We thought Bernie Sanders would be a Senator with more bite than bark on health care reform.
The self-proclaimed socialist from Vermont nearly exploded on the Senate floor last week as Republican Senator Tom Coburn forced a reading of his 700-odd page Single Payer amendment, effectively killing its chances of inclusion in the bill. As he stood there, shouting a laundry list of harrowing statistics regarding the state of America’s health care system, we thought he recognized the imperative of bringing sustainable coverage to a growing number of vulnerable Americans.
So why is he going to support the Senate bill, which promises so much less? A great deal of voices have made it clear that they’ve bought the prevailing argument: “any bill is better than no bill at all– it should be passed and built upon later.”
That would be fine if the bill at least addressed the insurance industry’s strangle hold on the American people. The fact is, as Jane and the rest of the FDL team have shown us time and time again, there’s just too much wrong with this bill to make it a viable starting place for reform.
Jon Odum from Green Mountain Daily, together with Jane and FDL, sent this e-mail to Vermonters yesterday:
The Senate is trying to force a dangerous health care bill to passage by Christmas. Some of our strongest allies — statesmen who touted the progressive line aggressively at first — have definitively turned their backs on us. Bernie Sanders is the latest “progressive” to fall in line as a supporter.”
This pressure from Vermonters is key to helping Bernie see the light.
Vermonters, you continue to put Senator Sanders in office to cast tough votes in favor of your progressive values and convictions. Considering that Senator Sanders will move to support this ugly piece of legislation, you’ve got to wonder if he’s doing the job you hired him to do.
And Sanders knows he’s screwing up. To help the good people of Vermont stomach the bitter medicine of this Senate bill, Sanders secured additional health care funding to establish dozens of clinics across the state. According to a press release from Dec. 19th, these clinics would be “open to everyone, [...] care for patients covered by Medicaid, Medicare and private insurance as well as those who have no insurance.”
While this is of undeniable value to the people of Vermont, it’s no excuse for supporting this legislative monstrosity. Sanders needs to spend less time trying to cover up his mistakes with pork for Vermonters and invest his energy in fighting for true reform that will reach all Americans instead.
We want to let Senator Sanders know that he’s headed down a path with ramifications so serious that can threaten his seat.
Vermonters know that Sanders considered himself somewhat of a foil to “centrist” former Governor Howard Dean. For those of you who voted for him with this in mind, does it make you uneasy that Sanders now supports the bill while Dean opposes it? If Sanders really wanted to bring accessible, affordable health care to the millions of Americans who are currently without, why would he support a bill that forces those same Americans to purchase expensive health insurance from private companies or face penalties from the IRS?
Our friends at PCCC have kept attention on Bernie to pressure him to do what’s right for health care. This additional heat from Vermonters can really help. As our partner John Odum wrote at Green Mountain Daily when this email first went out: “Some serious Bernie pushback today. Guess we’re hittin’ a nerve.”
Vermonters gave Sanders his seat so that he’d stand up for the progressive values of his constituents. Don’t let him get away with compromising those values and succumbing to the pressures of the Senate.



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Only Bernie Sanders? Are you going to go after Feingold and Franken too?
Franken is obviously the most vulnerable. I’d put my eggs in that basket.
The reason? We need progressive voices like Norm Coleman back in the Senate. If we had more Senators like Coleman, not only would a strong public option be in the bill, but there would even be a shot at single-payer.
We need real health care reform. Sign my petition:
Coleman 2014.
And while we’re at it: Lazio 2010.
Who’s with me?
Sanders secured funding to establish clinics across the country, not just in Vermont. Howard Dean also now endorses this bill, albeit reluctantly. Sorry, but if you’re going to go after one of the few good guys in the Senate, lets at least try not to be misleading about what he’s doing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMVTPY4Kek0
This is another example of why I can’t bring myself to waste my time on this site, which I used to find useful.Any one from the left who attacks such reliable congresscritters as Bernie Saunders,Russ Feingold, et al has lost his or her grip on reality and has nothing useful to say. The thought of wading through 800 such comments is more than any sane person can stand. I make these remarks despite the fact that I am to the left of both these fine public servants.
As a supporter of Senator Sanders from CA, I too am disappointed in Senator Sanders. BUT ONLY because he didn’t hold out for more. Community Health Centers ARE a way around the insurance companies BUT don’t address the underlying issue and that is the wholesale privatization of ‘healthcare’.
And the issue of “privatization” extends all across our “commons“.
Share your perspectives with Senator Sanders but don’t berate him for dealing with the corruption of our government in the best way he could figure out. Just look at the legislation he has introduced and how many co-sponsors he’s been able to ‘get onboard’.
All it takes is one Senator, gang. Just one and the 60 votes needed isn’t there.
So we lean on a Senator who’s had reservations about this bill because it clearly doesn’t match their values.
This isn’t a slam on Sanders, no admonishment against his work to salvage this bill, but he’s got the power to change this entire dynamic by putting on the breaks.
Misplaced outrage. Bernie is one of the best we have and to attack him for voting for this bill is just plain stupid.
He doesn’t have much leverage, any major concession to Bernie/progressives and you instantly lose 4-5 blue dogs who really have no interest in reform and would be glad to see the bill die. If the bill dies with the amount of political capital already expended, realistically how many years/decades before anyone dares to touch health care reform again?
I’m no expert, but to me the best chance to get a public option or medicare expansion would be to go straight to reconciliation with another bill, after passing the current one.
Bernie can be bought n sold just like the other 60, the people that support him on this are just clinging onto the last progressive they thought was left.
Sanders changed his tune by the day on all the talk shows depending on what was in it for him.
Just watch all his spots on the Ed show from the last month.
the delusion in this website gets sillier by the day
Thank you Brian and Vermonters.
I can’t imagine how upset i would be if I had a senator like Bernie who voted for this bill.
The $15 BILLION that Sanders got into the Senate monstrosity to establish community health care centers — which are actually a type of national health care — is just about the best thing in the Senate bill. Maybe the only really good thing in it. Those health care centers will be built in every state. They can become the nucleus for real health care reform.
That’s why Howard Dean has changed his tune.
What’s the point in calling yourself a Socialist if you’re going to vote for this corporate giveaway? If there is one senator (and that’s all we need, really) who I thought who stand athwart the rest and make them change this bill, it’s Bernie Sanders. Good for Vermonters for standing up and asking him to be true to his values — the ones he was elected on.
So I have to ask, what brings you back each day to add your contributions to our conversations?
bullshit. if thats a bribe then its a pathetic one. “national health care” my ass. they will be cut off at the knees next year when budget time comes around. in any case 15 billion for a handful of band aid clinics that provide the kind of “health care” you can buy in CVS, or Wal mart for 25 dollars is an insult. 15 Billion for for a 15 trillion dollar problem. 15 billion for us, 1 trillion for the health insurance racket. no thanks.
Concern Trolls abound. Is there not one Senator with Principles? If not Bernie Sanders, then who? The bill is written by lobbyists and Joe Lieberman as a gift to big insurance at the expense of the public.
The middle class will be forced to buy high deductible insurance with poor “coverage” and exorbitant copays. The “insurance” will have little if any practical usefulness and initially high premiums guaranteed to increase over time. Where are the jobs so that Joe Sixpack can pay for this insurance? China?
The bill also guarantees increased Drug costs. No reimportation.
It’s sad to see the bloggers on this site imposing their own purity tests.
Bernie Sanders? LOSE his seat.
Jump meat SHARK
Damn what have you all been drinking and smoking, I want some for the next orgy I participate in
$15 billion worth of clinics aren’t nearly enough to unfuck the hundreds of billions of dollars worth of fucking up that this bill is going to inflict on the American people. Perhaps Sanders thinks he’s made the best of a bad situation by leveraging his vote this way, but he could at least come out and say that instead of trying to insinuate that these clinics somehow negate everything that’s bad about this bill.
LOL. we will see. in any case im sure captain change and corporate league arent finding the collapse of thier base of support “silly”. “Terrifying” maybe, “Infuriating” definately” “depressing” likely, but i doubt “silly”
Signed, Tweeted and Facebooked.
We sure have acquired a lot of people who are clueless (or at least ignorant), in the last couple of weeks.
Before y’all open your mouths and prove you know very little, read for a while, so you find out what really goes on here and how people behave.
they are migrating from KOS and other veal pens cause we’re so “silly” and irrelevant over here. This is the last thing i have to say to or about the DLC blogger/trolls. if they are commenting they have to be reading. maybe they will gain some better understanding, even if they wont admit it to anyone else.
OK
It’s not a matter of attack. If we let electeds know how we feel, they will understand that someone has their backs. That we will stand with them. Bernie is a good guy and I hope he will hold his ground re this.
If Sanders secures $14 billion in funding for clinics and the right for states to establish single payer systems, will you still feel this way about him? Will you still feel the same way about the bill? (That’s to anyone who’s currently solidly against the bill)
Wow, I smell clown shoes.
I don’t get it. Why is it that the Blue Dogs stand on principle and are
able to gut the bill? But someone like Bernie Sanders who has given so
many impassioned speeches about the need for single payer universal health
care thinks this stinking bill is okay to vote for. He’s part of the
problem on health care reform just like Obama.
Where’s MaryMc when you need her?
Everyone is saying there are 45 million people without health care, but the best any of them have come up with only covers 30 million. Who are the 15 million they’re all so determined to jack? What’s the deal? “I can’t win unless somebody loses?”
For all of those defending Sanders and supporting his vote for cloture, I have to ask this: If he refused to vote for cloture at this time and demanded even more concessions for his vote, would it not improve our chances for a better bill? It is the Democratic leadership and the White House that need a bill and they need it yesterday. Bernie and other progressives have sold out too quickly and too cheaply. I believe that is the gist of our criticism. I don’t know what else the progressives could get, but I feel like they would pick up significant additional concessions. Until we get progressive senators and congressmen that are more loyal to liberal values than they are to the Democratic Party, we will not get sufficiently liberal legislation. It is time the hammer fell on Bernie, Feingold, Franken and other “progressives” to force them to drive better bargains.
If you’ve reached the point where you’re accusing Bernie Sanders of being part of the problem on health care, you’ve absolutely lost it.
And speaking of single payer, does that mean Jane is part of the problem?
She’s hasn’t exactly been out on the barricades these days fighting for single payer.
Did she compromise? Did she actually acknowledge a political reality?
Off with her head!!! She’s not pure enough to meet the standards of anyone who really knows what has to be done.
The Bill essentially enriches and enlarges a corrupt, deadly system at the further expense of the working class. There is no counter-balance in Sanders’ pork, nor any other amendment. There can’t be unless the system is fundamentally overturned.
Also, while not a health insurance scholar, I don’t know of any Federal law that currently prohibits states from instituting a single-payer arrangement. That wouldn’t be a plum at all.
There’s a serious timing problem here. I feel lucky that I got in an opinion to Barbara Boxer before tomorrow morning’s vote. How much pressure can we expect Bernie to get over the next twelve hours?
absolutely perfect!
Not much, the cloture vote is lost. What is most distasteful is that the fix is already in for passage of the Senate Bill and probably the conference bill, which will look very similar to the senate bill. But then, the corporate media told us this back in August anyway. Why don’t we just grow up and accept what our corporate masters will allow us? It is incredible how good our captors are at continuing the myth that democracy exists in the USA. The fact that it doesn’t has been brought to a head and exposed perfectly by the HCR fiasco.
No leverage?! He has ABSOLUTE leverage. If he said “NO” then the bill would be totally beyond passing. He has JUST as much leverage as does Nelson or Lieberman. ANY single progressive senator (Franken, I’m talking to you asshole) has total leverage.
ONE senator saying “NO” is all it would take to kill the bill in its present form.
Why is it only the crazy-assed wingers that have magic leverage but a progressive with EXACTLY the same power must NOT use that power…ever?
He and ALL so-called “progressive” senators are part of the problem.
Sorry, that is objective fact.
They ALWAYS vote “YES” on cloture votes, be it a judicial nominee that is unacceptable or a totally unacceptable cabinet pick or a horrendous healthcare bill, and then think they can take credit for voting “no” on the floor vote after it is a foregone conclusion to pass but ONLY because they voted “YES” on cloture.
THEY CAVE EVERY TIME WITH THE YES ON CLOTURE VOTE! Their floor vote is always irrelevant and is worthless.
What would it take for you to EVER stand up for ANY principal? Hmmmm? Anything? Is there ANY line that mustn’t be crossed for your fall-down and take-it-in-the-ass reps?
All they have to do is shrug, say, “Oh well, at least I voted ‘no’ on the floor AFTER I made sure the bill would pass by voting ‘YES’ on cloture”, and you fall in love with them all over again. You are no different than a battered spouse. You take beating after beating but still all it takes is “sorry” from your rep and you are all in love again.
Hey genius, the cloture vote is the ONLY vote that ever matters on these issues. The floor vote after that is pure dog-and-pony useless.
I thought Lambert couldn’t be topped for delusional, petulant douchebaggery. I was wrong.
We will have to have a plan, then, for the elections and for bringing up this issue again in 2011. No time like the present to start planning!
so you know, the email went to activists 36 hours ago. post just took a while to get up here.
it is why people lurk here. Being vicious without facts abounds
So let me get this straight: Jane joins forces with Grover Norquist and the Teabaggers, and Bernie Sanders – the only Socialist in the US Senate – is the bad guy?
What planet are you on?
Merits of the bill aside, community health centers are NOT “pork”. Across the country 20% of people living below the poverty level rely on them for primary health care.
I’m sharpening my pitchfork right now. Volunteers of America arise!
Unfortunately, it is the planet you inhabit earthling. You might want to take a look at Germany in the 1930s to see how otherwise reasonable and compassionate people enabled the faschist movement to capture a state government and its societal framework. Acquiesence can be as much a sin as willful corruption. Aren’t you getting just a little tired of progressive congressmen caving to the will of the corporate Democrats?
The diarist’s knee-jerk reaction in going after a truly honorable, brave man is pretty damn despicable. Let me tell you what the writer missed via The Nation:
There has also been little news coverage of Sanders’ fight to allow states waivers so they can move forward with their own “health insurance concepts, including single-payer.” Such language is now in the Senate bill and Sanders is still working with Senator Ron Wyden to strengthen it. That is exactly how Canada developed its healthcare system, with a successful program incubated in Saskatchewan. This provision is actually stronger in the Senate bill–it didn’t make it into the House version.
“It’s still in play,” Sanders says.
There’s been a miniscule amount of reporting on this valiant effort by Sanders. While I think this bill is a potential disaster in the making for real healthcare reform in this country and for the Democrats’ chances in the next two election cycles (it may be their Waterloo), Senator Sanders has been forced to make a Sophie’s Choice and is moving heaven and earth to find a way to creatively and intelligently get us the reform we truly need. Put blame directly where need—Straight on Obama’s shoulders. I used to call him the ‘Bait and Switch” candidate, even though I voted for him. He’s proven more than worthy of that title.
Brian:
Why don’t you update your piece to reflect that Dean is now supporting the bill? Too busy in your FDL Health Care War Room plotting his electoral defeat… uh… wait… we can’t do that…. his… uh… evisceration on Fox & Friends?
And what an absolutely pathetic snow job on the “dozens of clinics,” in Vermont. If you had an ounce of intellectual integrity, you’d spell out for your readers that the funding, according to Bernie’s own press release — which you cite — will help 25 million low-income people get health care. Last I checked, that’s more than FORTY TIMES the population of Vermont.
Here’s what you wrote on the subject of the clinics:
And Sanders knows he’s screwing up. To help the good people of Vermont stomach the bitter medicine of this Senate bill, Sanders secured additional health care funding to establish dozens of clinics across the state.
Dozens in Vermont? Do you think people are that stupid? Here’s the part of Bernie’s press release on that subject:
In Vermont, eight health centers and 40 satellite offices provide primary health care to more than 100,000 patients regardless of their ability to pay. Sanders said that with the additional health care funding it was very likely that new centers would be established in Addison County, Bennington County and perhaps Windham County.
That makes… uh… 3. Which is… uh… about dozens short of “dozens across the state.”
Is this what FDL is reduced to?
Pitiful.
FDL is a wild place these days. All the Democrats are to be brought down for lack of purity. After all, it would be far better to bring more Republicans to power since they would obviously be better at delivering health care for all.
Perhaps this view is joined by the old-fashioned left idea of sharpening contradictions of capitalism, so that things get so bad that the “true left” will rise to power. Good luck on that, guys. It’s fine as long as you ignore, um, American history,and don’t mind the trail of bodies created by overlooking the harm done to real people.
By the way, when is FDL going to notice that Obama is delivering the largest expansion of a public plan, Medicaid, since LBJ? Or does that not fit the storyline?
Of course it doesn’t. And there’s no room for wussy nuance (as Bush proved in his oh so successful presidency). So it’s off with all their heads!
Fuck. Yes. About goddam time, is there one for Franken, Weiner, and Feingold???
This is foolishness at it worst. Why go after Bernie Sanders at all. Did you send a letter to Nelson,Lincoln,Nelson or the worst of all Liberman who a turncoat at best. The fight is in the House to get the items we want to get into the Heathcare Bill period. It seems to me the majority of the progressives in the House are ones who will change the bill or it will go down to defeat period. By the way Obama lied about his not supporting the public option what about that.
This is really getting into wackadoodle territory.
cbsunglass:You might want to take a look at Germany in the 1930s to see how otherwise reasonable and compassionate people enabled the faschist movement to capture a state government and its societal framework.
Bernie Sanders is now being accused of fomenting Nazism.
That’s always the signal of the truly desperate: start comparing people to Nazis. Then again, it’s not the first time a Jew has been accused of being a Nazi on these pages. It is FDL after all.
See 52. And if you’re going to accuse someone of being a fascist, at the very least, learn to spell it.
Ridiculous. Bernie Sanders is our most progressive senator. He doesn’t agree with YOU, Brian, so YOu want us to vote him out of office.
Yeah.
Grow up.
I oppose this bill but attacking Bernie Sanders is obscene and shameful.
I wonder if you realize what the rights of conscience inalienable mean.
“self-proclaimed socialist from Vermont” You have got to be kidding?
This is a sad day for FDL, sad very sad. The ends do not justify the means.
Haven’t you heard?
Some of them haven’t got time to wade through 800 comments. Obviously they haven’t been around long enough to know that sometimes you have to stick your snout in reallllyyyy deep to get to the truffles. I’ve learned quite a bit here reading comments from people with the time and determination to explain things concisely for others.
And as far as fixing this thing after it’s passed, I suggest people get a reality check. The Democrats are going to lose control of at least one house in 2010 and they are definitely going to lose their much-touted, though useless, 60 vote majority in the senate. How exactly will this piece of shit bill then be revisited? By the GOP when they decide to use reconciliation to gut the good parts like they passed Bush’s tax cuts?
I suppose I’ve signed maybe 7 or 9 FDL petitions. Not this one, not on your nelly. This is undoubtedly the absolute stupidest piece of nonsense I’ve ever seen on FDL. From the Comments, I see I’m certainly not alone in this assessment.
From time immemorial, British infantry are drilled: Mark your target. Well you’ve certainly picked a lousy target in going after Bernie Sanders. I sincerely hope you miss.
PS. As a general note: Shotgunning petitions hither-and-yon on every Snit-of-the-Day is getting very, very tiresome. Dial it back, okay?
This is crazy. The fault lies with the commander and chief and the democrats who sold out to the industry. Taking anger out on the person who has been pushing single payer is crazy and exactly what the industry and WH would love. I feel angry at liberals who went gaga over obama to the point that any slight criticism and that person was attacked like a lynch mob.
You have to look at the principles of the person. Obama worship became cultish and that is where the danger lies.
I can’t agree with this. Not at all. Bernie Sanders is working his damndest to get the US real healthcare. Does this bill suck? Yes it does. But it’s a foot in the door. My sister will finally be able to get medical care at a community medical center thanks to Bernie. She hasn’t seen a doctor since she had her last child nine years ago!
For me personally (with my two pre-existing conditions), enough medical bills to declare bankruptcy a second time, this bill will keep me above water and get my husband out of his job lock.
No, we aren’t getting everything we want or need, but we’ve got our foot in the door and they can’t close it. We can use this bill to build on, until we have a strong single-payer system, which I truly believe can be done. If we kill the bill however, we haven’t got a chance.
This bill will save lives. It will expand access. It may not go as far as we like, but do you really want to can something that will have a positive impact?
Rage on about the corrupt industries that prey on ill people, I’m behind you there, but don’t leave people to suffer by killing this bill. Imperfect as it is, it will help people.
A person’s character is determined by what they do, not what they say.
Like a lot of progressives, Bernie confuses arguing with fighting. Arguing is just that, arguing, engaging in a purely verbal sparring match. Fighting involves doing things have produce a concrete result, a win or a loss for one side or the other.
Bernie talks a good game, but as a fighter, on this he’s a zero.
While appreciate the uproar that Jane and others are making about the abandonment of principle by the Democratic leadership, I want to make what will probably be an unpopular point here: the compromise was already made when both Democratic leaders and organizations like FireDogLake got behind the public option in the first place.
You see, the public option, unless it was actually and explicitly FROM THE BEGINNING an on-ramp to single payer, would be non-functional. It was always a chip to be traded because it already concedes too much to the dominant “meme” about healthcare that is not based on reality: that “competition” gets you more efficiency and lower prices. This has never been the case worldwide in healthcare and certainly not in the United States.
Cost control is always about pricing and budgeting which would have been an entirely different discussion:
http://www.annals.org/content/150/7/485.full
With cost control you can get to affordable universal coverage.
Medicare buy-in would have been a compelling middle policy proposal but everybody has sunk their teeth into the largely useless public option…
Unfortunately almost the entire healthcare debate has been a diversion from REAL health care reform.
http://healthcare4us.wordpress.com/
Exactly.
The planet where ONE progressive Senator could have wrung enough changes out of Democratic leadership to make this Senate bill something other that the ICB (Insurance Corp Bailout) that it is. That planet.
This planet. The planet where Democrats need 60 votes, and where progressives are unafraid to risk killing the bill in order to extract concessions that help the American people instead of the Corporatocracy.
That planet.
I just signed up a few days ago with FDL. Betweeen this bullshit petition and the teaming up with Grover Fucking Norquist, I no longer wish to be associated with this site. Thus far, I haven’t found a way to unsubscribe from the site. Can someone please tell me how to do this?
Perhaps it’s time to revisit that question we thought we had settled in 1865…it is painfully obvious that the U.S. has been completely taken over by korporate interests that we did NOT vote for and are UNACCOUNTABLE to We The People.
This is pretty much what was going on in 1773 when our Parliament turned its back on its subjects here in the colonies to suck the dick of the British East India Company.
How is the situation today that much different?
Kwanesum chinuk illahee, baby…Cascadia Forever.
Yeah!
Get rid of all those troublesome progressives in Congress!
But primarying every senator or congressperson who votes for this bill will keep us our majority?
I have been reading and commenting here at FDL since it first went up on Blogspot in 2003. Jane has been one of my all time heroes. But I am not OK with what’s going on these days on FDL. It’s really devastating for someone who has followed FDL for years and has relied on what I’ve read here to help form my opinions. I feel like I’ve lost a good friend. It’s very sad.
I’ved spent the better part of the past week at Firedoglake trying to understand what Jane’s position is in detail. I’ve spent many hours in the comments on any number of posts here this week, and frankly I have been disgusted at what I have witnessed here. The hatred for Obama here is palpable. It is vitriolic. Many of the comments are infantile and dishonest. Many were no different from the kind of thing I’ve seen at FreeRepublic, RedState and the teabagger rallies. Most of them were paranoid and delusional. I am appalled.
Something’s gone terribly wrong here at FDL. What I’ve seen here recently has been neither liberal or progressive, just reactionary. This has become a vulgar and nasty place. Just the kind of place the teabaggers are going to love. In fact, I suspect that since Jane’s campaign to destroy health care reform at any cost, many of them are already here.
Well, I say, let him crash: we don’t need these hidebound reactionaries in the Senate – this unscrupulous man would no doubt filibuster the next big initiative in the Congress: The All Power to the Soviets Act. Let us remove the danger before it’s too late!
Agreed. It seems as though Jane has gone Larry Johnson on us.
You’ve missed my point entirely. I’m not suggesting Bernie Sanders or anyone else expect a single payer bill to pass. What I’m saying is how can Sanders go from advocating for single payer to voting for this bill. This bill will do more harm than good and Sanders should know it. It’s absurd as Bernie likes to say. If so called “political reality” means abandoning all principles to appease corporate interests then we’ve got serious problems in this country.
It’s not that surprising this place has become so vulgar and nasty. Much of Greenwald’s letter section has also devolved into this type of inanity. There are some folks over there (and quite frankly here) who are so overtly ant-semitic it’s beyond vulgar and nasty.
Al Franken is an “asshole,” Bernie Sanders is among many “take-it-in-the-ass reps,” and anyone who disagrees here is compared to a “faschist [sic]” in “Germany in the 1930s,” (oh, what the hell… a Nazi).
These sites are becoming so strident, many people simply tune them out or don’t take them seriously. They preach to a dwindling choir and if anyone dare disagree, they’re demonized like above or even worse. Representative of everyone? Of course not. But there’s also almost no condemnation of those type of remarks from those who agree with their premise. And the fact that this type of virulent crap appears at all on a so-called progressive blog is akin to the canary in a coal mine.
Vulgarity, homophobia and outright demagoguery. Hmmmmm? Where have I seen this before? Can someone pass the Earl Grey?
How can Jane go from supporting single payer to the PO?
Can you now accuse her of “abandoning all principles to appease corporate interests”? After all, the best case scenario would have been single payer. That’s the bar Bernie set.
Or did she compromise in the face of political reality?
Not a difficult question. Answer it.
randomletters, you are right. Sadly, Brian has his facts wrong. The additional $10 billions added to the health bill by Sanders is for the benefit of all states. It would probably add about 2 more of these government managed health clinics in Vermont, but it would add over 1,000 in the entire country. This is the single most important item in the Senate health bill. Bernie should be praised for his work, and Sonenstein should get his facts straight. This is not a good effort on FDL.
I agree. That the facts should be completely distorted by Brian is a sad commentary. This devalues all of the fine work that has been done by FDL. A Vermont style health program for all of America would be great.
There’s a huge difference between supporting a public option run and regulated by a Federal Exchange and supporting the Senate bill. I have not seen Jane advocate in support of the Senate bill. If you think the Senate bill is somehow an acceptable compromise from single payer or a public option then I can’t help you.
Are you F@¤ing kidding me? Sure it’s a bad bill, but you want to spend your time and energy going after one of our very finest and MOST progressive senators?? This is just an astonishingly dumb move from a typically great blog. Sanders has been the most outspoken critic of this bill in the senate. Please stop this and lets spend our energy getting rid of the corporate democrats instead.
No,it’s not an acceptable compromise, but the fight isn’t over, and we’re going to need good Progressives like Bernie Sanders to fight that fight. Going after every Progressive Senator that doesn’t vote no on this bill, and teaming up with the right wing to do it, is not going to get us where we want to go. It’s immature, shortsighted and counterproductive.
No. This is idiotic.
It’s like talking to a wall. I’m not talking about me and I can’t make it any clearer that I’m talking about Jane.
Going by the premise that single payer is the optimal system… did JANE compromise by supporting even the best public option?
And here are Jane’s words on the subject:
“… if we really cared about cutting costs and providing the best health care services, single payer would come out on top by every measure.”
So forget about me. Did Jane compromise those principles by supporting the public option? You seem incapable of answering that simple question.
I’d say it’s because you don’t want to. YOU set the standard at single payer back at 27. Not me.
So defend Jane’s support for even the best public option.
I’m waiting…
I can’t help you man. You obviously do enjoy talking to the wall or putting words in other peoples mouths. I never suggested Jane abandoned her priciples on health care reform. I was simply making a point in response to what you had said about compromise.
The only way things could ever change is if we hold our elected officials accountable for what they do and say. Obama and the Senate think the bill is fine the way it is. I wouldn’t expect any help from progressive Senators at this point.
To me that sounds like a defeatist attitude, and that attitude is a real problem. “Let’s just give up”, is what is being argued here. I haven’t seen to many constructive comments here lately. It’s all just, “everybody sucks, fuck them all, throw them all out”. No one seems to be thinking far enough ahead to realize that Antonin Scalia and Anthony Kennedy will like be gone from the Supreme Court by 2016. The question of who will be there to replace them when they leave, these two ultra-conservative justices, is a very important one. Would you rather have Barack Obama, or some Republican wingnut? Everyone here is ready to primary Obama without thinking through what that means. As I said before, immature and short-sighted.
What’s defeatist about holding our politicians accountable? Many, many encumbents need to go for our system to correct itself and become a viable democracy again. What’s defeatist is trying to hold on to a broken and corrupt status quo hoping that someone like Obama is going to change things.
This is not a good idea. While the community health centers are not an ideal solution to the healthcare problem in this country, they constitute an important alternative structure. They will fill a void. Vermont is not the only state to benefit. All will get more CHCs. IIRC, the actual ratio is going to be something like two CHCs per county. This is a big deal, particularly in areas where there may only be one every other county. And what is more, they will accept anyone needing care, and no one will be turned away for lack of means to pay.
It may be that Sanders read the writing on the wall, that healthcare reform wasn’t going to do much of anything for too many suffering people, and this was a way to ameliorate the pain. It may be only a palliative measure, but it’s needed, and can be implemented now. Again, this is not a good idea. I cannot support this.
The question has to be asked though; why did Sanders and the rest of the progressive senators back down? They have mathematically the exact same power as Lieberman to stop or delay the bill, and can use that the same way as he has, to extract concessions. Why didnt they?
Now, if Sanders got a concession on states rights to go forward with single payer that is significant. Anyone knows more on this? If not, and his only win was the health centers, id say he sold himself pretty cheap, compared to what Lieberman & Co got.
Of course the real bad guys responsible for the health care mess sits in the White House. But whats the harm in also looking at how progressive senators acted? I see a lot of emotional arguments here, that gets us nowhere. Lets look at the facts and discuss the substance of the matter instead of accusing each other of various personal defects.
I never thought the day would come when progressives would no longer have a voice in the governance of this country. Bernie Sanders embaressed himself, the great State of Vermont, and the citizens of this country. Eugene Debs would be spinning in his grave if he knew someone claiming his legacy would sell out so cheaply.
I truly believe that the Republicans will split ranks in the next four years. I think it’s a good oppurtunity for progressives to split ranks with the Democrats. Democrats will not promote and protect progressive ideals. We can sit on the side and say “it’s too difficult to start a third-party or we will split the vote”. We must have a progressive party since the Democrats will never take progressive ideas seriously. They are treating us as Southern Democrats treated Black voters in the 1960′s. We will no longer be a bloc which assures Democratic victories.
“Concern trolls” is the correct term, but I suppose there are some who really can’t understand how B. Sanders betrayed them, or those who are awe-struck by a figure like $10 billion…
As I wrote in a comment at Daily Kos:
I thank Brian, Jon, Jane, and the many here who have stood up against a massive campaign by the corporations and mainstream politicians to sell us yet another piece of horseshit. Whether its war or fake reform, it’s hard to believe anything in this country, when it’s sold by the slick fakers. — Oh, the GOP is against it. It must be good, therefore. And that stands for political analysis among many in the Democratic Party.
As a regular reader of FDL (I am subscribed to the RSS feed so I receive everything), I am really, really disappointed with this post. Threatening to vote Bernie out of office is an extremely short-sighted and ignorant thing to do and I am really embarrassed that fellow ‘progressives’ would vote one of our biggest allies out of office. If Bernie lost his re-election, I strongly believe it would be a huge loss for both Vermont and the entire nation as he is a very strong voice for progressive values. All you have to do is look at his voting record, and for further proof, his speeches and other videos (and especially any segment of his show produced by Brave New Films, Senator Sanders Unfiltered – http://www.sandersunfiltered.com), to see that he is a crucial voice of reason.
Also, what exactly is Bernie supposed to do about the bill? The leadership has made clear they will not use reconciliation and the public option and Medicare buy-in are dead. Bernie has made it known that he doesn’t agree with parts of the bill (anyone who puts forth an amendment calling for a single payer system obviously doesn’t agree entirely with this bill, I think we can all agree on that). I believe he simply realizes the time is now to do something, and to add as many positive aspects to the bill as possible (such as this one: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/12/22/818060/-This-HCR-Bill:-45,000,000-Get-Single-Payer-Vermont-Health-Care)
Now, it’s true that reforming this bill in the future will be hard and that it really helps out the insurance companies, but right now is the time to do a healthcare bill. However, if he voted against the bill, both the negative and positive aspects would be dead, and the public would really bail on Democrats in 2010 (all signs are pointing to losses for Democrats in 2010 in both houses of Congress). If we lose seats, we won’t have the 60 to break a filibuster. Of course, we don’t really have 60 because of all the conservative Democrats, but it would be all that much worse for the progressive agenda if only 59 Senators had D’s next to their name instead of 60 when you look at the huge amount of obstruction the GOP is leading. Losing seats in 2010 would give even more power to the GOP, ensuring nothing meaningful would be done on healthcare (or many other issues for that matter) from 2010-2012, therefore causing even MORE people to bail on Democrats, and voting a Republican into the White House in 2012. A very possible scenario in my opinion.
It’s a tough reality to face, but this really is the best the Senate can do right now as it’s filled with conservatives who do whatever the healthcare industry wants them to. I think spending a little more time on things such as primary challenges to Blanche Lincoln and Joe “I’m against the public option and Medicare buy-in” Lieberman would be a MUCH more useful thing to do than to threaten to vote Bernie “I’m absolutely ripshit that we’re not getting a vote on universal single-payer healthcare” Sanders out of office.
Shame on FDL for promoting such a useless and divisive idea.
Also, please update this post to reflect the fact that Howard Dean stopped calling for the bill to be killed. He didn’t start supporting it simply because the GOP was against it, he’s being pragmatic like Bernie. They both know the bills have a lot of crap in them, but realize the Senate is not exactly full of progressives and can’t pass a really good bill.
This sounds like a full-blown post to me, so why don’t you make it one and publish it as a stand alone post. I agree with you completely, btw. What do they want from the man? He got not only Vermont, but the entire country, what was it, $11B for community health centers wherein you pay what you can afford. Provisions were made for some 20,000 new doctors. I read somewhere that works out to like 2 community centers per county for the entire country. I think if they can keep Olympia Snowe in Maine, to give up Sanders for some impossible goal he was unable to reach would be a horrible mistake.
i’ll be supporting bernie sanders unless someone can show me evidence that he wasn’t trying to make the best of a very bad situation.
sanders has been asking us for months to help support real progressive healthcare reform and we (at fdl) have done nothing to help him — just the opposite.
Hey [Edited by Moderator. No personal attacks.] look in the mirror!