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It’s pretty laughable that people think Lieberman is “killing” health care when he’s delivering up the Senate Finance Committee bill the White House negotiated.
Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.), among the most vocal supporters of the public option, said it would be unfair to blame Lieberman for its apparent demise. Feingold said that responsibility ultimately rests with President Barack Obama and he could have insisted on a higher standard for the legislation.
“This bill appears to be legislation that the president wanted in the first place, so I don’t think focusing it on Lieberman really hits the truth,” said Feingold.
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Does Lieberman have an Israel angle on healthcare roadblock?
http://mondoweiss.net/2009/12/does-lieberman-have-an-israel-angle-in-healthcare-roadblock.html
To satisfy Joe, a Medicare buy-in will be included in the final bill.
But only for West Bank settlers.
it’s too bad lierman was reelected to the senate – he’s been an obstacle to any reforms and has shown himself to be very vindictive… he’s not worried cuz he says he’s not going to run again.. the insurance lobby will take very great care of him …
“Next year is an election year, and Democrats are now officially in full freak out mode. Democrats in the House announced today that they won’t touch any ‘controversial’ legislation until and unless the Senate acts first. Among the list of ‘controversial’ topics are gay issues, labor issues, and Latino issues — specifically, immigration reform, the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) and the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. That pretty much sums up a good chunk of the Democratic base.” (Reference: http://www.americablog.com/2009/12/house-dems-want-to-avoid-votes-on.html)
Well Happy Holidays to all of us. Barack Obama has just sold us down the river. It hurts — really hurts — to admit it, but this Chicago hustler has taken our good hearts and played us for complete suckers. Why do I feel like Tiger Woods’ wife?
This bill is worse than the status quo; it is an abomination. (Again I cannot easily express my disgust that the teabagger crackpots who called it an “Obamanation” apparently knew something that we did not.) $1000000000s to insurance companies courtesy of this smooth talking empty suited liar from Chicago.
KILL THIS TRAVEST OF A PAYOUT TO INSURANCE COMPANIES ***NOW***
This bill is dead and along with it goes Obama’s leadership of the Party–he spent his political capital for his corporate masters and has now been exposed. Put a big lame duck over this presidency and let’s start working to get Howard Dean elected in 2012.
coffee on screen.
Someone in jest said that what Lieberman gave in on was putting an amendment in the Health Insurance profits bill that said that the U.S. would support a pre-emptive strike by Israel on Iran. That Lieberman agreed to concede on that.
what was it that Wendell Potter called this type of health care reform
““The Insurance Industry Profit Protection and Enhancement Act”.
THAT ABOUT SAYS IT ALL
“Priceless” for the settlers
“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.” – Barack Obama, 2003
http://www.alternet.org/healthwellness/139959/obama_for_single-payer_before_he_was_against_it._/
LIAR!
What has he NOT lied about? That’s what I want to know. Does he have a single truthful bone in his body? Or is he LIES all the way through?
I can see a way forward with a public option or a Medicare buy in. ( the incrementalism theory) But how do you get from what Wendell Potter called reform like this ““The Insurance Industry Profit Protection and Enhancement Act”. to anything else except more profits for private insurance companies? And way more ways for them to screw the American public
I believe he meant it when he told the Wall Street bankers that plundered our national wealth at his meeting with them yesterday that he was happy that they could take time out of their busy schedules to attend.
Oh, you were talking about campaign promises to silly progressives? Sorry, I misunderstood.
Well… Carry on then!
“I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its Gross National Product on health care cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody.”
He sees no reason? I can see the bloody frigging reason. It’s HIM!
I didn’t think it was possible for Obama to piss me off more than Bush. I was wrong.
i knew BO would have to modify some things but who knew he’d fold up so quickly? can we say 1 term prez? now’s the time to look for another candidate for ’12…. jus sayin
Howard Dean’s not good enough! How about Elizabeth Warren?
BINGO!
Now after that, if Feingold caves too I will put him in my rapidly expanding Gone Spineless column.
Why can’t we blame Obama, Lieberman, Reid, Nelson, Landrieu, Baucus, Pelosi, Stupak, and all the other Democratic turkeys who have screwed up this bill? And why can’t we now blame for Feingold for not making a public announcement that Howrd Dean is right, and that he’s not voting for this bill, or for cloture so that reid can pass it?
Make Reid use reconciliation. Even better, let’s make him use the nuclear option and get rid of the filibuster if he can.
reid has even less of a spine than BO! plus he’s afraid for his senate seat…
Add a .50 tax to every fast food order which exceeds 500 total calories. With the millions of those sold every day in America, that would help illuminate the issue, discourage the consumption a little, and toss billions of dollars into the kitty to finance health reform — saw a cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth
Again, I have now consolidated my offical reaction to health care “reform” from other FDL posts. Here is how I now see it:
Papa Obama has a talk with his daughter Malia about health care.
Malia:
Daddy, I’ve been reading about health care on the web. How do we get ours?
Papa:
Well, Honey, the government taxes the people. And because Daddy works for the government we get our health care paid for by them.
Malia:
Does it work for everyone like that?
Papa:
Well, uh, we’re working on it.
Malia:
And I read in school how, in America, over eight million kids like me don’t even have health care insurance. How come?
Papa:
Oh, that’s because of the evil Republicans and Howard Dean, Honey. Remember when we invited Mr. Lieberman for dinner the other night and he explained all about them? But we are going to change that…
Malia:
When?
Papa:
Well, someday for sure.
And please note:
There are now 11 Senators who have received over one million dollars from the insurance industry:
McCain, John (R-AZ) $2,919,753
Obama, Barack (D) $2,492,352
Dodd, Chris (D-CT) $2,292,096
Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) $1,894,715
Kerry, John (D-MA) $1,396,617
Santorum, Rick (R-PA) $1,267,850
Nelson, Ben (D-NE) $1,258,299
Baucus, Max (D-MT) $1,191,163
Schumer, Charles E (D-NY) $1,130,500
Specter, Arlen (D-PA) $1,066,755
Lieberman, Joe (I-CT) $1,037,652
Joe made the cut! He is in the same league with Obama now.
Please note for the record:
Only two of them are currently Republicans. Or three if you count Lieberman
Finally, remember this?
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness”
george:
Well, that has now been changed to:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all wealthy, white, anglo-saxon and mostly Protestant men are created equal, that they are endowed by the Fed with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and exclusive access to the bankers on Wall Street. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among said men, deriving their, uh, just powers from the consent of the Bilderberg Group. That whenever any other form of government [like democracy] becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of said men to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new crony capitalist government, laying its foundation on such principles as the accummulation of wealth and power and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their own exclusive understanding of what constitutes justice and happiness for…them.”
So basically the last 6 months was a PR stunt?
Please take a moment to see the PCCC emergency petition to Senators Russ Fiengold, Bernie Sanders, Roland Burris, and Sherrod Brown.
They asked for 50,000 signatures.
They already have over 30,000.
Let’s not stop until they have over 80,000!
Reid is going to LOSE his senate seat, and good riddance. His replacement is virtually guaranteed to be Sue Lowden, GOPer.
Reid deserves what he is getting. She polls 10 points ahead of Reid. I hope that lead doubles by the time the election comes.
Reid is toast.
My comment to CNN Political Ticker article GOP senator freezes health care debate:
Reid is milquetoast.
Fixed it.
I don’t know.
But I am curious.
From wikipedia:
Health care in Israel is both universal and compulsory, and is administered by a small number of organizations with funding from the government. All Israeli citizens are entitled to the same Uniform Benefits Package, regardless of which organization they are a member of, and treatment under this package is funded for all citizens regardless of their financial means.
george:
Any comment yet from Joe about that?
How about Obama?
That thought has crossed my mind of late. I think it’s because it was impossible to be disappointed by Bush because no matter how bad he was he was behaving exactly as expected.
While I took Obama’s campaign promises with a grain of salt I expected him to at least ATTEMPT to improve things for average Americans. Clearly in doing so I set the bar too high.
Glen Greenwald has an excellent piece on this exact subject today.
Check it out…
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/12/16/white_house/index.html
Every time I see a new plan to soak the poor to protect the poor I ask myself how this came to be.
Oppress the smokers and the overweight and the new populist movement will be made up of the chubby, smokers in league with those that promise to leave them alone. Attacking the poor and middle-class who have less than positive health habits will make the happy, healthy rich happier and wealthier.
Tax the rich not the poor. Making the poor poorer does not make them healthier, just poorer.
Seconded. One-termer? I shudder to think who’s next…not that it will make much difference by then…
OK, so how will Feingold vote on Liebercare?
And, this bill is not dead because it’s so bad for the Dems in the long run, and so good for the Corporatists and the ideology that’s been animating Republicans forevah that the Reps will find sacrificial lambs to make it pull through. It’s a fucking win win for the GOP, they’d be crazy not to go for it!
We’re screwed in that special New Obamaristocrat way.
Did I just read that they already have 65K? Signed.
Heehee. Love that word, milquetoast. A bland, limp version of feckless vanilla.
As does GlennG: “White House as helpless victim on healthcare”
And now Gibbs is calling Howard Dean ‘irrelevant’.
And Baucus is upset that his goal to keep the estate tax in place has been thwarted.
“”If we do not extend our estate tax law, all taxpayers, all heirs will be subject to massive, massive confusion in trying to determine the value of their underlying asset,” Baucus argued on the Senate floor.
The estates of about a quarter of 1 percent of Americans would be subject to the tax under the House bill, according to the Brookings Institution-Urban Institute Tax Policy Center.”
Yup, that’s Baucus, concerned about the richest quarter of one per cent of American’s
So the sainted barrack turns out to be a turd like the rest of them or, as my wonderful spouse says, bush in blackface.
I really resent the White House’s attack on Howard Dean today.
Yeah, the ‘godfather’ of the strategy that allowed them to ‘take the House’ is now “irrelevant”. The DlC is again on the march.
I agree with you.
Obama is the same person he was in IL. It’s too bad more people didn’t pay attention to his record there.
Oh goody, back to business as usual. Giving the administration more money to murder more Afghanis.
Yeah, but Dean will be baaack fireing up his base to support Obama in 2012, because he’s just a fucking Party over People, in the end, type of Democrat.
It is becoming really difficult to think of Obama and Senate Dems as the lesser of evils, they have done so little that differs from what we might expect of Republicans.
As upset as the liberals are with the WH, you would think they would not be throwing gasoline on the fire.
I was one of the lucky one that voted for Dean in the NH primary. I would happily vote for him again.
On the contrary, Obama’s part in this charade is precisely what makes him the head of the party. The Democratic Party leadership is thoroughly infected with DLC types. The DLC Democrats encompass folks like Obama, Emanuel, Ford, the Clintons and the Democratic Congressional leadership.
They are committed to the general interests of Wall Street and the terrorist industrial complex.
But within the Party there are genuine [or genuinely more] progressive members. Our job is to subtract as many of the former and add as many as the latter as we can.
But above all else: Forget the massmedia manufactured bullshit about, “the Democrats versus the Republicans, the liberals versus the conservatives.”
It is Wall Street versus Main Street. It has always been that. It always will be that.
Only with respect to most social “values voter” issues is the gap between Dems and Reps, liberals and conservatives still very, very real.
This is the thing about this healthcare debate. It is much like what is going on in the economy. The only way I have found to understand that is to assume everyone is lying and work back from that. I was writing yesterday that the WH was certainly acting strangely if Lieberman actually was doing something Obama didn’t want. He and Rahm have been trying to find a way to kill the public option for months. The minor expansion of Medicare was just a last minute feint, easily brushed off as well.
In any case, nobody was threatening Lieberman with the loss of his Chairmanship and seniority. That was the tell. Lieberman got to bask in his own vanity and put Obama in his debt. This would be really revolting, OK it is really revolting, but it would be a lot worse if I gave a shit about what the Democrats are doing or hoping that Obama would be a success. They did this to us. They always planned to do this, Feingold is right, and they did it.
Now as you say, will Feingold or Sanders or Brown step up call bullshit on the whole process or are they going to cave as Democrats always do. (and yes, I know Sanders is an independent.)
I agree, how do we get started on electing Howard Dean?!
So, why doesn’t Feingold filibuster it, along with other progressive Senators like Franken and Sanders?
Progressive Senators could blow up this bill just as easily as Lieberman did. Why aren’t they?
Hate to say it, but they’re all in this together.
A bland, limp version of feckless vanilla.
Very nice. Just the effect I was going for.
Q: What do you get when you puree tepid milquetoast and an invertebrate?
A: Harry Reid.
No, this started in March in terms of the official role out so 9 months.
You don’t understand! There’s nothing left. We’ve been conned.
You keep forgetting that the paradigm has shifted. It’s Upper vs lower; North vs South (in many more ways than one) schism. The Dem vs Rep paradigm is a a useless relic.
Don’t let them frame you .
65K? It’s entirely possible. I signed it a long while ago. The number was something around 35K at the time. Then I had tech problems putting up a diary here. So, by the time I got it up (the diary), many others may have come (if you know what I mean).
I really think a true progressive needs to threaten to join Republicans in a filibuster if they don’t pull out the mandate.
If they pull out the mandate (and the tax on the already insured), I’m not nearly as opposed to this legislation.
Mayhaps Dr Dean and the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party can now say sayonara to the neoliberal wing of the Democratic Party. The neoliberals can call it the New Democrat Party and Dr Dean can head up the Social Democratic Party.
They’ll probably cave but the package will (hopefully) fail anyway when the House and Senate are unable to reconcile their differences. You can bet the farm at that point the WH will blame the Left for opposing
corporate welfareHCR.Street theater is our last opportunity to educate the masses.
One thing you have to consider is the apparent source of that story……….the blond bimbo and scar….at least according to the reports I’ve seen on-line.
As someone who is furious with Obama and the Dems over this health care sell-out, I have to also question your assertion about the estate tax only affecting 1/4 of 1% of Americans. As I understand it, without an extension, the exemption for estate taxes will fall back down to $1 million. Remember, that’s $1 mil in value, not in liquid assets. Take me for example: this year I made $30,000 total, all of it from the rental of one property, a house I inherited from my parents (who bought it in 1954). But because I own that house and my own home (bought in 1978 for $88K) free and clear, at death I will have a net worth in excess of $1 mil. (Probably closer to $1.3 mil.) Therefore my heirs will have to sell one of those two houses just in order to pay the estate tax. So, one kid gets one house, the other kid gets the other house…no, that’s out the window. So much for leaving something modest to your kids. The fact is, even in the midst of this Depression, because of property value increases over the past three decades, a lot of average people have combined assets in excess of $1 mil in value.
Is it too late to conclude that they won’t? Isn’t this about the worst possible with the mandates and no public option? How stupid is that?
Thanks for that reference. I’ll add to volume XII of my complilation of Obama’s “tall tales on the road to the White House”.
Indeed, I find myself wondering of late if, in fact, he was born in America. How do we know for sure he wasn’t born in one of Henry Kissinger’s a Swiss bank accounts instead?
Re Howard Dean, he has not been terribly honest before now in the healthcare debate. He tried to conflate the public option with single payer and then in a contradictory vein said he supported the multiple payer (insurance company) option. I agree that after the Lieberman/Obama backstab he has come out strongly and forcefully denouncing their crap deal.
Straight from the horse’s ass.
Gibbs Lashes Back At Dean For Criticizing Health Care Bill, Suggests He’s Irrational
From Glenn Greenwald’s column:
“The administration wants not only to prevent industry money from funding an anti-health-care-reform campaign, but also wants to ensure that the Democratic Party — rather than the GOP — will continue to be the prime recipient of industry largesse…”
So there it is, Obama wants the insurance industry to finance future Democratic elections. In essence, his version of “K -Street” where all monies (or most) will go to Dem coffers. Rove smiles in admiration of the new prince of 1600 Penn Ave…disgusting!!
Does anyone have the web address of the ‘Progressive Caucus’? Indeed, this bill is the Insurance Industry Profit Protection & Enhancement Act.
Obama is now strong-arming this sellout as it reaches the home stretch. The last 3 years have been a unique history lesson for the young and old alike. We have a corporate government (plutocracy) that serves itself at the expense of the rest of the world. Regardless of which party holds the majority, the ultimate objective seems designed to enforce neocon doctrine by brute force. Diplomatically and militarily. The collusive components appear to be an alliance of American/Israeli financial super-houses that buy whatever political clout it needs to accomplish whatever it desires, both nationally and internationally. I’m not certain that Ronald Reagan was aware enough or intelligent enough to see these cretons crafting their vehicle during his term in office, but certainly all subsequent presidents have been puppets and only a miniscule number of either congressional house are not partly or mostly owned by the ruling plutocracy.
It does kinda make you wonder. Now that Lieberman et al. have gotten the bill bent, folded, spindled and mutilated into exactly nothing that’s going to benefit us over the insurance industry, Obama is telling Reid to kiss Holy Joe’s ass and git’er done. Maybe that’s why Obama had no plan of his own when he came into office; if he showed up with something like what he seems to be favoring right now … well, he couldn’t have.
I heard him offer a misguided defense of Reid a couple weeks back during the kabuki with Broder. Dean doesn’t always shoot straight, just straighter than most of the Dems in office.
Absolutely, that was why I couldn’t see sticking with this process for as long as we did. The bill stank a long time ago. If it failed, we were going to be blamed anyway. And if it passed, Obama and the Blue Dogs were going to take all the credit.
Democrats do need a very distinct self financed wing of the Party and yes the Progressive label is worth shit, let’s face it: we are Social-Democrats if not even Socialists (a la Bernie Sanders and more so), and let’s start rubbing it into everyone’s face!
No, that began on February 10th, 2007.
Yeaaaahhhh, but once in office he’d be just another fucking sell out!
Learn the lessons!
No reason for anyone to trust the White House on anything anymore. Rahm always was with out a moral compass but Obama has been an utter disappointment. They can spin the HCR bill all they want but no one is buying Obamas bullshit anymore. The independents left last summer, the progressives are finally giving up and moving away….smart boys have done well …wish em luck getting the Obama machine working for them in 10 and 12. Obviously Biden has fallen silent at the behest of Obama and Rahm. To bad he got screwed on Afghanistan and bet this HCR bill is a real burr up his ass. Speak up Joe.
Dean was but the first among many:
Glenn Greenwald on MSNBC: “This Bill Does More Harm Than Good”.
The chorus against this bullshit grows.
The failures in the WH and Senate are f*cked.
God is stalking the threads with a special eye out for me and.., who else I wonder feels especially blessed as I do today?
Bullseye.
Again, you presume too much. You have never heard me propose Dean as a candidate for anything.
Here’s a lesson, engage your brain before clicking the “Submit Comment” button.
It is not a plutocracy. That is rule by the wealthy and can allow for a certain level of competency in what they do. What we have is a kleptocracy. Its sole purpose is to loot. The two can look similar but it is the purely destructive aspect of the latter which defines the nature of our current government.
I just took your line to it’s unspoken conclusion. I fully know what you meant and agreed in my way.
The nerve. Who does Gibbs think he is, Ari Fleischer?
Kill the Bill Baby Kill the Bill!@!
My new rant!
Sanders describes himself as a Social Democrat. I doubt there are many in the public that know the difference between the old style socialists (where everything belongs to “the people”) and the ideas of the modern socialists on the New Left. I’d rather attempt to convince folks of the validity of my arguments than rubbing it in their faces.
Doesn’t fucking matter who replaces Obama. We lose regardless but at least Obama gets punished for his spitting in our face by LOSING. Even Bush managed to eke out a second term, something Obama wont be able to do.
THAT is true suckage.
Dean came out and said what many of us have been saying for weeks. That isn’t first or even near it.
Indeed.
I always try to inject a little humor [and a little irony] into my performances here. You have to or the apalling reality of it all would drive you insane.
From Obamas’ alma matter:
The Harvard Crimson:
Kill The Senate. Kill It Dead.
The upper house of Congress finally needs to go
http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2009/12/16/senate-house-legislation-act/
at least Obama gets punished for his spitting in our face by LOSING.
Same as for Reid, etal in 2010.
By their faces I meant the Village. I do not think they can be convinced of anything coming from the dirty hippies, so at least lets show we have balls,no?
I think there is a reasonably good possibility for a Perot-style outsider to challenge both Democrats and Republicans in 2012. Whoever it is will need to be a lot more media savvy than Perot was though because the corporatist media will go after him/her hammer and tongs.
Thanks, friend Rat -
An ass gibbs definitely is….another good example of the WH’s sucky choices as a public face. :-(
Pats to Bob for me.
that’s a Dollar Store band aid by the way – they fall off within an hour of application – fitting I’d say
I thought he described himself as a Socialist Independent, am I wrong?
Indeed, then it makes the bill just a lightweight and minor regulation adjustment to the system as it is. The mandate makes the bill outright fascist and illegal. The tax on “cadillac” plans is a trojan horse with the bill designed to race everyone’s employee insurance towards the bottom. The rich will still have their superduperuber coverage (including abortion on demand!) while the rest of us will be in the healthcare gulag.
Fuck Obama, Fuck the Dems.
No one yet has come up with a cogent explanation of how getting a lobbying job that pays hundreds of thousands more than the Member of Congress gig is “losing”.
Bob says “thanks.” 8:>
New post regarding unions potentially bucking the Senate bill.
Probably, tho’ Dog knows what that would look like…….ain’t nobody gonna be able to weld the tea baggers *and* progressives into a semblance of cohesion.
The white house can blame us for not voting in the next election when they get slaughtered. Who gives a shit. They lied they can fuck off.
My email to the WH
Again, this may well be true but, my question is how do they expect to get reelected? Where they planning all along to lose seats next year and make Obama a one term President? Was this part of their plan? And if so, why? If you don’t want to be in Congress or be President then, why run?
I meant that Dean was first Tues to call for the bill to be killed.
See Jane Kill the Senate Bill:
It’s time to start thinking a little more deeply.
What will happen between 2010 and 2012 with a Republican Senate?
Absolutely nothing.
We’re going to lose the Supreme Court even more deeply.
OK.. I buy that the president didn’t want a PO or an expansion of Medicare. He also said that there will be an individual mandate from the beginning.
In these senses, the bill as it is appears to reflect his blinkered vision.. which he’s stayed true to. I hate that this is where we are ’cause Congress couldn’t force him to accept something better, but it’s clear he got what he said he wanted.
But he also promised a mechansim to control runaway costs. This bill doesn’t do that and there is no credible way for him to claim that it does. It’s this one thing that makes him a liar, it seems to me, and he needs to give us a credible explanation of why we shouldn’t call him a liar.
Hey there,
Posted that over at EW’s. You might appreciate the comment below it and the link. Perhaps a threat from AIPAC via the WSJ?
They apparently have the mistaken impression that just because it has a (D) after its name, we’ll vote for it. Losing the next few elections doesn’t require people like us to vote for a rethug…….it only requires not pulling the lever for either one……and not donating money…..and not working to GOTV.
I’ll vote (and contribute with fingers crossed) for down-ticket candidates but not a bat’s prayer in hell will I vote for obama.
You do have a point, although there are those who get drunk on the “prestige” of holding a seat in the US Senate…sort of the best of both worlds.
I don’t know. I’ve heard him describe himself as a social democrat. He most often refers to himself as a progressive.
One of the things about an outsider populist run is that not of cohesion is needed. As we saw with Perot, the biggest danger is from the media which built him up to gain the credibility necessary to destroy him and his chances.
Not to worry. The voters have a plan:
1]
Vote the Democrats out of office…reelect the Republicans
2]
Vote the Republicans out of office…reelect the Democrats
3]
Vote the Democrats out of office…reelect the Republicans
4]
Vote the Republicans out of office…reeclect the Democrats.
This will stop when either a viable progressive party comes into existence or voters in the Democratic Party elect viable progressives to lead the party.
At 60, alas, I am almost certainly too old to ever encounter either one. For you younger folks, though, I’ll be pushing for you in the next life.
Well, if there is one, of course.
The Dems and Republicans will play their usual game of good cop/bad cop. Which is which depends on the perspective of the voter.
As far as I’m concerned, they’re both bad cops.
Now there’s a good plan.
More deeply than what?
Can we win against Corporate Personhood with these Supremes? No fucking way.
The difference you are attempting to validate is of little to no importance when contrasted with the current economic, privacy, security losses suffered by the majority of the population. It’s a red herring from where I stand.
To be fair Perot destroyed his own credibility when he dropped out of the race and then dropped back in. The final nail was when his party was about to nominate a different candidate for the ’96 election and Ross pulled the rug out and insisted they nominate him instead.
Don’t know how old you are BigJess, but I really can’t find any empathy within me for someone who will have over a million dollars to bequeath his heirs.
Even Bill Gates is cutting his kids out of his will preferring that they make their way in life on their own merits.
Also,please remember that it is ONLY the amount OVER $1m that will be taxed.
http://www.bargaineering.com/articles/average-net-worth-of-an-american-family.html
And besides, there are plenty of good lawyers out there who can shelter your 1.3M from the tax man. It’s the rest of us he goes after mightily because we can’t afford such lawyers.
I was once a member on NAM. We merged with DSOC and became DSA. Before that I was a member of the RCP and then the SWP.
A veritable alphabet soup of socialism.
Modern “socialism” is about infiltrating the ruling class and chipping away at its most egregious outrages.
Alas, however, what it almost never is anymore is infiltrating the working and the midlle class in order to organize them against the ruling class.
Now, if you don’t have a clue as to what in the fuck that means, I rest my case.
Boy that will show Wall Sreet…right?
I have problems anymore with the argument that the merely awful is the enemy of the godawful. If you look at Holder and all the noxious briefs the DOJ has been filing on state secrets, contesting habeas petitions, and snuffing out Bivens actions while not pursuing criminal investigations into torture on its own. (and no I don’t count the current lame review as serious). And I should throw in the failure to begin the widespread fraud that permeates the banking industry and Wall Street. In this context, further erosion on the Supreme Court is not going to make all that big a difference. Will the Court become even worse under Republicans? Of course. And you know why? Because the Democrats won’t do squat to stop them then or now.
The man the nation needed is not the man the nation got. Kissing up to Pharma and the Corporate Titans is not what the electorate called for.
I wanted the next President to say: ” I welcome their hatered” , just like this dude:
FDR Madison Square Garden 1936: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BksTHQo8Q78&feature=player_embedded
You can place your assets in a trust with your intended heirs named as trustees, although they won’t exercise control until your death. If you fear they might be tempted to bump you off you needn’t tell them in advance. It’s actually pretty inexpensive to set up.
As I said, Perot needed to be much more media savvy. But the media did everything in its power to set him up and knock him off. I mean that’s what our media does. It acts out this pantomime every 4 years for us in which we are told there really are real differences between Corporate Candidate 1 and Corporate Candidate 2.
PR, yes; stunt, hardly. Has our national debate over health CARE reform been jacked by well reasoned arguments grounded in facts? Obviously not!
This has been another installment of jacking the nation with the power of myths, brought to us by the media MOTU.
As some may know, the power of myths, to jack electorates, comes from the nature of their metaphorical language. That, in turn, comes from the literal meaning of metaphor: a vehicle or vessel for going from ignorance to understanding.
The metaphorical language of myth, therefore, can convey an entire nation all at once. It does this in either of two general ways: as passengers into life boats to the Yonder Shore; or as kittens into burlap sacks.
Either way, we’re getting taken for a ride. For people now to say our deliverance into this Waste Land isn’t the fault of the heretofore god-like captain and senior officers of our ship of state, is laughable, when coming from the plain ignorant. Others don’t have that cover.
Jacking public opinion with carefully scripted myths is the state of the art in manufacturing consent. PR and propaganda have a common history.
There’s plain villa PR, and then there’s “battlefield psy-ops.” Did you know that the Pentagon has 27,000 “influence operators” and a $4.7billion budget with which to jack our beliefs and opinions on vital issues? They call them “strategic domestic disinformation campaigns.”
Would someone explain to me how Obama and Rahm can be so dense as to not understand that a bill with an individual mandate and no meaningful concessions from the insurance industry is going to be toxic to Democrats in 2010? First the banks, now Pharma and health insurance. How can they be this stupid? Of if I’m the one missing something, please someone enlighten me. Reid and Obama now look invitingly weak and stupid. The Democratic leadership has outdone the GOP in whoring to special corporate interests. This was not the change I had in mind a year ago.
And Joe has yet to be stripped of his chairmanship? How can these guys believe anyone is going to take them seriously from here on? Fucking unbelievable.
Big media thinks conflict is sexy and sex sells. Admitting the candidates are essentially the same wouldn’t be prudent…
Like it isn’t already lost with the clowns currently running the show. They’d (the Dems) would let the GOPers run the show on the next nominee anyway.
Fuck them all. Hell, the SCOTUS showed its true colors in 2001. It is illegitimate and the building could use a good burning down around them.
You would tolerate all the corporate selling out just for the sake of a SCOTUS seat, replacing one person with a new corporate sellout judge.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Quit worrying about that when there are bigger issues, like the outright fascist takeover of OUR government.
They understand perfectly. They are going to be booted out of office to go on and become handsomely rewarded by those corporations they protected. They seriously could not care less about the American public.
Jesse Ventura?
Maybe not. But in my most cynical moods I kinda take comfort in knowing the nation got the man they deserved.
We talk about Lieberman and Obama and Reid and Baucus and all the rest of Wall Street’s rainmakers in the Congress. They just happen to be the ones on the Democratic side of the aisle this time.
But none of this would be possible without a citizenry steeped in two everlasting traditions:
1]
ignorance that reaches mountainous heights
2]
an addiction to pop culture, mindless consumption and celebrity worship that makes the mountainous ignorance seem like mere molehills
Sure, I root progressives and the future on. You know, every now and then.
Big talk from Sen Feingold, but now we’ll see if Big Russ has what it takes to vote AGAINST this horrible bill.
My guess is that he, like the rest of the so-called “liberal” democrats, is a fraud, down deep
If we can have conscientious objectors to war, we can also have conscientious objectors to forced payment for insurance. I’ve lived without medical insurance for more than 30 years, because of finances, because of strict allopathic protocols, and because I do not believe in supporting private insurance companies who care nothing about health care – just business. After having parents die of cancer and heart disease, and a sister in remission from cancer, I can only hope that the class ”civil war”, which is beginning in this country doesn’t last for 8 years. I hope we don’t lose 500,000 people, but we are in for a long disappointment. Promises, promises, promises. No work, no health insurance, no respect for the common good. Not only do I blame Joe ”Lie-berman”, but I also blame all the spineless members of the Democratic party, who have no gumption to speak up for the American people who are in need of change. We voted for BO because of change we thought would happen. Spineless, and miserable. Not only as corrupt as the ”do nothings”, but slaves to the corporate rulers – the new kings of this country.
They are like professional wrestlers in that most are performers in a staged show. It’s like our electoral system now. It’s purely for show. The play is scripted and the players get a piece of the action for their participation if only a temporary office-holder.
How do you think they were able to get NAFTA through a Democratic president, the passage of which has led to millions out of work with their former positions gone forever so stockholders can maximize profits using child labor and such in Asia and Latin America?
I’m on board.
Dean would have beaten Bush in ’04–in a heartbeat.
Time to call Obama out on all of this.
If this “health care reform” bill passes I’m done with the Democrats and Obama. They think they can do whatever they want and we’ll vote for them anyway just because they’re democrats. Wrong. Ralph Nader was right. You can’t let them take the progressive vote for granted. It looks like I’ll be sitting out 2012. Let Palin, Romney, Huck or whichever Bush-clone emerges from the primaries take this country right off the cliff. Maybe that’s where it deserves to go.
Good lord that was funny. Thanks.
I tire of the meme that the Teabaggers opposed Obama long ago for the same reasons progs and libs oppose his policy’s and actions now.
It’s a false meme. It’s a shilling point on the part of the right wing nuts to bond with progs/libs, a bond that is unholy.
Again, you confuse value with money. I won’t be leaving my kids $1.3 mil in cash, I’d be leaving them about $1.3 mil in property value. Based on current rents, the two properties combined would probably yield about $55,000 a year. That’s gross, before prop taxes, insurance, maintenance, etc. At that rate, if I died next year, it would be roughly (guessing about the inflation index) about 20 years (2030) before they would have inherited $1.3 mil in cash in today’s dollars. Also note that at an average of $27,500 each per year, that amount barely ensures that they can put their own kids through college.
And if they have to sell one of the houses (or both) then they pay taxes on that money, so it’s worth a lot less.
I’m in favor of high progressive tax rates (50%-75% top marginal rates) on income while people are alive, but I’m not for taxing them again after they’re dead for what they accrued while alive.
And as for rich people not leaving big fortunes to their kids, if you look closely I think you’ll usually see that the kids get a huge trust set up and then the rest goes to charity. If you’re worth $2 bil, you can leave 90% of that to charity and still leave your kids a trust worth $200 mil. So it’s not like the kids of Bill Gates or Warren Buffett will be working 9-5 selling insurance or cars or electronics at Best Buy to take care of their families.
To Whom It May Concern:
I am disgusted with the American congress! This country is broke, our infrastructure is in shambles, our banks are reaping billions of tax payer money and now, NOW we are held hostage to the health insurance companies. We were promised by Senator Obama during his campaign that we would have change. I thought he meant change for the good of our country, but what he must have meant was that he would leave us a little change in our pockets after he was done with us! He has helped the banks, the insurance companies and the military industrial complex but not the people who truly need a voice; that would be the rest of the 90% of the American people. I know that big business is important to our country and that they employ millions of people, but if they keep sending our good jobs overseas for slave labor and business are enslaving American people by making them pay for broken banks, pharmaceutics and insurance companies and sending our young people overseas to fight in shameful wars, there is no way this country can maintain a healthy standard of living except for the top 1%. It amazes me that the congress and president Obama so blatantly help big business when the democrats promised to help the middle class and people in need especially with health care. We the people need to have a stop gap if we feel that we are not being represented . We the people need a vote of some kind to override the horrible damage this congress and other congresses in the past, that have lied to us over and over, to fix the wrongs and make them right. We the people need to have some way to speak out, like a federal referendum, when the majority who put people in office, are not being represented. We need this option NOW even if it needs to go all the way to the Supreme Court to take back our country and begin a new age of democracy.
Anyone here familiar with the Uncle Remus stories about Br’er Rabbit?
Russ Feingold speaks the truth. I can’t believe he said it, but he did. Too bad this, the TRUTH, is a footnote in the news overall, instead of a headline, wait, not even a footnote, just a headline at a liberal blog. We can’t win.
What does it SAY, that only Russ Feingold has said the truth, and only one good liberal blog headlines what he said? What does that say?
===>> We can’t win. For us to act like we can would be comedy for them, if they gave us a thought. We are the ant crawling up the elephant’s leg.
HUGS to K.O. for the pledge. Me too! I’ve planned to go to jail over the mandate since the day I first heard of it. (I didn’t hear no stinking “me too” from Rachel Maddow, but didn’t expect one.)
Yes, but why?
A start: Never watch Ed Schultz again. Never patronize a living soul who chose to give the “benefit of the doubt to our president” on Aghanistan. Fucking traitors. Cancel The Ed Show, ohm!
Rather than the suggestion of recalling Lieberman, why don’t we as a society just recall the entire Congress. You know that line that goes… When In The course Of Human events…….
I don’t believe they want to bond with us, and I’ve never heard this meme before. The Beck/Baucus/Palin/limbaugh/ teabag MORANS are a cooked up crock, they aren’t real. Well, the teabaggers are, they’re useful morans, of course. But their “leaders” are out to distract US, to “hate everything that poor good new preznit does” so that when WE hate what Obama is REALLY doing, no one can hear us, all they hear is teabaggery and fucktardedness. We’re yelling in a wind tunnel. The cameras are on them, and never going to be on us for that reason. That’s what they’re for. They aren’t around to “ultimately bond with us.” NOBODY thinks they are.
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
Dump Congress now.
You are correct. The sorry state of HCR legislation is ultimately the fault of progressives like Feingold and Sanders who refuse to enter the fray and demand concessions for their votes. Until we have progressives who care enough about the progressive agenda to stand their ground we will live in a center-right governing environment. Time to put the screws to the progressives because they are our representatives, our only representatives.
We need to kill this bill , regroup and pass the public option. This won’t go away.
See this great piece by Thom Hartmann. We are all awake now- four generations have been lied to and we won’t take it anymore!
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/16-3