Comments on: 10 Reasons to Kill the Senate Bill http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/ Politics for liberal newsgeeks Fri, 17 Feb 2012 02:47:29 -0600 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: StarCraftVO http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-75116 StarCraftVO Wed, 23 Dec 2009 18:31:52 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-75116 So let me see if I've got this right. Under the Senate plan, I could cancel my current $6,000-per-year insurance and pay just $750 per year in penalties. When I contract some terrible illness, I can then sign up for insurance (no pre-existing conditions exclusion) and start using my benefits? Sounds good to me. So let me see if I’ve got this right. Under the Senate plan, I could cancel my current $6,000-per-year insurance and pay just $750 per year in penalties. When I contract some terrible illness, I can then sign up for insurance (no pre-existing conditions exclusion) and start using my benefits? Sounds good to me.

]]> By: beowulf http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-73375 beowulf Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:02:33 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-73375 - -

]]> By: beowulf http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-73374 beowulf Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:00:14 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-73374 <em>"Don’t understand why we cannot even look at curtailing all these medical malpractice lawsuits. Who pays for these X million dollar awards? You, me, we all do!</em> Malpractice awards are chump change in macroeconomic terms, less than 1% of total health care spending. However you do have a point that its a good bargaining chip to get doctors on board for real reform. Unless most small businessman, doctors can't shield their legal liability by setting up a corporate shell. Physicians are always 100% personally liable for any mistakes they make in the practice of medicine. Its not their insurance plan or, at worst, their business on the line, its their house and personal savings as well. As a consequence, there is no other group of law abiding Americans more freaked out by our judicial system than doctors and that's why they're willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars a year in malpractice insurance. This is a source for leverage for any future single-payer reform. Currently, there is one group of doctors who don't sweat medmal suits-- physicians employed by the federal government (VA, DoD, Public Health Service, etc). The federal government has exempted its owns doctors from state medical malpractice laws. If a VA patient sues for malpractice, the suit is against the US government, defended by federal attorneys and any payout comes out of the US Treasury, not the doctor's pocket. Congressman Tim Murphy (R-PA) offerd an amendment to the House Rules Committee that would treat doctors who accepted Medicare, Medicaid or a public option plan the same as federal docs (if they're bad doctors, Uncle Sam can always cut them from their provider list or petition the state medical board to yank their license). http://docs.house.gov/rules/3962/Murphy3962_105.pdf The Rules Committee rejected the amendment to the House bill, which is just as well, why give something for nothing? Even more than higher Medicare reimbursements (though that would certainly help), nothing would move doctors over to supporting a single payer system faster than by including the Murphy Amendment in the plan. “Don’t understand why we cannot even look at curtailing all these medical malpractice lawsuits. Who pays for these X million dollar awards? You, me, we all do!

Malpractice awards are chump change in macroeconomic terms, less than 1% of total health care spending. However you do have a point that its a good bargaining chip to get doctors on board for real reform. Unless most small businessman, doctors can’t shield their legal liability by setting up a corporate shell. Physicians are always 100% personally liable for any mistakes they make in the practice of medicine. Its not their insurance plan or, at worst, their business on the line, its their house and personal savings as well. As a consequence, there is no other group of law abiding Americans more freaked out by our judicial system than doctors and that’s why they’re willing to pay tens of thousands of dollars a year in malpractice insurance.

This is a source for leverage for any future single-payer reform. Currently, there is one group of doctors who don’t sweat medmal suits– physicians employed by the federal government (VA, DoD, Public Health Service, etc). The federal government has exempted its owns doctors from state medical malpractice laws. If a VA patient sues for malpractice, the suit is against the US government, defended by federal attorneys and any payout comes out of the US Treasury, not the doctor’s pocket. Congressman Tim Murphy (R-PA) offerd an amendment to the House Rules Committee that would treat doctors who accepted Medicare, Medicaid or a public option plan the same as federal docs (if they’re bad doctors, Uncle Sam can always cut them from their provider list or petition the state medical board to yank their license).
http://docs.house.gov/rules/3962/Murphy3962_105.pdf

The Rules Committee rejected the amendment to the House bill, which is just as well, why give something for nothing? Even more than higher Medicare reimbursements (though that would certainly help), nothing would move doctors over to supporting a single payer system faster than by including the Murphy Amendment in the plan.

]]> By: TruthHurts2 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-73346 TruthHurts2 Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:51:34 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-73346 The "kill the bill" campaign is both irrational and immature....It's irrational because the far-left (like the far-right) has an unrealistically skewed view of the world. Does FDL have a candidate for Senate in Arkansas?...Nebraska?...How about Louisiana?..The answer to each state inquiry is "20". That's the vote total percentage limit for ANY candidate who is "supported by FDL" in any of those states general elections! The argument is "immature" because this "top 10 reasons.." list has at least 7 "reasons" which can also be applied to the House HCR bill. Did I miss the "kill" request for <em>that</em> list?..Part of "maturity" is the ability to recognize one's limits. Oh well. I'll watch for those "walk back" posts in the future from the "experts" at FDL. The “kill the bill” campaign is both irrational and immature….It’s irrational because the far-left (like the far-right) has an unrealistically skewed view of the world. Does FDL have a candidate for Senate in Arkansas?…Nebraska?…How about Louisiana?..The answer to each state inquiry is “20″. That’s the vote total percentage limit for ANY candidate who is “supported by FDL” in any of those states general elections! The argument is “immature” because this “top 10 reasons..” list has at least 7 “reasons” which can also be applied to the House HCR bill. Did I miss the “kill” request for that list?..Part of “maturity” is the ability to recognize one’s limits. Oh well. I’ll watch for those “walk back” posts in the future from the “experts” at FDL.

]]> By: perfectioncook http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-73339 perfectioncook Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:42:13 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-73339 Dear Jane: I saw you on the ed show, I agree with everything you said,so I ask again how do you think we can kill this bill? So far I'm seeing a petition, is that the entire plan, if not what is the rest of the plan. ed ask you that question on the show and while you answered many things you never answered that question so I'm asking it. Last spring obama shoved 330 million people under the bus so a signing petition by itself is not going to be near enough, I'm guessing that you already know that so with all due respect I ask how do you intend to kill the bill. Dear Jane:
I saw you on the ed show, I agree with everything you said,so I ask again how do you think we can kill this bill? So far I’m seeing a petition, is that the entire plan, if not what is the rest of the plan. ed ask you that question on the show and while you answered many things you never answered that question so I’m asking it. Last spring obama shoved 330 million people under the bus so a signing petition by itself is not going to be near enough, I’m guessing that you already know that so with all due respect I ask how do you intend to kill the bill.

]]> By: levotb1 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-73325 levotb1 Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:15:05 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-73325 Firedoglake forgot one of the most important reasons to oppose this bill: It has any number of loopholes that will allow millions--MILLIONS--of illegal aliens, perhaps 40 million, to get health insurance paid for by you and me. Firedoglake forgot one of the most important reasons to oppose this bill:

It has any number of loopholes that will allow millions–MILLIONS–of illegal aliens, perhaps 40 million, to get health insurance paid for by you and me.

]]> By: smudgersmith http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-73316 smudgersmith Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:55:39 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-73316 I have watched this process from across the border with hope but mounting disappointment and anger. I had hoped that the American people would be able to enjoy the same system we have up here in Canada.Although flawed, it gives Canadians a tremendous sense of personal security. We have an ulterior motive. It would take the privatization pressure off our government-managed system. We only have to look across the line to see how much suffering privatized health care can cause. I think , apart from the urgent need for campaign finance reform, that Americans must let go of this irrational phobia about 'Big Government'. You have been propagandized for generations to believe this, when in fact you need the government, which you control, to stand between you and corporate greed. It is the corporations and the rich who don't want 'Big Government', and their control of the media, education, the church and other institutions allows them to inculcate this phobia at a very early age. I am very sorry that Obama and the Democrats let you down, but there was really never going to be any other outcome. But you must still keep fighting. Vote it down, regroup and start again. Good luck from BC, Canada I have watched this process from across the border with hope but mounting disappointment and anger. I had hoped that the American people would be able to enjoy the same system we have up here in Canada.Although flawed, it gives Canadians a tremendous sense of personal security. We have an ulterior motive. It would take the privatization pressure off our government-managed system. We only have to look across the line to see how much suffering privatized health care can cause. I think , apart from the urgent need for campaign finance reform, that Americans must let go of this irrational phobia about ‘Big Government’. You have been propagandized for generations to believe this, when in fact you need the government, which you control, to stand between you and corporate greed. It is the corporations and the rich who don’t want ‘Big Government’, and their control of the media, education, the church and other institutions allows them to inculcate this phobia at a very early age. I am very sorry that Obama and the Democrats let you down, but there was really never going to be any other outcome. But you must still keep fighting. Vote it down, regroup and start again. Good luck from BC, Canada

]]> By: forestgunk http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-73306 forestgunk Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:36:38 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-73306 Let the poor, huddled masses rot! Who are they to say we should have to pay for their health care. If they can't afford to pay the premiums the insurance companies dictate, then let them go without. After all, this is capitalism working at its best. If they can’t pay their hospital bills let them forfeit their houses, cars, and savings! That commie, Jesus Christ started this whole “socialized medicine” thing when he healed the sick for free! Damn Commie! “Greed is good”!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ And good women and men did nothing, and greed did triumphed. Merry Christmas!!! ,,,,,, Bahhhhhhhh Humbug!!!! Show me the money!!! Regards, Ebenezer Scrooge WAY TO GO Aetna Alliance Health and Life Insurance Company Altius Health Plans Altius One American Family Life Assurance Company (Aflac) American Medical Security Life Insurance Company AmeriHealth - New Jersey Ameritas Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield of VA Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield of CT Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield of Missouri Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield of Wisconsin Anthem Blue Cross of California Anthem BlueCross BlueShield Arise Health Plan Arkansas Blue Cross and Blue Shield Asuris Northwest Health Atlantis Health Plan Avera Health Plans Bay Dental Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Minnesota Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Oklahoma Blue Cross and Blue Shield of South Carolina Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Texas Blue Cross Blue Shield of Arizona Blue Cross Blue Shield of Delaware Blue Cross Blue Shield of Georgia Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan Blue Cross and Blue Shield of New Mexico Blue Cross of Idaho Blue Shield of California Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Illinois BlueCross BlueShield of Kansas City BlueCross BlueShield of Louisiana BlueCross BlueShield of Montana BlueCross BlueShield of Nebraska BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield Celtic Ins. Co. CIGNA Clear Choice Health Plans Companion Life Insurance Company ConnectiCare Inc. Coventry Health and Life Insurance Company Coventry Health Care of Delaware, Inc Coventry Health Care of Georgia, Inc. Coventry Health Care of Iowa, Inc. Coventry Health Care of Kansas Inc. Coventry Health Care of Louisiana, Inc. Coventry Health Care of Nebraska, Inc. Coventry Health Care of Oklahoma Inc. CoventryOne Dean Health Plan, Inc. Delta Dental Empire First Priority Life, administered by Blue Cross of NEPA FirstCare Fallon Community Health Plan Geisinger Quality Options Group Health Group Health Incorporated Group Health Plan Health Net Health Plan of Nevada HealthAmerica HealthPartners Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey Humana Independence Blue Cross Kaiser Mid-Atlantic Kaiser Permanente KPS Health Plans LifeWise Health Plan of Oregon LifeWise Health Plan of Washington Lovelace Health Plans My Health Alliance Medica Medica of Minnesota Medical Mutual of Ohio Mercy Health Plans of Missouri Mountain State BlueCross BlueShield Nationwide Life Insurance Company ODS Health Plan, Inc. Optima Health Insurance Company Oxford Health Plans, Inc. PacifiCare PacificSource Health Plans PacificSource Health Plans of Idaho Personal Care Insurance of Illinois Physicians Health Plan of Northern Indiana, Inc. PreferredOne Insurance Company Premera Blue Cross Premera Blue Cross Blue Shield of Alaska Presbyterian Providence Health Plan QCA Health Plan Inc Regence BlueCross BlueShield of Oregon Regence BlueCross BlueShield of Utah Regence BlueShield of Washington Regence BlueShield of Idaho Rocky Mountain Health Plans SAS Insurance Development Scott & White Health Plan Security Life Insurance Company of America SelectHealth Standard Security Life Insurance Company SummaCare Inc of Ohio Total Dental Administrators Health Plan, Inc. UniCare Unity Health Insurance of Wisconsin UnitedHealthcare VSP Vista Healthplan of South Florida WellPath Select, Inc. WINhealth Partners WPS Health Insurance of Wisconsin Let the poor, huddled masses rot! Who are they to say we should have to pay for their health care. If they can’t afford to pay the premiums the insurance companies dictate, then let them go without. After all, this is capitalism working at its best. If they can’t pay their hospital bills let them forfeit their houses, cars, and savings! That commie, Jesus Christ started this whole “socialized medicine” thing when he healed the sick for free! Damn Commie! “Greed is good”!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
And good women and men did nothing, and greed did triumphed. Merry Christmas!!! ,,,,,, Bahhhhhhhh Humbug!!!! Show me the money!!!
Regards,
Ebenezer Scrooge

WAY TO GO
Aetna

Alliance Health and Life Insurance Company

Altius Health Plans

Altius One

American Family Life Assurance Company (Aflac)

American Medical Security Life Insurance Company

AmeriHealth – New Jersey

Ameritas

Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield of VA

Anthem Blue Cross and Blue Shield of CT

Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield of Missouri

Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield of Wisconsin

Anthem Blue Cross of California

Anthem BlueCross BlueShield

Arise Health Plan

Arkansas Blue Cross and Blue Shield

Asuris Northwest Health

Atlantis Health Plan

Avera Health Plans

Bay Dental

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Minnesota

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Oklahoma

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of South Carolina

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Texas

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Arizona

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Delaware

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Georgia

Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of New Mexico

Blue Cross of Idaho

Blue Shield of California

Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Illinois

BlueCross BlueShield of Kansas City

BlueCross BlueShield of Louisiana

BlueCross BlueShield of Montana

BlueCross BlueShield of Nebraska

BlueCross BlueShield of Tennessee

CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield

Celtic Ins. Co.

CIGNA

Clear Choice Health Plans

Companion Life Insurance Company

ConnectiCare Inc.

Coventry Health and Life Insurance Company

Coventry Health Care of Delaware, Inc

Coventry Health Care of Georgia, Inc.

Coventry Health Care of Iowa, Inc.

Coventry Health Care of Kansas Inc.

Coventry Health Care of Louisiana, Inc.

Coventry Health Care of Nebraska, Inc.

Coventry Health Care of Oklahoma Inc.

CoventryOne

Dean Health Plan, Inc.

Delta Dental

Empire

First Priority Life, administered by Blue Cross of NEPA

FirstCare

Fallon Community Health Plan

Geisinger Quality Options

Group Health

Group Health Incorporated

Group Health Plan

Health Net

Health Plan of Nevada

HealthAmerica

HealthPartners

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey

Humana

Independence Blue Cross

Kaiser Mid-Atlantic

Kaiser Permanente

KPS Health Plans

LifeWise Health Plan of Oregon

LifeWise Health Plan of Washington

Lovelace Health Plans

My Health Alliance

Medica

Medica of Minnesota

Medical Mutual of Ohio

Mercy Health Plans of Missouri

Mountain State BlueCross BlueShield

Nationwide Life Insurance Company

ODS Health Plan, Inc.

Optima Health Insurance Company

Oxford Health Plans, Inc.

PacifiCare

PacificSource Health Plans

PacificSource Health Plans of Idaho

Personal Care Insurance of Illinois

Physicians Health Plan of Northern Indiana, Inc.

PreferredOne Insurance Company

Premera Blue Cross

Premera Blue Cross Blue Shield of Alaska

Presbyterian

Providence Health Plan

QCA Health Plan Inc

Regence BlueCross BlueShield of Oregon

Regence BlueCross BlueShield of Utah

Regence BlueShield of Washington

Regence BlueShield of Idaho

Rocky Mountain Health Plans

SAS Insurance Development

Scott & White Health Plan

Security Life Insurance Company of America

SelectHealth

Standard Security Life Insurance Company

SummaCare Inc of Ohio

Total Dental Administrators Health Plan, Inc.

UniCare

Unity Health Insurance of Wisconsin

UnitedHealthcare

VSP

Vista Healthplan of South Florida

WellPath Select, Inc.

WINhealth Partners

WPS Health Insurance of Wisconsin

]]> By: pkl69 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-73297 pkl69 Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:07:07 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-73297 I am uninsured due to two pre-existing conditions. I expect I'll soon be priced out of insurance, which is why I'd have a lot more respect for you "progressives" if you were fighting for subsidies now instead of "kill the bill." But there's no point if discussing with people who are simply ideologues and unwilling to negotiate down the line. I am uninsured due to two pre-existing conditions. I expect I’ll soon be priced out of insurance, which is why I’d have a lot more respect for you “progressives” if you were fighting for subsidies now instead of “kill the bill.” But there’s no point if discussing with people who are simply ideologues and unwilling to negotiate down the line.

]]> By: Larue http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/10-reasons-to-kill-the-senate-bill/#comment-73281 Larue Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:30:27 +0000 http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=7689#comment-73281 Such a distraction. Proven that trial lawyering and suits are less or about 2% of all expenditures/costs of delivering healthcare. Whereas, 30% of private insurance goes to overhead and bonusing. You could ELIMINATE 30% of the cost of healthcare by eliminating private insurance. Simple. End of story. NEXT! Such a distraction. Proven that trial lawyering and suits are less or about 2% of all expenditures/costs of delivering healthcare.

Whereas, 30% of private insurance goes to overhead and bonusing. You could ELIMINATE 30% of the cost of healthcare by eliminating private insurance.

Simple.

End of story.

NEXT!

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