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Last night there was a big party for the press at the White House, and this morning Mika Brzezinski and Savannah Guthrie report back on what was being said by White House officials about Howard Dean and Joe Lieberman:
Mika Brzezinski I won’t name names, but I heard it from several people in the Administration: Howard Dean, very not pleased, with Dr. Dean speaking out about health care reform and this plan.
Savannah Guthrie: Yeah, very irritated. Yes, isn’t it fascinating they don’t seem to be too angry at Lieberman, they’re reserving their fervor for Howard Dean, but actually, one senior official who I talked to this morning paid the highest insult which was to call him irrelevant to the entire health care debate. You know he kind of had his moment in the sun in the last week when this Medicare expansion looked like it was going to be the thing that broke the logjam between the progressives in the party and the moderates, but, of course, because of Lieberman, the Medicare expansion is gone, and now Dean is having what one official called “a tantrum.”
And they think it’s just not helpful, but they say he’s irrelevant because, bottom line is, even though he was meeting yesterday with all the Democrats, a lot of liberals did blow off steam, there’s a lot of frustration, they’re annoyed that the public option is gone, that then they compromised to do the Medicare extension, now it’s gone. At the end of the day, the moderates are holding sway over this bill, but at the end of the day the President’s been able to hold them in line and they think progressives will be with them.
Howard Dean, who is advocating for the House bill over the Senate bill, is apparently under the misconception that there are two branches of Congress and not one.
I wrote a piece for Politico today on how Lieberman is doing exactly what the White House wants: jamming through the Senate Finance Committee bill they negotiated last summer, which had neither a public plan nor an expansion of Medicare benefits (but a sweetheart PhRMA deal). It completely dispenses with even the fig leaf of a never-to-be-pulled “trigger.” I’m not quite sure why anyone thinks the White House would be upset with what Lieberman is doing, but apparently, they’re not.
According to Lieberman, Obama thanked him privately yesterday.
h/t TWZ
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Senator Sanders on the floor presenting Single payer amendment
http://www.c-span.org/
Why the hell did the Obama administration turn Dean away? Rahm? Now Dean banging heads with Obama, Rahm, Reid?
Dr. Dean on Good Morning America does not want to have to say “Kill the Bill”
We know he is not working for the profits of Insurance companies
http://rawstory.com/2009/12/howard-dean-kill-senate-health-bill-start-reconciliation/
and the house is voting on the escalation of war in afghanistan.
http://www.davidswanson.org/node/2355
Screw the White House – they’re screwing us!
Dr. D and JH are absolutely correct – Kill the Bill!
If Obama, his staff and the senate get their way with this piece of shit bill more Americans will die for lack of affordable health insurance and/or affordable health care.
FYI – Remember when Biden said Obama was going to be tested? Well here it is. We have to show Obama we’re not chumps – Calling it HCR doesn’t make it HCR no matter how he and his administration try to spin it….
And yesterday they passed more unsubstantiated sanctions against Iran. Aipac , Israel pushing right ahead with their agenda. Congress rolling over again
I just got an email from OFA asking me to call my senators to “ring in reform.”
From the email:
I agree. Senators should have put their constituents’ health over lobbyists’ wealth, but they didn’t.
I’ll call my senators to tell them to kill this bill.
not that it matters, but i completely agree.
confession time: i haven’t even seen the senate bill. did i miss something obvious? if so, would someone please take pity on me and give me a link? thanks.
argh! but thanks for the news. i missed that.
Jane Hamsher wants Senate committees to engage in actual oversight.
Howard Dean thinks there are two branches of Congress and not one.
You people are far too radical for me…
the Ins co’s are paying dems on both sides of argument, that way they will definately get what they want. Never another vote, never another dime.
Funny enough, Roll Call’s David Drucker was on WNYC this AM, and he said that Dean was “irrelevant.” I wonder where he got that description. . . .
How was the party, David?
Kill this disgusting insult of a Bill.
And can we please start having a real discussion about a primary challenger for Obama? I’ve posted like 3 diaries….we need to talk about it now or we’ll lose our chance.
He needs to be made to answer to the left.
At least Lieberman did us the favor of ripping off the masks of these assholes.
If they can’t do the right thing for the American people by stopping a little weasel like Lieberman, then they don’t deserve to have power and do deserve to lose big time next year.
Lieberman did us a favor by taking away every little scrap of cover that House and Senate Dems and Obama would have had to call what they’re passing “reform” without the American people laughing at them.
So, thanks, Joe. You’re a dick, but we have to thank you for making it all the easier for us to challenge failed Democrats in the House and Senate as we work to get more progressive Democrats (i.e. real Democrats) elected.
I had low expectations for Obama. Too much pretty talk, and the smell of triangulation.
Voted for him, of course. But never could have imagined how badly it has turned out,
so quickly and on so many fronts.
The party in the veal pen?
Always enlightening to read the comments to any Politico article that mentions or in this case, is by Jane. Still, I have to admit the following comment by “PJN” caught me by surprise. (my bold)
Yeah, radical.
Believers in a government of, by and for the people.
Positively socialistic.
Believers in the power of electeds residing in the people, imbued on others only through the people’s consent to be governed.
Hardcore.
And all of this is Howard Dean’s fault; he’s been alive as long as John Freaking Locke and encouraged us to be participants in a democratic society where one person has one vote.
Bad to the bone, baby. Radical.
Because he could not be bought.
Because Rahm hates the good doctor with a passion.
You know, it looks to me as if the truth about Lieberman disturbed them so much that they couldn’t think of a better way to wrap up their statement than to cast the ultimate if moronic insult at Jane as a parting shot.
The truth really does hurt.
Truth is like Kryptonite to Super-Rahm.
isn’t it still being scored and hasn’t been released yet?
I think it’s probably safe to say that it’ll be everything we feared plus a few other bad surprises.
Rahm hates the fifty-state strategy — especially since it worked much better than Rahm’s own “throw shitloads of money at DINOs and hope they win” strategy. As DCCC head, Rahm wanted the incoming Dems to be indebted to him; Dean just wants to have more and better Dems.
Yeah, Dean likely wants a bit of his own back after being crapped on by Rahm — but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong. Far from it.
Fuck ‘em all.
Barack, Rahm and the rest of the pricks.
By the way, I’m shocked to hear Jane is a GOP tool!
Maybe America needs another bout of President Palin and a GOP-er majority to finish it off.
-G
Jane is right that this is all Rahm. But, it is Obama, too. He’s the one who chose Rahm to be hsi chief of staff. It’s apparent that Obama doesn’t have the balls or intelligence to find a way to help ordniary Americans. He is playing the game of rethugicans vs. demochickens, and hoping that by some miracle, demochickens will be elected the next term. This is politics as usual. Corporaations get all they want, and ordinary Americans can either accept it or move to Canada.
We have to do something to turn this around. Jane is right to take aim at Rahm. We will have to take aim at everybody who has played along – inclusing all demochikens who have killed any hope that ordinary Americans have had. This is not the hope that I can believe in – it is inexorable moving toward oligarchy, commonly known as fascism.
Another very important area of citizen understanding is that “ballot access” (laws and administrative procedures) in the US has been “deformed, spindled and mutilated” into something far different than what it was in the beginning and what it was intended to be– a system that is inclusive, transparent and accountable. If memory serves me correctly, a bulk of the legal changes reducing ballot access to citizens started about the time of Reconstruction (near the time the rumor of corporate personhood took off [reference: http://www.tompaine.com/Archive/scontent/7603.html). An excellent tutorial/introduction regarding those changes is the book, A Reason To Vote, by Ron Roth (a link: http://www.amazon.com/Reason-Vote-Robert-Roth/dp/0312243162). Next, I recommend coming up to speed on the current ballot issues presented by so-called “e-voting” and fraud. A famous example of ballot fraud is the “stuffing of Duval box 13″ such that a whole lot of dead people voted (see the excerpt from Review: Deliver the Vote: A History of Election Fraud, an American Political Tradition – 1742-2004, by Tracy Campbell, http://books.google.com/books?id=tQ4QgnUER9AC&pg=PA228&lpg=PA228&dq=lbj+duval+vote&source=bl&ots=qKyVnec_ty&sig=UkYEsHHXnJQXirJhgpQKV6fUKAI&hl=en#v=onepage&q=&f=false). Fraud is one of the reasons the elect of the current US president needed to be a statisical landslide any way it was sliced so that a broken Supreme Court couldn’t get involved as in Gore vs. Bush (Note: Supremes violating the oaths and ethics of their office can and should be removed (provided there is an integrous US House and Senate). The precident for this the impeachment of Samuel Chase in 1805 [some references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Chase and http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_a_US_Supreme_Court_justice_be_impeached_and_removed_from_office). A great place to come up to speed is over at Brad Blog (http://www.BradBlog.com). Pass it on!
where are all the tea bagging douchebags now ? ( i know the answer to this i just want to hear from one of them in case the lurkers want to pipe up).. so where are all the demonstrations now “tea party” morons?? you guys a-ok with the individual mandate? taxes on your policies but not the rich? thats just fine and dandy? cause tea baggers seem to have diappeared right off the radar. isnt that fucking amazing? this “popular movement” just dissappears overnight as fast as they popped up?? amazing
and the good doctor hates rahm you can be sure.
The WH thinks they can spin this disaster of a bill as a major step forward. The WH is delusional. What the WH fails to understand is that the people were fired up & ready to fight for change … we had such hope when we elected Obama.
This is not the change I was fired up for. Whats worse for the Dems, is that the WH really thinks the base and all the people who fought to elect Obama will accept this & eventually come around once Obama gives another beautiful speech. Enough with the speeches. How about some action????
I got fooled by Obama, once; I wont get fooled again. And, Im not happy to say it. So, will I vote Republican IN 2010? NO. NEVER. I just wont vote IN 2010. And, I think the Republicans will make big gains in 2010. And, then, Obama can spend the rest of his term catering more & more to Lieberman and the others like him.
The unitary executive lives. There aren’t even three branches of government anymore.
There is still a lot of blind devotion to Obama out there, although to my surprise it is noticeably diminished at TPM and DK.
yep. I had low expectations, which are slowly (issue by issue) being confirmed. He wants to be the president of centrist America. Since that America doesn’t really exist, it really just means that he aspires to spineless, corporatist mediocrity, of a nature designed to make nobody happy. He’s Gerald Ford, but more articulate.
thanks! i thought everyone had seen it but me, and i couldn’t find it!
Oh, exactly. So is honest self-examination — which is why he’s still convinced that the lack of signed health care reform bill (killed by us dirty hippies eeeeek!) is what doomed the Dems in 1994, when in fact Rahm’s demoralizing the Dem base (most of which is decidedly non-hippie) with his NAFTA “kill the unions” sellout was much more of a factor.
Ouch!
Thank you sir, may I have another?
And, may I say this again? I don’t think Howard was yelling that hard, right before they took him down. Long time ago. He’s excuberant and the mikes sucked.
*
Sloooooowwwwww…..Dooooowwwwn. Brought to you by, why yes, Thank You, Tom.
Maybe some will get bored out and decide to kill the whole thing.
If only Obama had fought for REAL health care reform as much as Bush lied about Iraq War intel…..
Honestly, Dean worried me last week when he started praising the penultimate Senate deal.
He backed off it even befor this latest bullshit, though.
Now this morning I got an mail from Weiner talking about Lieberman blaming him and Hacker for L’s decision to pan the weak medicare buy-in.
Here’s the email:
What’s wrong with it?
Doesn’t it sound like Weiner is begging for that weak Senate deal from last week?
Are we now supposed to be begging Lieberman to let us have that piece of shit compromise of a compromise of a compromise?
If that’s what we’re supposed to be begging for now, we’ve come a long way from what we started out demanding.
there might be other options than no vote or r-vote. and not necessarily third party options. if we could actually get some genuine liberals to vote for we would be better off.
Dr. Dean has never given me reason to doubt his veracity.
The transformation of Obama from a populist to a corporatist in just 11 months is so beyond comprehension, I have to think that this is the real Obama. Everything we’ve seen and heard during the campaign, including his sympathy for his mother and those like her who struggle with medical bills even as they are dying on a hospital bed, were all a facade. Obama the candidate was manufactured to get votes.
We’re alone in this thing. There’s going to be no Democratic help and no Whitehouse help to get us the kind of price controls we need for the middle class to finally move up. We’ll be kept as slaves to the credit cards companies and the insurance companies until we die with piles of bills left for our children. This is the reality. Time to move to Canada or time to get a third party. The dems are the same assholes as the republicans.
Of course, Rahm and the rest of the Beltway inside crowd will spin this — in fact, are already spinning this — as “Obama’s going to lose in 2010 because he’s tried to push the nation too far to the left”. Just like they spun the 1994 losses.
Nov 2010 will be our first chance at derailing the neoliberal train called Congress.
Dean – Franken. 2012
Do what the good doctor would want you to do: Take over your local party orgs, then work your way up. However, this takes a lot of work and committment and heartbreak, but so does anything worth doing.
thats really it isnt it? its like a little game where he gets to suprise everyone with his “bi partisanship” mediocridity and outsmart us all. hes sooo smart. i admire the republicans for electing people who can be counted on to do what they say ( although its usually some of the worst shit possible). im sick of democrats who need to be admired and well thought of. I DONT think well of you PO, i dont like you, and your not very smart apparently.
And thats exactly what the problem with the Obama WH is. They have it all backwards. The havent gone too far to the left, they’ve gone too far to to the right. And, in doing so, they are going to disillusion all those young voters who BELIEVED in the message of change. The Dems may lose those young voters for another generation, if not longer, with this health care bill.
did you get this one ?
linkage
Ditto. Fuck ‘em all. Fuck Obama and Fuck the democrats.
well he inspires me to do that. not perfect but full of that town meeting sensibility from governing and living in Vermont. you just have to start doing it.
We knew something when Mr. Emanuel got COS instead of the doctor. Don’t you think?
(You should see the cookie exchange table at work. I thing of beauty.)
Given the betrayal that progressives have suffered by the congress it is time to go after the congressional Dems where it will hurt. I am talking about contributions to the DSCC and the DCCC. Do rank and file democratic donors realize that contributions to these committees go to support the very people that have so failed us? There are better places where democratic contributors can send their money (e.g. ActBlue.) It is time to take on these congressional money machines by letting democratic donors know what their contributions are buying.
Lieberman to keep things churning in the Senate
Rahm to keep things churning in the WH
Goldman Sachs to keep things churning in the finance sector
Israel to keep wars and hatred churning for the MIC
Murdoch to keep the mouthpiece MSM in line
Aipac to pay all the bribes needed
What do you think your call will do? Unless you can contribute the maximum allowed funds to your senator’s campaign, you’re just a dirty unwashed ignorant irritant to him. Accept it.
Let’s see… Dean is the guy who was head of the DNC that was instrumental in getting Obama and his house of loons elected !! So, if Dean is irrelevant then THEY are irrelevant.
Leiberwocky is just a straight up traitor to the country.
thats not true. they pay attention to those calls, the way retail operationa pay attention to sales tracking data. the NEED that information. whether or no they are beholden to whicever special interest or no, they need lots of those calls.
If Jane is a GOPer tool, then I’m now a Republican with a smile.
Jane’s a tool? Hey, I got your tool, right here PJN asshole.
Howard Dean in 2012
It’s what we do here.
Learn it, get over it.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
(Just a bit of advice for a newbie. Unless, you don’t want to be a real resident here. In that case, have at it.)
we have to talk with our wallets, time for progressives to close the bank vault and start turning to 2016 because the next 7 yrs are lost!
If we keep supporting the status quo we will get the status quo forever.
Sometimes you need to take 3 steps back just to get 1 step ahead Folks and if that means letting a republican take the wh, then so be it because we need a real progressive in there and that will take time to build, but if we keep twitling are thumbs it will never happen.
The “Yeeeaaagh!” episode was an example of the powers that be (from both parties) and a compliant media taking down a popular (but un-anointed) candidate with real potential to shake things up. The possibility of Dean getting elected and actually changing something scared the bejeezus out of both parties.
Which is how Obama got in, the power brokers knew his populism was a sham, that deep down he was just like them… a corp tool.
Corruption comes from the top; its correction comes from the grassroots.
*COUGH* It didn’t take 11 months! It took a few days! He was IMMEDIATELY all stiff dicked about giving OUR money to Goldman-Sachs, BoA, and the rest of the criminal cabal the instant he dropped his hand from his swearing in!
11 months my ass. Obama hasn’t changed stripes, he has merely washed off the paint that covered his stripes.
Howard Dean paved the way for Obama to be in the White House by devising the 50 state strategy. When Obama couldn’t be bothered to give Dean a cabinet post, I thought that was pretty shitty. I’m really fucking sorry the White House is “irritated” because I’m fucking furious.
As I mentioned in an earlier post can’t we get down on our hands and knees and beg Bernie Sanders to kill this bill. Or would they then decide that 51 votes is just dandy. How I hate them all!
oh but he has “no neck”….he looks like “a dork”….his laugh is “goofy”
shitwits who vote for people based on what they look like
It all makes sense when we remember that Lieberman mentored Obama. And that Obama supported Lieberman over Lamont.
The Senate is a club. One of the club members is now President. The club’s health care bill is the one Obama will shove down our throats.
He used our hatred of Bush to propel himself into the White House.
I think back to the two or three times I genuinely applauded his soaring rhetoric during the campaign and feel total disgust with myself for being duped.
Voting for the lesser evil is beyond stupid. Progressive should be very vocal and visible on election day, telling the Dems. that we are voting ‘present’. (no confidence – none!)
Voters knew Bush & Repubs had screwed up – and so, Obama won.
But during the past year, Obama has done very LITTLE to accommodate the concerns of HIS voters – WHILE the teabaggers and Rightists screaming “socialism!” have dominated the landscape.
It appears Obama was on the side of the health care corporatists all along and now that he’s bowed to Citigroup – Rightists are having another hey day.
I don’t understand how Obama thinks Dems can retain control in 2010 considering he and the Dems are losing their frustrated base.
Question, and I honestly don’t know the answer.
Let’s assume, for the sake of argument that the Senate passes whatever crap is on the table now.
Let’s further assume that the House is able to successfully force through conference some improvement in the Senate plan, one that Joe Lieberman has already said he doesn’t like.
At that point the Senate and House have to vote on the conference report. Can that report be filibustered in the Senate or is it up-or-down?
See? I’m still thinking that it’s all a huge sham. Elections are theater. Dean is smart enough and tenacious enough that he might have shone light on the Cabal. Obama not only can’t, but how much fun to point a finger at the Black Man who ruined everything?
If I were you I would worry about whether or not Jesus is coming back in your lifetime. America is in the crosshairs of God’s eyes and you think 9-11 was a nightmare you must be smoking something! The truth is coming out of the closet and soon it will be at the lead!
I can see the spin on the 2010 blood bath.
Liberals caused it by opposing health care reform.
Wow give this ace girl reporter her own Tee Vee show where she can help the New World Corporate Order every day. Oh wait she has that. Then give her a “Pullitzer” for her brilliant reporting, even as good as Cokie or Mrs. Greenspan. Mika is the New Village Star. All the Villagers are shining brightly today with the help of a million dollars a day from those brave and misunderstood lobbyists. It is a good day for the neo-cons.
We all should call our senators, email our senators, try to meet our senators.
I met Harold Ford, Jr. twice. I wish he were my senator. But I’ll be calling Corker all the same, to say that I oppose this bill and to tell him why.
I asked essentially the same question about a month ago and was told that yes, it can be filibustered.
Choosing Rahm as COS was perhaps the most obvious early indication that Barack’s good intentions were a mirage. Still a lot of people blaming Rahm for Obama decisions, though. I’m certain Rahm’s job description includes being the designated scapegoat.
That’s me fuckno.
There IS no “lessor” of two evils. There is just evil.
Some things ARE black-and-white. The Dems are going to lose in droves come 2010 (and 2012). Reap. Sow.
Is it more stupid than voting for the greater of the evils?
Given that there are only two options.
Damn straight.
Have already said that this situation does have one positive outcome.
It makes a chance for a Dean candidacy look much better, doesn’t it? He was right about Iraq, he was right about health care, and that was in 2003.
He’s just not a smooth dude who can be easily compromised; they have no dirt on him except that he’s a proud hockey dad who can shout like one. Which might be exactly what we need, if you think about it.
Come on. Rumors, reportedly saying… the news is so made up. And why should anyone trust what Lieberman has to say about anything?
One can join the campaign to kill the mandate–that would fix the current proposed bill in the eyes of progressives. It would be the only fair thing to do.
It cannot be filibustered. All Obama can do at that point is kill his future by vetoing the bill.
I hope they DO fix it in conference and I hope Obama vetoes because I want that asshole out of office without a chance in 2012.
Sorry Jane but, there’s one part of this that I don’t get. If this was the President’s plan all along, then how does he expect the Dems to be reelected next year? And how does he expect to be reelected in 2012? I don’t see how this awful bill helps them do that. I’m going to wait and se if after passing this garbage they kick Lieberman out and go to reconciliation in January to add the public option and strip out some of the crap.
Afraid I can’t agree with the second statement. Obama could but won’t, because he’s just like them.
Obama got what he wanted. In the end, I’m afraid he will get what he deserves, as well.
I’m hesitant to vilify (or glorify) individual political figures in the struggle for progressive reform — typically, the problems (and solutions) are systemic, rather than personality-based.
On the other hand, I always think back to Obama’s campaign, and how he’d repeatedly trot out the sad story about his mother’s death to show his dedication to health care reform. Now it seems that he’s willing to sacrifice 44,000 such lives per year in order to pass a handout to the insurance companies, purely for corporate and political gain. Reprehensible. I bet mom would be ashamed.
Where is this movement to kill the mandate?
Yet another reason to leave the Democratic Party, become an Independent and search for a Progressive Party that really is a progressive party with progressive candidates.
If none run, then I stay home on election day for the first time in my 55+ year life.
We have the DLC (Republican Wannabee Party) running the White House right now.
Democrats need not push through THEIR Legislation to the Obama White House!!
So who has Obama fucked in the last 2 hours?
You people are hilarious with your concerns. America is heading down the toilet and soon it will be gone. Then what will you complain about? When will it end? Get a clue about what is important, what we can make a difference with, and how we can keep our freedoms!
The bill should be killed because we need Single-Payer National Health Care.
Short Ride speaks of Single Payer as if it were the invention of Satan himself.
At this point, it’s basically the Senate Finance Committee bill, watered down by Reid’s loophole to allow annual limits and one other loophole I’m having a hard time recalling. But if the Senate Finance Committee bill is online somewhere, that’s pretty close. (sorry, no linky).
Let’s not go all back door man this early. *g*
But, yes, you and I seem to be nibbling on the same side of Bob’s luncheon cracker. (smart and similar minds?
Yeeeeaaaaah!
I’m sick of voting for democrats who turn into republicans, poof, just like that, on the day they’re sworn into office.
Spin baby, spin. In 2012 we will be informed that Barack Obama is a greater populist than Jesus Christ. If he is reelected, we will discover in 2013 that he is still just a corporate shill.
Maybe Obama can run as a republican along with Joe. Obama-Lieberman 2012? We know how well they work together.
What good can a call do?
For members of the House, remind them that you are one of potentially 175,000 dirty unwashed ignorant voters who can turn them out of office.
For members of the Senate, remind them that you are one of potentially (look up the majority needed to win in your state) dirty unwashed ignorant voters who can turn them out of office.
If nothing else, you can make them dance around an issue.
Fair assessment, so are we going to be caught with shorts down, or are we going to begin manufacturing a mind blowing ‘correction’ now.?
I called and informed the party yesterday I was changing my registration from D to I. It was, sadly, gratifying.
No, you need to vote with your wallets RIGHT NOW.
Not only can you help with donations for targeted projects at sites like Firedoglake, but you need to help your local progressive candidates.
It takes 4 to 12 years to bring candidates up through the field from lowest level to state level, and they need money to run that first race beginning on January 1, 2010.
Find out who are the most progressive candidates in your city/county/state and make a donation. If you can’t make donations, see if you can phonebank for fundraising or help with other campaign duties like dropping literature. These are the people who’ll be running in 2016 at federal level; you absolutely must help them run for local level RIGHT NOW so they have experience under their belt along with name credibility.
(Now where was that troll who said my “poetic” post last night was unwanted and I needed to stick to calls to action?…)
Greg you are what is wrong with America. I can’t believe you are that stupid. First-grade information!
[Mod Note; let's debate the issue without the insults. Thanks.}
Whatever in him that is not allowing him to, must be pretty strong. He’s too tied up, so he can’t.
Considering we all have control and responsibilty issues, we all Could Do The Right thing.
I hear what you’re saying, tho, I bet you will hear me too.
what do you mean blind devotion ?!?! :D
The Great Pretender is going to have to spin like an out of control top to win reelection but then the corporate media, now knowing he’s one of them, will help facilitate the scam.
Ugh. There you go, thinking they are playing some kind of Kung Fu Master game and planned the good outcome from day one.
Nope. Occam’s Razor: it is what it is on its face. The bastards, from Obama down to the criminals in the Senate (and House) are working to get a corporatist bill passed. It is fascism through and through (and NO that is not hyperbole!).
Fascism is government and corporations in tight marriage for the benefit of the few in power. What else is it but fascism when the government is DEEP in bed with corporations, forcing BY LAW, profits for insurance companies and big pharma? Hell, they intend to punish any peon who fails to give money to corporate CEOs! Fascism has a face and it is Obama’s, Reid’s, Dodd’s, Kerry’s, etc, etc, etc.
I WISH it were socialism. At least the “little people” would make out better than they do in fascism. This is the Shock Doctrine end game folks. The United States Incorporated.
Ah yes, the seal of approval.
He’s insaciably addicted to fucking the common man round the clock. He lives to please his masters.
wuvs me some ratty. pats to Bob
I called my Senator today and asked to have the individual mandate killed; the other Senator is a Republican, interested in killing any bill.
Go read Alice’s Restaurant. Then call your Senators. And pass it on through your personal network. That’s how movements get created.
I think I understand the Lieberman mentality. He doesn’t really want anything other than power, attention, and pleasing his lobbies. When his latest demands are met, he will turn around and make more demands. Negotiating with him is foolish, and it’s as unprincipled as he is.
The bad stuff doesn’t kick in until 2014, after he is safely re-elected.
In the meantime he gets boat loads of campaign contributions.
was impressed with Dr Dean’s show of real live integrity – he is blowing off tons of lobbyist lucre in taking this stand
I resigned my position as Democratic Precinct chairman.
(((cbl2)))
FYI though, any hand extended to Bob minus a treat will be retracted a little bit lighter. “g”
Good idea. One of the Dem fundraising organizations called me last night with their spiel and money pitch, and I told the DLCC caller last night how furious I am about the Dems’ refusal to fight for health care reform and I won’t give another dime to them till I see verifiable progress in HCR, gay rights, and other issues that Mr. Hope claimed he’d push.
Here’s an essay by Thom Hartman worth taking a look at.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/16-3
Howard Dean in 2012.
Anthony Weiner in 2012.
Would rather pour energy and time into American Green Party or a genuine American Labor Party.
Short of that these two guys in current D Party are front runners.
Dennis Kucinich going in as SoD. Russ Feingold going in as SoS.
The current D Party leadership in Congress needs to be rotated out to be sure and the Blue Dogs pushed out on a one for one exchange rate for genuine Ds.
The corporatists and militarists need to be IDed as the real deep threat to American democracy that they are and sidelined. Sooner the better for the common American.
These are long goals that will run out through 2020. A ten year run.
“All Sold Out.” – The Rolling Stones, 1966.
“Play it again, Sam.” – Casablanca, 1942.
This is what I wrote on the card from Moveon.org:
go on and suet ’til your satisfied
We know that Rahm tried to take credit for Dean’s success as DNC chair. We know that Dean was frozen out of the administration despite his success and his open willingness to serve. The writing on the wall is now impossible to mis-read. We progressives can expect nothing but continued disrespect from this administration and need to act accordingly.
Obama lost me quite some time ago. He could win me back by becoming a sincere advocate for the common good but I’m not holding my breath.
Afternoon, time for me to sneeze the day. Have a good un, demi. :-)
Nice comment thread on that Politico piece. What an impressive online readership they have.
a few gene pools missing their life guard
What a nice fellow.
Bravo. Did you inform them why in no uncertain terms?
I have these fantasies…
One I have at the moment is going to a “town hall meeting” with Obama. I’d wear a few bits of military clothing to show that I’m a veteran (difficult for them to weed me out as a veteran…it can make for bad publicity). I’d then stand up to ask a question thus: “Mr President, did you sell out to corporations early on as a senator or did you sell yourself to them when you became President? You, sir, are an asshole.”
This takes place on live TV. I would be an instant hero to the people I don’t want to be a hero to (the Tea Baggers and GOPers) but hell, I’d also feel good deep inside myself. THAT’S what matters.
Dr. Dean came to Ohio to talk to our then Congressman Strickland to run for Governor. Dean indeed promoted the 50 state winning strategy. Sounds like Rahm had a play in the strategy. Have read about Rahms hatred or whatever it is of Dr. Dean. But exactly what was it that created this kerfuffle
I’m not going to do that, because in my current position as precinct chair I can do a couple of things:
– I can persuade Dems in my precinct to vote for more progressive candidates, and I have the weight of being an elected official behind me in that capacity;
– I can vote at state party events for more progressive issues and candidates, which becomes even more important as Dems drop out because of disillusionment.
I’ll give you an example: there was a recent statewide quarterly meeting of the state party. I was the ONLY attendee from my entire congressional district to attend. Therefore I had all the power and authority of my entire district for that meeting.
The previous quarterly meeting I was one of four people from the entire district.
You make sure your progressive peeps in other districts show up regularly and you can remake the state party in short order. Not only that, but the candidates who attend these events notice.
And leopards will change spots.
Obama absolutely CANNOT win me back. Hell, he never really had me. He was the last available option so I did the STUPID thing and voted lessor evil. Never again.
Obama CANNOT win me back. Tiger’s don’t change their stripes. He is exactly what he appears to be, through and through. I feel sorry for his kids. They are going to be reared to be GOPers in all but name. Corporatists, fascists. That is their future.
“The tiger can’t change his spots. No, wait, he did! Good for him!”
-Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
They are a much greater threat than say, organized crime ever was, and organized crime was a serious threat once. The founders and many of the more perceptive presidents have been warning us about the likelihood that a capitalism/milltary pwer base could rob us of our country and our citizenship and its happening. Not whith a bang but with a whimper.
My thoughts exactly–time for a new acronym, FTWH. They’re F’ing us. Cn you believe that obama gave himself a B+ so far, and “once ‘I’ get the health care bill passed, a good solid A-”?????WTF indeed. Has “he” actually been around for any of this?? Seriously, fuck them and the fucking horse they rode in on. Where the fuck do they get off badmouthing Howard Dean, who should have had the job at HHS….but then lots of capable people “should have” and they’re out on the streets. They even castrated Hillary. Damn.
Lieberman has upped the ante here. Although congressional Progressives may have much to lose by either killing healthcare reform and then being scapegoated for its failure or bowing to the corpodems, they have NOTHING to lose by dragging out these negotiations into next year. Obama is the one that desparately needs some token bill on his desk by Jan.21st. The white house has shown reckless disregard for the democratic base, so I see no moral or political need to cover him here. Do not kill the bill, just threaten to kill it and drag it on and on and on, and a) progressives will get some significant concessions (Franken amd., antitrust, medicaid/medicare expansion or even just substantive financial reform), b)a real health care bill through reconciliation or c)the same flimsy washout bill we have now, only Corporate Dem’s and Obama will have lost major political capital on the way, and will not be able to win a spin war claiming ‘historic’ reform on the backs of liberals. This is not a great strategy, but compared with immediate capitulation to Obama, or immediate death of the bill, it has significant upsides. Obama wants the democratic base to roll over, NOW is the time to stand and play hard savvy ball, not capitulate or simply cut off our noses to spite our faces. The game is not over here. Obama needs this bill more than liberals do, so lets play our chips.
what a douchebag
If I had to bet which was gonna change first, I’ll put $10 on the leopards.
Yep, we actually have a one-party system with two names.
No yu had your first chance in 92 when you could have derailed the Clintons and the DLC which is the precursor of this. Outrage at Dodd but no outrage at Schumer or the average annual income of the Congress or the ineptness, lack of vision and courage. The problem of who serves in Congress is festering and it is not Obama’s fault. The democratic party in Congress is a product of the Clintons style of Wall Street promotion and greed.
Oh the irony!!!
“He lives to please his masters.”
I HATE that word “kerfuffle” rush limbaugh used it in a press release and next thing you know it was all over corporate “news” media (sell)copy like a rash. Its a word i hadnt heard used in 35 or 40 years before that.
Well, there is this.
Well, you DO have to give great credence to Jack Handy. That man knows his shit.
what was the jack handy bit about shoving someone down the stairs?? i read that once hanging up in a contruction trailer and it was really funny. cant find it now tho.
Oh my, I hope that doesn’t end badly. The piglet who joins the Freemasons might come out okay.
GlennG has the rundown about how this bill IS what ObamaRahma wanted. which is what Jane said.
And Sanders amendment for single payer is being read on the floor by the Repubs to ‘slow things down’; we’ll see how many vote for his amendment. Like I wrote last night,cal Senator Sanders office and urge him to vote against the Senate bill; that will deprive them of the 60 votes Reid and ObamaRahma insist on.
Whoever thinks that electing better dems. will make for change, should. imo, think again.
Obama is positioned in that perfect place from which he can legitimize and legalize, effectively crowning Fascism as Americas new found State ‘religion’. Whover of the democrats balks, the Republicans will find a way to fill that spot – no problemo.
The current Obama administration is pursuing Republican (Grover Norquist) prescriptions for the American dream!
Wake the fuck up!
David Dayen has a fresh cross-post up: “Jeff Merkley To Vote Against Bernanke Confirmation”
Very cute. Wonder if she will teach them to hunt?
This one?
Be Here Now. I can’t change what happened one nanosecond ago, much less the 1980s or 90s. We have a neoliberal Congress. I can work to change that and that’s what I intend to do.
As it becomes even clearer that Obama and the rest of the Democratic leadership are throwing away any semblance of a proper medical insurance reform, the question of what to do next comes up. Which of the pretend liberals generally claiming to be Democrats are concerned with anything besides their lobbyist bribes? Examples of who cannot be trusted like Dodd and Frank, who are completely in the pocket of big finance, abound. Self-made millionaires, which is to say people that had very little money before entering politics, control both parties. Probably all of us continue to receive a barrage of emails claiming that donating now will fix the next problem the next time. So far what seems apparent, on a strictly personal level, is that nearly every dollar I have donated in the past two years has been either misused or wasted. When organizations like Democracy for America first want money to support Obama’s so-called health reform and belatedly recognize that they now have to posture against the dregs that are left where do things stand?
Instead of Democrats defending change we have the same insiders that supported laws that broke the financial system, like McCain, posturing to fix it. (McCain! Give me a freakin’ break.) So we have Democrats defending the indefensible status quo. It seems as though we all have gone through the looking glass. The story feels like a poorly-written, made for TV movie. One where you shout at the screen “people just aren’t the unethical”, “they’re not that stupid” with each new bizarre revelation.
Perhaps the real goal of these ping-ping gyrations is simply to demoralize those without infinitely deep pockets. Since the affluent pay for results that bring them significant profit, unlike those that want to see good works done, they would get even better returns if the great unwashed didn’t even attempt to turn the tide.
What seems abundantly clear is that giving money to the corrupt in hopes of paying them to become ethical may not actually work very well. A government that requires bribes to function will only work for the wealthy.
My thought exactly. At what point will mama decide they’re lunch?
Surtt December 16th, 2009 at 10:11 am
110
In response to roxsteady @ 82 (show text)
The bad stuff doesn’t kick in until 2014, after he is safely re-elected.
In the meantime he gets boat loads of campaign contributions.
Not when the republican media machine starts with the commercials about the mandate and how it forces the avg joe to buy overpried insurance without a public option, I see Obama losing as big as he won on that alone.
I think the following Deep Thought by Jack Handey might just contain a metaphor for the Senate HCR process.
Papa Obama has a talk with his daughter Malia about health care.
Malia:
Daddy, I’ve been reading about health care on the web. How do we get ours?
Papa:
Well, Honey, the government taxes the people. And because Daddy works for the government we get our health care paid for by them.
Malia:
Does it work for everyone like that?
Papa:
Well, uh, we’re working on it.
Malia:
And I read in school how, in America, over eight million kids like me don’t even have health care. How come?
Papa:
Oh, that’s because of the evil Republicans, Honey. Remember when we invited Mr. Lieberman for dinner the other night and he explained all about them? But we are going to change all that…
Malia:
When?
Papa:
Well, someday for sure.
I searched and I can’t find anything related to stairs at all except two that just don’t do the trick (but are funny):
I’ll never forget the time Grandma tripped at the top of the stairs and fell all the way down and then rolled and hit her head against the front door. We all laughed and laughed until we realized, Hey, she’s not joking!
When you’re going up the stairs and you take a step, kick the other leg up high behind you to keep people from following too close.
I was hoping for something…fitting.
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.”
Here’s Driftglass, and NOBODY does it better:
http://driftglass.blogspot.com/2009/12/lets-go-over-it-one-more-time.html
:o)
Wow. Howard Dean gets called out. And Liberman gets coddled. Nice to see where Obama’s priorities are. I’m pissed off about being forced to buy junk insurance, too. It seems like a dream for insurance companies, funny how what they want will stay in the bill and 80% of what they dont want, will get gutted by bought and paid for senators. And you’re just twiddling your thumbs on the sidelines, 100% aware of what is happening and saying nothing… its obvious, you dont want my vote, and you think that we’re stuck with you.
And you’re right. And I have no idea what to do about it. Wow, politics suck. I think I’ll just stop caring and go on with my life. Congrats washington heres one less person paying attention to what you’re doing. I’m done.
Lot of speculation that whatever bill comes back from the CBO will pass and that some shitty bill will reach Obama’s desk. Awful lot of ground to cover between the CBO to the Oval Office, or in this case, the lobby of the Aetna building. I hope those who want to throw Obama out in 12 put some of that energy into getting a real progressive elected to Congress, Rep or Sen, from their district/state next year.
hey you know what would REALLY irritate the white house? if we can use the whip project to get the manadate out of the bill. it shouldnt be so hard to do, no one wants the government to force them to pay for anything in america , right? right wingnuts? wheres the outrage wing nuts?
I believe that a populist pushback would set the minimum bar at the level of Senatorial Health Insurance.
This is so clear cut of a contrast, such clear example of hypocrisy that not taking that approach (direction) seems criminaly negligent.
That was his plan, I didn’t say it would work.
Here are the 11 Senators who have received over one million dollars from the insurance industry:
McCain, John (R-AZ) $2,919,753
Obama, Barack (D) $2,492,352
Dodd, Chris (D-CT) $2,292,096
Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) $1,894,715
Kerry, John (D-MA) $1,396,617
Santorum, Rick (R-PA) $1,267,850
Nelson, Ben (D-NE) $1,258,299
Baucus, Max (D-MT) $1,191,163
Schumer, Charles E (D-NY) $1,130,500
Specter, Arlen (D-PA) $1,066,755
Lieberman, Joe (I-CT) $1,037,652
Please note for the record:
Only two of them are currently Republicans. Or three if you count Lieberman.
We need a Tea Party of the Left now to awake these bastards up to reality on the ground.
HAH. I’m in the pit of red state hell. I’m not even going to waste a penny trying to get a “progressive” into a seat here.
So instead I will do what I can to defeat Obama and related members of his species.
Go on with your life? Your life is 100% effected the minute you wake up everyday. All these Corp owned Dems and Republicans got their start someplace and because nobody largely pays attention to local politics but maybe who’s Mayor idiots like Sarah Palin hit the national stage.
So you can’t give up on Politics, it constantly comes up.
What the WH hopes is that the people that don’t watch the Cable News Channels will open the news paper or watch their local news one day soon to find “Major Health Care Reform Passes” and then get to read the small print to find out, its full of triggers and delays and it only covers 30 million people (I thought it was 45 million without Health Care Insurance?).
Secondly, Dems think they are safe especially in Blue States. But that isn’t the case because we are the one paying attention to this nonsense.
Who knows what will happen in mid-terms, the country is largely not presented with “choices” funny how that works….
“At the end of the day, [
the moderatesRepublicans] are holding sway over this bill, but at the end of the day the President’s been able to hold them in line and they think progressives will be with them.”Edited for fact. It’s telling I think that Republicans and DINO’s are so frequently referred to as “moderates” when they should be referred to as bought-and-paid-for, fascist, corporate slugs or more succinctly: fucking monsters.
Damn. Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster so much of the Liberal blogosphere wasn’t around in FDR’s, JFK’s, or LBJ’s times. We probably wouldn’t have Social Security or Medicare now, among many other things:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/12/16/812094/-You-Dont-Have-The-Stomach-For-Politics
Incrementalism coupled with movement activism is key. True for every major advancement over the centuries, including the writing of the Declaration of Independence. Again, advance then organized movement. Exactly what’s been happening since Obama has been in office on so many issues. I feel nothing but excitement for what comes next. Onward and upward. We have structures in place now that we never had before to organize around issues. It’s crucial that these mechanisms are applied efficiently and with laser focus.
I wonder if the impatience and anger among “Liberals” toward Obama, which started LONG before he was in office at many of the blogs, would’ve happened toward FDR and LBJ for instance, as they both spent years of incrementalism getting their signature issues through, and compromising and wooing detractors all along the way.
‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’
Maybe if there was a greater focus placed on actions to resolve the present mess we are in then we might improve our present lot.
There is a troubling undertone of endless hashing and rehashing of how the government is progressively worse at every turn. Yes we all agree that to be the case, let’s not beat a dead horse into oblivion.
Let’s instead also make an attempt at finding solutions through means other than petitioning the government. We just all agreed that the government at the highest level is irretrievably broken. It’s time to abandon government as an option.
We must take other collective measures, much like strikers who are getting nowhere with management. We should look at options like collective refusal to pay premiums among those that are able to do so, or to transfer funds out of large firms into smalller banks, or to act on intiatives to recall elected officials.
We need to change our focus from two pointless exercises. One, endless rehashing of the faulty laws the government produces, and two, the unwillingness to abandon government and turn to public collective action as the way to proceed.
No one denies the value of being kept abreast of what we are faced with from the government. But we must realize that all good things are not derived from efforts to influence government. We should look at collective public measures we can take which bypass government, as the course over which we have direct control and should take.
It is this public collective effort that has not been adequately explored.
*G*
Hadn’t seen that one yet . . .
You have a good point about incrementalism. I’m with you on that.
My problem with O is that he could quite easily get a bigger, better bill that moves toward a low-cost, universal system. Perplexingly, O is not interested in anything beyond milquetoast insurance reform.
What has emerged from the Senate (and WH) so far does not seem to make any move toward universality or publicly run healthcare. There lies my problem with the plan.
Actually, when they repealed Glass-Steagall they changed that. It now reads:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all wealthy, white, anglo-saxon and mostly Protestant men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and exclusive access to the bankers on Wall Street. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among said men, deriving their, uh, just powers from the consent of the Bilderberg Group. That whenever any other form of government [like democracy] becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of said men to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new crony capitalist government, laying its foundation on such principles as the accummulation wealth and power and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their own exclusive understanding of what constitutes justice and happiness for…them.”
What about Nate Silver?
“Why progressives are bat shit crazy to oppose health care bill.”
LBJ was a pig.
Got the same e-mail from OFA.
Wrote them a nasty “reason” for my unsubscription [but actually used an old e-mail address, so I'll continue to get mailings and can continue to "reply" and be aware of what they're up to].
Called both Hawaii senators using the numbers OFA had so thoughtfully provided.
Surprise!!! The “person dealing with health care issues” whom I requested was “away from his desk” [snerk].
I registered the opposition of our family of FOUR Democratic voters to the Senate bill.
Akaka’s office was extremely rude and hung up on me.
Give up on Obama. He has already accomplished the most historically significant act of his presidency: namely, being elected the first black president. He is now (already) thinking of his legacy, and will do nothing to tarnish that legacy, especially health care reform.
He may, but did you see how classy he was on KO last night when asked about [invited to slam] Lieberman? He basically said Lieberman was an attention suck [phrased it more nicely, though] and that it wasn’t worth wasting time talking about him.
Your anylitical problem is that Obama is a polar opposite of FDR, or LBJ. When you dial that factoid into your argument; it collapses.
Obama needs to get his priorities straight. Does he have any recollection of the platform/promises he campaigned on? It seems he has no intention of honoring any of them. The way he and the Dems in the Senate are going, 2010 and 2012 won’t just be bad; they will be a massacre. Frankly, I will be one of the base leading the charge AGAINST the Dems who didn’t support the platform. They have clearly forgotten who they represent.
That poor staffer probably wandered off to have a little drinky. S/he’s gotta make it through the day!
I love when you libs fight among each other. But why do you want to push single payer or goverment option down our throats. The polls, all of them, indicate that Americans do not want obama care. So do you believe in democracy? Why is it so important to you? And the same for Cap and Trade. Does it matter that it will cost thousands of jobs? What is wrong with you people???
If Obama were ever truly serious in getting a good HCR bill, he would have brought the Governor in at the outset.
This is Rahms doing. But then Obama hand picked Rahm too, didn’t he?
But the American people don’t want publicly run healthcare. So you can be a minority and wish for what you can’t have. You can whine about not getting what you want. But that is the reality. You aren’t going to get government health care because the people don’t want it. Get over it.
This news may also irritate them.
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/72537-union-pulls-back-on-supporting-senate-bill
Hey mods, how long are my comments going to be “awaiting moderator approval”? I have a feeling it will be forever. I guess you liberals don’t want anyone here who isn’t a liberal. So what happened to freedom of speech??
I keep repeating the Lesson Learned from Motherhood as a reflection on Lieberman and the Dems’ “negotiating” with him:
When “a” child [not your child, of course] has a temper tantrum in the grocery store because you won’t buy him a candy bar at check-out, you don’t give in to this. If you do, you can be sure that NEXT time a)there will be another tantrum; and b) it will be even bigger if you show any sign of refusing.
By your own actions, you teach your child how to treat you — by demonstrating just how much you’ll tolerate, what you’ll give in to.
I used to be a staffer. I was very direct, explaining “4 voters, our zip code, etc.”
When I said we were “violently” opposed to the Senate bill, she said “what do you mean by THAT???” like I was rushing over to bomb the building.
I replied, “oh, please. Substitute the word ‘very’. ”
I hope her bad humor indicates lots of negative calls received, but I doubt it. Hawaii is not all that enlightened.
this rolling over framework implies that they were once right side up.
when were they right side up, vis-a-vis powerful, ruthless lobbies? 1980? 1970? good ol’ LBJ? FDR?
like bemoaning lack of “spines”, the framework is obsolete.
Whether the Donkey is right side up, vertebrate or invertebrate, matters not. It works for a corporate, elite sector, feisty foreign client states, the MIC, not for regular americans in any way shape or form.
they need your passivity and your votes in even numbered years, and it is long past time to start witholding these and trying out new political and social formations.
It was. But, even more it was due to the complexity of Clinton care that no one understood, just as the failure this time was due the PO and the fact that there were so many versions of it that no one knew what that meant. The big advantage of Medicare for All, is that everyone knows what it means. They even know that it’s not socialized medicine. Maybe next time we’ll learn the right lesson and push for the simple and most effective solution to our healh insurance problems.
The Declaration of Independence was an incremental step?
The world has changed since Social Security and Medicare was passed.
45 years ago insurance and finance were a small part of our economy, they did not rule it.
I doubt the same approach would work now.
If we can not get it now with democratic controlled everything, how will we get it in the future? The the insurance companies will be awash with money, will they just stand aside and not oppose just as hard next time? Because it will be a long time before we are as strong as we are now.
What make you think that the opposite will not be true; the minute it is passed, it will be chipped away at. They are now attacking overwhelmingly popular programs as Social Security and Medicare, why would they not try to tear down HCR?
Not sure about what you meant. What do you mean “that’s what we do here”? What is “that” and what is “here”? If you meant calling Senators is what we do in America, then I still ask, what do you think it’ll do? Do you think people with healthcare horror stories don’t call their senators? What about people who can’t afford their medications? Do you think they don’t call their senators? How come then 30 dems vote against Dorgan’s drug re-importation bill.
And totally clueless regarding your self-gratifying advise for a newbie. Just what are you saying?
Suggesting that Roosevelt was a protector of the way things were or a man with a limited agenda, as appears to be the case with Obama, is a significant misreading of history. I hoped for another Roosevelt but it appears that only another Hoover was available.
Spine is not a function of incrementalism and useless compromise where no conflict exists but of fighting and then fighting some more when the odds seem overwhelming.
The spine problem, for Democrats is not in fearing compromises but in failing to standup and provide what they promised. Clinton was a great compromiser, far too good, but Bush got significantly more of his political agenda accomplished. The fact that everything Bush did was unacceptable does not change the fact that at no time did Bush compromise with Democrats to get things done. Bush worked from his base. Obama on the other hand appears incapable of doing anything that would disappoint the lobbyists that run Washington.
Pretending that incrementalism that has accomplished nothing is something new and good is exactly what the corporations that control so much of our government want. If everything that the insurance companies want is kept in and nothing that was promised is included that is not incrementalism it is capitulation.
Yeah, people don’t want Social Security or Medicare either, not to mention roads, bridges, electricity or flush toilets…
Ooops. Just fed the troll instead of SCROLL.
So lets decide what the people need and push it down their throats. Sounds like a tyrant. I think I heard Stalin say something like that.
You beat me to it:
Declaration of Independence was incrementalist? Wow, new things to learn every day.
As you say, Obama is pissing away what could have been one of the greatest opportunities for progressive advance in the history of the US.
–Financial crisis arising from financial sector running amok.
–Health care crisis arising from insurance industry running amok.
–Two ill advised hot wars.
–Civil liberties thrown out the window.
–Criminal politicization of the Department of Justice.
–A president elected on slogan of Change we can believe in.
People were *pissed* and the right wing had been largely discredited.
What do we get? Bailouts for corporations most responsible for their respective crises, the middle finger for everyone else. Defense for criminals in prior regime. Closure of Gitmo but no real change to the underlying rationale. Promise of withdrawal from one war but escalation of the other.
Boy is that right, Obama isn’t living up to any of his promises. Where are the gays in the military? Where is gay marriage? Where is our single payer health care? No where! This bill must be stopped until it is right, forget our war monger president, he is just like Bush!
what Sparkatus said
Not voting isn’t an option, because then the White House will justifying further to the (corporate sellout) center.
What needs to take place are primary challenges of every incumbent (except Kunich who stood by his pledge not to vote for something weaker than a robust public option). If those challenges fail, we need to support progressive third parties.
Granted, the MSM is going to lie about it, but if the stats demonstrate that Greens are taking over, or progressives are beating the annointed one, it might get out.
Remember, your vote in an off-Presidential-year, congressional primary has more power than any other national election vote.
No, that was Bush and Cheney you heard.
Frack. Did it again. Sorry all.
Your right-wing whining sounds so silly. See, right-wing websites block liberal ideas and visitors. Liberal sites don’t do that. UGH, COGNITIVE DISSONANCE — MUST HATE LIBERALS — MUST HATE LIBERALS…
You’re right, I distinctly remember Bush noting when polls showed that the American people disagreed with him and responding by immediately changing his position! That’s why we didn’t invade Iraq! Oh, no, wait a second… when Republicans were in charge, suddenly, polls were irrelevant, because the “liberal media” had brainwashed people into being confused, so Bush HAD to ignore public opinion, don’t you see?
Besides, depending on how you ask the question, people *are* in favor of government playing a role. Or didn’t you know that many people design poll questions so that they get the answer they already wanted? Look up “Frank Luntz”; you might learn something.
“I love when you libs fight among each other”.
Of course you do. Right-wing authoritarians are psychotic tribalist cult members who hate anyone who isn’t part of their little in-group. Thank you for admitting that your heart is filled with hatred.
Yes, the Declaration of Independence took years of work leading up to it.
Yes, dynamics change over the course of history. Got it.
Something that’s pretty consistent over history however is human behavior. So many advances over history have taken years, decades, and generations to accomplish. So many “Liberals” bailed on Obama and much of what the Dems are trying to before Obama was even in office fer chissakes. These people in my opinion do not seem to have a historical perspective on what it takes to get things like this done, and that’s why I brought up some other examples in history where it took quite a while but did eventually happen.
Things are not “democratically controlled” right now. Over the last couple of decades, the DemocratIC Party has been carefully taken over by BigMoney candidates to prevent any actual Liberal reform from ever happening. Isn’t this exactly what’s playing out before our eyes with the Ben Nelsons, Blanche Lincolns, Mary Launders, etc as they’ve often broken ranks with our DemocratIC President? This was the whole reason for being for groups like the DLC and the like. We exposed and kicked out J. Low Lieberme, and I’d suggest we continue with this work.
Again, with human behavior being so predictable, your last point is a concern I have also. Yes, they will chip away at whatever they end up passing, no matter how watered-down it ends up being. We know this.
That’s why it is so important to organize around single-payer and a few other issues. Focus. Preventing the “chipping away” will be one thing we need to do, but also take the ball and use it to build momentum to another step closer to single-payer, and then another after that. Incrementalism. How it’s always happened.
This is why I keep making this case, since it will require maximum involvement and enthusiasm from Liberals to get it done, and that’s why I worry and have been frustrated by the defeatist attitude that has seemed to dominate a lot of Liberal circles for quite some time now. It’s not helping.
When it took a couple of YEARS for Roosevelt or LBJ to start getting some things through, if y’all were around back then, would you be carrying on about how much a sell-out each was as they compromised with Repubs and watered down the original proposals in almost every case? We did eventually end up with Social Security and Medicare and others, and FDR and LBJ both had a much greater Dem majority in Congress.
How about all the questionable actions of JFK before and during his Presidency? A quick scan of his wiki page might provide a few big surprises for most.
Thing is…I’m understanding of a lot of this stuff. I’m on the Board of two small nonprofits and it’s incredibly difficult to change the status quo when there’s entrenched interests even at such miniscule levels. Can’t imagine what Obama’s dealing with.
The point is that Liberals should and need to stay motivated to tackle future battles. We had incredible momentum these last couple of years and should be building upon it, not “chipping away” at it. There have been many, many positive changes that have happened so far with Obama and he’s saying he’s just getting warmed up after seemingly preventing the next Great Depression, so I’m still trusting him. Been disturbed by some things but overall a net positive so far.
I was not a Bush fan, but he was better than what we have now. I am an independent, you know….those people who used to like nobama. The people who are going to vote out the liberals. The people who believed nobama when he said he was a centrist.
joefleetfoot @ 75 is right, Praedor:
Conference reports can be filibustered in the Senate.
Which means that if a cloture motion is filed – whether or not an actual filibuster ever manifests – 60 votes will indeed be ‘needed’ to close debate and proceed to a simple-majority up or down vote on final passage.
Just this past weekend – Saturday morning – the Senate voted on a cloture motion filed by Harry Reid Thursday on the conference report for the half-trillion in FY 2010 federal spending contained in six “consolidated” appropriations bills.
I elaborated on the power-broking conference committee “process” in a comment last night (can’t link it or post the URL here at the moment without getting a ‘database error’) – it’s Comment #171 in Jane’s FDLAction ‘Kill the Senate Bill’ thread.
I understand what you are saying…
But you are not going to win a war of attrition with the health insurance companies.
They will be fighting for their lives and our government no longer cares about long term goals.
And why is anyone surprised they are angry at Dean and not Lieberman. They want him to tow the party and sell us this load of horseshit as real reform and good for the people, yeah right! Afterall, they did send Rahm Emanuel to tell Harry Reid to cave to Lieberman. I’ve said this for months and before the election and now I sadly am proven right. Progressives and liberals bought the shiny new ornament and now they are once again betrayed. I said progressives and liberals would wake up at the end of Obama’s 4 years and not a damned thing would’ve changed and they would be asking why. Well it took less than a year to prove me right. If there is any so-called progressive or liberal out there buying the line from Obama this is the best we could do, remember it was the Democratic party that screwed you. I am a former democrat as of 1 month ago, so I am angry too. But remeber they had the votes to pass real reform and CHOSE not to do so. This is not the best that could be done. Obama not one time fought for real health care reform. Read Glenn Greenwald’s column to day at commondreams and you will see he never wanted the public option or any real reform, so he could ensure the Democrats continue with the largess of big corporations for campaign funding. Well we are the suckers who bought his lies and we have no one to blame but ourselves. The only thing worse than this version of the democratic party is the republican party. As bad as it is with Obama, having a republican in the white house would be 10 times worse. So question is, what the hell do we do now!
many positive changes that have happened so far with Obama and he’s saying he’s just getting warmed up after seemingly preventing the next Great Depression,
Thank you bonkers for the humor today. I hope you are not serious How exactly did Obama prevent the next depression? By passing a stilly stimulus bill loaded with pork and not even 15% spent yet? By giving Hilarys friend $6 million to save 3 jobs? You probably don’t know anything about that as your media would not cover it.
Yes, lots of debate for years built up to eventual decision to write the Declaration. The main writer himself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence
Yes, alot of those things you mention, which have dominated threads here and elsewhere for a year or two now, piss me off too. Thanks for saying that common refrain which is made here about 300 times per day (I don’t think that’s an exaggeration), since it brings up another point that plays into my opinion about staying motivated. This overwhelming focus on the negatives, with almost COMPLETE ignoring of the incredible positive movement on so many issues, is also not helping.
Before anyone wastes time on the “blind allegiance” argument in response, it’s not that at all. It’s about balance. Yin-yang. Many positives so far, good talk at least on getting to some of those other big problems, and understanding with a historical perspective, that around 2 years is a much better guage than minus-6 months before writing off a President. Our work is just beginning, so it’s time to fire up and get organized. Anyone down with getting single-payer healthcare?
mainstream media pundits are goddamned traitors! they are the ugly mouth of an ugly process.
just listen to the tone of that ‘reporter’ savannah guthrie! everything she says is loaded with concessions to the white house and this current bill.
i am sooooooo sick of the these people presenting themselves as neutral on an issue when it’s so. abundantly. clear. that they have an agenda! that they are just spokespeople for the big corporate-government partnership.
no one should even dignify what any of these ‘reporters’ have to say. it should be common knowledge that they are a direct feed of this traitorous movement.
thank god that there are blogs like this to inject some sanity into the debate. the msm is such a snide, backstabbing enterprise.
when the people come to power these people should be put on trial and deported.
Oh hey, you’re back! Don’t you have a lot of hard work to do since you make such good money no doubt? You are the backbone of our economy I’m sure.
You asked a lot of questions that I can’t attempt to answer right now, since I have to get down to the office before they close and pick up my welfare check. Plus, my caddy is acting up and not sure it’ll make it. After I cash the check, I’ll then have to stop and get some bon-bons. You like bon-bons? They’re yummy.
Plus, those are such thoughtful questions, that it sounds like a lot of work to answer them. Being Liberal as I am, I don’t like work, so toodle-oo!
Hi bonkers. Yes, avoid the questions.
Let me guess. You are just out of college, wear a pony tail, hate corporations, and want to be a community organizer. You want to grow up and drive a Prius. You love Al Gore and actually believe that mankind causes global warming. You are a vegetarian and live in San Francisco.
Me? I used to be a backbone of our economy but since we don’t have an economy anymore…. I work for a government contracting firm supplying services to the us government including DOD. I’m sure you will have a lot to say about that. I’m sure you hate the military. Without the military, you would be speaking deutsche. Verstehen sie nicht?
Of course you hate Bush and every single Republican (I am an Independent). You don’t think there are terrorists out there plotting to destroy us. You have totally forgotten about 9/11 or maybe you think its an inside job. Bush did it!! You know what is best for mankind and you would love to shove some bills down american’s throats such as obama care and cap and trade. But its for their own good. You have [edited by mod].
You’re not the “backbone of the economy” if you’re working on government contracts, you are — by definition — working on “government pork.”
Here is my two cents worth:
I am sorely disappointed in your support of Joe Lieberman’s health care bill. It is clear to me that you never wanted what you promised on the campaign trail. Americans are now going to be forced to buy insurance from private companies who only have their profits as their goal. How can people be expected to do this when their hard earned income is going to support CEO’s and stockholders? You and Mr. Emmanuel should be ashamed. I am sure you are not. I will work to unseat you in the next election just as I worked in the previous election for you.
Hot damn! They let me get argula now with my food stamps. There’s a party over here….in my yurt.
By the way, what do you have against Senator Jack Reed anyway? He’s a vet and one of dem middle-of-roaders, so I thought you’d like him. Pity.
I found every senator I could from the committee that passed this piece of YKW with an account on Twitter and asked them to help kill this bill.
I reminded them that it was a two-fer… that they could irritate Rahm, and really please their constituents.