Some are calling this health care bill a “good bill.” Tom Harkin is trying to sell this bill as a “starter home” with a “solid foundation.” Those who think this Senate bill is built on a strong foundation are either too invested to acknowledge its complete failings or don’t understand the many key components missing from this bill that are necessary to produce a properly working system.
If this bill were truly a smaller but better built bill, I would be applauding the Democrats in the Senate. But this bill is built on a foundation of sand. Even if it looks like a good house from a distance, it will collapse during the next storm.
I do not know a single working health care system that is as full of problems, errors, loopholes, and massive giveaways as this bill will be. The systems this bill most closely resemble (Switzerland, Netherlands, Belgium and Germany) require millions of moving parts to make them work.
All other countries with a primarily private health insurance system require all health insurance companies to sell a precisely designed, high quality, basic insurance package. This Senate bill will give insurance companies huge leeway to design a confusing array of policies only within set actuarial value levels. The bill will also allow for the sale of junk insurance (60% actuarial value plans with an $11,900 out of pocket limit and “catastrophic” plans). This is a recipe for expanding coverage in name only. Keeping insurance companies from gaming the system is hard enough in other countries where they all sell a single plan. In this Senate bill with huge design leeways for plans, it will be next to impossible.
Another tool used to prevent insurers from gaming the system is a strong risk adjustment mechanism. Again, compared to other countries like Germany or the Netherlands, the bill is woefully lacking. The CBO and CMS said the risk adjustment mechanisms in the bill will not prevent premiums from increasing due to adverse selection. Without a stronger risk adjuster, insurers will still compete by trying to dump the sick and get the maximum number of healthy people enlisted instead of trying to compete with quality and customer service.
All the other systems have a central provider reimbursement negotiator. Without this (and the repeal of the anti-trust exemption) the system will be extremely wasteful and anti-competitive. Forcing each insurer to secretly negotiate payments with the thousands of providers is a recipe for waste, fraud, and abuse. It creates a snowballing effect making it nearly impossible for new insurers to break into new markets. The Netherlands, which has the toughest regulations of any country, is the only one that allows for-profit insurance companies to provide basic coverage. All others require, by law, which basic insurance must be sold on a nonprofit basis.
And the regulations in the bill are full of loopholes, perverse incentives, and passages that are open to wide legal interruption. The “community rating” age ratio is unconscionably high at 1:3. The few systems that allow insurers to charge older people more (most have one price for everyone) use a better system of age-based pricing bands. The policing apparatus needed in these other, better designed, systems is very large and their job is much easier. Regulations without strong oversight are worthless.
Where is the $40 billion needed to pay for a large federal policing force to make this system work? The bill simply tells the state insurance commissioners, which have completely failed us so far (and are often in bed with the insurance companies), to do it. It will be an enforcement nightmare.
What I outlined are only some of the most glaring missing critical components needed for a workable system. This Senate bill is the house built upon sand, unable to weather the coming storm.
I’m not some wild-eyed idealist angry that the Senate bill does not use the public option. If they offered the German, Belgium, or Dutch system I would sing its praises from the mountaintops. But what is being offered is doomed to an expensive fail, the question is only when and how.
Some have said this is a reform package that we can build on. However, it is not a starter home with a strong foundation (unless selling out women’s reproductive rights is the new definition of strong foundations). It is a house of cards built with massive corporate giveaways. I think it is a bill that further enriches, empowers, and entrenches the enemies of reform.
To use another metaphor, I hope every progressive looks under the hood before they buy this lemon. It may look ok at first glance, but I promise you the engine is rusted out completely. At the very least, remove the individual mandate so it can be held as a bargaining chip by progressives to extract greater reforms between now and 2015, when the mandate would go into effect. Passing the individual mandate now (just so it can sit on the books for years) would be a political and negotiating disaster for Democrats. As it looks now, the next reform battle will be fought on the terms of the insurance companies even more. That is not what I think is a step forward.



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I really appreciate all the hard work you’ve put into reporting on this cursed mess.
agreed:
The mandate must come out. Only by doing that will we get a reliable partner in any effort to bring the bill back for a ‘fix:’ the insurance companies, whose money will ensure the program gets opened up again. Whether we can get done what we need is another story; at least another bite at the apple will be guaranteed, though, if the mandate is missing from the bill Obama signs next month.
Thanks, Jon, for all your efforts. You have made things abundantly clear just when I was ready to throw up my hands in despair of ever understanding what was happening.
yes, yes. thank you for all your analysis and reportage Jon
with every new turn or twist, we have been able to drive (or at some points push) this beast in to the garage, put it on the lift and have a good look – swears it looks like they used bubblegum and putty for some welds.
no thanks, no sale
and some castles in the sand fall in the sea. . . eventually
Another great piece, on. I just can’t understand while people like Sanders and Feingold just won’t dig their heels in to insist that the mandates be removed from this bill. If thst breaks the 60-vote frame, so what? Reid and Obama can use reconciliation. Have you got any theories on why people like Sanders and Feingold won’t do that?
lets –
Captain Obvious here, but looks to me like Sanders took the Community Healthcare Center provisions and ran – which tells me Reid perceived Sanders to be a real threat to the all important 60
December 20, 2009
OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
Why the Senate Should Vote Yes on Health Care
By JOE BIDEN
Washington – “IF I were still a United States senator, I would not only vote yes on the current health care reform bill, I would do so with the sure knowledge that I was casting one of the most historic votes of my 36 years in the Senate. I would vote yes knowing that the bill represents the culmination of a struggle begun by Theodore Roosevelt nearly a century ago to make health care reform a reality. And while it does not contain every measure President Obama and I wanted, I would vote yes for this bill certain that it includes the fundamental, essential change that opponents of reform have resisted for generations…”
Entire Article can be read @:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/opinion/20biden.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print
BIDEN is another SCOUNDREL!!!!
People forget about this sleaze Biden in conversing about the Dems. This Biden guy couldn’t ever get more than TWO PERCENT of the VOTE in Democratic Party primaries. This Biden guy is sleaze from start to finish…
It’s obvious the Obama administration from this Op-Ed to Victoria Reggie Kennedy’s Op-Ed in the Washington Post today is trying to CONVINCE PEOPLE OF THIS AWFUL BILL AND TRYING TO COUNTER HOWARD DEAN AS WELL.
foundation of sand or foundation of slime?
Suppose you are a Washington Elite this bill is meant to save the insurance companies by forcing millions of Americans to pay higher prices for bad coverage.
Obviously France, Canada etc give you more bang for your buck so if healthcare were really the goal we would just copy their plans.
But Healthcare is not the goal Corporate Welfare is if we give the insurance companies all this cash would they be able to survive a second banking crisis?
(Lets assume as a given a second banking crisis is coming banks are still doing all the stupid things that got them in trouble in the first place and Obama is not stopping them.)
The answer is no because the insurance companies are still invested in the banks.
As long as banks keep gamboling there will be another banking crisis and as long as insurance companies invest with them they will lose money too.
So even by the warped goals of Washington’s Elite’s this plan is a failure.
It isn’t
David Gregory on Meet the Press this morning used language like “foundation for reform.”
The public option was supposed to be the foundation for reform.
That “Socialist” Bernie Sanders is now exposed as nothing but a FRAUD….
A true “socialist” would not vote yes to this pro-corporate, pro-capitalist and very, very Anti-Egalitarian healthcare bill.
People like Bernie Sanders make me as sick as people like Joe Lieberman. This goes for Russ Feingold, Barbara Boxer, Patty Murray, and all other fakes in the Democratic Party Senate, whom claim to be “Feminists” and “progressives.”
It has never been made clear by Harry Reid why he dropped the use of reconciliation to get a more progressive/less corporate form of the so-called Health Care Reform bill through the Senate. Could it be the same reason that single-payer was criminalized and ruled out of order before health care hearings even started? In other words, the Obama Administration had already sold us down the river, and thus preferred to go through the motion of considering the public option or a Medicare-buyin, but actually preferred a Giant Christmas Gift to private insurance corporations all along…
Sanders, Feingold, Boxer, Murray are senators first, ready to capitulate at a moments notice when the leadership demands it, and progressives second.
Whatever superstructure plans that might, maybe, one day, kinda-sorta be scheduled for a meeting about a timetable proposal, would reside comfortably in the presumptive 2nd Obama term. As the last crew might say, “cans have been kicked”.
And anyway, the entire grift-pile will be scrapped in disgust by any administration actually serious about positive and transformative health care policy in this country.
An excellent point that bears repeating. Public health systems that work – and which rely on private insurers as the system’s payment mechanism – are ones where the state tightly regulates the terms of that insurance. In turn, that limits costs as well as profits – a circumstance businesses that choose to issue such insurance voluntarily accept. (If they wanted more lavish profits, they would choose another line of work.)
Here, profits drive the system and the state enables them. The public welfare becomes irrelevant except in rhetoric.
The politicians are slapping each other on the butt over the job done on the health care bill. We wanted single payer but we had to settle for a public option….oh wait.
Our politicians do not give a crap about what progressives want. When the head of the party cuts a secret deal with the corporations and then takes his supporters on a months long congressional kabuki soap opera, only to tell us that members of his own party made him screw us, is all you need to know about where we are going by blindly supporting this team.
Don’t get me wrong I voted for Obama. But now I am completely over the expectation that he was the second coming of Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt. At best, he is only going to do what we make him do.
The health care bill is a classic. He is giving us his prepacked deal that we do not want and is offended when we are not excited about it and keep working to make it less of a give away. Go figure.
When the leader of the party will not make a good faith effort to make good on his promises, we have a problem that cannot be solved by giving more money and support to his party. Progressives have created this moral hazard by always absolving the political sins of the politicians we elect in return for meager concessions and empty promises.
Meanwhile, it appears that the new administration is hell bent on completing the Bush agenda of privatizing the whole government. Bernake thinks that social security is where the next pile of money that the corporations want is being stored. The POTUS wants corporations to get tax dollars to run government mandated insurance . We even have a private army that costs more and none of the leaders of the administration think that this is a bad idea. I can go on and on, but I won’t.
If you want to be part of a political party that is not in the business of only extorting money from corporations, but instead wants to make the progressive wish list start to come true, we need a big change in the way we deal with politicians. We need to start supporting individual politicians and make sure we get what we voted for. Trust but verify should be the new mantra for progressives. I no longer donate to the party. When asked to donate I say I only donate to and support politicians that I trust. And I do not care what this means for the party. Been there done that.
We need to work hard on changing the party. The only way to do this is to stack the deck by keeping the good and removing the bad. Working to get progressive dems elected is a good start. It is not the whole answer – we have done good work in this endeavor and look at what we now have. The only way we can break the suction between the corrupt politicians and the money is to take them out. If we cannot primary them out we should support his/her opponent even if it is a repub. I know this is heresy, but if a repub knows we put him/her in that same repub knows we can take him/her out. We might get better repubs with this tactic as well. Just think about the message this sends.
Not all dems are bad, but the name of the game is to take out the bad dems so we never have to deal with a party leadership that can screw the base and get away with it. I see no gain in rewarding a system that uses its majority as a middle man to transfer wealth to corporations for personal gain. I just cannot support this any longer. Being results oriented and party agnostic when it comes time to vote will go along way to fixing the mess we now have.
I have heard every kind of excuse to toe the party line. I do not know about you, but I am sick of getting screwed by democrats. I don’t care how good the excuse is. When politicians vote for money and not for principle no excuse is necessary because none is acceptable.
So far progressives do not seem to have the courage to walk away form a bad deal. Obama can not go back on his deal or deals with big business. Because of this, not much change we can believe in will happen, so we need to get our game face on and get into the post Obama mind set. Until we quit supporting politicians that lie to us we will never get anything meaningful from government.
Finally, the fact that Obama is not Bush when it feels like Bush is very disconcerting. I know that the professional democrats do not like to hear this. I keep reading excuses that sound like: “We should take it easy on our dear leader because he is working eleven layer chess. We need to wait longer for him to get things right. He is learning, just keep your hopes up and things will turn out fine. We have to take what we can get. Corrupt dems are better then any repubs. It is imposable to address the needs of the ordinary citizens until the to big to fail are stabilized.“ In the mean time, keep sending money.
I remember how long we kept our powder dry after the elections in 2006. I guess we are going to use all that powder to celebrate the fantastic health care bill that the administration cooked up last spring.
Our country is too large and too economically disparate for even the Swiss or Dutch system to work. Undoubtedly the plan will fail. The only question is how, and how much pain will working families suffer in the process.
The bill is actually designed to get worse over time. Subsidies are not indexed to health inflation. Meanwhile the definition of affordability is (bizarrely) indexed to health inflation, so it gets harder to avoid the mandate penalty. I can’t believe a Democratic President and Congress are going to pass such a crappy bill.
Here’s what Barbara Boxer tells me:
Alluding to Sen. Harkin’s projection and promise of a future Dubai of Healthcare?
sand. with slime as mortar.
If she votes for it, she loses my vote next year.
All those wonderful things she’s talking about aren’t really there, because the insurance companies can – and will – do what they please.
I know. Who will you vote for??? Carlyfornia?
I once suggested, to the horror of my friends, that we should infiltrate the Republican party. After all, if we must have Repub presidents, at least we should have some say in who they would be.
Instead, real Republicans have actually infiltrated the Democratic party, and we are all suffering as a result.
I could get on board with supporting the opposition. Every one needs an occasional Reality Check. Especially the current crop of Dems in office.
Clearly, I must be too subversive to be taken seriously. ;~)
Apparently, Tom Harkin considers a favela as a community of starter homes.
There is some merit in that. The tin roofs, boards, and other pieces can be easily found and reused. And even houses in favelas have be improved into something substantial over a period of years.
I don’t see a foundation at all. Just a lot of tacked up building materials that might keep out a little rain.
Sounds like a good description. Except you paid $40,000 for those pieces of stray building material and $2,000 a month for rent.
Apparently they have all been instructed to take one for the team…
Franken has a post over a DK cheering on the Senate bill as being the first step toward “universal health care”, without providing any details about how that could be.
I wanted to ask him to outline exactly how that will play out based on this bill filled with corporate giveaways and compromises. But there were too many ridiculous comments to hope of getting that one read.
How in the world can he honestly say this? Unbelievable…
Here are Olbermann and Wendell Potter on the health care sell-out. They pretty much destroy Obama and the Democrats attempts to spin and lie. We are going to be inundated with bs about Obama and the Dems great accomplishment; so get an umbrella and rain coat.
“Senate Bill a Big Win for Insurance Companies,” Countdown with Keith Olbermann, December 16, 2009
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#34455097
To me the two main clues that the Senate bill is a travesty are:
1) Wendell Potter says that millions more Americans will go bankrupt with this bill and
2) the soaring health care stocks… highest surge in 52 years according to HuffPo headline this morning.
No manner of orchestrated cheering can turn this into lemondade.
He can’t and I am not going to vote for him again.
Sold out in 6 months, that must be a record.
i still dont see how this works for an unemployed person about to lose COBRA.
they have a pre-existing condition and take a statin and asthma medicine.
what does this bill do for them?
catastrophic guarantee issue at an exorbitant rate???
no real coverage until 2014.
pay for drugs out of pocket at four times what the same drugs cost in Canada?
How about the HOUSE bill, where section 113 makes COBRA extension permanent and without limit in time; until the exchanges start.
My health insurance plan is a debit card and a good immune system, knock on wood. Together with exercise and an organic, largely vegetarian diet. Besides, I qualify for V.A. and will qualify for Medicare next year.
So I personally don’t have a dog in this fight — at least today.
What I see as a somewhat disinterested observer is the utter corruption of the WH, Senate, and House by corporate money.
Why anyone here will vote for either of the two major parties in 2010 or 2012 is beyond me. I’m also way beyond Democrats are better than Republicans.
Here’s what I’m planning to do: Register as a Republican so I can vote for Palin in the Connecticut primary. Then do what I can to see she gets the Republican nomination. Assuming she or some other R-wacko gets the nomination, then work like hell to get someone like Howard Dean elected by a coalition of Dems, Indies, Libs, and Repubs.
Good question…
I’ve already written Boxer and Feinstein that they lose my vote if they vote for the bill. I’m not aware of any candidate coming forward to primary Boxer, though. If need be, I’ll undervote the Senate race.
Maybe not tactically the best move, but I refuse to hold my nose and hang the chad for the lesser of evils any more.
Sounds like a great strategy to me to go out and fight the guy who is trying to warn you that you’re making a huge mistake. There was this one guy in the campaign last year who thought politicians should be open to listening to all sides, even those who disagreed and think about it so we could get better results. He also talked about open negotiations on C-SPAN so the public could see who was saying what and there would be accountability. What an idiot! Whatever happened to that guy, anyway?
If I didn’t know better, I’d think that Congress’s approaches to health care reform were deliberately designed to fail. It’s hard to imagine it working. They should have extended Medicaid and made presence of nonprofits mandatory in the exchanges. If they’d stopped there, these would at least have been useful changes that would have benefited someone besides the insurance industry. But the mandates, the balkanized health care financing, and ridiculous lack of real regulation is going to make this thing worse than our current situation.
I didn’t think that was possible when we started this process. It’s nice to know I can still be wrong.
He turned out to be the con artist some of us always imagined him to be.
That’s capitalism for you, pushing for ever more excellence through competition. Add enough money to the problem and stiff competition to get that money and you can improve your sell-out results exponentially and in record time!
I actually do think the goal is to take down the current system to some extent. All of the policies have a common theme, other than to enrich insurance, which is to push toward a system of more direct consumer payment. You may have heard various Republicans arguing that this would bring costs down because consumers would know what things cost and have to decide whether to do it based on the money in their own pockets. Apparently, no one but us schmucks who have to pay cash for our medical care have noticed that cash pay has actually become more expensive because of insurance company involvment. They negotiate volume perks and put things in their contracts that make it very difficult for providers to give breaks to cash pay patients, which makes sense to the middlemen who don’t want to be cut out of the paystream. So now you have them still there, and with even more incentive to game the system because patients and providers have even less ability to cut them out if they are screwing up too badly or getting too greedy, but you are passing more of the cost of their screwing up the system to the sick people. Kind of reminds me of our solution to the financial system collapse.
When I die, I want to be reincarnated as a corporate entity in America.
The progressives have no “power of ‘no’,” like you suggested.
Vote Green, CharlieFoxtrot. That always gets them going!
Book Salon up at the Mothership with John Dean’s Blind Ambition: The End of the Story hosted by Rick Perlstein
Could be. Just can’t figure why he would sell out so cheaply. What about Feingold? What did he get.
Health care reform is good but lets put some common sense in the mix and take the time to see what it all means.
Why don’t you and all your email friends send emails to these jerks until they get the message that their careers are in peril if they vote yes on this load of crap. I send at least one a day to as many as I can find address’s for. Especially the ones coming up for reelection in 2010. Think they really want to lose their jobs.
She has to believe that you would vote for Carlyfornia. I am also in CA. What I have told them is that I would rather have Republicans who at least don’t lie to me about it in addition to screwing me over. I also pointed out that Republican regimes at the height of the conservative movement never managed to do this much to thwart abortion rights on a national scale or to advance crony capitalism on this scale, so again, it looked like I would actually be better off with a Republican Senate. If I was mistaken, I expected them to prove it to me, not just argue it to me when the facts speak for themselves.
Hi all.
Been digging out from a massive snowstorm like many others I guess, but we did hammered (nearly 2 FEET of snow here in western Loudoun County, VA). But wanted to pop in and plead with all reading this to email and call (BOTH) your Senator to urge them to vote no on the Senate Bill. I’ve done so with mine about three times now.
I won’t bullshit you and say it’ll do any good. But if enough of us do it, well it just might. So, email your Senators today, and take a couple of minutes tomorrow to call their office urging them to vote no. Please.
The Senate bill is not only much worse than the House bill (which isn’t all that great), but it’s also much worse than nothing. I hope that together maybe we can take down the Senate bill. Probably less than a 1% chance of doing it, but this bill is so bad we’ve gotta fight for that less than 1% chance.
And THANK YOU JON, for once again staying on top of the situation and writing about it fairly. All the folks here at the Lake are so good at reading through the bullshit and keeping us informed. Best damned site on the internet, IMO. Thank you ALL.
But this bill is built on a foundation of sand. Even if it looks like a good house from a distance, it will collapse during the next storm.
But you forget the obvious:
There is hope that there will be no storm. And there is hope that there will be no high tide tonight.
With hope, all things are positive.
This will be the critical smoke and the mirrors, the fog machine undermining whatever rationalizations Democrats come up with to support this wretched “compromise”. What the legislation calls progressive change is meaningless if the gap between what the words say on the bill Obama signs and how they are acted out down on the ground is a gaping chasm. And when that happens you won’t have the concentrated attention on healthcare that we have now. Instead, the horror stories will start to pop up as we learn what the “reforms” really begat for people struggling to keep their health care needs from toppling their families over into the ditch. Or the abyss.
But only on the Ed, Keith and Rachel shows, of course. And in places like this. Don’t expect David Gregory and his ilk to be spotlighting it in the mainstream media.
They will have moved on to examining how Obama’s rejection of EFCA is a progressive victory for workers.
They have the power of “no,” but they just won’t say it. I guess it’s more important to them to be nice guys.
And don’t forget CHANGE!
In a few million years the sand will change into solid rock.
Cost Containment??
The requirement for insurance companies to payout 85% of premiums is being touted by Senators Franken, Rockefeller and Boxer among many others, as a cost containment measure. I challenge all those Frankens etc. to explain to the American people what, if anything, is contained in either the House or Senate bills that will prevent the following scenario from playing out.
Given: There is a mandate for all Americans to purchase health insurance.
Given: Those of lesser economic means will have their premiums subsidized by the taxpayers.
Given: We are all individual purchasers and also taxpayers (we pay the subsidies).
Given: The insurance companies must spend 85% of premiums collected on health care.
Given: There is no limit set by either bill on the amount the insurance companies can charge for premiums.
What is to prevent the insurance company from raising the price of the premiums by 10X?
The individuals (who have to purchase insurance) can’t afford that, so, we all trot on down to our local Federal Insurance Welfare Office and sign up for subsidies. Of course that is an intrusive, time-consuming exercise because we have to disclose to the Federal Government all our financial and personal information in order to qualify.
Those individuals who refuse to participate and don’t buy insurance are now lawbreakers, “on the lam”, waiting for the government to find out and send their henchmen to collect.
Meanwhile, the insurance companies tell the docs and hospitals (the real healthcare providers) that now the $100k reimbursement bills they used to submit and get paid only $20k will now be paid in full. The healthcare providers love that so they are all for it. The insurance companies instead of being allowed to keep 85% of $1 trillion now get to keep 85% of $10 trillion. The individual pays the same in out of pocket premiums but is on welfare and the taxpayer is stuck with paying the monumentally huge subsidies.
Come on Franken, Rockefeller, anyone who is claiming this 85% rule will contain costs, explain how this contains costs and is not just another wealth transfer from the taxpayers to a specific oligopoly just like with the bank/wall street “bailout”/ i.e.wealth transfer.
they all have to sell out
been saying that for years on these blogs
the system is gamed that they must sell out to get reelected.
it takes $$$$$$$$ and lots of it to win elections
and who has that $$$$$$$$$$
corp fascism has arrived on the shores of america
while americans shopped till they dropped
jane keeps telling us the system is gamed
few listen to her
love her
she does not ban me like huff post for my comments on capitalism :-)
capitalism the biggest fraud ever given to humanity.
it is just doing its thing and very well indeed
and we whine like babys when it does
even most progressives love capitalism
the mind that thinks in dualistic terms is ignorance in action.
in my younger years it was capitalism or communism now it is socialism or capitalism
the have mores know exactly how to fleece the have nots with their fear based approach
now you have nots get back to work with those two jobs so the have mores can have more.
plus we will need to bail out wall street again with the have nots money to keep the have mores ever more in wealth.
merry christmas
at least no christian is a capitalist
the devil himself or herself could not have designed a more evil system than capitalism that leads to greed, unfair competition, cheap labor, corp fascism, corrupt politicans, wars for profits, corrupt banks, corrupt wall street, industrial military complex, mega profits off the sick and needy, homeless, overflowing prisons, and the wealth in the hands of the few who get every more corrupt, the list is long.
capitalism had to come from man as it goes against every spiritual or cosmic law that I know of.
few will understand my words, very few
at least jane does not ban me, thanks for that.
how can anyone be so pretty and so smart????????
Kill The Bill Baby Kill The Bill!#!@!
The Senate bill is the “house of sand and fog” with nothing inside but “smoke & Mirrors”…..it’s a carnival “funhouse” filled with a closet of horrors.
We never had a chance. The whores who ruined any chance of a good bill prevailed because other Dems that allowed this travesty didn’t want to jeopardise their chances of being able to be whores when the need arises. Fuck you assholes, hope you can find someone to make up for my vote next elections. I bailed from the republican party because of Nixon, now I’m gone from a system that destroys our democracy. Not a good move? Why not? There is no avenue for fixing the system unless the whores who are politicians fix if themselves, fat chance of that happening. I can always hope Jane or Feingold or someone else can provide the leadership we are so sorely lacking, but it is a huge task.
If our Senate makes it so blatant that they serve the corporations and place their needs above those of the people they represent, it’s time to reformulate this government entirely.
This Congress will go down in history as the very worst Congress EVER in ths history of this country.
Sadly, this administration isn’t looking much better right now and will deserve the same fate if they do not do as they promised, regardless of what Congress does.
Bush was a tyrant and hated by the american people but at least he threatened to veto a bill with it was nothing but empty $hit.
Dems are now the new Republicans up to their eyeballs in corporate graft – time to check their freezers because you know they’re full of cash under the table.
which is precisely why we will never have a chance to correct this corrupt, criminal system of payoffs for votes…..the very people getting filthy rich from the payoffs they get from lobbyist whores are the ones who we need to draft the legislation.
We now can all see how incredibly wrong this system of government is and need to proceed to demand change.
Unless we have “campaign finance reform” via “term limits” we’re screwed by these corporate prostitutes.
Or Obama is twisting their arms.
there is rate-control mechanism that they have a few years to perfect.
What part of first step don’t you understand. Germany has had universal health care since before world war I.
Weren’t we supposed to get the CBO scoring of this Senate lemon last week? Where is it?
One way to make the point very effectively that the American people are getting screwed would be to compare the CBO scoring of:
No CBO score of this latest Senate lemon?
Ok.
Let’s start focusing on that fact. Let’s demand the score and ask why we never got it. There must be many, many references in media reports just over a week ago that would show that the American people were expecting to get it early last week.
Could it be that the score was so bad relative to the scores on the other bills that Reid and the White House are trying to cover it up?
Yesterday, Jon wrote:
Remember the loopholes that were discovered and about which Jon wrote so much on Dec 11? They were entirely about finding ways to screw the American people on health care reform in order to be able to more effectively sell them a lemon.
And why are we still in the dark about the details of the Senate’s latest lemon?
Let’s frame dissatisfaction in terms of the insidiousness of the way in which these failures are going about screwing over the American people on health care and playing with the process in order to manipulate them into buying the lemon.
Thanks for the headsup Peterboy. Is the rate-control on the House or senate bill or both? I will definitely review it.
I saw Mr. Axelrod, and half a dozen Senators on various Sunday morning shows. Each was trying to sell a package that seems too full of holes to me.
This is first time that EVERY Republican who appeared today made more sense to me than EVERY Democrat. The basic Republican point is that there are too many unanswered questions. There are. Yes, I know that the GOP is largely responsible for the slogging pace this bill has endured. But so have a number of conserva-dems, blue dogs et. al.
As I see the bill…..here are the nagging questions.
a) If competition is the key to forcing down costs, where is the competition.? No public option, no wide-spread exchange, no under 65 medicare.
b) The preexisting condition exclusion currently exercised by insurers is stricken BUT insurance companies are permitted to charge premiums many times the going rate. How is the individual to afford this? It looks like fakery and window dressing to me.
c) Lots of noise about no lifetime cap on benefits, BUT an annual cap is permitted. One excludes the other. No one is fooled.
d) Pharmaceutical companies continue to be able to sell drugs at elevated prices when compared to the world market.
e) No tort reform which is the key to cutting down unnecessary, defensive treatment of patients.
f) Medical corporations that own so many of our hospitals are allowed to continue practices that destroy patient finances and personal lives.
The financing of this bill seems dubious. Cutting 500 billion, how and where- no generalities…name the spots. Taxing high-end coverage plans, that hits the unions whose workers look to their medical coverage as one of the most significant attractors for their workers.
Who approves of this bill? Less than 40 percent in ANY poll. Who loves this bill? The insurers, look at Wall Street and see how investors are rushing to buy shares. What did it take to get this bill to the doorstep….compromise of essential principles (public option, taxing top income earners), give-aways to states (like Louisiana and Nebraska) and cover for those in Big Insurance, Big Pharma, Big Attorney and Big Medical Corporation pockets. And most politicians belong to one of those.
I am sorry. I am a faithful democrat. I worked hard for Obama. I have donated generously to the Party and its candidates.
I am ready to be convinced. Convince me.
see this link:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/19/us/politics/1119-plan-comparison.html#tab=8
the fourth item on the Senate side is thing. But it can be improved with a 90% medical loss ratio.
Who among us are willing to refuse the mandate and refuse to pay a tax penalty for refusing the mandate? If only . . .
The “audacity of change” will forevermore be met with shrieks of laughter.
And we will go to the dictionary and the definition of change will include, “to move forward by moving backward”
The analogy I’ve been using is this:
The Senate bill is NOT a starter home.
The Senate bill is like buying a fancy vacation home for the insurance industry while there are millions of Americans who are healthcare-homeless or being evicted because they cannot afford their
mortgage paymentspremiums.The Senate bill is based on the assumption that when Americans get sick and need shelter that the insurance industry will invite them in and give them a room in either their publicly financed mansions or vacation homes.
Do you trust the insurance industry to take you in?
This bill is not a starter home. It is a government mandated transfer of health care resources from American workers to an industry whose business model is to deny access to health care.
Sanders, Feingold, Franken, et. al., will vote for any bill & Obama will sign any bill. They have to support the party you know. Why would principles matter? It is the same mentality the Republicans have. Progressives have no power because the other side knows they will never stand for anything at the end of the corrupted process. Is it just a quirk that there have been zero compromises. The corporate owned Democrats have removed anything the insurance industry wanted removed. Progressives do what they always do best-CAVE. Until an Independent becomes POTUS, the corporations will continue writing the bills, just as they have the health bill.
Found the CBO score for this Senate lemon (pdf). Came out a few days later than I think most people were expecting. My quesions now revolve around the score itself.
Can I convince you the Democratic wing of the American Corporate Party drops more crumbs on the floor than the Republican wing? Just as the early, commanding generals of the Union forces in the Civil War refused to use their soldiers to win, progressives do the same. Unfortunately, the “Grants” are not allowed to be our presidential candidate.
I remarked on another thread that any “foundation” is not being built on solid ground, but rather in the 8 foot deep hole that’s been blasted in the earth by the Democratic meteorite.
It’s gonna be hard to get back up to ground level when starting that far down in a hole.
Oh, and the Dems gave away [or sold] all the shovels.
What were the comments like on Franken’s site?
Shameful that he’s turned into such a sell-out.
You’re right about the Senate representing corporations now, which is why we’re in the sad situation that we’re in today. But this began almost 97 years ago with the passage of that absolute disaster known as the 17th Amendment.
Those who pushed for the 17th Amendment in those days told us that it was “more democratic” to elect Senators through a popular vote. While the method of election may seem more “democratic”, the results are just the opposite. The senators don’t even care about us anymore.
There are two ways to fix this: 1. repeal the 17th Amendment, or 2. require 100% public financing for all US Senate campaigns (no donations period). Both would require a constitutional amendment. Hard to see either one happening. :(
I think the phrase “who could have anticipated” is being warmed up at this very moment.
Exactly. What these morons (politicians) don’t understand is that insurance companies don’t operate on the “good honor system”. They don’t care about people… it’s all about their $$$. Why would they admit sick people if they’re not forced to?
I’m new at the site. Nice to see some hard hitting responses to the outrageous insurance deferential bill. The question is how do we get our fellow Americans to come out in droves, into the streets, and protest this
crap. The problem all this time has been that the hopey changey Messiah president worked up the masses fever pitch to BELIEVE in him with a kind of religious fervor, but he has slowly but surely been unmasked for what he is–just a politician in bed with the corporate sector. I applaud Tavis Smiley on Meet the Press today for talking about PRINCIPLES.. and how Obama has seemed to have abandoned them… and that fellow Marcos from KOS didn’t mince words about the bill and its gift to insurance companies.. Add in the appearance of Howard Dean and it was a feast of criticism of Obamacare..I hate to quote the Republicans, but on that they have it right. Obamacare is NO care. It’s corporate welfare.
You all have it right, and when Sanders caved and took his bundle to Vermont, I was never so pissed. Next, came Feingold, and surely Burris will cave. Harkin is another sellout. Problem is there are no balls on the HILL just a bunch of castrati.
What can he do to twist their arms to get them selling out on this bill?
That’s no answer. Sanders isn’t even in the freakin’ Party. And Feingold has frequently made very inconvenient votes. As for Franken, I expect he’ll be a real lion some day. Why not now?
“People like Bernie Sanders make me as sick as people like Joe Lieberman. This goes for Russ Feingold, Barbara Boxer, Patty Murray, and all other fakes in the Democratic Party Senate, whom claim to be “Feminists” and “progressives.”
Don’t forget Big Al. You know, the uber progressive, Big Al Franken.
Corruption rules. Until the majority of people realize this fact and shuck their Battered Wife Syndrome (meek, mild, ass kissing, obedient no matter how badly treated), get damn pissed off about it and then coalesce - we will continue to be treated like dirt.