OK Jane, MAYBE I was wrong! Maybe I shouldn’t vote against EVERY Democrat in ’10 for the Party’s blowing this very special HealthCare reform opportunity. Regardless, you were definitely right & great on the Ed Show yesterday. You are one neat woman, thx & keep on ‘em!

yeah, i’ll believe it when i see some consequences. or even the threat of consequences.

Watch the score next time Obama thinks about running and the do some polls and he sees who supports his performance and agenda.

At this rate he will be a one term president for sure and be blamed for all the crap of the last 30 yrs. His team of rivals approach was as wrong headed and phoney as 3 dollar bill.

Obi you have been and enormous disappointment except as a puppet for the special interests/private sector/corporatocry. That you are good at.

C’mon, Jane; he’s just showing his courage and character by not caving to the “extremists on the left” who had absolutely
nothing to do with electing him.

When do we get Faux’s first op-ed praising Obama for standing up to the socialists?

Jane — I’ve been calling Senators this morning asking them what they are doing to get the individual mandate out of the Senate health care bill. So far I have called Kirk, Sanders, Feingold, and Brown (no one is answering in Kerry’s office) and not one of them has a statement on what the Senator thinks about this or is actively doing about it. This is stunning to me. I’m continuing to make calls, but I think we need to follow through on Jon’s recommendation yesterday to get this out of the bill. So far, it doesn’t even appear to be on the radar. What’s up with that?

I thought Obama wanted to hear all the views in the room, I guess that only applies if those views are of corporate interests or moderate dems that are looking ahead to that golden parachute of a lobbyist job.

Prediction, a month or two after this healthcare hosing we will see a string of superficial trinkets from Obama much like an abuse victim, and we will see people thinking that he’s changed or he got the message, until the next major piece of legislation and then it will be a new sellout all over again. My guess is that DADT will be reversed, not that isn’t major for some, its just that it is utterly meaningless to corporate interests, but at the same time the White House will do nothing with regards to DOMA, just to keep gay interests groups in line(also because its major substantive change).

And, Bailey’s right: I was glad you got pissed and blew it all over Lanny. It’s about time someone did. :o)

Healthcare industry hookers-r-us: a growth industry…

Here’s a map of DeFazio’s district.

I suspect running away from Democrats toward a populist left is the only hope of winning many Democrats will have in 2010. Lord knows they’ve destroyed the brand.

Oh, Goody! A Democrat keeping an enemies list! We should all be so proud!s

Where are the rivals? I mean you have Geithner, Summers and Bernikie who I guess are in a mud wrestle to see who can out lassiez faire the other two. Joe Biden, the only dude that made sense re: Afghanistan, was ignored (and you can tell that he wasnt happy in subsequent interviews when he has to promote the White House line). All I see are a bunch of like minded folks with different temperaments.

tzimisce@5, it’s going to take more than superficial trinkets to cover his ass for the escalation in Afghanistan.

He COULD have won big on healthcare reform. That aint possible in bush’s clusterfuck(s). No happy ending there, and if O. tries to spin one, he’ll look just bush’s coterie of liars.

Wait…he already does.

Well, we don’t have to worry about Jane getting an invite to the WH. Even if Obama wanted to chew her out, doubt he has the guts to even consider getting within 1,000 feet of her.

Oh yeah? Well tell Barry we’re takin’ names and KICKIN’ ASS!

DEAN/KUCINICH 2012,WHAT DO YA,ALL THINK ABOUT THAT?

Go phred!

Yes all of the “conviction” seems to be on the side of the LieberDems, and none on the side of the “progressives.” Funny that.

If the unions really get behind stopping this, that could change. Politicians understand they have the money/power on the left. But so far, the successful veal penning of the DC based unions has kept that from happening.

The non-DC centric unions & locals are a lot less sanguine, and we may be seeing that have an impact.

Kicking progressives and kissing up to conservadems. Change you cannot believe in.

Ooohhhh, scary, Obama is keeping score. He has proved himself to be a spinelss fuck, so who should really care except another crooked politician?

DeFazio won last time with about 80% of the vote. If the pitch now is to dump on Obama, it never ceases to amaze. Here we are 20 years after 20 years of Bushes and Clintons, and Obama is supposed to bend the arms, even reform the DLC Senators; at least that seems what some critics suggest. It is a damn miracle we do not have the Clintons again. Nelson, Lieberman, Landrieu and Lincoln never had anything to do with the “Democratic” party except their association with Gore and Clinton. Lieberman, the choice of Gore, what a mess. WE still are paying the price.

Mr. President–we keep the ultimate score.

I think what is MOST telling is that the Republicans are not yammering about the individual mandate, pressing for it to be taken out of the bill.

That means it’s the one thing they all agree on; shoveling cash at the industry.

dham straight

This bill isn’t perfect but giving 30 million low/middle income people health insurance is an important first step.

Let’s not forget that FDR made tremendous compromises to pass social security – women and minorities were excluded from participating in many parts of FDR’s new deal in order to appease segregationist legislators. Social security and various other forms of social insurance were subsequently amended to provide benefits to all Americans.

The lesson is to get an imperfect bill passed and then work to amend it over time.

The non-DC centric unions & locals are a lot less sanguine, and we may be seeing that have an impact.

There seems to always be a disconnect here. I think Trumka is really trying to change things, but he needs to throw a hard elbow right now. Do they really think EFCA will pass now anyway? Does any interest group really think that this White House will give them their wishlist? It’s time liberal groups stood as one instead of getting picked off issue by issue.

I knew all along that Obama is doing the bidding of a Shadow Government in which he goes along to stay alive.Does anyone remember the events that led to the death of Paul Wellstone and family.Death Squads do not limit themselves to foreign lands.

Why the implication in your final paragraph that DeFazio’s statements are suspect?

DeFazio has one of the finest progressive records in the House of Representatives. He was on our side before Obama came along and my guess he will still be here on our side after Obama is gone.

No one is answering in Kerry’s office.

They’re all scrambling to find the best way to protect us from the insidious threat to our way of life posed by people who hang tea bags from their rearview mirrors (See John Kerry Fears People Who Hang Tea Bags from Their Rearview Mirrors (Dec 15, 2009)).

Ding ding ding ding ding ding

And the prize goes to kelly Canfield

Shakespeare’s Henry VIII Act IV Scene II: Katherine says of Wolsey (Obama):
“His promises were, as he was then, mighty,
But his performance, as he is now, nothing.”

DeFazio is pretty well entrenched in a tough, mixed district and is locally respected for his independence. His district is a university town plus some logging, tourism, farming, and bluecollar areas that weren’t too thriving last I looked.

Where are the petitions to tell the progressive lberals that are standing against this bad health reform that we are with them. That we support them. Isn’t it interesting, there is no way for the populace to voice their opinion to Obama now that they oppose this terribly gutted health care bill. Howard Dean for President!

This bill isn’t perfect but giving 30 million low/middle income people health insurance is an important first step.

It doesnt GIVE anything. You get a subsidy that will pay for part of the policy. Additionally, the baseline policy is reported to have a $4,000 deductible. Also, Reid put in yearly expense caps and rates can adjust by age (300% more) and pre-existing condition (50% more). It actually achieves coverage by mandating people to buy those kinds of policies, all the while not giving them enough for even a fig leaf of care.

In closing, having a health insurance policy in no way guarantees care, which is actually want we want, people to receive care.

Now let me take my foil hat off!

Yeah, it’s really shocking. It sounds like a massive clusterf*ck at the moment. I just got off the phone with Franken’s staffer and he says things are so up in the air at the moment no one knows exactly what is and what isn’t in the bill. I suspect that is the truest thing I’ve been told all day.

I’ve also added Rockefeller, Harkin, and Kerry to the list. Kerry’s a real piece of work. In addition to asking about the individual mandate (what? what are you talking about?) I asked about his vote on the Dorgan amendment. The staffer tried to sell me on his vote for Lautenberg. Oops! That was a mistake ; ) Never give a hothead like me an opening like that… She didn’t seem to appreciate my point of view that Dems promise voters one thing, then do another. Funny that.

Yeah, I saw that : ) It was brilliant! Kerry is totally useless, has been for years. He’s DLC covered in ketchup. Ick.

When will FAUX and Cos. start announcing that Obama is no socialist, communist, etc? Barry, you are no Hugo or Evo, both would have spat in the face of the corporations and told us all about what they were pushing behind the curtain.

Instead you lapped up what they fed you, kept on talkin’talkin’talkin’talkin’ about change.

I am going to keep talkin’ too. Talkin’ about how we are NOT gonna pay “no mandates without a public option.” More than talk about it, I mean.

Thank you, Phred!!

Now this is politics done right.

DeFazio floating this story is masterful.

Not only do Progressives in safe seats have good reason to vote against this farce that can no longer be called reform.

Anyone with a “D” after his or her name who’s in a not-so-safe seat has good reason to vote against this farce that can no longer be called reform, too.

Btw, keep up the good work, all you sellout-former-reformers (Rockefeller), Consveradem assholes, and everyone over at the White House who thought listening to Rahm was a good idea (that includes you, Obama).

Maybe you can mix it up this time; Rockefeller can call DeFazio “irrational” and the White House can send Gibbs out to call him “irresponsible” and say that he “should know better” and that he “should be ashamed of himself.”

Having fucked up health care reform so royally, the least you can do is help us remove you from power. You’re doing great so far! So, thanks.

I admit I got a little caught up in this mandate thing at first because it doesn’t seem right for the government to force me to buy overpriced insurance, but don’t 85% of Americans already have government or private insurance coverage?

Aren’t we talking about 47M who don’t have coverage, about a third undocumented aliens who won’t follow the rules anyway, about a third poor who will get government assistance to pay for it, and about a third who are young and healthy and don’t think they need insurance.

It’s really not going to affect very many people is it?

And it’s why Dean was never going to be the nominee in 2004. I’m not all about media cabals or conspiracies, but the thing is that the media, every year with both parties figures out who has the backing of enough bigwigs and who has enough money, and thats the “front-runner.” Usually a second tier candidate is also chosen just to make the horse race more interesting. I mean look at 2008 it was Clinton for damn near two years and then Obama, but both passed the media smell test for not being too radical. On the right they have Ron Paul who regularly mopped the floor with the other GOPer’s and had fervent support and money, but didn’t have party insiders and was much too radical.

Thing is I don’t think you can build a movement off of presidential politics because this vetting process likes subtle variations of the status quo.

By the way, I should point out that I keep getting bounced to voicemails because the phone lines are all busy. I call back though and get through eventually.

Also, I would like to point out that Amy Klobuchar’s staff needs to get Miss Manners’ book for Christmas. I was hung up on when I said I was from MA rather than MN. I called back : ) Nope. Really shouldn’t give a hothead like me an opening like that ; )

It’s also why I really don’t fear Palin getting the nomination in 2012. Sure the GOP is kissing her ass right now because the base loves her, but once the campaign starts the long knives will come out and it will be like “we were always at war with Eurasia.”

Actually he only appears spineless as he and is minions take their lobbyist payouts by saying one thing in public and trading it away in private. Ill mannered liberals that get in the way of his gravy train may end up seeing the Chicago side of his demeanor. Thus he may do to Democrats what he would not even conceive of doing to Republicans and ex-Democrats.

While I can be encouraged by DeFazio’s stance, I can also see why Jane indicates some skepticism. I call it the “teeter-totter” tactic.

You ever play that game as a kid, where you get on a teeter-totter at the middle, and try to balance it in the middle, or make it get close to the ground, but not actually touch the ground one on side?

That’s what’s happening with the Progressives or populists. It’s that one side of the teeter-totter and if they land all the way on the ground on the populist side, they’re against the DLC/New Democrat side and all that corporate money goes buh-bye.

The vote is where you touch down on one side or another, and that’s the standard to use on all the Democrats.

How do we separate Obama from the old Clintonistas? Top on the list, Rahm Emanuel.

Was Obama always a secret Clintonista & and I just didnt see it throughout the whole campaign?

Obama & the Clintonistas are taking the Dems right over the cliff. I hope Obama wakes up and fixes this bill before its all over for him before he even gets started. The ways things are now, it is just lose big, or lose bad, or lose superbad, in 2010 and 2012. How did it all go so wrong so fast?

About half of the 30 million people who would gain coverage would gain coverage through expanded Medicaid eligibility – this would have the greatest benefits for the working poor. So these individuals (people at or slightly above the poverty line) would not be buying a policy – they simply would be covered under an existing government health insurance plan.

For those not eligible for Medicaid, the less income you have, the greater the subsidies you would receive to purchase your own insurance plan.

Preventive services like colonoscopies, mammograms, blood sugar tests, etc… would be provided at no cost to eliminate barriers for low income people to get recommended care. And most importantly, insurance companies would not be allowed to impose caps on lifetime benefit eligibility meaning that if you get cancer or heart disease, you wouldn’t be forced to pay tens of thousands of dollars in out of pocket expenses to pay for your care. This would substantially reduce the large numbers of people who are going bankrupt due to medical bills.

There are a lot of great things in the Senate and House bills which will do great things for the health of low/middle income people.

To give credit where it was due, I just got a call back from Kerry’s office in response to a message I left on Wednesday about the Dorgan amendment. The fellow who called me (I failed to jot down his name) was really really great. He also said they are getting a lot of calls on the individual mandate. I hope we are getting their attention…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AOJBiklP1Q

It is really clear that what Obama et.al. are interested in doing is demonstrating that the progressive wing of the party can not set the agenda and they are betting the farm on the assumption that we will do anything to keep the repugs from regaining power. The probably know well enough that they can’t win without us but they are really underestimating the level of frustration they have caused and will end up paying for it. Perhaps not with the WH but certainly with the congress.

I remember the Wellstone incident. I read in depth about it. He had not one but TWO veteran pilots flyingin one the best turbo prop planes ever designed and, for reasons still unknown, the plane veered wildly off course 2 minutes before it would have landed while on it’s approach. Also killed, I recall were two of his aids.
Welcome to Rome. Who shall be our Octavian?

About half of the 30 million people who would gain coverage would gain coverage through expanded Medicaid eligibility

And Medicaid, unlike Medicare, is funded through the states. How many states right now have the money to take in all those extra millions of people?

It’s a shell game.

We’ve found another one>>>

You know, the spineless, bedwetting, pee-your-pants conservadem who is afraid of not getting re-elected when LAST ELECTION HE GOT 80% OF THE VOTE!

What the fuck does this DeFazio need to vote like an true American statesman on the most important issue of our generation and the country’s future?

Never mind this worn out, old school moron siding with the rethuglicon obstructionists, his district should vote him out of office just for reinforcing the “No Balls” wishy-washy populist “My favorite color is plaid” sterotype of dems during the Bushie years.

President Fluffball is “keeping track” of the millions of outraged voters who are disgusted by his refusal to prosecute Cheney, Bush and the rest of that traitorous administration, his imperial escalation of the criminal occupation of Afghanistan for the purpose of installing US oil and gas pipelines, his evil drone murders of Pakistani peasants who represent no possible threat to us, 8,000 miles away, his gutless trashing of health care reform with the single payer plan “off the table,” the public option put in the Demo deep freeze and the Medicare-buy-in dumped. bit with creating 40,000,000 new indentured servants for the unregulated greedy private insurance corporations? Go “cheney yourself, sir.”

How about Dean/Franken?

As one wag, quoted by Matt Taibbi, said, Obama put together a team of Rubins.

If DeFazio is in a +2 district? it would make sense. However, unless Pete has lost a lot of ground, and I mean a LOT of ground, his district is more like +15. There has rarely been a challenger willing to go up against DeFazio as a result of his values being those of the majority of people in the district.
The city and area surrounding Eugene, OR is not going to suffer a fool for a representative. I sure would like to see the polling data that shows him at only +2. This would be a major news story in Oregon, and I haven’t seen any mention of this.

But as to the rest of the story, Obama clearly needs to go. He has lied more than McCain, and that is his real accomplishment.

Sorry, but that’s bullshit. They are not “giving” 30 million people anything. These (we) people need health care, not a crap insurance policy.

aknarayan December 18th, 2009 at 8:29 am

#23

This bill isn’t perfect but giving 30 million low/middle income people health insurance is an important first step…
The lesson is to get an imperfect bill passed and then work to amend it over time.

Yes – just look at HOW WELL that has worked for NAFTA – American WORKERS are partying in the streets on how well NAFTA has worked out for them! Oooops my mistake – all those workers were milling about around the unemployment office looking for non-existent jobs.

No this travesty (like NAFTA) will not be revisited – unless it is to make it WORSE by cutting what ever (surely to be) minuscule subsidies make it’s way into this travesty of a bill. I already hear the RETHUGHS pulling out their “entitlement” meme along with their shears to trim out the “entitlements” when they RETAKE congress.

The only thing that will be left of this travesty IS THE MANDATE to buy an inferior product at an inflated cost with no REAL help in affording it -FROM a private for PROFIT CORPORATION.

Remember the warnings about NAFTA? Well the same WARNINGS are flashing RED on the DANGERS of this travesty about to be visited on US also – but people who speak out AGAINST it are being maligned and spit ON by the White House and Obama (like Howard Dean – why did they not attack the BlueDogs as they are doing to progressives). Just like with NAFTA, we have been SOLD OUT by the DLC BlueDog COnservaDems – and there will be NO INtention, let alone WILL to GO BACK to fix this travesty REMEMBER NAFTA!!!!!

With ENACTMENT of this bill AMERICA ceases being a Democracy and becomes a FULL FLEDGED fascist state.

American Democracy is Dead – Long live corporate fascism!

This report, if true, isn’t essential to the storyline. It is obvious that Obama is not taking the gloves off, he’s letting his mask slip. Dick Cheney, on the other hand, governs the same with or without the mask, and he never wears gloves.

David Dayen has a fresh cross-post up: “While You Were Sleeping”

They prbly cant believe their good fortune. The president and the democrats are about to pass a republican bill without one republican vote. Sweet! They know that the forced mandate without a public option is going to be a democrat killer in the future and they are prbly waiting with bated breath for Obama and the dems to push this on the American people. The sht is going to hit the fan when people start getting fined by the IRS for not paying their AETNA bill and the repubs will be able to point the finger at the dems. I cant believe that people who are supposed to be so smart cant see a couple of years down the road and ask themselves what is the worse case scenario. Millions of people getting penalized by the government for not paying their AETNA bill is going to be a nightmare for the party that pushed this thru.

“He’s makin’ a list,
Checkin’ it twice,
Gonna find out who’s naughty or nice…..”

Fair point – this is one of the major contentions of people like Ben Nelson. However if our goal is to cover the uninsured, then it is inevitable that it will cost money and we will have to find a way to pay for it.

Maybe additional aid to the states will make up for these costs.

Yet he rarely leaves fingerprints….

Ummm, you gotta keep up. I heard they scrapped the lifetime and annual benefit cap exemptions.

I’m going to start annoying you all by admitting yet again that I’m a political novice. I’ll likely say it from time to time until I’ve lived through at least the next two election cycles with you.

I read this as a win for a few reasons:

We now have another piece of evidence to show every time someone gives Jane shit for focusing Rahm. She and Sam were right.

The sellout-former-reformers (Rockefeller), Consveradem assholes, everyone over at the White House who thought listening to Rahm was a good idea, Chris Matthews, etc think they’re building a narrative that “Liberals” hate Americans and want to deny them so-called reform.

But that’s not the narrative they’re building.

What they’re building is a narrative that shows us standing up to sellouts and that shows the sellouts as people who are willing to twist the truth and push bullshit on the American people by means of fearmongering.

If nothing else, what DeFazio did by floating this story – by taking their assholishness public, though it was meant to be private, by shining light on Rahm and Obama – seems to me to add to the exact narrative that we want to build as we work to get progressive candidates elected.

Wouldn’t it be nice if everybody sent the White House a little note, like this one:

“Don’t think we’re not keeping score, brother.”

Mesa, glad you used the word “statesman’.

Not heard much anymore-underused and understandably so.

A statesman is concerned with the greater good of the people.

A politician just wants to get re-elected.

I wonder how many others will start to see that a party “w” for a bill that mandates paying 8% of your income to private corporations and using the IRS as a collection agency is political suicide for them, and come to the same conclusion as Massa before we’re through.

Way to destroy the legitimacy of the IRS! Millions will refuse to pay the fines. Just saying “no” to other taxes will suddenly be morally acceptable. The country comes apart like a rotten jack-o-lantern, and I finally look like a genius for moving to the middle of a goddamn desert.

Yep, some of the most dramatic and beautiful landscape anywhere; not to mention some of the cleanest rivers for fishing and rafting. :-)

I don’t believe you can discuss the house and senate bills in the same paragraph as if the were equal. I also believe a good deal of the “good” you describe has been weakened in the senate bill.

Bernie Sanders just told Thom Hartmann he was still leaving it open where he would come out because so much remains up in the air. He said he’s been in touch with the White House. It sounded like he was “keeping score.”

I don’t know if it is reasonable to compare a trade bill to the creation of a new entitlement

That said, I don’t know enough about trade policy but I do know that we have a notoriously weak safety net that doesn’t really do much to help workers out if they have lost a job due to outsourcing.

I never thought of holiness to include asses-but assholiness is priceless!

And then another derivative-assholier.

“Assholier than thou”….LOVE it!

I hear he hired Rahm to be his enforcer. Obama is much to prissy to get his hands dirty. Ways he has proved to be spineless:
Nominating Hilary Clinton to be Head of State
Filling his cabinet with Wall Street Banksters
Not starting health care with Single Payer instead of this BS public option
I’ve been posting too much on this thread, so I won’t go on so that I dont get accused of being a troll. But I could easilly fill about 6 paragraphs.

Maybe Bernie Sanders could stand on a chair just a little higher and deeper than JoeLie and Nelson. Maybe the best card is played last?

Oh, that would be nice.

“keeping score”.
awesome. I didn’t realize “change we can believe in” meant “Richard Nixon”.

Obama and the other democrats selling out the base better remember that the progressives are keeping score.

I eagerly look foward to the day Obama loses reelection. Send a loud and clear message to conservadems..fuck with the base at your peril.

Yeah a Republican may get into office. So what we already have a Republican in office.

Maybe Rahm’s star is a little dirtier now. Maybe everyone will realize he’s a fucking moron who’s going to cost the party everything.

Sanders isn’t going to do shit.

He went from towing the party line of “We have to pass something’ to a stance of “I’ll vote no” without saying if he meant no on cloture or the final vote..and now last night on KO he went back to

“I don’t know how I’ll vote”

Sanders is a faker..he only does the right thing when it’s convienient for him.

The hero worship has to stop on our side..it keeps getting us into trouble. That hero worship is why we have Obama now.

I think what is MOST telling is that the Republicans are not yammering about the individual mandate, pressing for it to be taken out of the bill.

That means it’s the one thing they all agree on; shoveling cash at the industry.

Very Good Point. Also. Right on.

Why should anybody be “afraid” of Rahm? The guy caves into whatever Lieberman demands of him like a good dog to it’s master.

WE Are The Ones that are standing up against Lieberman’s antics, not the White House!!

Yup. The GOP is just angry Obama might get credit for it. Just think how much more cash the GOP will attempt to shovel industry’s way when it comes back into power. The “whites only” “private insurers only” sign Obama has hung out works more to their strengths than it does the Democratic Party’s.

No, the comparison between Social Security passage and the current situation is not apples/apples.

Social Security fundamentally changed things, introducing an entirely new element.

The current Senate sausage parts comprise only an enhancement to the current system, by mandating the public shovel its cash to a socially damaging industry.

They’re acting like we’re the problem, but no one’s buying it.

They’re scared out of their minds.

What Jane did last night was so right on that I can’t stop smiling about it.

Btw, let’s thank Ed for his work yesterday morning against Axelrod and on his own show against Lanny before Jane came on and, of course, Laura Flanders.

Quoting fflambeau: “Laura Flanders who followed Jane [did a great job] taking Lanny to the woodshed with this classic line, ‘Lanny is working for the folks who made the coup in Honduras so no wonder he’s not bothered by corporate influence back here at home.’”

If anyone’s interested in seeing some of the responses across the internet to Jane’s beau geste in smacking down that shill last night, see Jane, You’re the Best!

I guess every precedent is worthy when the divide is not right/left or GOP/Democrat, but inny vs. outy, Village and corporate insiders vs. the rest of the country, who only have the Constitution, laws, history and moral right behind them. Look how easily Bush and Obama toss away the 4th amendment.

I was not talking of the TRADE BILL itself – I WAS referring to the WARNINGS ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES of NAFTA – and the CONSEQUENCES have been CATASTROPHIC for American workers.

The same is true of this BILL… THE Warnings ARE BLARING AND FLASHING RED – but NO ONE at the WH is listening – and by making BACK ROOM DEALS WITH THESE CRIMINALS they (this admin in general and BO in particular) are now PART of this CRIMINAL CABAL.

This Bill is NOT about Universal Health CARE – it is a GIVE AWAY to the INSURANCE GANGSTER CARTEL – and will ENTRENCH and EMBED the INSURANCE CARTEL – run for the SOLE purpose of OBSCENE PROFITS -, even deeper into the bowels of our society. Just as with NAFTA, this is a COST we CAN NOT afford.

The W.H. is also, in effect, RESCUING a DYING industry – left on it’s on, with it’s ever increasing NEED for PROFIT, the Health insurance GANGSTERS were continuously PRICING people OUT of the market – Now they will BE SAVED by a FEDERAL MANDATE…

Still believe in Santa now do we “aknarayan@23″?

You don’t “fix” bills after they are passed and most important of all this piece of shit bill from the senate with a mandate is extortion and coersion of middle working class America plain and simple.

If you don’t see that then you might want to quit drinking the “win is a win at any price” kool-aid the WH is serving up this week…

You gotta understand “aknarayn”…If HCR IS NOT PASSED 122 Americans a day who cannot afford health insurance will continue to die. On the other hand…
If HCR with a mandate but no public options or a Medicare buy-in IS PASSED 122 Americans per day will still continue to die – And that number will go up, up and UP every month because even more Americans will loose their health care insurance because they can’t afford it. Those that don’t die but don’t have health insurance will probably be fined by the IRS or sent to jail.

Is this what you really and truly want? Is this the “Change You Can Believe In”? WAKE UP ALREADY!

I don’t know if it is reasonable to compare a trade bill to the creation of a new entitlement

What new entitlement? There is an individual mandate which forces people to buy crap insurance. Yes, there will be subsidies for some but you ignore high deductibles and copays which will make such insurance still largely unusable. The result in such a case is just a wealth transfer from taxpayers to insurance companies. As for those dumped into Medicaid, many physicians aren’t taking Medicaid patients. So again how are they really helped. Then you rather blithely say maybe increased aid to the states might help out. Why isn’t such aid part of the bill? Oh yes, because the whole point was to keep the price tag below some arbitrary limit.

You sound very reasonable but you seem to have bought completely into Obamacare which is crap. Around here we call that putting lipstick on a pig.

awesome. I didn’t realize “change we can believe in” meant “Richard Nixon”.

That is totally uncalled for. As I have said before, Nixon was to the left of Obama.

I eagerly look foward to the day Obama loses reelection. Send a loud and clear message to conservadems..fuck with the base at your peril

They will just blame the progressive base. They will say that we were too doctrinaire, that we were naïve, and that in future they will need to move even further to the right.

Well that’s good news : ) Now if some of the other “progressive” Senators would get off the sidelines and lend Sanders a hand we might get somewhere…

Yep. It’ll be 1994; all over again.

Christ, I was only 14, but I remember the liberal-purge that followed.

Hey gitch, did you catch the GOP “Pray-In” snippett on TRMS last night?

The way all those Talibangelical nut jobs were “prayin’” that Obama, HCR, gay marriage and democrats in general would fail it was really scary. I half expected to see those “Assholier than thou” (LOVE IT!) jeezuz freaks to jump up and start handling snakes, speaking in tongues and do some laying on of hands faith healing. Maybe it was my imaginagtion running wild but I thought I saw someone handing out the explosive vests too!

What’s scariest of all is the fact that people in 21st century America voted these psychotics and psychopaths into political office!! Can witch hunts and public stonings for saying the earth is round be far behind?

Hey, Obama I’m fucking keeping score too. You’ve lied on so goddamn many campaign promises you’ve “scored” youself right out of my fucking vote in 2012.

13 and yeah it was the era of Republican Lite, followed by an era of no spine and no ideas.

A-fucking-men Brother!

Yep. It’ll be 1994; all over again.

Also what worries me is that the Democrats will once again learn the wrong lesson from history. It will be spun as a loss because they went too far to the left, rather than depressing the shit out of their base. 1994 was a lot of things, corruption, depressed base, and a still empowered Republican party, but it always seems like it was just conservatives beat liberals and this is a center right nation.

Jane,

In CT, there are three Democrats who won last time around but could easily be beaten as well. They are:

Joe Courtney (CT-2)
Jim Himes (CT-4)
Chris Murphy (CT-5)

Another thing Jane—John B. Larson of the First District is very close to Nancy Pelosi and part of the Democratic Leadership as well. Larson is the House Democratic Caucus chair having replaced Rahm Emanuel who left to become Obama’s Chief of Staff. Perhaps it would be worth looking into Mr. Larson’s associations, but, Larson once headed an insurance agency himself.

Jane remember this about John B. Larson: In an article written by Jesse Hamilton of the Hartford Courant, Larson actually “compared [Rahm] Emanuel with Gen. George S. Patton, the stop-at-nothing warrior, and himself with the less colorful Gen. Omar Bradley, who became the first chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.” This is what Larson told Hamilton about the way he viewed Emanuel–as George Patton. Incredible!!!

Jane, the deference shown to Rahm Emanuel and Joe Lieberman by these Democrats is astonishing to say the least.

According to Mr. Murphy:

“To fix this broken system, we must set two compatible goals: covering all Americans, and lowering the cost of the health care. In order to construct a cheaper system of universal care, I believe that the federal government needs to take a much stronger role in our health care system – to cover the presently uninsured and reign in the ineffective and often unfair tactics of private insurers. I am excited to serve on the House Energy and Commerce’s Committee’ Health Subcommittee where, with the Obama Administration, we will tackle this problem and make sure that every American has access to quality health care.”

Jim Himes wrote:

“Last weekend, the U.S. House of Representatives passed the HR 3962, the Affordable Health Care for America Act, which will allow us to join every other civilized nation on the planet in offering each of our citizens decent, affordable healthcare….The House stood against the exploding costs of health care which annually devastate business, non-profit and government budgets….The long, intense, sometimes raucous process was worth it. I emerged convinced that to do nothing, as we have done for decades, would be to abdicate our responsibility to the economic, physical and moral health of our nation….I also realized that reform would be neither perfect nor definitive. What President Obama ultimately signs into law will be a historic first step….”

Full Himes article @:
http://www.newstimes.com/default/article/Health-Reform-Bill-an-Important-Historic-First-267456.php

From John B. Larson, (CT-01 – November 8, 2009:

“Today, we have taken an historic step towards making this needed reform a reality. For the first time in history this body has taken a vote in favor of providing quality, affordable health care for the American people. We are offering those with insurance the security and stability of knowing their health care can’t be taken away because they get too sick or have a pre-existing condition. It tells American families who don’t have insurance that they can choose a health plan that fits their needs ….This is a new day in America – one when no family faces financial ruin because someone gets sick, and no child goes untreated because their parents can’t afford to take them to the doctor. I am honored to have the opportunity to take this vote today and I urge my colleagues in the Senate to take action on this important issue.”

Hell yess! I’d take Nixon now over this clown in a heartbeat.

That sounds about right to me. I don’t think he’s weak – I think he’s acting in the way that makes sense to him. He doesn’t really seem interested in what ordinary people need. He just has to figure out the best way to cover up his real attitude – and that’s by lamenting about how hard it is to “game-change” in DC, saying he’s for something like the drug reimportation bill while having his FDA secretary send out a bogus letter. It’s all about good cop/bad cop to hide Obama and his White House’s corporatism.

BTW, I keep wondering why it’s called “reimportation” – isn’t it just “importation”?

What’s Obama going to do, not campaign for DeFazio while he’s busy raising money for Lincoln and Nelson? That just might be a help to DeFazio in Oregon.

Threaten principled progressives with retribution, check.
Kiss the ass of spiteful conservadems who hold your bill hostage.
I get it.

A very ugly picture of President Hopey Change is emerging.

They’re saying it already.

But in their minds they know better.

Well hold on Nate. I remember 94 as well. If you remember, right wing conservative ideology was ascendant. Rush’s bullcrap had the sheen of something new to Conservatives and they were really feeling their oats. HCR had failed, but NAFTA was also pushed through which depressed the base. Talk Radio had been villainizing the leaders of Congress unremittingly for years (and again that seemed new-ish at the time-at least the Dem leaders seemed to be completely blind-sided by it) Also the R’s had a much wider base because the presidency of Reagan appeared to much of America to have been a success.

The more moderate R’s held with the wack-jobs + a depressed Dem base + talk radio stoking the Gingrich-ites = Democratic disaster.

Right now the hatred for both parties is as high as I have ever seen it. Independent or 3rd party challengers may have the better position this time around and I am all for it.

The European Parliament has more cojones than Barry

A bit off Topic…

I just sent Defazzio an email yesterday. The Oregon Health Plan, our state’s version of Medicaid, just decided to stop paying for dental and vision for it’s recipients. My Brother in law is head injured in a nursing home. He has a hard time chewing and just started the denture process. Oh well, I guess he gets to enjoy pureed foods now. Not sure what’s going to happen when his glasses no longer work for him.

In a country as rich as our nation, we should be able to provide disabled people with the means to EAT and SEE. Hopefully Defazzio will start at home making sure this happens.

The way to pass health care reform is to freeze the premiums till the bill is done.

Too bad the President isn’t listening when the activists that got him elected call HIM out for HIS disloyalty.

Feh. Faugh, even.

Thanks for all you do, Jane!

FunnyWheelieDiva

Yes, Go Phred!! I keep getting bounced as well. When I get asked where I’m calling from, I launch into my spiel that the question is irrelevant since votes of individual Senators outside of my district have national consequences. I also tell them that I no longer donate to the DCCC (talked to the woman in charge of the database to ENSURE my removal from their lists) and that I make my own personal decisions as to who I financially support on a case-by-case basis. Also, when I send a companion email, I just look up a city and zip code in their district and apply it. Oh, and sorry to hear about your brother-in-law topaz4608.

I think what is MOST telling is that the Republicans are not yammering about the individual mandate, pressing for it to be taken out of the bill.

That means it’s the one thing they all agree on; shoveling cash at the industry.

I think they rightly perceive it as a “two-fer”: shoveling cash to the corporations AND hanging the mandates, escalating costs and crappy coverage around the necks of Democrats.

If Obama chooses a Progressive to prove his presidential Manhood, his Bipartisan Kabuki Mask will be stripped away from him, and more likely, the audience will Gasp and try to run out of the theater rather than remain seated and passive under his enchantment.

Come Barack, time for your Face Peel.

Bush did the same thing — Karl Rove told Repubicans that any member voting against Bush’s policies could expect to see a challenger during the next primary.
That’s the way Republicans keep the goose-stepping alive and well!

This is a silly article. How would anyone know they were voting against Mr. O he has never made it clear what he wants. He just defers to congress. Some leader.

When are we going to send a message to Obama from all progressives. WE ARE KEEPING SCORE ON YOU AND SO FAR YOU ARE NOT LOOKING GOOD MR.PRESIDENT. Let not be fooled by this underlying threat. I have already SENT JANE a plan and it can work so all the talk is talk. NOW IT TIME FOR ACTION AND IT SPEAK LOUDER THAN ANY WORDS.

Okay… I **LIKE** this man.

A “Democrat” with guts and morals who isn’t afraid to stand up against Rahmbo?

I lived in Pete’s district for 14 years. I miss having a real Democrat representing me in Washington. Sure don’t have any in the White House.

There’s a great (at least it was great early on) thread still up over at Salon’s Table Talk on the Wellstone crash. Much good stuff (and much not so good as well.)