I’m going over the call reports and I see that staffers for Yvette Clark (NY-11) are saying she is “undecided” as to whether she’ll vote for the Senate bill or not, and that all the calls she’s getting are from people asking her to vote “for” it:
I spoke to someone named Meena, who said that she had fielded a lot of calls over the past few days from people telling Yvette Clarke to vote for the bill as it stands. She said no one had called to say otherwise. She said she would “probably” make a decision one way or the other by Tuesday 1/26.
That’s curious because Clarke is one of 60 Democrats who signed a letter saying she wouldn”t vote for a bill without a public option, and she has said that her constituents very much want one:
| 7/24/09 Yvette Clarke on MSNBC
CARLOS WATSON: If the President comes to you and says “Congresswoman Clarke, no one wants this to happen more than I do. But it has to happen in stages, that’s just the reality, it’s a tough battle and I don’t have everything I need right now. I need your vote, I need your support. Will you support a bill that doesn’t include a public option?” YVETTE CLARKE: No, I can’t support a bill that doesn’t have a public option. On what do her constituents think: “My constituents want to make sure they have access to a public option.” |
|
| 8/11/09 Yvette Clarke on WNYC discussing the July 30 letter: AMY EDDINGS: Are you sticking with that? You would vote against health care reform if the public option isn’t want you hoped it would be? YVETTE CLARKE: Yes. Yes. Even a watered down version — it has to be competitive in order for it to work. |
|
| 8/31/09 Clarke promises Eve Gittelson she will vote against any bill without a public option: Rep. Clarke: There is no health care reform without a robust public option. Eve Gittelson: You are saying you will not vote for any bill through conference that does not have a public option. Rep. Clarke: That is correct. |
That’s quite a video legacy to turn your back on.
History
This appears to be a pattern with Clarke. She switched her vote on supplemental war funding too:
Rep. Clarke signed the 2007 letter saying she would not vote for any war funding that did not include troop withdrawal. She voted “no” on the war supplemental the first time it went through the House this year. She signed Maxine Waters’ letter saying that the IMF funding subsequently added to the supplemental “precluded the possibility of House legislation.”
Her name appeared on internal whip lists as someone who pledged to her colleagues that she would vote against the supplemental when it had to be confirmed after conference. And then the arm twisting started.
Conflicts of Interest
When small dollar online donors raised $430,000 to support those members of Congress who had pledged to vote “no” on any bill without a public option, $5966 went to Clarke. But she also had two fundraisers last year thrown by lobbyist Tim Rupli, who represents finance interests and the anti-immigrant Numbers USA.
As a cosponsor of H.R. 676, she’s one of the 87 who could’ve used their formidable leverage as a third of the Democratic caucus on behalf of single payer. Instead she managed to join with the GOP to gut Alan Grayson’s bill limiting bonuses for TARP recipients. And when the New York Times reported that the drug companies got 42 members of Congress to insert language in the Congressional Record on their behalf, Yvette Clarke’s name was on the list.
Lobbyists win when it matters; small-dollar donors must settle for “symbolic” victories when it doesn’t. And as long as people settle for this kind of “only there when it doesn’t count” attitude from progressives, that’s what we’ll get.
There’s no need for “60 votes” any more to change this desperately unpopular bill. If they can pass it now, they can change it now. If not, Yvette Clarke should keep at least one of the promises she’s made to progressives and vote “no.”
What you can do:
- Sign the petition to House progressives, telling them to keep their pledge and vote “no”
- Fax Clarke’s office by using a free fax service like FaxZero and GotFreeFax. DC Fax: (202) 226-0112, NY Fax: (718) 287-1223.
- Use our Letter to the Editor tool to let media outlets in her district know that there’s quite a bit of video available to counter what she believes her constituents want, and what her office is saying they want.
- Leave a message for Clarke on her Facebook “just fans” wall
Find more information about Yvette Clarke on her FDL Scorecard Page.



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About FDL Action
That old Malcolm X quote keeps running through my head these days: “You’ve been hoodwinked. You’ve been had. You’ve been took. You’ve been led astray, led amok. You’ve been bamboozled.”
What I find interesting, based on this TPM article, is that these congresspeople won’t even keep their word to each other. It used to be that they lied to us, but largely kept their word to each other. That’s what made deal-making possible. Now, they don’t even seem to have that much integrity.
“Don’t be a chump!” I love that speech.
Won’t it be totally ironic if Stupak and his cronies are the ones responsible for denying the House’s acceptance of the Senate bill?
‘Cause somehow, when it comes to denying women reproductive rights the “good is the enemy of the perfect” and they sure can keep that caucus/promise intact.
Yep. Supplemental switcher too.
Broken Pledges on the 2009 Supplemental Appropriations Act.
Not a very reliable politician it seems like to me.
Sorry, had a burp with this post; here are comments which were posted to this article but didn’t meet up with other existing comments.
=====
Nathan Aschbacher || Submitted on 2010/01/24 at 12:42pm
I can’t remember, but wasn’t she also one of the ones to pledge to block the war appropriations bill, but then reversed, and voted for it?
=====
Teddy Partridge || Submitted on 2010/01/24 at 12:43pm
Wow. what a liar she is.
I’d like my money back, please.
=====
EvilDrPuma || Submitted on 2010/01/24 at 12:44pm
I’m not usually happy with my income, but I’m kinda glad I had nothing to spend on her.
=====
EvilDrPuma || Submitted on 2010/01/24 at 12:44pm
Now that we know that the best we’re going to get from the leadership in the House and Senate is a tweaked version of the Senate Democrats’ bill (Pelosi and Reid are looking for the right combination of the fewest changes possible to the Senate bill that would make it acceptable to House Democrats), we have to work hard to get House Democrats to reject it.
Unfortunately, it looks like the only thing left to do is support a piecemeal approach to get insurance regulation and expansion of coverage.
According to TheHill’s Jared Allen, some House Democrats are warming to idea of scaled-back healthcare reform, despite leadership’s reluctance.
=====
dakine01 || Submitted on 2010/01/24 at 12:45pm
It sure does seem like congress Critters have consistently developed memory lapses of what they say.
Is there something in breathing the air on Capital Hill that causes these problems?
=====
Now that we know that the best we’re going to get from the leadership in the House and Senate is a tweaked version of the Senate Democrats’ bill (Pelosi and Reid are looking for the right combination of the fewest changes possible to the Senate bill that would make it acceptable to House Democrats), we have to work hard to get House Democrats to reject it.
Unfortunately, it looks like the only thing left to do is support a piecemeal approach to get insurance regulation and expansion of coverage by other means.
According to TheHill’s Jared Allen, some House Democrats are warming to idea of scaled-back healthcare reform, despite leadership’s reluctance.
Much as I’d like to claim credit for this, it isn’t my work.
Author! Author!
In response to dakine01 || Submitted on 2010/01/24 at 12:45pm
It’s not about memory lapses. It was all kabuki bullshit.
Now that a way has been found to achieve some measure of real health care reform (i.e. “sidecar reconciliation”), not enough of the 51+ Senators who said they supported a public option just three months ago will step forward. See Jon Walker’s In Act Of Collective Insanity, Senate Democrats Don’t Collectively Back Reconciliation Sidecar (Jan 22, 2010).
So who’s her primary opponent? No one would be my guess, which is the problem in a nutshell.
who is she?
I see it now in the comment @ 5. When I didn’t see my name, I thought it just got deleted accidentally. Well, at least the links got back in by reposting it.
Just disgraceful.
And this gives a good indication of the lack of character of the people that are elected into office. You can get a good measure of a person by whether you can trust their word. Apparently in this case her word and signed intent mean nothing.
It is inconceiveable how dense elected officials can be, beginning with Obama. That denseness stems from the disdain these people have for the public.
Apparently they are convinced that the public will not notice that the Senate bill is fatally flawed even when compared with the House version. Moreover they think that all it takes to mollify the public is to repeat to them over and over that the Senate bill is actually quite good for them and in any case all that can be accomplished at this time.
I think that the central government is irretriveably corrupt with maybe one or two exceptions. And that it is on its way to being terminally destroyed and despised with the new gluttony of money. I think we must turn our attention to measures aimed at defanging corporations and big banks and to turn for solutions at the state level.
In the meantime we have to mobilize to get rid of officials that can not be trusted to keep their word.
the difference between a chUmp and a chAmp is “U”.
The woman Democrats need!
Elizabeth is someone we could get behind. Hopefully she will run.
I should have included the close snark tag on that I guess.
That is the problem in a nutshell.
She’s in a D+38 PVI district, one of the most Democratic in the country. There’s no “opposition party” who can challenge people in seats like that, and control of party machinery makes it difficult if not impossible for primary challengers to run and win. Seriously contested elections keep people accountable to their constituents, even if they’re running against complete neanderthals. Without that, you’re always the only game in town.
Sometimes I think campaign donations from industries to committee members who regulate them are the root of all evil, and at other times I think it’s gerrymandering. Scarecrow thinks it’s the “too big to fails.”
And then the Supreme Court swivels around, decides Exxon/Mobil is no different than your Aunt Mabel and whacks everyone over the head.
But yeah, unless some amazing single payer candidate comes around (very popular in her district), unlikely she’ll be challenged.
I donated to the FDL fund for “public option only” Dems and I signed a number of petitions. I’ve changed my mind. I can’t be the only one. It has become the Alamo. I am releasing her from the obligations I imposed on her. Good luck.
Jesus. The Senate bill was bad enough. And now that CBS and NYT are reporting that Obama is behind the scenes negotiating away the ban on pre-existing condition denials, voting for that piece of crap will be even worse.
Did Democrats actually win in 2008? I can’t tell.
You’re absolutely right. You’re not the only one. Your view represents 10% of the people here, according to the poll we took:
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/01/18/should-dems-give-the-money-back-if-they-dont-keep-their-public-option-pledge/
The other 90% think these members should give the money back. But good to see you again flounder, it’s been years. Twice now in two days to let members of Congress know they can keep your money? I respect that kind of intense dedication to a minority cause.
I have sent Mrs. Clark a free fax. I am very thankful that you posted that link Jane, because I’d like to think that if they start seeing faxes pile up maybe they will get the hint.
Emails can be ignored, or they get form-letter replies back.
Faxes are nice physical things that state in plain english “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore”.
I wish I had corporate money so that I could personally fund progressive primary challengers against everyone who deserved it…
Jane,
Thank you for the response. If I lived in Clarke’s district this is exactly the type of behavior that would forever prevent me from voting for her. Wouldn’t it be nice for those folks who feel the same way to have a populist progressive alternative? The reason that this won’t happen is that the party is corrupt to its core. I spend a lot of my votes on third-party candidates who don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell and it’s frustrating, but not as frustrating as watching the slow-motion train wreck that is HCR. It’s been a rollercoaster ride to Groundhog Day and everytime a window of opportunity for something worthwhile to pass opens up it ends up getting slammed on the fingers of the progressives. Ouch! and this type of crap just adds insult to injury.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
What is the feedback you have gotten from the phone tree you pushed last week on House members? It seems to me that given the popularity of real healthcare reform, those “progressives” in very blue districts would have nothin’ ta win and everythin’ ta lose by voting for the Senate bill. Whether or not they get more money from the corporate lobbiests the message of the Tuesday Night Massacre in Massachusetts is that the progressive base will stay home and the lunatics will always vote so there is no amount of money short of turnin’ Republican that can save their jobs if they vote for the healthcare slavery Senate bill. What am I missin here, Sister Jane?
And might I remind ya that the success or failure of healthcare reform as well as any other progressive issue rests in the House of Representatives,I don’t know if anyone has toldja that before (heh-heh-heh…) And can you tell me the status of the relationship between Nancy Pelosi and Rahm Emmanuel…does Pelosi get it that her future as Speaker is tied to killing the Senate bill?
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, FEAR IS JUST A 4-LETTER WORD!!!
To Yvette and all the other compromsing wafflers—learn a lesson from Civil War history (courtesy of devilstower at Daily Kos):
“McClellan’s force still vastly outnumbered the Confederates. But they didn’t act like it.
The advance up the peninsula was halted again, and McClellan wrote “I am tired of the sickening sight of the battlefield, with its mangled corpses & poor suffering wounded! Victory has no charms for me when purchased at such cost.” That was too bad, because with Johnston out of commission the Southern command was settled on General Robert E. Lee. When McClellan tentatively began to advance again, Lee attacked.
The two armies fought six major battles in seven days. Most of those battles were solid Union victories. At the start of the fight Lee had about 1/2 as many men as McClellan. At the end of the fighting Lee was left defending Richmond with a force that was about 1/4 the size of the opposing troops. But it didn’t matter. McClellan retreated from every fight. He backed his men away along the peninsula they’d spent all spring taking, put them on boats, and sailed away. The war would last another three years, and take the lives of another half a million Americans. The North would not find victory until it found a commander willing to stand in and slug it out.”
Check her out lying her ass off. I want my money back Clarke.
That’s great.
The House???!! DOH!
Citizen Hamsher:
Stop takin’ advantage of an old man and tell me what the hell “DOH” means, please!!
Thing is, Obama’s still doing the same thing he did throughout the whole fiasco. NOT taking a stand. NOT taking a stand. NOT taking a stand. This is his plan, but he’s a gutless wonder!
Punk!
The Ballot or the Bullet
Does “DOH” stand for Dirty Old Hippie? Cuz if it does I resemble that remark.
Or equivalently…Balls Beer
Which is exactly why he’s lost my support.
DOH! is from Homer, it basically means “I should have known that!”
: )
farve sux
Yes, transparait at #34 is here to translate Simpson-ese.
“Americans don’t care what you believe, as long as you’re not a pussy.” – Bill Maher
He think homer is some greek, Simpson papasan!
It’s ma skeel.
: )
Spoken by a guy who supported W in 2k!
Thanks Jane. Ulysses S. Grant was widely reviled as being a callous butcher in his relentless drive to break the deadlock of the war in 1864, through persistence and courage eventually prevailed, and was elected President.
George Mc Clellan ran for President in 1864, lost, and is remembered as being a timid waffler who utterly failed to take proper advantage of his situation despote having overwhelming odds favor him.
Hopefully people like Yvette Clarke and others will take note of the foregoing and be on the right side of history even in our risk adverse times.
That’s hilarious.
In my version, the Dems are rolling around in a pile of cash with a half dozen hookers and a mountain of blow, jacked to the teeth and spinning elaborate stories about how the Republicans are making them do it.
I wonder who he’ll vote for in 2012?
YESSSSSS!
they’re gamers, – there is no public; just markets.
Franken. Sanders. Feingold. Weiner. We can thank them for the Senate bill.
Dr. Cornel West recorded a message for President Obama, but it probably could be directed to weak-kneed progressives too:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/world_news_america/8471606.stm
- Tom
Citizen Raven:
There ya go again with all that intellectual, foreign language stuff, Citizen Raven…ya gotta learn ta speak Amerikan ta the grunts, Bro!
I guess it depends on which way the winds are blowing that November.
I think I have this figured out.
The sun rises.
The sun sets.
Fire is hot.
Water is wet.
Democrats get elected to Congress.
Democrats cave.
intellectual, foreign language stuff,
Whoo-hoo, this must be da place
They’ll be blowing towards anyone who is not Barack Obama if the dems pass this bill, I have no doubt.
Carpe diem!!! Professor.
They would have to be cranked out of their minds to think that the rest of us would actually believe them.
You hung out on my side of LA for far too long. *g*
I’m hopin we don’t get carped by a tornado!
Yeah – and remember what Lincoln said to McLellan?
“As long as your not using the Army, can I borrow it?”
The Progressive caucus should remember that about the wave for change that Obama rode:
“Mr. President, as long as your not using your mandate for change, mind if we borrow it?”
Maybe Kucinich can take him in the primary. /snark off
No, don’t say anything bad about them, they’re liberals. You mistakenly think they have to actually “act” like liberals to be liberals. When, in fact, anything becomes liberal when they do it. And the “best” liberal is the one you like the most, not the one who actually does liberal stuff, because if you LIKE them, they have more ability to just TOUCH stuff and make it liberal too.
Understand now? It took me a while, but I think I get it. Here, I’m practicing:
“Why should I care about all your charts and facts and links? Bernie Sanders likes it, and I trust him MUCH more than I trust you. Al Franken thinks so too. So you, you are just wrong.”
How am I doing?
“Quelle Surprise! Proposed Restrictions on Proprietary Trading are a Joke”
“You can drive a supertanker though the loopholes in this proposal, which are:
1. If a firm does not own a bank, it can do proprietary trading
2. Trades with customers are not proprietary trades
These are so silly that I’m astonished anyone is treating this proposal seriously.
Let’s dispatch them in order.”
cont. http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/01/quelle-surprise-proposed-restrictions-on-proprietary-trading-are-a-joke.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NakedCapitalism+%28naked+capitalism%29
They have to do it.
They are being blackmailed.
(The preceding snark is for entertainment porpoises only)
DW
I hope someone is keeping a complete list of all the grifty pols who have accepted our donations to this site and then stabbed us in the back. They have certainly convinced me to keep my wallet closed. Screw ‘em.
That does not sound like fun.
Keep us informed, Raven.
DW
Me likee!!
Compromising pictures, I’ve always suspected.
Nah — they’re not that exotic. It’s just petty, ordinary garden variety greed, the kind that makes your local butcher put a piece of meat out two days past its sell date.
Citizen Raven:
Oh my, where have ya been Brother Freebird…I been needin’ ta stop takin some a the shit around here so seriously lately and it sure helps when ya drop in and remind us of how silly we all look.
And by the way, we had an incredible time with the real folks in Negril AND my new son-in-law put a marlin in the boat and the rest of us peasants brought a bunch a Skipjacks back for our culinary delight on the beach that night. You gotta get your domestic associate on board and join us this next December!
But then on a more serious note…didja read Brother Glenn W Smith’s sermonette this AM? Have we been fightin’ the same fuckin’ war since 1964??!!!
I agree with your position for the need to fight and to some extent you are right in comparing the left and the public generally as being outmanned in some sense. We certainly have the big monied interests and the government to contend with, but that only means we have to take advantage of the tools we have at tour disposal to even the fight and to prevail.
We can not just bemoan the fact that the Congress is corrupt because that is expected given all the influx of money. That is not going to change anytime soon and will likely only get worse. But the public is not defenseless.
Numerically and as consumers we have the overwhelming advantage vs corporations and government and that is the field where we need to fight. We have to starve corporations as consumers, including the big banks and seek out alternatives to these. We also can bypass the central government and pass laws at the state level to limit the workings of health insusrers and other corporations.
We just need first of all need to realize that we are indeed in a fight and then to seek out the strategies we can use in order to prevail. The liklihood is that both the corporate strucure and certainly the Congress will fold when faced with a determined public.
That FDL scorecard page is very useful,
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/rep-yvette-clarke-ny-11th/
I had forgotten about this
“Statements by more than a dozen lawmakers were ghostwritten, in whole or in part, by Washington lobbyists working for Genentech, one of the world’s largest biotechnology companies.E-mail messages obtained by The New York Times show that the lobbyists drafted one statement for Democrats and another for Republicans.
[snip]
The e-mail messages and their attached documents indicate that the statements were based on information supplied by Genentech employees to one of its lobbyists, Matthew L. Berzok, a lawyer at Ryan, MacKinnon, Vasapoli & Berzok who is identified as the “author” of the documents. The statements were disseminated by lobbyists at a big law firm, Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal. [...]
Democrats
* Robert Brady
* Yvette Clarke
* Phil Hare
* Bill Pascrell Jr.
* Donald Payne
That’s just 10 people; the article stated that “more than a dozen” lawmakers used Genentech’s talking points almost verbatim and reports Genentech bragging of getting 42 Representatives to use its talking points. (Note two people missing from this list: Eshoo and Barton, the measure’s co-sponsors.) So who are the others? And who might the other 30 that Genentech boasted of?
Also, it’d be really nice to show the emails, so Americans can see how little it takes to buy a member of Congress. ”
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/11/15/biotech-industry-needs-42-representatives-to-try-to-refute-jane-hamsher/
Thank you, Jane and Marcy!
In the military we kick ass and take names. Here we take names then kick their ass.
Borderline persona non grata for being “mean” at the Lake.
What do they want our piddly contributions for anymore when the corporations have their backs.
SD!
OT (dog lovers, please tolerate this diversion)
Dear Professor/Doctor Dragon;
I have two cats.
They like a plant that has been identified as CATNIP.
Is it a gateway drug?
Am I being morally lacking if I allow them to indulge in this activity.
PS; The cats appear to enjoy using this plant and seem none the worse for doing so, in fact they become animated and what appears to be joyful.
What should I do?
;~DW
We ought to partially thank SCOTUS’s latest for shining some light on a venerable practice.
Book Saloon‘s up.
Right. I do think it would be fun to keep the pooled money for read progressive advocates. I just don’t want my minor donations piddled away on idiots.
Book Salon up at the Mothership with Joseph Stiglitz’s Freefall: America, Free Markets, and the Sinking of the World Economy hosted by William Black
Oh, the merely banal?
What a lack of imagination.
Tsk, tsk.
;~DW
Citizen Raven:
What the fuck??!!! YOU…MEAN??!!! What the hell is that all about…there have been some FNG’s around here lately tryin’ ta earn their stripes by takin’ on us old-timers. Didja get all tangled up with one of the wannabees comin’ outta the tall grass?
So would ya like to try a “throwback” soda? Real sugar!
LOL I like to sprinkle it in a paper bag. Cheaper than renting a movie and its interactive. They know when they’ve had enough, unlike us hoomans.
;~D
And then bitch-slapped by a headliner. Fuck em if they can’t take a joke.
Are there mandatory sentencing laws for that?
Citizen DWBartoo:
If you found some herb that can make a cat joyful and proper company for humans that is some MONSTER stuff and why waste it on fuckin’ cats, man??!!
Exactly right—there is a time for all things, and occasionally retreat to gain retrenchment is best. But not here. The committment has been made and how it turns out at the end depends on how much fortitude we and those who truly support HCR have to support the cause. You are certainly right is saying we have overwhelming numeric superiority—but do we have the appetite to take risks and slug it out so we get to where we need to be?
Or in the words of RFK:
“…Few men are willing to brave the disapproval of their fellows, the censure of their colleagues, the wrath of their society. Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change a world which yields most painfully to change…I believe that in this generation those with the courage to enter the moral conflict will find themselves with companions in every corner of the world.”
Address Day of Affirmation, University of Capetown, June 6, 1966
Amen.
EL KABONG!
http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/cartoons/pages/quickdraw-mcgraw-el-kabong.shtml
Norske, we is both coming out a head of this.
But serious research has shown me that another plant whose name I disremember is more along the lines what you appear to be suggesting.
Have you any serious research of your own that might confirm my suspicians?
DW
Citizen Raven:
I don’t wanna know anymore…sometimes I jest need ta get the fuck away and I used ta use FDL “Late Night” as a way of reconnectin’ with real FDLers but now that I’m retired from the night shift I been missin’ the tunes and the reality of the solid Late Night regulars.
Think about hookin up with the growin Norskie clan next X-mas, bro.
You bet. Had a couple of those. Nice. They come out just as I’m tryin’ to cut out the soda. Figures.
Pretty good. A few things, the term ‘purity troll’ is almost always appropriate when speaking to the democratic base, also, communicating a sense that all is lost forever if something Emmanuel wants doesn’t happen right now (!) is always a good thing to do, and helpful. You could also dedicate a thread to 90 pictures of Obama in a suit, you know, for the ladies. OFA has a convenient website with more suggestions if you are interested…
It’s been a shitty week, Jane, but the American people stand with us, don’t forget!
: )
I crawled back into the water and let ‘em pass me by. Outnumbered I was.
Yea, it’s dicey, late nighter don’t like the raven. . .as I said.
Yes i agree witht that, a great segment of the public are just mindless consumers but not all. Even a large knowledgeable and willing segment of the population can have a significant impact in defunding big banks and companies that engage in political campaigns.
It is the very willingness of some segment of the public to become engaged that will suffice in reeling in corporations and government. Also there is really no option to taking matters into our own hands, that should be abundantly clear by now.
If “sidecar reconciliation” will not be used to advance a public option and/or Medicare buy-in, but will be used instead to make a couple of fixes to the Senate bill in an effort to get House Dems to support it, then the Senate bill must be defeated.
Fine.
But what’s the alternative? Real comprehensive reform?
As I don’t see it as even remotely realistic, I’ve suggested the scaled-back approach here.
It really is such a noticeable taste difference.
They’ve got Pepsi, Dr Pepper, and Mt Dew now out with ‘em (that I know of)
How about giving everyone the opportunity to buy into Medicare at cost, which would be revenue neutral, and covering those who still can not afford that with a Medicaid expansion. Not that I think this will happen, but it should!
Mexican Coke!
Gonna be a bloodbath in November if they pass the senate bill. What are the dems going to say in debates with rep challengers? They’ll get hammered. It couldn’t happen to a nicer little liar than you, Ms Clarke.
Hope you enjoy it.
I think we’re way beyond what should have happened. We have to deal with what is.
As it now looks, it will either be A) some totally unacceptable tweaked version of the Senate bill, or B) break up the House and Senate bills into pieces and pass them to achieve insurance regulation and as much expansion of coverage as possible.
The jig is up. Real health care reform is not going to happen. The only plan on the table that is comprehensive – the Senate bill with “fixes” – totally sucks.
Draft the out of work laborer.
The local PepsiCo bottler (presumably) has been offering “throwback” for “limited times” the last couple of months.
first time they did it, they used current cans and cases so don’t think a lot of folks really noticed but this most recent, they are even using older style cans to get the attention.
If Bernenke is approved, if the Senate health care bill is approved, or if I hear one more goddamn progressive say we need to shut up and get with the team, I’m voting Republican from now on–just to take out some of these Obama apologists’ votes. I’ve had enough.
Hey you are welcomed in my book. Being on the left side of the country late late nite is where I’ll be.. Don’t worry Raven there are still many pups that like your brand of wit..
I’ve had Pepsi and Dr Pepper. I’na Pepper. Never liked Mtn Dew.
The WH is taking the wrong message from MA, that healthcare needs to slow down, that from a state with better healthcare than senate bill. They only interpret it the way they want to.
So, the only way to give the message is to vote and elect green party candidate who favors single payer.
There is no way to mis-interpret that message.
.
The thing is, the so-called crisis resulting from the MA-Sen election is in reality a tremendous opportunity to pass real HCR. Unfortunately what it has revealed instead is a story we have all seen before, once again the emperor has no clothes. First it was the acceptance that reconciliaton could work, which uncovered the lies we were told throughout the last year about how this just was not a viable option. The next layer revealed the duplicity we have been subjected to by all of these pols who told us that they really wanted a public option but it just was not possible to get 60 votes in the Senate for it. They duped us into thinking that there were almost 60 senators who supported this, when apparently there are now less than 50.
If reforming the health insurance industry was difficult before, it is nye on impossible now. SCOTUS has unchained corporate coffers and that changes the game considerably. Perhaps this was the wrong approach to begin with, and HCR can be accomplished without legislating private insurers. We should just expand Medicare and Medicaid and watch the insurance companies wither away and die off under the weight of their own inferior products.
I do not trust the Senate bill. There appear to be so many poison pills in it that I do not understand how anyone can expect to get rid of them all. At this point I would prefer to see the Senate bill shitcanned and pass the worthwhile parts piecemeal in a transparent manner. Are the Republicans really willing to oppose a ban on pre-existing conditions and coverage caps?
If so, then some kind of reconciliation process may be necessary but if the Dems go this route and neglect to include a public option, or a repeal of the anti-trust exemption, along with ditching the excise tax, then the politcal fallout may well be worse than if they just dropped the whole idea of HCR entirely. Another thing, if something worthwhile is going to pass then it should go into effect immediately, not in 2014. Some seem to think that the current Senate bill is better than nothing, but I respectfully disagree.
Clarke represents my district in the House. And I asked her to take this pledge. And she did.
And if she’s reneging on it now, well, all I can say is good for her. The terrain is different now from what it was before. To insist on leveraging the bargaining power of a bloc of these pledges, at this point, is devastating. I think it’s foolish to be overly rigid.
Your mileage may vary, and I’m sending her a note of support.
First, agreed. The Senate bill is worse than nothing.
And you’ve described the exact idea of the piecemeal approach: hcr cannot be dropped entirely, but – in an election year when candidates will be competing for which one can look more populist – make Republicans go on record opposing the ban on pre-existing conditions, etc.
Another Congressional Stepford Wife revealed
Welcome to the 10% of FDL readers.
So you think the Senate bill is acceptable legislation? You think passing it or something very like it will be good for Democrats politically in 2010?
Citizen FrankLynch:
So you think it’s OK for the representativres you vote for to promise you one thing and do another…and that you will vote for them again because they must know sumpthin’ that you don’t???!!! That Brother Frank, is the very definition of stupidity!!
On a loverly Sunday afternoon, can we stay away from the “s” word? :)
Does this express what you really meant to say?
And if the Republicans oppose everything piecemeal, then what?
The Dems are in between a rock and a hard place and they have no one to blame but themselves. What boggles my mind is that they refuse to consider what is so obviously the most popular choice, a public option through reconciliation. Who is doing the political calculus on this one? I”ve listened intently to Obama and read all of his books, so I really have a hard time believing that he is this politically tone-deaf. WTF, do they really want to be run out of office on a rail?
I’m nominating Rep. Clark for the honorary House Negro Award.
Well, I suppose stupidity has many meanings. How would you characterize a fly that constantly buzzes up against a sliding glass door, thinking that mere persistence will carry the day?
There are a number of ways to reframe this. There are those, for instance, who argue that it makes sense to walk away from a mortgage when you have negative equity… It’s akin to breaking a contract. Sometimes there are good reasons to do that, and I’m comfortable with this here.
Might I suggest these words from Dr. Johnson?
“He that has abilities to conceive perfection will not easily be content without it; and, since perfection cannot be reached, will lose the opportunity of doing well in the vain hope of unattainable excellence.”
(It comes from Rambler No. 134, and you can find it here: http://www.samueljohnson.com/perfecti.html#1195 )
I truly believe it’s self-destructive to hold on to this pledge now. Your mileage may vary.
Citizen RBG:
I find that it is always better to explain stupidity in direct terms to stupid people since they wouldn’t understand anologies anyway.
The current Senate bill has negative equity!
Citizen FrankLynch:
Well Citizen, around here all your empty semantics are usually characterized as simply “bullshit”.
Citizen Norske,
That may be the most efficient way to do things, but can we at least try some gentle persuasion first?
FWIW, please pass the ammunition, I’m running mighty low these days.
They’re in the minority, and it would be difficult-to-impossible for them politically to oppose everything piecemeal. It’s “incremental.” They’ve been opposing the “big government” comprehensive approach. They couldn’t oppose individual measures to regulate insurance companies and still mouth populism. The point would be to put them in bed with insurance companies for all to see. Meanwhile, many of the individual measures would actually get the vast majority of Democrats and even some bipartisan support.
Empty semantics are of course in the eye of the beholder. I could similarly do away with your opinions by summarily sweeping all the pieces the chess board, but won’t. My rec is that you move to Prospect Heights, zip code 11238, and vote against her. It’s a nice neighborhood, you’d like it, easy access to subways, close to Prospect Park, the BMA, and BBG.
If you are a butcher by trade, so much the better, those are in short supply. (This has no meaning other than that we don’t have any butchers in the neighborhood.)
My belief is that holding to the pledge not only has negative equity, but is bankrupting.
Citizen RBG:
You can never run outta ammunition. If they stop makin bullets, use a knife. If they stop makin’ knives, use a stick. If trees go extinct and they still ain’t makin’ bullets or knives use a rock…and if ya run outta rocks it ain’t gunna matter anyway cuz we’re all gunna end up in the same place sooner rather than later.
wow, all I did was ask if “someone” who called Obama arrogant didn’t mean “uppity” and got all kinds of shit for that!
And every time I have to ask you to be just the slightest bit more retrospect in your comments, I’m consuming energy if not actual ammo.
Do I need to say more?
Are you saying that the Republicans might all of a sudden have a problem with hypocrisy, or that people who have not recognized by now that they are on the side of the insurance companies would miraculously start paying attention and care? Somehow I do not think the Republicans are too worried about appearances. The lesson they seem to have learned is that obstructionism pays big political dividends, whether that is true or not it worked for them in the MA-Sen election.
The dilemma is whether to give up completely on the worthwhile parts of the Senate bill or to revisit reconciliation if the Republicans refuse to cooperate. Of course if at any time the reconcilation process is invoked it will bring with it the same progressive expectations, meaning a public option.
Just make sure you have a pointy stick.
That was soooooo last week. Can we just move on?
sure, ok by me, I actually wasn’t talking to you.
I’m glad to hear that…and sometimes the man behind the curtain hears other things too.
xin loi
I do appreciate when you are behind the curtain, RBG.
You should come out more often.
DW
luvyaletslunch
Thanks for those good thoughts….and I wish I could.
Frankly, those of us who have been around for awhile should not need the “man behind the curtain” anymore.
Either we can collectively police ourselves and help the newbies understand how we built this dang place, or no one person can hold it up.
The public option is not going to happen. There’s more than enough evidence that there are not the 51+ Democratic Senators who will come forward to support it through reconciliation or otherwise. It’s done.
It’s hard to get into an argument about what Republicans would or would not do if measures would be presented piecemeal. It all amounts to speculation. There’s one thing for sure: if someone doesn’t find a way to at least enact insurance regulations, the health care system will collapse sooner rather than later.
Frankly, I believe that the Senate bill, even with a few “fixes,” is so bad in every sense that it would be better to do nothing. Killing the Senate bill is a must, whether measures could pass one at a time or not.
Agreed.
But your contribution (as well as that of all the other mods, I’ve no idea how many or few there may be) has brought us to this point of general civility and tolerance.
What you say, is the stuff of a post that needs to be heard.
I hope you might consider such a thing, as the next “step” towards the maturiy and measure you speak to, may only happen or be made manifest if the suggestion is put forth.
DW
That’s a good idea and let me see what I can do to make that happen.
In the mean time, for Norske and Raven….I give you this one.
Thank you for your definitive response and for having this discussion with me. I do believe however, that if the reconciliation process is ever begun for the purpose of fixing the Senate bill then the 2/3 of the electorate that favors a public option will never understand why it is not being included. The result being that reconciliation without the public option will be a net loss politically for the Dems, no matter how it turns out. They have a better chance of a positive political outcome using the piecemeal approach, but at the same time they risk the loss of some of these insurance reforms.
Exactly right! It’s insane, but as Jon Walker pointed out yesterday, that’s where they’re going (using reconciliation, but not for a public option or Medicare buy-in). There are House Dems who won’t go for it, and they’re our best hope for stopping it.
The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.
Nothing wrong with 10%. I know that FDL isn’t the be all or the end all, and my liberal bona fides are unimpeachable: http://www.samueljohnson.com/blog/
Hate to say this but most of our black elected officials are not worth a damn. Burris was on tv saying the same sht too and you see what he did. Unfortunately, many of them are in real safe districts so going along to get along is what they do best. You wld think that members of the CBC wld take this opportunity to exercise some leverage with Obama and get some concessions from him for their vote. After all a month ago they were begging him to do sumthin for their constituents, but nah that is not how they operate.
Dems like turtles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y
word up
It would be nice if the first step was in the right direction…
What the Media and Obama Never Understood About the Public Option
Not ONE of you congresspersons has a SAFE SEAT!
: )
Good for her that she bought the insurance companies line and sold out America to the insurance CEO’s, and then lost her seat for it. Thank goodness they have such gutless puppets on their payroll. Good for her for being such a sweet little chickenhead.
: )
Sweet dreams, Yvette!
: )
“Obama offers his party little help. If the election were held today, he would be an albatross to a lot of Democrats. The poll showed that nearly 60 percent of Missouri voters disapprove of the job he’s doing.
Already, 11 House Democrats, including Rep. Dennis Moore of Kansas, are heading for the doors and not seeking re-election, for one reason or another.
“Democrats in the (House) cloakroom are fully aware of the mood that’s out there,” Skelton said. “Folks became anxious and felt like they were not listened to.”
Vicky Hartzler, a Republican former Missouri state legislator hoping to run against Skelton next fall, said Massachusetts was “a reliable predictor of what is to come.”
Skelton, 78, was an unlikely political target only a year ago. He was entering his 33rd year on Capitol Hill, chairman of the powerful House Armed Services Committee at a time when war policy was about to undergo a critical transition.
But growing public anger over the economy and the fractious health care debate sent Democratic stock plummeting. On Tuesday it hit rock bottom in the Massachusetts election.
“The fact that we’re talking about Massachusetts is stunning,” said David Winston, a Republican political strategist. “If you’re a Democrat anywhere in country and you’re looking at Massachusetts, do you have an electorate better than that? Most don’t. So if you’re a Democrat, you’re nervous.””
http://www.kansascity.com/637/story/1704971.html?storylink=omni_popular
Oops! Almost forgot, here’s that link again.
: )
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/rep-yvette-clarke-ny-11th/
and the no pre-existing denials is the part of the bill that is least controversial to anyone who does not work for an Insurance company…..
I very much remember her conversation with nyceve –
have I got this right ? she’s supporting the draconian Nelson language, in a D+35 district ????
can you say Progressive Change Campagin Committee ? I knew ya could :D
along with all the other cool tricks in my new camera’s software pkg, wonder if it includes a ‘waffle effect’. deep pocketed goodness doncha know