ready to buy postcards and stamps to help whip the Senate. I knew I was probably spinning my wheels but didn’t want to abandon all hope for Public Option without a fight.
Donated the money to the Student Loan fight instead.
If one is to believe that the Dems will “fix it later” one has to also believe that FISA will be re-visited, NAFTA will be re-visited, war criminals will be prosecuted and not excused, “Card Check” will pass, there will be a roll back on rich folk tax breaks and the moon will rise in the west.
Lead on Jane, when your right your right and its past time that somebody on the Progressive side showed some spine. It’s sad that we’ve come to this place but so be it.
Kos is getting a well deserved and near unanimous drubbing over at Rawstory, – que the ‘Dean scream’.
Jane represents the Energized Left the Left who if we believed in this Healthcare Bill would walk a mile in snow to vote. We are the Dems answer to the GOP’s 20%ers. Its funny the GOP’s 20%ers lie and are uninformed by their leaders who encourage their delusions.
We are discouraged from the fact that National HealthCare costs less and saves more lives than even the Public Option by our leaders who lie to us.
The GOP likes to think they are Rebels Hah!
What do lobbyists do to Pols who take their cash and then betray them?
That and they can’t read the polls and have no business calling themselves political experts on tv.
“It’s only necessary to have a public option if you’re mandating that people buy the unregulated product of a private monopoly.There are other ways to deal with health care reform than that.”
I’m sure the single payer is a superior plan as an example, if that was what you are possibly referring to. What I loathe is this drum beat ranting about the cost savings currently projected but on the backs of 33 million with scant mention of the mandatory compliance
imposed on us. The penalties etc; This isnt even explored on rinky dink cable and the networks for the most part except on ED,Olbermann and Maddow, or at the least passively referred to elsewhere. Casual observation. I’m sure the administration wants to steer the hell away from defending this aspect of the bill.
Well, this is good news. I would hate to see this POS passed. It may feel pragmatic in the, “look, we passed something called health care reform”, but there is absolutely nothing pragmatic about handing over millions of dollars to the private insurers for something the feds can do better and cheaper. I would argue the Dem’s have never been serious about using health care as a winning issue because if they were they would have been campaigning on expanding Medicare since it was first enacted, but there is no donor constituency in that, I suppose. I disagree that the “PO” was ever more doable than a Medicare expansion. If a “public option” were doable, expanding Medicare was more so. In the end, presidential leadership could have garnered either.
It’s funny, because the Democrats all seem to agree forking over money to the student loan corps rather than doing direct student lending is a wasteful policy. This is precisely how they want to treat health care.
Jane, a question, my sister and her husband make a good middle class income, however, their old students loans and my sister’s new law school loans, which they have yet to make enough to pay on, and have deferred and deferred, are a disaster for them. They can’t buy a house because of the debt. Interest has accrued. They’ll be paying these things off until they retire. Is anything going to be done to help people with current student loan debt?
Jane, it is great to see you continuing to stand up for the voice of reason. A “Democratic win” with a corrupt policy does no good for the American people, or long-term (or short-term?) for the Democratic party, and I feel sold out by the majority of the blogosphere. It is not clear how to get Congress to pass legislation designed for the benefit of the American people, but it is clear that standing up and telling them NO when they aren’t is the correct first step.
I’ve designed a health care plan that saves $20-40 million a year through voluntary incentives with premiums and plan designs. It is very possible to make lower cost health plans that are popular, and it is clear that the current plan makes no real efforts on that front. There is no doubt that it will make our nation poorer.
I first started reading you religiously a good 5 years ago when you were more willing to call a spade a spade than anyone else in the blogosphere. When actions deserved foul language, you gave them some when all anyone else would do is complain. Your consistent persistent advocacy shows both your honesty and your commitment to what you have said over those 5 years. Thanks for all you do, and double thanks for sticking with it even when everyone else seems to be giving up. Finally, you are a better source of the actual process and why the way things are than anyone else- thanks for keeping us informed.
Kill the Bill and Stop the Swaps!
September 9, 2009
REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT TO A JOINT SESSION OF CONGRESS ON HEALTH CARE
U.S. Capitol
Washington, D.C.
“I am not the first President to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last.”
Sometimes one has to wonder at the change of heart of some of the more successful blog owners. Josh has changed, Markos has changed. Even Erik the Red changed. Many have. For some perhaps it is money and their ability to live off the beltway trough has changed their minds when it comes to poor people that deserve a chance to have lives. People that were never poor before are finding out what a depression is all about. Others are getting rich because of it. Erik bolted from the red hoard. Our moderate democrats have moved to the right far enough to be called Baucus or Nelson democrats.
But to fundamentally change their minds because the person in power changes his mind, and then try to sell shit in a sack as though it were gold, is a clear indicator that they have been paid to change their tune, or they have suddenly abandoned 1/4th of Americans to giving away 90% of their income to organized crime syndicates that have purchased the idea that is America.
How much money did you take folks? What caused you to abandon your fellow man to the gutter? Time to show a little sunlight on the corruption you seem to have taken directly to heart, and potentially, pocket.
Please continue Jane, this is the state of the art. We thank you.
Thanks Jane. This is the most sensible thing I’ve read about HCR in weeks. Put your effort into something doable. This battle is over.
Please don’t anyone be dismissive or forgetful of the bitchy, shrill, sneering fraternity president Marcus Molitsus. What magic ring exempts kos from incinerating while he stands so close to this fire, doing all the damage he can, herding his designated share of the cattle in the preapproved direction?
School cafeteria lunch table royalty, I am amazed at how this works on grownups.
Molitsus is a public face. He eats it up, clearly; he’s worked hard to get to caucus right on tv with other, bigger lunch table earls, so this is no slamming of another blog. This is discussion of who we should not forget to fully recognize in this fight.
The biggest god-damner of Kucinich on tv, seen by the most democrats, is Marcus Mole-itsus. Don’t lets let anyone like him off.
Thanks for the lucid exposition of goals, strategy and tactics. I join the others in my admiration for your content and style.
I think you lay out a most reasonable course for the traditional Democrats. They are just tinkering now and some kind of insurance mandate will or will not pass.. If it passes it won’t work and there will be more chaos. If it doesn’t there will be more chaos.
I have always felt this was more about an attack on and privatizing our Medicare and our current public programs than pressing to create more.
I agree wholeheartily with this.
No one is ever going to take us (the FDL community) or Progressives overall untill they learn that there is a consequence for reneging on promises to us. Until we prove we’re willing to put our foot down.
I understand the argument for switchign to student leanding reform, and as someone with a good 30 grand in student loans trust me I want it just as badly.
But I worry that if by switchign our focus from healthcare we’re not doing the broader FDL faction a disservice. As healthcare is the big talking point issue right now, we get ourselves more leverage, more press, and as a result more power by staying on it. SO that next time around on whatever issue is next, they understand that fucking with us does not end well.
You know things have gone bad when the arguments get this dumb, i.e., “We’ll fix it later,” “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good,” “Passing this sucker will save the Dems politically,” “If the bill doesn’t pass, you’ll be personally responsible for all the people who die,” and other favorites. Do the Obama Democrats have to add insult to injury (rhetorical question)?
That Obama poison sure works fast. One year into his Presidency, and I wince when I hear Democratic leaders talk.
Oh hell, Democrat leaders. There, I’ve said it.
Who the Hell’s a Moderate?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbyKBevTjVY
Sure MSM defends Markos. He is a corporatist. They love him!
there lies your ‘fix it later’ meme exposed as smoldering offal.
Thanks Jane! FDL is like an oasis in the internet for progressives. Always enjoy coming here. Keep up the good work.
Obama is determined to permanently turn us into a nation of corporate serfs.
I’m not so sure Kos is a Corporatist yet, but he’s definitely been given an honorary membership ( dependent on his good behavior of course) to the Village thats for sure.
He’s not a fellow traveler of any kind. But so what if he was? I call for an instant ban on the concept of “not supposed to”, if it exists.
We and he ain’t co-respected equals. We ARE supposed to criticize.
Too many rules of supposed “civility” in this fight, with nobody obeying except US. They write em, we follow em? No, no more!
Though I haven’t engaged much publicly on the health care fight, I totally support the efforts of FDL on this. Once again, Jane, you are right. I trust your political instincts on this, and if we need to whip on the Senate bill, I know you’ll do it without flinching.
Kos’s flip is pathetic. But then, I’ve never seen him as a great political thinker anyway, but someone with an impressionistic view of politics, who has built a power base of sorts at Daily Kos, and bends to the needs of party over principle. His attempt to scapegoat Kucinich is deplorable, as well. You might as well advertise: we don’t want anyone with convictions in our new version of the Democratic Party. Call it the “new pragmatism” (irony alert).
Just because Markos’s position is to vote for the bill without a PO and call Kucinich on it, as well as his appearances on cable- and Janes’ as well- do not believe he has turned redcoat. He is dead on with so many issues and is unabashed about sticking it to corporate US and hypocritical politicoes. If you have bothered to read KOS, there are some real wing tip lefties within the Kos ranks who have given him shit about it. I know, you’ll not approve of him anyway, but he has been a catalyst on the real side of the left as has been Jane.
Now, Jane on the other hand is the preferred method of dealing with these recalcitrant pricks who wont have a PO.
CarlyCorday,just dont throw out bombs without backing it up.
Funniest, scariest, WTF-est one I’ve seen, and I saw it here (a comment): “Not passing this will virtually gurantee a President Sarah Palin in 2012…are we sure we want that?”
*lunatic giggles,
tearing hair out of head in tufts*
Jane,
Thanks for displaying some principles.
Watching obama roll up his sleeves and do his stand-up schtick earlier in the week made me want to chuck it was so rank with hypocrisy:
1. He characterized himself as a political outsider after the corporate whore made backroom deals with the pharmas and the hospitals and jettisoned his campaign promises for the public option, re-importation of drugs and using the government’s leverage to negotiate lower prices with the pharmaceutical industry.
2. He made an emotional appeal to save sick people when the corporate call boy set the parameters of the health care bill such that little of this will go into effect until 2014. What about the people that will die waiting for this health care bill to go into effect? They are just fodder for him to get his win for his big donors in the health care industry before the people get a chance to judge him by his corporate empowering bill.
3. He pressured congress to pass a bill that the 2/3rds of the American people despise … FOR THE PEOPLE’S BENEFIT … of course.
4. He used the health care insurance industry’s rate increases for a reason to pass a bill that gives them all of our business with the IRS as their enforcer. Why would the health insurance companies raise their rates so much RIGHT NOW when this bill is being considered if they are against this bill that obama is selling as an attack on them? BECAUSE THEY WANT THE BILL TO HAPPEN … it captures tens of millions of customers for them.
5. He had the gall to lecture congress that it “owes the people a final up or down vote on health care” … what about an up-and-down vote for the public option that 2/3rds of the American people want? That’s not owed to us, huh? All he cares about is what he owes to his corporate donors.
And mind you that he wants to end the debate as soon as possible as pressure builds to include a public option becoz the liar wants no part of it and has been the health insurance companies’ biggest ally in making sure that we don’t get what 2/3rds of us want.
Z
If I thought there was anything we could be doing on health care right now I would, but it’s like being in the middle of a blast zone. Everything that’s happening is outside our control, and as they say, when your opponent is in the process of unraveling, don’t stop them.
I also don’t want to mislead people and make them think things are possible when they aren’t.
We are preparing for both a whip count fight (if necessary) and a post-health care bill period, but for now, I think it’s best to see how things unwind.
REALLY. Couldn’t agree with you more. I think I’ll save this …..
I’m not throwing out bombs, I’m posting my opinion as a comment at a blog, please don’t hyperbolize that. Yes, you’re so right, I’ve utterly failed to “back up” my criticism of your guy. He can say what he wishes to an audience of millions, affecting a national/world crisis with his easy access to all ears, and any gnat who criticizes better back it up with an essay? No…I dun think so. That would be redundant–but what a neat system for the talking ones!
Next time, if it’s in response to you, jaredmaddox, I’ll copy/paste the transcript of what your man said as backup. Very little of what I posted here was to you anyway. Your comment was the porch off which I stepped to make my own comment about kos, barely related to yours. Not related at all, I can see now.
Yes, kos should be thrilled with his performance today: he is finally considered a serious participant in the discourse, having completed the traditional Village rite of passage, the hippie-punch.
Seriously, though, I’m much less inclined to visit dailykos.com after viewing that Countdown video. Given all the corrupt corporatists infesting our legislature, Markos decides to target a true progressive for a primary challenge, the one congressperson who’s been right about nearly every single issue? Indefensible!
I’m way late but must comment re “she certainly seems like the linchpin of a disaffected left” Jane ,your position reflects MANY MORE people than ‘a disaffected left’. As a 63 yr.old independent voter, I can assure whomever needs it that mandates w/o a public option simply is not seen by people (and I talk to a lot of people including those who characterize themselves as ‘conservatives’ or ‘tea partiers’)as a ‘good idea’.
In fact, that the media chooses to portray this as a ‘lefty’ issue is just pissing people off more ,especially those who already feel they are being disregarded.
“Those who think that the Senate health care bill should pass because the Democrats need a political “victory” don’t seem to understand that they are the ones who actually represent the teeninest, tiniest proportion of the country imaginable.” ; YUP !
Couldnt care less if my post is related to yours or not; you made the beef. I can respond to you or anyone else. By the way. You are really defensive.
NOTE: last 5 lines.
Let’s be generous and grant that there are some people on the left, let’s call them the faint of heart, that are willing to give in on the PO and by so doing gratuitously and knowingly divert more public money to private insurers. In exchage for this those same insurers are left unfettered except unable to carry out egregious practices. They say they will make this Faustian deal because later Mr. Faust will agree to undo himself.
We are distinguishing these faint hearts from the blatant corporate whores a la Obama and the “liberal” media such as O’Donell, that Kos Markos guy and whoever else now are beside themselves that Kucinich will not prostrate himself and bend over like they are so accustomed to willingly do.
The absurdity of this devilish deal is that if these faint of heart folks were sincere in claiming that they are giving in to the enemies of change for the sake of the greater good, then they would logically be working to unseat these enemies of change. Meaning that they would now be energenically dedicated to unseating Obama and all those Democrats that currently oppose the PO. Otherwise the future part of the bargain that the PO will be included is impossible if the same current opponents to the PO stay in place.
The truth is that these faint hearted folks of the left, best typified by that woman from Salon, are capitualting to private insurers because capitulation is what is their nature to do. These folks are asea and rudderless and haven’t a clue what they stand for.
And to Jared’s several posts: Amen, but …
The Mandate is the LONG-TERM KILLER! A mandate makes a bill not just bad, but perniciously will be a game-changer, ensuring that no real fixes will be done in the foreseeable future.
You cannot say “a madate is okay if there’s also a public option,” because the way things are fixed, no robust public option will be passed. It will be puny, hobbled by Rube-Goldberg traps, and designed to fail. As just one example: Remember Obama saying in campaign that anyone who wanted the public option could get it? Not now, even under the best of scenarios, in which it would be offered only to the currently uninsured.
For this reason, I consider the Senate bill, even with a PO to be absolutely dangerous to the future of the country. Kill it, please!
I don’t know about the specifics, but I agree with the philosophy. There are plenty of things to be working on.
I’ve been assuming that they haven’t called a vote for the reasons you state, Jane, but that they think they might once they’ve found enough Lynn Woolseys and Eric Massas whom they can either, ahem, persuade or move out of the way. How that will go is what I mean by “specifics”.
As for the $430K, I think it was a good idea. It showed the people who signed that letter that we were willing to support them. Apparently, many of them didn’t think that was enough. That’s a lesson to take into the next battle.
Ms. Hamsher, just gotta say I LOVE your, and Jon’s, and David’s ‘wrap up’s’ and ‘updates’ of the big picture such as the style of the one in this thread.
What a refreshing and lovely look back, to present, and to future.
Thanks for clarifying the obvious for those unwilling to face the facts, then, and now, and tomorrow!
I hope the Senate/Obama bill is killed, and election pressure drives the Congress and WH further left, back somewhere to the center that will help we the people, not the corporations.
To Paraphrase Norske: “Pass the Reisling and make every pour count, this aint over yet.”
Of course they know what they stand for: they stand for winning. Even if it means calling losing – winning. They want to be able to celebrate after all this hard work (bending over is hard on the old lumbago, not to mention other parts).
FWIW, Markos was once on FDL as a guest. I nailed him on his postion that there weren’t any problems with electronic voting machines and he took umbrage even though such was his position ; much later he had to admit to there actually being problems.
Markos needs to listen to Bowie and the lyrics.
I’m still reeling from the broken promises on the PO that Obama and Co., suddenly deny making. We should now hold his feet in the fire because I feel cheated!!, along with it seems everyone else on this blog. The man placed his career on it and he and Gibbs now claim it wasn’t in stone along with other evasions. I remember when the administration began de-empasizing the PO and that Obama never really implied he was all for it. Then OLBERMANN quickly shot that down with a video of OBAMA exalting the PO at multiple campaign stops.
It’s a valid point Jane and I see what you’re saying.
I just worry about people getting the wrong idea of Progressive from Kos.
And thanks for replying to my horribly spelled post..was rushing at work when I posted.
Jane, I’ve been one of the more strident voices around here arguing that the system is so rigged and broken that only extra-systemic tactics hold any hope of effecting any meaningful change, and I get some flak from the Moderators and from those who still believe in the electoral and legislative process, despite the recent historical record.
But I just want to say, even though we seem to differ in our philosophical approach to getting our common goals met, I have the greatest admiration for your knowledge and the spirited and principled way in which you play the game within the system. If anyone can get results within the system, I think it would be someone like you. You are a hero and a great leader in my book. And I love you.
I applaud you for your courage and convictions Ms. Hamsher. It is not easy to stand against the tide and it is rare to see a progressive leader do this. You and DK’s opposition to this bill should be a warning to the dems and progressives who are more interested in Obama saving face than they are in implementing good policy. This is a horrible bill and if it passes the democrats will surely pay the price for passing it. Forcing average Americans to purchase private insurance under threat of IRS prosecution is a bad idea and it illustrates how out of touch the democrats in DC and the progressive elites are with the rest of the country. Americans dont like to be forced to do anything, that is just who we are, it is part of what makes us Americans, and forcing us into the lions den without any real competition or price limits will be a democratic party killer once the policies are implemented. The question I have for Obama is if the insurance companies are so evil then why are you forcing us to be their customers? I wld think progressives like Markos wld be asking the same thing instead of threatening DK but I guess the allure of access means more than conviction and courage. Stay strong Jane we are right behind you.
Moveon.org is voting on whether or not to support President Obama’s health care proposal (sans public option). I’ll be interested in the results.
Go Jane Go.
This is that rarest of modern liberal things – a principled stand for something really obvious. The essential health care problem is unregulated private health insurance. The Obama solution is to force people to buy (or have our government buy) health insurance from the companies that are the essential problem. This is wacked. Don’t be wacked. Support the public option (since we can’t “pragmatically” get single payer).
Dear Jane,
Here is a copy of a letter i just sent to my local U.S. Senator Bill Nelson, and to say how much you are Loved, in a most Honorable and Patriotic way, of course.
Honorable Senator Nelson,
I just learned that the Honorable Senator has signed the Letter to call for the “Public Option”
All I have to say is: ETERNALLY MOST HIGH GOD BLESS U.S. SENATOR BILL NELSON, and I am very proud to have Voted for, and supported your Candidacy for U.S. Senator from Florida. I signed my name to the letter also, on the Firedoglake web site. I feel a strong affection for Jane Hamshire for her outstanding Citizenship, and for the fact that She is also a cancer survivor, and although I don’t know (blank) about what a “progressive” is, I respect Her “eternal vigilance” and appreciate how much Her efforts strengthen our Democracy. I agree with Her advice on (what should be a “no-brainer) the fundamentals of what Health Care Reform should be:
1) Public Option
2) Available Nation Wide
3) Available from Day ONE
4) Answerable to the U.S. Congress and the VOTERS
The Senator now stands shoulder to shoulder with T.R. on Health Care Reform in my book.
Sincerely,
A.J. Max Cherbonneaux
I like it. thx
You know what occurs to me is how absolulety bankrupt the Democrats are, not only that but how abjectly cowardly.
There are one hears something like 192 or so Housemembers who will vote no on the question of passing the current Senate health bill. And of all those people there is exactly one, Kucinich with the balls to go on TV and publicly say “this bill sucks and it sucks because pirating private insurers are left to pillage the population”. And moreover he levels the claim against Obama.
For this of course he is pilloried by the hyenas in the media that come instantly with their tongues wagging to lick Obama’s ass. And scoff at Kucinich for being a heretic.
I say we give kucinich our support and make him a credible counter force to Obama. Let’s see who flinches first. We should start now to support Kucinich for President there is no question this man will not be cowed.
He also has a great looking wife.
I should amend the above by referring to the Democrats among those 192 Housemembers that oppose the Senate bill. No amendment re their abject cowardliness.
So Jane, how about the Full Court Press? Your talking big here, and I appreciate that. But are you bluffing or aren’t you? Will healthcare be a fond memory in 2012 and you’ll have other fish to fry? After all, at one point you were talking about opposing anything that didn’t have a “robust” public option. Then any sorry excuse for a public option was good enough, and you didn’t give a damn about Stupak or Nelson amendments being part of it. Now you’re talking tough again, and the abortion restrictions are big again because they give you leverage.
Endorse the Full Court Press ( http://www.thefullcourtpress.org )– 435 Democratic congressional primaries in 2012 — and we’ll know you mean business. Because you know it’s no longer a matter of what if they … They’ve done it and they’re going to do it again. When if ever does the “or else” kick in?
Thanks. Actually, Obama flatly lied and flatly denied that he was ever for P.O. (Obama’s denial wasn’t as wishy-washy as you seem to imply.) Then Olbermann wiped him out with those video clips, as you rightly point out. That was one of the best Olbermann moments since his addresses to GWB back in the day.
I also want to second the points made by robbep@92 – We Americans will rebel at being told to buy junk private insurance; our natural libertarian streak will not permit it. And this will indeed be electoral death for the Dems, who are just completely too stupid and blind to understand this. Just like 1994.
The ED show does not agree with Jane’s take. That is for sure. The clip of Ed telling the Dems to play nice and pass the bill is not up yet.
I called my rep the evil Carney, LOL and told him I did not support ANY healthcare without a public option. He is sitting on the fence right now.
Markos reminded me of the idealogic 40′s pro soviets whose mantras were
“it’s not the means it’s the end” or something alike.
These are die hard rigid idealogical wingers whether left or right that are unable to stand apart and look at the realities that represent independent behavior. As long as their side wins even if they’re wrong, no matter. Wingnuts.
Markos was disgusting. A little Stalin. We are being asked to buy insurance that enriches the insurance monopoly without any choice offered to give us relief which this bill does not possess.
Drug and Insurance stocks are zooming and drug prices and premiums are rising. The multiple attacks from House and Senate on women’s rights is unsupportable.
That Markos and other democrats expect women to give it up for a lousy bill is loony. And immoral. The Stupak and Nelson bills hurt working poor women in particular, but any discrimination against women is outrageously immoral and a certain political loser for the democrats. They have all from Obama,Pelosi, and Reid and the 64 who voted for the House bill denigrated and disrepected women and their right to self determination,equal protection, and settled law in Griswald, & RoevWade.
Using women as political barter on the 99th anniversary and celebration of International Women’s Day is an ironic message. We are being shafted by our own party because they have become politically ruthless.
How different are they and conservadem Obama from the Republicans?
I’ve had issues with him in the past, but not on this.
I tend to believe that it is a tactical mistake to ever be passive against a foe that never rests. If we stand still we already lose ground.
I think we have more than enough support among the realists in the left to carry out initiatives at the state level to challenge corporate entitlemnets bestowed by the federal government.
I think we should be hard at work devising ways to wrench back power away not only from insurers by passing publicly financed state health insurance schemes. But also state laws that limit Banks from usury and other corporations from economic abuse.
I think further that if in fact the HCR effort promoted by Obama fails that would indeed be a godsend. But I do not feel that the issue will go away, I think that as fees, copays, co-insurance and premiums become evermore unsustainable the public will demand real fundamntal solutions year after year until the problem is solved. And if the Congress believes or merely pretends to believe and say otherwise, they are very much mistaken.
I should not be surprised by this very astute contingency planning.
Keep up all the great work, what a great thread.
Thanks, Boo. Appreciate your support.
Jane – you are an unwitting friend of the insurance industry. Germany covers everyone and has no public option – so does Holland, Japan and Switzerland among others. How do they do it? They regulate. You should be fighting for strong regulation but instead you are fighting Democrats and the Republican Party thanks you.
Hey stranger. Nice to connect, if even just for a brief moment.
I do not think that the US is as good at enforcing regulation as these other countries. See Banking & Finance.
(I’m on a lame connection so I’ll bet others will have pointed this out before me…?
And, to Jane, I will add that I have found your work on this issue a thing to behold.)
Not by a long shot. This friendly fire has been orchestrated and O’Donell, Schultz and no doubt that worm Lanny Davis will all be paraded out like caricature liberals waxing piously about how we must all think of Obama’s career. Apparently it is lost on these clowns that Obama’s career never got off the ground.
It is telling that after a year they still speak of Obama in the yet to be. He has so much potential greatness they claim. Well he better get started with all this potential. We all wait with bated breath.
One thing is clear. Anyone opposed to the Democratic corporate party line is directly in the line of fire.
If I didn’t already know better, I’d think you were new to these parts of greater blogtopia.
So instead I have to ask…have you not been reading FDL recently?
think credit card regulation
…OSHA, coal mines…
Genius, you ommited Taiwan which after scouring the world for a way to set up their health care financing system they settled on our very own Medicare model to emulate.
Oh well.
Right, here in Germany we have not 1 “public option”, but rather 200 or so, that are mandatory for most employees and insure around 85% of the total population.
Their premiums are set directly by the Federal Government.
As always, Jane, I applaud your efforts, and I am with you. Life on the left would seem so hopeless without your shining example.
Take that, Kos, MSM, congressional and WH betrayers of the American public!
You WH pretenders, if you want to know how multi-dimensional chess is played, watch Jane!
this is not multi-dimensional chess it is pure raw politics 101. No super clever triple compromise followed by a back stab.
You set your price for a vote and stick to it.
Damn Jane, I love you! I’m a big swinging southern white bred progressive. I have lost two jobs in the past year because I stated that I believed in the progressive cause, and especially a strong public option. I got back at one of my employers by testifying against him in court for his ex-wife(my ex-girlfriend after being fired) and I got back at the other by just leaving because the combined pharisee’s IQ there was 79, about average for the Deep South. I take out teabag woman all the time and there so stupid when they believe I am going to call them back. I love strong progressive woman, keep up the good work Jane.
P.S. I already have another job because you can’t keep good from rising. Jesus is progressive. I love y’all.
Traitorous Lynn Woolsey now on Countdown with equally traitorous Lawrence O’Donnell. [And they've got "Progressive Caucus Co-Chair" under her picture.]
I’ve turned down the sound; can’t stand to listen to either of them.
Edit: apparently Obama’s off to a fund-raiser for Claire McCaskell.
I’m just waiting for the vastly superior “Real Housewives of Orange County.”
That 27 June youtube makes me ill.
What a COMPLETE waste of space, COMPLETE waste of time, COMPLETE waste of effort, COMPLETE waste of money 95% of the Democratic party “leaders” are –
well, unless you’re 1 of the living large aristo-fascists whose opponents are political pathetics or just sell outs.
rmm.
Yes, Jon, I know, that part was just a schoolyard n’yah n’yah. Best thing I could come up with in the spur of the moment. Next time it’ll be better, promise!
I’m with you, Jane. It was sad to see Ed Schultz tonight begging for the bill to get passed, but I’m sick of the corporate enabling. And Kos wants to “primary” Kucinich? Give me a f*cking break.
Easter’s approaching, so you could include belief in the Easter Bunny as well.
I am against you.
What you’re doing is wrongheaded, terrible, and disastrous. I don’t know when youall tuned into this healthcare rollercoaster, but it seems you came in a day late and a dollar short. It took year and three months to get to where we are now. What do you imagine happens to this country if you try and destroy this bill?
1. You play into the fascist Republicans hands. If I have to be the only one to tell you this, fine, THEY LOVE IT.
2. You guarantee that HCR is dead forever, period. No public option, no nothing. Dead.
3. You must imagine, somehow, that if this bill fails, no problem, they start all over- just what the Rs all wanted- and it’ll somehow be easy, because now a public option will just breeze through congress in no time, and be passed by majority vote, easy easy. NO. It won’t happen. If it was ever easy, it would have been done last August. Or September. Or December.
This is the reason liberals can’t govern in this country. Do you see Republicans bashing their own legislation when it’s not good enough? No. They line up and vote. They listen to the leader. They march lockstep.
I do not agree with doing this, but guess what? If you don’t do it as a political party, YOU LOSE. You lose big. Because you can’t govern, if you refuse to pass anything. What ever fantasy world you’re all living in, I want to be there to, I really do. But it’s no fantasy down here. People are dying without insurance. This stupid, lousy bill will at least be a first step to something- enough of the congressmen and senators seem to think it will, and they know better than I do. I do not want it going down in flames and the country with it, back into the claws of the Republican party.
I haven’t been able to watch Ed Schultz lately or Rachel Maddow for a while now. Very disappointing.
Thanks for your leadership, Jane. It is appreciated.
We are also the ones who donated, who ran phone banks, who canvassed, who did GOTV — and, I’m betting, also the ones who stayed home in MA, all 800,000 of us.
For some squirrelly reason I’ve been commenting over @ HuffPo a lot. I’m amazed at how much folks there quote the OFA/DNC lines about the need to “pass this bill.” When I write a list of “are you really in favor of . . ” people accuse me of spouting “talking points” and ask where I got them. They can’t believe it’s just from READING [FDL] and becoming educated about the provisions of the bill [hard as they may be, at times to follow].
I also noted at a MoveOn poll that all the “pro” reasons were vague, “we’ve got to do it now or it will never be done” stuff, rather than fact-based arguments [as the "con" ones were]. I observed that the last couple of times we were faced with a “we’ve gotta do it now” situation did NOT turn out so well: TARP and Iraq. And the history of “pass it now, we’ll fix it later” [NAFTA, Patriot Act] is none too sterling either.
Anyway, thank you Jane, for all you do, and especially for being honest, for being “fact-based,” and for articulating principles and sticking to them. The Democrats could learn a LOT from you. [And they'd be doing a lot better if they did.]
Edit: re kevincharlottenc@ 125 above — res ipsa loquitor [the thing speaks for itself].
Ditto.
And Lawrence O’Donnell on Keith’s show has been criminal.
Yea, I was trying to figure out how a person responds to something like that and, well, there you go, Mauimom. I mean, you can’t just let it stand there without saying something.
Actually, the Republicans want the Dems to pass this gift to the insurance companies and PhRMA, because it’s electoral kryptonite for Democrats.
I responded thus.
But I doubt very much Kevin will be back to reply. He seems to be much more interested in being huffy than opening himself up to admit that he’s wrong.
Well, yes, a correct response. But I have to say a bit intellectual for the target. Not to pile on or anything. :)
Have you read the FDL posts from over a year ago that predicted we would be exactly where we are today?
I’m with Jane and FDL all the way on this. I’ve long respected Kos and still do, but he’s wrong on this.
Here’s the deal. My father is an orthopedic surgeon and myself a former medical student. I have been following the system through my Dad and my personal experience for 30 years now. My dad always said this day would come. The system is unraveling right now before your eyes. There is no way the system is going to make it, so why should we bail out the parasitic for PROFIT health insurers. This bill has absolutely no cost control in it and once the fascists take congressional power this fall kiss any m*therf*cking fixes good bye. And why in the hell can’t our [Edited by Mod] representatives craft a good bill the first time. The democrats are f*cking p*ssies. I rather die than support this bill and yes I have no insurance because I don’t trust the m*therf*ckers to honer any major claim. I rather die on youtube before supporting this bill. If you think not passing this fascist health reform right now dooms us foreever, then you are the one living in fantasyland. Time is our greatest friend, friend, and come 2013 when the system has totally imploded because of peak oil then and only then will we finally get real healthcare reform. It’s called Medicare-for-All and this will pass in 2013 which is 1 year before this f*cking fascist bill kicks in. No Siree, stick a fork in the healthcare system and f*ck this fascist bill.
Deepest apologies. It has nothing to do with FDL. I continue to read and contribute a little something each month (far too little). For a variety of reasons, I am just not able to be in the comments as much.
You and me both…but it’s still nice to see your monicker when you do get a moment to pop in.
Be well.
“Markos reminded me of the idealogic 40’s pro soviets whose mantras were
“it’s not the means it’s the end” or something alike.”
I agree that they are missing the point…the means are the ends!
“Using women as political barter on the 99th anniversary and celebration of International Women’s Day is an ironic message.”
I usually appreciate irony, except when it is morphed into hypocrisy.
“How different are they and conservadem Obama from the Republicans?”
The difference between bad and worse? I’ve always refused to vote for the bad over the worse and I will not vote for Obama the next time around, but I will most certainly vote. Looks like it’s back to third party candidates for me. I only hope that Kucinich challenges him in the primaries.
With all undue respect, you’re answering an emotional response with an emotional homophobic reply…neither of which is really appropriate here.
It took a year and three months for the corporations to get what they wanted. So you blame who? The Hippies? So what is this? More Hippie punching? Jane said very clearly:
Stop the false representations. It started with Rahm, Markos jumped on the meme. You now spread the same Beltway propaganda. “Those lefties, as usual, messed things up.”
You falsely accuse the folks here of Killing the Bad Bill. It is self destructing as we all can see, and Jane mentions. But I myself would be delighted to kill the K-Street Insurance Subsidy Bill. Another reason to kill it is because YOU PEOPLE are using the issue of Health Care to help neo-cons with their “long war” against the “Left”.
It’s a pleasure to read you’re sticking to your principles, Jane. Not all in the blogosphere are, or had any to begin with.
I could give 2 cents what you think is appropriate. Lighten up buddy.
Apparently the mods do…perhaps you are the one who should lighten up, or man-up and admit when you are wrong.
If this bill doesn’t include a public option and eliminate restriction on abortion it’s a joke and a complete embarassment to the democratic party. If democrats can’t include those 2 items in this bill, with control of both houses and the executive, they should resign or go over to the other side of the aisle. I’m sick of these spineless democrats go progressive or go home!
I love lesbians.
no. (please share if you have them.) but i don’t expect 20/20 foresight so if you don’t it’s not a big deal.
Let me guess…some of your best friends?