People in the “pass any bill, regardless how bad” camp often talk about “fixing it later.” They point to previous progressive change like social security, Medicare, and the civil rights legislation as proof that progressive reforms start small but grow into something better. This mantra is repeated as an article of faith, but it is not based on a true, dispassionate examination of history. For every progressive reform that slowly grew into something better, there is a counter example of reform efforts that, due to poor design, withered or died over the years.
Arianna Huffington uses the example of the badly designed “No Child Left Behind” program. It has turned into a disaster, but has remained unfixed for almost a decade. Rupert Russell, John Aravosis, and Atrios point to the example of welfare programs that were part of Johnson’s Great Society. It is hard to argue welfare has become better and more progressive over the decades. The parallels between welfare and this health care reform bill (both only help a rather small group of typically lower income Americans) is something to be seriously concerned about.
There is also the example of the slow rollback of labor union rights, and, most importantly for me, banking regulations. The critical post-Great Depression banking regulations have been under assault for decades, and I think last year’s financial meltdown made it clear that deregulation mania has been to the detriment of our society. With the Republican party hellbent on deregulation, I have little faith in the long-term viability of a health care system that relies solely on regulation to keep the health insurance industry honest.
Many are championing this bill as an imperfect step toward greater reform, and claim it is built on a strong foundation. Say what you will about the benefits of the bill, but I refuse to accept that funneling trillions of dollars, and forcing millions of new customers, into the private health insurance system that got us into this mess is a smart foundation.
A strong fear of mine is that this bill will only intertwine another powerful industry complex into our system of government. Like the military industrial complex, agricultural industrial complex, and now, possibly, the financial industrial complex, I fear the private health insurance industrial complex will begin feeding off the government tit and never let go. It will become another bloated industry that survives by extorting ever-greater amounts of money from the government in a vicious cycle of legalized corruption. I worry passing this bill will make it effectively impossible to ever rein in or eliminate this extremely wasteful industry. It will become another burden this country can’t afford to support.
We should debate the health care bill before us with eyes wide open. We should not delude ourselves with wishful thinking or the mistaken belief that every small, imperfect attempt at progressive reform always grows into something great. Not every attempt at progressive reform in this country has kept moving forward in a linear direction. We must also fully acknowledge the terrible potential ramifications of what this bill could do. The private health insurance system is ruining our nation and making us uncompetitive in the global market place. This bill will help some Americans, but at the terrible price of greatly increasing the power of those who ruined the health care system to begin with.
This bill may be a small step forward toward better reform. It might end up a new welfare program that is slowly pared down to near uselessness over the years (and health reform is not starting from a robust place to begin with). Or by empowering the enemies of real reform, it could be the political equivalent of a starving farmer feeding his children the seed stock. It holds off the hunger for now, but, in the long term, it dooms the farmer because he has nothing left to plant. Temporary relief at the price of even greater long term trouble.



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With the starting small with Social Security and Civil rights legislation had not put billions in pockets of Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies.
I understand the theory of incrementalism, But how do you really create competition when you have all ready set in stone where it is going
Added to Wendell Potters title for this legislation
“Insurance and Pharmaceutical Industries Profit and Protection Act”
The Republicans are so concerned about the national debt NOW.
Sure could figure out where to get the money to start and maintain unnecessary wars.
as I predicted, since this is a gift to their corporate sponsors, the republicans are gonna make sure this bill does pass, not the reverse, they have just been posturing;
as I said as soon as I found out bout this bill, I do not believe there is any way on the planet this bill wouldn’t have passed, if enough democrats didn’t vote for cloture then a republican would have
this was all posturing
‘circular firing squad’, ‘don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good’, as you said we’ll ‘fix it later’. Nauseating rhetorical claptrap from whining one-lining corporatist thieves. What I think they fail to realize is more and more people are waking up from their ‘Jedi Mind Tricks’ and this flatulence that passes for talking points is not going to be effective for much longer.
When people see the shit hit the fan on this monstrosity of a health care ‘reform’ they are going to be pissed and hopefully the rest of the hypnotized masses will shake of this illusion that hardly any of our elected officicals give two shits about anything but themselves and their corporate masters.
The only way we can fight this is with our wallets. Cancel your health insurance, because having it is going to be as bad as not having it anyway and just pay the loathsome fucking IRS their tithe. It’s the only way we can get these peoples attention is by draining their profits.
Whatever the pluses, this p.o.s. bill makes the enemy richer and more powerful to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, some of which they will use in the next few years to roll back the parts that they don’t like.
Great points!
I belong to the school of benign neglect. Sometimes, medicine does more harm than good, especially with chronic conditions, as western medicine doesn’t really know how to approach them.
My “school” seems like a metaphor for not passing this bill, which is likely to harm many more people than it helps.
I disagree perris. The Rs would vote against anything, even their own donors, to make Obama look bad / like a failure. Their primary motivation is hatred.
I worry about this too as Obama is losing his base. Once the idiots put the crazy Republicans back in the majority, this thing can only get worse, not better.
It’s just like every other lobby sucking off the teat of government.
People are mad about the idea of government run health care but they can’t seem to get their minds around INDUSTRY run government.
Giving health insurers a guaranteed market only ensures that they are all the more formidable and buffed up economically the next time we have to tangle with them to fix this abortion of bill.
the r’s would have been fine, a couple would have taken the bullet, someone who wants to retire
they act according to their corporate sponsors, anything else is just fodder
“life is being on the wire, everything else is waiting”
they were on the wire waiting for the vote, if this bill wasn’t going to pass through the democrats then a couple or one republican would have taken the bullet and voted for cloture
ammendment 13 section 1.
I think that most principled conservatives can get their minds around this, but the Republican Party does not mediate those sentiments into the Congress just like the Democrat Party does not mediate our sentiments for really solving this problem to the Congress.
TPM has one headline up suggesting that the House is pre-emptively caving in. I no longer care for TPM since Josh Marshall has proven to be nothing except a pure clone of the old media punditocracy – he merely pushes and approves of Dem talking points – but I do scan over the sellout sight now and again and saw that headline.
I suppose Marshall owns stocks in Aetna.
What really galls me is the people who say, “We have to pass this bill; this is the only chance we’ll have to enact health care reform for a generation!” then turn right around and say, “Pass this bill now, and then we can work on making it better.”
What???!!! How in the heck do you square those two things?
How are you gonna fix it if your once-in-a-generation chance just rode off into the sunset?
This bill can’t be perceived as a welfare bill. It just can’t… not if it is to have any chance of survival over the long-term.
Whatever the policy strengths of the watered-down public option, it was an important political element as a “universal” benefit of reform: something for all classes of people who don’t receive employer-based health care. This includes the small businesses that are the lifeblood of the economy.
Without that, we have a welfare bill for those earning less than $20k a year and a corporate welfare bill with individual mandates for people to buy junk insurance they won’t use. It won’t get more liberal over time if it’s perceived as a tax-and-welfare scheme that redistributes benefits from those with health care to those without – which is how swing voters and independents are starting to see it. Even a quarter of Democrats think this bill is worse than nothing now.
As is, I can easily see the Republicans sweeping in, slashing subsidies, making the Medicaid expansion optional, and using HHS to effectively abolish the insurance regulations in this bill. Democrats will be blamed for their “misguided” health care reform, and the entire progressive agenda could be set back a decade.
It’s a disaster for Democrats to pass a “welfare” bill without reform.
Social Security and Medicare were government programs when they began. It is easier to tweak a government program by the government than to make changes to a system that is wholly located within the private for-profit market. Why would anyone think that changes can be made to this system after rewarding insurers with 30 million new customers and billions of taxpayer dollars? Your premium dollars go towards paying lobbyists to stop any real reform. Now they will have that much more to use against you. You can’t go back and fix this system because the system hasn’t changed at all. Only gotten more people and some minor regulations that will be nearly impossible for the states to monitor. Making any changes to this system would mean starting over – with the addition of a public option or the decision to highly regulate private insurers (like they do in other countries) by making it illegal to make a profit from basic health care. It won’t be easier next time. And we’ll have given the industry so much more money to fight back. Waiting to fix things when the system remains exactly the same is crazy.
Yup, yup, nail on head.
he’s losing more then his base, he’s losing everyone who voted for him
Anyone who thinks the progressive agenda grows over time hasn’t been awake for a couple of decades.
Corps are Obama’s base, and he’s doing everything he can for them.
bada bing0
(bada bing0..I just invented that btw, how do you like it?)
Like it. If it were the cocktail hour, I’d drink to it.
Thank you Jon.
When last I looked, the comments were still open on today’s NYT’s “Democrats Face Challenges in Merging Health Care Bills” article, and some sanity such as this was mightily needed.
I encourage folks to trip on over there and educate a few of the “we can’t wait” and “it’s a first step to better things” folks.
I’m adding this @ edit, so I don’t know if I can make it link: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/health/policy/22health.html
Clinton alienated the left and then made triangular common cause with the Dole-led Republicans. Now that Gingrich is viewed as the moderate/liberal within the GOP tent, is there a possibility that once Obama pulls a NAFTA on us, that the congressional GOP will find common cause with him to do anything?
Had McCain won, he would have put forth a health care bill that looks astonishingly like what the Democrats have put forth, yet the congressional GOP has convinced itself that Obama is Satan.
How does this one end? Martial law?
It’s good
Charles Pierce in Eric Alterman’s blog at The Nation sums up nicely what will probably happen if the Senate version (especially) is the dominant health “care” reform. You have to scroll down to the Charles Pierce section to read what he says.
A mandate without choice is tyranny! Welcome to the new age of private insurance slavery. Link by link, yard by yard, the chain of this bill will make us all servants to our corporate masters.
I think we’re already there. Gotten on a plane recently?
now you are at the core of why I engaged and continue to engage in this battle.
they should never let him get away with that, they was just asking for trouble.
Civil rights legislation was not perfect when it was initiated? True, but it was also not written as a capitulation to KKK lobbyists, either.
these congressworms can’t write law. how did they get a job in the first place? oh yeah, welfare to work. they need to go back to sleeping under bridges
Anyone who says they’re going to fix it in the future is basically promising free ponies for everyone.
I’ve had the same reaction of disappointment in TPM. It used to be one of my bookmarks, but I’ve deleted it.
Why on earth did he go that way?
There’s alittle something in this bill for everyone but we the people.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/22-0
I agree it won’t be fixed but gutted.
Fix it later? Obama campaigned to give us re-importation of domestic drugs…then he made a deal with Billy Tausin and big Pharma.
He, and/or Rahm, then went on to convince 30 Democrats to vote against re-importation the other night.
This guy is losing his base (which included me)….and he deserves it.
I keep trying to envision the end also. But I can’t figure it out. As I have typed several times, I have been watching the economy’s slomo suicide over medical costs since 1991 (at which point it was already of such long duration that even a macroeconomist could notice). Even, so, I could never anticipate what was around the next bend.
Excellent point.
I wish the “we’ll just fix it later” crowd were paying attention.
But pardon me while I steal this for my next rebuttal to those folks.
Bernie Sanders this morning painfully said what we all know, Congress has been brought by corporate interest. (on Morning Joe)
You can see the fear on Dems faces when they talk about the Health Care Bill/ Insurance Profit Bill
The sorry Dems Know, that everyone is watching them sell out to insurance companies. (The way they use to sell out the American people behind close doors is coming to light)
The idea of calling this a liberal bill, is just crazy! (the last time I check rich Insurance Executives don’t vote progressive or support progressive causes)
Every Dem that votes for this bill should be challenge in a primary in 2010.
Let us all please stop calling Obama a Progressive.
If it acts like a republican, supports republicans ideas, it is a republican period.
At the end of the day, the end game is what we make of it, otherwise, we get steamrolled and the Magna Carta will look all liberal and progressive.
Exactly right Jon. This is probably the high water mark for Democrats for a long while (thanks Rahm!). I don’t see how this crap gets better over time. It’s far more likely that the program is going to get worse over time as our corrupted politicians sell “improvements” to the program to the industry.
The key point is that the deal RahmObama cut with Pharam was a corrupt bargain to begin with whose political goal was to de-fund the opposition. Do you really think legislation based on a corrupt bargain is going to be “improved” over time?
Social Security and Medicare were public plans. This is empowering private corporate interests over the interests of the public.
Jon says it best.
Didn’t habeas corpus get thrown under the bus during the Bush administration? And Obama never called an ambulance?
At least in 1991 health insurance was affordable if you didn’t get really sick. Now, if this bill passes, we will never have even that.
.
Very good points. And Pierce gets it 1000% right to boot.
In the way that one “enjoys” watching a plane crash or train wreck, I am enjoying watching the Democrats totally destroy themselves. The Rethugs took control in 1994 and actually held onto it for a long time. The Dems took control only 2 years ago and they are already setup to lose it, POOF!. It’s not as if they don’t deserve to go down in flames. Apparently there is not a SINGLE progressive (yeah, right) in the senate OR the house that actually stands for anything or is willing to make a stand on ANYTHING.
Word is out that the house intends to go along to get along. They will try a few cosmetic changes and “fight” for a public option or some other salve, but only for show, and then cave in and vote for the senate bill essentially as it is. POOF!
There’s goes the Democraps and their majority. Hell, I wont even raise a finger to help Grayson if the house folds on this.
That’s because you, like me, and almost everybody else, could not believe that someone could be so greedy, callous, and short-sited that they would take everything for themselves and leave nothing for anyone else.
They will keep taking until we are all homeless and starving, and they will blame us for being lazy and irresponsible.
Sanders has no right or place to say anything. Where do you think that 60 votes have been coming from? SANDERS IS AMONG THE “PRINCIPLED” CROOKS VOTING FOR THIS ATROCITY.
Sanders is shit to me. Anyone who repeatedly votes for cloture on this is in bed with the crooks. Period.
Perhaps “No Child Left Behind” has remained unfixed for that long because Republics had almost complete power for the majority of that time.
Not much longer, I assure you. Bush tried and failed to enrich Wall Street with OUR social security dollars. Obama is making in the same direction. HIS Lieberman puppet was behind getting the totally discredited Greenspan to talk about how evil and costly social security and medicare is recently in the senate. Obama has farted out his mouth repeatedly about how we need to get them “under control” and “reform” them. Yeah, “reform” in the same way this health insurance bill is “reforming” healthcare.
Obama WILL be working to privatize social security AND medicare soon. I guarantee it.
No it wasn’t affordable in 1991. It was 16% of GDP, now 17% or 18% (haven’t calculated it lately). FAS106 caused corps to do some cost “saving,” enter “managed care.” That worked to steady medical inflation for awhile, and then it started going up again. Corps respond by increasing copays, dropping coverage, etc. Third party payment is a large part of the political problem. It didn’t rouse any public ire as long as someone else was footing the bill.
Yes. My political eyeopeners just arrived in the past decade. I was incredibly naive about what went on in DeeCee.
Very succinct.
This is the first step in “entitlement reform,” so that each and every transaction must be mediate by Wall Street’s credit as wages fall. Eliminate retirement security and the fetishization of housing into a retirement plan gets more gasoline thrown on it, because it worked out so well last time.
Health care, housing, education and retirement must cut free from the financial economy if we are to live free.
It’s the Vlad the Impaler philosophy. Suck us dry then put our heads on a pike for running out of money,
There is an aspect of LBJ’s reforms that has not gotten a lot of attention. The Urban Renewal part. It tore down many black owned businesses and communities. Setting them adrift from community and a sense of self. Paving the way for Wal Mart etc.
There is always an agenda that for some reason just doesn’t get fixed.
Another such “agenda” was Jimmy Carter’s destruction of the family farm. A key aspect of the repub. take over of the south.Farmers were encouraged to take out loans for new equipment at low interest rates. Then interest rates sky rocketed. There was a “gas shortage.” The farmers were not allowed to harvest their crops. Rationing. People in towns had to contend with long lines at the pump.Jimmy’s friends were Big Ag..they got to buy the farms and land for pennies on the dollar. The Supreme Court under Raygun declared the whole process illegal. Don’t believe it. Look at all the great “losing the family farm” movies. The MSM media did not cover the details.
Pass it now and fix it later was the same thing we heard from Rahm and Clinton when NAFTA was passed. We all know how that worked out for the country.
I have no doubt you are correct.
My point was in response to those who say that SS and Medicare had a rocky start but were improved. ie that they established the principle of public safety net programs. This does the opposite and as we know will only worsen life for the average American.
Urban Renewal (a.k.a. Negro Removal) began in the immediate post war era and really got up a head of steam during Eisenhower.
Then you have NAFTA , three strikes and you are out, welfare reform with no jobs for welfare moms to go to, and the repeal of Glass/Stegall.The clintons.
Setting us up for gbush. The whole process is like a pendulum swinging back and forth with dem , repub , dem , repub. The over all agenda stays the same. Corporations win…we lose. We are encouraged to contact our lawmakers. But for some reason, the outcome stays the same.
We saw in the last election how dissenters were marginalized. The dem debates became boring after Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich were kicked off. Kucinich was the only dem. candidate who questioned the NH primary elections. ..which were and are as phony as a 3 dollar bill. And have a lot to do with deciding who our presidents will be.That includes Al Gore and John Kerry , who had a lot of reason to question…since those two elections were obviously and blatantly stolen.
It’s the same thing Clinton and Rahm told us when they crammed NAFTA through. Rembember, it was flawed and they were going to fix it later. Well, guess what, we’re still waiting for them to fix it.
What I love is how the “must pass even a crappy bill or we’re all DOOOOOOMED!” people accuse us of acting out of pure emotionalism and spite, when their arguments are getting ever more emotional, tortured, and dishonest.
Well, I guess you could go back even further. The 40 acres and a mule didn’t turn out real well either.
There always has to be a slave labor force.
Can you say SHOCK DOCRINE?
Our politicians are all becoming an SNL script.
We must give TRILLIONS to Insurance Companies or we all DIE!
One would think that the top 1% would be satisfied with 90% of wealth of the USA. I guess not
Because of assets we are bound by the blackmail of the Healthcare Industry!
My neighbor just received her bill for 7 days at the hospital ……… $84,000…….. because of lung cancer!
Mind you, that’s just the hospital bill!
And we lose when we follow the bouncing ball. Do not follow the bouncing ball. Think things through for yourself. Do not accept their framings. They frame matters to divide us.
This is the shock doctrine, we are about to experience the worst disaster capitialism has to offer, worse than we’ve foisted off on the global south.
And we deserve it if we can’t figure out how to leverage our enormous resources to the contrary.
Slave labor force and Larry Summers…
In 1995, as Under Sec of Treasury , Larry Summers helped the financially bankrupt Mexico to get a loan. Congress would not help..so Larry used back channels. Only prob…he set the interests rates sky high. Say a Mexican had a 7% mortgage rate on his home. It went to 50%.
That started the huge influx of Mexicans to the US. Alan Greenspan stated in his memoir that he formed a lasting bond with Larry and Rubin. They got their loan back early because of the interest rates. Sooo smart.
The US workers lose again. Don’t think the Mexicans are real thrilled at having to leave their families and jobs to go to the US illegally. Not speak the language and live in fear of jail.
Larry Summers is a genius. As president of Harvard, giving that institution financial advice…they went 1.7 billion dollars in the red.(Vanity Fair) His name was mentioned to replace Bernacke.
Jon,
I made this point in my “coming out of lurkdom” post, but used ASFA and PRWORA as the examples in order to underscore how Dems have done this before with tragic consequences. We have, historically, not gone back for the other half of the loaf. http://firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/an-invitation-to-de-lurk/#comment-2039810
Republicans hate the immigration “problem.” Dems. …not so much.
After all, there has to be a villan to mobilize political forces. Good guy ..bad guy…just like a movie.Nothing works better than to have somebody to hate. Look at all the reforms gbush got passed. While we were marveling at how incompetent he was.
Meanwhile, we all get played.
I am listening to David Bender & the Sub on Stephanie Miller talking about how WONDERFUL, how AWESOME, how FANTASTICAL the HCR bill is, and how STUPID and JUVENILE we are for expecting more. We are not reality based.
First single payer was given away, then the public option was given away, then the medicare buy-in was given away. SCHIP will be given away in 2016.
And what did we get in return? A mandate and a promise “to fix it” later.
That not compromise, that’s a sell-out.
Reforms only get better over time when there is increased momentum instead of reduced momentum after the baby step is passed.
What we do between the date Barack Obama signs whatever comes out of Congress and November 2010 will determine whether reforms get better, even if we get the complete original tri-committee House bill out of Congress (the chances of that being maybe 0.000001%).
That should not affect our position now. Now, we should fight to get as much reform as possible into the bill, realizing that whatever comes out Congress will still pass and Obama will still sign no matter how much “kill the bill” sentiment there is among the public.
And it is a good thing that progressives are divided on this. If the bill dies, it won’t be because of progressive pressure. It will have been killed by poison pills that even Congress couldn’t accept.
You know. There’s not a lot we can do about it.in the short term either. I used to think “if we can just survive 8 years of Bush then we can begin to turn the tide the other way.” ObamaRhama and the Democratic Party have really obliterated my hope and belief in the partisan political process.
We must take the Corporates head on. Forget the partisan games but write and write and speak and speak and clarify the evil inherent in the way our money obsessed culture is operating.
I am enjoying watching the Democrats totally destroy themselves.
??????
Good catch, perris.
That would help explain why the Republicans under the direction of Mitch McConnell, contrary to conventional wisdom, have not deployed every possible obstruction to the passage, pre-Christmas, of this legislation.
As I’ve noted a couple of times before, absent unanimous consent, 30 (Rule 22-mandated) hours of post-cloture debate must run before further business can be conducted, and such hours only count when the Senate is in session and debating the legislation on which cloture was invoked. [The rule prevents a final simple-majority vote for passage of the measure in question (on which cloture to close debate was invoked) until those 30 hours post-cloture have elapsed, or been waived by unanimous consent.]
So, for example, under the rule, the 30 hours after Monday morning’s 1 a.m. cloture vote on the Reid Managers’ Amendment wouldn’t have started running until the Senate came back into session at about noon Monday and would have been interrupted by Monday night’s adjournment of the Senate (using up a total of about seven hours or so). Instead, however, before 9 a.m. Tuesday morning the final up-or-down vote on passage of the Reid Managers’ Amendment was able to take place at the expiration of the 30 hours.
How and why? Because, unnoticed by the media or basically anyone else, I guess (it’s all the “filibuster’s” fault, don’t you know), the Republicans agreed by unanimous consent to let post-cloture time run while the Senate was recessed and adjourned Monday morning (after 2 a.m.) and Monday night.
As executed at about 1:30 a.m. Monday:
Followed by this UCAgreement at the (second) close of business Monday (evening):
So as of last night (Monday evening), every Senator had agreed to count toward the 30 hours of post-cloture time on the second cloture vote (held early this morning, Tuesday) the time during which the Senate is recessed for caucus lunches midday today. Furthermore, because the time has already been set, per C-SPAN (2:15 p.m. Wednesday), for the final up-or-down vote on the amendment on which cloture was invoked this morning, the Senate apparently already agreed by unanimous consent sometime this morning to let the current (second cloture vote’s) 30 hours continue to run overnight tonight (Tuesday) as well, even while the Senate is adjourned.
And there will be yet a third cloture vote Wednesday afternoon where the same scenario applies.
In short: The Republicans had it, and still have it, within their power to delay final passage of this legislation until after Christmas. [As does every other Senator.] And yet, they have declined to deploy that power to almost no public notice whatsoever.
To those in making the “over time” argument, I think we should counter with that the only way that could even possibly be true is that we get inserted into the bill language which says basically that “Since this is real reform, all Members of Congress (both houses), and the President and his cabinet and their families, will no longer have their Insurance paid for by the federal government.”
Only then is there some tiny possibility that these shills will see self interest in improving matters. Because its become abundantly clear that if our politicians dont gain personally in some way, nothing will be changed.
I did say it was fascinating and enjoyable the way watching a plane crash is. There is another part of me that sees this as a regrettable but fully necessary purification by fire. The party is imploding and self-immolating. It is obvious that it MUST do so to clean out the brush and debris that has built up and clogged the path forward.
The Democrats must be destroyed in order to save them.
Me? I’m not a Democrat, no, no longer that. I am a member of the Democratz (Liberal Democratic Party). The party NOT beholden to big money, big business, and enamored of the Shock Doctrine.
See? Feingold and Sanders, regardless of their pretty posturing, are fully behind this atrocity.
NONE can be salvaged and NONE deserve salvaging. They ALL must go.
Face it. We have been beaten on this one.The “democratic” process as sustained by the two major parties has not worked for us. Smile sweetly and think “f… you.”
Pick up the pieces and start to build another strategy. .
Yes, and fast, while we still have control of them.