During Wednesday’s health care address, President Obama said that the American people deserve a final up-or-down vote on health care reform:
So, no matter which approach you favor, I believe the United States Congress owes the American people a final vote on health care reform.
We have debated this issue thoroughly, not just for the past year but for decades. Reform has already passed the House with a majority. It has already passed the Senate with a supermajority of 60 votes. And now it deserves the same kind of up or down vote that was cast on welfare reform, that was cast on the Children’s Health Insurance Program, that was used for COBRA health coverage for the unemployed, and, by the way, for both Bush tax cuts — all of which had to pass Congress with nothing more than a simple majority.
It is hard to believe Obama actually feels that way, however, because that is not what he is really advocating.
The president is now pushing for the House Democrats to pass an unchanged Senate bill, with vague promises that some matter related to the budget would be fixed later by a majority vote in the Senate. It is pretty clear that House Democrats currently don’t have the votes to pass an unchanged Senate bill.
Of course, the House has already passed a health care reform bill, HR 3962, which everyone seems to have forgotten about, and technically doesn’t need to do another thing to see it become law. . . as long as the Senate passed that bill unchanged. If Obama really felt that health care reform deserved an up-or-down vote, he could ask Vice President Joe Biden, Harry Reid, and 48 Senate Democrats to use the “nuclear option” to change a few Senate rules regarding debate or budget reconciliation. After that, they could put the House health care bill on the floor, pass it unchanged with the constitutionally required simple majority, and Obama could sign it into law.
While I doubt this will happen, it is, technically, a wholly doable route to enacting health care reform. If Obama really believes health care reform deserves an up-or-down vote, he should be instructing Reid and Biden to use the tools at their disposal to actually give health care reform a final simple majority vote in the Senate.
If the House Democrats fail to get the votes to pass the unchanged Senate bill, expect a huge amount of blame to be directed solely at them for “killing health care reform.” But if/when that happens, it is important to remember that Senate Democrats deserve an equal or even greater amount of blame. If health care reform dies, it is also because 50 Senate Democrats decided that protecting the stupid byzantine rules of their chamber, which they are constantly complaining about, was more important than giving the House health care bill an up-or-down vote so that it could become law. If health care reform fails, remember that once again Democrats chose protecting Senate tradition over delivering on their promise.



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Some might be acting to preserve the byzantine rules of the senate, but my guess is leadership is acting at the direction of the White House to push the Senate bill because it is the one that incorporates all the backroom deals cut with special interests last year. So, Democrats are choosing to protect the administration’s cynical deals with PhRMA, AHIP, the Hospitals, 1199, et al. over delivering on their promise to help hardworking Americans afford quality health care.
Good idea, non-starter, unfortunately. I suspect what Dem leaders actually envision is passing the Senate bill then using sidecar reconciliation to make it even worse.
The entire HCR process has been an example of reverse alchemy, turning something precious into complete and utter shit.
My money is on them wanting House to pass the Senate bill and than Senate to do nothing on reconciliation leaving the House holding the bag.
It would be a great idea IF “Clarence” Obama cared an iota about effecting substantive change for the majority of the country. How much disdain can he have to so quickly dismiss the needs of the people who elected him and the visions he campaigned on? Shame on him, he’s a MUCH greater disgrace than “Chauncey” Bush.
remember that once again Democrats chose
protecting Senate tradition(___fill in the blank__) over delivering on their promise.No real need to get too specific, is there?
Yep.
Anyway it turns out though, the cat’s out of the bag-Obama and the Dem’s are corporate owned as much as the Republicans.
And ALL Americans seem to be figuring this out as things get worse as there are NO real job development plans and corporate giveaways continue unabated without real reforms or regulation controls being implemented.
Hear! Hear!
Haven’t you heard Jon? Rethuglicans say to get anything to pass now you need 70-80 votes! At the rate this idiocy is going, soon elections will reguire a super super majority just to get elected! Anything less than 80% and you start over again. When did the US become Rome The Sequel?
The Obama administration and the House and Senate Democrats want to pass “reform” legislation because this is an election year. The movement for real reform failed spectacularly last year when it became clear most of the Democrats and Republicans oppose real reform because their corporate sponsors and plutocratic friends lose money in real reform. What is going to happen this year is one of two things:
1) The better outcome: no legislation passes, the Democrats face an electoral bloodbath when the polls close.
2) The worse outcome: the Senate bill passes, instituting a ticking clock counting down to an abject tyranny wherein we are all required by law to give Aetna a monthly tithe, and the Democrats face an electoral bloodbath when the polls close.
Health care reform is dead. Progressivism in the Democratic Party lost. “Change we can believe in” turned out to be a hoax. Any sane populist member of the working population should want absolute legislative gridlock on all major issues, with the government agencies doing their regular, mundane work on unaltered budgets. It is bad for most people now when the national government officeholders attempt to address any major issue at hand. Every attempt has turned into special interests, corporations, and the plutocracy succeeding in deploying the Republicans, the Obama administration, and the majority of the Democrats in Congress against the working population of the country and on international issues against the world.
Shame on him, he’s a MUCH greater disgrace than “Chauncey” Bush.
well, that might be going a little too far, but at least W never pretended to *not* be a douchebag…
I am left to postulate only one plausible reason Obama was allowed to be the first black POTUS, he was the first truly electable black man who was willing to play ball. He has betrayed the base of his party, the Constitution he vowed to uphold and protect, and the black community, (and the GLB community, and the Latino…)
Jon Walker you are waaaaaay too logical for the WH & corrupt DEM leadership.
And anyone notice the Prez urging the houses of congress to pass his version of Senate bill…remember how the Prez couldn’t tell the houses of congress what to do ….ahhh the WH said it was a separation of power thing.
Ding! Thank you.
This is one long drawn out movie on healthcare. Too late Obama, the patient has died. Pull the plug. Jeebus. Dems are going to literally be thrashed in the next election. Sure hope progressives have an alternative to backing Dems. This is like being forced to watch circus clowns that have absolutely no talent.
A bit O/T but there is one very troubling aspect to Obama’s insistence that only the private health insurance business will be allowed to reimburse providers for health care related costs.
Since these insurers are a business what exactly happens with the money stream they receive, both from premiums and from investors in those companies. Presumably that aggregate pool of money is invested and the dividends go to its shareholders.
If so why should that be? Why do not the people that are paying premiums into that aggregate pool not also receive the dividends that accrue when their money is invested? What sense does it make to give someone your money for them to invest and you reap none of the reward?
It’s not like a bank where at least you get back interest on your deposits. With insurance you receive none of the dividends that is generated using your money.
“If health care reform fails, remember that once again Democrats chose protecting
Senate traditiontheir corporate paymasters over delivering on their promise.”I do wish you’d really pay attention to the effect of bribes
campaign contributionin the political processes, and give the bribes the weight in your writing the bribes are due.To do otherwise is to ignore cause and effect, and attribute it to some abstract notion of “Senate Tradition” and not money.
Ugh. We’ve fallen a long, long way when the House bill has to be our champion of reform. Sadly, that’s where we’re at.
Great plan, except for the part about there not being 50 votes in the Senate in support of the House bill. That’s been clear since it was passed, and nothing has changed for the better. With the Brown-MA election, the number of possible supporters has actually dropped. Calls to “just pass such and such” are easy to make; rounding up the votes is more difficult. Can you provide your tally of 50 Senators who would support this effort?
Also, should this approach of yours be interpreted as a willingness to accept the Stupak amendment? Through the Senate bill and a what looks like the probable content of a reconciliation sidecar, Stupak disappears. There will still be some sort of restrictive language on abortion coverage, but if the Senate terminology or something close to it is used then it will be no worse than the already-extant Hyde idiocy. How say you on that issue?
And per Obama’s “Organizing for America”, “I work with Organizing for America, was on a call with Mitch Stewart tonight, and he’s said “at this point, the public option is detrimental to our efforts.” Code for the public option being dead. Now I’m rooting for the public option, I hope that’s not the case, and I believe it will be in the bill before 2013, but I wanted you to hear it from the mouth of OFA. I think that being unified around a bill that extends coverage to 31 million people, ends pre-existing conditions, reduces the deficit, etc. is a good thing so I understand OFA’s position on this.”
So when Gregg Levine at comment #1 writes “So, Democrats are choosing to protect the administration’s cynical deals with PhRMA, AHIP, the Hospitals, 1199, et al. over delivering on their promise to help hardworking Americans afford quality health care.”
he isn’t just whistling dixie. And it ALL can’t be blamed solely on Rahm who, in any event, was chosen by Obama.
They’ll pass a bill that could improve the current health care mess. Maybe the U.S. can move from 37th to 30th in rankings by the World Health Organization. There is also the possibility that later they can come back and fix the problems, just like they came back and fixed NAFTA.
I guess it’s just hard for me to believe that this strategy will work. Why do the folks at the White House think that this obviously defective strategy is the way to go, and that everybody will be fooled into adopting it?
my guess is [Senate] leadership is acting at the direction of the White House … to protect the administration’s cynical deals with PhRMA, AHIP, the Hospitals, 1199, et al. …
Exactly.
It is important for people to know what is possible. The media has a dangerous habit of letting senators tell them lies and report them has hard truths.
I just saw Rep Lynn Woolsey (one of the 16 progressive House members listed in the FDL Health Care War Room as having pledged to Jane not to vote for any bill without a public option)on MSNBC talking to Ed Schultz about the Senate bill. While she made noises about the 35 Senators expressing renewed support for a public option, it sure sounds like, if push comes to shove, she’ll vote to pass the Senate bill despite the fact that it has no public option. I wonder how many House progressives will actually be able to bring themselves to vote for the Senate bill, despite what they’ve said about it.
My guess is they are counting on cognitive dissonance and fear of a lost investment. Many of the people who contributed in some way to pushing for any plan as an end goal will hunt for something to like in the final product, even if the only thing they end up with is their own efforts. Time share salesmen use variations on this trick all the time.
Doctors are making a fortune; medical laboratories are making a fortune; hospitals are making a fortune; HMOs are making billions; medical device manufacturers are making a fortune; insurance companies are making billions; pharmaceutical corporations are making billions. Did I leave out any other special interests in the medical-industrial complex? Neither the House bill nor the Senate bill have seriously addressed these root causes of the escalating cost of health care in the USA. So if any of these bills pass, the costs will keep on climbing…
Amen for your proposal. But alas for it’s probably not getting any “traction” and alas, what was kind of good is pretty much s..t now, and I grieve for that.
I spoke with a church friend the other day who was boasting about the oped piece by spokesperson of the interfaith social advocacy group that has worked hard for a year to get the bill passed. Months ago they seemed pleased with what was on the table and said to me (in response to my saying that what was on the table was disastrous, and this was before the Senate bill, there is no bill yet. I asked if he didn’t see any value in trying to frame the content of the final bill? No, there is no bill. Well there are now two bills and the op ed was a celebration of what could still be a help for some, totally ignoring the atrocities that now and will exist if the “bills” (whichever and whatever combined/compromised final bill is to be)are in fact passed and signed.
The bottom line is that I now have even less respect for these folks and their “liberal” faith organization than ever before and I grieve for that too.
I’m so sick of it all,
Nevertheless, blessings to all
Ding!
Big Thank You! The House bill is treated worse than John Edwards. It isn’t ignored, it’s treated as though it doesn’t exist. Meanwhile, everyone who says “this bill is unpopular” is correct because it IS the senate bill that is so unpalatable to everyone. and yet, that’s what BO wants.
spit~
The White House’s choice of the Senate bill over the House bill is probably no more than a cynical bet by Obama that Pelosi has a better chance of getting the votes to pass the Senate bill, rather than vice versa. After all, only 35 Senators have signed onto the latest push for a public option. Even if you could get a public option passed in the Senate through reconciliation (I’m not at all certain you could), that’s still 15 Senators (plus V.P. Biden) short of what’s necessary. Because the Democratic caucus’ supermajority passed the Senate bill without a public option, we don’t know exactly how many Senate votes there are for a public option…we only know there appear to be 35 at the moment.
Hey all you scairdy cat Congress kritters. You want to be popular back home? SUPPORT UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE! Alan Grayson is leading in his Florida Primary. On the Republican side. HA HA HA
I think he is also leading among the D’s.
take a look at Jane’s post @40 in prior thread. that’s how this whole idea got launched.
Jon,
Amen to that! The Dems deserve the blame. They have the power, but not the desire, will, or guts to use it to pass legislation that solves people’s problems. Now, tell me, what is the value for working people in their continued existence as a party.
Lynne Wolsey is a particularly mealy-mouthed gutless wonder. It’s a disgrace that she co-leads the progressive caucus.
I love your logic and Jane’s simple proposition in her post @40 in prior thread. But they both depend on doing this:
I think you are admitting the only way we can avoid passing the Senate bill is by eliminating or sharply curtailing use of the filibuster in the Senate. Even more sharply than reconciliation does. Once we eliminate or restrict the filibuster, an entire new menu of legislative possibilities opens up. We would not be limited to ANY bill already passed by either chamber, we could have a whole NEW bill made up of the best parts of each PLUS the public option. So, that’s not gonna happen, obviously, since it would prove progressives were correct all along. Not allowed . . . . .
Sorry, but the Democrats are considering only bad ideas for health care reform.
JON: “If health care reform fails, remember that once again Democrats chose protecting Senate tradition over delivering on their promise.”
There IS no HCR! Only a Senate Bill that’s a giveaway to corporate interests, that’s being pushed by Obama and the Dem Party. That’s not reform, but I admit, I’m quibbling on that point.
House Dem’s? . . . . they are being threatened with funding for ’10, progressives and all, including the Prog Caucas Members.
All in all, Dem’s in BOTH Chambers of Congress are bought and paid for.
IF we luck out and between the Repugs and a handful of Progs in The House there IS no passage of this shit, it will be the best we can get . . . because regardless of WHAT the folks who champion ANY change coming in the Senate Bill I guarentee when they GET that change they will wish they never had supported it.
A mandate? Obscure end to preexistings? Hah! Higher unregulated premiums coupled with higher co-pays and higher deductibles alone will make it unaffordable to any of the 3 or 30 million who will be FORCED to buy insurance under the mandate.
IF there are any national or state exchanges for the poor, the insurance companies will use them as a dumping ground for the preexistings . . . .
And as others have rightfully described, if this Senate Bill passes, it’s the inroad to killing SS, Medicare, Medicaid and any and all other entitlement programs, likely Unemployment Insurance, also.
And, as RI has shown, public education is in the line of the sights of the corporate government we have and THAT too will be eliminated.
There’s no doubt about it IMHO, the passage of this Senate Bill is the nail in the coffin of we the people.
NO robust PO? Kill the bill.
And in general, Jon, while I laud you loud and with verve and appreciate you telling us what IS possible, WRT the Senate changing any rules? Not even when hell freezes over.
It’s a corporate owned and operated government at this point, top to bottom.
It’s class war, and NONE of our elected offals will fight for we the people for fear of losing what they have.
And let’s NOT forget what kind of pressure the corporate/military/CIA mix exerts on those who would dare to step out of the corporate facist box they are in.
I guess today is one of those days for me where that damned mountain looks too steep and too tall to climb.
Maybe tomorrow things will look a bit brighter . . . and thanks for all you do Jon, and FDL, too, to inform your readers . . . . even if we don’t appreciate it at times . . . ;-)
Without the Stupid/Putz amendment, please.
I don’t see the point in worrying about Congress passing a HCR bill written by lobbyists. The entire effort has amounted to nothing more than a fraud on the American people. Without a robust public option(which isn’t going to happen)neither bill is worth passing. It’s just going to perpetuate the corporate stranglehold on America’s health care disaster. Americans still will not have access to full health coverage or be able to afford health care even with government subsidies. And did I mention the deficit will continue to ballon because of spiraling Medicare costs. This has become some type of morbid joke.
It’s almost like a contest where most stupid wins ….
And, yeah, Stupak is a stupid putz. I am dying to support a primary candidate against him and his stupid gray hair.
The only CHANGE we can believe in is to vote all of them out in 2010 and 2012.
I for one will not vote for anyone holding an office in washington today
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/obama-to-progressives-31-million-people–and-my-presidency–are-on-the-line-if-health-care-fails.php?ref=dcblt
May I answer that Mr. President?
1) The uninsured have already been forgotten.
2) We freaking lefties left you a victorious Party with a big majority. What are you doing to it? Helping the Corporations attack the left and destroying the D Party. Making deals with PhRMA. Calling us names. As for your Presidency, follow or get out of the way, because I do not see you leading.
All true, and the next step is to start to remove Democrats like Lincoln and Obama from position of power. The left can only determne the electoral fate of Democrats like Obama and Lincoln and providentially the challenge to Lincoln demonstrates that we on the left in fact have this power.
We need to exercise this power rather than bemoan our fate as if it were predetermined.
There is in addition a very clear and convenient gauge by which we can establish which Democrats favor leaving rapacious corporations in place, and that gauge is the public plan whose effect is to directly diminish corporate wealth.
By this gauge Obama along with some 15 reluctant Senators should be forewarned that they will be targeted by the left as being stooges who favor corporate welfare and whose career we on the left will attack.
Whatever momentum and influence we seem to have shown we should exercise it to full effect now.
Let the HCR fail, then the insurance premiums will go up (CA first) dramatically. And sooner, rather than latter the public will start screaming, and the politicians will have to listen (dems and repubs) to ensure they have a job next election. The result will be some type of rules limiting rate increases, and maybe other beneficial rules as well. Get the public angry enough and things do move forward. Maybe the States will start a pool to form a single payer program – having all the progressive States work together could be a formidable force. Food for thought.
Nobody likes the Senate Bill except the hand full of guys that paid for it and the hand full getting paid. This is the Democratic Party forcing the voters into a relationship with the insurance companies that the voters DON’T WANT. Obama played chess for a year and now he is pressuring the house to pass this steaming heap saying he will fix it later? I remember thinking, “at least Obama won’t embarrass me”.
Oh well. Now everybody hates the Republicans AND the Democrats. That’s two steps in the right direction.
You got it right.
Problem is with democrats itself. If they take a principled approach and add in their charter of stop taking corporate campaign donations which will not hurt them in any way politically in a two party majority system nothing will get fixed.
I am seriously thinking of voting with Green Party instead of Democrats from now since they have in the charter of not taking any coporate campaign donations which makes my life simple to decide who is for the people unlike democrats who seem to have perfected the art of putting up a dog and pony show just to indulge in corporate welfare and put common people through pain and suffering.
It’s yet another sign of the corporatist Dem’s hypocrisy that they trumpet the meme that a House vote on the Senate bill is the next step. The White House trumpets this tactic because the Senate bill is the bill they want to deliver. The one without a PO, without drug reimportation, etc., and with a mandate to continue to feed the parasite that is the problem, siphoning off the extra money we spend on health care to get sub-par results.
Even if they can’t bring themselves to do as you suggest, and I agree–use the nuclear option to restore the Senate to its constitutional function–they could always let the Republicans physically filibuster. Seems to me this would be the best way to get America to watch the “up-or-down vote.”