Now that Martha Coakley has lost, it seems that there are only two paths to passing health care reform–and both use reconciliation. One path would be a new, redesigned bill passed using reconciliation. The other would be to force the House to pass the Senate bill as is. Given that the Senate bill is unlikely to gain majority support in the House, the only way House Democrats would accept passing the Senate bill without changes is with a promise to fix the bill using a separate piece of legislation passed through budget reconciliation.
The top issue that would need to be “fixed” is the so-called “Cadillac” excise tax on health insurance, which is, in reality, a teacher tax. The “fix,” negotiated by the labor unions, would reduce revenue for the bill by $60 billion over ten years. It would also be safe to assume that the House Democrats would like the reconciliation “fix” to spend more money on several other segments of health care reform, such as increasing affordability tax credits, fully closing the Medicare Part D donut hole, providing more money to community health centers, adding additional funding to state insurance regulators, sending more money to state Medicaid programs. All these changes would cost several billion dollars.
Since the reconciliation instructions for health care reform require the measure to reduce the deficit by some amount, fixing the teacher tax and all the other above improvements would need to be paid for. These could be paid for either with additional tax increases, or with other popular progressive cost control ideas, like the public option and drug re-importation. The strong public option that would pay Medicare rates plus 5% is projected by the Congressional Budget Office to save $110 billion. Removing the Medicare provider opt-out clause would save an additional $91 billion, for a total savings of roughly $200 billion.
A public option designed to pay Medicare rates plus 5% probably would be unable to garner majority support in both chambers, but the evidence strongly indicates that the “level playing field” public option–which would pay negotiated rates–could get majority votes in both the House and Senate (through budget reconciliation). The CBO has determined that even this weaker public option would still save the government $25 billion. There are several ways to slightly strengthen the public option to enhance cost reduction. For example, a trigger could be designed that would be pulled if costs on the exchange increased too quickly; the public option could then begin charging Medicare rates plus 5%. One such trigger on payment change for the public option has been projected to save the government an additional $25 billion.
Besides the public option, there are several other progressive cost control improvements that could accompany the Senate bill through use of reconciliation. Expanding Medicaid eligibility from 133% FPL to 150% FPL would save around $25 billion. Some form of Medicaid buy-in for people between 133%-200% FPL could also be designed to save billions.
Drug re-importation and direct Medicare drug price negotiations are both potential progressive sources of savings. Drug re-importation would save the government $19.4 billion and save consumers $100 billion over ten years, according to the CBO. Additional prudent purchasing powers for the exchanges, and higher minimum medical loss ratios for insurance companies are two ideas that could potentially be scored by the CBO as saving money. Shortening the exclusivity period of biosimilars would save the government money, although it may or may not run afoul of the Byrd rule.
These are all popular progressive cost control ideas that were not adopted in the Senate bill because they could not get 60 votes–but they could get a simple majority. These progressive, money-saving ideas (like the public option and Medicaid expansion) could be used to pay for the necessary improvements to the Senate bill that would cost money (like fixing the teacher tax and increased affordability tax credits).
Having the savings from the very popular public option pay for fixing the excise tax on health care benefits would be the politically smart thing to do. It would look like reconciliation was being used to improve cost control in the bill, and make the reform more popular in general. The only other option is to pay for the fix to the excise tax with other new tax increases. That would be a very bad political move. This would make the reconciliation measure look like a corrupt give-away to labor unions, with new tax increase to boot.
Democrats in Congress have a stark choice. If they want to pass the Senate bill as is in the House, but fix many of its worst problems using reconciliation, they will need to pay for some of these improvements. They can pay for these changes with smart, progressive cost control ideas, like the public option, supported overwhelmingly by the American public, or the can pay for them with more new taxes. If this decision is not a political no-brainer for Democrats, then they don’t deserve to win re-election.



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Sounds about right. Whatever is going to happen will have to happen pretty quickly. Few dems want to be talking about this past Valentines Day.
Bringing up the public option again would seem to be a non-starter- but we’ll see.
Really long post
Really long post
Sorry Jon but I stopped reading when you say, “The top issue that would need to be “fixed” is the so-called “Cadillac” tax on health insurance….” (I’ll get back to reading the rest of your post later, but for now let me assert: the top issue that needs to be “fixed” is its omission of Dorgan’s Amendment.
But, truth is, there are just too many very important issues to address one by one when the decision makers are so ready to pounce to close this sorry deal. The best course of action is to hand anyone who’s interested your list of reasons why the Senate Bill STINKS!
The post points out how the dorgan amendment would pay for the excise tax fix.
I do AGREE JON, got to hand them an approach. p.s. The post duped itself, leading to DanRockridge’s comment, & it’s too good not to clean up.
I’ve commented on this a couple of times in the past 48 hours but I’m going to say again at the risk of being redundant. The idea of the House passing the Senate bill and then negotiating/voting on improvements intended to be passed in the Senate via reconciliation with 51 votes is looney, if the House vote on the Senate bill must come first.
But it doesn’t. The House can insist that the Senate first pass the negotiated improvements, and then and only then vote on the improvements and the Senate bill at the same time, or even vote on the Senate bill only after the House has passed the improvements.
At least that’s my interpretation of what I’ve been able to find. See Jeff Davis at TNR.
FDL’s discussion of sidecar reconciliation will be elevated if you and Jane make this point explicitly. My apologies if I missed it. Many in the dialogue still do not seem to be thinking in this context.
David Waldman address this issue http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/1/20/827478/-Can-health-insurance-reform-still-pass
Of course this stategy would only be agreed to if the Senate voted first had it ready to take the vote the same day, or something other “right away” time to make it impossible for the Senate to back out.
OT Why is the blog roll appearing in the middle of the post?
Sorry, fixed now.
Why is it called the “teacher tax”? Thanks.
Health reform is DEAD. Bauchus and his pals job were to drag it out for months and they did what they were hired to do. Then they obstructed any real reform after the endless delays. The Goper wing did what the Gopers wanted them to do. These quislings aren’t Dems. they’re just Corp. shills.
Is OBAMA a real progressive? this is the million dollar question.
a real progressive president would have went this route 6 months a go.
does Obama really care about the Public Option? who knows
Progressive want to believe in Obama, but his actions tell you he may just be another conserverdem.
The Big Clouds over the white house are that they fought to kill drug importation, they wanted to tax union health care plans, Obama increase the war effort, etc.
Madison Ave. is very good at selling products that people don’t really need. Obama may be a product that no one needs.
I no longer care. Go ahead and put lipstick on the pig if that’s what gets you off.
brilliant piece. this would be a great time to tun up the pressure on members of the caucus. they are shocked and probably getting scared. after the blow, you dont give them too long before putting the question to them again, now are they ready to listen to ?
It’ll hit industries with older workers who have negotiated for better health care plans because the older workers tend to need them.
Sorry, I can’t agree with the “pass it now, fix it later” approach because things never seemed to get fixed later. Please rewind your memory to October 2009. You remember the story, just give the banks everything NOW and we will take measure to protect that money LATER. Seems to have worked out well for Wall Street.
Let’s start with a reality check: Congress does not care about Health Care Reform. VOTERS care and they know this is now a hot button issue during an election year.
All this Administration wants is a damn bill, any bill. All the Congress wants is to close the book on this unpleasant subject and move on. Once the Senate version is passed any further attempts will be put onto the back burner and eventually killed. To think otherwise is to ignore everything that has played out in our fabulously Democratically controlled congress for over a year.
And call me cynical but this notion that passing a bad bill based on President Obama’s “word” to make it better later is just….dumb!
Obama is a highly gifted liar.
I almost stopped there too. but the whole point is the only sane and responsible way to “fix” it is now a political necessity. will they be in a mood to listen now? i guess we find out who is completely bought and paid for, who is just taking a bribe here and there, and who is still trying to do carry out thier constitutional mandate.
No need to worry about that. Democrats will never win re-election.
Folks should not give much credence to the initial reactions of many of the public performers regarding the Massachusetts Senate vote.
Particularly not to the journalists and punditry of the MSM, Democrat Congresscritters, nor the Obama Administration.
The fact is that all of these folks are in a “state of shock”.
Note that this “state of shock” should not be equated with “surprise”.
While that may also be the case for some of the Ignoranti or even bubble-enclosed beltway denizens, it is not the primary state that I’m talking about.
Instead, equate this “state of shock” with the lack of blood flow to the brain.
Yes, not enough oxygen getting to the brain.
Hence a patient that per Wiki is reacting thusly:
The fact of the matter is that this “state of shock” is currently all that exists in the minds (caveat emptor) of the journalists and punditry of the MSM, Democrat Congresscritters, the Obama Administration, and yea, even Repugs (though here, the reaction is primarily an unwarranted giddiness as its main symptom).
Do not expect any of these folks to be making sense right now (and with some of them, never).
It’s probably better if you don’t pay any attention to them right now. Nor allow them to operate motorized vehicles, chainsaws, microwave ovens, garbage disposals, elevator buttons, light switches, knives and forks, etc. Heaven forbid if they have shoes with laces.
No, the best advice is to simply ignore them. You won’t be missing anything.
Three months from now, Spring will be arriving. Re-birth, warmth and sunshine, flowers blooming, birds singing, etcetera.
The world will seem to be a different place. The gloom of Winter departing in the timeless renewal that is Spring.
Take the money out of the Defense budget.
Obama has lost ALL credibility with me. That’s not for today, next week, or next year. Once a person has seriously and wantonly lied to me, only a missionary-type salvationist would hold their breath for a change. I am not that type.
In one year, Obama has earned the distrust it took Bill Clinton a few years to deserve. And as I would never vote for Bill Clinton for anything, anywhere, so to I will never vote for Obama again. Ever. If I lived in Mass., I would have voted for neither Rep or Dem., but I would have voted. That is my specific plan going forward.
“Instead, equate this “state of shock” with the lack of blood flow to the brain. ”
Not possible. Only the reptilian part of their brains is operative.
One thing that isn’t brought up much when discussing the strategy of passing this or any other HCR bill, is this: Any changes won’t kick in for, what, four years? So even if the POS Senate bill does pass and Big O does a victory lap, the public will still say he and Congress wasted a whole YEAR on something that won’t benefit them, if at all, for years. This, from people who are losing their coverage and losing their jobs and getting more pissed off by the day as they see bankers bathing in champagne.
But the medicare at 55 option that Howard Dean likes could kick in this year, no? If this can be done in any way with 51 votes it must be done.
aka: “Trust me, I’ll pull out.”
Yes, right.
no give credit where its due. they are slimy duplicitous liars, skilled at getting what they want through manipulation and they are trying to turn on a dime. even if they are stuttering a bit they know exactly what they want to say. like the coporo-dem i just viewed on the news hour, sputtering and stuttering about how the “bill they have” is the one that will “probably” pass. that brown won because he ran a “brilliant capaign” that will be “studied for years”. that obama is still being “blamed for bush’s mess” and that they havent “focused enough on deficit reduction”.. these arent just rehtorical turds that dropped out of fear. this is the company line. contained in everything that…..individual said is the whole strategy, the whole neoliberal globalist spin.
I agree that House Democrats should be looking at the items you have mentioned and making the attempt to implement them through reconciliation. But I can’t shake the image out of my head where I see Nancy Pelosi representing the House, sitting across a table from Rahm Emanuel, who represents AHIP-PhRMA.
The industry lobbies are still in control of the legislation and everything in it. So even though Congress SHOULD do as you have suggested, the likelihood is that they will do whatever Rahm tells them to, which will be to accept the Senate fiasco without any changes whatsoever.
This administration, and these Congressional wimps do not have the gonads to use reconciliation. They will force-feed us the Lieberman bill, then go off on a deficit-cutting spree to show how fiscally conservative they all are. And the Democrats will lose majorities in both houses of Congress in November.
Honestly, I believe that O & Co. wanted to lose the supermajority in the Senate so that they could more effectively blame R’s for obstructing O’s brilliant policies. Too bad nobody is going to buy it. Nobody.
nice!!
THE ART OF WAR.
Know thy enemies and Know Thyself. Sun Tzu
We progressive need to understand that Washington DC does not like our ideas.
Obama is just a tool that elites used to stop and destroy the progressive movement.
You have to question a lot of Obama actions. He comes to Washington DC riding a TIDAL WAVE of support, and within 8 months the Dems lose Ted Kennedy Seat? Wow
We progressives need to go back to the drawing board, how many real progressives are there in congress. (not one real progressive stood up for the public option, against the war, etc. etc.)
Real Progressives know that this HCR scam Bill is not something voted for in 2008.
What is Obama up to?
Cutting deals with Wall Street
Cutting deals with Insurance Companies
Cutting deals with Big Pharma
Is this what a real progressive president does? No
Is Obama a friend of progressives? who knows
There is simply no indication DC Dems are about to negotiate, much less legislate in good faith.
Kill this bill.
No, clearly.
maybe recently they were hoping for that. i have been saying what L odonnel wrote over at Huff Post earlier, that in no way no how, do republicasn want HCR to fail. they want it as much as wal st does, in fact you could say that wa-st and the republican party are the same entity. no, what they want is to appear to be against it, then run on the widespread haterd of it, then gut and redistribute (to thier pals) the affordability
moneys. oh they are all sick bastards. the only way forward is to keep speaking the truth of the situation to whoever will listen, and fight.like we’re doing. its going to take more than blogging eventually.
Agree with everything you write, as usual. I’d add that the timing of a second reconciliation bill that added the public option would be very beneficial, politically. The public’s opinion of the general bill is pretty much set in stone. But if Congress admits its shortcomings and passes a second bill adding in the public option, the people will think they’re being listened to and getting results. That would save the Dems.
It would certainly be interesting to hear what lies spew forth from Democorps if they use Reconciliation and then NOT pass a wildly popular public option. We couldn’t get that 51st vote in the Senate ?
I think that’s why we should start an organized whip count now…or as soon as the Senate agrees to sidecar reconciliation.
Maybe I’m in the minority here Jon, but my opinion is toss this worthless thing in the trash and start over. The few tidbits that are actually going to help people that are in this bill, are not worth the negatives that far outweigh them. This is the Insurance Company Bailout which followed the Banks Bailout, which followed the Corporate Whores Bailout, which followed the State Bailout (disguised as Stimulus), which followed the Wall Street Bailout. Enough of the bailouts of inept craptacular corporations!! Toss the damn people a bone for once instead of crapping on them and telling them it’s actually chocolate. If Obama and the Dem majority do not do something morally and responsibly for their actual electorate soon, they will see a wall of voter fury in 2010 and 2012 that will decimate this party. People are hurting. Badly.
Yes, a Medicare plus 5% public option is worth talking about. The other one is just bullshit.
Sorry to be OT but I just heard on NPR that President Pander said today he’s willing to work with the Republicans after yesterday’s debacle. Talk about clueless!
He will now work toward a bipartisan consensus midway between obstructing his entire agenda and not.
Bingo. Welcome to Clinton Triangulation The Sequel.
So, the way to punish them for being intentionally bad is to force them to keep the majorities (so they have to deal with the mandate, but no will)? /s
ditto
Obama has said today that Congress should wait until Brown gets seated to do anything further on the health care bill. Several senators have expressed the same thing. Apparently to these high minded politicians it would not be “fair” to proceed without him, even for the house to pass the senate bill.
So it seems doubtful that the house will pass the present senate bill even if agreements are made to change the bill through reconciliation.
I think whatever gets passed through the reconciliation process is all we can hope for.
Has it occurred to anyone how utterly shameless this Barack Obama person must be? Here is a politician who collected millions from Progressives, from eight-graders collecting pennies in jars to bring about real, meaningful-to-working-class-Americans, CHANGE.
And before this duplicitous person takes office, he packs his administration with Agents-Against-Change, with many of the key players who brought about this near depression on innocent American families. This duplicitous person conspired with the drug makers to protect their profits from being reduced by lower price medicines to some diseased or sickly eighth-grader in America who may have sent her pennies to elect this vile, vile fraud.
I am not a historian, but surely this Barack Obama creature must rank near the top of the most egregious liars this nation has ever had the misfortune of encountering. How does this traitor to children and betrayer to those with budding hope in their hearts sleep at night?
To be saddled with a mad-man for eight years was one thing. But to embrace a liar, a con-man, a slick hustler who promised so much is beyond verbal description. It is a devastation which can only be felt. And remembered through verbal history to our children, and their children.
President Pander has spoken. Let him serve one term then he can move directly to Goldman Sachs. He’ll be abundantly rewarded.
If Mass. voters really want to send an anti-Wall Street message, they should send Barney Frank back to civilian life, where he will be handsomely rewarded by the banks and financiers.
But better the bankers pay Barney’s salary than the American taxpayer.
But, but, but, he looks so charming, and his wife does so many things that normal first ladies never did, and his kids are soooooooo cute…and that puppy!! Why he’s adorable…….
BTW, I agree with you 100%. The more I think about this man and see his actions, the more angry I get. Bush was alot of things that one can’t post on blogs. But this shyster is despicable.
i agree with all the kill-this-bill talk up to a point.
if they passed the COBRA extension, that is section 113 in the House bill, and allowed me to stay on COBRA until the exchanges started, my life would be a whole lot better and more secure.
As it is, I face losing all insurance until I am 65.
There are dozens of provisions in the bill that help folks, the same way this helps me.
something is better than nothing.
You, and I are not alone. This reality will dawn on millions more Americans. I contributed and worked in a field office for a month before the election. I spent the first six months defending and rationalizing Obama’s actions and in actions in relation to what he promised America. Then, one day, it dawned on me, I was talking like a cultist. When I thought rationally, and just examined action after inaction, it was all over for Obama, with me.
So the Great Obama Fraud has been discovered.
The enormity of his fraud will likely collapse the entire Democratic Party.
Now that’s change I can believe in.
They ignore my contempt for them at their own political peril.
The bill is dead.
: )
Obama’s Mission Accomplished Moment.
11 dimensional chess whittled health care reforms’s approval from about 70% approval to around 40% and we are proposing that this gang can fix something later? I have a bridge you might be interested in.
Just scrolled past a news item on Michelle that she was launching a campaign against obesity. Um.
Many Pups, even during the campaign, clarified the point Obama was NOT a progressive, he’s a centrist, his history is centrist, and he’s behaving like a centrist, owned by the corps.
Problem is, he’s failing and so is the Party . . . . they MIGHT want to change a bit, can’t tell yet.
But folks in here stopping mislabeling Obama a progressive long, long ago.
Yer Behind.
We just need 50. I assume Joe would break the tie in favor of Democrats.
bobash @ 6: But it doesn’t. The House can insist that the Senate first pass the negotiated improvements, and then and only then vote on the improvements and the Senate bill at the same time, or even vote on the Senate bill only after the House has passed the improvements.
These guys can fuck up a two-car parade. They’re old. They got back pains, and you should see the hemorrhoids, and they gotta pay the kids way through school, and they got this nice piece of lobbyist ass they’ve been banging on the side and they won’t be getting anything if they’re on the hill all the time like this anymore, plus TV dates with President McCain and God knows what else.
So forget the plates on straws balancing act.
commonsensor @ 15: Sorry, I can’t agree with the “pass it now, fix it later” approach because things never seemed to get fixed later. Please rewind your memory to October 2009. You remember the story, just give the banks everything NOW and we will take measure to protect that money LATER. Seems to have worked out well for Wall Street.
Sure. Work the math: This thing is supposed to mainly go into effect in 2014. The D party looks to tank in 2010, meaning President Teabagger will repeal the HCR in 2013 or make it worse. Whichever. If they don’t pass it, however, the D party (on the Hill!) will not be passing anything else this year, including an HCR bill. If they do pass it, the D party may pass something this year. So: you’re stuck with a useless party, which in turn means if you don’t want to be stuck with President Teabagger in 2012, you’ve got to go the third-party route.
(Everyone says this is impossible: it isn’t, just very damn difficult. But it has occurred in times of great upheaval. Killing them all in Primaries amounts to a third party move (a hostile takeover of the D label) anyways.)
Right now, the D leadership is all set to go home to Mama and get Republican religion. That’s the D leadership takeaway from the Coakley election: liberals suck (For any value of liberal not equal to ‘neo-conservative’.). Which was their takeaway before the election, oddly enough. So the leadership has been everyone no as favor to Joe Lieberman (in essence) for some time now. Well, they just cracked, have reverted to their primeval spineless jellyfish state and they’re going to go over the hill. On you.
Given that we’re screwed either way, and given the offer of actually doing reconciliation, then you pass the bill. The counter-argument is that they lie (which I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised at), but it don’t. Don’t pass the bill, get nothing from now til 2013, at the earliest and with the best of luck, or pass the thing and endure even bigger cratering in favor of the Republicans until that party actually takes over Congress.
Therefore, if Pelosi and Reid are willing to do a fixit bill through reconciliation, take yes for an answer. You’re not any worse off than you were before, they finally decided they have appease someone, so it might as well be you. ‘We want the public option and this thing with the excise fixed and that thing over there, and some cookies.’
Of course, if it’s a hollow offer (which it might well be), it’s revolt city. You put them on notice beforehand: ‘Give us your word in front of God and everybody, and we’ll do it.’ Should they try and bail out on reconciliation, I suspect most of the party (the people in the party, the common grunts of all stripes) will go right with you.
As for Obama, apparently he’s a graduate of the Joe Lieberman School of Fine Leadership… but that also means he’ll bow to Congress, should Congress use reconciliation. And he hasn’t got that 60th vote to hold over everyone’s head anymore. ‘I have to make Joe happy or we can’t pass anything! Isn’t that right Joe?’
So what you got to lose? I wasn’t expecting quite this reaction (and had no idea if Coakley would lose or not) but again, if they want to surrender to someone, might as well be actual Democrats.
But trying to pass five brand new multiple bills at this point amounts to five reconciliations, against one reconciliation. Trying to modify this bill means starting all over with reconciliation. Once the structure is laid down with this bill, a reconciliation bill is much smaller.
Yeah, I don’t trust them either, but I don’t see any gains here letting it die now, since they decided to try and make a deal on the deal.
Apparently the problem all along has been this, as articulated by Barney Frank: ‘But our respect for democratic procedures must rule out any effort to pass a health care bill as if the Massachusetts election had not happened.”
Well, that explains the Schiavo fiasco, doesn’t it? And this one, too. The Republicans get to decide what democracy is. And if the D’s are that fastidious, then they can be pushed by actual Democrats as well.
max
['Beat me, kick me, make me pass bad legislation.']
I’m just fucking tickled by the way Obama and Emmanuel were just (just!) about to roll the progressives in the house for this monstrosity, so close the insurance companies could taste the money. Then – Wham! A bolt from the blue named “Teddy’s Seat” blew the whole thing to smithereens in their faces. Fucking priceless.
: )
First of all, we don’t know what’s going on behind closed doors the past week or so.
The WH, House and Senate are at a feverish pitch we’re told, but there’s NO transparency (funny that) to tell exacxtly what’s going on. So we wait.
Second of all, it’s the House’s Move. They have to take an action of some sort, the ball and bill are in their court.
Good news? Progs might be holding and refusing to sign the Senate bill ver batim.
Bad news? No transparency, we don’t know how they are getting twisted by WH, we don’t know what’s being offered to them, what they are being threatened by, so we have NO idea what the House outcome is, at this time.
And if anyone tells me they are SURE this HCR is dead, or that it’s now INEVITABLE that it will get better due to Coakley’s loss, and reconciliation WILL be used, I’d sell them some swamp land in AZ I have, along with a cheap bridge from Brooklyn.
We are at a sit and wait period for all this prog, electoral, and general masses PRESSURE to work it’s mojo on the sitch at hand. NOW is the time to demand House Progs stand firm, and don’t cave, and HOPE we CAN force the scenerio Jon Walker has pointed out.
I’m not sure yet . . . I don’t think Obama and the Dem’s CARE about reelection, only they do the bidding of the Corps thru ’12, and once voted out of office either in ’10 or ’12, all good corp dem’s become lobbyists or Board Of Directors Chairs for large corps.
We sit, and WAIT. For the House to act. Anything else is kubuki and wasted font space.
IMHO.
Can someone please tell Obama that the Kennedy seat was just a “sliver” of the Democratic majority? Also, point out to him that he “never ran on” needing 60 votes to get universal health care?
There are at least two ways to look at this.
#1 – Obama meant to piss on Ted Kennedy’s Liberal HCR grave and so dragging the whole process out under Republican skirts worked.
#2 – Ted Kennedy came back from his grave and pissed on Obama’s plan to payoff Obama’s Big Pharma benefactors. Of course it’s too late to stop Obama’s Big Paybacks to Wall Street.
As soon as the House decides what it will do, the writing will be on the wall for all to see.
I predict, if it’s NOT leaning to prog changes, and if recon don’t come BEFORE they sign the Senate bill, we the people will erupt. Because those would be signs of a major sellout, despite Coakley and the kabuki the past 48 hours.
What EVER the House does, tips the final hand in The Senate, IMO. We’ll know what the Senate’s gonna do, by what the House comes up with . . . . we’ll know what Obama wants, and how hard he’s gonna fight for it, too. be it prog change to the HCR effort or keeping the corp sellout as it is in the Senate Bill.
When, WHEN, will the House resolve its position? Any Pups got thoughts on that?
You went thru 8 years of Shrub, watched as Clinton began to gut jobs, fought all summer and longer for change, GOT the man in office.
And now, before the House has returned its most CRUCIAL PIECE OF WORK IN ITS HISTORY, AFAIC, before we really KNOW what the final result might be, yer bailing on Obama . . . with ONE, only one, step to go in this process to see what we’re gonna get, and you wanna pull the ventilator on HIM and it?
I’m as pissed as anyone about Obama from FISA forward. Don’t mistake me for a bot.
But it ain’t over, till it’s over, and it ain’t over till the House says so, in this case.
Patience, there’s time to be even MORE pissed after we see this last step!
We don’t KNOW what will kick in when, the House is not finished!!!!
Geez . . . does ANYONE get that it’s a new game and there’s a TON of fucking pressure on the WH and Congress? Pressure created by progs, being applied daily and definitely some pressure from Coakley’s loss?
And our job is to rachet up that pressure as much as we can. Email and call your reps, Pelosi.
A LOT! There are 800 numbers out there, so you don’t have to spend money! Wish I had them, I’d post them, some Pup has them . . . forget who it was, google is your friend.
But DON’T know what the end will be, or when anything begins.
Eyeball, keep yer eye on the ball, son, I say son, oh . . . forget it, that boy just ain’t right in the head. /Foghorn Leghorn
And compared to the pressure on them all at this point?
IT’S KABUKI!
Pay it no mind, as I and another in here are saying.
Wait. For The House response.
Smoke a doob, sip some expensive Cabernet, or Whiskey, or Scotch.
Enjoy the weather!
Wait. It’s almost over . . .
We don’t know . . . you can worry and defeatist yourself till yer blue in the face.
But, we don’t know.
We WILL know, soon, when Nancy and The House turn over their final card in this deal.
Yes, it’s also all part of the Kabuki, from the pressure they feel . . . they’re feelin it, I have to believe they are feelilng it, even if Obama don’t CARE about reelection.
We’ll know soon, though . . . . *G*
NOT until we see what the House does . . . because IT will set the tone and stage for what the Senate will have to fall into per the arm twisting by WH and Obama/Rama . . . . if the House enacts shit and signs off on the Senate bill, we’re fucked.
But we ain’t fucked yet, hoss . . *G*
There are no friends in politics, only convenient allies for mutual gains.
Yep, IF the Senate is forced to go along with it, and don’t SCUTTLE it.
One step at a time, and it’s the House shoes steppin now, and us waitin.
We SHOULD be on the phones and emails to Pelosi and The House Progs!!! That’s the matter at hand, and they are being either HOUNDED, courted or threatened by WH and Rahm/Obama . . . they need OUR pressure to keep them in line and not cave . . . . emails, phones, Pelosi and YOUR rep(s).
Old news, kabuki, predictable, don’t be distracted from the issue at hand!
The House! Make some calls, send some emails!
Here is what one who believes as you say you do must believe.
That Big Pharma got every last bit of competition and threats to their profits vaporized from the wording of the Senate bill, but foolishly left in airtight restrictions they couldn’t wiggle out of IN THE BILL. (This believe approaches Tooth Fairyhood). With no cost controls, and the ability to jack up rates by 300% if you want to stay “covered”, this bill is something that will increase Big Pharmas control and percentage of US GNP. The only good thing about passage is that before it “kicks in”, the Democratic Party will be obliterated from American politics.
Look at it this way.
The WH and Dem’s make a kabuki show to extend a hand to the Pubs, once again.
House finalizes something, Senate then might, MIGHT, try to work the Pubs, announce to the nation the Pubs, including Brown, won’t work them and they have a perfectly good plan for all America, and pass a modicum of REAL reform with a PO, a vibrant one.
And the spend the rest of the year beating the Pubs on the head with it, over, and over, and over.
Till we see what the House comes up with, though, it’s all opiated pipe dreaming. All of it.
Just wait a bit, and lean on Pelosi and the House Progs and House Dem’s!
Yer slippin yer perch there, hoss . . . . gettin a bit Rovian/Rightwing in the rhetoric.
Wait till the House unveils, soon . . . then we see with clarity.
To vilify at that lever yer on? Makes me wonder your intent . . . .
I might even believe that, I’ve said as much here and to friends.
But I’m in TOTAL wait for the House final mode now . . . we don’t KNOW what pressure is on WH/Obama/Rahm, we only know it’s a TON of it!!! *G*
Let the pressure do its work!
It seems apparent that the administration is starting to push the house into passing the Senate bill as is. I am not as sanguine as you that the house needs more than empty promises and pretty words from Obama before they pass the Senate bill without modifications- there certainly is a chance that they pass it and get nothing in return. Remember, these are Democrats we are talking about. We will see.
Somehow I don’t think ‘Lil Rahm’s screaming fits and threats have the same effect they did 48 hours ago.
Much as I wanna like Barney, his ways of oration, outspoken and all that . . . his sellout to the corps is a sad, sad state of affairs.
Another one to primary at some point . . . there’s a LOT to primary out there come ’10 (now) and ’12 (now).
We agree on this fully.
Dude, there have been impassioned, detailed, well document and well thought out threads galore on Obama being a cop out since after he was sworn in here At The Lake.
You sound like you are inventing the meme, you are not . . . .
Howard Fineman was just on Rachel Maddow and had a great idea. Step back, strip the bill down to it’s core parts like no pre-existing condition, can’t be dropped if you get sick, anti-trust and then force the Republicans to vote NO and force them to read the phone book to filibuster. Dare them to vote against these core things that everyone wants. Ed Rendell was also on and added in addition to Fineman’s comments that if they do that, that the Insurance companies will probably go to their respective reps and convince them to vote for the other stuff because they would need it to help offset the cost of the things we just passed. I think this is a great idea. The biggest things could be handled with this one bill or three small bills. Once that is done, then they can pass a PO in reconciliation because it would be related to the budget. We just need to convince Obama to grow a pair and force the votes so the Senators’ true colors can be seen out in the open.
Are you REPLYING to posts or ranting? I can’t tell.
My comments were regarding the Jon Walker post.
Your point was…..??? Too much caffeine maybe?
You don’t know WHAT this bill, is gonna be.
Yer exfoliating from thin air, a construct that’s meaningless.
Till The House Acts, we have NO idea what is gonna happen.
There could be a Dorgan, there could regulatory means to keep pricing down, who knows?
You don’t, I don’t.
NEXT!
“I would advise that we try to move quickly to coalesce around those elements of the package that people agree on,” Mr. Obama said.
What a douchebag. Given the way this whore’s bath has been conducted there aren’t a lot of meaningful popular elements you can do Chinese menu style and not have it cost a trillion bucks.
Of course, he’s also advising that nothing should be finalized without first seating the new junior senator from Mass, who will of course join with his brethren and oppose everything. So, in other words, let’s drop the whole thing.
How is it apparent, in that it’s not covered, NO one is talking about it in public, only pandering to kabuki by Gibbs, Pelosi, Reid and all the players involved . . .
There’s NOTHING apparent about the process in play, except for what you project without substantiation.
Please make it clear it’s your OPINION you are expressing, not fact . . . that’s honest blogging.
Ya think?!?!!?!?!!?
*G*
Soiled undergarments come to mind, I hope . . . *G*
Imagine if you will, (my fantasy) that Pelosi might be staring him down daily and mouthing softly, FUCK YOU RAHM!
But we don’t know . . . we can fantasize, but we don’t know.
Love your comment. *G*
Sorry Pal, or Palette, There will be No Sugar Plum Fairy ending this production.
Are you still also waiting to see a wholesale change of Obama’s Financial and Economic Team ??
Let’s face it. In every instance we can discuss about Obama’s choices so far, Obama has shown himself to be a political coward.
You are apparently hoping for some miracle to happen TO Obama. It obviously won’t happen FROM him.
Lifelong Dem, Union member – semi-activist – those are my creds.
How long have you worked for the admin ?
That’s a very possible outcome and one I’d support whole heartedly . .
We’ll see soon, thanks for the Fineman update!
I continue to reply and repeat the same thing over and over because some folks in here don’t seem to get it.
And they repeat false memes and such over, and over, and over again.
And they are new names in here . . . . suddenly. Again. A pattern that’s repeated itself a few times or more the past two months as this game comes to its end.
Thanks for your comment!
Now patiently wait for the House move to be done before ya try and tell us what’s gonna happen . . . THEN, you can crow later and say you were right, or, slink away . . . .
Dunc, it’s just public kabuki!
Wait and see!
You been around this block long enough, you know what the score is!
Now is NOT the time to listen any pols words on MSM . . .
I will agree that often, past behavior is a valid predictor for future intent.
No doubt!
I’m FULLY aware of what I consider to be HUGE disappointments since Obama took office, along the way.
But until we see what The House does, it’s all kabuki.
You misread my oft repeated message, intent and then twist it sideways.
Who do YOU work for?
One of us in playing with a misinformation deck. If the House changes ANYTHING in the Senate bill, it must be re-approved by the Senate. So that won’t happen.
So the House has the choice of take it or leave it.
If the Dems don’t leave it, THEY will leave the House, in very short order. Mass. told them that yesterday.
There is no MAGIC OUTCOME you seem so enthralled with.
Well, if Pelosi were to be caught on camera giving Rahm a piece of her mind I would certainly listen to that. Hell I’d make popcorn and watch it on Youtube 100 times. But of course you’re right we’ll have to wait and see…
I gotta go get another double shot of Italian espresso . . . time to wander up The Lake, see what the regulars are thinking and saying . . . this was fun boys and girls . . . let’s do it again, just AFTER we see what The House finalizes!!!
I agree.. This is just about the only viable option I support now. The Senate bill is junk and too much of a give-away. This is the Administration’s chance to show “us” who they are really for and that they do have spines.
Let’s hope.
I thought the CBO said that 150%FPL medicaid saved $100Billion over 133%.
MGloraine@ 25: Spot on.
Also, Obama and the democrats don’t have the time to fiddle-fuck around. No time to pass-now/fix-later. I’m not interested in seeing contrition-to-the-right from them. It’s obscene. If they want to apologize, let them grovel a bit to us, their most loyal supporters, the ones who helped them derail Hillary’s Triangulation Express and take the White House and both branches of congress.
Jane nailed it when she said: “If I’d wanted Joe Lieberman writing the healthcare reform bill, I’d have voted for John McCain.”
Bingo! Give that lady a teddy bear the size of King Kong!
Coakley WAS a lousy campaigner, and her list of contributors from Big Pharma and the health insurance industry is as long as your forearm, but this was directed at the democrats who, with those supermajorities, STILL manage to look like a bunch of political wusses…and that is the kiss of death in american politics.
If O. and the dems read this as “Whillikers! We need to move to the right.” then we will get obliterated in ten months.
Mr. preznint, you were hired to mount the salvage operation from 8 years of republican fuckery, not to do rehab on the same bastards who’ve practically ruined us. If you won’t get after it, and get after it in the next 10 months, then it’s not going to get done. And if it’s not going to get done, then I’d rather have the GOP in power when the real collapse comes.
As one poster said: “Don’t back up, goddammit…man up.”