When we started the effort to whip for the public option on June 23, we said:
If 40 Democrats in the House say they will not vote for any health care bill that does not have a strong public plan, then they have the same power that a Ben Nelson or an Evan Bayh has had in the Senate to determine the outcome–when every vote was needed to pass something. Every commitment we get in excess of that 40 makes the commitment even more powerful. We need to get progressive members of Congress to commit that they will not vote for any bill or conference report that does not have a robust public plan that is:
- available nationwide
- available on day one
- and accountable to Congress and the voters
Why did we set the bar there? Well, it wasn’t because a “public option” represented the perfect system. It was because Americans have been fed kabuki for so long that it has come time to shine a light on the process by which progressive values are consistently betrayed by those who earn their seats espousing them.
The fact is the President campaigned on a public option. There were 88 members of the House who had cosponsored H.R. 676, the “single payer” bill. Rep. Woolsey and Grijalva had sent a letter to Nancy Pelosi in April saying that the 77 member Progressive Caucus would not support a bill without a public option. Didn’t seem like too much to ask that the Democratic party live up to its campaign promises, right?
Instead, President Obama cut sweetheart deals with medical industry stakeholders (let’s stop pretending that Rahm doesn’t work for him) and insisted that all the power in the Democratic Congress be given to its most conservative members to deliver on it. Joe Lieberman didn’t get here by himself — the day Harry Reid said reconciliation was “off the table,” Joe had the keys to the kingdom.
The “public option” was a way to keep as much money as possible from being channeled into the “too big to fail” insurance companies, who continue to merge and consolidate and will use it to lobby to further empower themselves. It was a strike against a “shock doctrine” effort to mandate payment to private companies, and preemptively privatizes the system.
As Dave Johnson writes (via email):
Most other countries provide health care as a right – a core function of government. But here privateers have seized it for themselves for profit. So to maintain this, to keep taxes low for the rich and keep the profits privatized we are ordered to buy it from companies instead of having it provided as a government service. This is the battle between democracy and corporatization.
Instead of a public option, what does the Senate bill contain?
- A removal of the ban on annual limits that Reid slipped in at the last minute, in violation of the President’s promise in his September address to Congress
- An exemption from anti-trust law for insurance companies that will reduce competition
- Taxes that start up in January, but benefits that don’t start until 2014
- No ability to negotiate for Medicare drug prices (you know, that thing the Democrats passed in the “first hundred days” in 2006 when it didn’t matter)
- No cost controls, so health insurance premiums will continue to rise at a rate of $1000 a year
- A tax on middle class insurance plans that is designed to cut back insurance benefits, reduce coverage, and increase co-pays and deductibles.
That reduction in your insurance benefits is a feature, not a bug — it’s how they’re going to “bend the cost curve.”
And so here we are. And we’re going to get to see if the progressive members of the House will stand by their word to hold the line, or if — as always seems to happen — they are going to “dive” in sufficient numbers to make sure that the corporatist agenda gets fulfilled. Are they going to pretend that Joe Lieberman has all the power in the party, too, and that they have none?
Please call their offices and let them know that they are in safe Democratic seats, and you expect them to do what they have repeatedly promised to do — vote against any bill that does not have a public option.
Because if the won’t, we’ll get to see that “good intentions” are just the public face of deep criminality and they’re really just there to hold down safe Democratic seats in order to deliver what PhRMA wants in the end.
And then we’ll use this opportunity to do better.
Steny Hoyer says the House will pass this bill. Well, not unless almost everyone in the progressive caucus goes back on their word.



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You go Jane. Playing progressive hardball. Hold their feet to the fire. Will make some calls. All ready called my Reps this morning.
Have you read Scarecrows thread over at Seminal. Whoa
I think this is the wrong move. We should be saying this:
If the public option goes, so does the mandate.
If we kill the mandate (and the excise tax for good measure), this bill becomes better than nothing, if not by much. And this way we’re not seen as just trying to burn the whole thing down.
Thanks for all your work.
Sam Stein has a piece of work up over at Huff Po that will make your head spin filled with the lying Liarman’s lies
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/15/moveon-holding-emergency_n_392668.html
MoveOn Holding Emergency Rally At White House Over Health Care
…and all eyes turn to FDL. Master strategist, thy name is Hamsher.
Rather disturbing news, at least in my neck of the woods. I just called my New York Representative, Democrat Carolyn Maloney, who voted for the House bill, to ask that she commit to opposing any bill coming out of joint House-Senate conference that did not have some form of public sector competitition to the private insurance companies, whether public option or Medicare buy-in or whatever.
And I was told that mine was THE FIRST CALL OF THE DAY!!
Come on, progressives, time to get into second gear!
I don’t think he’s normally considered a “progressive,” but I want to say a heartfelt public thank you to North Dakota’s Byron Dorgan for his anger on the Senate floor shortly after noon today.
Righteous anger on behalf of the American public, who are being “soaked,” as he said, and who Dorgan’s senior Democratic Senate colleagues, in secret cahoots with the White House, comfortably plan to continue to soak because “the fix is in” from all accounts of the latest backroom presidential/PhRMA deal to screw us over in order to maintain ever-more-obscene profits for the drugmakers.
Dorgan was, in part, rebutting Tom Carper’s pathetic presentation of the FDA Commissioner letter that Carper had carefully solicited to try to deep-six Dorgan’s drug reimportatation amendment, and Carper’s “shopworn” excuses that are long past their sell-by dates. Carper, earlier in the morning, was swallowing every other word he spoke, as Baucus usually does, in a transparently-dishonest, detached and lackluster presentation.
It is amazing how rarely genuine anger at corporate-sponsored, misleading PR is voiced on the Senate floor, particularly about arguments from someone of the same Party. But it was extremely refreshing to hear, especially from a Senator who has obviously worked so hard on this issue, without receiving much assistance from his Democratic colleagues (who are too busy kneeling at Emanuel’s knee) during this debate.
I hope Dorgan keeps the pressure on when he resumes the debate on his reimportation amendment this afternoon. Dorgan made it clear that the “Lautenberg” amendment is solely and only intended to wipe out the Dorgan amendment, despite the latter’s bipartisan, 30-cosponsor, eight-year struggle to open the “global marketplace” to the average American citizen when it comes to purchasing the medicines they need.
If only Dorgan could find the moral courage to transfer that anger into a stand against the White House dealmakers that would allow the Legislative Branch to work its own will, unmanipulated by White House lackeys.
Spoke with DC office of Woolsey. Still no statement about reaffirming commitment.
Mike Stark: please find Lynn Woolsey and get a statement about this. CPC needs to speak with one, strong voice.
Spoke with Kucinich office. Not in his district (am in 18th district in OHio)
Woman who answered the phone after question about would he continue to refuse to vote for legislation that did not have a public option? She responded “can not speak for the Congressman, his latest press releases about this will be at his site”
Weak
Yeah, I got a similar response from Woolsey’s underling. Pathetic.
Progressive hardball rocks!
Well done on MSNBC this afternoon, Jane.
The idea for an ad to run in Nevada calling out Reid for his failure to lead is awesome. Already contributed.
Thank you!
Is there any way to get the mandate taken out of the bill? You know, since the Senate is so into the idea of compromising whatever it takes to get the votes. Can’t we get someone like Bernie Sanders to pull a Lieberman for the left and threaten to join the Republican filibuster if they don’t take out the mandate?
I hope that becomes a youtube and it’s posted pronto!
Want me to ruin the suspense for you?
Tend to agree with you much of the time, but in this case that’s money thrown away. Harry is toast with us or without!
Let’s instead assure Sanders and Brown that we’ll have their backs with huge donations!
Money’s so tight for me right now, it’s hard for me to pay for necessities, but I think I’m going to start squirreling away what little I can and reserve it for any candidate who seems to have genuine progressive principles.
Just got off the phone with a guy in Gwen Moore’s (D WI) DC office. He tried to sell me on talking to U.S. Senators, Kohl and Feingold.
I remained civil in telling him that if 40 progressives in the House came out publicly against this monstrosity, it would impact what the Senate did.
Jane, I used the terrific points in your post to illustrate to the staffer what a complete sell out the bill was.
Moore is a member of the black caucus, a high percentage of her constituents are on food stamps. Her failure to stand against this is an abomination of desolations.
Don’t like bank-run, for-profit health care? Terminate your accounts with said banks (BoA, Citi, etc.). Don’t forget to cut up those credit cards. Terminate all that automatic payment, direct deposit nonsense all the way down to your cell phone. Consider joining a reputable, local credit union instead that passes your due diligence. Go back to the merciless paper trail and knowing the institution’s managers and tellers by face and name. You CAN live without them; they CAN’T live without you.
In addition to calling/e-mailing Reps, I’d also suggest spending some time on the other blogs [starting with HuffPost] to “educate.”
Jane’s provided us with a handy cut-n-paste to insert in comments. Most of what I’m seeing from Obamabots over there is “but This Many uninsured will get covered.” That’s all they’ve got, and they repeat it again and again.
The List of Shame of the bill’s short-comings needs to be posted again and again. Maybe then folks will start seeing “failure” [of the bill] as an “option.”
RedState says Sen. Nelson says “No” to President Obama on Senate Bill.
Vermont Public Radio reports Howard Dean says kill the Senate Bill.
http://www.vpr.net/news_detail/86681/
Looks like Burris (D-IL) just made a sort-of-veiled threat over the Lieberman Capitulation Act.
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/15/burris-pushes-back/
Usually you have to be a state or federal employee, or employee of whoever is sponsoring the credit union, to join.
This is just not a viable option for many of us. Unless you’ve got alternative suggestions.
Do we know how many people will be dropped from insurance rolls for every $ 1000 (1 year) increase in premiums?
We may know instinctively what pile of shit this is, but we need some stats!
Really, you just reach a point where you don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
Or yawn.
Business as usual in the Congress. Business as usual in the White House.
Ad infinitum.
Unless of course things change. Unless of course we can’t bring that about.
Can we?
KILL THIS SHITTY BILL!
Promises were made, Congressmen.
Each and every one of you who are in safe Democratic seats must vote against this piece of shit, and indeed must vote against any bill that does not have a public option.
(Senators have shifted to selling this garbage. Pathetic.)
Dems right now on CSPAN killing drug re-importation. “Killer” amendment from White House introduced by Sen. Lautenberg. Disgusting.
In the past it was Repugs who were in bed with Pharma, now it’s Dems.
The $100 Billion it would have saved consumers, and $20 Billion it would save feds, was one of the last benefits the bill might have had. Dorgan should have conditioned his support of HCR on this amendment passing.
HCR is no longer about reform.
Take out the mandate and we can continue gumming this tripe!
“PRESIDENT” RAHM EMANUEL SHOULD RESIGN ASAP!
He forced poor Harry Reid to swallow a VERY bitter and almost useless pill known as the Senate Health Care Reform bill.
Mr.“Real” President Obama- Stop handing over these extremely important decisions to Rahm. He is killing your Presidency.
Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com
I called Betty McCollum and sent her an email. The response is what I’d call ‘meh’. BUT I pointed out that in her last election, I actively campainged for her. And I made it clear that I expected her to vote against any bill that lacked a strong public option but that contained a mandate.
It’s either or —— either contain a strong public option and a mandate or no public option and no mandate.
And I’m perfectly willing to take my support to her challenger in the next election.
you have the tail wagging the dog there
rahm is doing what obama is telling him to do, this is a fact
and reid could have avoided any and all of this through reconciliation, this is also a fact
it seems they are all in league, obama being the quaterback
Our tax dollars at work,again,—against us.
Talk about taxation with MISrepresentation!
Take out the mandate or kill this bill!!!!!!!
let’s just kill the bill, that will be fine
dr dick-Do you feel Zeke Emamanuel has a role in this?
ps
I still cannot get into the news desk
that’s not fair gitcheegumee, it’s dr rick, , his post is clearly in good faith
Jane a lot of us never blamed emmanuel. We knew all along he was obama’s mouthpiece.
And when rahm got blasted by liberals, obama THOUGHT he had plausible deniability. Unfortunately for him, bush had already done that and somne of us saw through the plan right from the get-go.
Absolutely.
obama change sucks.
one
term
president
@36
perris, I promise that was not sarcasm.
I even asked on an EW thread earlier today, if anyone had input about Rahm’s NIH brother having influence on health reform.
Honest!
You asked me a question in the earlier thread about Lieberman; I left you an answer there.
Dave Johnson is correct, this is a battle between corporatization and democracy and Obama is facilitating the takeover of democracy and our Republic as well as any republican ever could.
His utter failure of leadership has been so telling… He went to CT for HoJo and he’s letting HoJo not only push back his campaign promises (in fact, wasn’t it almost promise #1?) but he’s fucking helping him do it. Here was Obama in 2006:
Joe certainly knows how to repay a debt.
Is there anyone out there who is almost (I say almost) grateful that we did not have a Vice-President Lieberman in 2000? Who needed a hypocritical scold when we had Cheney?
I meant misspelling dr ricks name, I see now it was a typo not deliberate
sorry about that
Agreed that Reid is in enough trouble without my money. Disagree about watching Brown’s back. On Olbermann last night, he gushed with praise over what’s left of the bill without a public option and an extension of Medicare.
I say a more potent protest would be to change party affiliations en masse to I. Xerox and mail the form with an explicit explanation to all Congressional representatives, as well as Obama. Obama is deaf and blind to the consequences of his betrayal. A massive abandonment of voters would emphasize the seriousness and implications of the anger.
he. Take the mandate out and even Lieberman will oppose it. His corporate lords and masters in Hartford will order him to.
Can you believe what the traitor-troll of Stamford said today:
“I just said I know it’s been difficult for people and I regretted it, it’s been difficult for all of us, I said.”
In other words, he regrets taking a stand for corruption, but he’s going to do so anyway. Unbelievable.
From watching some of the Dems on cable last night, you can hear in their voices they don’t even buy what they’re selling. It’s hard to get through on the phone these days too, not like it used to be. They don’t want to hear from us. Just have to keep writing and doing whatever we can. Thanks for all your hard work Jane.
Almost makes you wonder if they wanted to get rid of burris because he made it clear he wouldn’t play ball.
Maybe the Republicans will impeach him in 2011 before his term is over and we can be done with him sooner rather than later.
I am a little lost… If the Senate passes this crap I believe it goes to conference, money and promises change hands, then the cocked up bill goes back to the House? Does it go to the floor or does it get OK’d by Fancy Nancy. Then does it go back to the Senate? before going on to Rham to sign?
PS What ever happened to 51?
Obama should be asking for Rahm’s resignation.
He’s not.
It’s all Obama.
That Reid bent way over again and again and again, taking everything being forced upon him without pushing back at all, speaks many more volumes about Reid, failed Majority Leader, than about anyone else.
One thing that I never see discussed are the number of corporate shares held by non-US citizens, and non-US interests.
I think that few Americans realize that their medical coverage ends up as profit on Wall Street, and as dividends in the pockets of people ( or institutional investors) who have zero interest in their communities, welfare, or economic security.
It’s extractive, not sustainable.
…and he”s done it to himself. His life on the high-dollar speaking circuit is assured as is Michelle’s on every corporate board in America and overseas. He doesn’t care, it’s all part of the Audacity of Nope.
Just left you a message about on the end of EW’s thread from yesterday; if Rahm’s brother is a legit, NIH researcher then he only gets respect from his peers for being a good researcher.
Researchers do not like to get mixed up with politics, in my observation. They care about respect from their peers, and that is based on quality work, well done.
It was obvious to anyone who’s ever followed research that the Bushies didn’t respect, nor understand, good science.
But science is a huge economic engine.
I’m thinking that Rahm’s brother probably wants to stay out of public sight and just do his job; researchers tend to be **very** busy people with huge demands on their time.
and it is not likely to be won by furiously typing away.
Democrats have done some opo research on this F.D. missive:
“Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them.
“
What would it have taken for these bastards and bitches to get this right? Terminally ill patients with no health coverage immolating themselves on the Capitol steps or in front of the WH gate.
Good news:
A beaming Obama tells the world we are, “on the precipice of historic health care reform.”
Whew.
I wasn’t really sure until now.
Thanks, Mr. President. We couldn’t have done it without you.
the problem for Reid et al is that they have no hold over the guy. They tried to kick him out of the Senate and failed. And he’s not going to run again. There is absolutely no reason why he’d play ball.
This begs the question: what happens if Burris follows through on his threat? My math says Fail unless they make further compromises to make sure Snowe +1 more (Collins?) are in. Then there’s still Nelson’s threat over the Stupak amendment. This isn’t done yet. Lose Nelson or Burris and this doesn’t get done.. or am I wrong?
Imo, Sherrod has been elected by the efforts of progressives, he may respond to our offers of support in kind, Reid, not at all.
Feed the masses spin and bullshit delivered by a corrupt and complicit corporate media.
That’s a good point. A couple ideas:
- I know of one CU in my town that only requires you live, work, go to school, or worship in the city limits. That is, pretty much anyone is eligible. There may be a similar one in your town.
- If you are connected with the military, I highly recommend USAA. It’s a lot like a world-wide credit union, but it’s a bank, insurance company, buying service, broker, etc., all rolled into one. Stable, conservative, and service-oriented (so to speak!).
And for the record: Kill the mandate, or kill the bill.
Why not push Sen. Roland Burrus to filibuster any bill without a public option? He’s already got no friends in the Senate, and no forseeable political future. Maybe the promise of a little progressive backing is what he needs to make a stand.
But so much more to the point: Why did Olbermann let him get away with it? Where does he draw the line in exposing crony capitalism.
Indeed, they will even pay the cable companies to beam it to them.
He has to go back to Illinois. Doubtful if he has the resources to have a 24/7 security detail.
US based ,but offshored corporations with international tax havens.
I had a link about the US companies that Bush gave a break to a few years ago,to repatriate tax dollars,back to the US. without penalties.
Most of the BILLIONS that were repatriated were from pharmaceutical companies, but BILLIONS MORE were NOTrepatriated at all.
He has a wallet open to the highest bidder, and the public interest ain’t gonna be it.
the math says he doesn’t have to filibuster it. If he simply votes against it, there’s no bill. or is that a Vice Presidential tie-breaker? dunno.
has Franken committed to the new compromise?
Oops. sorry. franken has committed.
http://www.minnpost.com/derekwallbank/2009/12/15/14329/franken_klobuchar_optimistic_after_obamas_health-care_pep_talk_today
The thought has certainly crossed my mind, more than once.
And we’re about to go over the edge and end up very badly off.
Queen Snow is their trump card should Burris (doubtful) balk. Sanders, on the other hand…..?
It’s time to seize the moment, defend America and democracy against pirates and privateers..it’s a call to arms to protect America and it’s more perfect union. Up the revolution. Sounds better than we give up let corporations stomp us with their hobnail boots.
Yeah I saw that. We need to grab that video.
Right on, Jane. Brent Budowsky said the same thing today. Unfortunately, Alan Grayson, the take-no-prisoners guy from a few weeks back, was on Ed Schultz today and sounded like a kid who forgot his homework. Pathetic.
there’s also the possibility that Lieberman will try more extortion over the next few days. he just might.
Wow, Dean’s done a 180! Just last week he was all in for the Senate Bill (as much as he or any knew what was or was not in it).
Interesting!
Wonder why Howard WENT for the Shit Bill, and now wonder why he’s come back to rejecting the shit bill?
Because things changed in a HUGE way over the last week.
Thanks for the reminder of how furious it made me.
Who knows? Maybe he predicted Sen. Lieberman’s next move, and tried to prevent it. But that is 100% speculation.
A One-Time Tax Break Saved 843 U.S. Corporations $265 Billion
LYNNLEY BROWNING
Published: June 24, 2008
More than 840 of the largest American corporations reaped a $265 billion windfall thanks to a one-time tax break aimed at bringing home profits stashed overseas, according to recent government data. A one-time tax holiday enacted by Congress in 2004 offered companies the chance to bring that money back at a reduced tax rate of 5.25 percent.
Some of the biggest names in corporate America decided to take advantage, in particular those in the pharmaceutical and technology industries. Pfizer brought back $37 billion, while Hewlett-Packard repatriated $14.5 billion.
In all, 843 corporations took advantage of the offer, according to recent I.R.S. statistics of income data, bringing back $362 billion in foreign profits, paid to the parent corporations as dividends. Of that amount, $312 billion qualified for the tax break, giving those companies total tax deductions of $265 billion claimed from 2004 through 2006. Put another way, the tax break gave each company claiming it an average $370 million in tax deductions.According to I.R.S. data and Grant Thornton, pharmaceutical manufacturers alone accounted for more than 30 percent of the repatriated total, with 29 corporations each claiming an average tax deduction of almost $3 billion on foreign profits brought home.
EXCELLENT article-link to follow
A One-Time Tax Break Saved 843 U.S. Corporations $265 Billion …Jun 24, 2008 … By LYNNLEY BROWNING. Published: June 24, 2008. More than 840 of the largest American corporations reaped a … More Articles in Business » …
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/business/24tax.html – Similar
Might Howard Dean be wrong?
Let me make clear that I think this deal is an unacceptable abomination. In fact, as a quick review of my postings last week when the Medicare buy-in entered the scene will reveal, I was not even that crazy about that either. I felt then, and continue to feel now, that the public option with the state opt-out was just about the limit progressives should have caved.
But what about conference?
I agree that there is a case to kill the bill in the Senate. Let’s think through what that means if we do it.
It will be the end of this bill. It means that the next attempt at reform will be from scratch. This political system can barely sustain one of these attempts once in every generation. So the question is have we done better than previous generations, and is that fact worth protecting?
So how about this: Yes, we call for the eliminaton of the individual mandate, thus stripping the bill of the biggest windfall for private insurance companies, one of the reasons why an insurance company lobbyist gleefully proclaimed “We win!” We might very well have conservative support for that, ironically enough, so Jane is right that that is worth doing and eminently doable.
Here’s the key: Other than stripping out the individual mandate, the Senate is now a lost cause. So let them pass their piece of shit, and we insist on conference. We insist that progressive Representatives stand by their position that the bill MUST force the insurance companies to compete with the public sector in order to keep down costs maintain quality.
If we kill this bill, then we will have let go to waste those House progressives who continue to insist on public sector competition with the private insurance companies in the bill before they can vote for it. That is why Howard Dean may be wrong. As long as there’s a chance that House progressives can exercise sufficient pressure to improve the product coming out of conference it is premature to be talking about killing this bill.
Obviously House progressives may cave; obviously they may betray us. But that hasn’t happened yet. Should we be really closing the door NOW to the possibility that those House progressives may yet save the day?
I think not. And I think, on reflection, that Howard Dean may come to the same conclusion.
Please, please, let’s think about this very carefully. Thank you.
Dear dear Jane.
Running fast here and no time to see comments upthread, but I have to make a confession.
I have succumbed to the seasonal pressures: growing literally teary-eyed wherever I look at rampant blind greed aided and abetted by many in media, vs. gut-wrenching, truly frightening stats on the newly needy as well as those who…, well…, has anyone seen any updates on Katrina survivors and how they’re treated these days ?…
People “in the way” of gas lines that simply MUST carve their frenzied path through all, blown-up wells be -um- darn-it-all’d …
Retirees whose benefits are cut so quickly the brass couldn’t be bothered even to spell-check the hastily mailed regrets …
Bidness hiring semi-permanent “temps” rather than granting tenure; then expectiing 24/7 from those, whenever they’re “on call”.
Benefits, schmenifits! pssssst… Aetna’s not the only company bumping up profits by bumping out unprofitables. Heaven help those who actually need services they paid for “up front”; now that’s “passe” somehow.
No, I haven’t specifics to share today, other than reading hapless aetna’s unlucky 15 min. of defame-itry…
Then… THEN… There’s whatever the bloomin’ haich dee que that’s transpirin’ in D.C., seemingly for the amusement of whollyjoah-liarbot, and [some of his brethren].
There are heroes and heroines also – I notice these things – THANKS to them, and I will not forget at election time.
In the meantime, (((((Jane))))), I thank you. You may just save the sanity of a few of us. I’ll let you know at some future date if I am in that number.
Your Campaign Slogan, should you choose to run:
I tried, and I STOOD for SOMETHING. What did YOU do?
i know. it’s too cranky to be sold to the manicured masses.
so what?!
/rant
I have repeatedly asked the following questions in the past week and have had no replies:
1) The Senate has yet to finalize a bill. What Reid sent to CBO has NOT come back yet. No one knows what’s in the bill!
2) Once the CBO returns analysis, Senate has to vote on it, yes? Up or down? 60 votes to pass? Is this the next step?
3) Reid shows NO sign of using the recon 51 vote process for a bill with a public option, we can all agree that’s dead, yes?
4) Once Senate passes final bill, what happens? There will be one Senate Bill, one House Bill. What happens?
5) Who in the House will decide what to do? Pelosi? Can she demand up or down on Senate bill only, ignore House bill?
6) What IS the two chamber process, how does it work? Is there a committee built of House and Senate members that hash out the two bills, into one bill, and then present that to both Senate and House for final vote, pre Prez Signing/Veto?
Thanks to ANYONE who can spell out this process! Without knowing what this process really IS, I find it IMPOSSIBLE to contemplate who will do what, much less WHY they will do it.
Soon enough FDL will be ‘one of those progressive blogs’, i.e., a MSM lump-term of art no one thinks critically about. Unless FDL becomes a legitimate political party, it won’t achieve any of its goals. Look how much FDL has grown and how important it has become in such a short time. What will sustain it? New ‘readers’? Its own TV ‘show’? If FDL stumbles one time, it won’t be able to recover any of its recent momentum. I’m not optimistic about its future. This society is always bored or bitter. Is that an overstatement? It’s likely, after the two major parties self-destruct and are no longer worth listening to, that the next presidential election will be a contest between Joe Lieberman and Sarah Palin.
This is the last chance to escape a MONTROUS bill, and make sure this thing dosent pass. Any progressives left that have any hope that it will be made better should look at the whole process, where we started and where we are now. The best and most furious efforts of well meaning people have led us to this sad place. Dont give up on health care but this health insurance “reform” is obscene and must not pass. Its much worse than nothing. Forget Obama. In a single year he has proven he didnt deserve the job so why waste any worry on his not being rehired 3 years from now.The real fight is not about party affiliation, and the DLC and the senate democratic campaign committee and james carville and mary maittlin are so full of shit nothing they say is worth listening to. the real fight is not a party fight it is a class fight, and a fight against the complete usurpation of our lives and freedoms by powerful corporate entities, and the tiny minority that comprise them.
They’ll have a constituency of not a whole hell of a lot of voters by then.
The rest of us will be voting for people who are sane. Don’t know who, yet, but we could do worse than, say, Dean and Franken.
Wow. That’s what I call despair. Perhaps you should go sit in the sunshine (if there is any in your area).
If we sound bitter lately, well, that’s lately, and there are good reasons for it. But when I have slid down toward despair, it has been Jane Hamsher and FDL (and Christy HS, and Phoenix Woman, and Watertiger, and too many regular posters to mention) who have pulled me back up and persuaded me to keep at it.
Your predictions are way, way too pessimistic. Take a break from all this for a couple days – it’s worth it.
Repeating my #84:
Does ANY Pup know what the process is, and where we are AT, at this point?
Eagerly waiting answers . . .
Yeah, because everybody knows the real problem with the American health care system is it’s simply TOO good and the only way to fix it is to make insurance even crappier and harder to afford. Pay no attention to the skyrocketing premiums, medical bankruptcies, and infant mortality, and a general life expectancy slipping below that of 3rd world countries. No — the way to fix it is to charge poor and middle class people more and give them less.
I am beyond mere disgust and verging now on flat out rage.
The bored and bitter public will (be taught again how to) mock and sneer at Dean and Franken. Dean was very very easy to destroy, and I suppose Franken will be easier. (Disclaimer: I never thought Franken was funny, and I thought he was a smug faker of fake outrage on that smug radio show. He’s still too embryonic as a politician.)
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Sounds like you’re talking to me. Next week the light starts coming back. I’m not despairing, I absolutely don’t think FDL supporters are bitter, I know they’re encouraged and emboldened, and with good reason as you’ve pointed out. Just because Jane Hamsher has a superior intellect and a better writing ability than anyone except perhaps for Marcy Wheeler isn’t sufficient to turn enough around. Yeah, and I think anything’s possible, like Lieberman versus Palin because there’ll be more money to buy them and support them than for anyone else who’s (cough) electable. I may be very naive, but I’m not despairing, or even unhappy.
IF Burris is willing to join the R’s in FILIBUSTERING the bill.
I just called Jim McDermotts office and came away quite outraged. The lady on the phone pretended she didn’t know what pledge I was talking about or what Lieberman bill I was referring to. Even when I explained, she kept acting like she hadn’t ever heard of any of these things. Like she didn’t even know what the healthcare debate I was referring to was about.
So I called her a liar. I asked how was it possible for her to work for Mr. McDermott and not know the first thing about the largest political debate in this nation for the past year?
So she hung up on me.
ahh, I see the White House PR team is trying to permeate this website as well.
Unfortunately, you’re not fooling anyone around here, go back to DKos jerk.
Jane, you are awesome. You work tirelessly for us and I appreciate it.
Why don’t we pay for health care with a VAT tax? From a reader of the UAW’s Solidarity magazine:
http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/09/1209/letter01.php
Right, I’ve been lying in wait for like two years, also left a trail of contributions and petition signatures here, ready to ‘permeate’ when the time was right. Anyway, no insult taken, but you wasted a comment.
Saw Woolsey a bit ago and she wouldn’t commit to saying NO. Not a good omen.
Here’s what i would say to our Congress:
-Vote YES for the horrible Lieberman bill? NO support of any kind in 2010 leaving you as targets for Republican whackos.
Say NO to the bad Senate Bill, come back to the table later as Dr. Howard Deans suggests?? AND WE’VE GOT YOUR BACK.
Let’s show the voters this group of Democrats won’t give one more dollar than necessary to the same industry that left them all out in the cold for years.
If the bill is killed in the Senate, they can start another in the House using reconciliation, as Dean said. With reconciliation we’re more likely to get a good bill. Dean’s right.
Papa Obama has a talk with his daughter Malia about health care.
Malia:
Daddy, I’ve been reading about health care on the web. How do we get ours?
Papa:
Well, Honey, the government taxes the people. And because Daddy works for the government we get our health care paid for by them.
Malia:
Does it work for everyone like that?
Papa:
Well, uh, we’re working on it.
Malia:
And I read in school how in America over eight million kids like me don’t even have health care. How come?
Papa:
Oh, that’s because of the evil Republicans, Honey. Remember when we invited Mr. Lieberman for dinner the other night and he explained all about them? But we are going to change all that…
Malia:
When?
Papa:
Well, someday for sure.
Oh, the monster will grow if the economy keeps plunging. No one will be happy with this bill if it increases premiums to prop up profits for insurance company owners while at the same time we’re all being thrown out of work. It’s getting more and more obvious who is running things in Washington…and it isn’t us and it isn’t any party platform that dictates what does or doesn’t get done.
Jyrinx, I agree.
No need to make people that can’t pay have to buy insurance that will skyrocket in price (along with everything else).
The measures in the Senate bill, minus mandated buyin, are the very things that reconciliation wouldn’t be able to touch.
so drop the mandate and do single payer vs. Public Option vs. Medicare by-ins, do a CBO on each of them and punt for the goal of the best CBO report.
Well Happy Holidays to all of us. Barack Obama has just sold us down the river. It hurts — really hurts — to admit it, but this Chicago hustler has taken our good hearts and played us for complete suckers. Why do I feel like Tiger Woods’ wife?
This bill is worse than the status quo; it is an abomination. (Again I cannot easily express my disgust that the teabagger crackpots who called it an “Obamanation” apparently knew something that we did not.) $1000000000s to insurance companies courtesy of this smooth talking empty suited liar from Chicago.
KILL THIS TRAVEST OF A PAYOUT TO INSURANCE COMPANIES ***NOW***.