Glenn Greenwald and Ed Kilgore both have very good pieces up today on the impoverished left/right dialectic that dominates the media coverage of politics, and its inadequacy when it comes to discussing the dynamics of the health care debate. The sight of pundits yucking it up about the “Democratic circular firing squad” have become as tedious and threadbare as those counseling “don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.” Both of these admonitions have at their heart the notion that “liberals” are being irrational, unreasonable and rigid in refusing to accept the Senate health care bill.
But in the very next breath, they will then promote statistics that say the tea parties are more popular than either the Democratic or the Republican party, and wonder if it’s an opportune time for a third party candidate. (From the “right,” of course, because who would take the “left” seriously.) At no time do the synapses firing in their brains make the connection that both the “lazy progressive bloggers” and the tea party activists are saying almost the exact same thing about the Senate bill.
Ben Smith printed a letter from a “liberal blog denizen” (who curiously didn’t want to use their name) that I think represents the White House/media thinking pretty well:
The trick is to put a package together that some visible element of “the left” is out there opposing, but that actually has the support of everyone who matters on the left. SEIU isn’t opposing the bill. NAACP isn’t opposing the bill. Important thought-leaders like Paul Krugman aren’t opposing the bill. Surf over to MoveOn.org and you’ll see they’re highlighting some “f*** you Joe Lieberman” stuff, but not seriously trying to push liberal Senators to vote “no” (indeed, during an earlier iteration of the argument they espoused the view that any filibustering Democrat deserve a primary challenge.). But members who want to feel like they’re doing some meaningful triangulation get to point to Jane Hamsher on MSNBC denouncing the whole thing and feel like they’re getting one over on the left.
This is probably the most useful role that the existence of a large and feisty activist blogosphere can play during a non-election time. Their existence and their passion shift the whole public conversation to the left. They make it possible for governing from the center to be *seen as governing from the center* rather than having a replay of the Clinton years when centrist governance came to define the left-most pole of the possible.
I read that letter and marveled that this is the thinking of the White House. And yet, I think it is. It’s got the blueprint for holding the “veal pen” captive, and then triangulating against those (bloggers) whose financial structures make them much more responsive to populist sentiment – and hence difficult to neuter. It’s the only way that lashing out at Howard Dean and coddling Joe Lieberman — something guaranteed to galvanize the netroots instantly — makes any sense.
Because blogs/Dean have been needling the White House’s health care shell game, they’ve turned their attention toward discrediting those messengers and trying to use it to their advantage. I understand the impulse — when you go into a comment thread of a blog post, the person who disagrees with you is the one who is going to get the emotional rise out of you. But it’s a huge mistake to overweight that, because you wind up doing what the White House is doing right now: standing with their backs to a tsunami rising over their heads, of which Howard Dean and the blogs are only a small symbol.
And the media, who are eagerly lapping up attacks on Dean and the crumbs being tossed out of the White House press office, only reinforce that blindness.
There is an enormous, rising tide of populism that crosses party lines in objection to the Senate bill. We opposed the bank bailouts, the AIG bonuses, the lack of transparency about the Federal Reserve, “bailout” Ben Bernanke, and the way the Democrats have used their power to sell the country’s resources to secure their own personal advantage, just as the libertarians have. In fact, we’ve worked together with them to oppose these things. What we agree on: both parties are working against the interests of the public, the only difference is in the messaging.
Harry Reid and Dick Durbin put on a nice show for the credulous. As Durbin said when he was trying to build his email list, “The question is no longer if we will have some sort of public option in the final health care reform bill, but instead what form it will take.” But the very same day, he was also warning about “60 votes” on MSNBC, and it was Durbin who whipped Lieberman’s vote for PhRMA to kill Dorgan’s drug reimportation bill (after Harry Reid kept it off the floor for seven days until PhRMA could twist enough arms to defeat it).
The end is the same as it was when Medicare Part D passed. Remember how Democrats made a big show of passing negotiation for prescription drug prices when they knew George Bush would veto it? We saw how long that lasted. When it comes to true differences in the parties, only the set dressing on the road to capitulation seems to change.
With unemployment at 10%, the idea that you can pass a bill whose only merit is that “liberals hate it” just because the media will eat it up and print your talking points in the process is so cynical and short-sighted it’s hard to comprehend anyone would pursue it. It reflects a total insensitivity to the rage that is brewing on the popular front, which is manifest in every single poll out there.
Yet time and again, we’re told “Obama retains his popularity with liberals” and that “screeching liberal bloggers” aren’t having an impact. Nobody seems to notice that the “screeching liberal bloggers” are reflecting the very same sentiments of the vast majority of the country, whether the very small segment of the population who self-identify as “extremely liberal” holds the President responsible or no.
Rahm Emanuel has managed to convince enough of the people that any inadequacies in this bill will be forgotten if the Dems can claim a “w” and pass any piece of shit health care bill. And that if Congress just spends 2010 naming post offices, any objections that Americans might have to paying 8% of their incomes to private corporations who will use the IRS as their collection agencies will just disappear.
It’s scary to think that people this obscenely stupid are running the country. All the while, the painfully obvious left/right transpartisan consensus that is coalescing against DC insiders of both parties appears to be taking everyone by surprise.


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Jane, I don’t think it’s stupidity. I just think that they don’t give a damn about the voters. They treat people like sheep and really only worry about campaign cash and keeping big lobby groups off their backs.
Now, this isn’t to say that Rahm Emanuel isn’t obscenely stupid because he is. However, I was speaking in more general terms.
For my patients to live, the Senate’s insurance bill must die.
For the Republic to live, the DC insiders’ careers must die. Hope their political destruction comes soon enough for the rest of us to survive.
Oh yes. Oh, oh yes…
Thank you for these words. It calms me no end to know that I’m not crazy for feeling the same way. Maybe even calm enough to be taken off the moderation list? :-)
It’s scary to think that people this obscenely stupid are running the country.
I just wanted to highlight your sentence again. Obscenely stupid. It boggles the mind.
BTW, just a minor point, it was Dorgan’s reimportation amendment not Durbin’s.
I agree Kirk. As a business owner and someone who has some understanding of economics, I wonder where people will get the disposable income to do do much of anything. A lot of businesses will collapse if we let the health insurance companies continue to soak us.
This is a lame argument
http://firedoglake.com/
Megan McCardle looks at the liberal revolt over LieberCare and thinks so.
This was not a failure of political will or political skill. It was the manifestation of a political reality that has long been obvious to everyone who wasn’t living in a fantasy world. If progressives decide that the lesson from this is that they haven’t been sufficiently demanding and intransigent, they are going to find themselves about as popular with the rest of America as the Bush Republicans, and probably lose their party the House next year.
“If progressives decide that the lesson from this is that they haven’t been sufficiently demanding and intransigent, they are going to find themselves about as popular with the rest of America as the Bush Republicans, and probably lose their party the House next year.’
60% of Americans SUPPORT A PUBLIC OPTION. This is not about the progressives. Forget the progressives this is about what 60% of Americans support.
JANE, It’s absurdly & patently wrong to “think that people this obscenely stupid are running the country.” It achieves nothing & often less. Instead, I recommend we follow the lead of a wise & well-tempored woman I watched yesterdsy skewer Lannie Davis by simply & repeatedly asking, “who’s paying you?”
Bill Clinton’s singular accomplishment as President was to turn us into a one party system. Do you believe “go-along gofers” would so easily say oops & see the light. Not a chance. Rahm’s playing the only game he knows to the best of his ability, Obama’s (still) trying desperately to gain admitance to the elite insiders club he’s coveted since youth.
The answer is to work as hard as you do, to continue to build credibility & add supporters, and to carefully avoid even minor pratfalls that can be used to marginalize you. You & your team are on the mark with HealthCare Reform; pick your fights & DON’T waste bullets. We’re with you.
Jane “But it’s a huge mistake to overweight that, because you wind up doing what the White House is doing right now: standing with their backs to a tsunami rising over their heads, of which Howard Dean and the blogs are only a small symbol.”
That “tsunami” that supports the public option is made up of 60% of the American public.
Was looking for the Chris Matthews clip where he smacks down someone for calling the 60% of Americans who support the public option “the left”
This one is interesting. Matthews trashes the Republicans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGsFKeiirnw
We saw a bit of that yesterday with Lanny Davis going up against you on Ed Schultz’ show, Jane. Lanny was doing the same rote moves from his tattered copy of Demagoguing Your Foes 101, and was getting incredibly frustrated to find you deflecting his schtick with such ease that you were literally laughing at him as you did so. As the segment wore on, a look of incredulity overspread his face: He could not believe that none of his tried-and-true tricks were working any more. Yet he didn’t have any others in his arsenal.
Why is it that 60% of Americans who support the public option are the “far left” or “progressives”
Or described as commie pinko socialist Jesus hating abortion having terrorist.
Where were the Republicans on health care reform the last eight years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14pvvkPgJjc
Jane,
I agree 100% with every word of this great advice.
Why is there always money for war? “and yet when you want to do health care there is no money?”
Chris Matthews
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj72qv91M9A
I wish it were stupidity because that’s easy to correct. I actually think it’s probably caused more by what you could call Marie Antoinette-ism. Our rulers are just so engorged with money, power, and privilege that they’re blind to public sentiment.
JOE LIEBERMAN’S OFFICE PHONE in CT is 860-549-8463. I just left him a message stating I think he is a total sellout piece of crap for what he did to health care reform. The girl who answered the phone said she’ll give him the message. FEEL FREE TO CALL HIS OFFICE and voice your displeasure. 860-549-8463.
Right to the point!
The sellouts’ media blitz bullshit isn’t working: polls show that the public isn’t buying it.
Let them call us names. Let them denigrate us to their hearts’ content. Let them go on the television day after day to defend their bullshit and attack us again and again and again.
In fact, I say let’s force them to go on the tv day after day to defend their bullshit and attack us again and again and again.
All the American people will see is the truth: there is a serious rift within the Democratic Party and a feud dividing the base.
Meanwhile, we need to start thinking forward to the primaries and midterms.
Jane,
Have you seen Connecticut Dem says time for Dodd to go at the CNN Political Ticker?
Any word from Ned Lamont? If not, are you thinking about getting someone to contact him to see if he’s willing to say he’s not ruling out a 2010 run?
Ned Lamnont on the Ed show the other night. Said he is thinking about a run for the Governor’s seat in Conn.
Great post.
Found that he’s formed an exploratory committee here.
May I suggest thinking about finding another candidate we can support?
The tipping point is going to be if center-left Dems in the House
who are close to Pelosi and/or Stenny Ho’
read the electoral tea leaves and start to peel off.
Dan Maffei, Tom Periello and Donna Edwards come to mind.
Jane,
They are squealing like stuck pigs.
Don’t stop now, Hon; I’m gettin’ to where I like it. :o)
I was kinda shocked when Ed’s producer called me and ask me to go on with Lanny. What planet was he on that he didn’t think I was going to say just that? I figured he’d be prepared with an answer at the very least.
I couldn’t see his face when I was on so I frankly didn’t know how he was responding. You just kind of “go” when they turn the camera on. I kept thinking Ed was going to come back to me, so when he cut the segment I just walked into the hall thinking “oh well, that was that.”
It wasn’t until I got to the elevator and Shuster came into the hall, wincing and shaking his head, saying “brutal” that I had any idea of what had happened.
I see the way Obama operates as his “community organizer” approach to everything. Find some middle ground for everyone with the realization that there are intransigents on both extremes that you can’t move. There are a number of problems trying to run a country that way:
1) Unlike community groups, the sides don’t have to live with the consequences. National politics, while affecting everyone, don’t change things in the neighborhoods that the politicians live in. So there’s no long-term consequences or incentives to negotiate honestly. Obama seems blind to this.
2) It’s very easy to misjudge the size or importance of those who disagree with you, leading to a real possibility of labeling those who are fighting as “extreme” and ignoring them. The recent treatment of Howard Dean, for example. Or dismissing blogs like FDL as being nothing but flies in the ointment.
3) It almost seems like this is being used by corporate interests to fool and manipulate Obama’s decision-making process. Just as Cheney and the warbrains were able to lead the child-like Bush around by his nose to do what they wanted (just give him some new dress-up clothes!), it seems more and more possible that Obama is being manipulated by pro-corporate interests manifesting as Rahm and Summers. All in the name of finding common ground. Sure.
Once more, you’ve nailed it Jane. “What we agree on: both parties are working against the interests of the public, the only difference is in the messaging.” YUP!!
“It’s scary to think that people this obscenely stupid are running the country.”; I don’t know about ’stupid’ but they sure as hell are self centered, egomaniacal, and greedy beyond belief. Their oaths mean nothing to them.
The populists don’t make any difference in elections. They fall in line. The anti abortion people have been falling in line for 35 years and will continue to do so. We here will too. Matt Y is yammering about how this is how the system works and to an extent he is correct. Until it doesn’t.
The thing is and I hate to say it but it should be said that if there was symmetry between left and right populism then lefties would be taking guns to Aetna headquarters like the right does to Democratic events. Extrapolate.
Somewhere today, Ralph Nader is laughing.
The Dean opposition has pulled the curtain off the Obama game (it’s Barack not Rahm) of triangulation. Some saw it before, but now many see it.
They have no idea how alienated the left is now and how alineated regular working folks are. Another Obama speech will not save the day.
This is 2002 again. The Democrats are enbracing their own defeat and we could not stop them even if we wanted.
Keep telling the truth Jane. We will prevail evnetually.
SUPRISE!!!! SUPRISE!!!! SUPRISE!!!
Republicans and DINOs irrelavent..Third Party sweeps nation
coming soon!
Like I said yesterday, all they’ve got is Kool-Aid drinkers. Thinking on the fly doesn’t come easy to them. If the talking points don’t work we get what we witnessed with Unca Lanny. Keep it up, Jane. You’re the bestest representative we have.
sorry, the Democratic party is thoroughly corrupt. Lamont ‘felt’ like a Dem. stooge on ED.
During the New Deal FDR was under constant pressure from the left. They supported them when he did the right thing and opposed him when he did the wrong thing. There were enough of them that he couldn’t ignore them, and in fact he had to rely on them to defeat the conservative Republicans and the conservative Democrats (who weren’t only from the South). FDR was able to do what he did only because he had a serious left opposition. (There’s a book about some of these guys called “Sons of a Wild Jackass”, the title of which might give you an idea of how they were perceived. A fun book, though actually published in 1932, before the action really started).
I have been convinced that all of the mainstream Democrats are absolutely opposed to progressivism both as a matter of principle and because they’ve been bought. Every time an issue comes around they’ll say “We’d like to do better, but it’s not politically possible”, but that’s never true. They don’t want to do better; they are in the pocket of business and in many cases would be hsppier to lose to a Republican than to a progressive. At best they think of progressivism as a fossil of history. (When he was alive people said nice things about Paul Wellstone, but they never supported him).
The reason why we keep having this debate is that progressives / liberals / whatever are about 15-20% of the general population, a bigger proportion of the actual voters, and a bigger still proportion of the Democratic vote. In order to get what they want, centrists can do it by first beating the Republicans and then beating the progressives, and for them cutting a deal with the Republicans is as good an outcome as any.
The only way this can be fought is by going to the people, primarying centrist, and defeating Republicans. Centrists do not go to the people because they don’t want to give them anything. Centrists prefer to work behind the scenes and only like to relte to the people through institutional intermediaries.
The likes of Rahm will never take us seriously until we’ve hurt them, and even then they’ll just hate us until they finds out that they needs us for something. Business is business.
So far he feels nothing but contempt for us. We aren’t really worth hating.
Those of us who voted for BHO were voting against the “obscenely stupid” of the previous eight years and yet somehow it’s continued almost unabated into the next election cycle.
Let’s just say it: Obama is an opportunist who has managed to get himself into a position that required someone with executive level skills and now, for whatever reason… incompetence, hubris, incomplete information or just plain greed has not and will not carry out on any sort of an agenda of “Hope” (whatever than means anymore) and is at best going to be primaried and likely be a one-termer. Unlike Jimmy Carter whose devil was in the details at a time when he needed to see the bigger picture, Obama’s devil is in the big picture which he seems to see but just doesn’t care. If he did, he’d be backing real reform and not kissing HoJo’s ass and whining like a whipped cur when the facts seem to intrude on his reality.
I’ve been getting much grief from FDL locals for pointing out that the metrics have changed while they were gracing their caffe-klatch club.
We have two corrupt parties on the one side and 90% of people on the other.
You can read parts of the book, Sons of the wild jackass
By Ray Thomas Tucker, Frederick Reuben Barkley, on Google Books. Looks interesting.
standing with their backs to a tsunami rising over their heads, of which Howard Dean and the blogs are only a small symbol.
That’s it!!!!! Go ahead and dismiss us as orange handed, PJ wearing inconsequential jerks. But it’s NOT JUST US. we’re just the one’s with the big mouths.
Along those lines, Plouffe’s interview is revealing, IMO. Near the beginning, he shows his contemptuous attitude toward the Rethugs. They are sidelined and powerless, so we have nothing to worry about, is the sentiment. Couple that with some arrogance, especially after having won resoundingly, and you begin to see where Obama’s feelings of (electoral) invincibility are likely coming from.
God help him, and more importantly, us.
Does anyone here think the power structure in the U.S. will ever act except to its own advantage?
Does anyone here think the House or Senate is ever going to act except to the advantage of the majority of its members?
If you do (as to either question), I’d like sincerely to know why.
If you don’t (as to both questions), I’d like to know how, realistically, change is going to be achieved except through revolution.
Y’all correct me if I’m wrong, and I mean that.
I have never seen the progressive wing of the democratic party so outraged, so outspoken, and so PURPOSEFUL, about the “centrists” selling us out. And God knows, we’ve had plenty of chances.
Pray, let us continue. :o)
Jane has found a cinch in the amour. Asking who is paying them is the key. Lanny Davis was logging billable time during his appearance. Who got the bill? Fair question and one everyone should be asking.
Rock, Rock, Rock the boat…
roughly down the stream…
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
life is but an exposure of the congers who are on the take.
I’ve said it before- this whole fiasco is a direct descendant of the Clinton Northwest Forest Plan of 1993.
Pick a subject the liberal base is excised about. Go through a process that creates a lot of heat and FUD. Punch the DFH in the face, make the corporations settle for merely outrageous good fortune. Claim that both sides hate the result, thus proving the virtue of the final outcome.
Rise, lather, repeat. Rahm was there for the whole thing.
The environmental activists were so pissed about how they were treated that in 2000 they signed a petition drive for Environmentalists Against Gore.
Environmentalists Against Al Freaking Gore.
So I say again DLC, how’s that pissing on your base working out?
A must read:
Howard Dean, Movement Leader
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/25596
anyway, I was interrupted. but what i started to say was that to me, the important statement here is how we’re a symbol of larger pissed-offedness. Can they ignore us? Sure. Their problem may be that they’re ignoring all the pissed off people. I’ll listen to them next November after they get their asses kicked.
I read The Daily Howler everyday. I usually agree with him, and with Paul Krugman. Today I had to write him an email of disagreement. He said http://dailyhowler.com/ that there were no progressives working to bring about change, especially not in the MSM. I suggested that he must not be reading FDL because all of the work being done here is exactly what should be done. In addition, Jane is becoming well known as a talking head who is focused, smart, quick witted, and knows her facts.
The Howler, and, apparently, Krugman, want to pass the health bill, whatever comes up. I suggested that we may be better off not passing it because the legislators couldn’t hide behind the “it has been done and really can’t be any better” excuse. Since it doesn’t kick in apparently for some years, many of the people that would be dead without a bill would be just as dead with the bill. If it doesn’t pass, there would be time to do it right.
We’re pissed off and we’re a majority. Jane has that right. Keeping us pissed off is not the same as mobilizing us to win elections though, and I really hope we can make some electoral history.
How we do that eludes me. How do we take this anger and transform it into successful primary challenges (or general election victories for third party candidates)?
I expect that we may have some success at the margin – blue dogs lose progressive support and a DINO gets replaced by a republican. Maybe a few anti corporatist primary winners go on to win general elections.
Do we get to enough progressive Senators that Joe doesn’t matter for cloture? Until we do we’ve still got co president Joe, Ben, Susan, etc to deal with. Which is fine for keeping us angry, but for fixing the problems not so much. How do these powerful creeps in the Senate get neutered?
I hope this post goes to 400 comments – great material in here on a number of subjects . . .
We can piss and moan every day.
Every day.
And nothing will change.
Revolution.
Left Right Wraparound: this is exactly what progressives need to keep an eye out for – kitchen sink, working poor issues that galvanize all Americans. Health care reform is the perfect place to start.
We really need Sanders on our side here; at least that’s my take. We need to get him to adopt Jon Walker’s ‘take the mandate hostage’ strategy, and block cloture until they strip the mandate from the bill. Then we’ll talk. Not until then.
All this nonsense about how we can come back to ‘fix’ this bill later. Riiiiiight. I’m sure the Democratic caucus will get right on that, lickety split, immediately following this message brought to you by Merck.
It appears to me that the health care mandate is a brilliant piece of thinking by the insurance companies to address their problem of a declining customer base, caused by the rapid and un-affordable rise in Health care costs. It’s also coupled with using the IRS as the Health Care Insurance’s collection agency, another brilliant move.
You could believe I’m being sarcastic, and that is one interpretation. A second is that the Health Insurance Companies have used their power to prop-up their business model, and they have very intelligent employees, who have devised this solution.
I write this a little tongue in cheek, because if progressive came out in favor of the mandate, I’d estimate Senator Lieberman would be offering to filibuster it within a week. It’s also not my first choice as all the infrastructure for this effort probably already exists in the Medicare program.
Following is a brief proposal for a private, non-profit, Mutual Insurance Company. We thought we’d name it Mutual health, with a brand name of “The Public Option”, which is a very well publicized well regarded name currently, and enjoys widespread recognition as a “Good Brand.”
This new company would compete with current Health Insurance Companies.
To build this company we’d ask progressives and others to contribute their labor for free, as people who write Linux and other open source software for free, as a huge portion of any insurance company today is its IT systems.
This would require somewhat of a change in progressive thinking to embrace the “mandate” in the Health Care Reform and co-opt it for our common good. The mandate has the power to deliver customers and remove sales and marketing costs from Health Insurance Companies, a significant saving that could be passed on to policy holders.
Is this feasible? Is it worth exploring? Would the progressive caucus embrace it?
Mutual Health Inc, dba The Public Option
Our proposal is to for a health care Mutual Insurance Company. We want to take advantage of the creation of the new brand name, “The Public Option” — particularly since nobody else wants to use it.
A Mutual Insurance Company. A not-for-profit organization, as opposed to the Private Insurance Companies, which is owned by its policy holders. It would insure its members by pooling the risk. Other insurance companies claim to do this, but they appear more interested in risk reduction than patient coverage.
The Mutual Insurance Company is focused on people, so patient coverage is the priority. This is a distinct and defining feature of the Mutual Insurance model.
Premiums
It begins by offering a Basic Coverage Plan, which is age-adjusted for premiums, with a single deductible (for example a yearly $3,000 for a family, $1,000 for an individual).
Premiums will be flat rate, based on age groups. Members of each age group will all pay the same flat rate. Premiums will be adjusted up or down quarterly to cover payments to medical providers, to pool the insured’s risk.
Reimbursements
The insurance company will be completely web-based. Claims will be entered by medical providers, with payments made 30 to 60 days after the claim at Medicare+5% rates. Medical provider who sign up with The Public Option will be committing to be reimbursed at these rates for Public Option policyholders.
Overhead.
The will be no marketing and sales budget. Marketing and sales will be provided through government mandates, and the policies listed on the insurance exchanges.
Maximum compensation for any Officer will be that of the President of the United States. The company’s pay scale will be that of the US Senate and the US House of representatives.
Claims will never be denied.
Claims will be statistically analyzed for Fraud, which will be investigated and prosecuted.
Talk, talk, talk.
Nothing is going happen without citizen action.
And I’m not talking about electing more and better Democrats.
Odd,but I read all 48 comments and a Grand Bargain (or left/right bake sale) was never mentioned. Too proud to beg?
“How do we take this anger and transform it into successful primary challenges (or general election victories for third party candidates)?”
Easy. Find a progressive to run against any conservadem. Then, hold a Free Health Clinic in that states capitol city a few weeks before the election. Register voters at the free health clinic. Put up posters with anti-Health Reform quotes from the conservadem and pro-single payer quotes from the Progressive. Politicize the hell out of it…(but don’t pressure the sick people) Invite the media and give them questions to ask the conservadem.
In short…marry Free Health Clinics and Progressive Campaigns.
I must say your seemed pissed at Lanny, and rightly so. I think the follow-on segment with Laura Flanders nailed it by stating anyone that was selling the Junta in Honduras, as Lanny is, shouldn’t be counted on for integrity and telling of truths.
I believe you and yours have found the next attack point in demonstrating the complete dissatisfaction with our Government and Governance by both side of the political spectrum. FIGHT ON
This. What I’ve tried to explain, repeatedly, to the mandate fans is that money that you force someone to pay for a monthly health insurance premium is money that is no longer going to be circulating in the rest of the economy. This will be especially felt with young, childless adults. A 25 year old waiter or Target cashier making $20k a year will have 56% of his/her premiums subsidized by the government. S/he will be expected to pay $1153 a year for premiums. That’s a LOT of money to that person. Nearly $100 a month that is not going to be spent in an economy where 70% of the GDP is consumer spending.
Am I the only one who would like to see someone try to answer the question:
“Why do we need the health insurance companies?”
Just saw the segment replay on the Ed Show, with Lanny Davis. All I can say is “awesome”. Three little words with so much power, “who’s paying you?”. He never did answer.
To be honest I’m tired of it in North Dakota. My Senator is Byron Dorgan and I have not lost faith in him because he is a liberal, I have lost faith in him because I found out he doesn’t live in this state and his votes are increasingly going away from what our state wants. I’m voting for the Republican, Mr. Paul Sorum. I met him and yes, he lives in North Dakota and two, he talked about the economy. I’m sorry, I don’t want my grandkids paying down this debt. It’s scaring the heck out of me. I’m voting for Mr. Sorum and just ask that he support our wishes.
Yeah, they think they’re pretty brilliant. Some researchers did a study on incompetent people a while back and they found that the most incompetent people simply don’t have the capacity to question their own judgment. In other words, the most incompetent people never doubt their competence. We’re seeing a lot of that in the political world.
Jane, YOU ARE A COMPLETE HYPOCRITE.
One second you’re yelling about how the Republicans have an insane purity test, and now you are instituting one for Democrats!
Jimmy Carter? Howard Dean? Ralph Nader? Do these names sound familiar? These are resounding progressive election losers, whose failure helped usher in years of conservatism in this country.
The healthcare bill is not perfect, but it is a STEP in the right direction to the public option one day. Kill this bill, and you legitimize these crazed right wing fundamentalist teabaggers in the eyes of the American people, give Congress over to the Republicans in 2010 and send Sarah Palin to the White House in 2012.
Folks, guess what? AMERICA IS NOT A PROGRESSIVE COUTNRY . . . at least not yet. But historically, progressive changes in this country have came incrementally, never all at once.
President Obama has signed SCHIP, the Matthew Shepard Act. He has bought up the property to transfer the Guantanamo Bay prisoners. He has banned torture. He is withdrawing the troops from Iraq, and has a deadline for Afghanistan troops. He signed the stimulus for which the economy would be MUCH worse. He has accomplished a lot yet he doesn’t have your support. This is insane, he isn’t Jesus! He can’t’ do everything!
You Jane, along with your deluded progressive supporters are all barking mad, and when we become perennial election losers for the next several years, I am not gonna blame the Republicans or the teabaggers, I’m blaming YOU!
Jane -
While others have chosen their favorite quotes from your post, this one pleases me the most:
PS – and tomorrow, I’ve got to find a computer with high speed access and watch that vid with you and davis. Sounds like I’m missing a lot of fun.
The trick? The perferct word, actually.
The trick in fac is to trick as many people as you possibly can into thinking that what is in the health care bill is what should be in the health care bill—once those inside the beltway have narrowed this down to what aids and abets the interests of those inside the beltway.
And those who pay the bills come election time.
This triangulated “shell game” was invented [or, perhaps, perfected] by Bill Clinton when he triangulated the interests of top ranking Democrats, Republicans and Wall Street in the 1990s. The Bilderberg agenda.
As much as Jane adroitly connects the dots above, my own cynicism will always revolve around the dots that are always missed by progressives: the deeply rooted systemic nature of crony capitalism. That is still always on the periphery by and large.
Too much emphasis is always placed on the inside the beltway “politics”. A bevy of “personalities”, a cliquish and claquish media hellbent always on reducing stuff like this down to a horse race—and never on those in New York who buy and sell both the horses and the jockies.
Vaguely there is a sense that the race is “fixed”. But how exactly? How is something like the charade in Congress actually choreograped from without?
I agree. How stupid can something be said to be if it gets you exactly what you wanted in the first place.
The whole “debate” so far unfolded based not on the stupidity, but on the ignorance of those who actually failed to grasp that Obama’s part in it all commense on Februrary 10th 2007.
Revolutions can be such as led by Marianne or Lech Walensa. While I share your belief that meaningful and lasting change will require a popular uprising, I sure do want to work for it to go the second route.
Bless you Jane,
What say you about David Brooks column today:
If he were a Senator and had to vote today, he’d have to vote no…..
Because too much has been lost…..
Vs. Krugman who essentially says, I think, hold your nose and vote yes.
Thank God for the work of FDL writers and responders.
Have a blessed Christmastide,
Mr. Sorum serves the interests who ran up the deficits by enriching themselves, and insist on reducing it on the backs of people like you.
Get better informed, before you make that jump.
Yup Ralphie boy was right. Too bad the bastard couldn’t have withdrawn just long enough to get out of Gores way.
Electing your own executioner is a concept of privilege that totally escapes my minds ability to even imagine what would be the motivation other than the precision or swiftness of the executioners blade. If that is the case than actually voting for the Repubs. will deliver you out from under your misery more quickly. Either way, though, – you;re in luck since both see you in much the same way as a useless idiot.
Rick Perry used to work for Gore and Liegershit was his runing mate, – for dog’s sake! Gore was and is an insider just like the rest of them.Wake up, already.
Then the follow up he needed to hear:
“Aren’t you a part of the health care lobbying complex that has forked over hundreds of millions of dollars”to the very same people in Congress who are tasked with writing the legislation that will make or break their bottom line? Isn’t that an enormous conflict of interest? Isn’t this assembly line of cash between New York and Washington the very essense of democracy in America when something like health care reform is being considered?”
“the girl who answered the phone”
I think if a male had answered the phone you would not have referred to him as a boy.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jane.
We’ve needed to talk more about what we have in common with those folks at teabagger rallies. We may laugh at some of their conspiracy theories, but the anger is *real*. The populist outrage at how our government has been sold out is *real*.
Letting the real power (the money party) fracture us into “left” vs. “right” only means we’re impotent. Understanding the grievances of our opponents and working with them on the things we agree on is politically wise.
Cool. I was thinking of something similar the other day. One problem: McCarren-Ferguson. The anti-trust exemption that the health insurance cartel enjoys. Still, I think it’s a very interesting idea.
Instead of whining on the Internet, you elitist liberals, you should be out there protesting, taking away face time from these teabaggers! You all are ridiculously naive if you think that anybody, let alone politicians, can deliver on all their promises. No wonder Democrats seem to be perennail election losers and only win when the Republicans screw up. Your anger at our President is immature and you completely dismiss the things he has accomplished:
SCHIP, Matthew Shepard Act, stimulus bill, banning torture, buying up new prison for Guantanamo, setting up deadlines for bringing troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. Promoting peace, and practicing diplomacy.
What I see from progressives instead is childish whining, and stupidity. In a few years, we are going to have a homophobic, anti-immigrant, pro-gun, anti-science, pro-theocracy Congress (teabaggers) and President (Sarah Palin). And it will be because you idiots are acting like petulant children who think you can get EVERYTHING you want all at once.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/18/poll-health-care-reform-w_n_396990.html
This link is to evidence that the American public currently agrees with Jane. The poll results speak loudly. The Senate healthcare bill spells political suicide. Political and media spin won’t turn a duck into a swan. It still is what it is.
And I agree that if Obama’s team is thinking “right/left” & how to maneuver that dichotomy, they are misguided. Times have obviously changed drastically since the 90’s. Especially since September 2008, bailouts, layoffs, deficits, corporate giveaways (e.g., to pharma, insurance, automobile, and banking companies) have totally altered the dynamics. It’s very clear to Americans on the right & left that the politicians’ most prized constituents are the lobbyists, the corporations, not the voters.
We don’t! Except perhaps as supplemental insurance outside of a single-payer system that people with unusual health needs or wealthy folk who want extra special care might utilize. Other than that, it’s just raw political power.
I’m trying to recall the trajectory of Carter’s presidency.
I know that he took all kinds of heat for telling the truth about energy “policy” and also for identifying the “malaise” that gripped the country. And of course he was hurt by the oil embargo and the dicking around with the hostages.
But when did the public start to lose confidence, and then turn on him? I was a young adult at that time, but I just can’t recall.
Obama ought to be reading up on that presidency a bit.
habmed @ 73:
“SCHIP, Matthew Shepard Act, stimulus bill, banning torture, buying up new prison for Guantanamo, setting up deadlines for bringing troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. Promoting peace, and practicing diplomacy.”
Is there something that ties the above together? I tried to imagine that this represented a list of Obama accomplishments, but clearly that is not it. – so wuzzup with that?
Do you want to spell out how that “revolution” is going to happen, Sherlock?
Or do you just want to come in here & piss on people?
Are Mr. Sorum and the other members of the Republican party going to be reducing your grandkids’ burden by voting against pouring money down the Iraq and Afghanistan ratholes [and thereby increasing the debt even more than health care would]?
Oh, that’s cute. We’re with the teabaggers now? So we hate gays, immigrants, want to institute theocracy, declare war on science, and have war a first resort and undermine human rights. Not to mention roll back social programs, like Medicare, Social Security and doom any chance at health-care reform? Do you also believe our President is a Muslim Socialist Fascist terrorist who was born in Kenyan village? Because the majority of them believe that.
Go the Tea Party website. They’re laughing at us right now. No wonder.
*putting on moderator hat*
no flaming. disagree with the message but Do Not go after the messenger
Probably best to just Wiki Carter, but here are some things I remember: Carter started out on the wrong foot with Dem congressman by apruptly cancelling a slew of Western water projects that had already been approved. It may have made sense budget-wise and environmentally but it was a MAJOR faux pas politically especially if you know anything about western water politics. Carter was regarded as a naive hick by Washington after that.
At the start of Carter’s term inflation was high and unemployment was also. Reagan later referred to this as the “misery index” and it did lead to a general feeling of impotence and desperation among the people. Carter himself famously said the American people were mired in “malaise.”
The nation was reeling from the 1st of the “energy shocks,” and contributed to the feeling of losing control of the country. Carter referred to the energy struggle as the “moral equivalent of war.” The press derisively called it “MEOW.”
Fed Chief Paul Volcker, in an ultimately successful bid to wring inflation out of the economy, reduces the money supply and jacks up interest rates to double digits. This slowed the economy down to a crawl and unemployment shot up.
In an act of towering stupidity,IMO, Carter brings the Shah of Iran into the US for medical treatment (he had been living in exile in Uruguay I think.) Revolutionaries in Iran go ballistic and storm the Americn embassy and take hostages in a standoff that would last for, what was it? 2 years?
A hostage rescue attempt that crashed and burned in the Iranian desert put the cherry on top of the cake of America’s feeling of incompetence and helplessness.
Optics-wise, Carter just never really seemed “Presidential.” Short, blond, fair skinned with a soft Southern accent, Carter always seemedd like one of the guys you knew on your neighborhood street. Very smart, in a bookish sort of way, but never the lead guy.
Dear Jane,
Black Agenda Report opposes this “healthcare bill” and slams Paul Krugman for being a phony “liberal.” There are many who oppose this bill and people who can be fine allies in this fight.
This is Hell Radio which is online says that Glen Ford of Black Agenda Report is their all-time favorite guest. Ford’s commentary on Paul Krugman is worth listening to. BAR is not crazy about “liberals” as they come from a radical perspective/view. I also come from a very radical view as well.
So, let’s not just rely on the so-called “conventional wisdom.” The writers at BAR are not only intellectuals but committed activists as well. And they also know what they are talking about.
Glen Ford, Bruce A. Dixon and Margaret Kimberley know their stuff and have been onto Obama since he started running for president.
How about just Radicals against this conventional Inside the Beltway mentality? Why not put it in their face and say, yes, this is who we are and ya know what, we don’t like it and we don’t like you and your views which are NOT HELPING ANYONE BUT THE FAT CATS?
It’s time not to play so nice and be so polite, ya know. As the saying goes, polite women seldom made history! Why be so nice and polite to these vicious characters in Washington who try to act so nice on the air when in fact they are nothing but snakes holding all the weapons? No, one does not have to play nice with these jerks in Washington whom are making life and death decisions and literally so! I am sorry but these jerks in Washington put on their pants the same way we all do. That’s that and that’s it. These Washington people DESERVE NO RESPECT at all!!! I am sorry but they are jerks and ignorant and deaf. They deserve these ad hominem attacks as well here. Sorry but they earned these attacks.
I hope you all go over and read the writings at http://www.blackagendareport.com/
All The Best,
KRC
Please provide the link to me talking about “purity tests” for Republicans. I’ve heard others make that observation but I certainly haven’t. I totally approve of what they’re trying to do, even if the execution isn’t always perfect.
That IS progress.
If we can start to get what 60 or 70% of the people want, for a change, that would be very progressive.
What we have now is a system that isn’t working for the people at all, fixing it so it works is what being ‘progressive’ is all about. If you think there is anything bad about progressive politics, you better ask yourself why on earth you would think that or feel that way.
I bet the answer will be because you heard some dirty lie.
The ‘progressive’ movement was my idea. It is my Native American religious freedom political action girl scout project to end war. The TEA Party was my idea too.
I am just full of ideas. Do you have a problem with it?
There is a lot of good writing in this thread and I am learning a lot from.it.
But I have to say I personally do think they have managed to split our liberal base and rather than be defensive we better acknowledge it and get moving to get back together.
Even if I had the power I certainly don’t have the know how but there is a lot of that here.
I wonder if pursuing what Dean and some others are now saying which is to not give in to this is the best it can be and escalate efforts, as many of you all are doing now, to discourage the Democratic senators from giving in. And cool the expressions of anger and avoid threats. Just some thoughts.
We’re in agreement with the tea party people in identifying that the federal government is not responding to the public, rather it is captured by corporate interests. Tea partiers may say out of touch elites rather than corporate interest, but they’re the same thing and we need to point out to them that the convergence of corporate interest and big government is the problem.
A lot of tea party people are now opposed to war. Kind of funny how having you children or neighbor’s children come home broken can change views, and that’s been happening more and more. It’s also true that the tea party crowd is worried about government debt and they can see that a military budget ($636B) that is larger than the entire GDP of all but 17 countries might be a tad more than we can afford.
You’ve got a point on the nativist (know nothing) strain of tea party people. Populism and nativism can go together, and unfortunately lead to solutions that would invoke Godwin’s Law if I were to suggest them. Foreclosing those (bad) solutions is one reason why we need to engage with the tea party people – to take the populist anger and channel it into constructive solutions that don’t prey on scapegoat classes of our polity.
By the way here is a great column in one our small town newspapers. Every now and then a liberal gets in..
I think you all might enjoy it and maybe even get some talking points.
http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/article/27291/
when you lack a conscience of how many people are suffering from lack of health care, as well as even the unemployment rate (35%) amongst black male youth (18-34yo), you cannot be labeled anything but a psychopath.
Yes, Obama has shown such a lack of empathy that I am willing to make the leap into “Anti-Personality Disorder”, aka, “psychopath.” Just. Like. Bush.
Because the progressive movement was my idea and I am on the ‘far left’, so the more people adopt my good ideas, the more everyone moves to the left.
You say it like it is a bad thing, it is not. Think of left and right as an intelligence scale, right is lower IQ, left is higher. Naturally as people become smarter and more educated, they will move to the left on that axis. That is what is happening.
I thought these comments looked familiar. You seem to be busying yourself spamming them on various blogs today:
I guess we’re “happy to be nominated.”
Dear Jane Hamsher,
On the subject of GOP Purity Tests:
Some Conservatives Push a ‘Purity Test’ for GOP Candidates
November 24, 2009, 8:00 AM ET
By Peter Wallsten
The Wall Street Journal
“Conservative Republican Party activists want to withhold money from GOP candidates who stray too far from party orthodoxy…Ten Republican National Committee members are distributing a plan to impose a purity test – calling for money to be withheld from anyone who disagrees with conservative principles on more than two of 10 core issues…Among the required stances: oppose President Barack Obama’s health care and cap-and-trade proposals as well as his stimulus plan; reject government funding for abortion; vote “no” on legislation to help unions organize; and support keeping the Defense of Marriage Act.”
Read entire article @:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/11/24/some-conservatives-push-a-purity-test-for-gop-candidates/
GOP purity test would have banished Bush, Reagan
By David Edwards and John Byrne
The Raw Story
Tuesday, November 24th, 2009 — 10:58 am
“…The latest trend in the Republican Party is an effort to weed out moderates — witness New York Republicans’ successful effort to oust their own candidate in an upstate House race, in preference for an independent conservative….But a new GOP “purity test” named for Ronald Reagan moves the line even farther to the right, and a liberal website has found that the test — if used in the past — would have screened out President Ronald Reagan and President George W. Bush as viable conservatives….The test was conceived by conservative attorney Jim Bopp, Jr., who recently pushed a resolution to the Republican National Committee which proposed referring to the Democratic Party as the “Democrat Socialist Party.” (The proposal was rejected.)Bopp’s litmus test, titled the “Resolution on Reagan’s Unity Principle for Support of Candidates,” includes the following guidelines:”"
Read the entire article @:
http://rawstory.com/2009/11/reagan-wouldnt-pass-purity-test/
I have been a democrat all my life. I am finding that I have more in common with Ron Paul than people like Ben Nelson and Joe Lieberman.
If we can vote in democrats who don’t want women to be covered by insurance for abortions.. why vote dem.? How could rahm and bill clinton have taken our party so far to the right? A politician running on Nixon’s domestic policy would be called leftist today. Not electable.
If the Ron Paulers’ and the left could unite…we could have some change. The dem party at present is co opted.There is another repub I like . Jeff Flake from Arizona in the House. Believes in fiscal responsibility like Howard Dean. Howard Dean for 2012!
Paul Krugman’s Blind Spot for Corporations and Obama
Posted Tue, 12/15/2009 – 17:50
A Black Agenda Radio commentary by Glen Ford
“Krugman was the featured speaker at a lecture held each year at New York City’s Baruch College in honor of Dr. Donald H. Smith, an esteemed Black educator and political activist who is also a great friend of mine, and of Black Agenda Report. The house was packed with Dr. Smith’s many admirers plus lots of folks eager to hear Krugman’s analysis of current affairs. In his area of expertise, Krugman whitewashes President Obama’s economics team, led by the same Clinton bankster operatives that the laid groundwork for the 2008 crash. Former Treasury Secretaries Larry Summers and Robert Rubin and current Treasury chief Timothy Geithner are ”not stupid or corrupt” men, said Krugman, they’re just “too close to Wall Street” and “not in touch with the public.” Krugman appeared sincerely startled that the Administration shows “an almost total unwillingness to appeal to the popular backlash” against the banks. He wishes Obama would push for another big economic stimulus to create jobs, but despairs of that happening. “The financial system,” in Krugman’s expert opinion, “has become a ward of the state.”
Listen or Read Mr. Ford’s Entire Commentary on Mr. Paul Krugman @:
http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=content/paul-krugmans-blind-spot-corporations-and-obama
We are going to have to take the long view.
Actually, I’ve been working on the concept for a while now. Medical marijuana was where I started.
To money launder the drugs.
I want to share this wonderful speech with all of you here tonight as it’s so applicable to the present crisis of the American political/economic system. This is Ingrid Betancourt’s fabulous Speech at the Liberal Party Convention in Colombia, from 1998. Notice how she talks about the corrupt political system in Colombia and of course the U.S. number one ally in Latin America right now. Here it is folks:
“I’m here as a member of the Liberal Party. I’m here to represent many Colombians. There two major parties in Colombia — the liberal and conservative. And I discovered that they are the same. I don’t believe in the major parties. I was part of the liberal party when I began doing politics. This is a rigged convention. The convention of the corrupt Liberal machinery. There is an alliance, a secret alliance between politicians and drug traffickers. The first step is to combat this alliance. Oxygen is a party that I created. Oxygen is something that you need to live. And for living, you need democracy; you need fair and honest elections. They are things you cannot bargain with. I was elected senator with the highest score in the country, beating the corrupted system with their own rules in their own game. That means that there is another country, that is awakening, that is waiting for somebody to tell them, “Look, let’s react. Let’s do it in another way.” You see, my father brought us up with the idea that we have had so many opportunities in life. He used to say Colombian children cannot live as he lives, cannot have the education you have. So, because you are having these opportunities, you have to give back to your country. You have to really make yourself available to serve your country. This is something that marred (ph) me deeply in my heart. My mother, she came into politics. She was a beauty queen at the start. Because she was very beautiful, the doors opened for her. She created a foundation where she would give shelter to abandoned children. She devoted her life to this cause. I could have lived another life. Actually, I married a French diplomat. I left my country for many years. I lived a very comfortable life, but there was this bell ringing in my heart, and every time something was happening in Colombia, I was feeling guilty not to be there trying to help.
When I came back to Colombia after many years, I went into politics in a very different way as normally it is done in Colombia. And everybody said to me that it was not possible to get into politics, that I was not going to be elected, that I had to go into the machinery and get into the system. Getting into the system means being corrupted as they are, which, of course, that’s what I did not want to do. The result was that I was elected to the House of Representatives with a very high score.
If I were president, I would not be afraid to remove the corrupt people.”
What makes it doubly bad is that health insurance costs are gobbling up disposable income as it is…that’s a sizable part of the problem. So, the solution from the Senate is to require people to pay the cost…which will further reduce that disposable income.
Not only that, in the last 20-30 years as manufacturing has declined, fewer dollars end up staying in the country and recirculating through the economy. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/MULT
People don’t understand that when they shop at the big box stores and buy lots of cheap Chinese goods that they’re hurting the domestic economy. There’s no awareness that they’re making the decisions to cut American jobs. Eventually, it was going to contribute to the kind of situation we have here…especially in a consumer driven economy as you mentioned, donnadiva.
By no means is it the only stress point. Casinos are a black hole for disposable income and the multiplier and they’re almost everywhere. There’s the mortgage market and the housing bubble….health insurance costs, medical bankruptcies, off-shoring of jobs, union busting/empowerment of corporations, domestic tax inequities, debt load…I could sadly go on.
I can say one thing for sure. As long as the health insurance companies are allowed to raise rates and generate more and more income, the decline of American business will continue. Health care costs are an enormous issue preventing companies from doing business here.
We’ve come a long way in a couple weeks. Remember when you were faintly insulting me for making exactly this insinuation about where our uncomfortable, but apt, allies appear to lie, and about how it’s really a problem that we’ve allowed that anger to be co-opted by right-wing demagogues?
Good times. Good times. :-)
Well, if we need to extend an olive branch to some misallocated teabaggers, I can make small talk about firearms.
Amen.
Like I said in this diary posted last month over at DailyKos.com, politics is not about Obama. Politics is not about whether Obama is a good President or a bad President. No, politics is about us, and, specifically, it’s about what we should do. Right now, politics is about what we should do about this Senate bill that threatens to permanently enshrine insurance corporations on the Federal dole with our money.
Uh, no.
Watch out for the BOOGEYMAN — he’s gonna GITCHA!
Uh-huh.
The only way out of this is to reform the whole system…. get rid of the lobbyists and make real changes to campaign finance rules… both will make it easier for the people to be heard
Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside
And it is ragin’.
It’ll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’
Bob Dylan
What’s the solution? I believe in trying to get more progressive Democratic candidates. The left should be all over the primaries in 2010, starting now.. To me that seems more productive. The Republicans might string along the tea party, but they are never to deliver for them like they will for the Iowa farmers. We may not be the majority but we can have much more influence if we suit up and show up where it will make the most difference. If we want to prove Rahm wrong and show that we are not irrelevant we could stay home, as if that would show him. If Liberals do stay home, how does the left take credit for that even if we wanted too. I say if we really want to show Rahm, would it not be more effective show up in 2010 and beat his his mini me clones in the Democratic primaries with real progressives.
Wake up everybody! Don’t lose sight of the forest for the trees! Why are we not ALL responding positively to this proposal? It’s an END RUN of simple but magnificent proportions. C-r-e-a-t-e our own system! How utterly simple! But be prepared for a horrendous attack from the insurance industry.
Also, this approach must include a nationwide plan to put all the displaced health care paper pushers to work, retraining them as necessary.
A LOT of people would get behind this: Howard Dean, Dennis Kucinich, Alan Grayson (great except for his AIPAC connections), John Conyers, Robert Wexler, Henry Waxman, Anthony Weiner, Peter deFazio, Bernie Sanders, Al Franken, Donna Edwards (if that breakfast Steny Hoyer threew for her last week didn’t have the desired effect)….and think of the appeal to young folks who will be otherwise screwed by all the other proposals……..everybody wins with this! Come on…….TALK THIS UP!
That’s one reason I keep bringing up state legislatures – decennial census means redistricting. Many states have this process controlled by the state legislature. Working with county committees, meeting candidates is something we constructive we can be doing now.
Biggest laugh of yesterday:
Lanny Davis calling himself a Liberal! Mwahahahahahah…
That pig makes his living at the same trough as the hedge fund managers, the no-talent CEO’s, and the Consultants who have never really produced anything in their lives. He’s got a big mouth, and no brain. He is as far from Liberal as Mussolini, but richer. But Ed didn’t call him on it, which was disappointing… and never made him answer Jane’s question about who was paying him to be there, which was infuriating! Is Ed Schultz an independent voice, or has he been bought out, too?
Keep giving them hell Jane. I agree with you on this post 99%–the exception is that I don’t attribute the administration’s behaviors to stupidity as you suggest out of frustration in your last sentence. I’m guessing you don’t either; there’s a fair degree of hubris assisting the shortage of intelligence.
Brilliant, Jane. Especially:
Under ’stupid,’ might I note that telling the American public that we have a ‘democracy’, which presumes ‘majority rule’ — and then mixing up the message by saying that we have a ‘60 vote’ rule means that the majority gets f*cked over, and over, and over, and over…
Partly because it hit people’s pocketbooks, but also because the explanations for wars, hurricanes, ‘outed’ CIA agents, and a tanked economy did not make sense, beginning in 2008 more people started to pay attention.
The DC insiders seem to think that we’re all going to sit back and suck our thumbs while they tell us that some Senator from a state with a dinky population, a 7th-world economy, and a crap educational system can hold up major legislation because the Senate has a 60 vote rule.
A ‘majority’ would be 51 votes.
That’s not what we have; we are repeatedly told that we ‘need’ 60 votes.
How is that ‘majority rule’?
Do these clowns honestly believe that we can’t distinguish between a majority and super-majority?!
Kinda like telling us that a baseball team can only win a game if they score a minimum of 10 points more than the opposing team.
Yeah, that’s really believable… uh, huh.
It’s really become quite insulting to see how stupid they think we are.
Yet, having read about Randy Scheunemann, and knowing that Dan Quayle is a principle at Cerberus (along with John Snow), I can only conclude that these people are so f*cking stupid they have no business running a donut shop, let alone a nation.
Thank you for what you do.
“devide and conquer”has been the strategy of our politicians since,well,you know.
Amen bailey2739.
Jane is THE BOMB !!
I wish Howard Dean would move to Nevada & challenge Harry Reid in the Dem Primary.
Look at this way, if we could have another 8, 16, 32 years of Republicans without the Dems always repairing the Repub damage, then we would be in such a mess that the majority of Americans would become solid Progressives. Things will have to get worse before they get better.
People of the US unite, rise up and throw off the shackles of the 2-Party Dictatorship (before its too late).
But in the mean time, as LBJ would say, Its PayBack Time —
Kill the Bill
Just Say NO to Corporate Welfare
Medicare for ALL
People Before Profits
Main Street NOT Wall Street
Health Care NOT Warfare
War Is Not the Answer
Support Our Troops — Bring Them Home
Too Big to Fail is TOO BIG
Break the Banksters
How Will Our Grandchildren Pay for Our Mess ??
Thank you, once more, Jane.
I hope you have some time off. Happy Holidays!
I’ll be in Berlin for New Year’s Eve. should be a crazy time.
fahrender
yep. and here’s a big clue. every economic policy i’ve seen coming out of dem associated think tanks / organizations is either frankly neoliberal or based on neoliberal assumptions about corp power (it must be accommodated) and about economics (see deficit doves for an example).
i strongly recommend, even if just as an experiment, going to a rally and listening to what ordinary people are saying (not people like glenn beck and not any neo nazis who might show up). just the ordinary people. treat them with respect, ask questions about their lives and what motivated them turn out for the rally. and then just listen.
in my dreams, a bunch of us might be willing to do this and then compare experiences and stories from across the country in a thread.
Good job on ethically-challenged Lanny Davis. He never could bring himself to answer the question and when he did his response “I don’t have clients etc.” is a falsehood. Firm clients are his clients. Lanny Davis defender of coups and pharma. A perfect match for Lieberman. Even sounds like him.
ps. O = J minus butter. Obama told us a lot about himself when he seriously considered Evan Bayh as a running mate. O will continue to disappoint. He’s a right center except for defending the torturers then he’s no different from Bush Cheney. Quit listening to the speeches and read them instead. There isn’t much “there” there in print form.
i don’t think it can be “us.” by that i mean as firedoglake — there’ve been too many posts mocking them with sexual slurs, etc and i don’t think that the hollywood connection is going to help. i doubt we have any credibility whatsoever (the label of liberal elitism is hard to change once earned). maybe there are things we could do to build some, but i kinda doubt it at this point. but we can do it as individuals as part of our local organizing (and imo we should).
With you on that
Not sure what your point is here. I am not known for my editorial skills. That was quoted something “Megan McCradle” stated. Forgot to put quotation marks in.
My point is that the media keeps referencing “progressives” who are not happy with the present insurance give away legislation. That it is not just progressives who support a “public option” it is 60% of Americans
Jane, Dean, Wendell Potter, Katrina from the Nation, Laura Flanders, labor leaders are not concerned about the present form of health care legislation for fun. There are serious reasons for this concern.
Instead of attacking Jane or anyone else because they read the legislation, consult with others even more highly qualified who understand even more of the details, the loopholes (Wendell Potter) in this legislation. You might want to try to understand these concerns.
John Kerry and others who are attacking Dr. Dean and others might just want to point out that there are clear reasons to be concerned. How can those concerns be addressed? Instead of the attacks.
You are right. The Senate race in North Carolina is a perfect example. The DSCC is thinking about spending millions in the primary. Campaign Diaries has some great coverage.
We DON’T need the insurance industry-they need us. That is why they are trying to make it compulsive.
Non-profit health care for all that want it. Making a business out of the God-given health of a person is pretty corrupt. Profit-taking from the soul and need of a child or adult is immoral. That is something that the Catholics should be pressing, I say that as a former Catholic. But the bishops are worried about female power.
Got that Bart Stupak of Michigan? Sell-out!
catastrophizing?
And I will blame you.
1. She sounded like a girl.
2. You missed the point.
3. If a boy-sounding man answered I would have referred to him as a boy.
“You Jane, along with your deluded progressive supporters are all barking mad, and when we become perennial election losers for the next several years, I am not gonna blame the Republicans or the teabaggers, I’m blaming YOU!”
After having the Bots cave to Bam, I’d love me some Palin.
:)
“What I see from progressives instead is childish whining, and stupidity. In a few years, we are going to have a homophobic, anti-immigrant, pro-gun, anti-science, pro-theocracy Congress (teabaggers) and President (Sarah Palin). And it will be because you idiots are acting like petulant children who think you can get EVERYTHING you want all at once.”
Awesome!
If I don’t get it from Bam NOW, I’ll get to watch you kick and scream demanding it under THEM for 8 years–instead of the mealy mouthed crap I’m hearing these days.
I’ll take whatever I can get. And I bet I can get that.
:)
“But I have to say I personally do think they have managed to split our liberal base and rather than be defensive we better acknowledge it and get moving to get back together.”
Eh. I could leave them.
National Organization for Women opposes Senate health bill
By Michael O’Brien - 12/19/09 01:55 PM ET
The Hill
“…A leading women’s group called on senators on Saturday to defeat its healthcare reform bill….The leader of the National Organization for Women (NOW) excoriated the language in the health bill curtailing federal support for insurance plan covering abortions, which was inserted to win the 60th vote of Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.)….”The so-called health care reform bill now before the Senate, with the addition of Majority Leader Harry Reid’s Manager’s Amendment, amounts to a health insurance bill for half the population and a sweeping anti-abortion law for the rest of us,” NOW President Terry O’Neill said in a statement….”
Read article/blog @:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/73083-national-organization-for-women-opposes-senate-health-bill
Rahm,
Is that you?
I converted about a dozen burgeoning Tea Party members into staunch single-payer advocates after I dislodged their previously emotionally satisfying narrative with another. Changed them from “No Government!” to “Good Government!”
The problem is always the wedge issues. Which are really easy to dislodge by denying the dichotomies typically presented in them. Give me any liberal and any conservative, arguing in good faith, and a pot of coffee, and if I can’t move the conservative to become a drug de-criminalization advocate, and turn the liberal into a 2nd-Amendment civil-liberties advocate; I’ll sign over my 401k. :-)
Jane, I enjoyed this post. I know it’s been a couple of days now, but I posted a related diary over at the Seminal.