The most common defense of the Senate health care bill is that we should “not make the perfect the enemy of the good.” If this were a debate between the perfect and the good, the decision to accept a compromise that only result in “the good” would be easy.
The issue is that we are not discussing the perfect, the good, or even the very decent. The fight is between the acceptable level of small improvement and a terrible corporate giveaway with a few minor improvements thrown in.
To show how far the debate is from the perfect I want to quickly outline what the perfect would look like.
The Perfect
The perfect would have the access to top of the line equipment and procedures found in Germany. It would offer equal access for everyone to a fully integrated health care with no or very low cost sharing, like that found in the UK. The system would provide our nation with average life expectancies on par with Japan, at low per capita cost like those found in New Zealand.
The perfect would increase our average life expectancy by roughly five years, cut our health care spending by 65%, and provide every individual in the country with access to high quality care with no large personal medical costs and eliminate fear of medical bankruptcy.
The Very Good
The “perfect” is probably unobtainable for a variety of reasons beyond politics. The very good would look more like an expanded, improved version of Medicare for everyone. It would be Medicare for all with some of Medicare’s more serious problems resolved – like fixing the wasteful drug benefit program run by private insurance companies. This system would provide every American with good health insurance while reducing our national health expenditure by roughly 20-35%.
The Good
There are many different ways to get a “good” health care reform. One approach could be an option available to all to buy into a Medicare-like robust public option — this would be approximately 25% cheaper than private insurance — combined with automatic enrollment of everyone below 250% FPL in a high quality public health care program.
Another approach would be a Belgian-like system in which for-profit health insurance companies are eliminated; all non-profit insurance funds are required to only sell a few standardized high quality insurance plans; the same insurers are required to use a single government-set reimbursement rate, so all can truly afford health insurance. Such a plan would also need something like direct government negotiations with drug companies and drug re-importation to rein in the pharmaceutical companies. It would also need to provide true universal coverage instead of the Senate or House bills which will leave over 20 million in this country without health insurance.
The Decent
A decent health care reform bill would have some tough new regulations on insurance companies combined with a stronger social safety net and real cost control. Under such a bill, employers would be required to provide insurance, but they may offer only good health insurance, like in Hawaii.
A decent reform bill would need centralized reimbursement negotiators to reduce costs, as well drug re-importation to reduce cost for pharmaceuticals.
A major expansion of public insurance, like Medicaid, would also be needed for all the uninsured or provide generous subsidies to buy into a very cost effective Medicare-like public option.
The Acceptable
Acceptable reform is basically the House bill without the anti-choice Stupak amendment. There are some new regulations in the bill which cover all private insurers in the country. The bill employs national regulator enforcement so the new regulations have some bite to effect change. There is a limited amount of cost control, but not nearly enough to truly drive down overall health care costs. Employers are required to provide at least somewhat decent insurance coverage.
There is a very large expansion of Medicaid with increased payments to primary care doctors to make expanded Medicaid coverage usable. The subsidies are good for a limited number of insureds. People would be forced to buy insurance that might not be affordable but at least they are not forced to pay private insurance companies which have ruined our existing system.
Acceptable reform only decreases the number of uninsured but does not get us universal coverage.
The Bad
The Senate bill is just a bad corporate giveaway with a very few good things in it. It has some good new regulations but leaves enforcement up to the states. This is recipe for regulations which are not enforced and are therefore meaningless.
The new regulations only impact the small group market; they don’t apply to the majority of private insurance in this country. The weird “free rider” provision instead of a real employer mandate creates some bad hiring incentives along with incentives to drop coverage.
The quality of the insurance people will be forced to buy is incredibly low and the subsidies are insufficient. People will have no other choice but to buy coverage from very inefficient and wasteful private insurance companies.
The bill lacks real cost control and the new poorly-designed excise tax will result in millions of Americans getting lower quality health insurance. The bill is not even a good foundation for future reform because it works on a state-by-state basis while directing huge amounts of money and power to the industries which opposed real reform.
The Senate bill does not provide anything close to universal coverage; it also contains a major roll back of women’s reproductive health rights.
Far from perfect
It is important to remember that the perfect was never mentioned in this health care debate. The very good was declared impossible and did not even have a place at the table when they started planning reform last year. Even good reform was dismissed almost immediately.
The debate this entire time has been between what might be labeled “decent reform” at best, and terrible corporate giveaway labeled “reform.” This is not about making the perfect the enemy of the good. We were never even offered the “good” as a compromise.



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Thank you for this excellent, if depressing, analysis.
Welcome to Madison Ave.
Candidates are now products, like toothpaste.
Has anyone ever heard the words “No Child Left Behind” (guess what really happens all kids got left behind)
Has anyone ever heard the words “Operation Iraqui Liberation” OIL (yes we are in Iraq for the oil)
Has anyone ever heard the words “Health Care Reform” (this is not about Health care, this is all about making Insurance Companies a lot of money)
Always listen to the politicians, no one ever talks about dropping the Individual Mandate. makes you wonder? Because HCR is a complete scam.
It is sorta like calling Obama a progressive or Democrat like Kennedy, Obama is a product of Madison Ave.
If the Dems wanted to make HCR better they could.
Progressives must wake up, the Dem Party has been taken over by the Wall Street Crooks.
Welcome to the HOPE A DOPE
Madison Ave. told the world Bush was a nice guy, you would love to have a beer with. How many people want to have a beer with Bush now.
Wake Up Progressives
Spot on. The bill should be defeated and health care reform should be front and center in 2010. The bill, as it stands now, looks like what the republicans should have come up with, had they ever put any effort into anything other than obstructionism.
Man, if there is one hackneyed expression that I really got tired of during last fall’s health care debate it was, “We can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good!” (I heard Ed Schultz express similar sentiments once.) It made my blood boil to hear this expression. We are Americans, we could have the perfect if we wanted to have the perfect!
Would we ever hear the Conservadems or Chuck Todds of the world saying “perfect enemy of the good” bullshit when referring to the military? I doubt it…
Or, perhaps, we should not make the deeply flawed the enemy of the fatally flawed.
From my perspective, the health care “debate” was never about what the legislation ultimately comes down to when Obama signs it. That’s what the crony capitalists…the power brokers behind the curtains…want us to focus on and discuss.
Instead, it is about how this bill was crafted behind the curtains. It is about how democracy is bought and paid for by those who wield enormous economic and political power in both New York and Washington. They are inseparable here.
And if we grasp how it is done this way we know it will never stop being done this way until Rahm Emanuel and DLC Democrats are driven from the Party. And until progressives can create a mass movement able to accomplish this.
You misunderstand.
The perfect (benefit for consumer) is the enemy of the good (for us).
Bending the Cost Curve means bending the employers’ cost curve.
The constituency, beneficiaries of this bill are Insurance Companies, and Employers. Voters? How much have they given a senator recently? They’re getting what they paid for.
When Obama refused the option of using budget rules from the get go (the option Bush used for everything), one knew that he wanted more by way of corporate welfare than he could get if the blue dog Dems could be ignored. He planned on our current situation developing – and now we are here. In Feb of 2009 we could have pushed through both Financial deregulation and insurance regulation. Today we will be lucky to get a watered down financial bill – not because of Congressman Frank – who proposes bills that actually cover what we need – but because of the power given the blue dogs on his committee by the expansion in membership on his committee which kills progressive bills. That expansion was something the WH had Nancy do to that committee. The other part of the reform – the Medicaid expansion – should again have been a separate bill that also established Medicare at age zero via a buy in that is subsidized done through budget as a cost saving measure. The Byrd rinse would have been avoided via a ruling from the chair and 51 votes. Now we have a mess that rips up women’s rights and screws unions and taxes the middleclass. Only the idea of national regulation with the very weak 80% claims ratio quality of insurance requirement makes this even worth a hold your nose “yes” vote – and the Senate Bill has killed that control by making the regulation a state function – and indeed by killing a single national exchange (place to buy insurance) in favor separate state exchanges. If the Senate prevails, there is really little reason to support this bill. As a retired actuary in insurance I am very familiar with state regulation, and for every high quality Illinois, Mass, or New York Department of Insurance there are dozens that are rubber stamps for the insurance companies. Little new tax money is set up that could be used to fund subsidies for a future better plan- it is just a screw the unions and middle class and those on Medicare funding approach. It is hard to see how we get from the Senate bill to a “good” – or even “acceptable” or “decent”)plan in some future Congress with this President.
The time is past to debate what is good, what is bad, etc. We all know. We’ve been transparently sold out by a completely bought-and-paid-for political party topped by corrupt officials in the houses of Congress and the White House. The Obama administration and the Congressional Democratic leadership are a wholly owned subsidiary of the health insurance and pharmaceutical cartels. Debating how to improve the “reform” we are about to get is really just maintaining a sense of denial, a suspension of disbelief about the character of these officials. It should be torch-and-pitchfork time, and it certainly is time to throw the bums out. Let’s cross our fingers and hope for electoral annihilation for the Democrats. The only response to what they are doing to we progressives is to try to destroy their majority and keep them from having one until time around the year 2167.
The only way to stop an exploitative bully from abusing you is to hurt him. Bad. Exploitative, abusive bullies don’t “debate” with you. They don’t include you in their “big tent”. What they DO do is walk all over you most of the time except when they need something from you and they manipulate and coerce you to get what they want. The only way to stop the abuse is to hurt the bully, bad.
A simpler breakdown of the perfect as enemy of the good:
Perfect for whom?
Good for whom?
Enemy of whom?
watertiger is upstairs!
Late Night: God’s Great Design for Sarah Palin
Just what do you propose we ‘activists’ do — I’m sorta burned
out on the ‘call to arms’from the OFA (contributing $$$–always
being ready for the fight) and blogosphere et al. I’d gladly
spend a night in jail (if a knock down drag-em-out protest
would make a diff); but I have two kids in college and a upside
down/underwater mortgage of sorts. Either ya got the big ‘Mo’
or ya don’t.
They have this wine in the Burgundy area of France called Romanee-Conti. It’s north of $1000 per bottle sometimes. Why is it so good? Well, it’s famous, for one, but another reason they give is that, well, apparently, it used to be a monastery a while back and the monks there would take the grapevines (it’s the Pinot Noir grape there, aka Burgundy) and pick and select and breed only those grapevines (Pinot Noir has thousands and thousands of subspecies or cultivars or strains or whatever they call them), they would take only those subvarieties of the grapevines that did well in that particular plot of land. They weren’t selected for any other reason than for the reason that they did well in that particular area of the world. If you grew a Pinot Noir in California, it would be a completely different wine because it would be a completely different plot. Well, many not completely different, but different nonetheless. Sure, you could cut back the buds, drastically reducing the yield, concentrating the natural flavors in a small number of grapes, but the grapevines you’d be doing it do might be a totally different sub-variety, and even if you started with a similar variety, they might morph. In other words, one of the secrets of Romanee-Conti wine is that it’s meticulously optimized for that particular geographic area.
Health care is a much more boring topic, but of course, if you’re a member of Big Pharma, it’s probably much more profitable (but I digress).
What defines America? How is it unique? Let’s start with Quebec. On Thursday, June 9, 2005, the Supreme Court of Quebec struck down a law banning people from purchasing private health insurance. One of the reasons was apparently that the justices felt that the single payer system in place there was, in some cases, taking too long to provide access and people were sometimes even dying because they couldn’t get access fast enough. Bear with me here, people are dying in the states for a different reason, I know — just bear with me here. So what are the chances that private health insurance would ever be banned by Congress here in the US? Would the House and the Senate ever, EVER, make private insurance illegal? And in the seemingly unlikely event that they did, what would the Supreme Court do? I think Quebec gives us a pretty good idea. Nothing is for sure, and I don’t have a crystal ball of that kind, but I think Quebec gives us a pretty good idea.
So… Medicare and Medicaid. They don’t pay. Very much. So the private insurers pick up the slack. A “robust” public option would do the same thing, unless you BANNED private insurance (which probably wouldn’t happen or last). As more and more people join Medicaid, as more and more boomers join Medicaid, and now you add a “robust” public option? Yikes. Private insurance would become more popular than ever, and we’d be paying even more for it than we would have otherwise. This is because the hospital administrators would always be able to subsidize the additional Medicaid, Medicare and public option patients (at least in part, at least some of them, at least perhaps even quite a few of them) by continuing with the outrageous, nonstop, seemingly incomprehensible and rather frightening if you don’t have insurance medical inflation. It’s a good idea on paper, but then again, Romanee-Conti cannot be duplicated unless you have a very technologically robust holodeck.
A non-robust public option would mitigate that problem, but there is something else it wouldn’t do. What an exchange, where the same companies that run the privates run the non-profits, does is it brings those companies in on the loop. It forces them to negotiate with the hospitals, hopefully stopping the insane medical inflation that’s going on. A non-robust public option wouldn’t do that, because those negotiations would get subsidized by private insurers (again). The government negotiates more favorable rates with the hospitals, and they take those losses and turn around and stick the private insurers and self-pays with them. With the exchange, the companies that run the privates are doing the negotiations for the the rates (or are having them being done for them by the feds). This is going to give them rate negotiating power for the private plans. This is more likely to stop the implicit subsidization that self-pays do (and what does private insurance insure but self-pays?). Stopping the subsidization stops the cost curve. It’s essentially a form of rationing, but that rationing is left up to the hospital administrators largely in the form of how many Medicare and Medicaid patients they take. Of course, unfortunately, this means that Medicare and Medicaid patients get left out in the cold. They lose that subsidy, the one that the self-pays subsidize.
Medicare and Medicaid are like a record contract. Everyone gets paid, then the musicians. The producer gets paid, the recording studio gets paid, the record pressing plant gets paid, Fender and Gibson and Tama and Rhodes and Marshall and everyone else get paid. After all of that, then the record company gets paid. And if there’s anything left over, the artists end up with it. Often times, they’d be better off financially flipping burgers. But anyway. Same thing. Medical schools get paid. The interest on the college loans gets paid. The people who make the carpet in the hospital waiting rooms (and the ones who install it as well) get paid. The manufacturers of the scalpels and the MRI machines get paid. Property taxes get paid. Salaries for nurses and other staff get paid. Big pharma gets PAID. Even the doctors get paid. Maybe not as much as they’d like from every patient, but hey, choosing between a Medicaid patient and twiddling your thumbs (or tweeting your colleagues), do a good deed, right? It gets to a point where the hospital administrators end up being the wannabe rock stars. Ain’t no fun waiting ’round to be a millionaire! So that would be a bad side effect of the Senate bill. Medicare and Medicaid would have to start paying for the services they get, and would no longer be able to rely on a subsidy from the private plans. The private plans can raise my rates, they can raise my employer’s rates, but if Uncle Sam is picking up the tab, he isn’t going to be very happy about the premiums going up all the time, and he won’t pay. He’ll have hearings. Hello, Uncle Sam, how are you doing, friend? Oh yeah? Get your Medicare patients out of my hospital!
That’s why it makes me wonder, it’s like don’t these politicians care about anything else other than paper? And if they keep this up Is the money they print going to be worth the paper it’s printed on? Just because it looks good on paper doesn’t mean it’s going to work. Don’t get me wrong, Medicare and Medicaid are a huge part of the problem. I mean we have to care about one another, but you can’t just not pay for stuff and call it good. If insurance was affordable, no one would care where it came from. If you’re covered from the cradle to the grave (or the womb to the grave), pre-existing conditions are physically impossible.
I like the Senate plan. It’s not intentional. No one would run for office on its promise. It’s an anomaly, its a happy accident. An accidental discovery that just might change the world. But these politicians, they’re like a deadly fungus or something. They’ve got their paper and they like things that look good on paper.
I guess that in life, it’s always a gang of one, or maybe ten. After all, human beings are a naturally occurring carbon-based life form. We are technically “wild” animals. That makes us behave in certain imperfect ways and do certain imperfect things. But the Senate version of the bill, as it stands, despite the BS, I have a good feeling about. It’s the naturally-occurring carbon-based life forms that are doing what they do with Senate bills that have me worried.
By whom was the ‘very good’ declared impossible? Zeus? Poseidon? The use of the passive voice makes it hard to tell who did this declaring, and leaves unclear whether all the peasants heeded the declaration.
for a little infill on this mystery, one could do well to review Kip Sullivan’s valuable essay on the political ‘Yes, Buts.’
thanks! ‘pragmatic’ Progressives! those who will stand for nothing (because its just not feasible, too idealistic, excuses, excuses…) are likely to fall for anything, and only barely wake up in time, days before the Congress brings the shambles to a vote, with muted calls to “kill the bill!” (or else, erhm, nothing, because access oriented electoralist Bloggers will never call for defection from the Party of the Least Worst, no matter what.)
Yep. Too bad nobody who doesn’t need better health care will listen to this argument.
Obama’s pre-Garden of Eden Solution for Health Care Reform
To paraphrase & translate this president’s make no mistake/let’s be clear rhetoric:
If Obama was starting from scratch with no existing vested interests, he would have proposed and stood up for single payor because that’s the most egalitarian access and efficient delivery system for keeping the most of this country’s human beings as healthy as possible.
It’s like the 90 year old guy who goes to his doctor for a check up, and tells him that he’s getting married next week to a 23 year old tri-athlete. The doctor cautions him, “Remember at your age, sex can be fatal.” The old guy smiles and says, “Doc, if she dies, she dies.”
Well, as gobbledygook goes, at least it’s not too narrowly focused.
Here’s where it goes comically awry.
Jeez, there’s so much wrong packed into that one paragraph it’s a bit startling.
It was intentional. The Senate took a long time figuring out just how to screw the taxpayers and bailout the big insurance cos. They will have to run on it in 2010, and 2012, it’s not an anomaly, the bill was written by an insurance executive with aid an input from PHARMA. Further, they aren’t even done “discovering” it yet. So it could, and probably will, get worse. It will certainly “change the world” for a lot of women who will need a certain legal medical procedure.
Finally, I don’t know what deadly fungus has to do with liking things on paper, but if you’ve read any of Marcy Wheeler or Jon Walker’s posts, you know that this piece of crap doesn’t even look good on paper.
Happy accident FAIL.
I’m starting to get super-tired of those who say “you don’t really mean you want to kill the bill; you just want an improved bill.” They are too desperate, and they are the main reason we are getting nothing.
Very Very Wrong Analysis – sorry, but health insurance costs did not work that way in all my years as an ins actuary and do not work, I believe, the way you suggest today. Despite the over building and excess gadget purchases, the actual cost of care is rather fixed at a value well below what we pay in total. Massachusetts General Hospital – a very efficient teaching hospital – spends 25% of its budget on its billing area because dealing with insurance company attempts to deny payment takes a lot of effort. The 30 % savings to be had by single payer is overstated – it is more like 15% to begin with until the system adjusts to the savings from not dealing with insurance companies – at which point it may exceed 30% (our $7400 per person cost can drop quite a way before it gets to France’s below $4000 cost). There is a shifting of health care costs – which you refer to as lower reimbursement folks getting offset by higher paying ins. plans – but the point is that in total it does not matter in calculating the total cost of health care – shifts between groups do not matter – there is no saving by preventing shifts between groups. The Senate bill is a $600 billion welfare check to the insurance companies with guarantees that PHARMA need never bargain on prices in the US – for which we get minimal reform and near zero cost control and only a quality of product rule of a 80% claims ratio. The Senate continues the exclusion from price fixing laws (monopoly laws), continues pre-existing screw you conduct via a 400% premium increase for “pre-existing” being permitted, continues annual caps on payouts that stop treatment mid-year while pretending the lifetime cap prohibition makes a change, kills “competition” by killing national “exchanges”, limiting you to a “state exchange” to buy your product, kills regulation by not having a national regulation as it sets up states – the same state regulators (except in a few states) that now rubber stamp all things insurance – it may even allow cross state line sales of product not approved in your state – meaning absolutely zero regulation – not even the rubber stamp regulation to protect you. And it does this via a middle class tax that will not control costs because it just shifts cost to out of pocket from insurance plan premium – the good plan premium as income tax – and which will not result in wage increases (Gruber’s analysis is even weaker than yours – no offense to either you or Gruber is intended).
No, it doesn’t. If it did, it most likely wouldn’t work very well. Welcome to America.
It’s because the real problem is “The Church of Modern Medicine” — done for profit, and none of any kind of legislation at all (even single-payer) addresses that.
The problem is the way we do medicine. If you’re looking for a cure for cancer, would you limit yourself to those things that are patentable? Think about it… it’s not a “cure” if it can’t be FDA approved, and it can’t be FDA approved if someone doesn’t shell out at least $500-800 million and probably a lot more than that, and no one is going to do that if they can’t patent it. Meanwhile, a small group of grad students on a remote expedition in an Amazonian jungle…
What if it wasn’t Red Cross, but Black Triangle. — “Breaking News… Black Triangle’s stock has gone up 55% in light of Hurricane Katrina”.
They’d have loan officers on every helicopter rescuing people from their rooftops. They’d even take your cat for an extra 10 grand.
The problem is the church of modern medicine. The Senate plan, and yes, it’s ugly and it should be “Slaughtered” (love that name) and it sucks but it looks like the Senate bill, unintentionally, accidentally, removes some of the profit motive. It institutes a SANER rationing, one that is based on truth, not politics or money or profit. The problem is what is called “The Church of Modern Medicine”. That’s the problem. Period. Change the Church, solve the problem. These bills should be unconstitutional because of the separation of church and state — Priests with white coats, altar boys and girls with blue scrubs, and Obama must be the Pope, right?
But yeah, you’re right. As a bill, as a “reform”, it sucks, it’s ugly, and they should just “Slaughter” it. But the underlying problem with our medicine as a whole — $400K on average for chemo, 3% overall survival after 5 years? If that was a medicine man with eagle feathers he’d probably be in a jail cell or barred from even attempting any healing ceremonies at all, certainly not charging hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to private insurance plans!
C’mon, man. Go manage a hedge fund. Move to Las Vegas or something. Health care shouldn’t be about market caps and patents and all that. That’s 90% of your problem right there.
Obama is getting the “perfect” plan that he and Rahm dreamed about from the start:
– The insurance companies & big pharma fund the corporate corruption wing of the Democratic party (aka “blue dogs”)
– The same companies promise not to contribute to Republicans, defunding the opposition.
– The corporate media has a collective corpragasm with the historic passage of health care “reform” and boost Obama’s re-elect numbers.
– And the nasty details like mandates don’t kick in until after he has been re-elected (as if)!
I tell you, what could be more perfect than that? You didn’t expect actual reform, did you?
Closing the Gap
Now THAT’S change we can make believe in — getting incumbent re-election percentages from 85% to 99% by 2012.
Replying to nelsoncris @ 19
I’m having difficulties figuring out if you are saying “We should move from providing treatment on a Fee for Service basis to providing it on a Fee for Outcome basis.” or “Waterslide Caterpillar Beep-beep, Skidoo!”
So, I’ll tentatively request that you explain how the senate bill introduces saner rationing, because there is no Fee for Outcome provision anywhere near this bill, and if you mean the excise tax, well, many more knowledgeable posters and commenters at this blog have already knocked that one in the dirt.
“We cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”
I despise this phrase for so many reasons in reference to the current health care reform “debate” (as if it were truly a debate. It’s really the Democrats trying to cram through a bill despite honest concerns from the left and dishonest, cynical, self-interested dissent from the right.)
I think there are a simple set of questions that the Democrats should answer with this one, and let the people decide if the current reform bills are sufficient.
‘Will medical bankruptcies end?’
‘Will American families have to forgo treatment due to out-of-pocket costs?’
‘Will current health care infrastructure such as doctors, hospitals, and labs cover the population now being insured into the system?’
‘Will costs rise under the current plan, understanding that U.S. medical care costs are already the highest on the planet?’
‘Will anyone of those who need coverage be left without it?’
Now once these questions are answered, will they look much like ‘reform’? Will they look much like ‘changing the broken system?’
I think it’s simple that people will see it’s not much difference from before. Yet the Democrats, widely known as being simply brilliant at winning elections and maintaining their seats, are ACTIVELY DEFENDING their ‘historic reform’ against the consciousness of the American public.
So, let’s get this straight. We get a bad health care bill. We get a bad public sentiment for Democrats. And we get a bad political landscape in the 2010 and 2012 elections which means we get more Republicans and Tea Partiers in office, who then work against the public good. Which is bad.
So, hey…
EVERYBODY CELEBRATE!
Saner rationing —
I suppose I should say it “might”. Medicare and Medicaid, as well as Health Reform, are a type of promise. If this passes, people will gear up for it. Medical schools will expect more students, doctors will expect more patients, hospitals might build more facilities to handle a greater load, etc.
The non-profits might allow the hospital administrators to make their investments back, as they are negotiating rates, but Medicare and Medicaid (with increasing numbers of folks due to baby boomers and expanded eligibility respectively) aren’t magically going to start paying Blue Cross or Humana or Aetna negotiated rates. And since the government is picking up the tab for the exchange, anything exceeding x% of income for the taxpayer, the exchange providers can’t just go subsidizing Medicare and Medicaid, so they are forced to negotiate down the reimbursement rates so that their premiums don’t skyrocket as Uncle Sam wouldn’t be too happy about that as he’s picking up everything in excess of x% of income. They really should change that to Uncle Sam AND Aunt Samantha or whatever, it’s sexist. But anyway…
The key thing is that there is no doubt going to be official (on paper) or unofficial (hearings, political speeches, etc…) pressure on the insurance providers participating on the exchange to hold down the rate of increase of the premiums to something closer to the actual inflation rate — and since what they’re insuring (self-pays) have been inflating about 10% per year for at least a decade, it’s kind of hard to do that. And if they’re negotiating down the rates on the exchange plans, it’s going to be very awkward for the hospital administrators to turn around and try to subsidize those lower rates on the exchange plans with private plans from the very same companies. Much more awkward than if there were a public option, for instance, where the negotiations about rates would be taking place between Aunt Samantha and the hospital administrators.
It might work, it might not. This thing might not pass anyway. The abortion thing is just atrocious. But it just goes to show ya — Ben Franklin, paraphrased, more or less “S/he who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither”. Amazing how these politicians just throw women’s rights to bodily integrity “under the bus”, so to speak, just to accomplish what — saving face? Being on the right side of history, even if it means doing a grave ethical injustice to approximately 50% of American population? Going against what the people who elected you to do and losing your seat in the process is the “right” thing to do? And nullifying Roe v Wade in the process? Incroyable.
What would happen with the Senate plan is that the exchanges (run by the same folks who do the private plans) wouldn’t be able to raise the rates as they’d like, and to deal with that, negotiations with hospital administrators would be a logical starting place to cut costs. Hospitals inflate the prices because Medicare and Medicaid don’t pay, some self-pays don’t pay, and people who use emergency rooms as their primare care physicians tend to not pay. This situation might force the hospital administrators to be more careful in which self-pays that don’t pay they take (which probably means less use of the actual MSRP), more focus on down payments and payment plans which means more use of the private negotiated rates (still going up 10% annually though), and significantly curtailing Medicare and Medicaid patients, as those programs don’t pay what is asked of them. Bad, bad, bad, news for those folks who rely on those programs and need them.
But yet again, if that hospital administrator “has a heart”, s/he can pick and choose, with a heavy heart, which Medicare and Medicaid patients sh/e’ll take, and which one’s sh/e won’t. In other words, the rationing will be totally open and unregulated, and in the hands of the hospital administrator, in a country like America which has a strong commitment to consideration of variable costs alone, and although that may often be in response to competitive forces, a focus on variable costs as a response to a self-perceived moral imperative would probably result in a saner rationing protocol as a way to wade through the chaos we have created by allowing Wall Street to hijack our hospitals and pharmacies, creating what essentially amounts to a religion (more or less) that is robbing us blind.
It’s all going to be in the hands of the hospital administrations. These administrations are informed by some extremely, extremely talented and caring individuals who have a significant amount of clout (did I say it was a quasi-religion?). It’s not on paper, but costs need to be cut. There was a guy (Dr. Robert S Mendelsohn) who’s gone on record stating that about 50% or more (various quotes say 50-90%) of the surgeries performed in the US and elsewhere in the world are unnecessary or could be put off.
Malpractice lawsuits aside, we could probably walk through an average hospital and send a number of people home. We could probably take a large number of people off prescription drugs, replace them with other things or just eliminate them and watchfully wait. We could look at an OR schedule and postpone some stuff. Now this is the kind of thing, if you have the government out of there, only concerned about the bottom line via their new best friends the newly non-profit insurance companies, you can do in a more intelligent way. What do you postpone, whom do you turn down, whom do you not, and if you do it right, private insurance and all insurance as well as negotiated rates go down.
The rationing would be in the hands of the most talented, compassionate, caring, highly educated, open minded, loving and caring people that the entire health care system has to offer. That’s what I’m talking about. Not some govt. bureaucrat or some hourly employee at a health insurance company. Throw some common-sense tort reform in there for good measure (only the FDA can approve death as a side effect!) and you’ve got the kind of America we can all be proud of.
Again, this is speculation, but it just might work. Then again, it might not. Too close to call, no way to know. As someone once said, everything is a 50/50 chance. Either it will happen, or it wont.
Gallup states that 21% of Americans are self-identified as “Liberal”. The entire argument here is based on the liberal-leaning ideology of FDL. The reason that this point is IMPORTANT is because some folks here don’t fully accept how far away the “left” is from most of America…If the author were to approach the debate from a MODERATE’s view, he’d find himself using different definitions of HCR success. There’s one thing that’s clear about polling on HCR: Americans are sending confusing signals. In an IDEALISTIC world, we’d love to take a leap to single-payer. In fact, America would like a strong “public option” (in theory). In the real world that MOST of America “lives in”, there’s one little problem with large-scale activist government intervention —- People think that the government is incompetent!! Forget about how effective the stimulus has been. The government has shown incompetence when trying to even MEASURE how effective it’s been! Now government distrust that might not factor into the Walker scale of HCR. It DOES factor into the other 79% of Americans view of “good” HCR looks like. The ONLY way to progress from Americans distrust of gov’t is to SHOW benefits. That’s why HCR needs to start with this bill.
I see — so in your estimation we wait until the Band-Aid Period is over before we do anything about this bill.
Well you’re no fun.
Ain’t I a Citizen? Lawd, I am sooo tired of being forced to ride in the back of “no frills airline” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCz8he36hsk) in every shape and way. There is no “Separate But Equal.” I want the same standard of living the Congresscritters give themselves on the taxpayer dime including the “Perfect” healthcare.
Germany has the availability of machines and procedures only because 10% of the population is privately insured, and their insurance will cover the real costs of those procedures, leading to the availability at all for those covered by public insurance.
Also you do realize that in Germany doctors are earning about 50% less now than they did 20 years ago (inflation adjusted), and most nurses are earnign in the $14 an hour range.
http://www.stern.de/wirtschaft/arbeit-karriere/karriere/der-stern-gehaltsreport-wer-verdient-wie-viel-1533752.html
“People think that the government is incompetent!! ”
Bull.
Ronald Reagan has been proven time and time again to have been wrong about pretty much EVERYTHING, so when someone comes around touting the 1980s Republican marketing scam, it shows the real absence of creative or analytical thought on the right. Look at California right now: THAT is Reagan’s legacy. He took a working government and MADE IT UNWORKABLE. He purposely institutionalized government failure. Our government is NOT inherently incompetent, but it can be made UNWORKABLE by those with money-making schemes and political axes to grind.
The HCR fiasco we watched unfold in the Senate is a perfect example of individuals with connections to private money-making schemes and partisan agendas collaborating to take simple, workable proposals like those contained in the House bill, and making them unavailable or “off the table” because they interfere with the privatized money-making schemes (or make members of the opposition happy), or making them unworkable by adding poison pills like punitive anti-abortion restrictions, taxes on middle-class coverage, individual mandates with penalties for taxpayers, and removing cost-containment or other restrictions on thieving monopolistic corporations.
The Senate bill sucks big-time because it was intended to. The government of, by, and for the People is NOT incompetent, it is UNDER ATTACK by corporations and individuals intent upon making it fail. That’s what Reagan was always all about, and that’s what the right-wing is STILL all about: killing functional government by de-funding it or perverting its mission to serve private corporate interests.
As usual, the corporatists and uttermost right try to confuse issues with their skewed image of a political continuum which puts most of the world on the “radical left”, which of course, doesn’t match reality. When MOST PEOPLE in America look at something like the proposed public option and APPROVE of it, that makes it middle-of-the-road or “moderate”. Those who subsequently oppose all of the things which MOST PEOPLE in America want are the ones who are off-center. The more adamantly they oppose moderate solutions like the public option, the clearer their extremism becomes to all who can see.
It is quite plain to all who are watching that the moderate solutions contained in the House bill are being scuttled by the ultra-right wing extremists and corporate owned saboteurs. They do not want most Americans to get what they want & need, they want to force all Americans to make the corporatists rich while institutionalizing the pains of economic distress and unavailable / unaffordable / inadequate health care for the majority of taxpayers. That’s a plan which Reagan would no doubt approve of.
I have had some recent time in the doctors chair. What really came as a surprise to me was my bill. As I was reading through the pages of seemingly endless nonsense. I came across a passage that stated something like this. “Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan will reimburse member doctors at the Medicare rate.” I am at a loss to describe my puzzlement. I thought that the doctors would all go broke, if as a country, we all were on a Medicare type system. Or perhaps I just read my bill incorrectly.
What you going to do.I’m One I always vote I pledge not to vote for an incumbent Republican or Democrat and if possible not to vote for a party backed puppet.
Nonsense -
First check professional nurse salaries – perhaps in English as you do not understand the site you link to is discussing an average that includes non-professional and part-time. So we use http://www.worldsalaries.org/professionalnurse.shtml
Here we see Canada has universal, at half our cost , which results in a 3 year longer life span – and nurses get paid just about the same (nearly $2800 net)as the $3100 (net after compulsory deductions from $4000 per month) available in the US). Germany is reported by the German gov as 2244 net, UK as 2800 – data is as for 2005.
Doctor pay is less – but then we make doctors graduate with over $200,000 in school debt – and overseas they do not. Our doctors must charge enough to recover that debt – plus recover the loss of money during their post graduate required 4 years as “intern/resident” where first year salaries were pegged at $35,000 5 years ago.
Saner rationing is a good and what you posit would be saner rationing.
Rationing by wealth – the US system – just does not seem liberal, or progressive, or even “fair”.
But your concept is one that is either already in play and will not change, or is not in play and will not be put in play by the Senate bill. Cost shifting is a heavy part of your analysis, but what we need is cost control. As another poster noted, insurance company payouts are based on Medicare rates – not any “customary” or “needed level” survey – and indeed are often exactly the same as Medicare making the supplemental Medicare insurance pretty much worthless. I note the United health pretense of a customary cost level survey was blown apart in court.
“We can’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good” – The sentiments of a spineless Democrat. Yes, as progressives, let’s just roll over and take what the likes of Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman will give us. There is something to be noticed in the timeline of the HCR scam. It’s that the massacre of the bill came from within the Democratic Party. It wasn’t the Republicans that strong armed us out of this, we’ve actually done a fairly decent job of telling them to get bent. However, it’s the conservative operatives inside the Democratic Party who killed the public option, the medicare expansion, drug re-importation, and amendments that would have ended the privat e insurance industries pass on anti-trust laws. It was our party that has been doing everything in its power to put anti-choice provisions in both the House and Senate bills (Stupak and Nelson respectively). It’s our party that struck up a deal with PhrMA.
There is something terribly wrong with the institutional values of the Democratic Party, and it’s bleeding to its voters. For all the rightful outrage in regards to this health insurance bill (I call it that because it has nothing to do with health care), most Democrats and liberals will likely just shut up and vote for Obama and the failures on the hill that are compromising their values as we speak. Until we stop hinging our votes on the minute differences between Corporate Party A and Corporate Party B, we’ll never have reform thats anything more than dismal. Let it die! If your represented by an endangered Democrat, don’t take part in saving him. Even if his/her opponent is the most disgusting of right-wing hacks in public, it makes no difference when it gets to the smoke filled rooms of the capitol. Vote third party/write-in (or not at all) and save your dollars. The teabaggers have their major party of choice running to the right in fear of losing their votes, it’s time that progressives got their major party of choice running to the left.
EDIT: I’m not actually responding to TruthHurts2, I must have accidentally clicked it or something.
As someone whose mother in law and sister in law were both full time nurses in Germany, I am quite aware of what the wages in Germany are. And they are in the 10-14€ an hour category. There is also a large percentage of part time nurses, and most not by choice.
What I linked to is a very recent report in a quite left leaning magazine comparing salaries in 100 professions for 2008 compared to 1990, and doctors in Hospitals and clinics are the field whose salaries have dropped the msot, a full 50% on Purchasing Power Parity…..this is also directly related to the dramatic shortages of doctors, especially rural doctors in Germany.
I have immediate friends who are in the medical profession in America, Canada and Germany, one on th AMA board, another head of reimbursement negotiation for his specialty in British Columbia, and a university hospital chairman in Germany.
the fact is that in Canada wages are only high because of the threat to leave for the states. In Germany younger doctors tend to do weekend stints in countries like the UK to stock up their salary, and the political necessity to keep the premiums under 17% of wages in Germany have led to all sorts of cuts in reimbursement, copays qand the like, which make it very unattractive for new doctors to go into medicine.
Germany does n fact have very marginal tuition for University, but lost wages until age 30 are still a loss in earning potential, and any american can apply to German Medical school if they pass the language exam and have high enough grades.
Most Candian doctors I know also end up coming out of med school with a good $150k in debt as well.
If america paid it’s doctors less, Canda would follow suit, and the motivation to study medicine would be a lto less attractive….and that lag takes about 20 years to show in severe doctor shortages.
I have lived and worked in all 3 systems, and I would pick the German, just without the threshold at which people can opt out of the public schemes and into the private ones…where I chose my high deductable low premium insurance and saw it kick in perfectly at $5k when I had the $200,000 bill year for Melanoma….
The public system, with political lobbying, and an all you can eat game the system mentality from the patients is one of the reasons why the prices skyrocket.
Lobbying is the problem,a dn the best way to avoid that is to give the government less say in what happens….less extension of patents, less protection of monopolies and such…..strengthen consumer protections, no real problem with that, but if you get the government involved, you are fostering lobbying…..
and the residency requirements in Germany and Canda are just as long,a dn the salaries are no better….you don’t eanr nothign till you are 30