In the wake of Martha Coakley’s defeat, both Representative Barney Frank and Senator Jim Webb have said that jamming a health care bill through before Scott Brown can be seated is not the right thing to do.
They’re right. Health care legislation would be viewed — with some justification — as illegitimate.
But many on the Hill tonight are saying that the Massachusetts defeat also means that health care reform is dead, fearful that what happened to Martha Coakley will happen to them, too, in 2010.
That’s about as feasible as Wile E. Coyote trying to turn around and run back across the bridge that is crumbling behind him. There’s only one way to go.
I guess Democrats really didn’t realize that they would be held accountable if they got the reigns of complete power and were not transparent. Crap like buying off Ben Nelson’s vote by bribing him with our money is insulting. The internet is just a tool of transparency, and no one, least of all the online progressives, has been fooled by the last year. The Republicans have come into our hometown and kicked our butt tonight. The Democrats have less than 10 months to start governing as a people-powered party, or they will lose both the House and the Senate.
The damage is done. Unless the Democrats move aggressively to right the perception that they are the party of backroom deals and massive corporate bailouts, 2010 will be more of the same.
But there will certainly be no shortage of those ready to extract the wrong lessons from the Coakley loss. Joe Lieberman, Mr. 31%, says it’s a sign that people “don’t like all the partisanship and deal-making here in Washington” and that “they’re really skeptical about this health care bill.” He doesn’t mention that it’s his health care bill they don’t like, or the fact that the bill was made unpopular as the price of his vote.
A new FDL/SurveyUSA poll of NY-01 shows how Lieberman’s bill is affecting the race in that district, one of many that the Democrats are at risk of losing in the next election. Incumbent Tim Bishop would have a narrow lead over GOP challenger Randy Altschuler if the race were held today in a contest that was rated “lean Democratic” by Cook’s Political Report.
People were pretty evenly split when asked if they supported a bill with a mandate to buy private insurance, with 50% saying it’s a good idea and 44% saying it’s a bad idea. Support fell dramatically when they were told that they would be fined up to 2% of their income for failure to comply, with 40% saying it’s a good idea and 57% saying it’s a bad idea. But when the option to buy into a government-run Medicare program was added, 63% of likely voters (66% of independents) supported it and 33% opposed even with the fine. Even support among Republicans shot up 23%.
Polling done for HCAN last September found similar results nationally, indicating that likely 2010 voters “oppose a mandate to purchase private insurance by 64% to 34% but support a mandate with a choice of private or public insurance by 60% to 37%.”
Joe Lieberman was personally responsible for killing the public option/Medicare expansion in the Senate bill.
The good news? Nobody needs Lieberman’s vote to pass either one any more. The non-budgetary “fixes” like banning the exclusion of those with pre-existing conditions have already passed the Senate. A public option — or an expansion of Medicare — can be added through reconciliation, which takes 51 votes. The Republicans certainly had no fear of using reconciliation when George Bush was in office. And the Democrats are going to need to do so in order to make good on their promise to fix the excise tax to benefit of the middle class, which will cost roughly $60 billion. But their options for doing that are limited by the process itself: they can pay for it by the savings from a government program like a public option or an expansion of Medicare. Or, they can piss everyone off and raise taxes.
That looks to be where Jerrold Nadler and Anthony Weiner are headed tonight. They indicate that “the only way they could sign on to the Senate bill is if it was accompanied immediately, or even preceded by, a separate bill, making a number of major preemptive changes to what they regard as an inferior package,” per Brian Beutler.
It’s called sidecar reconciliation. And the 65 members of the House who have pledged to vote against any bill that does not have a public option should be looking into it seriously tonight.
Ezra Klein says that “a Democratic Party that would abandon their central initiative this quickly isn’t a Democratic Party that deserves to hold power.” I would add that if they don’t stick to the principles they profess to hold and stand up to the lobbyists they’ve kowtowed to from the start, “holding power” won’t be anything they have to worry about.




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For starters, Obama should decree that Dorgan’s Amendment will be attached to the next Bill he signs.
Preliminary breakdown shows over 20% of Dems went for Brown, and the big independent segment went big for him. I doubt very much that liberal dems switched, but rather bluedogs.
The big question in my mind is whether the WH ‘brain trust’ will see the clear signal in their data, or whether they are dead-set on ignoring it. Everything so far indicates that they are determined not to go the way that you recommend they go. You can set up an intervention like this one, but some drunks are so set in their ways that they can’t see their way out.
I was glad to see Weiner come right out of the gate and call for expanding Medicare (as part of a Jobs bill).
The real key here is that this change needs to come first and should probably simply be Medicare for All. Regardless of what the remediation is, they need to pass first. After all would you trust anyone of the crew that led us to this train wreck to put them in after they got something they thought they could sell as victory?
thank you for this statement, jane.
fwiw, as a MA voter, i can say that my lack of enthusiasm for yesterday’s election was certainly due to the behind the scenes corporate deal making and bailouts (for the banking and insurance industries as well as big pharma and others) at the expense of real reform for ordinary americans.
the obama administration, with help from congress, has made the biggest transfer of wealth up (from ordinary people to the wealthy and powerful) in the history of the planet. this is not the change we hoped for.
what happened to the fierce urgency of now? or is that only for banksters and insurance execs?
what the country needs now are real solutions to our very real problems. it is beyond frustrating that there are obvious solutions to benefit the vast majority of americans and my own party refuses to even consider them — apparently because they might anger some corporate donors.
healthcare reform is a perfect example of this.
for years we, as a country, have been paying for comprehensive universal healthcare and not getting it. a single payer system, such as in h.r. 676 or s.703, is the obvious solution and it should be a no brainer to everyone not intent on protecting the insurance industry over the well being and security of americans.
Fixes FIRST, please. I’ve heard enough false hope about “fixing it later” or “fixing it in conference.”
Incidentally, all due respect for whoever came up with “sidecar reconciliation,” which is clever in a wonky way, but it’s hard to rally round a phrase so, well, wonky. When FDL is ready to add another staff member, can it be someone with marketing and communications expertise who knows how to create simple, easy-to-understand-for-the-general-public, brands and slogans? “Public option” suffers a similar problem. (Not that FDL created that phrase)
re expanding medicare.
i just want to point out that expanding medicare is VERY different from an optional medicare buy-in.
expanding medicare means expanding from the current coverage of 65 and up by age group (for example 0-18, or lowering the starting age to 55) and covering everyone (or close to it) in that age group. that is good policy and a reasonable compromise position especially if combined with some medicare fixes (donut hole, negotiating drug prices, lowering co-pays, etc).
an optional medicare buy-in is bad policy so long as we do not have the regulatory environment to support it (and it’s painfully obvious we don’t).
Putting all your eggs in one basket is not a smart strategy….
The Obama Adminiration is a joke!!!
People like Ezra Klein should not be taken seriously. The Ezra Klein’s of this world and around the Democratic Party—oh well, you see the results.
I am no longer bothered by the ObamaBots and the apologists for the GOP-Lite Democratic Party. I merely entertained by them.
I am now getting myself mentally prepared for the next economic collapse, the ultimate fall of the dollar and the complete breakdown of the state and the scrapping of social programs in favor of the military-surveillance state.
It’s time to stop putting so much energy into these political losers who solve nothing and send Americans into a panic.
The Dems have literally turned their back on the following constituencies:
1. Civil Rights activists
2. True Feminists
3. The Elderly
4. Unions
5. Teachers
6. Blue Collar workers
7. Civil Liberterians
8. Antiwar activists
9. People who work with the disabled and the elderly
Add any other group which I did not mention….
Ezra Klein sees the world through an obvious elitist prism.
That’s a post
Selise, it is your response (and similar from other MA democrats/progressives I’ve seen) that needs wide reportage. Instead, we get crap about “not being bipartisan enough” or “overreaching by Democrats”. Hell, they didn’t overreach. They didn’t expend any energy to reach ANYWHERE. They simply asked this or that corporation to write legislation for them to vote on. The only “heavy lifting” the Dems have done is working up Orwellian names for the corporate-written legislation to make is sound as if it was for the little guy instead of a gift to the fat cat.
I despise the Democrats.
Save the economy?
A friend had this to add. The money we used to bail out the loser bankers could have been used to give a Million dollars to those over 55 to retire.
1 Solve the unemployment problem.
2 Those rich 55 and older retirees would start spending either on goods or creating new business’
But what do I know, other than the trillions to the richest 2% didn’t do squat.
Too bad Frank has not applied that same standard to the banking industry. What a fuck. And Webb sure can not figure that one out. Is his seat coming up in 2010?
As Dr. Howard Dean has said numerous times. If the Republicans had been (when hell freezes over) trying to get the public option or expansion of medicare through when they had the reins it would have been a done deal.
Roll the American peoples bus over the obstructionist now.
Sidecar reconciliation. Revisit the public option and expansion of medicare now
I think it was liberals who voted against Coakley, I heard someone on a radio program, from MA, saying they did not like the mandate in MA and they were voting for Brown. I think this was a huge referendum on that. I would like to see a survey out of MA asking people why they voted the way they did, especially since there was no exit polling.
Yes, yes, yes.
That this admin couldn’t see last FEBRUARY that bipartisanship with these nitwits (and in that I’m including the Bluedogs, which behave and should be treated as if they are OUTSIDE the Democratic caucus) is beyond naive.
By not announcing that they had a mandate and intended to use it (hell, even GWB, upon ekeing out his 2004 win had enough Brain to say that, regardless [as usual] whether it was true!); by not changing the rules at the start of the session – Democrats proved yet again, as cocktailhag so eloquently puts it in the comments here, that they are pussies.
Every time the political pendulum swings, it results in an equally divided country. Could it be any more obvious that “divide & conquer” is the goal of the power elite, and that they employ the strategies and tactics through their (s)elected officials and controlled media to guarantee this outcome in perpetuity? Are you still really willing to attribute these outcomes to incompetence and coincidence? You are being gamed. There is no “two party system.”
Oblahblah is now very vulnerable in 2012. And he will be a one-term president.
Start looking NOW for a progressive candidate to run in the 2012 primaries against him. Someone like Howard Dean.
I don’t want a president that wants to kiss face with the conservatives (Republicans or Democrats). Give me someone that will give them Hell and go for their throats and that keeps their campaign promises.
We don’t another 4 years of this.
Same goes for Pelosi, and Reid too.
good!
As bewildering as it is to see EK’s seat taken by a Republican, I am almost relieved that Frankenstein they were trying fit into that size 3 HCR dress is going back to the lab were it belongs.
The dread I feel is that the Democrats to not have the balls to use that same tactics the Republicans used to pass all of their nonsense legislation, so no true progressive measures will be passed and nothing will be done to address the many serious problems that threaten the very existence of the US as a nation, or at least a nation of any import.
*sigh*
That would require core Democrats to have integrity, courage, and ethics. They have none of any of those things. They would push through a public option (medicare buy-in or similar) via reconciliation to make it a done deal and accepted the negative consequences if there are any short-term (a new GOP majority wouldn’t be able to undo it once it is set) for the sake of the country and its REAL people (non-billionaires). More likely, they would hold onto seats and control for having found some testicles in a dusty box somewhere.
They also need to bite…HARD…the bankers hands. If Blankfein (of Goldman-Sachs) and other fat asses aren’t howling bloody murder then the Dems aren’t doing it right.
It does not appear as though the spokesmen for Obama have understood what the people are saying, but as has been pointed out endlessly, men do not understand what they are paid to not understand, or however it is more artfully worded.
IF we can get some meaningful reform, and by this I mean At Least no mandate w/o public option, and by the way we need some of this sooner than later (2014), I think maybe the public will benefit from the change.
Otherwise, notsomuch.
Wow. That’s smart!
Word.
I would go for Dean again in a heartbeat…or anyone similar. What I will NOT be doing is voting for Obama. There is virtually nothing Obama can do now to change that as far as I’m concerned.
Last night on a conference call with Eric Massa, he said with the Coakley loss, his prediction was “no bill” and he went to congress to represent the people and the other democrats need to do the same.
The Medicare expansion is good policy, but nothing more. It’s not a good compromise IMO, because compromise was not necessary on this. But your assessment only shows how the Dems have incrementally changed what most of us are willing to accept.
Expanding Medicare would only be good for those 55 or older. For those who are not, the health insurance options in this country will continue to suck.
TheMalcontent.com
yes DEAN SCREAM…..he is a scrapper and i LOVE HIM
Fixed it for Jane.
Unless the Democrats move aggressively to right the perception that they are the party of
backroom deals and massive corporate bailoutscovering up for war criminals, 2010 will be more of the same.I don’t think the Dems. have even considered how damaging that vote was to them everywhere. They let NJ Senators Lautenberg and Mendendez both lobbyists for J&J and the rest of Big Pharma rule the roost on this issue when every poll in the country said Drug Re importation was very popular and even Obama has campaigned for it. The dirty Rahm back room deal with BIG Pharma came back to haunt them last night BIG time.
The republicans are spinning this that we dont want health care reform. This is GARBAGE. What we dont want is this gift to corporations that rip us off, this crap bill that is being called health care reform. WE WANT REAL REFORM. That is why Brown won. GIVE US REFORM. Take the profit out of health care. Every dollar profit is a dollar not spent on health care. SOMEONE IS DYING.
NON PROFIT SINGLE PAYER UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE. Whoever delivers this for the American people will be the greatest American who ever lived. Saving more lives and alleviating more human suffering for Americans than any other American in history. Not to mention freeing up money better spent investing in American jobs and industry.
I think they “get it” but i think their corporate puppet masters strings are just too strong. It should be illegal for any corporation to lobby (bribe) congress. It should be a condition of public employment for any individual seeking public office to take an oath that they have never pledged an oath to any other entity besides upholding the us constitution and to the American people. No more secret agendas .. no more skull and bones. NO MORE DUPLICITY and BETRAYAL.
MEMO
TO: Lanny Davis, Rahm Emanuel, David Axelrod, James Carville, Paul Begala, and all other Neoliberals, Clintonites and Obama Kool-Aid Drinkers
What is the Democratic Party’s electoral record since Howard Dean left as DNC Chair?
How were the Dems doing prior to having Howard Dean as the DNC Chair?
The results are obvious…..
Never going to happen. They’re Corporatist whores and they’ll never bite the hands that feed them.
Good Morning Jane and Firedogs,
Jane Hamsher – have you seen Peter Daou is out with his post mortem ?
call me catty, but two little tidbits jumped out at me – golly gee, wonder who he’s talking about ??
hmmmmmm
I totally agree with you Wizardleft.
Last nite was the beginning of the end for conserverdems.
Dems now know this is not the Clinton Years
Joe and Bayh and other conserverdems will get no where in the real world talking about how their HCR bill was to progressive.
Joe knows his political career is over.
Perfect, Jane! You are nailing the analysis in a most readable form, providing a calming voice, AND showing that the only route out is with the angels. Now the legislators have to choose.
Clearly enough of the democrats are spooked to have their minds focussed just a bit more acutely. They do not care about us but they do want to stay in power. What a dilemma. They have the corporatists money but they can not get the votes at the polls (or perhaps in congress). Nice majority you have there, would be a shame if something happend to it. Heh.
I am not too worried about the instapundits getting it all wrong. There is more than enough meat on this bone for a feast of truth as the days wear on.
Jane maps out the landscape as a new day dawns.
And for fuck’s sake, Oblahblah should clean house NOW starting with Emmanuel, Geithner, Summers, Holder, and whoever else is pissing in the water.
The Corporatist crowd can’t deliver this time. They thought they could pull off another 90′s but its not to be. The Gopers are not going to cooperate with Obama because they want the power and so far saying No is working for them to get it back.
Yes, the exit polls seem to be missing. I think MA liberals pulled off a Protest Vote. Whether the Dems “get it” or not is not the full picture. The liberals that pulled off the protest vote, if that is what it was, know it is possible in the future: They got their message out, strategic voting, and organized it in a shot period of time, and that is empowerment. Knowing the stats on their Independents is the key. Are they more liberal or moderate?
Is it possible that this isn’t predominantly about Obama, Rahm, Reid, Pelosi and Co?
Is it possible that this is a systemic failure?
Is the real problem that our unique constitutional system developed at the end of the 18th century for a smallish, agrarian nation, indelibly stained by its peculiar instution, does not afford a proper framework for reasonable governance of the United States in the 21st century?
I’m not wondering very much any more, but there’s still a smidgen of doubt in my mind on this one:
How much of this foot-dragging is simple spite? This is clearly the case with Lieberman, but I get that vibe from both Rahm and Obama as well. It seems the latter gets that scrinched-up face whenever “progressives” obtrude into the dialogue.
Good idea. I’m one of those over 55 and @ 60 laid off with no possible prospects I’d open a new business in a flash if I had the $$ but what $$ I have I have to watch carefully instead or end up eating dog food. Don’t count on the gang in the WH or Congress to get any of what were saying though. They only listen to the guys in the Corp. suites they have absolutely no interest in their own base.
indeed they do.
but my bottom line is that reform should not make things worse and a medicare buy-in if not done right puts medicare itself at risk. (so long as insurance corp lobbyists are around to game the system, i don’t think it will be done right). so, imo, medicare expansion is acceptable whereas a medicare buy-in is not.
but i agree, what we really need is the whole thing now: improved and expanded medicare for all. and for the deficit hawks (and deficit doves) finance it via taxes (as in hr. 676 or s.703). after all, we’re paying for it already.
everybody in, nobody out
no co-pays, no deductibles, no co-insurance
doctors and hospitals compete for our business
By George, you’ve got it! Now I trust we’ll not be hearing more about Mr. Norquist.
AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Now that Rahm Emmanuel has played 1994 on the Democratic Party, will the progressives in the House of Representatives save their party and Barak Obama’s scrawny little ass and either force reconcilliation or kill the bill. And can Obama be trusted if he promises reconcilliation down the road and, most importantly, where will the lunatic libertarians of Ron Paul fall when it comes to saving healthcare reform…they have been a major player in the rightwing healthcare death squads and Teabagger rhetorical blitz against healthcare reform.
So it all falls down to this: can Nancy Pelosi hold her troops together and force the White House to pitch Rahm overboard, thus insuring her own survival as Speaker and savin’ the Democratic Party in 2010 AND Obama in 2012?
And are you tellin’ me that the lunatic libertarians you been playin footsie with will support real public healthcare reform…I thought not!!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THE IS JUST A BATTLE…THE WAR GOEZ ON AND ON AND…!!!
There were no exit polls. The news group that puts them together felt there was too little time.
Jane,
Thank you for providing an FDL statement on the election results and health care reform going forward.
However, I think you’re being entirely too reasonable! ;^)
And this is right on:
Democrats have to advance real reform rather than try to spin efforts to tweak the old broken system as if it were real reform.
If they show people real reform in the health care & financial services industries – i.e. if they take on the cartels -, electoral victories in Nov are assured!
FROM DU
It is a truly remarkable feat, in just one year’s time, to turn the fear and anger voters felt in 2006 and 2008 at a Republican Party that had destroyed the economy, redistributed massive amounts of wealth from the middle class to the richest of the rich and the biggest of big businesses, and waged a trillion-dollar war in the wrong country, into populist rage at whatever Democrat voters can cast their ballot against.
All of this was completely predictable. And it was predicted. I wrote about it for the first time here on the sixth day of Obama’s presidency, and many of us have written about it in the intervening year.
The President’s steadfast refusal to acknowledge that we have a two-party system, his insistence on making destructive concessions to the same party voters had sent packing twice in a row in the name of “bipartisanship,” and his refusal ever to utter the words “I am a Democrat” and to articulate what that means, are not among his virtues.
We have competing ideas in a democracy–and hence competing parties–for a reason. To paper them over and pretend they do not exist, particularly when the ideology of one of the parties has proven so devastating to the lives of everyday Americans, is not a virtue. It is an abdication of responsibility.
Your right. My guess is they’ll do the absolutely wrong thing and cut back on everything to please Summers and Rubin and the Corporatist crowd. Everything but giving the Military and the Banks and every other major Corp. what they want. The left will be ignored and attacked as the problem. Since they’ll see the base staying with them no matter what as they did in Mass. The whole effort now will be to make the Blue dogs happy and its a road to absolute disaster.
Jane, this was perfect and perfectly put.
I only hope there are enough Dems — make that ANY Dems — smart enough, fed up enough or desperate enough to take the right path.
Unfortunately, I’m rapidly losing hope that those folks exist. As David Mamet once wrote, “I’d wish ‘em luck but they wouldn’t know what to do with it.”
Jane Hamsher. Thank you.Stay with it.
Joe Lieberman needs to be cut loose. Sooner. Better.
More Howard Dean.
Less Rahm Emanuel.
Ditch 2009 HCR attempt and admit it is owned by corporatists,AHIP,PhARMA.
Bring Medicare down to 55 by mid 2010.
Cover botton 50-70 million Americans with no or low healthcare coverage with reset federalized Medicaid for all 50 states. One Card System based on household income verified on one IRS form completion.
Break up Wall Street Mob. Indict and prosecute the crooks.
Let the light of day shine in on Bush/Cheney torture regime. Indict and prosecute the war criminals. Follow the trail wherever it goes.
Bring back updated FDR New Deal components for jobless and hopeless. Now.
Do some good. A change bottom half of Americans can see and believe in.
Whatever is going to happen with healthcare, it will happen quickly. Dems don’t want to be fighting for additional months about a plan that no one understands and fewer and fewer people want anyway. They will move on to find some apple pie legislation that the goopers may consider fighting.
Cap and Trade is likely dead too- for this year.
Firepup Freedom Fighters:
Can any of the legislative wonks out there tell me if Obama can get reconcilliation out of where the bill sits right now or does the House need to pass the Senate version and then trust Obama to reconcile it in the next budget bill?
Some “neutral” observer on NPR MarketWatch this AM said the Mass vote proved that people DON’T want a fee/tax imposed on banks.
This pundit also said the people are against the massive bank bailouts, AND don’t want regulations imposed on banks.
Reason, thy name is mocked on U.S. media.
FWIW, here is a snapshot of the stock prices of the health insurance cartel from earlier this morning: Aetna Inc. (AET 32.44, -0.22, -0.67%) , Cigna Corp. (CI 38.35, +0.43, +1.13%) , Humana Inc. (HUM 50.91, -1.03, -1.98%) , UnitedHealth Group Inc. (UNH 34.67, -0.46, -1.31%) and Wellpoint Inc. (WLP 68.90, +0.84, +1.23%) .
Everyone is down except Cigna and WellPoint, which may mean those two had less exposure to the Senate version of feudalism.
These early results confirm FDL reporting that the health insurance cartel wrote the version of the bill that passed the Senate.
This is supposed to be a representative form of government. If the Democrats have trouble learning what the voters want, let’s find another Party.
Citizen rwcole:
Cap and trade has been dead since Rahm Emmanuel took over as Cheif of Staff, what the White House is countin’ on is that bankin’ regulation will expose the fascists in the other party and save the Dems in November….however there ain’t gunna be bankin’ regulation unless Obama gets rid of Rahm and Pelosi can get the Blue Dogs by the balls.
Weiner was good last night. Saying that what has been put together is WAY to complicated and that it should be trashed. He advocates broadening Medicare and Medicaid instead. He didn’t say how it should be paid for.
It se ems like a wise sentiment, but it seems way to late to backtrack and debate a whole new approach.
Dems want to do something quickly and get health care off the table.
The only thing a person could figure when Rahm was appointed was that Obama wanted to keep those who would undermine his Presidency close at hand
Obama stays in office until Social Security is destroyed. That was the plan from the beginning and nothing is going to change that. Control of congress might change but the thieves who own this government need a Democrat in the White House to drive the final nail into the coffin of the New Deal.
When are you guys going to figure it all out? How much longer are you going to think like children and believe in Obama?
http://redbloodedamericanboy.com/2009/12/14/bill-clinton-was-my-obama-how-long-will-you-believe-in-obama
You are assuming that investors have the faintest idea of how the health care legislation would affect the industry. Investors are about as dumb as everyone else.
I appreciate your commitment to fiscal responsibility. In the short term, I will take a Medicare buy in, because it keeps dollars out of the health insurance cartel. That imho paves the way for a more sustainable single payer model.
I am concerned about the no co pays, no deductibles. IMHO, without those, you lose the patient as an important piece of the quality control package. Apologies if this has been explained in previous threads.
“We’re paying for it already” is exactly right, and the people’s blindness to that fact is stunning. So sold are they on the (utterly imaginary) “free-market system” that they’d rather pay for the obscene profits of insurance companies THAN THEIR OWN CARE. Oy.
That seems kinda convenient.
You obviously don’t read much here.
…and nice blogwhore BTW
The Medicare Inclusion Act:
2010…. age 60
2011…. 55
2012…. 50
until conception!
and so on, pleasing InsuranceCorpPharma by gradually reducing from its “clients” the more expensive folks…
Citizen Leen:
I certainly thought that Obama was gunna try and use Rahm against himself…but I admit I was livin’ on the smoke of hope. I don’t think Obama had any intension of savin’ the New Deal or the Democratic Party. Harold Ford is the poor man’s Barak Obama…if you want to see Obama’s base political and social values take a listen to Harold Howdy Dooty Ford.
Dems will win if unemployment dips below 8% by election day and will lose otherwise. I don’t think that many people give a rat’s ass about bank regulation- important as it may be.
Bingo. Watching Blankfein squeal “hurricane” during that last hearing was so fucking arrogant I could barely breathe. Blaming his along with the other banking thugs efforts to make billions is criminal. Blaming their immoral actions on a “hurricane” was just flat out pathetic. Was so glad when Angelides called him out immediately. A “hurricane” is an act of nature the financial fiasco was “man made”
Blankfein went on and repeated that all of these mistakes need to be looked at in the “context of the times” As if it was a war zone where everything goes, rape, slaughter etc. What a pig.
Until some of these fat cat thugs who knew exactly what they were doing are treated like the thugs who steal from a corner drug store the peasants are not going to be satisfied.
I couldn’t disagree more, and I’m surprised that so many progressives still get it wrong.
HCR looks just like all the crap that Washington usually spits out, and that’s the problem. Pushing this just reminds people that Dems haven’t changed a thing.
For every bit of meaningful reform (trashing pre-existing conditions) there’s even more bits of the ‘same old, same old’ (corporate giveaway by making people buy a bad product). And there’s nothing in the bill that meaningfully reduces costs for those who have insurance.
Here’s how it looks to most folks: the banking/finance industry screwed the country and its people. The Dems fixed the leaks but then ignored any other fixes while they concentrated on their Dem ‘pet projects’ (HCR, climate change).
We all know that healthcare and climate change are problems that need to be addressed but they are lower priority than jobs and banking/finance reform. Pushing the former over the latter is just a recipe for political suicide.
As long as we play political poker on the table set-up for us, we working class Americans will all and always be losers. The loser’s table is called the Democratic-Republican Name Calling Distraction Action Table. That’s a FIXED game, in which The House ALWAYS wins.
It’s time to to go to the table where the real action is. Right now, the only interests seated at that table are the funders of our political system. They are able to deal themselves straight aces every hand that come right from the Common Wealth of the U.S. They all feast on the wealth and power of America, while we losers at the Democratic-Republican Name Calling Distraction Action Table fight over some rehashed and reheated slop.
It’s time to get wise to the Real Poker Game in America, and go over to the Real Action Table.
Um, I think maybe you replied to the wrong comment?
One of the biggest problems with the economy is the mood of the people, they are angry and scared. Imagine how single payer would effect us. It would be a system wide shock, give everyone hope that things are getting better and help is on the way. It might jump start the whole economy. It would be a bold move to turn Obama’s presidency around. But then again, it would be real change we can’t have that.
Hey have Wendell Potter or Howard Dean come anytime recently to discuss what is happening with the HCR right now. What is their advice their take right now? Would make for a great Salon
So Obama is a part of a vast conspiracy to destroy Social Security? I assume we have the normal evidence for that- namely none?
Sounds like a tea bagger site!
Rham was a Wall Street investment banker!
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Citizen Flamethrower – per Jane’s post from yesterday
The steps to get through “sidecar” reconciliation:
1.House passes the Senate bill
2.House and Senate pass a “fix” to the excise tax that they’ve negotiated
3.Find a way to pay for the “fix,” which costs $60 billion. The best way to pay for it without raising taxes means putting in a public option, expanding Medicare, passing Dorgan’s drug reimportation amendment, or some combination of the above.
4.House and Senate then pass the “fix” through reconciliation, which requires a simple majority. 51 Senators have said they’d vote for Schumer’s “level playing field” public option, while 51 voted for Dorgan’s drug reimportation amendment.
and the ever wonky Jon Walker concurs
Always nice to see you.
I could easily be wrong, but I do not think individual investors are making these bets. Investors Trade Stocks for Bonds
You may interpret the article differently. I thought it lent itself to the idea that a higher percentage of stock purchases are made by the professionals.
Slightly OT but here’s a link to a video well worth watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTF2Xb6uvAw
Yep- sorry!
Jon Walker upstairs with new thready goodness
Most important fact is that the constitution does not say, Ye shall have medical treatment paid by all people.
So, it seems to me, that the constitution rejects right to be treated for any illness!
But that is not the only right US constitution tacitly rejects. It also denies the right to live to afghanis, iraqis, palestinians. It denies the ROR for palestinians.
It had denied blacks freedom and redpeople right to live and abide in one’s habitat or to return to it.
And it denies americans the right to participate in governing US and managing their affairs. Obviously, US constitution and ‘lwas’ that emerge from it, demands US be governed by people who own US!
Constitution also denies to most americans their right to have a role in any lawmaking. more cld be said! tnx
Jon Walker has a fresh cross-post available: NY-01: Bishop 47%, Altschuler 45%, Adding Public Option Makes Mandate 26% More Popular With Republicans
Jane,
The same goes for the Repugs.
People are just fed up with the corporate buying of both parties. We will play this seesaw between both parties until there is transparency.
And,
what selise said @5
I don’t disagree but clearly voters get the sense that Banksters are still “getting away with it” -
Citizen cbl2:
That’s what I thought and that’s why I think killin’ the bill and lettin’ the voters decide who gets the ax in November is the only way we eventually get rid of both Rahm AND Obama. Do you really think that if the Dems pass this terrible bill ObamaRhama will fix it through reconcilliation….of course not. Progressives aren’t gunna suffer in November because healthcare reform didn’t pass but Blue Dogs and Obamabots will.
I apologize if this has been addressed elsewhere in the comment, but I’m in a rush.
Last night on Countdown, Lawrence O’Donnell said that reconciliation “won’t happen, because the process would require multiple procedural votes, each requiring a super majority.” What’s the story on that?
Bernanke is still in charge of the Fed.
Wrongway Timmy Geithner is still in charge of Treasury.
They came this close to using the IRS to help the health insurance cartel sell really shitty insurance.
We are still funding both sides of wars in the Middle East.
Fourth Amendment is still gone and Guantamono is still open.
That’s called moral hazard don’t you know?
I think MOST people would accept and not ask for again a big one time pay out. Unlike the Banks who are ready to asked again if they fuck up enough, saying the world will come to a stop if such a thing happen. Please, the world didn’t stop in 1930. A few rich people became poor and jumped out of buildings. This was no different, nothing happen but a few people killed themselves because they couldn’t believe they lost all that money in the market.
The Dems in power save for a few are not worth saving UNLESS they do what we elected them to do. Some seem to get it, many and I do mean many don’t seem to get it.
Nobody is talking about jamming through unpopular policy, on the contrary, we want them do FINALLY do the right thing and push back against YEARS of Conservative thinking when this country is actually much more Center Left than Center Right and no where near Far Right.
This whole process was fumbled from the start, just what IS the Public Option? I can’t BELIEVE the Left is still willing to use that term after its been dragged though the mud.
Wiener is from Brooklyn – “Brooklyn we go hard, we go hard”
That means Expanding Medicare To Everybody, no optional buy-in nonsense.
Expanding it only to 55 would only be a form of a “Field Goal” when we need a touchdown to win.
I’m not sure what percentage of trades and/or holdings are done by institutional investors vs. individual investors- but I don’t assume that institutional investors understand whether the legislation is a net plus or net minus for insurance companies. At any rate, today’s trading may or may not be by informed investors.
Yes on Grit TV last week… (Potter)
rwcole:
How ’bout the comission that ObamaRahma is rammin’ thru Congress as we argue angels on the heads of pins? Obama and Rahm are committed to killin’ Social Security and I think that you’d better wake up to this or yer gunna be left with no social security and your “blue chips” in your retirement portfolio are gunna be worthless.
Do you see this as evidence that Obama is a part of a conspiracy to destroy social security? or am I misunderstanding?
I agree. Isn’t it amazing that we read very little of the diatribe put forth by BlueTexan today. I guess we are finally growing the fuck up. How refreshing.
They will choke on those pretzels if they are not very careful!
… and make sure they had the keys to the kingdom too. :((
GLENZILLA nails it
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/index.html?story
Sure because 8 percent U3 is something to dream about.
Unemployment will not be 8 percent, as bad that really is, next year under any scenario suggested by anyone including the Fed. On the rat’s ass issue, I do know quite a few people that see the state of economy and the financial bailouts as being two sides of the same coin. Saving the rich at the expense of the economy and jobs. The dispersement of a limited resource.
If you’re correct then Ds are toast.
think that commission died in a whimper some time late last week – not that there wont be another, but the threat was downgraded if I recall correctly
The evidence of course is all circumstantial. Looking back at Bubba who did backflips to get things passed for the GOP that it couldn’t pass itself – NAFTA, GATT, WTO, extension of the federal death penalty, destruction of welfare- through to the complicity of almost everyone in congress in removing the availability of bankruptcy for working and middle class families. The amount of the deficit both current account and domestic will be used as an excuse to cut spending; it’s already being floated with Conrad and Gregg’s commission of reducing the deficit.
What the GOP couldn’t accomplish with Bush, privatization of Social security, will be accomplished with a Democrat. It’s also something that Wall Street needs in order to continue the profit flow by taking money from working people in the form of fees for managing private retirement accounts.
I could care less what it sounds like, I just know what it is and how it’s going to be done. I already collect Social Security and am watching it start already by receiving no cost of living increase this year even though food and fuel costs have increased. When no one is making loud arguments that there is no reason for cutting Social Security in order to reduce the deficit but that eliminating Bush’s tax cuts would go a long way to fixing the problem, well to me the fix is in and it’s just a matter of time.
Health care stocks have been surging, because of the Senate version of the bill.
92 As long as we continue to be so deeply in debt, and the trade imbalance continues to widen, Social Security will be at risk.
It’s past time for Democrats to end the practice of concessionary politics. Republicans aren’t admired for conceding on the issues. They are admired for sticking to their guns.
If the Senate rules can be used to bring about a people’s victory on health care – a plan that isn’t a corporate giveaway – they should do it NOW. They would be insane not to push through. Otherwise, it’s goodbye majorities.
They are probably going to loose seats in both houses-
Potter has noted how the insurance companies will make lotsa money given all the loopholes in the current “health care reform” bill.
I know I certainly grew up. Guess all I needed was some healthy inspiration.
Got a few new stretch marks though.
fwiw, here ya go.
Obama is dead set against privatizing social security. It won’t happen. Trying to do it is what killed GW Bush’s approval ratings for good early in his second term.
It is likely that Obama may try to increase funding for social security by raising the cutoff for payments or by changing the way COLA increases are calculated.
In fact, Rachel pointed out last night on MSNBC that Brown didn’t even run as a Republican, not indicating it on his campaign bus etc.
He ran as an outsider against the insiders, and surprised everyone.
(Then, after he won, he shamelessly used his daughters as a prop during his long victory speech… what was that?)
Cap and trade should stay dead. It’s nothing but a sham, setting up a market to trade carbon credits like shares among the polluters. Making a profit by trading paper.
“likely 2010 voters “oppose a mandate to purchase private insurance by 64% to 34% but support a mandate with a choice of private or public insurance by 60% to 37%.””
That doesn’t represent much of a change. I think that well intentioned reform advocates have never really fully reckoned with the–completely common sense fact–that the INDIVIDUAL MANDATE itself is extremely unpopular.
True, you can sort of rationalize that with a public option there is a larger public purpose in your loss of control over your own life, but I’ve never been able to figure out WHY it is that these people should be FORCED to carry the cost of people’s HOPES of reform for the national collective.
Nor can I figure out what right reform advocates have to make them bear it. The bottom line is you DON’T have that right.
The excuse that is offered is a moralistic screed worthy of the most right wing blow hard: People without group insurance are all basically free riding moral cretins who go to the emergency room. So, we should deploy the force of the federal government in pre-emptive punitive action.
This makes no sense. Collections does not go away when you use health services without insurance. Far from it.
The thing to do is to create a public program that people WANT to buy into, not one they’re FORCED to buy into with money they don’t have to protect assets they don’t have either.
People can make their own financial decisions.
“Ezra Klein says that “a Democratic Party that would abandon their central initiative this quickly isn’t a Democratic Party that deserves to hold power.””
The individual mandate a neo-liberal DLC idea all along. Just because they made it that much worse by taking the public option off the table, doesn’t mean people are going like their new unaffordable government bill any better.
I’m not AT ALL convinced that this isn’t a BAD idea that SHOULD be abandoned. I still think it is a right wing anti-government making machine.
Very short sighted politics. Well, at least if you’re well intentioned. The right wing DLC is no doubt loving it up. This mandate thing is not going to go away just by adding the so-called “public option.”
Amen to that! Just like Bush, Obama has created so many outrages that we are starting to forget some of them.
Once Wall Street is brought to heel, a grateful populous will allow us to pass whatever Health Care bill we want.
Broccoli before dessert.
i’m not actually either a deficit hawk or a deficit dove (if you are interested in why, you might read warren mosler’s 7 Deadly Innocent Frauds. in addition to being imo a very important statement on the country’s economy and monetary system, it’s a fun read with true stories that include characters such as al gore and larry summers), but i don’t think healthcare needs to be the place to fight this issue. so i concede the fiscal issue on this one. but will return to fight another day.
one of the problems with a medicare buy in is that it is a recipe for cherry picking and adverse selection with very strong regulation and enforcement for things like risk adjustment (and we just don’t have the regulatory environment required). so, that would mean more $$ to the insurance companies while medicare gets the sickest and most expensive people.
i’m not sure i understand. do you mean quality of healthcare or cost control or something else? so long as there are out of pocket expenses, healthcare will be for some people rationed by ability to pay. i think that is unacceptable, and furthermore not necessary.
“sidecar” reconciliation is just a fancy term for a bait and switch. If the reconciliation part isnt done BEFORE they pass the Senate bill, then it wont happen at all. The “bait” is the promise of passing something in addition to the Senate bill. The switch is that once they pass the Senate bill, they wont bother passing anything else.
Mark Iwry of the Treasury and Phyllis Borzi of the Department of Labor are currently spearheading an investigation into annuitizing 401k’s and IRA’s. The work being based on a paper that Iwry wrote while at the Brookings Institute. Think if it as an interesting step on the road of privatizing retirements. Whether this will relate to Social Security funding in the future is too hard to guess.
Being certain of what Obama’s people want to accomplish on any topic is definitely not one of my skills.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/19/AR2010011903310.html
smells like dismantling Social Security to me?
i don’t think people are blind to the fact. i think they don’t know. and they don’t know because there has been a concerted effort to keep us uninformed or misinformed.
i highly recommend this series of posts to you and to anyone interested in some of this story:
Two-thirds of Americans support Medicare-for-all part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5, part 6
Lawrence O’Donnell said much the same last night or this morning on MSNBC, though in different terms.
naomi klein ahead of her time: All Of Them Must Go
How could it not be about all of the above?
Malarky.
read it all the way through.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/us/politics/20commission.html
Cap and Trade needs to be dead forever. Matt Taiibi says it will cause the next bubble like housing and dotcoms. Only difference the middle man will be eliminated. The money goes straight to Wall Street.Similiar euphemism to No Child Left Behind. ..which dealt a severe blow to education. Cap and Trade would deal a similiar blow to environmentalists and US. Our electricity bills are going up already for absolutely nothing.
Naomi brilliant and ahead of her time on some issues. Glad to witness her jumping on the anti occupation actions in the last year. A welcome, brilliant, articulate, addition to the 40 year old movement.
She was right on the disaster capitalist circling around Haiti right now.
He has been amazing.
You’re absolutely right.
One of the interesting things about cap and trade is that it makes pollution a potential profit center for financial institutions involved in the trades. Traders would be at a disadvantage if there are too many countries with too many pollution laws. The more countries with strict pollution laws the smaller the market.
I read an interesting alternative the involved credits that would be given to everyone and spent as people used them to assist in the purchase of products. The more green the fewer credits spent. Very smart because it tries to apply the problem to individuals and their purchasing habits but totally unworkable.
Appreciate the response.
Without some financial responsibility falling on the patient, there are massive opportunities for fraud to be perpetrated on the taxpayers. That does not mean the government could not send the patient a letter, monthly statement, including dates of service…..explaining how much was paid to providers attending to their case. It is just not the same as having to write a check.
In addition to intentional fraud, there are unintentional mistakes which the consumer has an incentive to catch.
amen.
another perfect example of obvious solutions to benefit the vast majority of americans my own party refuses to even consider because they might anger some corporate donors.
the obvious solution is hansen’s carbon tax and 100% dividend.
from hansen’s The People vs. Cap‐and‐Tax:
i’ll have to think about that, but off the top of my head i don’t think so. a $20 copay is not incentive to check the bill. and even if it was, i don’t i, as a patient would be the best person to know if there was over charging. but will think more on it….
No, he’s right. This is what I do for a living. Healthcare stocks rallied 30-40% as soon as the outlines of the Senate bill became known. Now, they are weak because something different and less industry-friendly may be enacted. Makes perfect sense. Investors are not dumb at all times ;).
oops. almost missed your comment… any suggestions for helping get this message across? healthcare today, but that one can’t wait.
Ever heard of the Third Way‘ers — most of the bunch that supported Obama over Clinton.
If Obama negotiates “Entitlement Reform” the same way he negotiated Health Reform — I don’t know about you, but ‘I’ would be a little concerned.
Earlier today, I sent Barack Obama the following e-mail:
—————————-
In 2008, my wife and I enthusiastically supported you candidacy in both
the Primary and General elections. The other day I was forced, by your
perfidy, to send the following e-mail to my friends and family:
——————————-
Because we “dared to hope”, ALL of us were made into “suckers” in 2008.
NOW it’s time to understand what happened (and it STILL happening).
Give the current course, the future is FRIGHTENING. It will take several
miracles and a great deal of effort to “right the course” and put our
country back on track. If that has ANY chance of happening, it will be
because YOU…and I…realize HOW (it happened), WHY (that course will
ultimately reduce the American people to mere “peasants”), and WHAT (needs
to be done to restore the AMERICAN PEOPLE as the true “owners” of this
country).
EACH OF YOU….has a CHOICE! You can be part of the problem….or you
can be part of a solution. But if you FAIL to be the second, then you
ARE MOST ASSUREDLY an integral part of the FIRST!!! To Do Nothing is to
fail yourself, your family and your country.
The choice is clearly up to EACH OF YOU!!!!
For openers, read and understand the following article:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2010/01/13/reich_banks_open2010/index.html?source=newsletter
To me, one thing is crystal clear!! OBAMA IS A LIAR AND A WHORE!!! The
Democratic Party is nearly as bad (with some exceptions)! And our ONLY
way out is….and this troubles me greatly….is to vote them out of power
in 2010 and again in 2012.
WE MUST DENY OBAMA A SECOND TERM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This means either
sitting out these two elections or…..and I may VOMIT….support the
Repug-nican candidates. But unless the Democratic Party is MADE TO KNOW
that it cannot sell out the American people and still retain power,
NOTHING WILL CHANGE!!! Desperate times require drastic measures…..and
in my nearly 85 years, I have never…NEVER…seen this country in such
TOTALLY DESPERATE shape!!! Ergo, I am prepared to…and WILL… take all
of the above actions
What we need is a ROOSEVELT!!! “FDR” would be preferred, but Teddy would
definitely do !!!
What we HAVE is NOT a Leader; NOT a visionary; NOT a Reformer; NOT even an
HONEST, DECENT person.
What we HAVE is dishonest, conniving, deceptive and totally GUTLESS whore
who will sell his country….and ours…to the HIGHEST BIDDER….and then
laugh all the way to the BANK!!!!
Sincerely,
He also indicated that reconciliation could be blocked by procedural motions that require sixty votes to break through. Presumably that would be the case regardless of when the resolution conference took place, now or later.
For the record, comments advocating violent reform of government will be removed from the page.
The guarantee of free speech means you get to start your own publication without interference from the government; it does not mean you get to say whatever pleases you on Jane’s blog.
If you feel this is the pressing moral issue of the day, feel free to express yourself at length here.
He promised change and delivered continuity.
There’s a spin that I haven’t seen that came to me as I was waiting for power to return – the Senate party make up after Brown is seated is better than it was one year ago – January 20,2009 58-D,41R and when Brown is seated it will be 59-D-41R.
Or are we all forgetting that the filibuster proof majority only came about after Franken was seated (July 7, 2009) and Arlen Spector switched parties (April 28, 2009). 6 months of “filibuster proof” (scare quotes because Lieberman certainly isn’t a real democrat) isn’t a lot of time.
This is not to excuse the pandering in the Senate Finance committee to try to carve off Snowe or Collins, nor the far worse compromises made to assure Nelson and Lieberman’s votes.
yep. cat food commission.
It would be if you did not know the physician and had not had the appointment.
I could see a lot of unscrupulous physicians testing the system in all kinds of ways. An obvious trick would be by billing their most senile nursing home patients for services not provided. They could kick back a percentage of what they rake in back to the nursing home. In return for that, the nursing home lies to the government and certifies that some benefit was in fact provided.
You are infinitely better informed than I, about the technical side of the options that are out there. In terms of selling the legislation, I think it might be easier to package it with co pays and deductibles. I admire your concerns about rationing and I do not have a good response.
Well, they can’t be too upset, you did say “Sincerely,”
I’m a left liberal Mass Dem voter and I voted for Brown to stop the corrupt Obama health care giveaway to the corporations. Since everyone I elected on the basis of supporting a public option ended up being a liar, I had only one way to stop Obama and that was to vote against him through Brown. So I did. And in 2012 I will hopefully have better alternatives to Brown and Coakley to choose from again. I know other Mass liberal Dem voters who did likewise. I don’t know any Mass blue dog Dems.
No reason why we can’t expand it to those 18 and under, and those over 45 through reconciliation, is there?
We need to join with Independents, find common ground, because this government offends our sensibilities.
“WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The White House and congressional Democrats have reached a tentative deal to set up a task force that could make it easier for lawmakers to approve tax increases, spending cuts or other unpopular measures needed to reduce budget deficits, lawmakers and aides said on Tuesday.
The proposed commission would enable President Barack Obama to say he is taking steps to reduce record budget deficits over the long term during his State of the Union address next week without having to spell out how he would do so.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/19/AR2010011902175.html
“Charter Schools: Another Failed Bi-Partisan Policy Obama Is In Love With
by: Paul Rosenberg
A new report, “”Multiple Choice: Charter School Performance in 16 States.””(pdf) (pdf executive summery / pdf press release), from Stanford University’s Center for Research on Education Outcomes, or CREDO, finds that charter schools significantly underperform overall compared to the traditional public schools they are supposed to improve on–a major embarrassment that will no doubt be ignored, just as all evidence of privatization and corporatization are ignored, especially since Obama’s basketball buddy and Secretary of Education Arne Duncan is a huge charter school booster.”
http://openleft.com/diary/13962/charter-schools-another-failed-bipartisan-policy-obama-is-in-love-with
We need to join with Independents, find common ground, because this government offends our sensibilities.
The President was elected with a mandate. Rahm convinced him to move to the middle IMO.
Progressives and Independents want to see Wall Street, banks, health care and credit card companies made to be competitive and fair.
This was Obama’s mandate. Instead, he made deals with them.
The President should bring in a new team that really cares about middle class Americans.
If the President, Rahm, Reid, and others try to justify that this was Coakley’s fault or they need to move further to the middle, we will lose big in 2010.
The President was elected because of his BOLD talk of change. He needs to remember this and start taking the action he is capable of doing.
You might want to rethink that observation. The commission business that Norske was talking about @91 sounds like it has the potential to do that through bypassing Congress. I saw an article over at DU within the last hour or so (that I didn’t read) that made me think it might about that commission business. If I weren’t on dial-up, I’d try to find it for you.
At this point in time, I don’t trust obama being dead set against *anything* other than royally screwing up chances for dims to accomplish anything of value in the next three years. :-(
Can you tell I’m totally upset at the moment? *g*
Exactly. Especially, read the last paragraph:
Pete Peterson is dedicated to ripping up America’s social safety net. This commission is what Jane and David have been referring to as the “catfood commission,” as in making old ladies eat catfood.
Here is some helpful background.
You should do a diary on that at the Seminal. That would be really interesting.
Exactly!
Jane, I remarked over at your HuffPo item that there should be a web site for Mass voters like selise to post their reasoning re the Coakley-Brown election.
There could be a subsection of such a site for the thoughts of those of us who were beseeched constantly to donate or man phone banks, and why we did neither.
If Obama, Axelrod et al. had a brain, they’ put a site up. Instead, when we DFHs post such wisdom, they write it off.
Just remember that politicians aren’t inherently moral or immoral beings, they are going to take the path of least resistance. It’s our job to determine what that path is.
” For the record, comments advocating violent reform of government will be removed from the page.”
That rule is frankly like a glaring white flag of surrender. That tells the opposition that you’ll go so far but not further in defending your constitutional freedoms.
Be as it may, progressives need to get real vocal about Rubinomics.
It seems to me that we’re very reluctant to hold middle-class people like medical providers accountable to our laws. I think that we can do much to prevent medicare fraud if we radically increase enforcement resources and make it clear that people practicing it will go to jail. Perhaps we ought to try that before we use solutions based on problematic eonomic incentives. Also, increasing enforcement efforts would create more permanent Government jobs. It’s economic stimulus!
Blogging about that, in part, and also sidecar reconciliation, here.
Re MEMO
TO: Lanny Davis, Rahm Emanuel, David Axelrod, James Carville, Paul Begala, and all other Neoliberals, Clintonites and Obama Kool-Aid Drinkers
What is the Democratic Party’s electoral record since Howard Dean left as DNC Chair?
How were the Dems doing prior to having Howard Dean as the DNC Chair?
The results are obvious…”
Well said…the Dems are doing much worse under Lieberman’s leadership!
Great statement from Jane.
WOW!!! JUST WOW.
If you felt obliged to CENSOR that last comment as well, then I don’t know how you can look in the mirror. There was absolutely nothing objectionable in there, except that you don’t like the ideas contained.
Is it possible that FDL has now become a significant enough player in the system, that you think protecting the system is now your top priority? Y’all wouldn’t be the first to make that calculation. So Sad.
FOR THE RECORD, the contents of the Declaration of Independence have now been officially banned from this site. Orwell would be proud.
Rubinomics 2.0
that is what we are up against.
Jane:
I know you are only one person but you are a very effective advocate for the aims we all agree on regarding HCR and financial reform and other issues. What accounts for that effectiveness is your reliance on facts such as your surveys provides.
But you need to find a way to disseminate the case for meaningful reform of those areas more broadly among the public. The co-opting the of the wrong lessons from the Coakley debacle have already begun by that insect Lieberman and others and they have to be met head on.
We need to find some mechanism to spread the case for comprehensive reform of those areas into the public before the wrong message begins to take hold. If possible try to make yourself more available in the news shows and ask for more air time. Otherwise as the cold weather begins to ebb we should start planning outdoor meetings and the like.
The time to start mobilizing and agitating for reform is now and has largely fallen on people like yourself and others allied with you that have aquired a public platform. As always you can count on our backing.
rwcole (if you’re still about) -
Here’s the article I was looking for: “Obama to Create Panel to Study Deficit”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/20/us/politics/20commission.html
Sounds like a easy way of reducing the deficit would be to ax Social Security…..at least in the mind of a president and some dim legislators who’ve been so anxious to give bluedogs and republics everything they wanted. :-(
The Constitution that Jammy wrote has worked well to allow for human nature.
Admittedly we have industrialized; something TJ thought was a bad idea.
But I think the Document gives rights and is clear about taking them away. Generally rights are not to be reduced but added. What does “promote the general welfare” apply to? Economic health, environmental health, citizen health of mind and body,and if not, then what? It is not perfect, what would you change?
That’s exactly what Pete Peterson has in mind. See this.
I would get rid of the Senate.
I would appoint Justices to one non-renewable term of 10 years.
I would limit the President to one 6 year term with a condition that the VP could not run for the next term of President.
Karl Rove’s McCain/Palin Hindenburg presidential candidacy is working perfectly.
Bush/Cheney’s legacy promotion and the Money Party’s wealth & power preservation depends on a failed single term Obama administration with paper democratic congressional majorities.
The people running this Kabuki White House either have no concept of how flawed and damaged the country’s foundation has become, or they don’t care because they don’t see how it could possible disturb their re-election in 2012.
This bipartisan rhetoric with no tangible action in the interest of The People is the opposite of FDR’s first administration as he approached the 1936 election.
http://www.milestonedocuments.com/document_detail.php?id=10&more=fulltext
Advancing responsible policy initiatives in a forum of constructive public discourse won’t beat back the unholy alliance between unyielding financial interests, politicians exclusively looking to their next election campaign, and the brownshirt element in our society that Dave Niewert documented in his latest book.
OG, how would that make the President accountable?
Sadly, I Believe You Are Right
Been a fear of mine for a year now . . .
I don’t pay attention to much of what the author says, it’s the simple fact that there WILL be a commission, that’s the key. This is a huge threat . . . it will be spun (already is) as an economic necessity, but it’s gonna be a thinly veiled vehicle to dismantle entitlements and social services across the board.
I’m sure I’m not the first to say this, hope other Pups will chime in.
This commission, it’s Obama going HARD right, VERY hard right, post Coakley.
This, is the red flag warning of what’s to come.
*G*
BINGO! DING! DING!
He/she wouldn’t be accountable to the $.
Thank you Selise, you and Jane are 100% correct. I couldn’t even begin to hope to have said it better.
Bernanke: Social Security is where the money is
(from December, but seemed pertinent to some discussion here)
I laughed out loud. :-) Nicely done.
Reference to Neiwert’s book is here:
David Neiwert is a freelance journalist based in Seattle. He is the author of The Eliminationists: How Hate Talk Radicalized the American Right (PoliPoint Press, May 2009
It looks like the AFL-CIO and the SEIU have endorsed your proposal.
Your reasoning makes complete sense and the airing of that rationale must not be lost on Obama.
That line of reasoning must not get lost amid the already ongoing attempt to paint the discontent of voters in MA as being due to their objection of government overreaching in its attempt to reform health care and the banks and other such idiotic distortions of the truth.
Whereas in fact the discontent was directed at Obama’s inept and useless attempt at making reform meaningful.
Rules re: encouraging violence are for everyone’s protection and sanity, not to mention that a progressive website that sometimes advocates ending war is probably not a good place to be spouting violence or endorsing the violent overthrow of anything or anyone.
I don’t want it to be true, but we’ve seen “welfare reform” under Bubba, “bankruptcy reform” under Dubya with the complicity of the Dems, and they are working on “entitlement reform.” Maybe we need to scrutinize anyone with a “a” at the end of their name (and I’m not being anti-Italian or anti-Hispanic).
The vast deficits which the criminal Bush administration left for whoever came next were designed to be a sort of fait accompli as far as eroding the social safety net goes. Of course, we can find plenty of billions of dollars for the Pentagon just not so much for the millions of Americans, many of the veterans, who will at some point need the government in order to barely survive.
Wow! Jane’s post is by far the best thing I have read on this topic. I’ve read about the different parts at some other places, but her post really shows how everything can work together. I could not agree more.
Jane, Adam Green’s Research 2000 poll on the MA senate results is out. If Obama doesn’t get the message from this, I would assume he won’t be allowed to read it.
Like we needed a rocket scientist to tell us that.
“Joe Lieberman was personally responsible for killing the public option/Medicare expansion in the Senate bill.”
Joe lie berman is personally responsible for killing the medicare expansion. killing the PO was not as easy, no one person to blame. But lie berman was in the kitchen with rahm and nelson and snowe and baucuss shoving its head in the oven, when obama stood at the door and winked and chatted up the mailman.
Many Democrats in the U.S. House and Senate (e.g. Webb), along with the inept media don’t have a clue of what Brown beating Coakley means. They think it is a sign the Democrats are to “liberal” and need to move to the right to survive. The real problem is they are to far to the RIGHT already and need to move much further to the left to be re-elected. The bank bailouts by Barack Obama are not socialism but extreme right, pro-business, pro-Wall Street collaboration. Obama is either being played for a fool by Wall Street or he is a fraud.
I would guess Obama will be a one-term President. The Progressive democrats need to save themselves by being true “Progressives” not pro-business Democrats like Obama and his staff, by doing what intelligent, honest leaders would do, such as making sure the big banks are allowed/forced to go bankrupt like they really are. The democrats need to push forward a public option without a mandate clause, in a health care bill. Republicans are secretly in favor of the big bank bailouts (big business bailouts) and turn the argument around
crying socialism and no one seems to be noticing, not to mention the fact that they themselves love huge government in the form of fake wars and the War (Defense) Department. Think like a Republican for a moment, and you’ll understand!
Sorry Casual Observer but I would guess that lots of the Democrats who voted for Brown are progressives. They wanted to send Rahm Obama a message and also stop the anti-progressive “insurance reform” measure that the Democratic party under Obama has hammered out. They also fully understand that Brown’s seat is only for the 2 years remaining on Kennedy’s tenure and that there will be another election for the same seat in 2012. That gives progressives time to organize and come up with a much better candidate than Coakley (someone like Elizabeth Warren, for instance). So, this was a strategic move by many progressive-liberal democrats.
CO-PAYS and Deductibles are tools the insurance company’s use to discourage and deny use of insurance for receiving health care to protect their excessive profits.
Only fee Americans should pay for health care is their fair share of progressive taxes based on their income.
I’m 50. I grew up 100% covered by health insurance. As a child i was covered. As an adult thru the age of 38 i was covered. This was 100% with no co-pays, no deductibles. It was a govt run not for profit health care plan. The primary objective of the plan was health, not profit. The plan itself was non profit. No money exchanged hands. If i needed health care i went and got it.. no cost to me. During the last 50 years i visited the hospital less than once per year on average. Many times it was against my will (shots etc). I had 2 children, fully paid.. didnt cost me a dime. I broke my leg once. I visited the emergency room once.
The health care i was provided was the best in the world, non profit and government run. It was good because the objective again was the actual health of all the members in the plan. NOT DOLLAR PROFITS. Healthy people REDUCED costs.
It wasn’t till i retired from the us military (i was a child dependent us military before joining myself) that i got dumped onto the for profit insurance market. While in the past the us military always took care of retiree’s on space available basis, currently the insurance company’s have infected and destroyed that system. I still have “free” tricare for life. (health insurance) but now i don’t receive health care by choice. The co-pays and deductibles are too prohibitive. (going from “free” to having to pay thousands pretty much turned me off)
Going from the best health care system in the world to the world of the insurance company rip off.. is quite a shock.
I guess i’m telling this story because i firmly believe that any system that is based on conflicting priority’s of profit vs health will NEVER work. Our current system has the mission objective of maximizing profits while minimizing actual health care. Co-pays and deductibles insure that even those with insurance will be reluctant to receive health care. Every dollar of profit.. is health care not provided. The us health insurance system is scam and a national disgrace.
Contending that a govt run health care system would suck is disinformation, propaganda and lies. The worlds BEST health care system IS govt run. The us military active duty health care system.
If our system MUST remain for profit. Those profits should be linked to actual services provided. No health care .. no profits. As it is they profit by denying health care. It’s absolute insanity. Insurance company’s should be required to pay out 95% of every dollar taken in for actual health care. If we must have monopoly’s they should be heavily regulated to protect our nations citizens lives and health.
If congress gets what i had for health insurance.. it’s no wonder they aren’t in a hurry to change anything.. what the hell .. they’re covered pretty good, and those fat checks from the lobbiests are nice too.
Isn’t it better to have higher quality comments in fewer diaries instead of encouraging everyone to have his higher quality ideas in some seperate place?
(missed this yesterday- pooch had surgery well, read it but had to go before I could reply)
Thank you, Jane Hamsher & FirePups!! I really don’t think there would have been enough opposition- or even awareness of this crappy bill if not for your hard work & fierce advocacy. I think it was this thread where someone referred to your calm approach- Yes! It is a stark contrast & a welcome one. This place keeps me sane, believe it or not.