Late yesterday the labor unions struck a deal with the White House about the excise tax. The key points seem to be: raising the threshold, exempting dental and vision benefits from the excise tax, adjusting for age and health status, adding a carve-out for collectively bargained plans until 2018, and starting in 2017, plans created under collective bargaining agreements can move to the exchange.
The indexing problem was not fixed. It will stay at “consumer price index plus 1%.” Therefore, changes like the raising of the threshold or exempting vision benefits do not fix the problem–the tax will eventually start hitting more and more middle class families as time goes on. This deal just means they’ve kicked the can further down the road by several years. It is still very possible this will turn into another alternative minimum tax problem in the next decade.
Exempting dental, in effect, further raises the threshold, but I don’t think this concession was really designed just for the labor unions. I have no proof for this, but I would not be surprised if this change has as much, or even more, to do with keeping dentists happy.
I think the most important change is the adjustment for age, gender, health status, and workplace risk. Very little about the cost of a health care plan has to do with how generous the plan is. Price is most affected by the age and gender of the people being insured. Without knowing the details of how they will calculate this adjustment, I can’t say how good the change is, but ideally, it is structured so the tax tends to hit generous plans, and not just companies that employee a lot of older women.
Moving to the Exchange
The temporary collective bargaining carve-out for the unions is self-explanatory. The provision that allows for the possible moving of collective bargaining plans (i.e. labor union plans) to the exchanges in 2017 seems very fishy. It is especially strange comsidering that the White House seems to be lightly walking back its commitment to this provision.
I don’t understand why unions would want to move to the exchange. Exchanges have so far failed to reduce the growth rate of health insurance. There is little reason to believe they would in the future especially if they are small, state-based exchanges like the ones created by the Senate bill. Most importantly, exchanges add just another middleman, and another layer of waste. Most very large employers self-insure, and only contract out their administrative work to private insurance companies. If, instead of self-insuring, companies gave their union employees vouchers to buy insurance from a private insurance company on the exchange, that would just add a few percentage points more waste to the cost of the care. Also, at this point, I have very little confidence that insurance on the exchange will be good or properly regulated.
Why would anyone want to move from a large employer plan to the new exchanges? I honestly don’t know. My strong suspicion is that there is another very important part to this provision we currently don’t know about. It could be that large unions are planning to move all their members off of multiple employer plans and onto a single, massive plan for the whole union. Maybe the unions got the right to collective bargain on the exchange with insurers. I know in the Netherlands there is a similar system with an exchange for individuals, but large employers are able to collectively bargain for even lower prices. Either way, I get the sense that there is much more to this moving-to-the-exchange provision than we know right now.




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Well, maybe this has something to do with negotiations regarding EFCA.
Just what we need, more vibes that there is something going on behind closed doors without really being able to figure out what. What part of democracy is helped by the people not trusting their government? Oh yeah, the powerful really don’t want a democracy.
Great point on national vs. state exchanges. An issue that’s still in play.
Progressives must offer an ultimatum NOW within the next few hours to the democratic establishment about the race in Massachusetts ! If Jane gets on board we have a spokesperson !!!
A show of power is what the progressive movement needs to make waves and the symbolic value of Kennedy’s seat popular discontent plus the democratic candidate trailing slightly are all made to order .
This is a one time opportunity !
Demand the progressive caucus kill the bill NOW or we will kill democratic chances for retaking Kennedy’s vacant seat through posting on the entire blogosphere, letters to the editor in all 50 states explaining our case and soliciting contributions for the opposition candidate . We have the next 4 1/2 days to make good on the threat !
Thanks for your detailed analysis of this development. Unfortunately, nothing will stop Big Insurance & Pharma’s turn at Rahm’s limitless bailout trough.
The health bill will probably fail if the special election goes south fro the Dem’s in Mass. Offering an ultimatum to the house, before Tuesday would be a threat we could actually deliver on of incredible proportion !!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/15/a-brown-win-could-kill-he_n_424910.html
Did I miss any updates on the Walker vs. Silver debate?
Short of a national strike this would be the most visble possible shot across the bow of the status quo immaginable !!!
Go Scott Brown !!!
Do you where your pants on the ground?
Which will likely end up as Lucy, Charlei Brown and the Football, with the added bonus of turning America against organized labor once and for all. sigh . . .
Behind closed doors? Not at all. I’m watching every word of the negotiations on cspan4, until 2 in the morning.
Whats needed is a high profile spokes person, one or more . Then all the progressive discontent can be focused and brought to bear after an ultimatum is delivered.
We can either throw our weight one way or the other , for or against the democratic candidate.
???
Or we can take a less pro active approach and wait till the primaries ?
Well, after listening to General Larry Platt, it just occurred to me that it is likely you do.
Why couldn’t the tax be progressive?
It goes from zero to 40% and stays there, correct?
Nothing is going to change if we don’t think outside the box! This opportunity is a one time offer with staggering symbolic potential !
We already have a weapon ,the democrats provided it , we just need to remove it from between our shoulder blades and threaten to use it !
Let Scott Brown be the shot across the Democrats bow.
Forget Olympia Snowe and pass Medicare for all in reconciliation.
“Exchanges have so far failed to reduce the growth rate of health insurance”
WTF? The cost of insurance is directly proportional the Medical Providers costs + Profit + Adminstrative costs.
Without controlling Medical Providers’ costs no mechanism to being costs down, Medical Insurance is irrelevant. Or am I misunderstand your clause?
Did you Yves’ post today?
Obama’s “Get Tough on Banks” Again Tries to Play the Public for Fools
We need Jane as a spokesperson or there is no focal point to rally around.
President Barack Obama dealt the cards in the White House healthcare poker game. Unable to win removal of the “Cadillac Tax” on their member’s healthcare benefits, the unions’ only chance to stay in the game was to disgard a card and draw another one—the time card.
Without cost controls this bill and any other are useless and pointless. It will be more death and pain on main street.
Organized Labor’s Irony Deficiency
Nice EFCA you’ve got there AFl-CIO, be a shame if anything happened to it.
They’ll never get EFCA passed with this administration/congress. It will be even worse in January 2011.
Very little about the cost of a health care plan has to do with how generous the plan is. Price is most affected by the age and gender of the people being insured.
this is absolutely wrong. You should speak to an actuary on this. A plan is based on the age and gender but then goes up or down based on how “generous” it is.
Also dentists have nothing to do with it. It was a ‘throw in” to unions. Dental benefits/costs are capped as benefits are capped most often at $1500 or so unless there’s talk of treating dental care as “any other illness”.
Not sure what all the hand wringing is about. The Unions got the best deal they could for their membership, that’s their job. If people want to have Unions negotiate on their behalf, they should join one.
A plan is based on the age and gender but then goes up or down based on how “generous” it is.
Listen-up. In a small business where the employee pool is small, the rates for insurance plans are based on the age and gender of the employees being covered. In my case, all are female and in mid 50′s to early 60′s. The least expensive, least comprehensive, most costly for out-of-pocket and co-pays premium far exceeds the threshold, and under the proposal, is a ‘cadillac plan.’ This scenario is very typical in female-oriented small businesses such as child care, social work, etc. where there is little turnover (thus, older employees).
i’m listening.
you didn’t read what i said. Current plans’ rates are loosely based on age and gender but how generous it is absolutely affects the price and many times substantially. Go ask your HR dept to ask what it would cost to go from what I can only assume by the tone in your post is a crappy plan to a true cadillac benefit plan. You’d be amazed.
If what you say is true, then it would definitely give people an incentive to join unions and may reverse the slide in membership.
I don’t understand why the Democrats don’t put windfall taxes on ALL bonuses and oil company profits. That’s a sure thing. No one with half a brain in their head would be against that. It would make the Repugs appear as corporate kiss-assy as they are and would pay for a whole lot of things. I just can’t understand why this party is so stupid.
The entire idea of excise taxes on health benefits is dumb. It doesn’t incentivize the insurer to keep prices low. It incentivizes them to keep raising them because they receive absolutely no punishment for raising prices above the cap. If you put in there that if an insurance company offers plans above $24,000 that their bonuses and profits would be taxed at a higher rate, that at least would incentivize them to try and make the best low cost plans as possible. Now, we just get an obligation to pay them whatever they charge and to beg them to give us a cheaper plan with crappier benefits. So much change and hope, I don’t think I can stand it.
Huge issue, too.
Heck of a piece Jon Walker . . .
Yet more subterfuge to wad thru and worry about . . . and likely, what you premise, is likely there.
We’ll see . . . . damn I hope they kill this bill.
Are you out of !!!!!!!!!’s yet?
What he meant and said is “You look nice today.”
Rly.
Dammit, there IS no reconciliation!!!
The Dem’s are bought out, as are the Pubs, as is the WH.
NONE of them are gonna risk losing the money flowing to them from the corps to do a right thing that will be NOT what what the corporations want . . . and they ALL get the money, no matter who is in the WH, or who’s the majority in Congress . . . . . they ALL get the money, any way it comes down party wise!!!!
Geebuz . . . . *facepalm*
Yer killin me, private insurers are 30% of the cost of medical care provision, due to their admin costs to fund denials, and due to their bonus programs.
Yer killin me.
The entire idea of excise taxes on health benefits is dumb. It doesn’t incentivize the insurer to keep prices low. It incentivizes them to keep raising them because they receive absolutely no punishment for raising prices above the cap. If you put in there that if an insurance company offers plans above $24,000 that their bonuses and profits would be taxed at a higher rate, that at least would incentivize them to try and make the best low cost plans as possible. Now, we just get an obligation to pay them whatever they charge and to beg them to give us a cheaper plan with crappier benefits. So much change and hope, I don’t think I can stand it.
REALLY??
do you really think insurers want to raise prices past the point of affordability so people stop buying their product and go on the gov’t dime? that’s idiotic. That’s like saying grocery stores want to raise food prices above what people can afford so the government has to provide food for all. think it through again. they want to raise prices just up to the point of affordability i would think if they actually had control over it.
is this 30% crap gonna die when MLR’s are at 15-20% with the new reform plans??? you do know many states already have MLR’s right? i live in nj and we have a 20% MLR and in 2008 (i researched during the summer) that actually the insurers had an mlr of 85% while BCBS had an MLR of 88.2%. you know maybe its the doctors too before you give them a complete pass.
I am the ‘HR Dept.’ I have been the one researching, costing and selecting benefit packages for the business for 11 years. Out of the few health insurance companies that offer a plan for a small business with so few employees, we have enrolled in the least expensive (and crappy) plan available, which is rated by age, gender and health history – and substantially exceeds the threshold for the exise tax. There is no way for us to avoid it via employer-sponsored coverage. The only alternative is for the business to drop the benefit and leave us to find individual coverage in the marketplace at our own expense. This is unfair, discriminatory, and immoral, in light of the goals of ‘health care reform.’
Bottom line is this: The excise tax is based on the cost of the plan, not the value of the benefits. On behalf of those of us middle-class, working people, whose premiums are sky-high and beyond our control, that’s a despicable methodology for recovering revenue to ensure deficit-neutral health insurance legislation.
Sure the cost goes up and down depending on the benefits of the plan, but when the premiums for older people are three times the cost for younger ones, you can easily wind up in a situation where nearly any plan exceeds the threshold for the excise tax. There’s little point in giving people insurance with 50% copayments (which exists here in NJ)–no one can afford to use it in case of serious illness. There are huge disparities in the costs of medical care, and therefore insurance, depending on where you live. Taxing a plan based on its costs rather than the generosity of the coverage is absurd.
NJ has what is called “MOOP” or maximum out of pocket. for most every plan its capped at $5,000 for singles $10,000 for families but most are less than that. Most people believe costs or 50% goes on forever erroneously.
I’m the HR in my small company too (owner as well) what state are you in? Look into HSA’s. I got one in NJ here and it works for us. I saved $500 a month in premium and in the first year I put the full deductible into my employee’s and my HSA account and then the following year i put very little into it because we weren’t using it. If you do use it well then you need to put more in but people need to realize that there’s no magic math to insurance. 1 + 1 still equals 2. Even if you’re using the benefits there are caps in cost (as i said above). Again the problem relates to the cost of care not to the cost of premium. One begets another. Once MLR’s are in place nationwide and insurers can’t be more be more efficent it one state (with an MLR) and less in ones that don’t we’ll still have cost issues because of what docs make and what care costs.
Thanks for further arguing my points, which apparently have widespread reprecussions.
Taxing a plan based on its costs rather than the generosity of the coverage is absurd.
‘Absurd’ doesn’t quite cover it; ‘immoral,’ ‘outrageous,’ and hopefully, ‘unconstitutional’ may be more precise.
The cost of insurance is directly proportional the Medical Providers costs + Profit + Adminstrative costs.”
True – and profits are up 400% despite Management salaries at the top being up 3 to 10 times a decade ago -
Medical Providers costs” in a rational world would be job one and we’d discuss price control and gadget purchase control – but this is not a rational world and middleman rake off is the problem with every 1% added meaning someone is taking $25 billion out of the system for no improvement in health outcomes.
In North Carolina. In the past 5 years, as employees have aged into higher brackets (base costs are determined by gender + 50- 54, 55-59, 60-64, etc), the premiums have increased by 34% while we have stepped-down each year in our plan. Every December, at our enrollment date, we competitively price all options via an independent agent. The plan with the least benefits and lowest cost (includes vision but not dental) is currently about $900/mo for me; for older staff, in higher brackets, it is more.
The bottom-line is that the solution to high health insurance costs and/or to national health care reform is NOT to impose a tax, based on the cost of the premiums – especially while the tax roll-back for the upper 1% of earners continues to be inequitable. You are I are parsing a fundamentally unjust and ineffective solution.
do you really think insurers want to raise prices past the point of affordability” – well – yes – because they have told the actuaries that the price must give 20% returns on equity (after all that requires only a “small” percentage of premium as there is little equity invested) plus cover next years planed CEO bonus and senior management salaries plus the lawyers in “claims” (denial) want more money – and the CEO told the actuaries that insurance is a must have – even more so post mandate – so affordability is not a concern – the Federal Gov will raise the subsidy under health reform each year so as to keep sales coming in.
Current plans’ rates are loosely based on age and gender” – LOL – where do you price plans?
It is not “loosely” based – it is tightly based. But claim cost are only 70% of the premium (85% on large group) – and it is admin and rip off salaries for CEO and friends plus divs plus cost of denying claims after policy said they were covered (the we can discover a “fraud” lawyers in Claims payment – a 5% of premium cost all by themselves) that are killing us.
As to better plans – of course they cost more – but a extremely good plan for a 25 year old male is well under the near $9000 you must pass before even a dollar is subject to a excise tax. And an average plan is about $9000 for an age 55 person The idea is to push us into high deductible plans where claims are even a smaller percentage of premium and the rip-offs can get larger – and more easily taken. Anyone for Health Savings Accounts ONLY!? – we go there and the 3 years earlier that we die now compared to the rest of the world will become decades as folks run out of money and/or “chose” not to get into the health care system so as to “save” money for the “big one”.
Health Savings accounts stop usage – either by running out of money, or by trying to “save” money for the coming “big one”. There is a cost to this wonder you do not mention – death.
We now die 3 years earlier than in other industrialized nations – we go HSC and that will become dying a decade earlier than other folks – as was said on the House floor – the GOP/insurance company health care reform is “DIE EARLIER”
Minimum claims loss ratios are indeed around 85% for large group (actually there are no MLRs for group – but competition has settled in at 85%). But I filed those forms and I produced the data – I am a retired actuary – and the reserves you set up can get you past the current year just about every time (when the reserves run off into earnings we claim, in some states, that the lawyers expense fighting claims is part of the claim paid so that the earnings are not really there
NY (and Mass) were strict – the others not so much – I never had a problem with NJ. I am retired – and long before that had non-health ins duties – so I may be a bit out of date – but I do not believe so.
The penalty for missing the loss ratio is not much – not much that helps the employee. On the group side we should at some point discuss “experience rating” (pretend fairness for over charges that is sold to company management), but I have already killed too much of the day.
I also live in NJ and have been paying for my own health insurance for 12 years. I have an HMO with Aetna which is one of the lowest priced plans you can get as an older individual, and to go under $1,000 a month in premiums, you have to go to a plan with a $2,500 deductible and 50% co-pays. You can check the premiums on the Department of Banking and Insurance website. I’m still on an HMO with no coinsurance but I’m paying a very high premium. There’s no MOOP with either plan because there’s not much out of pocket. Maybe the group insurance plans have MOOPs, I don’t know. The individual plans that are not HMOs are extremely high–well over $2,000 for an individual.
Let me clarify my last post: there little out of pocket because it’s all in the extremely high premium cost of the HMO, but the HMO is still the lowest cost plan.
OK, so I would imagine that eliminating the excise tax from dental and vision would at least reduce the tax (both in amount and chance of, by decreasing total value of coverage), but I agree that it will hit middle class before we know it nonetheless – it’s just a BAD idea.
I think you might be onto something there about the unions taking over their own insurance plans. Remember when the auto loans were being proposed? Most may not have realized then (and/or have forgotten by now) that the auto union (UAW) had ALREADY made an agreement to cover their own health insurance plans, long before the loans had even been discussed. This made the constant INANE argument about the cost of health care per car make me want to pull my hair out! Obviously it was just an excuse to further smear and diminish the power of unions (the working-people’s voice). The UAW had foreseen the troubles ahead for their industry, and had already agreed to take on this cost (in a year or two) in order to avoid job losses.
Also, notice how the mandate is for individuals, not for employers really. As it is, the reform outlines a guide for employers’ provisions, like what system they can use to acquire insurance according to size of the company, and they have an option to pay into the system which helps pay for their employees instead, etc… but employers are not truly required or mandated to provide insurance to employees – they just have to contribute in one way or another.
And BOOOOOO for the exchange! Especially the state version, how icky. Surely this is exactly what you are saying it is; an extra link = more waste – no doubt about it! I’m quite sure it suits the insurers just fine too, as it serves as another loophole for more profits to slip into their pockets for “administrative” costs. Greedy bastards.