something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get

none of the public option plans proposed by congress are accurately or even remotely described by this.

welcome to the world of selling the po by comparing to something that was created as a single payer

Making the right decision, the popular decision, and the politically smart decision should not be hard.

Remember who we’re talking about here. They have not shown a propensity lately to make many decisions that are proper, popular, or smart. You have to wonder how this guy ever got elected President. The answer lies in the differences between his campaign brain trust and his governing brain trust. You’d think Obama would get this after last Tuesday.

But alas. After today’s budget freeze chicanery, it’s clear the guys in touch with his voters are not in charge.

Any reality-based, data-driven progressives who disagree should check out the polling data from Progressive Change Campaign Committee and Democracy, referenced above and here, and then explain why the administration has sold us out at every turn this past year, from civil liberties to Afghanistan, from the bank bailout to health care reform, from the weak stimulus bill to their continuation of the Bush DOJ.

Do not give your money to the DLCC. Support what Jane and FDL are doing if you’re tired of being taken for granted and of seeing the corporatists win.

Yeah, we can’t just keep using the generic “public option” language. It’s got to be specific to something that is open to all and uses a Medicare peg for payouts. Otherwise it’s a bound-to-fail sop that will do nothing to lower costs short- or long-term.

Ahhhhh, but it would be too easy to let democracy work and give the people what they want: a decent health care bill. Instead, let’s treat them like know-nothing imbeciles and throw deficit-hawk bones at independents, cross-over Republicans, and Democrats. Further, let’s run on things that are counter-productive and will only worsen the economy, like cuts to government spending. Is it just me, or does anyone else find it odd that Dems are so hellbent on keeping it a secret from the public that the only reason why the economy is doing marginally better is BECAUSE OF government spending? Almost as if they’re afraid of being called “liberals” or something.

When Dems are blind-sided by losses in 2010, hopefully it won’t take long for the party to understand why: they’re going to be rejected for being fucking retarded.

I agree with Selise. None of the public option plans proposed by Congress are even remotely described by that fantasy poll statement.

I bet 68 percent of voters favor flying candy canes and pink Unicorns too, and that has better than a 7 percent margin of error.

I won’t be sending DFA or the PCCC any money if this is how they spend it.

You morans keep your government hands off my Medicare…

PS: Go USA.

It doesn’t matter who supports what anymore. Corporeal citizens of whatever political persausion are not part of the equation anymore. The corporations have got us by the short & curlies. Rahmbama knows it and could give a rat’s patoot about what we, the people, want. We are expendable, and frankly, I’m sure ObamaRahma just points & laughs at data like this. Their mantra: money talks, baby.

“This is such a politically stupid decision it makes my head hurt.”

I know, Jon. And watching you beat your head against the wall by pointing these things out, when the president of the United States has no more interest in a public option than he does in contracting oral herpes, makes MY head hurt. :o)

Good luck to us both. Looks like we’re going to need a pickup truck full of aspirin in the next three years.

“Instead of paying for fixing the incredibly unpopular excise tax with the savings from a very popular public option, Democratic leaders are planning on more tax increases, and cuts to Medicare Advantage. This is such a politically stupid decision it makes my head hurt.”

Proposed because, the very popular public option does not fix, for a few years, the Medical Insurance Companies’ failing business model.

Once the Government fixes health care with a government run plan, it calls into question many other things that might be better run by Government, Power, Natural Gas, Phones, Life Insurance, Car Insurance, Retail Banking, Student Loans, weapons, military equipment, and so on.

It calls into question the “business can do things better” mantra that underpins the political-economic system in the US.

It’s not a “politically stupid decision” it’s a necessary condition and industries’ paid servants, our elected, know this.

GOP voters get dicked over by their “leaders” just like Dem voters. The real divide is between common folk and the plutocracy that owns both parties. The Dem vs. GOP crap is bread and circuses to fool the rabble.

Love the numbers for Heinrich and Teague in NM… especially since Teague voted against the House HCR bill.

But the really sad part is that the MSM have done so much to obfuscate HCR, and most people can’t sort it out… to know they need to push on Teague to vote for a public option.

Spelled out as it is in the polling question is fine… some how it gets transmogrified on its way to Congress.

It’s being reported that the Republican Congressional caucaus has invited Obama to meet with them on their Friday retreat. He of course has accepted. They like him, they really like him. Chump!

Amen to that, Kafka.

Loved your short story In the Penal Colony.

I never supported either the House or the Senate bills because I thought both were too weak, but that doesn’t invalidate the poll. It shows that Congress is going in the wrong direction on HCR and is going from bad to worse in where they are taking HCR. This poll shows that HCR isn’t so much partisan disagreement as corporatist versus non-corporatist.

selise and wOO have said it all

After 8 long yrs. of BV$H as unbelievable as it might sound, I’m finding this guy even harder to bear. We deserved better then this klown and his Corporatist regime. Even BV$H had better political sense then this guy. I wonder who he’ll blame come Nov. and the loss of the Congress? Probably all of us.

Why shouldn’t he meet with them?

“This is such a politically stupid decision ……”

They can’t help it, its their nature.

This is just symptomatic of how corrupt they are. It is clearly in the public interest. It is clearly in their own interest politically. Yet they still resist?.. They don’t work for the people.. they work for the insurance industry.. corporations that have bought our govt.

It doesn’t matter what people want — it’s all about what the big corporate backers want.

How else do you explain all the kabuki and excuses they give for ignoring the will of the electorate?

There are too many people making too much money with the system the way it is now. This is about organized corporate criminals holding our health hostage for their own enrichment, and they’ve paid off elected officials to not only keep it that way but force 50 million more customers into the corrupt system.

The only explanation is corporate takeover of America.

Dontcha know, this is one of them there “advocacy polls” and should automatically be written off by members of Congress. I actually heard a member of Congress (or was it Gibbs?) use that on Ed Schultz’s show to claim that the polls were all over the lot and that he knew what folks were thinking.

Rahm Emanuel called me a retard? No. A fucking retard? Not how to keep the base happy.

Asshole.

[Mod Note: As we say again, the word is offensive when used by Rahm. It is offensive when used by others. Please stop.]

And if we don’t think the way we should? They have a little remedy for that, too. So, yes, in a predictive sense, I guess you could say they do know.

L7 said it best:

Deathwish

Passed out drunk on the living room floor
Gets up and pukes so she can drink some more

Donita Sparks ran a music post here for quite a while.

Need to look at this in a different light. The Oligarchs have control of most of the major companies in the country through interlocking corporate directors. There’s individuals that serve on numerous and varied corporate boards. These are the true leaders.

Presidents, and some congressional leaders are essentially the mouthpieces, the errand boys to carry out the Oligarchs directives. People’s opinions matter not, political party’s are raised and lowered, giving the impression of “change”. The release valve on the pressure cooker. Yes, the people themselves hold “ideals” to a particular party but the Oligarchs and their “servants” do not.

Want change ? You’d be better served by starting a nationwide boycott against Aetna than faxing Diane Feinstein.

I live in Markey’s CO district. I campaigned for her door to door, though reluctantly (she was handpicked by former Sen. Salazar to push out the candidate that previously came closest to unseating Marilyn “Muskrat”). There is no hope of swaying her, I fear.

Sentiment at her healthcare townhall meeting was overwhelming pro-public option and single-payer, even though this is a conservative area. Yet she was only willing to say that she would never agree to raising taxes ON THE WEALTHY (specifically) and was making deficit reduction her priority. Though they were raised, she refused to even address issues like the real cost savings to be had from a public option. One letter to the local papers called her “Musgrave Lite”, all the substance of the original without what passed for honesty.

Emails and calls to her staff receive the same treatment, except that, after awhile, your emails are no longer acknowledged even by the robot.

I will not be voting for her, regardless.

Two-thirds of Americans support Medicare-for-all part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5, part 6.

And that’s how it should be. According to this article, though, they seem to have moved from clusterf*ck to FUBAR now.

Like Jane said yesterday, the Dems seem ready to agree on a massive suicide pact rather than do something to benefit the people that is extremely popular. Who says you can’t pay someone to kill themselves and make it stick. Just amazing?

Donita Sparks ran a music post here for quite a while.

I am not worthy, I am not worthy.

We used to see L7 around here every time they came up to the Bay Area around 91-94 or so. My fave of theirs is that cover of American Society.

welcome to the world of selling the po by comparing to something that was created as a single payer

Selise, you’ve raised an interesting point. It was curious seeing congressmen and senators who were Medicare for All supporters (sponsors even, in the case of Dingell and Kennedy) back down last winter and sign onto “insurance exchange” bills. As much as we pick on Baucus, everybody knows he’s always been a tool. Its watching veteran liberal Members wimp out (let’s face it, the House and HELP bills were pretty weak tea) that’s been so disappointing.

The question is, were they just phoning it in before when they endorsed Medicare for All, knowing that President Bush would never sign it? Or did they cave because President Obama has calling the shots all along and he was the one who took a single payer plan off the table fron the start? Not sure which theory is more depressing.

party insiders planned the cave and sold it to edwards, clinton and obama before obama was even elected. then they sold it to progressives orgs, including progressive bloggers with lies and misinformation. and then they created a multi 10s of millions of dollars marketing campaign to sell it, again with misinformation and lies, to the rest of us. frequently conflating their po plan with single payer, or as a path to single payer. there are even youtubes and comments here, so it’s not like there isn’t plenty of evidence for anyone who goes looking for it.

all this began before obama was even elected. i’m pretty pissed off at the congressmembers who caved. but it’s hard to expect them not to when their position has already been abandoned by the majority of the base with $ (the grass roots organizers at pnhp, cna, etc held firm, but for that they were demonized to the point where even elizabeth warren’s coauthors weren’t accepted as legitimate voices in the so-called debate.

i could not imagine a more depressing series of events.

p.s. the links @29 have some of the background.

i should add that, while i don’t know for a fact, i think the motivation behind a lot of the games played by D party insiders was an attempt to keep the industry $ flowing their way.

“Use Senate reconciliation and expand Medicare via the Senate’s buy-in provisions. The CBO has already signed off on this as a means of saving money.

More importantly, if more Americans can do a buy-in with Medicare, it creates more cost control (because there’s a genuine “public option” competitor). It also helps to solve the problems of pre-existing conditions, because Medicare does not deny coverage on this basis.

Allowing a Medicare buy-in to Americans under 65 would give people a genuine alternative to private insurance and thereby render the pre-existing question moot. It would also lower Medicare costs by expanding the risk pool of patients (the great bulk of medical expenses are accounted for by a small number of people, mostly the elderly, requiring very expensive treatment). And it would substantially enhance the global competitiveness of American corporations. After all, in what other country in the world is health care a marginal cost of production for business?” – Marshall Auerback