Thanks Jane!

That’s it, drive a stake through its heart.

Solidarity Forever!

Shorter Unions: “We can get our toenails clipped! Sorry you didn’t get your open heart surgery.”

I’ve been ranting about a petition for a ballot initiative to revoke some corporate charters for a while now. Maybe that’s the way to deal with this issue as well. California had no trouble getting more than enough signatures to put marijuana legalization on the ballot. Like a grassroots form of direct democracy. If the politicians and judges refuse to act on behalf of the citizenry, it may be the only way to get anything done. Of course we’ll have to wrench ownership of the voting machines from whatever Diebold is calling itself these days.

oh man, ain’t that the truth.

This sounds like good news.

So at the end of this responsibility, burden and blame reshuffling process will we find that the efficacy & equity components of health care in the USA remain effectively unchanged from the status quo circa 2008?

Or will there be a minor skew in favor of those who sculpted the legislative pandemonium in the first place.

No question mark needed there.

in what way?

So with all the special deals required to get to this abomination…can we just kill the bill now. This is an awful, awful bill. The dems will pay dearly if they pass the senate version of this.

Ha fucking ha. What did you expect, “we’ll all go down together”?

A large number of middle class folks that were going to be impacted by this excise tax are now excluded.

Isn’t solidarity what unions depend on? Isn’t advocating solidarity when it helps you and then cutting your own side deal what they call scabbing?

I am a highly educated, salaried professional classified as management (even though I don’t get to manage much beyond myself). Unions have never provided me with any sort of direct benefit, and their strikes have caused me some inconvenience over the years. Yet I have always supported the union movement and causes like EFCA. My Blue Doggish Democratic governer’s opposition to union labor was the main reason why I opposed giving him a second term.

Maybe that changes now that “every man for himself” is the union watchword.

If the unions are prepared to sacrifice my employer-provided health insurance in order to protect theirs, why shouldn’t I demand that my congressional delegation oppose special treatment for union insurance benefits? Why shouldn’t I now oppose EFCA and demand more rather than less free trade? My employers oppose unions and I can get better prices at a neighborhood Walmart than I can by driving all the way to Costco. In fact, if everyone but me is now taking the Blue Dog position and agreeing to “what is possible” and “realistic” (i.e. expedient), why shouldn’t I just vote Republican?

Oh I see what you mean,
But what about the rest of us? My reaction is that this is the unions’ “we’ll get ours, too bad about the rest of you.” Which, imo, won’t endear unions to the rest of the middle class.

Health care reform should be fair and just for all Americans. Kill the bill!

they will indeed!

I just got an email from President Bombaclot begging money for Haiti. He could use that $33 billion he wants to use for inflicting similar damage on the people of Afganistan and Iraq.

So far, the Democratic “leadership” has been able to buy off everyone it needs to, that much is clear. It bought off Bernie Sanders with Medicaid funding for his state (and Bill Nelson, too, but he’s not a progressive). They presumably bought off any other individual Senators who had enough chutzpah to declare they weren’t satisfied.

Now they’ve bought off the unions. Big surprise. I won’t be sorry when the asshats who accepted this deal are voted out by their memberships.

you and Rush

On his radio program Wednesday morning, Rush said that President Barack Obama and company would use Haiti to get closer to the “light-skinned and dark-skinned black [communities] in this country” while adding that the U.S. has “already donated to Haiti. It’s called the U.S. income tax.”

I read this yesterday via alternet which also seems to fit in what the insurers might have in mind for another “age and sex discrimination” plan.

10 Pounds Overweight? Got High Cholesterol? It Could Cost You Big Unless the Dems Fix the Health Care Bill
By Adele M. Stan, AlterNet. Posted January 12, 2010.

A little-discussed provision of the Senate bill allows insurers to penalize subscribers by hundreds — and even thousands — of dollars for not meeting certain “wellness targets.”

10 pounds overweight got high cholesterol it could cost you big

Not good.

The sad truth is, the Dems still use protection and will give you a kiss after. If that isn’t enough, do what I did, vote Green. May not get what you want , you’ll feel better though.

Well, just how many middle class folks, outside of union job holders, have health care insurance that exceeds $23K for a family or $8.5K for an individual?
It can’t be many.

We don’t have true unions in this country. They are trade unions and trade unions have always opposed solidarity, in favor of the limited interests of membership. The idea of solidarity came from the industrial unions like the wobblies, and the afl before it sold out and united with the cio. Read about sellouts like Sam Gompers.

I don’t know, but you may have a point there.

The AFL-CIO has always “played ball” with the “I’ve got mine, Jack” Bilderberg agenda.

The only problem is years ago the Nafta Bilderbergers shipped all the manufacturing jobs that once made unions actually relevant overseas. Now they are reduced to “negociating” for scraps with the likes of the Rahm Emanuel Democrats.

They can eat toe nails.

AFL-CIO is denying this:

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0110/Unions_strike_tentative_deal_on_Cadillac_tax.html?showall

Does FDL have a more updated source?

That’s rich, me and the Oxymoron agree on something. First time for everything.

And let me amend my previous reply, there are companies that stay non-union by essentially keeping up with the unions’ wages and benefits. Those employees would be losers.

i want health care reform that does not favor anyone over the any other.

O/T: BTW, something on this page (also FP) is blowing through a css boundary or something. The column positioning is “broken”. Maybe an embedded video clip?

(both Firefox 3.5.x and Opera 10.x)

To add fuel to this particular fire, read the NYT Magazine preview about Senator Harry “Hit me again! Reid’s leadership skills [sic].

As to this post, Jane had it nailed:

…Lieberman was not the only senator in the Democratic caucus complicating Reid’s life. Ben Nelson of Nebraska was opposing using government money to pay for coverage of abortions. Maria Cantwell of Washington was balking as well; she had been drawing Reid into long, late-night telephone conversations as she pressed to make sure that longshoremen were added to the list of unions exempted from a new tax on costly health care plans…

I am as convinced as a person can be about the fundamental corruption and cynicism that is producing this health care “reform” legislation, and I am as appalled by the Democrats as anyone ever needs to be in order to know that I needn’t vote for one, donate to one, or speak kindly of one, ever again, without some sort of massive catharsis and redemption visible in that lamentable faction’s leadership.

The only real question in my mind is the question of what we, the little people, can do to punish the reprobates who produced a massive sellout to the health insurance and pharmaceutical cartels less than a year after being swept into office with a broad public mandate to start a public alternative to sleazy, unaccountable, horrendously inefficient corporate overlords and the patent monopolies of the pharmaceutical robber barons.

Obama is directly breaking his promises on multiple levels. Like with the excise tax it is precisely designed so that you won’t be able to keep your plan with that being described as bug rather than a feature. Remember when Obama said this?: “If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan” All these various carve-outs just look like politics at its worst while also being bad policy. You can’t just punish people because they don’t belong to a union – either the underlying policy is good for the middle class or it isn’t. This union carve-out seems like a tacit admission that the excise tax does indeed hurt the middle class and that the claims of pay raises are a bunch of hooey.

Hell yes he could!

Jane, please write more about this. I don’t really understand it all very well.

Then there’s no reason for a carve-out based on union membership. If there’s an insignificant number of non-union middle class affected by this, then there’s no point in making such a specific carve-out.

I love clear thinkers *noted through fogged out brain*

And this is why many people dont like unions, instead of fighting for all of the middle class they will accept a deal that exempts their members from this dreadful bill at the expense of the rest of us. This carve out deal is incredibly short sighted by the union leadership who forget that while it may not affect their members it will affect people who may be close to them. Letting Obama off the hook with a deal like this bcz they think he is going to give them EFCA is foolish, they should know by now that he is going to screw them on EFCA as soon as he can.

Internet Explorer too, at 29. Reply not working for me either,

And I say this as someone who has been voting Democrat since circa 1990, and who has participated in primary caucuses since before 2000, always caucusing for a liberal Democrat. And, yes, I caucused for Obama. What a fucking sucker I was. “Change” I can believe my ass!

Formatting and everything working fine over at ew’s house.

I can see the republican adds now, Obama promised not to raise your taxes if you make less than $250k a year – he didnt say you had to belong to a union for that promise to include you. By colluding with Obama the unions will lose credibility with the same middle class they are supposed to be fighting for.

I should do a general “union” post, and have been thinking about it. Will do.

California got the initiative when it was being run much like DC is being run now. It can be abused and used to sucker those who don’t pay attention so it has its problems, but it sure is nice to know that if you are in a situation, say, where the vast majority wants a public option and to tax the rich instead of the middle class, you can get it done even if the legislators are all bought and paid for. I think it would be the only way to get campaign finance reform unless people come together in an unbreakable block to vote out anyone who doesn’t vote for campaign finance reform. But it sure would be easier to have a good law written up and then push for it to be passed by direct votes on a referendum.

As someone who was raised on the Unions Are Evil and Ruining Our Country with their Selfishness meme, I hope someone points out what was in that comment about Republican ads. We all get screwed because Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on the middle class and the unions are as bad as Ben Nelson for getting great treatment for their own by being bullying assholes while selling the rest of us out. The unions are finally getting beyond the damage of the corrupt years and the Reaganomics years and now they are being penny wise and pound foolish.

He’ll give them EFCA like Pelosi gave Weiner a vote on single payer. How stupid are these people? When people have been proven to lie in the exact same circumstances without even the decency to pretend they care, only an idiot would trust them.

All is well now.

Yep. I have no idea what these guys are smoking, but there’s a better chance of building a snowman in hell than there is of EFCA passing.

In small businesses – like where I’m employed – the pool is so small that the rates are strictly based on the health and age of covered employees. In my case, the cheapest plan available far exceeds the ‘cadillac tax’ threshold, because the current employees are female and old (54-61). The benefits are few; co-pays and out-of-pocket expenses are high; we have no other employer-based options. We’ve been sacrificing salary increases in order to retain the benefit, as meager as it is. So, the union cave did us, and millions of others, no favor. The larger point is that they behaved as greedily and immorally as those Senators we chastized. They were bought-off to their benefit, but to the detriment of Americans.

Whew. Relief is just a refresh away,

Yeah, I forgot about campaign finance reform. Ballot initiative is the only way we’ll ever get that.

Thanks for telling us your experience.

But besides all the people like you who will be caught (and over at ew’s we’re just observing that civil rights are supposed to be for everyone, but I digress since medical care is not a civil or human right in this country), but it’s the process that so stinks. Carving out groups, setting them against each other, to the final end of a bill that will benefit corps not people.

Same is true for my sister who works at pediatric office (yes, the same one I used to be office manager of for those that recall).

But it’s a small pool, and when her daughter (my niece) was diagnosed with both diabetes and cancer, the group took a BIG hit and now their premiums are above the threshold as well.

But hey, we’re not supposed to point out the negative, right? No matter that the entire bill is actually worse than doing nothing, we’re still supposed to support it as a “stepping stone” to better reform.

Anybody believing this is a first step toward’s better reform is either smoking something really good or knowingly lying. Because if you think the insurance and PhRMA cartels were too tough to beat in this round of reform with 60 D Senators, a huge D majority in the House, and a D President, just wait until they’re mandated millions and millions of new customers and billions and billions more money. Nope, this bill effectively drives a stake through real reform once and for all. And all who support it OWN it. Hope they’re here 10 years from now when we’re still fighting for health care reform.

I think there are other aspects of the plan that might relieve this situation.

My point was that this is good news in that the largest group of middle class folks that were going to get hit with this excise tax are now exempt.

I am not defending the damn excise tax. I like the House financing plan better.

And btw, I’m too lazy (and incompetent) to find it, but I recall someone (Jon Walker or David Dayan I think) pointing out that the bill also leaves the “fraud loophole” in the regulation prohibiting insurance companies from refusing to cover pre-existing conditions.

That effectively makes it pretty much like it is now. That’s the excuse the insurance companies use now to not pay. They’ve said things like “You failed to report that you had acne on your application form” IIRC. And other such crap. If they can find one little thing you forgot to disclose on your application then they can call it fraud. Which is basically what they do today.

So, how’s this “great” reform sounding now??? Cause ending pre-existing conditions was/is one of the things they’re always pointing out in the defense of this bill. I admit though that I might be misremembering reading that here, in which case I’m wrong about it basically being the same.

All I could think of was to write my Congress-person (Louise Slaughter) and respectfully request that she vote against the monstrosity which this legislation has become. Kill the bill. It’s very much worse than nothing at this point, and they’re STILL not done hacking it to bits. I just got done emailing her office.

About health care legislation, Jonathan Alter writes in the new edition of Newsweek:

‘…But instead of getting all morose, why don’t Democrats use 2010 to build on their 2009 accomplishments? You didn’t hear much about them because the Democratic base has turned into a bunch of pouty purists who can’t take yes for an answer. Instead of being thrilled about the most important piece of social legislation in a generation, Democrats are, once again, perusing their selection of fine whines.

It’s time for them to lift their chins and face the world as it is, not as Daily Kos told them it was supposed to be. Then sour can turn sweet this year on jobs, financial regulation, immigration reform, climate change—and the rest of the Democratic agenda.’

I’m horrified by that (prevailing) sentiment. Please keep up the important work on this site.

Another false promise: “I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.”

EFCA will never see the light of day.

Please outline them if you can. I’ve been following pretty closely and haven’t read anything to convince me that the entire plan and process isn’t wrong-headed, devastating to the middle class, and clearly counterproductive to anything helpful to the economy specifically, and to the welfare of working Americans overall.

What better way to further demonize the unions than to set them up with this carve out while others get stuck with the tax. On the other side of the coin not a bad incentive to organize one’s workplace under the auspices of an exempted union.

If this is so then the unions will get EFCA… but as they are led away to their reward we, the unprivileged, might at least get to hear the distant, muffled screams about an “Employee Forced Choice Act” as the corporates take their turns with same-said unions without lube.

Why go after unions? They are simply shielding themselves reflexively from this assault of a bill. I can’t blame the unions because they built their houses out of bricks while most of the “middle class” would have nothing to do with rank and file folks in the pursier days of Greenspan.

Here’s an idea to those folks left out in the rain: organize and fight to organize. And never…ever…take the massive benefits you’ve reaped from unionism for granted like you did for the last three decades.

Yeah, that shit does get old. And that person is the one that’s not facing “reality” because the American people mostly support real reform, in fact single payer almost always polls majority. It’s the pols in Washington who aren’t facing reality when they say real reform doesn’t have the support it needs. It doesn’t have the support of the corporations and the politicians those corporations have bought, but the “reality” is that the people demand more than this, and that’s not being some sort of “purist” or whatever the hell he said.

Asshole. (Him, not you)

Meddling with the primal forces of Nature

Howard Beale could have saved himself alot of grief if only remembered to ask:

Am I a man who dreamt of being a butterfly, or am I a butterfly dreaming that I am a man?” — Chuang Tzu

oh yeah.

yes! thanks for that one!

Amen. I’m not quite Medicare eligible yet, and working for a small firm made up of older people. My yearly rate would make me look like a ‘Cadillac’…..but with all the co-pays and limits, I feel like a ‘Yugo.’ I am very disappointed in the unions and the other scammers. Screw them.

‘Screw them.’

I wish I knew how…

Well, I guess we don’t even have to do it ourselves……the guvmt will fix them, twist them, make them cry. And the unions will be on their own, because they sold the rest of us out. Ah, well…..seems to be Rahm’s way: set up the serfs to fight each other. How could we possibly pester the ruling class while we are so busy scrambling to keep a roof over our heads, a few root vegetables in the cook pot.

A minor point: Unsubscribe to the Obama email list. And to the lists of the Democratic Party in all its forms. This will do wonders for your mental health.

BTW, how long ago was this video made? Seems to me we were just talking about all this a couple of months ago.

that was the one and ONLY correct response to this mess!

“we’re still supposed to support it as a ‘stepping stone’ to better reform.”

They want us to be lemmings who mindlessly take a step off a cliff into the sea.

actually yes it is, it is many

any good plan, ie not a high deductible high coins% is going to exceed that number

my plan does, it is a PPO plan with copays for Office visits, I will be taxed and taxed again. I am in the middle class Obama promised not to hammer.

eliminating the employer mandate and laying on these taxes pushes DOWN our level of care, that is not the sane, ‘fair’ way to lower costs. it gives people coverage they cannot use. it is like the catastrophic medicare debacle IMO

BTW like 12% of the country is in unions 88% are not.

….and hiding from the IRS for non-payment of exise taxes….

Been there, done that!

I wonder if Alter felt that way about Bush’s Social Security reform. If not, then he shouldn’t go on an ad hominem rant about people who actually want good reform instead of just passing a bill labeled “reform.”

Carving out groups, setting them against each other, to the final end of a bill that will benefit corps not people.

This is the essence of Rahm Emanuel and his tactics.

Good idea. I haven’t had anything to say to him for months. The last thing I told him was “Mr. Obama, tear down this empire.” (Stole that line from Lawrence Vance)

Jesse’s Café Américain: There Are Now More Government Employees …Jan 6, 2010 … There Are Now More Government Employees than Goods-Producing Workers in the US … Category: economic imbalances, manufacturing sector …
jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/…/more-government-employees-than-goods.html – Cached

What percentage of you ladies and gentlemen here would fight to organize your workplace or join a union if one were chartered? By the sound of it here, unions are some country club, exclusive and plutocratic…. I still don’t fathom the union-hatred here.

What would you have them do: let their members not get the carve outs? simply get steam-rolled so they could say, “Hey, at least we got steamrolled together with all those other folks who’d never deign to have anything to do with us in the middle of a bubble?”

Gotta love how the unions preach solidarity, then turn around and sacrifice the middle class.

When they want their victim pool to honor their picket lines, turn about is fair play.

The unions who sold us out want help, support, taxpayer-funded benefit increases?

Great: they can go beg from AETNA.

Until / unless their rank-and-file throw out the union leaders who sacrfice the rest of us, they and their leaders can go eat solidarity. And go starve.

Err… sorry, you’re second try fared no better than your first one.

You’re blaming {the set of everyone but unions, oligarchs, corporate footstools and the Administration pawns thereof} for a union sellout to the same people that union leaders swore they would not sell out to?

The Labor bosses work for their members. Not you. They are elected by their members. Do you expect them to pass up a win for their members in support of non members? Do you then expect them to be re-elected?

The Reply function has gone wonky on me. My comment @ #82 was in reply to andreww @ #80

No one honors picket lines now, so it’s not like union members would notice. Again, it’s the grad school-educated, etsy store-purveying, gong-spa-going, $2500 apple computer-owning middle class that would no sooner make eye-contact with the loud and cheeky IBEW guy that complain. Go patronize Target and Whole Foods.

I actually know a little about trade unions in America vs. labor unions overseas. I just don’t think that it is the point. In either case, the union movement depends on coallitions and on acting in concert.

They aren’t perfect by any means. When I was young, really, really poor, and scrounging for carpentry and general-labor, I can remember being frozen out because I did not have a relative who was already in the union. I’m also old enough to remember the Jablonski murders.

But, in this country, with all of their limitations, unions have more or less served the common good. My college-age daughter works a coffee shop in a small independent grocery in New York City. In a weak union state like the one where I live, that’s a bare minimum wage job. In New York City, it includes health insurance and a pension plan. Why? Because most grocery workers are unionized, so my daughter’s non-union employer has to compete for employees against employers who provide union benefits.

This is why any sellout on healthcare at this stage is so distressing to me and, I suspect, so likely to be fatal to an already unpopular, flagging union movement. To survive, the unions need EFCA. To get it, they need to call in favors from workers who benefit from union advocacy even if they are not members. Cutting their own deal on the excise tax will brand their health plans as the real Cadillacs, dooming them in the long run. Worse, such a deal will doom popular support for EFCA.

A sell-out would be to throw their weight behind a crap bill. They’re simply playing defense. Now go organize.

sndreww@61: I have to agree with you. The unions don’t owe anyone on the outside anything. I’m tilting more and more against this bill, myself, but not blaming the unions for just looking out for their members. It’s their innate priority.

It’s a s*** bill. But when someone runs at me with a hammer, I’m throwing up my hands.

Frustrating and disappointing. Just another example of the void of true leadership on our side of the political spectrum. The corporatists are chopping the left to pieces.

workingclass

The Labor bosses work for their members. Not you.

Ah… it’s the Southern Strategy reincarnate. And guess who’s blind to the oncoming train this time?…

Again, you don’t have to turn on the unions. They didn’t do this to you.

“Solidarity” refers to the power of the working class acting in unison and pooling their resources in adversity. Solidarity is the power of the working class to defend its interests against the ruling class. The middle class (that’s you) is free to choose sides or remain neutral.

Do you think it was OK for Nelson to hijack the bill until he was bribed with goodies for his home state?

In case you haven’t noticed when you give in to the corporates on a crap bill… or on anything else… you don’t get further input. In fact you will have endorsed the bill.

If the unions go this route they will have issued a de facto endorsement of the crap bill and will be pinned on that point.

So as a matter of practical politics they will have capitulated to the corporates and endorsed a crap bill… and all the cries of “We didn’t mean it!” will have exactly zero effect.

And then it will be the unions… and the Employee Forced Choice Act. And that term is not hyperbole. That’s how they operate.

You’ll get EFCA… and the corporates will gleefully take turns with you and your legislation.

It’s a s***storm. The realpolitik is they can survive for another few years or die tomorrow with a bunch of people who have, for the most part, nothing but disdain for unions. Either way they’re f***ed. This bill is coming down the chute with or without unions.

Unless–unless–more organize. The alternative is to remain diffuse, not organize, and grouse about getting reamed while typing on a fairly expensive laptop.

And who the heck mistakes blog commenters as representatives of the “middle-class”?

I will have to change into my formal pajamas and challenge any such dolts to a duel with loaded water pistols.

More seriously: Please note that I’ve qualified every statement regarding the unions and their supposed capitulation.

“If they’ve done this…”

Don’t take out your anger at the current situation the unions are in on those of us who merely criticize the unions for supposedly helping set up a castastrophe.

But if they do this they will deserve the criticisms… and their eventual fate.

The union members won’t deserve it but it’ll be much too late by the time they can take any action to try and correct the mistakes.

Ah… I suspected as much but thanks for the confirmation.

The bill’s “inevitability” and all that.

Hint: Teamster blood runs in the family.

So are you claiming that many union members aren’t middle class?

The point is you don’t hear Richard Trumka blaming the blogging left for their ills. Jane Hamsher unleashed the dogs, not the AFL-CIO.

I’ve heard my whole life folks who have greatly benefitted from union presence in shops in their communities berate unions members, scoff at buy American bumper stickers, and generally lap up Reaganite anti-union screeds. Union members no longer fear the plagues that the middle class believes will be visited upon them for looking after their own. They’ve weathered them for 35 years.

While most of the middle class were intoxicated by the magic of the market, union members were amassing ammunition because they never lost sight of the fact that this is war–and it never ends.

Go Jane! And while you’re researching that post make sure you take a look at Randi Weingarten’s cave-in on test score-based merit pay for teachers. When I worked under Randi in NYC (she was the president of the local United Federation of Teachers before she became pres. of the national American Federation of Teachers) the membership was 100% opposed to merit pay based on test scores at any cost. Randi faced jail time as we prepared to strike to prevent Giuliani from forcing merit pay down our throats. We won that battle but I guess times have changed?

The tests are not designed to nor are they accurate enough to base someone’s livelihood upon and Randi knows that. She is just cheerleading Arne Duncan’s (and therefor Obama’s) conservative Chamber of Commerce/Business Roundtable education “reforms” that could’ve been photocopied out of conservative think tank’s playbook (think Heritage Foundation and Manhattan Institute).

I am still an active union shop steward. Let me tell you quite clearly that the union membership of the teacher’s unions is very unhappy with Obama, Duncan, and the “Race to the Top” grants. Our leadership may wish to enter the veal pen but we will knock them out of place quite quickly if they do.

And BTW, there has to be more to this: Randi is also on the board of the AFL-CIO, something that started in NYC. These union “leaders” are playing inside politics with the villagers and it stinks. The membership will not sit back and be silent if they are selling out members or selling out America’s middle class.

They’re about to get boned on EFCA, which ought to be more important. Probably won’t be, of course, since as you say, if the union membership is covered, they probably don’t give a shit about that either, come to think of it.

Just another example of short-sightedness that will doom them down the road. Stupidity has a cure, and they’ll encounter it eventually.

You should do a diary about this. That’s exactly what’s happening. Every time you see a “strong statement” coming out, it’s because the locals are pissed and putting pressure on them.

The best thing that could happen to the unions is to pick up their buildings and transport them out of DC. They are filled with people who haven’t been union members and they see their career paths in the think tanks and Hill offices that their friends occupy. So when they hear reassurances like “EFCA will pass this year, don’t worry,” they are inclined to believe it, and that dictates the culture in the headquarters.

People who live in St. Paul or Cincinatti easily recognize it as bullshit, and the tension between the two is coming to a head.

I too am an AFT steward. And I hate Obama’s and Duncan’s charter school paradise and will fight tooth and nail against it. But I’m sure as hell not going to call the AFL-CIO’s actions a sell-out in this instance.

“teachers tax” doesn’t work, I’d call it “loyal workers tax”. Workers who stay in one stop these days consider themselves loyal.

Jane your posts lately seem a bit like frame by frame analysis of a car wreck. Will we start to see post(s) mortem when all is said and done? Like, for example, did HCAN accomplish anything whatsoever?

I would go out and organize, but it’s hard to get the unemployed to strike.

EFCA? Forgetaboutit!

The union “leadership” sold out their members when they purged the unions of all the communists and socialists. The current leadership has no fight and even less ideology. If Harry Bridges were alive today he’d kick the shit out of Trumpka and all the limp dicked labor “leaders.”

My union experance after the owner of the co.I worked for turned his business over to his son I know for a fact that thay bribed union officals and job inspectors I would say the union officals will look out for there self intrest while selling there members on you better be glad I’m watching out for you.Unless the voters remove all the lawmakers the pot will boil then one day it will boil over.Are you ready.

Wonder if Trumka is wearing an Armani suit in the picture above. Dollars to donuts it’s not off the rack from Penny’s.

I have to say I’m with Andrew on this one. I think we are all disappointed that we seem unable to sink this bill. But our coalition with labor was always just an alliance of convenience. It always seemed to me that Labor standing up for the Public Option was just a gift. What do they care? Virtually all union members have health insurance.

When the Millionaire’s Club (Senate) came at them with the Cadillac tax, they expended political capital and warded it off, apparently. Progs can say they will payback unions by not supporting EFCA but unions know that Progs would not have lent much support and been mostly ineffective if they did. Most folks don’t have the foggiest idea what EFCA is.

Unions. They are a double-edged sword. I have pulled out my hair at frustration over them at times, but you gotta have ‘em.

While most of the middle class were intoxicated by the magic of the market, union members were amassing ammunition because they never lost sight of the fact that this is war–and it never ends.

This is war. And it never ends.

well Jane, my heart sank a little when I saw your headline, although you have done an excellent, consistent job of setting realistic expectations, always knew it was a possibility

“penny wise and pound foolish” – “scraps” – amen. which will only serve to weaken them further in the eyes of their membership – dispiriting. the demoralizing proper will commence when whatever grostesque of EFCA passes and they have to explain that ‘get’ – further weakening them to the point of begging the Dems for some cred in 2012 – jesus christ I must be way off, Rahm Emanuel is not that fucking smart

Well, I’ve never taken the time to actually venture to the board here – although I’ve enjoyed the website – but I feel the time is now. Where to start (I just left work – 11PM, and a bit tired)? For beginners, I think your Jihad (partially well founded I might add) is, well, getting the better of you. The bill will pass, and the AFL-CIO does not have the power to derail it. The President has, for better or worse (likely the latter), casted his lot in passing this rather poor health insurance bill. There is too much institutional power behind this, ranging from the White House to the various industry groups and the media. And the public option is not going to be included. Obama never had an interest in the so-called public option, so it was a dead arrival in the Senate, where he actively pushed against it.

All that said, the AFL-CIO is doing the rational thing: using leverage to win and protect what you can. Unlike the blogosphere, the labor movement cannot willfully toss the bill aside with righteous indignation. It will pass, and we will be forced to live with this legislation – whether you or Jon Walker wants to or not. Because this legislation is a reality, if the labor movement fought tooth and nail to derail it (which I dont think they can), they would actually be doing their members a disservice. No, I dont believe Obama cares about EFCA. Truthfully, from what I’ve seen first hand, he never did. But there are many issues across the legislative and regulatory board that matter to union members. If he makes a fruitlesss display on healthcare, he hurts as many as 11 million dues paying members for taking a losers stand. He has a membership he is responsive to, and he cannot behave in such a rash manner.

Further, I think your quick turn on Rich Trumka is indicative of a shallow understanding of political insurgency. If you interest is really to build something more than a place for shooting missives out (and funneling money to various democrats), it’s best to make friends with real allies – which Rich is, despite the weasly protestations of some on this board. Rich is not a “villager” or whatever epithet is popular with the blogs these days, and nor is someone who sees his “career path in a think tank.” When you were studying film, he was fighting Pittston; and before that working in the mines.

If you truly want to destroy neoliberalism, dont make everyone an enemy. At times the blogoshphere’s self indulgence gets a little much for its own good. But despite my disagreement with this, I actually love the blog. It’s one of the few that actually looks to mobilize action. Seems labor might be an ally after all.

It’s hours later,now, and I’m still not sure what the fuck you are talking about. I read that blue shit from Limbaugh that you referenced several times, and can make no sense of it. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying @16. Finally I saw a tape of it on KO, and it still makes no sense. When I comment here, it’s because I’m trying to find ways for us and our country to climb out of this fucking hole we’ve slid into. I’m not interested in squabbling or being attacked. I guess it’s my fault for clumsy wording, but I see that Seymour Friendly @33 understood what I meant. I”l try to speak more clearly in the future.

If you truly want to destroy neoliberalism, dont make everyone an enemy. At times the blogoshphere’s self indulgence gets a little much for its own good.

Ding, ding, ding–we have a winner! Well said, Manual.

I just got an email from President Bombaclot begging money for Haiti.

Own your words.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bumbaclot

Ignorance is no defense, especially with possibly hundreds of thousands of Haitians newly dead. Simply shameful bile.

The Michigan Education Association advised of the “problems” in Race To The Top push for education “reform”. They actually are standing up to Obama/ Duncan and Dem Gov. Granholm. Very proud of them. It takes guts to say no to a race and a money bribe pushed by a compulsive deadline in a state that they know is hurting badly due to political malfeasance that began with Engler. Granholm’s Dept of Ed can not be trusted to uphold rights.

This works hand in hand to gut unions along with the excise tax strategy. Dump the Democrats who are shadow boxing us. What is it that Obama really wants?

Ah… it’s all about “inevitability“… again and again and again.

“We’ve been told that we can’t win so we must capitulate.”

And these are supposed to be union members?

Welcome

I am responding to you as one who has all along, viewed this battle as being not just about HCR, but about how we fight and how we will fight in the future – personally, I am going to let my disappointment roll around for a few days before I make any real assessment, but would like to address a few of your points

Further, I think your quick turn on Rich Trumka is indicative of a shallow understanding of political insurgency

manual, manual, manual – you do realize you are addressing an operative who reached out to Grover Norquist and got burned at the stake by her own for her heresy, right ?? at a minimum, that move is indicative of someone who very well understands the very core of ‘insurgency’

and where is this “turn” ? anyone who’s been here awhile understands that Jane is all about principles over personalities – how is her keeping it real analysis above turning on anyone ? did or did not Labor accept toe nail clippings –

If he makes a fruitlesss display on healthcare, he hurts as many as 11 million dues paying members for taking a losers stand.

how is it a “losers stand” and what would have been so “fruitless” about using the power of 11 million voters/gotv boots on the ground and holding out for real reform ? who’s zoomin’ who here ?

fyi – I am 4th generation Labor – I understand the importance of delivering to membership, but just what are they delivering here – absolutely nothing they didn’t have when the whole magilla started.

we are clearly on the same side – and I will continue to work on how we could have done better at outreach and alignment – but that door swings both ways – dumping cash in to HCAN (though chock a block with passionate committed souls like our Jason) wasn’t enough, clearly, it’s not enough for any of us to put together stand alone entities, we gotta get better at true cohesion

If you truly want to destroy neoliberalism, dont make everyone an enemy

there’s a whole lotta of that going on in a lot of online places, including our comment threads – but commenter please, where is Jane making someone an enemy here ?

crap ! site and my computer are at odds and it is tough to keep talking with the box blinking on and off – this is to be ongoing discussion we all need to have and I look forward to more in the future

I’d like to know who the unexempted middle class is? the creative class? lower management at AT & T? I’m curious.

I appreciate the thoughtful response. I do agree that working with Grover Norquist indicates at least an understanding of insurgency, and I not among those calling for her burning at the stake. I do, however, take issue with your mis-characterization about “turning” on trumka. I get that Jane is “about principles over personality,” but my point was not to be nice to Trumka for personal reasons. I think Rich is quite principled (he’s been around and done a lot more than any single person at this site) and knows that he has to deliver numerous things for labor. Spitting on the President when the bill will pass would result (1) an excise tax and (2) a complete loss going forward. When you are responsible for actual peoples lives, rhetoric and purity have less significance. Further, Jane and the blogoshpere (which has very little organizational strength – if any) needs labor more than they need her. Calling people sell outs from the stroke of a keyboard does nobody any use.

cbl2, i know we (respectfully) disagree on some of this, but other readers may not, so i’ve just got to voice my take on a couple of things you wrote:

did or did not Labor accept toe nail clippings

we did too, when we pre-compromised. and i do want to note that not all of labor has compromised (pre- or otherwise) — an example is one of my favorite unions (although i’d love your take on them, as you know much more than i do about the various sub groups) is/was the CNA/NNOC (an AFL-CIO member) who have now merged to create NNU (i’m not sure what the new organizational structure is, but i don’t think i really understood the previous one either).

re: hcan

hcan has run a deceptive campaign from the start and even resorted to out right lying. imo they (not the membership, which i think was mostly well intentioned but not familiar with the policy issues or grass roots history, but the leadership) have been part of one of the most damaging elements of this hcr effort.

The unions are not selling out the middle class. The unions ARE the middle class and I, for one, am glad they still have the ability to make their voices heard and push back against the corporatist tide. Because, let’s face it, nobody else has, have they? This is the first effective push leftward since the whole health care debacle has started. So let’s not demonize the only politically effective progressive political bloc in America (and no, I’m not talking about Move-on, NOW, and the rest of them, whose collective influence was nil). If the unions get what they want, good for them. If that makes you feel jealous, JOIN A UNION (because after this passes the only way to get good insurance will be through a union, it seems) or create an equally focused, hard-nosed, interests-based organization. They are showing us all how it’s done.

Oh yes, that’s just how people are. Anyone who drinks Starbucks and not DnD…right? GMAB

Nice opening, way to call someone elses point of view and cause a “Jihad” Worthy tactics indeed.

I also like how you note union human being have to deal with the real bill – but bloggers (note: bloggers are also human beings) don’t can can toss it out on a whim… that is real bull.

You have to forgive them… channeling Emanuel’s talking points must be terribly damaging to their synapses.

Jane “. That dam isn’t going to hold much longer, and now that the unions have decided to jump in a bunker in an “every man for himself” crouch I don’t forsee much of a public outcry if they don’t get one”

Divide and conquer