you are right, I forgot about the Basistariff

I also just found out a close friend in Germany who is self employed has not been insured for 2 years now, because he cannot afford the premiums.

I was also under the impression that the current lowest monthly rate was 148€, at least in the Techniker NRW, and at current exchange rates, that is about $2500 a year.

If you develop a condition while on a private system, your chances of getting another private insurance with another company are very slim (no one in their right mind would take on someone with an expensive pre-existing condition), but your current insurer has to keep you, unless you hid the condition form them prior to signing the contract.

Or you could change into the Basic Scheme (Basistarif) of any private for-profit insurer (the insurers are forced to offer this scheme — same coverage as the public system, max premiums = the max premiums of the public system, no exceptions due to preexisting conditions).

There is a form of super COBRA that does kick in for the long term unemployed

I don’t know what COBRA entails, but recipients of welfare (ALG II aka Harz IV) continue to be members of (what you termed) the “public insurance companies” (Gesetzliche Krankenkassen = GKK) in which they were members before. The local government (which is responsable for welfare) pays a standard premium of 125 Euro into the GKK. So they keep the exact same insurance as before.

It the welfare recipient was a customer of a private insurer, she or he can choose either to keep the private coverage (in which case she or he receives up to 140 Euro allowance — not sufficient for most private schemes) or to change into the public system (GKK).

The employer does not provide health insurance for employees. The employee chooses which of the public insurance companies (over 100) they want to be in (Or they can be in a much better service private system if they earn more than $70k a year) and the employer pays HALF (No more, no less) of their premiums, and those premiums are fixed at about 15% of Gross wages, with a minimum of about $2400 and a maximum of about $10000 a year…if your wages are above $70k your premium maxes out at $10,000 a year, of which you pay $5000 and your employer pays $5000. If you are above $70k and choose the private system, your employer will cover half the costs up to a maximum of $5000 a year. You can choose cadillac, mercedes, or even maybach private insurance if you want, but if it costs more than $10k a year, your employer contribution will only be $5k.

For self employed people they have to go the private route, or pay the max on the public route, paying their total premiums themselves.

The employee chooses their own health insurance, and can switch. all have similar premiums, when the current rate si 15%, the range between the varous ones is 14.6-15.4%.

If you choose to go into the private system, you cannot go back intot he public system, without a prolonged drop in salary below the threshold, so once you opt out you are out.

If you develop a condition while on a private system, your chances of getting another private insurance with another company are very slim (no one in their right mind would take on someone with an expensive pre-existing condition), but your current insurer has to keep you, unless you hid the condition form them prior to signing the contract.

There is a form of super COBRA that does kick in for the long term unemployed, but remember there is a general long term trend of unemployment around 10% in Germany.

I am not trying to suggest that the Screaming Meemies actually have any effect on the debate, which, as you pointed out, has been poisoned by politics and this vague idea of “what is achievable” from the beginning.

However, my point is that the anti crowd could easily get ginned up over any perceived “government intrusion” such as some agency telling them they HAVE to have insurance. This, I believe, will be the fatal flaw should the Senate version of the bill get passed without major reconstruction. And, as I pointed out, there is a long tradition in America of large swathes of the country being completely averse to anything they perceive as “intrusion”. Logical? Of course not. Deeply held belief system? You bet.

In any case, the discussion is a moot point, because we all know we’re not going to get anything like REAL REFORM. We’re going to get what our Masters allow us to get.

Somewhat OT, but “Remote Area Medical”, the group that provides charity care both in the US and aboad, is planning an outreach event in DC for early this year. Stay tuned for coverage on that. Might actually turn the debate around for our Lords and Ladies to see thousands of folks lining up for care. And many of them will have insurance not unlike the crap they’re mandating: no dental, and high deductibles and copays, making it virtually worthless and making them clients of a charity that actually started work in the Third World.

I do not get into pissing contests with skunks…..You have much to lesrn…keep believing in fantasies. I am sure your legislators have your best interests in heart and mind when they vote against people like yourself.

Like, I said, keep dreaming on there pal!