Today’s reports continue to point to the reconciliation sidecar strategy as the preferred option on Capitol Hill for moving forward with health care reform. The strategy requires the House to pass the Senate bill “as is” only after the Senate has passed measures with several fixes to the Senate bill that can then pass the senate through budget reconciliation. Reconciliation measures can’t be filibustered, so they only need a simple majority in the Senate, but because of the Byrd Rule, most only deal with budgetary matters. The reconciliation measure would also need to be net budgetary neutral.
There is a lot that needs to be fixed in the Senate bill–and now it can be fixed, using reconciliation to make it palatable. As voted out by the Senate on Christmas Eve, their version of health reform legislation suffers from many problems:
- It lacks a public option.
- It contains insufficient affordability tax credits.
- It lacks a single, national exchange.
- It has no Medicare buy-in or Medicaid buy-in.
- It needs a stronger employer mandate.
- It needs an excise tax fix.
- Special Nebraska Medicaid funding needs to be removed or more fairly allocated.
- It contains an insufficient expansion of Medicaid.
- It lacks a go-ahead for drug re-importation.
- It does not contain provisions for direct Medicare drug price negotiation.
- Annual limits on out-of-pocket costs are much too high.
- Its expansion of community health care centers is insufficient.
- It needs stronger risk adjustment mechanisms (cost neutral, but affects the budget).
Some of these fixes will cost the government money, but many of them will result in substantial savings. The goal should be to pay for the things that cost money with the savings from the things that save money.
What Costs the Government Money?
- Fixing the excise tax (as per agreement with labor unions)–cost $60 billion.
- Extending extra Nebraska Medicaid money to all states–cost $35 billion.
- Increased affordability tax credits and lower annual out-of-pocket limits (there is no one “right” amount, but for the sake of argument I will set a number)–cost $150 billion.
- Increased funding for community health care centers–$10 billion.
- Creating a national exchange (no official CBO score, but cost should not be more than $1 billion).
Total cost: roughly $255 billion.
What Saves Money or Increases Revenue for the Government?
- A strong public option–saves $110 billion (only $25 billion if it is the “level playing field” public option).
- Replacing Senate “free rider” provision with employer mandate–generates an additional $107 billion.
- Medicaid expansion from 133% to 150% FPL–saves $25 billion (in truth, Medicaid should be extended to 200% FPL, or whatever percentage it stops being more cost effective for the government).
- Allowing drug re-importation–saves $19 billion.
- Direct Medicare drug price negotiation (no official CBO score, but should save several billion dollars).
- Early Medicare buy-in for 50-65, after the exchange starts (no official CBO score, but should save several billion dollars).
Total savings/revenue generated: roughly $260 billion (with additional but yet-un-scored savings from Medicare/Medicaid buy-in, and Medicare direct drug price negotiations).
There are many progressive changes that need to be made to the Senate bill. Fortunately, many of the changes that are overwhelmingly supported by the American people–like the public option–would save the government money. That money can be used to fix other problems in the bill, like the structure of the excise tax. The smart move for Congressional Democrats would be to fully pay for any reconciliation sidecar using progressive cost-saving solutions.
This strategy will have four important political benefits:
- Would put popular provisions back in the bill, and therefore could make the whole idea of health care reform more popular.
- Will help save hard-working Americans money.
- Will signal that Democrats are finally standing up to the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries.
- Will not require inclusion of any new tax increases in the reconciliation measure.



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About FDL Action
–”Will signal that Democrats are finally standing up to the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries.”
So it’s agreed then, we’re screwed.
I love and hate this blog.
Today, it’s bouquets of roses to you all.
Why keep the excise tax at all? Selectively enforcing the excise tax on people who make the same income and have the same health insurance isn’t a way to win friends and influence people and will certainly draw a lot of heat. Why not for instance just drop the whole excise tax talk and replace it with the bank fees or some other source?
“I love and hate this blog”
Smeagol?
Note To Obama,
Fire the little weasels – Summers, Geithner, Rhambo and Axelrod. Hire some people with real integrity – Elizabeth Warren, Dean, Grayson, Weiner.
For Hitler’s perspective on ObamaCare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4aQCiRjvZY
Any indicators that the house and senate are seriously looking at this option, or is this a case of “you can lead a donkey to the water but you can’t make him drink?”
But your proposal does nothing for the Insurance Companies, to rescue them (for the life of their current CEOs) from their dying business model.
These companies are shedding customer to keep their profitability. That’s a going out of business strategy.
The medical providers need to be slapped to cut their prices. Medicare does that, your proposals would slap the medical provides.
And you propose to cut Big Pharma’s Revenues.
Let’s see, strike 1, insurance companies headed for shrinkage, strike 2 medical providers get a revenue cut, strike 3, pharma gets a revenue cut.
The brilliance of the O’baucass bill was that all three ave were safe. Sorry, You’re out. No going to happen.
From everything I’m reading today, health care is dead. Doesn’t it seem that way?
Drug re-importation? Why not just get to the point and scrap the shameless Obama-Tauzin sleazedeal and negotiate lower Rx prices? Does the Dem Party’s existence depend on pharma cash? If so why bother with it?
Yes, the discussions are about how to achieve a quiet burial. aka:
Oh look! Over there…mushroom cloud…mass destruction…they hate us…bright shiny object.
Some of you people just don’t get it. Obama is not firing anyone. Those people are doing precisely what he tells them to do.
The problem is not his underlings, the problem is Barack Obama.
If the Democrats couldn’t pass a half-assed bill before Scott Brown, they can’t do it after Scott Brown. And as far as I can tell Obama is fine with that. He has already said the Senate shouldn’t proceed with out Brown.
Progressive healthcare reform would be great. Too bad there isn’t a president or political party that believes in it.
Everybody is saying that reform will die if you don’t do it our way.
LOL I think that’s a standoff – probably just as well.
each and every one of the 13 points you have listed as being “problems”, were features that had to be removed,for the joe lie – bermans of the house and senate to even consider allowing it to be voted on. i think its highly unlikely that even one of them will be contained in any final “product”.
A very wise man said: “Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made.” We are witnessing the making of sausage on C-SPAN every day now, and it ain’t pretty. Nonetheless, despite all dire predictions to the contrary, we are now closer to enacting some form of health care reform in this country than we have ever been. Let’s not drop the ball before we cross the goal line, just to rub it in the Rethugs’ faces! Great article, keep up the good fight.
They could have used reconciliation before Brown was elected. The same figures who decided then to not use this process will decide now not use this process. The point is that the more desirable outcomes avaliable through reconciliation are antithetical to the interests of the decision makers, who have clearly been paid to protect the interests of the insurance and pharma cartels.
You don’t want to cross the goal line with an air/nothing there football. Just saying…
Health care reform??? You’ve got to be kidding??? Better to make sure your papers are in order so we can all get out of this fucking asylum.
Excuse a naive question, to which there could be one of those simple answers. This is the first time I’ve paid close attention to the process. It seems much worse and much more corrupt than anything I’ve lived thru in the past. Is that accurate, or is it just because I’m paying more attention that I notice?
Not. Buying. It.
Based on trust you can believe in?
“no, honestly, I swear, we’ll fix it later, but the plan is sign the Senate bill first. Trust me, we’ll fix it later, I swear, Rahm here my witness, honest top God” ……
Now tops the list of the 10 worst lies of history.
If only.
The fact is, these are good policies, and they’re good ideas. They provide more quality for less cost.
However, liberal ideas are not popular in the world most politicians focus their attention on. Corporate America.
Therefore, they’re not going to happen.
The Democrats WILL NOT step up and do the right thing. They will side with the people that dangle bankrolling their re-election campaigns in front of them forever, and use that leverage to corrupt and pre-empt any actual real liberal policy.
You’re just a voter, all you can do is vote. Corporations can buy votes. And buy elected officials. And buy government agencies. And buy analysts. And buy pundits. And buy policy analysts.
The world we all aspire to cannot come with such outsize power in the hands of the shadow elite.
Agreed. This has never been about improvements, saving money, or benefits to the public. This has been about shaping a bill to conform with a deal made behind closed doors last spring.
Their votes are not needed using reconciliation sidecare
What part of a reconciliation bill passed by the senate before the House votes on the bill has anything to do with trust?
Those are pretty good recommendations Jon, but have you noticed? They ARE NOT listening! They don’t care what is good for the average Joe, or that everyone has “healthcare” and not mandated health insurance. Right now, they are p*ssing themselves trying to figure out how, oh how, can we screw these voters AGAIN, but this time do it without them noticing. Sorry, I know blogs are tired of hearing everyone rant, but, why not? What else is there possibly to do? Put pressure on them? Done already. Give them majorities everywhere? Done already. Help them, donate money, work asses off to get them elected? Done already. I’ve awoke to the simple fact, that Dems are not spineless and inept. They get exactly what they want. There is no way on Gawd’s green earth, THAT MANY people can be that incompetent, stupid, and unrealistic. NO way. Or they wouldn’t all be rich educated lawyers. This dog and pony show has gone on long enough. Pull the pin on this thing, and start over. Betcha they won’t. How much? Betcha they are devastated next election. How much?
Obama hung back when Baucus conducted his circus. When Pelosi passed a bill with a public option(albiet a weak one), and Reid threatened to include one in his, Lieberman suddenly developed issues with it, and Rahm secretly tried to force Reid to capitulate. He was successful, though he couldn’t do it in secret. Then Obama decided to speed this up, after allowing Baucus to drag this along. There were two bills out there, but there was only talk of one – the Senate version. Now that it looks like the progressives have the upper hand, with the Brown victory, Obama wants to go slow again. I suspect the idea is to let the excitement die down and then return to the old stories of “public options does not have the votes” and twist progressive arms while progressive activists are distracted with other, trumped up stories.
I suspect that all the villains of the last few months – Baucus, Snowe, Stupak, the republicans, Reid, even Rahm were simply being forced to take the fall for the one person who has steadfastly refused to let the good bill go through.
Obama, I suspect, never intended a bill with a strong public option through. He never wanted single payer. He never wanted removal of the anti-trust provisions. He never wanted drug reimportation or negotiated Medicare rates. He wanted the individual mandate. He wanted to give everything away to the insurance and pharmaceutical industries.
It is amusing to see stories about how now with the Coakley defeat, progressives and Obama now have a good hand, and can beat back the bad Congressional democrats. If you believe that, I have a bridge I want to sell you.
I am still hoping that I am wrong, and that he has simply been misled by people surrounding him, and will soon let the candidate Obama come through, but I suspect that wont happen.
I fear that candidate Obama was a just a pretty front for the corporations that feared that given the mood of the country in 2008, a McCain or his Democratic equivalent would never get elected.
If we want change and true reform, we are going to have to do it without him.
That’s the top reason why I don’t trust them now. Even if I did trust them, politically this looks challenging because it would be said (correctly) that they are doing this in response to the MA election, so it would come off as an act of desperation and reconciling it now would create a ton of furor when before the criticisms of using reconciliation wouldn’t have resonated as much. The Obama administration hung themselves by requiring 60 votes (I believe they did that in order to control the bill to deliver to their corporate healthcare industry pals and so put up artificial barriers), so when they no longer have the 60 votes, it looks much worse to say reconciliation is going to be used than if they hadn’t set up the original barrier in the first place. Again, I don’t trust that they are working in my best interest, but even if they were, they’ve acted like idiots which from a practical standpoint as a voter isn’t exactly good.
Can we trust there are even 51 votes in the Senate? (inc. Biden if needed?)
This strategy will have four important political benefits
But Gruber’s model says it will lower wages.
I’m really not sure that all this is down to one person “Barack Obama” especially when we see the likes of Netanyahu {& Lieberman] running rings round him.
Painful, but true.
By my count, that’s 28 reasons why Obama and Reid won’t allow this to happen.
This has been the truth to date. The question is: Will the Dems correctly interpret the Brown victory? If they interpret it correctly they will understand that their jobs are lost unless they put through some good legislation. The only chance of this is if we all continue to keep their feet to the fire.
Right now, it is not clear they are going to come up with the correct interpretation but frankly I am hearing much more that would indicate it then I had expected, so I think there is hope.
Burning toes can be very motivating. Keep the heat up.
I dunno, do you honestly think, given everything that’s happened UP TO this point, that Democrats are able to actually realize when they’re ON FIRE?
It is not clear but I have heard more then a few comments about smelling smoke from the media and some of the Dems. Write your congress critters, the POTUS, and the media. Point out when they are ignoring the fire in the room and demand they actually start to put it out.
What I don’t understand is why the Progressive Caucus isn’t backing this approach full throttle. Why would, for instance, Grijalva oppose this, when what he proposes instead is so similar – except for the part about having a snowball’s chance in hell?
I keep thinking about dday’s math, and how very narrow and shaky the margin for doing anything is in the House. I am *hoping* that what we are hearing now is the sound of maneuvering, and not just manure…
I dunno, I think the fact we’ve been doing this for half a year now should have given them enough of a reason to REALIZE what is really going on.
Democrats are either complicit in the problem, which is likely since they’ll now focus even more on DLC-ing and sweethearting corporations to support the party with their money or they’re ignorant, and there’s very little chance that all those people on Capitol Hill are honestly that dumb.
Dems aren’t going to honestly do or give a shit about this issue.
Jon, this is all fantastic but you are overlooking the big elephant in the middle of the room (no pun intended). Matt Taibbi put it perfectly in a Rolling Stone article from this past summer (edited quote):
“The reason a real health-care bill is not going to get passed is because nobody in Washington really wants it. Our government doesn’t exist to protect voters from interests, it exists to protect interests from voters.
The task of the lawmakers on the Hill, at least as they see things, is to create the appearance of having done something. And that’s what they’re doing.”
The full article here: http://www.rollingstone.com/nationalaffairs/index.php/2009/08/19/matt-taibbi-on-health-care-reform-sick-and-wrong/
The White House never intended for this thing to fly. There are numerous puzzling incidents where the WH intervened (via Rahm, designated bad cop) to actually strong arm his own party members into shoving through a weak bill and Obama’s inexplicable decision to hold numerous meetings with GOP and Lobbyists while refusing to meet one single time with the Progressive Caucus regarding either bill.
What kind of President refuses to meet with members of his own party?
It was not by weakness or incompetence this thing got so screwed up, it was by design.
The system is rigged.
Pretty easy to explain. The Democrats aren’t REALLY going to do anything more than the Republicans will.
The minute their campaign contributions and corporate money is threatened, they’ll whip themselves in line for the people they really represent.
Actually there is a way to have the senate bill pass the house and sit on Pelosi’s desk until the reconciliation bill is passed. If the reconciliation bill isn’t passed, Pelosi doesn’t have to send the senate bill to Obama for signing.
I think stuff is still going on behind the scenes — and about the WH not being involved: Rahm not being involved — yeah right~! I’m thinking ‘the go slow’ and ‘the posturing’ is just foot dragging/a short interlude until Scottie can be included in the Charade.
Because the President refuses to even meet with Progressive Caucus despite several letters and two direct requests for a meeting on health care.
Rahm calls them a pain in the ass and they are immediately marginalized.
One would think that given the Terrible, Horrible, No Good week he probably just had, President Obama might reconsider his approach. But instead, I think he just started re-working his speeches.
Le sigh….
Please tell me you didn’t JUST NOW figure that out.
with the strong incumbent protection racket [apparently Obama is going to a Reid fundraiser], ‘the Club’ mentality, skeletons in all their closets. Depends if they are more scared of the voters, or their corporate patrons etc. Also, I don’t like using ‘those machines’ to vote on.
Pelosi is probably the only one of the Big Three (Obama, Reid, and Pelosi) of the Democrats that realizes what a massive tidal wave of electoral losses this past year is going to amount to come the next electoral cycle.
But even she’s pretty powerless to affect the party because the party leaders have already decided that the DLC playbook is the one to go by. Pelosi is far more liberal than one ought to be than the DLC really likes, so she’s going to be fought tooth and nail in every liberal issue she tries to get through.
In short, she’s fucked. Obama and Reid are not going to support her and worse they’ll put pressure on her to moderatize and move right any policy she advances in the House. Which will then just lead to more Democratic losses.
She can’t really do much unless she publicly and openly rebels against Obama, and she knows that at this point it’ll be too little, too late. Even if she were to go up against him, she’d be accosted and torn to shreds by the MSM, pundits, cult of personality Obama supporters, et al.
In short, she’s got no options but to be dragged along with the DLC into the Democratic Abyss next election.
bah. they don’t need to meet with Obama. he’s got nothing they need or want. he’ll sign what they give him to sign.
Nah, I’ve been saying it for a while, and getting quite a bit of guff from Democrats that say ‘primary challenges are the way to go’, etc. etc.
The sad truth of the matter is that progressives and liberals cannot and will not win. Not under the current system, not under the current party. And now, with the whole floodgate of corporate campaign cash, probably not ever.
And that’s coming from a steadfast liberal.
Hmmm… She’s already got enough knives in her back from some high profile ‘centrist’ and so-called progressive bloggers attacking her by just being the messenger — that progressives think they are justified in having some progressive concessions made.
I have to agree. Only bloggers and regular folk are still talking about getting health care passed with actual reforms. Some people in Congress are all talking about “scaling back”, or only passing the Senate debacle as-is, but most of them are just looking for some way to avoid the appearance of personal responsibility for any part of it. We’re not going to see any health care reform, or financial reform, or climate change legislation or ANYTHING from this Congress except the right-wing deficit squad which will destroy Medicare and Social Security. See? Even during supposedly Democratic administrations, the Republicans and their corporate scumbag pals are busily tearing down America and looting the charred and smoking hull of our nation for the last few pennies they can snatch from the old, the sick and the starving masses. That’s the Real America!
Don’t be such a defeatist! Progressives and Liberals (and thank you for making that distinction) CAN change the game but we have to change our approach.
Petitions, nasty letters, phone calls (ie: armchair activism) – ain’t gonna cut it. Especially when the Banksters and K-Street Whores have permanent office space right down the hall from your Representatives.
But if a group of say – oh, 2 million people showed up on the steps of Capital Hill during a joint session of Congress, those wimps would completely wet themselves.
I doubt there is enough National Guard left in America to even control a crowd of 2 million quite frankly.
Let’s embrace our Governments approach to fighting Terrorism – because after all, I consider this Economic Terrorism – and “take the fight to their door”!
It’s the only way really. Either that or give up.
Actually, YES he does. It was not the House Leader or the Senate Leader that handed the bargaining power to Lieberman, it was OBAMA!
If he marginalizes Progressives, then the only option is for them to become basically a “splinter faction” from their own party. Not good, not productive and it certainly won’t get Health Care Reform passed.
I mean if we are talking about supporting a coup within our party then we should simply talk THIRD PARTY! Not Democratic Party infighting.
That won’t move us forward.
I guarantee you that such an act would only serve to advance the corporate and right-wing agendas.
They’ve painted us as terrorists. Liberal bad. Progressive bad. Hate flag. Hate troops. Hate freedom. Hate America.
Now, granted, this approach could be tried, but you’re assuming that the minds of the people in Congress can be changed. They can’t. They’re not going to change no matter what you do. They’re going to keep getting campaign money as long as they’re elected and voting in favor of corporate America over real America.
Honestly, I say this after considering every practical strategy on affecting real change from every avenue I can accomplish. There is nothing we can do that will have a genuine effect that will change the problem.
Um, ok.
There’s a bus swinging by my house pretty soon did you want to step in front of it and end it all?
I mean honestly, THERE IS SOMETHING WE CAN DO.
Free your mind – the rest will follow.
Oh and another point – When you say it advances the Right Wing agenda…what DOESN’T advance the Right Wing agenda these days?
And I’m pretty ok being called a terrorist. In my parents generation they were called that as well for protesting the Vietnam War.
They were called names and they were sprayed with hoses AND they helped end the war AND the draft.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained. The reward in life is always in proportion to the risk.
You’re missing the absolutely most important problem – the individual mandate. If it passes, it will never be repealed – “fix it later” will just not work, because all momentum will be in the hands of the insurers to preserve it. A runaway freight train, and there will be a train wreck. This is politically toxic like plutonium for those who enact it (read: Democrats). If you think Scott Brown was a problem, just keep this provision in the “reform.” This is absolutely the worst giveaway.
I am surprised that the writer did not even address this, one way or another.
And that something is?
I say this to you with all honesty, you’re not going to stop them with the current system. And I can honestly tell you that because I know how to think like them. I know how to think like a corporatist, a Republican, and a conservative. They never yield.
They know how to exploit division to their ultimate advantage. And the Democrats are full of desperate divisions trying to stay together with duct tape.
ANY hint of weakness, ANY hint of dissent, and they will use it against us.
They reject the legitimacy of anybody to govern but their own, and do literally whatever they can to stop that. There is nothing you can do to them that they cannot come back from, and there is nothing you can try to do to them that they can’t use to their own advantage.
My question is whether Kent Conrad, as chair of the budget committee, would allow any of this. He’s on record against the public option and Medicare/Medicaid expansion. On another topic, I would also add shortened biologics exclusivity to the list of progressive demands.
That, and others above, are some pretty smug comments given NONE of you know what the House is going to do. And until the House rolls over its card, NO one knows what the Senate might do.
Pelosi says she don’t have the votes to sign off on the Senate Bill as is.
We wait, that’s what we do, and if you WANT progressive HCR, which I think many of you DON’T, get on the phones, email’s to Pelosi, your reps, and your Senators to show the progressive tide and the tide of 60% or more of the general population polled who WANT a vibrant PO.
Till the House decides, you folks don’t know squat, and yer blowing smoke and fear.
Wait. And See.
THEN post your feelings and anger.
Course, I’ll be the one to laugh and sneer at you if good things DO come of where we are at as of today.
Derision WILL come your way . . . . ;-)
You are quitting two steps too soon, before it’s over.
That’s not very progressive.
That’s fine, be proud of being called a terrorist. In fact, I’m sure Fox, Corporate America, the RNC, et al, are gleeful of it. They’ve got it so deep in people’s minds that liberals are terrorists that when liberals wear the epithet as a mark of honor it just sends more people running into the waiting arms of said Right Wing Agenda and they’ll use that to further marginalize you.
I have a similar reaction, but I have always suspected the worst and felt it WAS corrupted as bad as USSR in its heyday. Since the 70′s.
Bottom line, it’s pretty fuckin corrupt, top to bottom.
And it’s certainly MORE obvious to the masses than it’s ever been . . .
Ya didn’t read, the post sez reconcile changes FIRST, then pass.
That’s the DESIRED outcome.
We have to wait for the reality.
Two steps too early to panic, whine, or bail, much less criticize about the kabuki taking place daily, which way too many folks seem to be falling for.
I suspect you are correct – but for the nation’s sake, I hope you are wrong.
The pass the Senate bill in the House once the Senate passes budget recon. changes is a solid position to take – we will see if Obama wants to be a progressive liberal – or just likes to pretend.,
BUT THE OTHER OPTION IS budget recon with a Medicare expansion and aMedicaid expansion offset with some revenue changes like the
# Medicaid expansion from 133% to 150% FPL–saves $25 billion (in truth, Medicaid should be extended to 200% FPL, or whatever percentage it stops being more cost effective for the government).
# Allowing drug re-importation–saves $19 billion.
# Direct Medicare drug price negotiation (no official CBO score, but should save several billion dollars).
# Early Medicare buy-in for 50-65 in 2011 (no official CBO score, but should save several billion dollars).
with the Medicaid expansion limited by the revenue generated by the above.
OK — thinking ‘happy thoughts’ now.
Jon, another great post in a series of great posts.
Thank you, I only wish folks would read ALL the words, and not just the one’s they don’t like.
*G*
individual mandate could be fixed via buy in from age 0 Medicare with cost a percentage of income – forget what the ins co’s are doing as we are moving folks to Medicare.
We wait, that’s what we do, and if you WANT progressive HCR, which I think many of you DON’T, get on the phones, email’s to Pelosi, your reps, and your Senators to show the progressive tide and the tide of 60% or more of the general population polled who WANT a vibrant PO.
This is about the four millionth time I’ve heard somebody say we should do this, and it STILL isn’t changing anything. Face it. It’s not going to. Democrats refuse to listen to you. It ain’t gonna happen. You could set fire to yourself in front of their campaign office and it wouldn’t matter.
Christ, again? YOU DON’T KNOW if anyone’s listening because we don’t know what the House will do!
We DO know, the House Progs are holding out for better, and Pelosi don’t have the votes to PASS the Senate Bill as is.
Please, it’s misleading as to the reality at hand.
When it’s over, and there are only two steps to go before we know what it will be, you can cry Chicken Little all ya want if the final outcome sucks, and I’ll be right there with yas.
Till then?
We wait, and act like patient progs and hammer Pelosi, reps and senators daily.
Pressure’s on, they FEEL it, and we can exert MORE pressure NOW.
Stop crying, start dialing and emailing, NOW is the time for FDL Pup Action, if you want to have a voice in it at all.
Calls and emails, to Pelosi, Reid, Obama, reps and senators.
NOW!
You are on it like Sugar Hill Gang on Apache . . .
You don’t KNOW what the Prog House Caucus is doing, or believes.
All you know is that Pelosi don’t have the votes, and the Progs are the votes she don’t have.
You DON’T, we DON’T, know what they are advocating, or what the WH is pushing, or anything else.
Till we DO know, wasted fonts discussing it.
There is immense pressure on the WH and Congress now that wasn’t there before.
That’s the rebuttal to your posit.
Add to the pressure, if you really care, NOW is the time to make them calls (800 #’s google) and send the emails.
I’m goin nutz repeating this shit . . guess I’m gonna hafta diary it . . . wonder if I’ll get 800 wingfuckingnut replies . . . .
David, those are the little gems of enlightenment that help keep this whole view of ours from outside a bit hopeful.
Now, are you SURE of this? Got linky?
I love it, not busting chops, but a link would substantiate it, and I’ll use it in a diary!
There is immense pressure on the WH and Congress now that wasn’t there before.
Bull. Voters have been vocal about their displeasure for months now. Liberals and progressives have been sending letters, blowing up phones, shooting off emails, signing petitions since the middle of last year. It wasn’t that the message wasn’t getting through, it was that the message wasn’t ACCEPTED. Rahm Emanuel even SPELLED THIS FACT OUT.
Democrats are NOT going to do anything but kowtow to the newly free Corporate America and do whatever they can to keep more of that cash coming their way.
Good danged fucking heysoos marimbas, do you know ANYTHING about the procedure that’s in place?
House, Senate, The Leaders, and APPOINTED COMMITTE by same are meeting with Obama/Rama daily.
Whining about Obama not meeting with the Prog Caucus is like complaining a private can’t walk in to talk to the Army’s Top Man in the Pentagon. That shit don’t happen.
Interesting OPINION!
I don’t have the heart and will to reply to it all, perhaps another Pup will . . .
No facts to substantiate it, though.
Yep. I’d say it is an interesting OPINION. I have absolutely no problem playing Devil’s Advocate. And I’m looking forward to someone having the heart or will to reply to it.
Thanks for your OPINION, but you lack the data and facts to persuade me of the present reality.
Which is, we don’t KNOW what the House is going to do, and we don’t know how the Senate will respond, once the House turns over its cards.
If you want to cave and go home early do it, and spare me the misery of your fonts.
I’m sorry if I’m being rude, but I’m TIRED of a buncha newbies coming in here and trying to tell folks who have been debating this stuff since LibbyGate . . . and doing it without anything but their OPINIONS!
We all have one . . . they should be STATED as such . . . but not as reality, or factual based information.
There is IMMENSE pressure NOW, that wasn’t there BEFORE!
Get it?
New day, new ballgame, different from before.
Geez . . . *palmtoface*
Well now, thanks for saying so!!!
Admitting you have an opinion is the first step to writing substantiated comment with attributions.
I welcome your first attempts and gladly await them.
Growth is good.
I was under the impression that reconciliation could only be used for items that would save the government money. That bills that go through reconciliation are pruned line by line by the senates rule arbitrator of any bills that cost the government money over a specific time span. If so doesn’t this prevent the first recommendations from passing?
So all that pressure from the left that FDL has been whipping up for months is… non-existent? That pressure only SUDDENLY sprouted up today or within the near present?
All those petitions, fights over public options, fights against excise taxes, and all those hundreds of diaries here on FDL that accompanied them, that was… what, politeness but not real pressure?
Excuse me if I take point with your attempting to reframe recent history by assuming that there’s more pressure now than before.
Hey…! I’ve been heavily involved since Alito… remember him. I was calling Senators until my finger went numb. And, then Cantwell [DLC] et. others let him through, and as for the Senate hearings… sigh.
OK – back to happy thoughts.
Chill out, stop swearing and screaming at everyone and take a pill.
Are you here to add to the discussion or just spit hostility at everyone.
Get a grip.
progressives think they are justified in having some progressive concessions made
Maybe they would like a cookie, too. What sort of politician thinks “I’m justified” is a persuasive argument about anything?
But, the mandate will never get “fixed” once it is enacted. While your idea of Medicare for all from birth (which seems to be a single payer option) may well allow everyone who wants to avoid private insurance to do so, if they can afford it, this change must be made before the individual mandate is ever enacted. If the mandate is enacted, the insurers will have an even tighter stranglehold on Congress and will prevent its repeal or any amendment of consequence.
Jon Walker, what say ye? The individual mandate greatly affects the budget, whether it is in or out. So, what do you think should be done about it as far as “reconciliation” is concerned?
The truth hurts.
Republicans can survive by never delivering to their constituents, because their voters vote based on things out of fear. Republicans get votes by manipulating the worst in humanity. Fear, hatred, exploitation, selfishness, etc.
Democrats cannot, because their supposed ideology is based on the better side of human nature. And they might do better at it if that ideology mattered to them more than their re-elections. But as it stands, they use the same ‘worst of humanity’ tactics in compromising their agenda for corporate money to funnel into re-elections. And because they make backroom sweetheart ‘worst of humanity’ deals instead of standing up for what they claim to support, Republicans easily paint them as NO BETTER and regain power.
The Democrats are continuing to play the Republican game and thinking they can win. And until they realize that they need to be the Party OF the Better, FOR the Better, and BY the Better, and actual do so, they’ll never be anything more than a slight contrast to the red seats.
Ok, I’ll bite Mr. Nattering Nabomb Of Negativity.
So what is the plan?
Tell us what your approach is?
Quitting?
Well, I think they felt justified when the MA election results came through loud and clear — coupled with the national polling of voters ‘outside the beltway’ and away from K-Street — that they really would like a public option as well.
The individual mandate isn’t going anywhere. In fact, the individual mandate was made a lot stronger and more painful to disobey in the Senate version. Expect that same tougher language in whatever hits the President’s desk.
They WANT to make private insurance more entrenched and more powerful, so that private insurance will keep giving them campaign money. And since private insurance can now give them AS MUCH AS THEY BLOODY WANT, Democrats aren’t going to do anything to rock the boat from the moneyboxes.
Reading the various news stories on this it sounds like neither the House nor the Senate will budge since each feel like they did their job in passing a bill and Obama being the non-leader that he is has told them to work it out amongst themselves…so his solution is to do the same thing that he’s been doing that got us into this – sitting back and relaxing while he outsources the work to two competing houses of Congress that have no central leadership. Obama claims to be so busy, yet he’s always outsourcing work and he’s got a huge staff for what he doesn’t outsource.
Nice alliteration.
And actually, I’m not going to bother to advance a plan, because nothing we can do within the current system is going to change anything.
The only thing that will stop it all is revolution, and that’s at least another decade away.
I’ll take that as “Quitting”!
Personally, I would rather die fighting on my feet than live crawling on my knees.
I happen to agree with you on that one. And I don’t plan to live crawling on my knees.
I just want you to realize that there’s no action you or the rest of us can take that will change anything. We’ve done it all short of violent revolution. We’ve tried. They haven’t listened. They’ve consigned themselves, and the rest of us, to our inevitable destruction.
I gotta say, you are the most positive person I’ve read online in a while. Just a question. How old are you? Not trying to take anything away from your points, but you sound like you honestly think this will work. Do you want examples of why it won’t? Here is one. It is related and it isn’t. Iraq invasion. Drumbeats to war. EVERYBODY in the entire world mobilized. Mass demonstrations that had not been seen in decades. What happened? Shall we let Cheney explain?
Exactly. It’s like repeatedly hitting your head against a brick wall, hoping this time you don’t have to mortgage the house, to pay the doctor for stitching you up! And like I said upthread, this is planned. There is no way in hill that many Democratic Party congresscritters are that gullible, that spineless, and that stupid. NO WAY. Or they would not keep getting elected over and over and over. The electorate may be dense at times, but it’s highly unlikely they’d elect an entire Congress of Sarah Palins for decades. I don’t buy it anymore. But, I now can, if only I was Me Corporation Inc. (TM)
Gorgeous,marvelous.I wish everything in this list,but nothing will happen
because Obama,his crooked negotiator Rham and the bunch of fat,corrupts and
money taking from big corps senators don’t want reform in this way,instead
they still want big insurers,pharmas etc to steal money from hard working
americans.Public option is dead and buried,cheap medication importation is dead,medicare buy in is dead etc,etc.Obama is not going to put aside the false bipartisanship,there won’t be reconciliation process in the senate,
Dems in the senate are afraid of republicans.
No, they’re just posturing so that they can pretend that they’re still interested in what happens to the public. They care first and foremost about getting re-elected and confounding their opposition than they do about doing the right thing for the nation or advancing a liberal agenda.
If they wanted to be better, they would be. But being this way gets them lots of money! The very sad fact is, if they REALLY wanted to put liberalism and the American people first, they very easily could. They just don’t want to.
You’re right, Dems are afraid of Republicans. But Dems are ACTUALLY afraid of Republicans getting more money from Corporate America than they do. That’s why all of their proposals and major legislation never harms Corporate America. They don’t want it to.
I agree with you totally. Don’t want to be as negative as I am, but everything humanly possible has been done in the last 2 years to sway these people’s brains in Congress, and it isn’t working. The faster that progressives realize this, the sooner we can actually attempt changes by creating another party. A REAL party. It’s quite obvious D’s and R’s are exactly the same. No more holding of the nose and voting for the lesser of two evils. It’s ludicrous and is getting us nowhere.
Don’t know until you make them vote.
Exactly, i’ve tried to write that.
I’m not trying to be negative either. I’m trying to be real. Democrats have had every conceivable opportunity to walk what they talk and they’ve refused and passed the buck for failing to do so to somebody else.
We’ve done everything we could to force their hands. We’ve complained til we were blue in the mouth. We wrote letters, made phone calls, attacked conservatives, on and on and on, we did, we did, we did.
They’re the ones that didn’t. They did only what they wanted, and that was to prioritize corporate America over real America because corporate America has enough money to bankroll their re-elections.
And progressives continuing to support them despite this will just continue to enable their behavior.
Voting for a politician who doesn’t care what you think, what you do, or what you say is stupid.
Well, i’ve been reading several newspapers,and i think Massachussets was loss
due to the lack of votes coming from people that previously voted Obama and Dems,and not because tea baggers and reps , i seriously think that if nothing is done by dems with this flawed bill,they are putting at risk a lot
with progressives.Uhhhm
The truth: Politicians don’t represent us – they represent whatever will get them elected and reelected. So that’s what they do – do whatever they can do to get elected and reelected. All politicians are like that – and people may seem to represent Progressive views, but they represent one view above all others – themselves.
This is the axiom of politics, and it has been proved time and again.
Granted, self-interest has a lot of place in politics, but it’s far from the only thing. Voters don’t always vote based simply on themselves. Liberals, for example, who tend to be wealthier, vote for people that will most likely increase their taxes. However, liberals tend to have a lot more of interest in casting their vote for what they want to see in government than simple self-interest. And conservatives don’t always vote in their own self-interest, sometimes they vote in favor of people that they think will advance their ideology.
I’d say it’s really not as simple as self-interest, but the axiom of politics is, regardless of what voters are interested in, if they SAY they want something honestly, and you ignore them, you’re going to pay a price.
Jon, I see two problems. First, there’s still no regulatory structure to enforce the outlawing of rescissions and denials due to preconditions, while on the other hand, there’s still the individual mandate enforced by the IRS.
Second, there’s nothing that will move up the reforms so that people see benefits by the 2010 election, a real issue for Democrats in the campaign.
For these reasons, I still think that the legislation you’re advocating: the Senate Bill along with the fixes is not worth passing, and will do more harm than good.
I think the House should forget about the Senate bill and originate a bill to be passed under budget reconciliation. The bill should expand Medicare to all under 18 and over 45. It should expand Medicaid to all falling within 200% of the Federal Poverty Level. It should close the Medicare “donut hole.” It should allow Medicare and Medicaid to negotiate pricing with Pharma, the way the VA does. The House should propose paying for it with increased taxes on those making over 250,000 and should create new tax brackets with higher marginal rates for those making more than 500,000, 1,000,000, 2,500,000, and $5,000,000 annually. The House should also set an implementation date for this reform of August 2010. Then they should send the reconciliation bill to the Senate and call for quick passage.
I also think that all progressives should fully support this bill since it will be a big step toward universal coverage, while at the same time not precluding further incremental steps in short order, if private insurance companies don’t change their ways. Progressives should cast the issue in terms of getting out from under big corporations that don’t care for and have been killing people. And they should challenge opposition by asking which side the opposition is on: that the side of the corporations, or the side of the people.
I’d agree with you. However, progressives and liberals don’t GET this question, because the policy presented before is always strategically compromised. And while progressives and liberals are busy debating and fighting amongst ourselves over whether or not we should support it, the leadership is using our distraction to attempt a push for the right-wing at how moderate and unliberal the bill is and how much they should like it.
Progressives and liberals are good at getting used, and the Democratic leadership is just as good at using us as the Republican leadership is.
Your response states: The individual mandate isn’t going anywhere. In fact, the individual mandate was made a lot stronger and more painful to disobey in the Senate version. Expect that same tougher language in whatever hits the President’s desk.”
Your response makes no sense at all. The individual mandate is going somewhere, namely to Obama’s desk unless it is stopped, and I see no evidence that the left is doing anything of consequence to stop it.
The best that I see is assertions that, somehow, the individual mandate will be completely tamed if we get a true public option. That’s whistling past the graveyard: First, the individual mandate is a super-power that is way stronger than the public option. Second, please tell me when and how the public option will ever survive.
Get real, folks. The individual mandate will be the death-knell for the working poor, the union workers, and everyone else who falls through the cracks of the various BS patchwork exceptions and immunities proposed for the millions who will otherwise be forced to buy the commercial swiss-cheese-coverage health insurance “coverages” provided by the likes of CIGNA, AETNA, et al. This is NOT an equally balanced see-saw situation of individual mandate vs. public option!
Meanwhile, where’s Jon Walker? Will he respond?
Wait, what?
The phrase ‘isn’t going anywhere’ in this sense means it’s not going AWAY. I was using it to describe that, yes, as you say, the individual mandate IS STAYING.
Democrats want the individual mandate because it enriches their corporate donors. And those donors will then enrich them.
Yeah. That was kind of my point. Sorry if it wasn’t entirely clear.
So this is the well-thought-out “next step” for the FDL “kill the bill” strategy?? Three weeks ago FDL had multiple posts with “investigative journalism” tackling that wicked Gruber! We had the “Action” plan. We were jousting with the Paul Krugman’s and Andrew Sullivan’s of the world….Now? We’ve got that “side car”, “reconciliation” thingy. The FDL intelligencia refuses to read the tea leaves. You’ve overreached. There’s no HCR coming. Somehow, that concept was never really considered by the “peasants with pitchforks”. But hey! You won! HCR has indeed been “killed”. Now what? Please spare us the 13 point plan. Try an admission that you never really had all the answers…..just the “outrage”.
Thank you for the clarification. So, we are certainly agreed that the individual mandate is being mainlined straight to Obama’s signature pen.
I hope that we both (and the majority of FDL participants) agree that the individual mandate is a DISASTER for both the public and for the Democratic Party. Remember the free political advice of John Shadegg (now retiring US Rep, R-Ariz) who says, entirely correctly in my view, that the individual mandate is political suicide by the Dems.
So, what are they (and we) doing about it?? I remain very, very disappointed that Jon Walker and Jane Hamsher have not stated, unequivocally, that the individual mandate must disappear (i.e., not go anywhere near the President’s desk). Then, and only then, can we talk about the public option — a so-far orphaned and terribly weakened possibility, that should not in any way be considered to be a counterbalance of truly equal weight and power to the individual mandate.
nd, how many times need I repeat it??, the individual mandate must be killed with a stake through its evil heart BEFORE any final decision on a public option is made.
And, never, never, “we’ll fix it later” — it NEVER HAPPENS.
Please spare us the 13 point plan. Try an admission that you never really had all the answers…..just the “outrage”.
Well, Jane Hamsher got to appear on television a bunch of times. That’s got to count for something.
love a lot of your suggests for improvements, but have problems with some of them:
i don’t care unless it’s pre-populated with a very large number of pople (includes all medicaid, s-chip, etc programs and all newborns after a certain date would be extra good) and the supporting regulatory structure is in place to support it’s success.
otherwise it’s just stupid policy and probably worse than nothing if it fails to deliver (on cost and quality of care)
i don’t care. the exchange in MA is useless and adds a lot of administrative overhead. i want good regulation and enforcement, i don’t the exchange adds enough to justify it’s cost.
medicare buy-in is very stupid policy. medicare expansion by age block and universal or near universal coverage is good policy. let’s get the differences straight and support the good policy.
medicaid expansion is not the answer unless reimbursement rates are fixed (which means increased to at least medicare levels). provider access is a real problem and that means medicaid offers a significantly lower quality of care. expanding it without addressing that problem will make the problem worse for everyone.
…..
finallly even with all the fixes everyone can think of, this is bill would be at best a stop gap measure that does not actually solve the problems with our healthcare system — rather it kicks the can down the road, offering some temporary relief while empowering the insurance industry (unless the mandate is nixed).
so, one requirement of any bill progressives support is that it MUST not make it more difficult for individual states, or groups of states, to implement their own single payer systems. better yet would be provisions to support that kind of state based experimentation.
there are several states actively working on this with bills in progress and fed action which preempts this effort MUST be opposed.
trusting obama to sign both the reconciliation bill and not just the senate bill.
do you trust obama?
i don’t.
do you trust pelosi?
i don’t.
thought experiment:
a million people surrounding capital hill on a multi-day sit in saying they won’t leave until the bill of their choice is passes (something like hr 676 for comprehensive universal healthcare would be needed to motivate and inspire people to care enough to act).
hundreds of people surrounding every district office doing the same.
thousands more doing support – media, legal, medical, supply, relief, etc.
…….
not saying it would be easy. just saying it is possible and it doesn’t require fair elections or even voting.
that’s not progressive hrc, that’s neoliberal hrc. might be worth supporting as a compromise, but please, let’s not confuse neoliberal policy with progressive policy.
thank you.
here’s to hope that you will have cause to laugh and sneer at me to your hearts content. i will be very pleased if that is the outcome.
Note To Obama,
Fire the little weasels – Summers, Geithner, Rhambo and Axelrod. Hire some people with real integrity – Elizabeth Warren, Dean, Grayson, Weiner.
Germany’s perspective on Obama
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4aQCiRjvZY
I have long stated the individual mandate is only acceptable if people have the choice of a government run option. No one should be force to buy a private product.