I want a list of those 8 votes that are not there.

Start of list:
Evan Bayh
Blanche Lincoln
Mary Landrieu
Max Baucus
Kent Conrad
Ben Nelson
Bill Nelson
…now name me two more.

BTW, the 9th is Lieberman

I’m not sure I would be willing to claim that Reid intentionally punk’d the Democratic base – More likely seems like it was just a welcome by-product of his dancing and games.

No, the Dems in Congress punked the whole damn country.

I wish this wasn’t the case, but this doesn’t ring true to me:

If the public option with a state opt-out was only a few votes shy of 60, it should clearly have at least 50 votes for passage by a reconciliation measure that can’t be filibustered, right? What Reid’s spokesman now appears to be saying is that the public option doesn’t have even 50 votes in the Senate.

There are so many wishy washy folks on that list of a few shy of 60 that they might have only voted yes if it was a question of the entire bill with a public option or nothing. But with just the reconciliation fixes I don’t think we have 50 yet. More work to do.

“What Reid’s spokesman now appears to be saying is that the public option doesn’t have even 50 votes in the Senate.”
____

That would be my bet.

Reid is an effective leader – if you’re a big corporation intent on the continued screwing of the remaining Americans with gainful employment.

Harry Reid sucks. Remember all the Senatorial Procedural tricks Harry Reid employed to gut FISA and especially to provide retroactive immunity for Big Telco. Reid pulled off amazing double spiral backflips while the informed public clamored for the application of the rule of law and no retroactive immunity.

Harry runs out of tricks when the issue is one that serves the citizens.

Harry Reid, you might as well be Mitch McConnell.

Punked himself in the process. He’s not getting re-elected by throwing Joe Lieberman the keys to the counrty.

We should hyphenate his name. Harry McConnell-Reid.

not even 50 votes –kubuki theater–the party (dems and repubs) have acheived their goal-screwing the consumer for corps

If Obama wanted the Public Option it would be in the Bill and it would get passed. It seems to me that the WH has made deals that guaranteed there would be no PO long ago. Look how Obama has continiously backed away from the PO calling it non-essential element. All the dancing and manipulating around by Congress has been just nonsense to placate the voters.

Didn’t Jane write something similar around the end of January? With the punch line that if the bill needed 40 votes, they wouldn’t be there, if it needed 30 votes, they wouldn’t be there. Some mighty transparent (at last) kabuki.

If the Dems would bite the bullet and pass a simple, straight-forward “Medicare for All” bill using reconciliation—effective on signing, they’d guarantee their control of Congress for a generation. It happened with Social Security, it could happen again—they’re just too timid, or intimidated by Republican screaming, to do it.

Reid ?
Hope the citizens of Nevada see fit to boot him to the curb.

if a bullfrog had wings he wouldn’t bump his ass when he hopped either

Yes.

That is all.

the claim that Reid is a great vote-counter has long been justification for why he has the job.

Note “vote-counter”, not “vote-getter”. Harry Reid appears to be Senate Majority Leader because he’s the only Democrat who can count to 100.

liberal libertarians arise and take your country back!the democratic machine needs to be subverted for the good of the people.

I disagree. I think he’s demonstrated that he can’t even count to 60.

At least. It seems so simple…

arise and take your country back

Did you mean “our” country?

What about the democratic socialists? It’s our country too.

What’s your pleasure? I got Vernor’s, coffee, tea and water.

Spot on

Obama sells speeches that sounds progressive and liberal – and in the end is as much a corporate owned politician as any on the GOP side.

Back in the primaries the above was what I was told was the case by my friends in management that had not retired. Indeed their fear of Hillary was very real – based on their and my memory of how she was the only one fighting for single payer in 93 and of how hard the Ins. co lobbying effort had to be to get Bill to “trust” our promise of future cooperation if no single payer – and how excited the ins co’s were when Bill ordered up the task force, but told Hillary she was forbidden to look at single payer.

I expect nothing from Obama in the future other than slightly better judge picks than a McCain would have made (right wing rather than far right wing) and small kick backs for social programs in every welfare check for business legislation that he proposes. Indeed not even that post 2010 as he will use the excuse of the new GOP formal Congressional control that replaced their current informal control as reason to cut out liberal progressive portions of any bill.

spot on – Medicare for all via buy in so no cost – just cost savings.

Folks, look at the numbers:

Anthem in CA has the need to increase health care premiums 39% and loose many thousands of customers to maintain premiums.

That’s a going out of business strategy. The ONLY salvation for the Heath Insurance Companies is to mandate the healthy (the young) to buy their product. Even with this, in the long term the Heath Insurance Companies will still go out of business, because there is no cost containment on medical providers.

The Health Insurance providers and insurers are protected from each other as the insurers cannot force down provider’s costs.

For employers there the tax to force employees into lower benefit plans, that’s the “cost control”. Cost control for employers.

Preexisting conditions? Good luck with that when the health insurance can charge you twice a healthy person in your age group.

Benefits for the public, the voters?

Public Option? End of the Heath insurance Companies.
Medical Procedure Costs? Doctors, Hospital & Drug Companies loose revenue.

Any benefit for voters (consumers) is a loss for some moneyed group.

Wasn’t there a list of 51 senators that signed up for the public option earlier ? If so, then Reid should have 51 votes.

Maybe I got it wrong, was it the house ?

End of story.

Simple, too.

Actually, someone needs to bring up medicare for all and let them try to vote it down. How about Kucinich or Sanders.

i do not see that happening –the big government required to implement socialist change has proven itself so corrupt and beholden to corporate interests to ever succeed. the best we can do is to follow the Constitution to stop the wars ,our erosion of civil liberties and a fascist state of corporations controlling the government. see the last 30 years for proof

then they would have to take responsibility- that they avoid at all costs–it can not get clearer than drug re-import. we get the message.

BTW, thanks for the update Jon Walker and all your work.

Seems there’s always JUST enough hope to keep us hanging on . . . .

Evan Bayh
Blanche Lincoln
Mary Landrieu
Max Baucus
Kent Conrad
Ben Nelson
Bill Nelson
…now name me two more.

BTW, the 9th is Lieberman

Carper
Prior
McCaskill
Feinstein

There’s no shortage a lousy Dems — the same crowd who voted with Bush for 8 years.

I agree with your list – but I am not sure they would vote against if it meant being exposed to the base as GOP/corporate types running as Democrats. Calling for a vote is the only way to find out.

The Senate 51 when I went through the list became 43 or 44 that I was sure of – but we will not know until Reid exposes the truth by forcing a vote – and vote may make the 51 materialize once more.

I agree. We need an FDL campaign against the Senate. Hopefully Jane Hamsher will pick up on this suggestion and launch an immediate lobbying effort. “You. Me. Public option. Vote. Right now.” Somebody or somebodies is against the public option and does not have the guts to say so in public.

Let’s EXPOSE them.

If that’s true the bill is dead and we have to go back to work on passing one (acceptable) piece at a time. That means we’ll have a very hard time making it powerful enough to lower costs dramatically.

After all, the PO works in conjunction with the exchange(s) and the mandate(s) and the ban on pre-existing-conditions or reccissions and Medicaid subsidies.

What’s left without those? Any cost containment at all? Not much.

So, does SCOTUS see the corruption of Congress or does money have to change hands in a dark garage a la Deep Throat?

to placate the voters

?

Funny, it’s the lack of the PO which makes them mad.

No, I think the PO became the final obstacle the ConservaDems couldn’t stomach (see Bayh leaving) and Reid has kept it in there.

Let’s see how this plays out. I still hope for everything to work out. It’s hard to imagine there would be so many Dems who would turn away now. If it passes I’ll suggest there are some how might have voted for it if needed, but who are given a pass for political purposes…same in the Hosue.

I thought the job of rounding up votes needed to pass legislation was actually the job of the majority whip. Pretty sure the Majority leader has a significantly expanded portfolio and must rely on the other members of leadership to handle their respective functions.

Reid can’t do shit until after Obama’s next bipartisan cop-out meeting on the 25th. The WH is, was, and always has been the primary force fighting to kill the public option. They encouraged the blue-dogs in back room meetings (documented at this site and others) and then backed them up through leaks and statements in the press. Even this latest ploy for the “summit” allows Rham to dictate what the reconciliation solution will be. This effectively kills usual negotiations between the House and Senate to undercut anyone fighting for a good reconciliation bill.

Of course Reid’s team can’t whip! The WH has pretty much said they are crafting the bill. Who’s going to go on record agreeing to potentially oppose “Obama’s” plan?

To me, the real question is if Harry Reid should openly go to war with the WH. Shy of that, we aren’t going to see anything decent. In his position, there are pretty big risks to either course of action. I don’t question at all if Reid wants the PO. I’m sure he does. I’m just not sure he can win against Obama to make it happen. IMO, if they can pull it off, Reid is a legislative god (and Pelosi a goddess).

You want two more? OK: Harry Reid and Joe Lieberman. And, masswaster@33 was kind enough to help with four more: Carper, Prior, McCaskill, and Feinstein. But the 2 most important who are against the Public Option are Obama and Rahm. They’ve been beating the PO down since April ’09!

Excellent additions. Before we stop counting I bet we could add another 3 or 4 more. Amy Klobuchar comes to mind as another chameleon. She’s a real team player. How about Casey? Also, Webb and possibly Warner.

The time has come to force an up or down vote on the public option. The voters deserve to know where their representatives stand on this and other issues so that they may make informed decisions in the voting booth.

This is, of course exactly what the Senate fears most; having to take a stand and make a committment. To paraphrase an old adage; it is better to avoid a vote and be thought a fool than to cast a vote and remove all doubt!

We now know the answer is a resounding YES! The better question is, why didn’t we know this when he was doing it? Or, did we know this, but we’re unable to effectively communicate it?
Our Alice-in Wonderland World has too fast moved beyond reasoning.

Jim–its obvious that this not enough votes ‘thing’ has worked in the past. But, now that people are “Walking behind” Reid, looking over his shoulder, and keeping their OWN notes, its time to call Reid out. Reid probably isn’t use to people actually paying attention, or at least on this grand of scale. People who are ACTUALLY able to call attention to it, and do something about it. But I’m sure Reid is probably just doing what his superiors tell him to do like a nice spineless, conservadem dinosaur.

Somebody needs to do what it takes to get a public option.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

There are too many Americans who have no health care.

This is the list:

Definite no (7):
Lieberman
Landrieu
Lincoln
Ben Nelson
Bayh
Pryor
Hagan

Refuse to commit yet (3):
McCaskill
Webb
Carper

All the rest are definite yes – including Baucus, Conrad, and Bill Nelson would all vote for it in the end, but they’re not going to be providing enthusiastic encouragement to do it. So there are 49 definite yes’s and 3 maybe’s, and they need a little margin for error before Reid makes the push. McCaskill, Webb, and Carper would probably vote yes in the end, but then again there is a chance someone like Tester would switch to no – so Reid has to make sure he has all his ducks in a row before he asks for their final answer.

_ “But, more importantly, this statement raises a big question. Why did Reid make the decision to put the public option with a state opt-out provision in the merged Senate bill?
He led the base to believe that he would fight for the public option. Most importantly, he led the base to believe that this modification to the public option could get 60 votes in the Senate needed for cloture, or at least very close to 60 votes.”_

Good comment, Jon.
The answer is actually very simple: you almost get it (below). Back at that time, Reid’s POLLS were TANKING, and Ed Schultz was RALLYING “the base” – his listeners in Nevada, to call Reid and tell the Senator that if he SABOTAGED the Public Option, Reid could say “Sayonara” to the Dem base – the energetic core activists who listen to the Ed show – working for, and helping out, & voting for his reelection campaign. Don’t know how many hundred(s) of Ed listeners called the Senator’s offices, but REID GOT THE MESSAGE, and came out FOR the Public Option.

THEN OBAMA & EMANUEL PUSHED BACK, with the next step-up of their year-long genuine reform SABOTAGE.
Emanuel actually had to RESORT to USING the DESPISED LIEBERMAN to put the final stake in the heart of genuine reform, and KILL OFF the Public Option, by getting Lieberman to play the FILIBUSTER card, while also twisting Reid’s arm even more than Reid’s “base” supporters.
For anyone paying attention, this was THE FINAL INDICATION that the “Change” president was RUNNING HIS PRESIDENCY according to the JOE LIEBERMAN agenda – Obama made NO, ZERO, NADA effort to put Lieberman on the hot seat, because Emanuel AND Obama were ENCOURAGING Lieberman in his OBSTRUCTION SABOTAGE of genuine reform.
As you write:
_”When, eventually, Ben Nelson, JOE LIEBERMAN, and Blanche Lincoln rejected the public option, supporters were led to believe it was only three to five votes shy of passing, and only those few conservative Democrats were to blame.”_

The key to this murder mystery, like Sherlock Holmes “The Hound of the Baskervilles” is what you DON’T hear: you DIDN’T hear Obama putting Nelson, Lincoln, and Lieberman ON THE HOT SEAT, because HE, Obama, was ENCOURAGING their sabotage!

Can’t be Feinstein; she signed the letter calling for the restoration of the public option through reconciliation. I doubt if any senator is capable of the contortions needed to sign that letter and yet oppose it. But, of course, you never know.

For what it’s worth, the eleven senators who have so far signed that letter are Bennet, Brown, Burris, Feinstein, Franken, Gillibrand, Kerry, Leahy, Merkley, Sanders and Whitehouse. There is a constantly updated list posted at http://whipcongress.com/?source=letter .

I’m from New York and we’re working on Schumer. If you have a Democratic senator who has not signed, start working on him or her.

Yes, it’s climbing up the same hill all over again, but just remember that McCain/Feingold finally got passed using the same method. That is because, for the most party, congressional leaders like Reid are NOT LEADERS BUT FOLLOWERS. You need to give them something to follow.