Remember when Blanche said she won’t vote for cloture on a bill with a public option? I guess she’s getting her way:
I will not allow my decision on this vote to be dictated by pressure from my political opponents, nor the liberal interest groups from outside Arkansas that threaten me with their money and their political opposition; the multitudes of e-mails and ads we have received, unbelievable types of threats about what they are going to do and how they are going to behave. The fact is, I am serious about changing our health care system, as most Arkansans and most Americans are. I am not with those who seek to avoid the debate, nor with those who use political attacks to achieve their narrow goals. I will vote in support of cloture on the motion to proceed to this bill.
But let me be perfectly clear. I am opposed to a new government-administered health care plan as a part of comprehensive health insurance reform, and I will not vote in favor of the proposal that has been introduced by Leader Reid as written. I, along with others, expect to have legitimate opportunities to influence the health care reform legislation that is voted on by the Senate later this year or early next year. I am also aware there will be additional procedural votes to move this process forward that will require 60 votes prior to conclusion of the floor debate. I have already alerted the leader and my colleagues that I am prepared to vote against moving to the next stage of consideration as long as a government-run public option is included. The public option, as a part of health insurance reform, has attracted far more attention than it deserves. While cost projections show that it may reduce costs somewhat, those projections don’t take into account who pays if it fails to live up to expectations. If, in fact, premiums don’t cover the cost of the public plan, it is taxpayers in this country who are faced with the burden of bailing it out.
Our colleagues cannot ignore the growth in the Federal Government since the year 2000. I can assure you that the American people have not ignored it. According to the American Institute for Economic Research, government spending grew by 55 percent under President Bush. As he was leaving office, government launched a massive bailout of Wall Street. Then it was the domestic auto manufacturing industry that needed taxpayer funds to survive. And finally, in order to revive a dying economy, it took a government economic recovery package to save or create hundreds of thousands of jobs. We can argue about the necessity of these unprecedented steps, but we need not argue about the impression they have made on the American people. We should be stopping the growth of government, not expanding it more. Without the public option, we could still force private insurance plans that participate in the exchanges to provide standard benefit packages that are easy to compare and more fairly priced. We will be bringing millions of new customers to the exchanges so insurers should be motivated to lower prices and be competitive.
On the same day that Blanche Lincoln said her opposition to a public option was so strong that she’d join a Republican filibuster against any bill that had one, her website still said she supported a public option (h/t Think Progress):
So despite the fact that the country wants a public option, the President campaigned on one and Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid both promised there would be one in the final bill, the woman who took $763,000 from health care interests for her upcoming Senate race is allowed to dictate what happens. And Obama gives his seal of approval, desperate for anything he can call a “win” in time for the State of the Union address.
What a hideous, rudderless mess.




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Give ‘em hell, Jane! This backroom dealing with crooked politicians that represent no one is a travesty. The interminable legislative process on this thing has been a fiasco, and now they’ve compromised by eliminating the only potentially popular part of the program. In order to try to buy the votes of a few 55-65 year olds? Really?
How is this better than reconciliation? How is this the very best bill we could’ve gotten under the circumstances? Where’s the attempt to seriously stage an up or down vote?
I hope Republicans vote with some of the liberals to put the public option back in just to spite this grand compromise.
“I am not with those who seek to avoid the debate, nor with those who use political attacks to achieve their narrow goals. I will vote in support of cloture on the motion to proceed to this bill.”
“narrow goals” NARROW GOALS 60% of Americans support the public option…SUPPORT
“I have already alerted the leader and my colleagues that I am prepared to vote against moving to the next stage of consideration as long as a government-run public option is included.’
Maybe Traitor Joe is coaching Lincoln how to run as an Independent.
So I guess Blance Lincoln skipped the Free Clinic just like Bill Clinton. Must not want the light shining on those in Arkansas without health care.
http://news.firedoglake.com/2009/11/20/president-clinton-chides-olbermann-for-making-arkansas-free-clinic-political/
Blanche ‘I will not allow my decision on this vote to be dictated by pressure from my political opponents, nor the liberal interest groups from outside Arkansas that threaten me with their money and their political opposition”
Very very clear who Blanche is/will allow her vote to be DICTATED by.
“We will be bringing millions of new customers to the exchanges so insurers should be motivated to lower prices and be competitive.”
Bingo she has made it so very clear who she will allow her vote to be DICTATED BY.
Wonder if we could get Wendell Potter to pay Blanche a visit>
hopelessly corrupt.
Thank you Jane for exposing the crooks and liars.
Jane you and Wendell as a team making an appointment with Blanche..ouch. I know how to dream.
So what’s the deal Jane? Are we to support the deal anyway?
You are wrong about obama, he’s a corporatist, through and through – we have bigger problems.
Kill this bill!
It increasingly feels like the Democrats are going to produce something so bizarrely baroque and arcane, both in terms of substance and procedure, that even Einstein would have a hard time figuring it out. Then they’ll order us to get behind it so they can have a win, any win.
If the final bill is no good, though, I say oppose it. Our loyalties should be to our principles, not the increasingly corrupt and useless Democratic Party.
Third party now!
She’s with us on everything but…
Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV) Slaps the Face of Democrats Who Want Real Health Care Reform:
She’s not rudderless, she’s being steered fairly adroitly.
I assume she’s going to be joined by Nelson and Lieberman? Is Landrieu behaving herself any better these days?
She is despicable. I can’t wait to donate money to her opposition.
Stick a fork in her she’s done. Along with Nelson, Landrieu, Lieberman and possibly Bayh.
They are all for sale IMO.
It’s looking more and more like the only real option left to progressives is making common cause with the Tea-Baggers.
I can’t imagine how we can bridge the information/ignorance gap, but neither can I imagine how we can move the Democratic party off the corporate tit.
“$763,000 from health care interests for her upcoming Senate race”
If you add in her PAC committee, she’s at something like $1.1 million. I suppose one would need a shower after just being in the same room with the likes of this bribee. You know, the purchase price of a senator may have gone up lately. The conventional wisdom from early shrubco was that one could be bought for about $500K.
You said it yourself “common cause”. Things in common.
The “can’t imagine how we can bridge the information/ognorance gap” is resolved by positive attitudeto wards other and talking to people face-to-face.
You’d be surprised how much there is in common.
I detest her but she is actually no worse than the rest of the for-sale Senators. I would like to see a list of how much money each Senator got from insurers and pharma. It might be very enlightening to all of us.
Blanche Lincoln is mighty vulnerable!
In the House, no one more than Jim Cooper (D-TN05) deserves to lose to a primary challenger who will represent the people of TN05 the way they want to be represented. And according to Daily Kos/Research 2000 polling, he’s got problems.
Still, Reid must be the symbol of this failure. He’s gotta go and be seen as having lost in disgrace because of this failure.
Her belief in Santa Claus should make this a very happy time of year for her.
What do folks here make of Dr. Dean’s remarks?
Dr. Dean called it a “positive step forward” that “makes a lot of sense” and described it as “what should have been done in the first place.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/12/09/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5948676.shtml
As you condemn Reid, Pelosi and Obama, it might be a good idea to review the history of health care reform over the last century. Here is an excellent starting point.
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/a_brief_history_universal_health_care_efforts_in_the_us.php?page=1
When the Clintons are campaigning for Blanche next time round, remember. Also remember the Clintons “support” for the public option after the election was limited to “Bill” Clinton meeting with the Dem caucus stating that anything is better than nothing. I have yet to hear one word from Bill Clinton otherwise.
Democratic red state folks int he senate killed the public option. So much for one person one vote. My small business pays in excess of 2k per month for a health plan covering one employer.
The democrats will probably be the minority party in both house and senate after 2010. That worked well under Clinton (NAFTA).
I just joined the new third party.I didn’t have a choice.They should call it the WE CARE PARTY.
The public option….an analogy:
Last January as a child your parents promise that if you are good they will get you a puppy for Christmas. Now you come to find out they are debating over whether to get you a plastic toy puppy or a cheap coloring book of puppies.
Same with healthcare. The Democrats running for the White House and Congress in 2008 promised that if you were good and voted for them they would get you one or another rendition of medicare for all by Christmas. Now you come to find out that only 2% of you would qualify for a program that would not even commense until the year 2014….if the powers that be don’t decide to opt out altogether. Also, they are now debating whether they can scrap even that for some equally illusory “alternative”.
Fortunately, in this “democratic” charade, next election you can vote Bob Cratchit out of office and vote Ebenezer Scrooge back in.
Seriously, we’re not grasping the severity of the problems this Country is up against with a Free Trade, Free Markets, Hamilton Project President Obama, and comparatively underpaid Congress critters being offered multimillion dollar post ‘public service’ Corporate job security and, or huge campaign contributions to maintain or reenforce the status quo.
American public has to become visible. Perhaps Greece could be viewed as this point as a (partially) object lesson in movement building and expression.
“the liberal interest groups from outside Arkansas that threaten me with their money and their political opposition”
Sounds like a talking point straight out of Fox News…
Hey Blanche. You might oughta start lookin’ for another gig…
I’m sorry to say this, but it looks like Dean’s just happy because he’s hailed as having proposed something similar – extending medicare – back in ’04.
The fact is that this is not really what he had in mind in ’04.
It’s far less.
Agree with you on Cooper. I think Jane is going to compile a list for us at some point.
How did I forget to put Reid on the list?? TY for adding him. I blame him for not using reconciliation on the public option. He could have passed everything else in a bill and used reconciliation for the public option.
We just need to change a few Senators and House members to make a difference.
They
may beare for sale, but they are hardly done with us.Something like eight Republicans are lined up and in the race to defeat her…. not one Dem or even a Green have officially declared. Time is running out.
And there’s this:
It’s time then
Announce her primary, and announce our intent to kill the bill.
We’re beyond the point of recovering anything but a gift to private insurance. There is nothing, not a single shred of anything worthwhile in these bills anymore.
We may fail, we probably will fail, but at least we’ll be clean.
We’ve got to take Lincoln out. This will send a message to Nelson, Landrieu and Lieberman. They run in 2012.
Reminiscent of Gov. Orval Faubus complaining of “outside agitators” pushing for school integration in Little Rock.
Liberal interest groups from outside Arkansas. Isn’t that just precious. She’s invoking the outside agitators meme from the civil rights battles of the 1960s.
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen polls showing a slight majority of Arkansans, and a definite majority of Arkansas Dems, want a public option. So. To translate the Lincolnese into English: The people who pad my pockets don’t want a PO so screw the people who elected me.
Reid must be the symbol of Congress’ failure to realize real health care reform and we must make sure that he is seen as having paid dearly for his complete failure of leadership when he loses next November.
He’s weak as it is and, when he loses, it must be seen as having been the result of his great betrayal.
Would someone remind me what the definitions of Fascism is.
The problem is that people in the south feel that way. They don’t like to be told who they should vote for and many will vote for her just because “outsiders” don’t want them to. It’s a bit tricky down there.
The more of these rodents masquerading as populist Democrats that can be exposed and attacked during party primaries, the better. It seems likely that the only hope for viable reform in the US is first purging one of the political parties of all the corrupt, sold-out officials and apparatchiks, then using that party to achieve reform. If this takes 10 years then that is better than 10 more years of voting Democrat only to have knives start sprouting from our backs.
Agreed, much more important than lincoln, in part because it’s almost a shoe in – we just need to do our smoke and mirror shit and make sure we take credit and ownership for his defeat.
Jane/all just heard this on Amy Goodmans live broadcast from Copenhagen
http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2009/12/08-8
Medicare for All: Sit-Ins & Protests at Senators’ Offices in 19 Cities
Angry Citizens Vow to Sit-In at Senators’ Offices for Medicare for All
Demand Passage of Sen. Sanders’ Single-Payer Amendment
WASHINGTON – December 8 – Declaring health care to be a human right, hundreds of advocates for a single-payer, Medicare-for-All health program will protest at senators’ offices around the country on Dec. 10, International Human Rights Day. Many will risk arrest by committing acts of civil disobedience.
Looking to see if Little Rock Arkansas is one the list. Where is Lincolns senate office in Arkansas?
For weeks folks here have been celebrating Dr. Dean and Senator Sanders as informed champions in this fight.
Now, we chose to ignore their opinion on this new development? Interesting.
Thanks Jane, your motivation is very helpful. Even if this is a huge mess it is par for the course, the only difference being that people are now more informed and motivated.
This woman is her own best recruiter for those that despise her. Be assured that I will continue to contribute to her defeat next year. That is a campaign we should all engage in.
Please tell me again where to send opposition funds and how the effort to recruit a primary challenger to her is coming along. Just as she says she will not be swayed by people that oppose her, neither will we.
Dr Dean is a paid consultant for McKenna Long Aldrich, a firm representing Bio_PhRma, among other healthcare related interests. the patent extensions they sought (and he advocated in an Op Ed) are still in both bills – an inconvenient truth, but colors his take
Mornin’ All
I think credit should go to the millions of Americans who were right to see a public option as the key to real health care reform, or at least a minimum for real reform.
I think the credit should go to Nevadans who recognize that Reid can’t lead.
The election’s in Nov 10. Best get cracking on building that nationally viable third party.
I agree, take Lincoln out, in the general if not in the primary.
If need be, vote for and elect a Republican (for one term), to establish an object lesson for all bad Dems.
I wrote about this in Randy Shaw Would Have Been Right, a Year Ago (12/7/09).
I think a persuasive case against Obama as anything other than a Corporatist lackey may want to be created as perhaps a Diary to disseminate to the Obamabots. We’ll need to convert them to the starkly disastrous reality because we’ll need everyone, including T-baggers to push back on the ‘Free’ Marketeers.
Anything happening in Los Angeles?
Bring your own media to record the events!
I think it’s a rolling opinion based on the content of what they say. I don’t notice anyone here holding up heros regardless of their utterances.
check it out
http://mobilizeforhealthcare.org/2009/12/03/day-of-action-human-rights-day-dec-10th/
I got an email from John Kerry saying that Democrats need to “help Martha [Coakley] bring her strong progressive voice to Washington.”
Thoughts?
Right. It’s not a good time now. And it never will be, right?
Great catch!
Don’t trust anything even resembling official pronouncements! The opposite will more than likely and in most cases be true. Always bet against them!
Don’t see Arkansas on the list. Who knows who in Arkansas. Where is LIncoln’s office down there.
Who put that free clinic together in Little Rock
http://mobilizeforhealthcare.org/upcoming-actions/
Dr Dean held that position during he time he was celebrated here for opposing the Reid’s initial offering.
So, isn’t it possible that Dr. Dean actually believes this is a decent proposal?
And, what is your explanation for Seantor Sanders?
firedoga can track Big Insurance’s market performance today here scroll down to click on another company
all but Cigna are currently up 1/3 to 1/2 a point right now.
I think the credit needs to be absorbed by a ‘sack the Fuck’ progressive movement to claw back democracy!
I had a take on Dean’s position @ 27.
Fuck John Kerry!
Parse her language, dig through her background.
Sanders was shut out of the room. Reid’s fault.
I do not agree with the dominant thrust here that this compromise has nothing to recommend it. It is what it is – a compromise. This is certainly colored by my personal situation. As a 57-year old guy hanging onto what is undoubtedly his last job in IT with a wife who has an inoperable but not aggressively growing brain tumor, the Medicare buy-in is certainly of some value to me, and many others. We won’t be able to kill it and probably shouldn’t.
It isn’t enough, of course. We should have been able to do better. It sucks that we couldn’t.
The question ought to be how to get beyond this. Primarying Blanche Lincoln is one part of a solution that I can agree with. I’m a little less sanguine about Jane’s recent post that seems to envision primary challenges to liberal Dems who weren’t sufficiently strong in defending the Public Option.
While it’s certainly been educational and edifying to see how corrupt our Democratic Party is, we shouldn’t lose sight of the Republicans. The united front that the GOP was able to maintain behind their idiocy also enabled the Blanche Lincolns of the world. What bothers me is the apparent lack of ANY effort to punish ANY Republican for their truculent, and moronic opposition to any reform effort. Surely, in the vast swath of purple-to-red America there are at least one or two Republicans who are sufficiently vulnerable to being roughed up by a truly populist Democrat. That kind of quixotic effort seems far more valuable to me than a quixotic effort to unseat some insufficiently tough Democratic liberals.
Anthony Weiner likes it… and given that Dean campaigned on this approach, it’s obvious that whomever he’s working for is not influencing his opinion. Give me a break… this is the approach Dean took in VT 15 years ago.
And for the record, I think this option is much better than the flacid, barely with a pulse option that remained in the Senate bill.
It is an expansion of the current public option that exists, and apparently, will include an FEHP run plan.
I think in the end, this is a win… and altho not perfect… I feel much better about it than I did last week.
I so deeply admire Harry Reid’s ability to achieve a compromise that empowers so-called “centrist” Democrats that I’ve crafted a compromise of my own.
I will…
…support and vote for Democrats who held the line on critical issues,
…send money to primary challengers of Lincoln, Landrieu, Nelson, Conrad, and above all, Lieberman
…enjoy watching Harry stew in his own juice in Nevada,
…work for anyone who challenges Obama in 2012,
…support and work for any viable third-party effort that emerges.
But I will not support or vote for Republicans.
I can’t think of a more stinging and convincing indictment of our anti-democratic and pro-corporatist Democratic Party than the past eleven month crap sandwich we’ve been forced to eat every damn stinking day since Obama kicked off his presidency by lying when he was sworn in as the 44th President of the United States.
I agree with Watt4Bob’s comment,
Until we figure out how to break down the barriers and establish a dialogue, nothing will change. Not an impossible task since the left and the right are suffering the same destabilizing economic consequences due to Obama and the corporatist neocon-loving and free-market stooges who call themselves democrats.
not sure Lieberman plans to run again.
it is possible. just think it should be pointed out he has “skin in the game”
I saw Senator Sanders do an incredibly delicate dance around this last night. I don’t disagree with him that there may be some real reforms in this bill – but he also qualified that with a proviso on waiting to see if there’s any real teeth in said reforms
and like many here – this fight wasn’t just about Healthcare or Reform for me, this was a referendum on whether we the people have a say or not, more importantly whether we were listened to or not
No. It isn’t. It’s far, far less and will accomplish little to next-to-nothing. Not real reform.
Not an imperfect win. Not a win at all.
This is the inevitable endgame to this whole sorry affair. The only question is if there are any Senators or House members who will stand up in sufficient numbers to kill this thing. Or will they act as they usually do and cave in the end? As we have been saying for months, there will either be no public option or it will be so stripped down and twisted about not to be one to all intents and purposes.
The soon to be ex-Sen. Lincoln left out one group that she won’t allow to dictate to or pressure her regarding the legislation she will support: the voters in her constituency. She is selling them up the river as surely as any river boat gambler or carpetbagger. She is a disgrace to representative Democracy.
Her fellow citizens of Arkansas should speed the unemployment of public servant Blanche Lincoln (D-Walmart). Without her fully paid, full dollar Congresscritter health insurance, she might have to find insurance in the market she deems good enough for her constituents.
I don’t want this bill to pass because I don’t want the useless Democrats to have anything to declare a victory. Honestly, this is no victory to anyone but the minority party and their Blue Dog allies.
Lets start laying the groundwork for an effective progressive block who will work for single payer. It will take another generation, but it is the only viable way forward.
I share the frustration of folks who wish for a Progressive party separate from the Democrats. It’s a pipe dream though.
unfortunately, I think the national third party concept is a complete chimera – and darn near impossible. What we need to do is reclaim the Democratic Party and toss the conservadems out of office. Let the Baucus-Byah-Nelson gang try to do the impossible (thanks to decades of diligent effort by the corrupt to develop a campaign financing architecture and gerrymandering system that makes a truely competitive third party about as likely as Lincoln toeing the progressive line), and try to start their own party. Maybe then can call it the National Syndicalist Party or something.
The Blue Dog crony capitalists and the DLC Democratic leadership that welcomed them into the party may be a lot of things—but fascists?
I don’t think so.
The racist, fiercely nationalistic fasicst mentality is still over on the right. That’s BeckWorld territory.
The Democratic Party can still be ndged/tugged/shoved in a more progressive direction. The reactionary Republicans cannot.
Most Democratic corporatists are just in it for the money. The fascists are in it for far more horrific motives than that.
yes, i received that too. i laughed at it.
didn’t delete it though: i wanna rub it in the face of the true believers.
Are we allowed to critize Obama and the dems now? I hope the mocked critics (who were right) return, thanks to those who stuck to their beliefs during the euphoria.
What I don’t understand is what happens to the folks between 0-54 without health care?
Dean did say the 55-64 medicare access needs to start on day 1
They’ll cave.
The trick now is to make sure that the key players in fucking the country – Reid, Lincoln, Cooper (D-TN05) – pay in the primaries and midterms next year and that they’re seen as having paid dearly for betraying core Democratic Party principles.
The sadest part is that you know if they were Repubs they would find a way to get it done.
My best guess is that odds are about nine to one in favor of a cave. I only include the one because I’m an optimist, there is no modern historic precedent.
I’d really like to see a system where the Democratic party is forced to caucus with either a very strong progressive block within the party or a very strong progressive third party. The point is to empower progressives regardless of whether there are two or more parties.
Right there with you. A prancing Obama speechifying obout a less then perfect but important win for the people would be unbearable.
I have been critical of Dean’s role in this healthcare debate from the start. He has said that he favors multiple payers (i.e. the current system) over single payer. Yet he also tried to sell a public option as Medicare for All (when it clearly wasn’t) and essentially equivalent to single payer. These are positions that are deeply and obviously contradictory.
Drive them from office…. into a 6- or 7-figure job?
Why is it a pipe dream for progressives but not T-baggers.
Unless a Teabagger party launched simultaneously the Progressive party would either fail miserably or cede all the power to Republicans (not that it would be much of a change). For the time being I think the only viable course is to continue trying to get more (genuinely) progressive Dems elected.
Bob Dylan summed up the mentality of the Southern working class rather well in song. In fact it summed up rather well the way the ruling class in America has always duped so many on Main Street into going along with their own exploitation:
Only A Pawn In Their Game
A bullet from the back of a bush took Medgar Evers’ blood.
A finger fired the trigger to his name.
A handle hid out in the dark
A hand set the spark
Two eyes took the aim
Behind a man’s brain
But he can’t be blamed
He’s only a pawn in their game.
A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
“You got more than the blacks, don’t complain.
You’re better than them, you been born with white skin,” they explain.
And the Negro’s name
Is used it is plain
For the politician’s gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game.
The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid,
And the marshals and cops get the same,
But the poor white man’s used in the hands of them all like a tool.
He’s taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
‘Bout the shape that he’s in
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game.
From the poverty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks,
And the hoof beats pound in his brain.
And he’s taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide ‘neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain’t got no name
But it ain’t him to blame
He’s only a pawn in their game.
Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught.
They lowered him down as a king.
But when the shadowy sun sets on the one
That fired the gun
He’ll see by his grave
On the stone that remains
Carved next to his name
His epitaph plain:
Only a pawn in their game.
I wouldn’t make the proposal if I didn’t think it could be done, it’s just hard to imagine we have enough energy and humility to engage face to face.
I did see Senator Al Franken set a brilliant example in his conversation with a hostile constituent at the Minnesota State Fair last summer, but my take away at the time was frustration at the obvious gap between the number of humble and empathic progressive legislators we have to patiently explain the issues surrounding HCR.
My opinion has been changing, I now see it’s obvious we have no other choice, it’s either buckle-down and do the hard work of engagment, or watch all that populist energy be co-opted by the same folks who have bought off our government.
We can’t wait forever and the other side has been hard at work.
Those who sneered at criticism of Obama will never accept criticism of Obama.
The Mobilization for Healthcare for All, which is organizing these actions, has a link for contacting Senators on including single-payer language in the final health reform bill.
For what it’s worth, here’s my reworking of their boilerplate letter. As was true for the House deliberations, I believe that single-payer groups have been placing insufficient emphasis on restoring state single-payer language (eg, the Kucinich Amendment) and focusing inordinately on symbolic, quixotic national single-payer amendments, such as the Weiner substition and now Bernie Sanders’s amendment 2839. For that reason, I led with the state language.
(Note: Both my NY Senators have claimed to favor single payer “in principle.”)
absolutely.
he’s a horrible democrat, and i want him challenged from the left.
although just hanging the corrupt motherfucker out to dry and giving him no help at all agaisnt the GOp would be fun too.
Oh, and let’s ruin his kid’s shot at the governor’s seat.
well as Senator Sanders pointed out last night
sign ups can begin 6/10. coverage would commence 1/11 – If, as the senator pointed out, folks can afford it. from what I’ve seen in my morning surfing, $600/mo is being bandied about by the we-like-us-some Ezra crowd, though not Ezra himself. – something this 56 yo could not afford
I posted it in comments here and at circleparkforum as my little way of rubbing it in, though I do intend to limit my criticism of Obama to his failure to lead on health care for reasons I’ve explained in Progressive Memo: Focus on Winning Elections (Dec 6, 2009).
This. in my mind is, in equal measure, a fight both for Health Care and against the power of Corporate Greed sheisters.
We are experiencing the “more Dem” results right now… and it takes a microscope to find a worthy difference from a Republican majority. Making excuses for this nightmare is at very best self defeating.
If Democrats lose… while they absolutely ignored or outright belittled and robbed their base… then so be it. In fact, how can I help.. is my only question? Without ardent fights from the very folks who said they are on our side… we are less than useless if we don’t hold them accountable above all others.
Let the big money Dems take on Republicans for now… grassroots should definitely focus on party/caucus discipline, imo.
p.s. not a peep from HCAN, MoveOn, or AFL-CIO yet – anyone heard anything ?
Of course I still harbor the stupid false hope that they will turn it around and do something like MediCare for all (saves lots of money, etc).
I assume what they have been told is either:
– mess with healthcare and we destroy the economy
or
– mess with healthcare and the many employees pushing paper to make money for their bosses in HC will all lose their jobs for Xmas.
Correct me if I have this wrong but it is only a small subset of the 55-64 who would be eligible for this program, those who fall in this age group and have no insurance or are unemployed.
Rassmussen has a poll out (no linky) where T-bagger ‘party’ (generic) is outperforming the Rep. Party.
That is what Jane seems to be thinking as well. I suck at strategy, so I will be following Jane’s lead.
You can start your revolution to overturn our system as you please.
I just want them to lose their seats in Congress and to be seen as having lost because they betrayed the interests of the people of this country.
I’ll have to leave others to worry about where they go from there.
Agree. Why should we give up our party to the lowest people in the Congress? I won’t. A third party hasn’t a chance AT THIS TIME. It’s possible in the future but not now. We need to take our party back for the well paid “elites.”
I wouldn’t worry too much about them celebrating a victory.
Unless, of course, I’m the only one here who means what he says when he says he’s NOT voting for corporatist Democrats next time and is NOT voting for Obama next time.
If I am the only one that means that, well, then, I guess they will celebrate. Knowing they can keep their corporate masters pleased and still get progressive voters to vote for them is well worth celebrating, don’t you think?
I don’t think the recent skirmish in upstate NY signaled the emergence of a teabagger party, it was simply intended to send a message to the GOP that they better continue to kiss the social conservatives’ ass.
Exaclty!
Ratfood is right about splitting the vote and diluting the power of the R or D party. The point is really to gain more progressive power. How can we do that?
Get with it already! Try at least, damn!
GOP Trails Teabagger Party In New Poll
http://airamerica.com/politics/12-07-2009/gop-trails-poll-teabaggers/
I wouldn’t be surprised if Holy Joe is already picking out his office furniture for the cushy new gig working for Aetna (or the like).
Holy Joe sez, “Aetna, I’m glad I metya…”
What we need to do is use the Democratic primary machinery to get on the ballot and then use it to knock off corporatist incumbents. Running on a populist platform attacking them for their support of banksters and insurance companies and not ordinary Americans would be a powerful campaign message. The problem is until we start doing this the argument that “this” has never been done will hold true by simple default.
Well, here’s an idea.
When the Democrats run a corporatist, make sure he/she loses (even if it’s to a Republican). When the Democrats run a progressive, make sure he/she wins.
Now, after a few cycles of that, which kind of candidate do you think the Democratic Party is more likely to field?
We’re all frustrated and angry about the same thing, it’s just that we don’t realize that yet.
There’s been a lot of $ invested in keeping us apart, and the folks doing the investment would love to have us at each-other’s throats.
We have to find a way to turn the tide before we all end up homeless and arguing around a campfire.
Let’s talk to the Tea-Baggers now, while we still have part of a country left to talk about.
I wouldn’t worry too much about them celebrating a victory.
Remember the “Heck of a Job, Brownie” (or whatever the quote was) presser? The jerk in power danced a jig while everyone in the country watched in utter, jaw-dropping disbelief at their incompetence?
We are there again.
I am NOT arguing for “more Dems”. Losing Lincoln, Nelson, etc. to the Republicans would be no loss at all. So nothing is to be gained by not primarying them. That’s why I support this.
But when we move to talk about “playing offense” – which both primarying the Pelosis and Schakowskys, as well as working for kamikaze progressive Dem candidates going after currently Republican seats might be said to be – the latter seems to be much more valuable to me.
If we let the national Dems handle the job of finding candidates to run against these Republicans the result will be more Blanche Lincolns. If you want to go all Don Quixote, progressives also have to target the Republican wall. Make these bastards play defense too.
We need to start now carefully following what the people in Congress do and how they vote. For many 2010 is too soon for us to do anything about them, but the goal should be 2012. Since that is a presidential year more people will vote, will be interested in politics and we might be able to finish the careers of quite a few. Not saying we should ignore 2010 – just that we have less time and should focus on the really bad ones.
I’m for that.
So, since everything I predicted has come true (in spades!), do I get taken off the moderation list?
Second that, because the schism at work is not along a horizontal left/right axis, but the vertical upstairs/downstairs one.
Are you asking Jane to take the pledge?
Her is an under reported provision of the deal struck last night.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091209/ap_on_bi_ge/us_health_care_overhaul
Perhaps, it would be wise to take some time to learn more about this deal before savaging it. And, of course, the same would be true in terms of celebrating it.
Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) released a statement today on the Senate Democrats’ tentative compromise, saying he opposes the triggered public option until he sees the CBO analysis
♪me,♫ me,♪ me,♫ me,♪me ♫ me,♪ meeeeeee !
I dont understand this whole argument “Because you all liked what you heard from Sanders, Dean, Weiner, Sherrod Brown, etc, that when they turn around and try to sell you a final product that doesnt reflect any of that rhetoric, you are not allowed to critize it because you supported the original rhetoric.”
If the final product bears no resemblance to the rhetoric folks were supporting, ofcourse they are going to argue against it. They were not initially argueing how great any of these people were (for the most part), they were commenting on and supporting the positions they were espousing.
It seems like the establishment trots out “liberal progressives” to feed us all the lines we support. We come to think that these “liberal progressives” actually support those positions. So then when they sell us out, and that appears exactly what folks like Sanders, Brown, Dean, and Weiner are doing,, they can point back to their old comments to give credibilty to the sell out.
It will sound something like this:
“Well Keith, as you know I have been on your show repeatedly fighting for the American People. So you know I wouldnt support anything that wouldnt make healthcare more affordable and accessible. And I stand by this, so then you know its a good deal for the american people. Its not everything I wanted, but we cant let the perfect be the enemy of the good.”
Even though what they are finally selling us isnt good at all for the american people. And the kabuki rolls on…
That’s funny. Gave me a good laugh.
I heard that it was only 55-64 year-olds who made 150% or less of the federal poverty line and who are not already covered by, eg, Medicaid, and who have the funds to pay unsubsidized rates.
Typical of Obama, that’s an option without the ability to use it. More than an empty suit, Mr. Obama is aggressively anti-reform, while campaigning on reform. That’s Democratic cynicism of Rovian proportions.
Recent history suggests they will wrongly conclude they need to mimic the opposing party and move further to the right.
IIRC, politicians taking this civics test tend to score 5 points below the already low national average, so you’re not talking about the brightest demographic around. They excel at shameless self promotion and nothing else.
Yeah, yeah…read that over at Big Orange this morning. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
There isn’t enough good in this bill, IMO, to vote for it.
Yep, true. And we have way more in common with the teabaggers than they would like to admit.
However, they’ve become so programmed to HATE Democrat/progressive/liberal/leftist/etc. that I believe no matter the language or the words, they’re unreachable.
Would love to be as wrong about that as I am other things, but man they’ve got an anti-left bigotry so built in I think it would be like trying to convince a true believer into switching religions. Very, very hard, if not impossible to do. Because facts and reason mean nothing, it’s their BELIEF that Democrats/liberals/progressives are bad. The R media machine has successfully used their ownership of the airwaves to accomplish this over time. And it won’t be unaccomplished easily.
requiring that 90 percent of premium dollars be spent on medical benefits…
These fucks, if there are no other price controlls would just keep on raising premiums!
The mandate sucks, big time!
We’ll still be paying twie what the rest of the world is paying for better outcomes!
bingo!!!
Do the members of Congress even know what the bill says? They don’t sound as if they do. Why not? They are going to have to vote on it. Did the “gang” (I hate that term) keep the whole thing secret?
Looks to me that if we aren’t able to find a real primary candidate to challenge her we need to get some public spirited progressive to run as a Green or a member of the Progressive Party to give folks something positive to vote for. A Republican in that seat won’t be much worse than her.
Most will settle for reading a summary (if that).
Somtimes being the smartest person in the room involves something more than having the biggest mouth. Over the last few months, the healthcare bill, Democrats and Obama have been pick apart (at times, rightfully so). Folks like Scarborough have been all too willing to give publicity to the criticisms of people like Jane and Arianna in that they give credibility to his attacks on Obama.
It appears that the Senate has finally arrived at a formula for healthcare which while not perfert is a quantum leap forward combining 3 elements (1) legislation to stop bad practices by health insurance companies (e.g., denial of policies on the basis of pre-existing conditions, recission, etc.), (2) allowing people 55 and older to buy into medicare, a gigantic step forward, and (3) allowing the government to create a pool to bargain for health insurance for those in the so-called exchange. These are substantive and important changes that will provide real health insurance for most Americans.
While I’m sure there will be elements that are not perfect, why not show a little leadership and get behind this legislation? The Republicans are offering nothing. The only chance to move forward is get behind the Democrats. This most recent proposal is far better than the proposals that have previously been made and seems to have a realistic chance to pass. Why not help?
Well, two sides to a coin I guess.
Recent history tells me (since at least Clinton), that since the Democrats know they can count on the progressive voters, they are free to run corporatist/centrists.
I believe they’ve received that message loud and clear. I guess I believe if they started getting the other message I suggested, they would eventually start receiving that one loud and clear too. IMO. YMMV.
Senator Blanche Lincoln: you’re not the Blanche that was married to Fred on I Love Lucy. You are just a worthless lying tool of private insurance corporations. How pathetic. Get a life.
O/T:
The Palinestas, the birthers, the deathers, the speechers, the denialists, the sexual tyrants (“rite to Life”) and the teabaggers all live in their own demented world. Their connection to the real world, the natural world has long since been severed. Our only task is to ensure that they do not use Diebold and the rest of the electronic vote counting machines to steal our democracy again the way the Republicans and the Bush gangsters did in 2000, 2002 and 2004. Hand-counted paper ballots in all American elections is the way to go. Results won’t be available in 0.03 mirco-seconds after the polls close, but I’d rather wait a few hours instead of having more electronically-rigged elections.
We do it, by demanding House Progressives kill this bill with Republicans… and then make sure progressives are waving very simple reasons why with our solutions… while using the Grayson memes that Republicans want you to die quickly.
Finally, a discussion of something I know about.
Fred was married to Ethel, not Blanche.
Yeah. Heck of a job, Democrats!
Would you mind if I borrow your little ditty so long as I cite you and link to this comment?
Do you mean this pledge:
??
Like I said, if ya want a viable third party ya gotta build the thing before ya can make any difference. I’m all for a third party and support the Greens in my local elections but they rarely run anybody.
An object lesson for whom? The bad dems?
What about the actual existential object lessons that will be visited upon the actual existential people who will have to endure the actual existential reality of the actual existential Republican policies?
Being pissed off at the psuedo Democrats [or at the extent to which the Democratic Party leadership pretends to be progressive on economic and foreign policy issues but is not] is certainly legitimate. I know I am. But “punishing” folks for electing them by allowing them to elect Republicans instead won’t magically sow the seeds for the dawning of a new enlightened age of the Progressive Party. Where in the world are the signs this is even remotely possible?
The only viable option is to be practical and realistic. You work hard in the primaries to bring more progressive Democrats into the party. You work outside the two party system to bring more working and middle class voters together to bring pressure from below.
But work in a way so as to bring more BeckWorld Republicans into office?!!
I say not in a million years.
Hard to do that if Grayson himself isn’t going to do that.
Your lack of civility grows more and more tiresome.
have at it, I’m sure I’m not the first :D
They have a 258 majority in the House and a supermajority in the Senate, and the DCCC yesterday had the nerve to ask Rep. Frank to send out an email asking for money. For what?
The message from the pathetic Democratic Party House leadership is now:
This sort of sheepish obedience is what Corporatists love about the Democrats.
How about you read a couple things and come back to chat afterwards, eh?
http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/13/the-hamilton-project-same-corporatist-whine-in-new-dlc-vessels/
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney12082009.html
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/17981
There are no price controls in the bill. If there were, we would be hearing about it from the Insurance Cartels.
And often the problem is not that Insurance Cartels wont offer you insurance for a pre-existing condition, its that they charge you such an absurd premium they may as well be denying you altogether.
A person I work with just married a guy with Diabetes. He is a young (early 30s), healthy man otherwise. They dont deny him insurance, they just set the premiums at $1600 a month!
Combine that with a mandate with penalties, and I shudder to think what will happen to them. Will they be broken financially because of the insane premiums they will now be FORCED to pay, or will the fines and/or criminal charges from not being able to pay those crazy premiums get them instead?
If its that bill or nothing, I would vote for nothing.
Ah, but the mere issuance of policies does not mean that they will guarantee access to care, or that the receivers of care will not themselves end up in receivership. 83% of medical bankruptcies, remember, are filed by people with insurance.
All of them? Or just those who can’t afford it?
Will that make the personal mandates OK?
First of all, the second of the three you’ve mentioned is overstated. The number of people eligible to enroll will probably be less than a million.
Secondly, you’ve listed the positives, and nobody is arguing having the bad practices of insurance companies ended is a bad thing. In fact, you left out another plus, it will lead to more people with coverage (although the coverage won’t be much), but it will be more than they have now.
However, you’ve left out the negatives. When weighing whether or not to support something shouldn’t you consider both? The biggest, and most damning negative, is the individual mandate WITHOUT a public option. So, we’ve forced them to stop their bad practices, only to ensure for them that we have to keep purchasing their product no matter how high the costs (and the costs will go up now that they have to cover things and people they didn’t cover before), and thus ensured their even better profitability.
An individual mandate is bad enough IMO, without a public option to give folks a choice to give their money to the government rather than these murdering companies is unacceptable.
Next negative is The Stupid Amendment. I don’t see the final bill not having some form of The Stupid Amendment in it. I suppose there are some that say that’s a price worth paying for reform, I, however am not one of them.
And finally, the kicker, for me, is that this lack of public option forcing downward pressure on premiums, as well as the weak “minimum” insurance that a lot of folks are going to get, means that we won’t have solved the “health care crisis” in terms of costs at all, AND, medical bankruptcies and deaths will still occur due to the weak minimums, AND because we’ve just passed “health care reform” it won’t be up for debate for at least another generation, then I’m convinced the negatives outweigh the positives, and therefore support any Progressive, Blue Dog, or Republican that wants to kill this bill.
My opinions. YMMV.
Then don’t tell them who to vote for, just give them facts about how she’s screwing them and not voting for what they want, but what New York Wall Streeters want. She isn’t one of them because they can’t pay her enough.
Dictum:
Be a follower if you want to be a leader…
I call that puke, drivel, choose your description
Not quite as bad as the Republicans is hardly a selling point. It is right up there with better than doing nothing at all.
Sign FDL petition:
Should have withheld our money and support of his fundraising for his slogan (unless he voted against the bill). Until we can make Grayson and the rest of the House progressives do this… we have no business toying around in other arenas, imo.
We have a lot to learn from the Republican base who is feared by everyone.
That’s the way it needs to be done. It’s a rather strange situation in the south – they can and do bad-mouth their own but don’t like others to do that.
Show them what you think with your bodies tomorrow.
http://mobilizeforhealthcare.org/2009/12/03/day-of-action-human-rights-day-dec-10th/
Our loyalties should be to those Americans in need of healthcare.
amen
Honest question:
Would you all be talking about the same Teabaggers who are a corporate construct paid for by corporate funding and whose purpose for existence is to spew corporate propaganda?
I think you are spot on. But Jane, Jason, Jon, Dave or at News Desk would be more than likely able to answer that question
Jon Walker has a fresh cross-post already in progress: “The Public Option “Deal” That Does Not Sound Like It Is Even A Deal Yet”
Oh, I don’t think this is going to die if the bill is passed. Too many people being shafted.
1]
from what I understand of the new legislation, insurance companies, while not being able to deny coverge for pre-existing conditiions will be able to charge a lot more for that coverage—effectively excluding these patients anyway. True or not?
2]
medicare expansion is “progressive” only to the extent it either does or does not place huge restrictions on those who qualify for it. True or not?
3]
the creation of this “pool” is progressive only to the extent the devil in the details are not dictated by the needs of the insurance industry. True or not?
That sounds like an incentive for insurers to support higher medical costs to raise their own percentage. I can’t imagine an attempt to restrain insurers by trying to legislate every little thing they can or can’t do actually working. They spend more on their lawyers and accountants. They need a strong, fair priced competitor like a good public option. With that we could let them do whatever they want, screwing their customers would only drive them away.
Seconded.
Tell that to Myles Horton, one of the great union organizers of the 30s and 40s and founder of the Highlander School. Never heard of the Highlander School? Look it up.
Hard to tell, but I doubt that Congresspersons can tell either. Point is that Fascist tendencies are real and have almost completely overwhelmed democratic instincts. Liberal/progressives certainly would not garner any support from T-baggers during the reign of Republican Corporatocracy, but the populist outrage is palpable and any such show of discontent numbers matter!
Taking merely the reality of class warfare into account, they and us can agree and augment our respective voices of deep displeasure.
I raise the GS gun acquisitions to point out that the perpetrators of the Ponzi schemes are fearful of any signs of popular backlash.
linky up, please. I’d appreciate.
I’m with you there. I’ve emailed my two Senators again, after calling both offices this morning.
No need to bother with my rep. He’s an R. I know he’s voting no. Both my Senators are corportist D’s though, and since the insurance industry no doubt loves this bill, they will probably fall in line and support it. I’m giving ‘em my two cents worth though and urging them to vote against!
Highlander Research and Education Center, formerly known as the Highlander School. Any other research you need help with? Google and Yahoo both have instructions on how to use a search engine.
Learn from the Republican base? Learn what? How to put blinders on that prevent you from seeing anything you don’t want to see? How to shamelessly assert loudly today what yesterday you condemned, intellectual honesty be damned? How to get millions from the Club for Growth? Good luck.
If there’s no essential difference between Blanche Lincoln and a Republican – a proposition I agree with – then we should be as ready to fight Republicans where feasible as we evidently are to fight Lincoln.
Yes, indeed, and thanks for offering your assistance!
“why not show a little leadership and get behind this legislation?”
How does getting behind a lousy Corporations written bill, fit into the Highlander Schools teachings?
I agree. Even if they can only get a vote put off until next year. That would be enough time to have a good look at the bill and expose it as a piece of crap, if that is indeed what it is. I’d love for there to be enough time to show people (myself included) meaningful comparisons of this with a good public plan.
Q: What are those things called, mounted on the wall to the right of the Speaker’s chair in the US House of Representatives?
A: Those are fasces.
Well, by putting off it’s start date for five years, they’ve ensured no real debate for that long. They’ll always answer “We just reformed health care, let’s give that a chance first. It hasn’t even kicked all the way in yet.”
Nah, I believe it’ll push real reform down the road another 20 years or so.
As to GS arming… I wonder if that Obama et al are actually maintaining an elevated level of fear in that regard in order to try and keep the corporations in line and contributing…
… all the while smugly believing that they have the populace in hand and completely underestimating the situation they are dealing with.
I was commenting on your follower/leader comment. I have no intention of playing ring around the rosie with you.
and what was my follower/leader comment in reference to, if not:
““why not show a little leadership and get behind this legislation?”
Go back to the original @ 147 it clearely references 133.
No games other then your bile.
Rather it should be “Thanks, Barak Obama!” Blaming Lieberman, Lincoln, etc is just what Obama wants to have happen so that he can sellout the public while others take the blame. Go to OpenSecrets and the healthcare take that Obama has makes Lincoln’s look like small potatoes. This sellout to corporate healthcare interests was all arranged months ago behind closed doors with PhRMA and others and Obama has just been trying over and over again to deliver for them (remember the “sliver” comment along things like “left of the left,” etc?). The deal Obama made was to at most have a toothless public option to attempt to fool the masses while giving them such things as turning all of us into serfs who must buy their product with the IRS serving as the muscle for the insurance companies…and it looks like Obama is delivering on his backroom dealings while others take the heat.
With simple steadfast principles… Stand for something and mean it! And do it with repetition of simple talking points.
We can do that honestly… with real solutions.
If we can’t get our elected progressives to do this… all is for naught.
iirc, HR 676 is very short… something which could be waved around in the air with one hand… against this what, 2,073 page bill… it would make a great point.
I think it is highly unlikely – particularly in the Senate – that the Democrats will be the minority party. I think the Democrats wont have as much of a majority, but to lose both houses of Congress would be unprecedented given the size of the majorities.
Our Obama problem is that Republicans represent his de facto core beliefs, of unregulated, free markets.
We are being so,so played!
I don’t think the House has ever changed hands without the Senate also changing. Probably wrong about that, but for some reason that keeps bouncing around amongst the few marbles I have left.
Stand for something and mean it?
Like opposition to Medicare for 40 years, then stepping forward as its biggest supporters?
What I think you’re talking about is “appearing to stand for something and mean it.” Which only works if you’ve got media in your back pocket agreeing in advance not to call you on it.
Yes, we can do with more forthrightness and honesty, obviously. But let’s not give the teabaggers MORE than their due.
We already know the existing reforms won’t work. The dying can’t wait. Too many people are too pissed off. Things are a lot worse than they were in ’94. No, this is coming up in the run-up to the next election, and thereafter. The struggle continues.
You are being ridiculously obtuse. I’m over it.
No, I could say the same about you. I’m trying to make a point and really trying to have a serious discussion with you. Maybe wasted effort but I don’t mind trying again.
This isn’t just about “spine”. Democrats may indeed be spineless, but why do Republicans find it so easy to have spine and Democrats so hard? Republicans do not have a funding base pulling them one way and a voting base pulling them in the other. Which is not to say that their voting base agrees with their funding base on everything. But Republicans have learned to play the cultural resentment game better than Democrats, thereby hiding their string-pullers better than Democrats. This is not, in my opinion, a strategy we can emulate, much less should emulate.
One strategy for overcoming this is to punish the Democrats for their spinelessness while letting Republicans go scot-free. Perhaps by the third-party route or by scorched earth tactics against all “DINOs”. I don’t think either will work. But I am not opposed to targetting some DINOs. Additionally, since the national Dems are not putting any effort into making Republicans pay for their dishonest and truculent politics that hurt their base, it’s something we can perhaps do, and maybe even make a difference.
I’ll repeat my earlier sentiment:
Is there really NO Republican anywhere who can be made to pay for his stance on Health Care?
A football coach might try to whip his high school team into a frenzy as they prepare to play an NFL team. Probably won’t work. Spine may be part of the answer. It’s not the whole answer.
yes, by electing a progressive. conservadems embolden the republicans further. from where do you think stupak and nelson got the balls to do what they did?
Yeah, that one.
I wish Harry [or someone] would just say to these ConservaDems, “okay, don’t vote for the bill. We’re tired of weakening everything to ‘woo’ you. You don’t like it? Don’t vote for it. Let it die.”
Seems to me that would be the best for al concerned. I’m just afraid the Repubs know that this bill is a Frakenstein that will drag down Dems, and, if they got wind it wasn’t going to pass, they’d cross over and vote for it.
I mean, why, why, why, continue to struggle for this stupid thing? Better nothing.
The answer to your sentiment is NO, Republicans DON’T have to answer for there stances on health care. Or their lies, distortions, or trashing the Constitution. Their voters are (apparently like a few here for Democrats) going to support them no matter what. They can lie, represent corporate interests over public interests, block, stall, or any other recalcitrant thing they want to do. Their supporters are in lock step with them ALWAYS. It’s why they’re called “ditto heads.” These people vote against their own self-interests all the time and love it because they’ve been brainwashed into believing that the real evil in the world is liberals, progressives, and/or Democrats.
Do you really think Kansas voters are going to not vote for the Republican no matter what they do?
I hope and pray the progessives don’t fall into that trap, but it seems lots are headed there or already there from some of the posts the last few weeks defending Obama.
On Obama, there are some that still claim he’s “the most left President since FDR.” Really?
Health care.
Progessive position-single payer, right wing position-status quo, moderate centrist position-public option. Obama is to the right of moderate.
War. Progressive position-get out now, right wing position-status quo, moderate, centrist position-stay in but devise a plan to leave earlier rather than later. Obama is, again, to the right of the moderates, in that he is adding troops, and the “deadline” turns out to not be a deadline at all.
Stimulus. Progressive position-jobs programs, public works programs, and deficit spend to work our way out. Right wing position-status quo, free market will work itself out. Moderate position-moderate stimulus bill to maintain at least some discipline over the deficit. Again, Obama not only supported a moderate amount, but he moved further right and supported a great deal of the stimulus being in the form of unstimulating tax cuts. If tax cuts were stimulative, we’d have the hottest economy in the world.
And his campaign pledge to “restore the rule of law to our government?” Hah, don’t even go there, please. He has steadfastly refused to hold the higher ups in the last administration accountable, so no “return to the rule of law” here. And other matters relating to national security? Continue denial of habeas corpus (a basic human right), continue renditions, and extend the Bush administration’s claims of state secrets to shield public disclosure of important information.
I can’t find a single issue, NOT ONE, that this President is “left” on. Oh, he may be further left than Bush/Cheney, but that’s like saying 110 degrees outside is cooler than 115 degrees outside. It’s still too fucking hot outside. And Obama is too fucking far right to ever be considered “left.”
Whoops, got long winded again.
Apologies to all. Gotta work on that diarhea of the fingers thing.
This makes the assumption it takes spine to vote for the interests of those who pay to get you reelected. For those, in other words, who, in supporting your political career [your job], put food on your table, clothes on your back and aid and abet you in raising your family and paying your bills.
How much guts does it take to do that? They aren’t abandoning their bankers, are they?
Instead, these Republican Lite Democrats are only doing what is in their own best interest. The problem isn’t that they are spineless so much as their constituents refuse make them pay for backing their rich benefactors.
And the Republicans can be more brazen in vocalizing the interests of Wall Street because there are so many working and middle class dittohead supporters who have been hopelessly brainwashed into abandoning their own economic interests by buying into the racist, nativist, anti-socialist rhethoric of the Fox News, talk radio bloviators who convince them that backing the Republicans will finally bring America back to the people it really belongs to—them.
Oh, I don’t know. Maybe a closet corporatist like Obama who makes pretty speeches claiming to be a progressive?
I’ve been pushing this idea here and on GritTV for over a month, so I’m certainly on board. Practice what I preach too in my daily wanderings and encounters with people around the southern fried city in which I live.
Gotta start somewhere.
Uprooted westcoast liberal learns to speak zee tea.
Ain’t hard, y’all.
Because it sucks!
Well, OK, yeah. I want to see that “kill the bill” movement we were promised if there were no public option.
Sooo Obama and the dems have done the dirty dirty to healthcare reform and we are so dissapointed and shocked. Not me, I always play the president as a short sale on anything he says he is going to do. I am not schocked bcz I know he is going to fck us whenever he has to. And in a couple of years I bet Jane and the rest of you progressives will be saying we need to vote for Obama bcz he is better than the republicans. The only way we are going to get respect from the dems is when we show them we are serious and we are willing to let them lose elections if they dont respect us. Until progressives are willing to do this I am going to keep investing in vasoline.
I wasn’t defending Obama.
I was talking about going after the most likely targets in the Red/Purple states we can find.
To insist in advance that there are no possible such targets is to concede the support system that allows the odious Democratic centrists to survive. It is to concede that the Netroots are a blue-state echo chamber. We should never concede that. We need to push back BOTH against rightwing Democrats and Republicans.
Don’t really understand your point. You either are agreeing or disagreeing with me and I can’t tell which.
Are you disagreeing with me?
Spine is not really the issue. Funding is. The Democratic party has a split personality based on the dichotomy between the funding base and the voting base. The Republicans are much less torn.
i was agreeing with you.
What I am suggesting is that when folks complain about Max Baucus Inc. and his ilk in Congress [and the White House] “caving in” to the “corporate interests” on Wall Street, they never had any intention of standing up to them in the first place. So how can they be called spineless?
Instead, the focus must be more on their constituents demanding that they stop cratering to them.
But they don’t either because 1] they are largely ignorant of how crony capitalism functions systemically in Washington or 2] they are completely uninterested in how anything gets done in Washington.
That’s what has to change. Less outrage about the Democrats who “sell-out” to Wall Street and more effort instead aimed at educating the public as to what is really going on.
If you can raise the consciousness of working and middle class folks about crony capitalism in D.C. and New York on the one hand and organize them to stop it on the other, it won’t really matter what the Blue Dogs and Democratic leadership flunkies do because there will be a lot less of them elected to do it.
Jane, my liege. I would quit my job, suspend my life, and would work on drafting you to run for POTUS in 2012, if I thought for a nanosecond, you would except. We need someone to kick these gutless Democrats in the balls – HARD!
You know how this will end; DC Dems will screw the people and piss off their base. In 2010, Dems will lose the house and damage the senate. It will become obvious Obama is a one-termer. The second this HCR is signed into law, we must start a draft Gore/Dean movement. Otherwise, the right become energized with their new Ronald Ray-gun; Sarah Palin.
You don’t think she has a chance of winning? I’m old enough to remember how we all laughed at Ronnie Baby, in 1976, and 1977, and 1978, and 1979,and in 1980 – until election night.