Bullseye, thanks Jon!

Great Post Jon!

This HCR bill does not sound like HOPE people can believe IN.

Your post proves beyond a shadow of doubt that the USA govt has been hijacked by special interest.

It proves beyond a shadow of doubt that Obama is not a progressive and hates progressive ideas.

What progressive or conservative would force such a bill on the middle class of america.

I know doctors and all of them say the same thing the USA has a DISEASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM, we do not have a health care system.

The american people are being hoodwink, hope a dope, by the words HEALTH CARE BILL. A few people know that this is an insurance profit bill.

The elites are using neat little words to fool the masses of the USA. For example we call the war in IRAQ “Operation Iraqi Liberation (O.I.L.).”

Bush use to say the words NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND, and guess what happen all the USA students got left behind.

Progressives and Conservatives need to wake up and tell their friends, their nation has been taken over by some insane people.

What is the difference between Obama and Bush? I do not know.

to quote SP.thanks but no thanx

A real old school Democrat, not some triangulating power whore, would rant and rage against this round the clock from his preferential presidential perch.

That is the least the Obamapologists should agree should be done by this President.

Excellent post.

Man, I turn 65 in 402 days. Medicare for me. Just stay well ’til then.

You are a lucky person to be entering single payer health care.

Kill the Senate bill!

Even when state insurance regulators want to go after predatory insurance companies, as California did with Blue Cross, they often have to admit they are ‘outgunned’ and cannot collect on fees and damages awarded. Millions of dollars in penalties go uncollected this way: insurers simply don’t pay, and states lack the resources to force them.

So all that wingnut, teabagger nonsense about the big liberal government taking over our lives, spending our money for us…turns… out… to..be..true.

This forced buying of private insurance will be the huge recruiting poster for the republicans’ get out the vote action.

What. are.. they.. thinking?

I know it. It ain’t perfect, but it works well. I served two tenures as a Medicare QIO analyst, and have served as my parents’ POA and legal guardian since 2004, so I know quite well how well it works overall.

I finally quit blogging about this issue back in November. I see nothing yet to allay my concerns.

Copy that. It ought to be obvious that state regulators are no enforcement match for national/multinational corporations.

Nothin’ wrong with the U.S. medical insurance industry that a little “enforcement” won’t fix. Thanks O.

I agree – if the Senate Bill is the “final compromise bill” – then Dean is correct and it should be killed.

Rockefeller wanted 90% of our premiums to be used for claims – and it got Nelson’d to 80%. He wanted end of exemption from monopoly rules for ins co’s – and it got Nelson’d. Nelson is a former ins co exec (full disclosure – so am I – I’s a retired actuary). Nelson must be told he can not hold this bill hostage to every ins co wet dream – heck – they are getting a $600 billion welfare check from the subsidies as it is. The Vermont rules on permitted price differences when dealing with “higher risk” persons allow a small fraction of what is permitted in this bill – what is the point of can’t deny issue of policy for pre-existing conditions if they can move your premium from – in later ages – $15,000, to $60,000 per year. The mandate can not be allowed to stay in the bill – it should be replaced with a claims pooling with a subsidy from the gov if claims are too high causing the claims to premium ratio to exceed 90%.

Other than massive spending – which is just the Medicaid expansion – there is little good in this bill. If necessary, strip it down to the Medicaid expansion and the pointless “Nelson’d” insurance rules and kill all ins premium subsidies until tight regulation is agreed to by the insurance companies – or never. Indeed the Medicaid expansion plus the Nelson “rules” can be called the Obama health reform – and we can all go home.

and again I’ll say…

ONLY Nancy Pelosi has provided anything even RESEMBLING leadership on this.

This Senate bill will force you to buy insurance from only private insurance companies. It will use the power of the federal government in the form of the IRS to make sure you buy private health insurance

This is truly despicable. And it is something the progressive left and the libertarian right can clasp hands regarding.

You put someone in a position where they have to choose between buying health insurance…or clothes for their kids, or a birthday or a Christmas present, or a trip to the beach, or gas money to visit grandma.

In no other civilized and democratic nation around the globe is this sort of thing tolerated—let alone sponsered by the so-called “liberals”.

And I recently read that these “liberals” are about to fuse the Senate and the House versions “informally”. They assure us it is to prevent the Republicans from gumming up the “provcess” again.

Oh, but I suspect there are other reasons too.

Ever heard of “Regulatory Capture” dude? The Ins. Industry are masters of this tactic so you can forget about any meaningful enforcement from the States or the Feds. The Feds. will for sure enforce the fascistic individual mandate though, that u can bet on!

dude-ette to you buster

I don’t support either the House or Senate version…. at. all.

reject triangulation.

The “Forced mandate” is little more then Extortion. This isn’t Change we can believe in! Its fascism or Corporatism. Whats the next product or service these pricks will decide we have to buy or else? It appears that a majority of our elected officials either have never read the Constitution or they are really nothing more then Waldoes for the Big Corps. that have funded their campaigns. Whatever they are this bill if it passes with this policy will come back to haunt the Dems. for a very long time.

sldin grandma in there huh???

Yep. Known about regulatory capture since I studied it in school in the 1970s. Just watchin’ how much better they’ve gotten at it as time has gone on.

dude-ette !!

Looks like the next Real Estate boom will be in Low Security Federal Prisons.

Its just part of their business expenses. They buy and employee Congresscritters and their staffs like we buy groceries.

vil⋅lein  /ˈvɪlən, -eɪn, vɪˈleɪn/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [vil-uhn, -eyn, vi-leyn]

–noun a member of a class of partially free persons under the feudal system, who were serfs with respect to their lord but had the rights and privileges of freemen with respect to others.

We are villeins now, at the mercy of our villainous,unmerciful overlord,the IRS.

Debtors prisons are going to make a BIG come back once were all forced to buy these over priced crappy policies.

eCAHN, not me! :) She’s my horse if she never wins a race!

Pick a state, any state; the sleaziest politician there will probably be either the insurance commissioner or the corporation commissioner.

John Oxendine, Georgia!

http://media.photobucket.com/image/John%20Oxendine/dell_maddux/oxendineforsale.jpg

Paying taxes is one thing, but being forced to pay some Private party for a service or product? Thats extortion by definition.

It’s a feature, not a bug.

it’s extortion by crackky!

What is the feminine of ‘dude’ anyway? Is there one with a similar, oh, friendly with an edge, or not so friendly, you choose.

Why shouldn’t we be forced to buy insurance? The insurance companies were forced to buy America!

I believe “babe” is the feminine equivalent of “dude”.

The only hope is that the democrats use reconciliation to expand medicare.If not, then we have to get together nation wide and get progressives to step up and go after the job.We need to let them know we are willing to support them.It is about the country,not the parties.

What we are seeing is the construction of a new “social contract,” the open codification of a new relationship between the individual and the state, in which all powers and rights reside solely in the latter, which can bestow them or withhold them at will, arbitrarily, unaccountable. In contrast, it is the individual who must be totally accountable to the state. The state is bound by no law, but the individual is subject to them all — including “secret laws” and decrees and executive orders of which he or she has no knowledge

Update on our Brave New Slavery, Chris Floyd , Empire Burlesque

And, of course, there are rumblings (mostly on the right) regarding a Constitutionality challenge.

Update on Our Brave New Slavery: Yes, It Applies to American …Dec 30, 2009 … Update on Our Brave New Slavery: Yes, It Applies to American Citizens, … could reintroduce the principle of slavery and get away with it. …
http://www.chris-floyd.com/…news/1893-update-on-our-brave-new-slavery-yes-it-applies-to-american-citizens-too.html?…source... – Cached

Chick.

???

Yeah, that’s probably it.

Sam Stein at HuffPo:

Both chambers of Congress will skip a formal “conference committee” and instead negotiate informally on their respective health care bills, confirm Congressional aides and sources outside of government…

…The basis for negotiations will be the Senate bill (which lacks a public option for insurance coverage and contains a tax on expensive health care plans)…

They will probably do this in private too. While Stein notes that

The goal, in the end, is to expedite the congressional process by keeping it removed from Republican procedural shenanigans. By skipping a formal conference committee, for example, Democrats can avoid dealing with motions to recommit on contentious issues (whether they be Medicare cuts, late-life consultation, abortion or anything else). This, in turn, provides a narrower window for the GOP to turn the bill into a series of wedge issues and means that there is less of a potential for moderate and conservative Democrats to grow skittish about supporting the legislation.

Probably also serve to keep us all in the dark until the dastardly deed is done.

ok, now how about someone(s) offering up an outline of the 21 Century American Revolution?

Here.

“To think that we can save the Constitution without God’s help when the government of the United States is corrupt is absurdity,” he said. “We are in America’s second Revolutionary War to save our freedom, which we paid for with blood. We need God’s help and I’m not ashamed to ask for it.”

Ron Christie arguing against himself with David Schuster when the conversation turned to Rush Limbaugh’s medical care. First he says that Hawaii Care is fine because it’s the state doing it, not “the government.” [hmmm, just what does he think a "state" is?]

Then he says people should be able to cross state lines to buy their health insurance.

Section 1555 of Senate Bill — page 367

Health Insurers Opt Out Provision

SEC. 1555. FREEDOM NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN FEDERAL
8 HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAMS.
9 No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or
10 health insurance issuer offering group or individual health
11 insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any
12 Federal health insurance program created under this Act
13 (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal
14 health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any
15 such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine
16 imposed upon any such issuer for choosing not to participate in such programs.

So what’s the surprise? The government today is merely an arm of private corporations. The individual is nothing but a “mark.”

This is far more insidious than it first appears. Consider the process. The bill is signed into law. Class action suits are filed and find them in front of SCOTUS. SCOTUS, as it is presently comprised, will not support individual rights over corporate rights and will thereby institutionalize corporate control over the other two bodies of US government. There will be no recourse short of a complete takeover of Congress who will not allow this to go on.

In 1905, we had similar if not worse conditions in Congress to which Teddy Roosevelt strongly moved to change. Child labor laws, the US Senate changed from appointment to general elections are two items that come to mind.

In the Senate was a senator from Montana, William Clark. He epitomizes the nature of today’s Senate, sans appointments.

(Timothy Egan “The Big Burn pp39)

What it took was a president that said NO! in no uncertain terms, and a big does of creativity in pushing his agenda through before leaving office.

We don’t have that now, so God help us all…..

So, if it passes like that what ya gonna do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bygu4H2397M&feature=related

Fuck you I won’t do what you tell me.

…continuing:

This is not about heath insurance, health care at all. It’s the process by which we are stripped of all recourse which Americans have enjoyed since adopting the US Constitution.

Lord Blankfein has been doing God’s work already, keep his psycho killer deity out of this, hokay?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dudette

The premier authority on ?’s of the vernacular.

que la chinga qlc/wtf

Jon… if you’re still here… I read an article in the local paper yesterday that said mandates are only required if you have employer insurance, Medicare or Medicaid.

Isn’t that a complete lie?

I thought all Americans would be mandated to have insurance coverage… pls let me know which is correct.

Thanks so much for your EXCELLENT COVERAGE of this issue… your appearance on DN last week was amazing… again, I hope you get on some other shows, like KO and RM.

Can someone point me to a link that shows that the senate has put enforcement on a state level? A friend keeps insisting that if the feds make the law HHS must enforce it.

Then he says people should be able to cross state lines to buy their health insurance.

While simultaneously saying, I’m sure, that people should NOT be able to cross country lines to buy their prescription drugs.

Funny that.

I think there is no mechanism for enforcement at all. Unlike the mandates, which the IRS is specifically authorized to deal with.

How would the HHS enforce it? How would they levy fines without congressional authorization? If that were the case, that language would be included.

We need to figure out how to reinstate an actual filibuster, instead of “cloture.” Make them old sons of bitches stand in the Senate day after day after day and read from the bible, or the phone book, or the want ads etc etc etc. We’ll see how long they last…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JSBhI_0at0

Looking forward to voting against every bullshit dem in business attire I can find. See ya, punks.

Don’t expect to have that help again. When it requires the resources and level of top-line profit of a large corporation to get elected to the Presidency, just what else but a corporation could get elected to the Presidency?

Clearly the profit and the resources are presently being hoovered away from us and transferred into the hands of the haves. If we don’t overturn the party duopoly/media/financial trinity now, the chances of doing so later are rather grim. Ten months to take a good bite out of any one of these legs. The other two will follow the first down.

When (and how) do we start?

That’s only because, as a boy, my family often couldn’t afford the trip to see relatives. Something I suspect Obama, Emanuel and all the rest of these “liberal” crooks and liars have absolutely no comprehension of whatsoever.

Yes
And make running for office either free or affordable by those who actually work for a living—these pimps in fancy schmatas can be put where they belong, a boat on the river Styx.

There are five rivers that separate Hades from the world of the living, they are:

1. Acheron – the river of woe;
2. Cocytus – the river of lamentation;
3. Phlegethon – the river of fire;
4. Lethe – the river of forgetfulness;
5. Styx – the river of hate.

And no, I am not filled with this hate, just disgust at the smell of the living dead.

New party, the No Bullshit Party. Only one member so far, wanna make it two?

The Senate bill does not create social contract guaranteeing quality, affordable health care for everyone in exchange for mandating the buying of health insurance. It just forces people to buy a poor-quality product from an extremely wasteful, predatory, and poorly regulated industry.

yet, until very recently, the Party Line at (D) captured progressive blogs called for support of the bill, and squelching of the point of view of Kill the Bill, and that uninvited party crasher, Single Payer.

so, welcome to the desert of the real – that Mandate has been in there all along – we’ve been yelling about it since July, at least.

Yes, it is revulsion. They talk a ‘nice-nice’ dem line, but all they are is mewling yesmen and women. Then the little cowards come out and try to spin up an excuse, truly nauseating.

I agree with your analysis except that Big Insurance is the Overlord. The IRS is his strongman. The IRS now works as the Inforcer for Big Insurance. Our entire nation is now the private estate of Big Insurance.

Yea, Barry didn’t even change the color of the Oval office rug or ask for another desk he was happy with almost everything BV$H left , including his Defense Sect. wars, and most of the rest of the Goper policies. I guess now he so hard up to be a true Bi-Partisan Pres., he’s actively helping the Gopers take back Congress.

Most of us (at least I did) realized the mandate was there all along, but a mandate with a public option isn’t nearly as offensive, since you have the option of giving your money to the government rather than the corporations with a CEO that gets bonuses of millions for denying care.

The mandate is a funny thing. I’m quite sure from strictly a policy perspective, it’s a good thing. After all, spreading the risk to as a great a pool as possible in theory lowers the costs for all. However, I’ve always felt it was unconstitutional (and still hold out hope that it will be ruled that way), which is why I opposed it. I mean IMO it would be good policy if Obama signed an executive order creating and funding Single Payer, but I’d oppose that too as it would be unconstitutional.

I have no idea why I cling to that document. Our politicians in Washington (from BOTH parties) don’t seem to give a shit about it. It has many weaknesses IMO (the electoral college is just crap), but I think overall the way it was supposed to enshrine individual rights by limiting the power of government to some degree was (and is) a worthy goal. Too bad most Americans disagree with that. Shame actually.

Strikes me that we do indeed have three parties. The Third Way is the informal ruling party of the US. It’s special purpose is to protect the interests of the multinationals, and it thrives equally well, no matter which of the two official parties is actually in power.

You can ‘Bank’ this one.

Federal force: mandate nonprofit health care option and cap profits that corrupt and enslave Americans

That sounds like a reasonable compromise, which is reason enough for it never to be considered by the likes of our Congress. In the interest of allowing insurers’ (and, worse, pharmaceutical companies’) blind greed to make their products unaffordable and therefore vulnerable to real regulation (like that to which utilities or insurers in Germany, Holland and Switzerland are subject), less reform is most certainly more reform at this point.

I second your outright rejection of both the House and Senate bills. Look, why are we not demanding single payer still? Sure, they are not going to give it to us, but shouldn’t we be arguing for the best bill possible, instead of giving credibility to either the house or senate bill, both of which are horrific for different reasons.

?