Well, that did not take long. Earlier today, I wrote how closely the new “grand compromise” on the public option at least seemed to closely resemble the theoretical alternative I wrote about several months ago based on several smart ideas. At the time, I predicted that these ideas would be no more tolerable to the conservative Democrats and Olympia Snowe than the public option. The reason is that these senators do not oppose the public option for ideological reasons. They oppose it because they will oppose anything that hurts the health insurance corporations’ profits. It appears I was 100% correct.
For starters, the Medicaid expansion has completely been dropped, even though it would have been a big money saver for the government:
This afternoon, Jay Rockefeller said that the new proposal to expand Medicaid coverage for those who are 133% to 150% above the federal poverty line was dropped during a meeting of key legislators this morning. “I was sad this morning,” Rockefeller told me and a few other reporters. “We walked in, and it was 133[%] to 140[%], then it’s staying at 133… So we didn’t get anything.”
Now we are getting reports that the Medicare buy-in is not really a buy-in. . . or really Medicare. Senators are looking at restricting the Medicare buy-in so completely that it will be an option for almost no one. It will likely only be for a very tiny segment of poor and very unhealthy 55-64 year-olds:
Negotiators are considering limiting consumers to those who would qualify for high-risk insurance pools already set up under the Senate’s health care legislation. This would mean primarily those who have been uninsured for a certain amount of time, have a history of poor health or are unable to get insurance because of a preexisting condition.
Adding insult to injury, the “Medicare” this tiny fraction of people could buy in to might end up not even really being Medicare:
[Kent] Conrad said that he’d propose having the Medicare buy-in be treated as “a separate pool” that could have negotiated rates, rather than those set by the existing Medicare program.
Thanks Conrad! You just radically increased the federal cost of the program, reduced the quality of coverage, and sent the premiums this small group of older Americans would need to pay through the roof.
But wait, it gets worse. This very expensive non-Medicare that almost no one could buy in to might only be a temporary stopgap for just three years if a handful of conservatives get their way:
The Medicare “buy-in” for people 55 to 64 would be available until government subsidies start flowing in 2014 to new health insurance markets designed for people who now have trouble getting and keeping affordable coverage.
This is in no way a “Medicare buy-in.” As I feared, this has become—in only two days—a Medicare buy-in in name only. If the program is saddled with this massive set of restrictions detailed here, then it would, at most, help barely a few thousands Americans–that is if the program can even manage to function after being so crippled, which should be a serious concern.
Of course, negotiations are still on going, and the details are very much in flux. It is, in theory, possible that the eventual result will not be something so terrible. But the way it looks now, if this new, new “grand compromise” even resembles the current rumors, it will be a great big nothing. Everyday, it gets more and more clear that the only way to pass real health care reform is with reconciliation or the nuclear option. There simply are not 60 senators who would rather help regular Americans instead of bailing out the health insurance industry.




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I am so fucking disgusted. Got email from Obama today asking me to send money to help him fight for health care. Money??? I don’t think so. How about a spine? Or balls? Or strong words? Or lessons in arm twisting?
Hmmm…
And, assuming that any announced “reconciliation” attempt will have more meaning than Reid’s rolling out of the cots (a big assumption), is there any reason to believe that an actual reconciliation measure will not be preemptively watered down by Reid into the soft, chewy shit sandwich mandated by the corporations?
It’s getting uglier.
Mr. Reid knows how bad it will be if he doesn’t give the public what they demand. It means his and his son’s election. Isn’t that precious?
The Medicare thing is meaningless without a plan. MC itself is not cheap and obviously not full coverage or all the supplements/gap plans would not be necessary. The figleaf is very nice with alot of appeal. But the cost would still be prohibitive for many, many people (ie, most of those who need). There may be some situations of losing coverage with job loss where there would be some help. But not a way that addresses major problems for folks with no coverage and little money.
So, why are KO and Howard Dean discussing this as if it is a real option and a good idea?
Spotlight time!!!
FunnyWheelieDiva
That was difficult to watch.
This is a total failure by the Obama administration and the Democratic party. We need to pressure Senators to pull the individual mandate. Right now the party is mandating that everyone is bound by law to buy one of the insurance industries crap policies. This actually takes more pressure of them for delivering care since you have to get some policy from some one and they all try to keep their policies within the same range of crappy. If the Democratic party is identified as mandating individuals turn over their hard earned funds for service rejections, we may have to form a new party with a different name to get anyone to vote for us again.
No public option, then kill the bill or at least kill the individual mandate.
hell with this trash. it’s not honest bargaining, it’s mealy-mouthed pandering as if we’re idiots.
if none of yesterday’s compromises come through in a worthwhile fashion then i assume the House won’t go for the “ping-pong” and people will show their true colors in conference. and if that eventually kills any bill (i doubt it) so be it.
i’m all for taxing the rich $1 Trillion to get $1 Trillion coverage for poor people but never warmed up to the method whereby subsidies were given to private companies. (and half that trillion is coming from Medicare anyway).
I just spotlit this to KO. I highly recommend that others do the same.
Enough happy talk and pie in the sky. Facts please!
Thank you for this, Jon. Sorry your good ideas aren’t being used after all…
FunnyWheelieDiva
Gang of ten is looking at Medicare starting at age 55 according to KO via the AP. Let’s see the details.
No, it would be a complete success for the Corpocrats.
Which just happens to include Obama et al.
Heh, Olbermann just announced the Gang of Ten has finished and the deal is done. Public Option out and gone and this happy horseshit is in. Olbermann did not have the courtesy to inform of the heinous restrictions and limitations though.
I don’t think the treachery/fuckery is through yet.
I think there’ll be some more shitty manuevers, it’s just a matter of “who?” And somehow I think, aside from the usual craptastic players on the R side, it will have to be some form of Reid, Rahm, Hoyer, Lieberman.
see my comment at #10.
Spotlight it! Flood him with requests for the actual facts.
FWDiva
Is this true? The rumors are flying in every which direction.
But if they are, what will “the people” do about it? Why, reelect the Republicans in 2010, of course. That’ll show the healthcare industry and Wall Street!!!
Can there be a more brainwashed, ignorant and docile electorate on the entire planet?
American capitalism thrives like no other political economy in the history of economic exploitation. American “exceptionalism” indeed.
And still there is no one protesting in the streets.
I know that Obama’s soon gonna stand up for working Americans, rein in Wall Street, dismantle the health cartel, and declare victory in Afghanistan and Iraq and bring all our brave fighting women and men home while strengthening the international law enforcement coalition fighting terror.
Looks like it’s a done undeal. Why am I not surprised?
~~~ModNote: URL replaced to protect margins~~~
http://tinyurl.com/ylnva2a
As much as I hate the war and the fighting, it’s time to make people angry and get our priorities to be DC’s priorities.
I believe it’s time to start a movement to re-institute the draft.
People will hate it, and that will mobilize them to set priorities straight with these ass klowns.
TPM:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/12/ap_reports_hcr_deal.php?ref=fpblg
I don’t think anybody knows what the fuck is going to happen.
KO is almost over. Spotlight Rachel.
20 minutes left on an hour show is almost over?
I am at the point where I really have to fight the feeling of wanting to see this guy fail.
And I’m not proud of it.
It is simple folks. Write a letter, e-mail, and phone there offices and let them know you are going to do for them what they are doing for us. NOTHING.
I will be working the canvasing circuit this coming election. I will volunteer for the Democratic party if not getting paid and while I am at it I will speak the truth. The democratic party has no spine and is selling out its own members jus like the republicans. I will vote for a Republican if I can stomach it just to send my message home. At this point they are both the enemy of the people. It might as well be a complete Republican congress and white house with the way this crap is smelling. If the folks you elected to office abandon you, then they are WORSE than the opposition.
Maybe, it is time to consider the enemy of my enemy is my friend and join the tea baggers since Reid and company seem to tea bag us at every turn.
Maybe, it’s time to consider emigration to another country
Heh. Kos just pointed out that the purpose of the 55 plus is to get the most expensive customers off the private insurance rolls.
Chew on this:
http://rawstory.com/2009/12/obama-attorneys-step-defense-torture-memo-author/
Delta is ready when you are.
Rachel has already taped, too, I’m sure. I’m thinking that spotlighting now could get at least a correction tomorrow.
FWDiva
I think that Congress is making it easier all the time for people to rebel. I think we should start distancing ourselves from Democrats and look to establishing a Labor party, as exists in virtually every European democracy.
We should draw a clear distinction between those that advocate for business and unfettered free markets and those that advocate for Labor. These two factions have fundamentally different set of interests, which is fine but the lines need to be made clear. Those that want to straddle somewhere in the middle, think Clinton and his ilk, can straddle as they please.
Those on the left should be clearly on the left and work to elect like minded candidates. Breaking preferences along these lines Obama would never have been elected from Labor, but most likely from the Conservative or Democratic group. There would not have been any question as to where his loyalties lay.
The labor unions have to join cause with the rest of those non-union memebers on the left and we with them. Our future and well being depends on a strong labor movement. We need such an alliance to establish our rights which are now being held hostage to the businees parties.
As an aside it looks like we will need to add Conrad to the growing list of Democrats that should be ousted. Where will this end?
100% agree. Time to abandon ship.
Atrios says the AP is reporting that the Public Option is dead. Again.
Hi = just came home and heard Keith Olbermann say Harry Reid was “at the microphone now” announcing an agreement has been reached – no public option, medicare starting at 55.
He was talking with Kos, who responded that the Senate “is dysfunctional, it’s bought and paid ofr by the insurance companies.”
If true, then our planned phone banks are too late? Have doubts we can budge them off this.
I suppose if we had a real “Progressive Blok” in the senate this is where they would speak out and make the argument for reconciliation. Yeah, right. We need a third party. I’ll say it again: Shoot for 5 senators (Recruit Tom Morello in Illinois, take a good look at the possible Nader run in Connecticut…) and 25 house reps. You need 2 million for a viable senate run, 300000 grand for a viable run. The Progressive Block is a good idea, but not when everyone has to answer to Rahm Emanuel or his boss (?) President Obama, who I think has listened to Rahm’s advice that we lose dem party majorities big in 2010 in order to gain corporate support…I think. I don’t think I’m far from the truth…When Clinton lost big majorities in 96 it made him more powerful not less…
Philip Shropshire
http://tiny.cc/VWkg4
http://tiny.cc/e80N1
Tomorrow I think I will head over to the local Democratic party office with a sign that states simply REPUBLICANS IN DRAG.
Why??? I do not understand this. Do we on the left have a leader?
I spotlighted to KO, couldn’t find Maddow in the list. Wonder why not?
I wonder; is the correct tactical response to blast the House Leadership with the message “Lead on this, do not bow to the Senate, and if you do, pack up your desk.”
Welcome, Steelydan3.
FireDogLake asks that commenters limit links to their own pages to just once per day.
Thanks.
Just got a call from the DNC! Ha ha ha ha ha…I think I yelled “No public option, no money!”
Take to the streets, anything less just won’t cut it anymore.
You can not be a good citizen and support either major political party.
“[Kent] Conrad said that he’d propose having the Medicare buy-in be treated as “a separate pool” that could have negotiated rates, rather than those set by the existing Medicare program.”
Doesn’t this mean that the rate would be a sliding fee scale instead of all paying what Medicare recipients are paying? Just curious.
We need more progressives in the Senate! Instead of bitching about everything, we should all be working on getting progressive Democrats in the Senate. I would have loved to have had Caroline Kennedy in back along. :-(
Thanks. Tastes like shit.
Obama is a liar and a coward.
Everyone needs to contact Reid’s office and to write the White House at http://www.whitehouse.gov and make your protests of this abomination loud and clear.
Believe me that mass protests would help focus Washington on what’s important. There is a reason why Gold of Sacks are arming themselves!
Do any of you really think that the failed Democratic leaders are even done watering down this watered down piece of watered down crap?
It’ll be a tinier fraction being able to buy into the you’re-outta-fucking-luck plan before they’re done.
Seriously, I think you’re right. There has to be a march in very loud protest.
rachel at msnbc dot com
Nobody has added her to the list, I guess. I just email directly, since she swears her team reads all the emails.
FWDiva
Obama has been Robert Rubin’s protege for quite a while now. His major goal is to defang and discourage progressives.
you sure are a bad-ass on a blog
The House bill has a strong public option in it.
Right-o. There will be more fuckery afoot!
Eli is upstairs!
What If Global Warming Were A Giant Meteor?
PS…
WTF is this “gang of 10″ crap? As though there are an equal number of conserva-dems and other dems in the Senate…It’s the Gang of 6 all over again…
Feh! Faugh! even!
FWDiva
Shorter Senate Democrats: “Nobody can fook things up like us. Nobody!”
Bernie Sanders. “it’s difficult of me to give you an explanation on this because no one really knows what’s going on”, oh, except the experts at FDL.
Well, is everybody watching Bernie Sanders on Rachel?
Shockingly — he says he, and everyone except the ten senators working on the agreement, don’t really “know what’s going on.” So he could only talk about what the “trade-offs” might be.
He also said the Senate is “a very conservative institution,” and all the Repubs (and I think he included some conservadems) have decided they’re not serious about reform and have taken the side of the insurance companies.
Very loose paraphrase—trying to feed the cats and listen and read, too.
Poor Eli – terrible timing.
Right now all I care ab out is trying to find out what kind of screwing over the Senate has just “agreed” to.
Ditto that
How many times and ways do you have to get fucked before you know what’s coming next?
Yea, well you and fuckno run out with your bullshit picthforks and see how long you last.
You’re a wonderful, caring person.
Now. Return to kitties and make sure what you put in their bowls.
And don’t forget the water bowls.
no… really… if you’re feeling as discombobulated as i am right now.
;->
one thing that’s weird is how the Chamber of commerce can be pro small business (expansive insurance) and against Health Care Reform (more competitive American business)?
Yeah, the meteor is in the Senate, and its blazing a stinky brown trail across the Senate Floor. I’m here for now, CSpan2 ain’t helping (rerun from Nelson Amendment dialogue) . . . . who’s got ears on in the Senate? o
Is today election day to replace Kennedy?
(((tejanarUSA))) (((Adie)))
You guys are great. Smooch!
And Tejanar’s synopsis was what I heard, too, sitting here with my kitteh and my knitting…
FWDiva
And the House bill has Stupak in it. The Senate version will prevail. So the end result is that we don’t get stupak’ed, but we lose the public option.
So, to review, we gained where we never should have lost anything in the first place (reproductive rights), and we gain nothing in advancing real health care reform (no single payer, no public option).
It’s just like Christman came early this year.
As I wrote today in The Senate’s Great Health Care Reform Kabuki Dance:
And the failure is entirely yours, Harry.
This has to be hung around Harry’s neck.
Where have you heard me advocating running out with bullets or pitchforks? you seem to be responding to your own fantasies, raven.
Do you feel same way about the positions held by Arundhati Roy?
we’ve got each other, eh? oh sigh.
Medicare is actually quite wonderful. I’ve been on it because of disability for several years.
The sad (for me) part is: I’ve gone back to work and will be losing “my” Medicare next spring. Then I will be a self-employed 56-year-old with myriad pre-existing conditions. No way I’m going to be able to get, let alone afford, health insurance then.
I’ll be on the Republican Health Care Plan: Don’t get sick.
still don’t read well do you
National Chamber is one thing, bad and evil.
Local chambers are a tad less bad and evil, but fully entrenched by those who have something personal to gain.
I guess, NONE of them are really pro small business, other than for members dues. Ergo, Chambers could give a shit about business insurance costs, as Chambers are more concerned with servicing local healthcare orgs/insurance orgs than they are small businesses.
I surely would NOT look to ANY Chamber Of Commerce for HCR support, or any OTHER progressive ideal.
Heh. I used ta knit. Gonna bet you drop more sts than ya pick up tonite, oh foolish one…
Tonight, yes, just read that at DDay’s Round Up.
thanks, Larue.
I realize that Donahue is a ‘wanted’ man (spitzer after his ass?)
To do what? Reinstitute the AVF.
thanks. I lose track of days and am constantly surprised. I have seen very little coverage of this race.
Personally partial to Kucinich’s Peace Department.
For what it’s worth, I read your comment @ 42 about taking it to the streets as meaning peaceful marching.
yea, and that’s why “Gold of Sacks are arming themselves!”
thanks, Knoxville.
Nah, I’m using fuzzy, quick-knitting novelty yarn for scarves. 16st rows, garter stitch.
I’m NOT working on my lace-pattern scarf for that exact reason!!!
Mwah!
FWDiva
I read that to mean that they’re paranoid about anyone coming to take away their ill-gotten gains. Firedoglake won’t be leading any armed attack on a financial institution. Come on.
chill raven, and let me explain where I’m coming from.
Capitalism is failing and having coopted the government, we are essentially looking at fascism arriving in America. Even if you disagree, consider the future of joblessness increasing for many many years, jobless insurance running out, health insurance leaving many more thousands out of Health Care, Bankers crashing the economy again (Elizabeth Warren), etc.
What is likely to happen is what Golden Sachs people are seeing, while you are missing it.
I am suggesting we protest in peace before Goldman’s fears come true. Deflate the bubble peacefully en masse, rather than seeng it blow up!
I was incomplete as well as inarticulate.
My point is that the Reps get away without actually representing people, because most of the people today are only awake to the rep during the election cycle, and not when the rep is supposed to be doing OUR work.
This was not so when there was a draft, and also immediately after the draft was replaced with Selective Service. I watched politics very carefully during the approach to my 18th birthday where I had to go to the post office and tell the Feds where I was so they could find me if they wanted to make war. The Iran Hostage days are still crystal clear in my memory, as I was convinced I’d be called up for some Iran nonesense, even though there was technically no “draft.”
In other words, things become crystal fekking clear when you think your ass is on the line, and one way to get everyone’s ass on the line to start paying attention to what our government is doing to us is to re-initiate the draft.
I think all of the sudden a lot of our priotities would get set toute-suite; Rebuilding our own damn country, provide ourselves healthcare and stop the damn wars.
Sometimes, you’ve just got to get MAD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08
Someone remind me, who was/were the asshat(s) that came UP with this jive ass Medicare/Medicaid provision, tweaked it out to be of NO absolute value to the masses, and are now running with it in the Senate?
Was this from the 10 person committee, in the Senate? 5 so called progs and 5 others?
Reid will own this, as will every member of the Senate, Pug or Dem . . . how the FUCK do any of the DEM’s think they will stand for re-election after this?
AND! How the HAYALL does Reid and the Senate Committee think they can get Pelosi and The House Committee to vote for the Senate Bill, without any debate or discussion? Cuz PELOSI will die on THAT cross to bear!!!
How do these people think they can send Obama a madate to buy, without any competition or coverage for pre existing/older sick poor whatever, how do think they can avoid people just absolutely CREAMING them at the polls, and taking to the streets in mass demonstrations?
And yes, at this point, this lack of reform WILL drive people to the streets.
I just don’t get it . . . they are gonna neuter the Prog Caucas veto in the House!!!! ARRRGGHHHHHHH!!!!! And Pelosi HAS to be a part of the deal, she HAS to!!!! She’s dead meat politically!!!!!
Excuse me, this asshole on TRMS just said that tolerant people have to tolerate intolerance.
Fucking asshole.
Larue think about this for a minute; Pelosi is not the type of person to hand over power. She’s not dead meat yet.
What could happen is for her to be fucked over though, and the 2 guys to do just that are Rahm and Hoyer. They’ve done it before, and they’ll do it again.
I’m human, I’m allowed some lapses.
Not sure what you mean.
I was talking about the guest on The Rachel Maddow Show (TRMS).
He said that he was the victim of a hate crime because he was booted from an association that didn’t embrace his right to be intolerant.
as a tolerant human i am allowed lapses of tolerance. Screw Mr. Cohen!
I don’t disagree with you, though (here is where I depart from Dr. Bacevich on the subject) I don’t think the track-record of our anti-militarism was all that good prior to the AVF. At best it seems like one could say that lacking a draft might keep us in conflicts longer than we otherwise would, but it doesn’t seem to have a lot of effect on our politicians in trying to keep us out of such entanglements.
We’re just a militarist-culture now.
That said, even if one could put together an effort to reinstitute the draft; it’d have to be in the form of a Constitutional Amendment to keep from being completely subverted by the legislature the next time they get a hair up their ass to start lobbing bombs at people for reason du jour.
Kelly, there’s a lot of shit goin on and I wish someone could ‘splain what the Senate is up to right about now.
I’m with you on Pelosi being tough. I just don’t know if she’s sold us all out or not, and only waiting for final result will tell.
AND, I guess I’m ahead of the game, the Senate Shenanigans aren’t even OVER yet . . . .
One step at a time . . . . wait and see. They sure have managed to do in the PO, weak as it was in The Senate, in Committee, haven’t they . . .
American healthcare, a fundamental American social,economic and ethical defect after decades of misdirection,put off and simple serial failure to do the right and better thing sees reform once again shucked and discarded by WashingtonDC political process.
President Obama hopefully will suffer on the politics and not be re-elected to be in the WH on his record in 2012.
The D Party hopefully will suffer on the politics in 2010,2012 and beyond 2014 at the polls. Ineffectiveness and money politics should have consequences. Political and being shut out of governance consequences.
The running gag now so fully entrenched no matter how stale the punch line it simply repeats itself over and over — Americans can choose from the loser party or the pathetic party — isn’t that a hoot?
The R Party stands for bad government,poor government,flat ass broke government or no government. Likes wars,low/no taxes and likes to mix religion — er — well the Religion of Christ anyway — with the U.S.Constitution.Wants small government not telling Americans how to be or live unless they want an abortion,are gay or protest warmaking too much.
The other party we Americans have to choose from — the D Party — gave us the Clinton WH which led to Al Gore getting the election stolen from him in Florida by the Bush Gang. After four years the D Party gives us John Kerry — a decorated Vietnam vet — who loses 2004 to Bush — a military slacker and Dick Cheney — a five times draft deferment warrior because they convince Americans that Bush/Cheney are the real tough warriors.But the D Party gave us Vietnam and gosh darn supports the Pentagon 110% as much as the R Party. Barack Obama is doing what that is so different from G.W.Bush warmaking? Cutting Pentagon and CIA budgets? No. Reducing overseas American miliatary bases and basing? No. Getting out of Iraq,out of Afghanistan and staying out of Pakistan and just leaving Iran alone? No.
Telling Israel the American gravy train is over and to clean up its act,stop the brutal Palestinian Occupation and give up on Jerusalem being only capital of Israel? No.
??? I see….
So now the D Party and its leader Barack Obama are pretty much validating Bush/Cheney WH policy,process and point of view on torture,warmaking and Wall St.
Healthcare? Barack Obama has not shown much leadership and his D Party has fumbled,stumbled and greased this turkey so slippery that at this point if the PO does crash and burn who cares? This PO is the bastard child of the D Party and the R Party is so irrelevant again who cares?
The money politics have contaminated WashingtonDC. American Militarism and Corporatism have hijacked our collective future and futures.
I dare Congress to outlaw current money politics and do deep campaign finance reform. I dare Congress to actually do real reform and move American society and economy off the current for profit healthcare regime to Universal Single Payer and fully cost contained and access equal HC.
I dare Congress to defund the Pentagon and the CIA. Defund these two monsters,shut them down,prune and cull both by 70% and then start over.
Congress is supposed to declare and fund wars. Not the Pentagon or CIA.
Where is the Rule of Law? Answer this question Barack Obama regarding torture and war crimes. Rule of Law is not about not looking back. If so then we stop arresting people for robbing banks,running red lights and buying pot and smoking it. Don’t want to look back now do we? Right?
Barack Obama and his WH either comes clean on Bush/Cheney regime torture and starts indicting and prosecuting the torturers or he is up for impeachment. This is what the Rule of Law requires. What Rule of Law does.
If this basic stuff cannot be done and get done then the rest is just spread manure.
The R Party has gone nuts. The D Party will not fight. Will not fight for what is right. Will not fight for Rule of Law. Will not fight for better ethics. Will not do better politics. D Party mediocre performance is better here only because R Party pathetic performance is the only other alternative in American national party politics.
Barack Obama? Where is the 2008 version? Where? This 2009 version is a stranger and displays little of the 2008 Barack Obama version.Mediocrity is being passed out by this WH on torture,warmaking and money politics.
President Obama puts our future at risk and is risking our collective futures as Americans with this mediocrity and the D Party does as well.
President Obama? Why the mediocrity after what you were making speeches about during 2008? Why the fail at change you said you stood for?
Adie – just came back from a few things. Thanks for the compliment – kitties all fed, with their usual cat food. Now resting comfortably with full stomachs.
Well, you do realize that we’ve got a few years to get the bill “perfect” right and you do know that getting real progressive democrats in the Senate would be the best way in getting the bill damn near perfect, right?
But hey! Let’s just give up entirely and ban with George Bush! His history sounds so much better:
http://www.georgewbushcenter.com/site/c.fqLOI5OAKlF/b.5542417/k.2928/George_W_Bush_Presidential_Center.htm?gclid=CMX-oMuXyJ4CFUlo5QodGVcZqg
It is a militarist culture now, that’s for sure. It’s kinda stealthy the way it is, don’t you think?
And I really don’t think the draft effort would have to be successful to wake people up. Just serious enough so that people realize that they have actul skin in the actual game going on.
Because they do, and they’re not playing. It’s just us Dirty Forkin Hippies in the arena, and that ain’t cutting it.
Take the long view buddy. Prepare yourself that there will be more fuckery. Because there will.
What are you saying? Go ahead and pass the Senate bill as is?
And I’m totally missing what that has to do with Bush.
Ah, FWD, thanks to you, too.
Wish I could knit – keep trying to learn and failing – I hear it’s as good as meditation. That true?
War on drugs, War on terror, War on brown people, – shit, right there is 1/2 of GDP down the oubliette, and these are entitlement sort of forevah wars.
Just a few comments on this:
According to both HuffPo and TPM, the state of things is not firm yet but will be as soon as CBO scores the “grand compromise”. All the “progressive” Senators involved in the negotiations (I guess it’s back to “Jello Jay”) are putting on their happy, “I’m so glad we got any crumb of the loaf” faces.
Pingponging the House is not a done deal. As for the “progressive caucus” veto, talk to Jane about how she thinks that one will go.
And for folks really interested in a march, you better start planning the logistics because it is not a trivial undertaking. It requires permits, sound systems, training of marshals, coordination with police, promotion to local groups able to travel, arranging places for people to stay, getting buses arranged to transport groups of people or coordinating with those groups to ensure that they have transportation, designating bus parking areas, and ….just start thinking it through and work it out. A march large enough to capture the attention of our highly compromised media will be a huge undertaking. Not saying that it can’t be done. Just sorting out whether this is a statement of momentary anger or a decision to actually do something. And if we are going to turn this lemon into lemonade, it will require more than idle statements and romantic theatrics.
Whatever comes out of Congress, getting it fixed is going to have to be one big litmus test for candidates in 2010. Among many issues (such as the inordinate power of lobbyists) this is going to be one of the biggies. I’ll say it again: Look at the experience in the 1934 and 1938 midterm elections to see what is possible.
The worst thing to do with this setback is to walk away saying nothing can be done. That is what is called a self-fulfilling prophecy.
NYT backing off of “public option dead” story
Nothing is a done deal, despite efforts of PO foes on Capitol Hill:
Per TPM, NYT is backing off of “public option dead” story.
From your link: my fave part. There are quite a few of us DFH’s in the country, it seems.
Really, 80% of the country wants real health care reform, 70-80% of the Senate does–but 3 or 4 people, who wont vote yes anyway, no matter what, are throwing out everything that might possibly help ordinary citizens.
Let’s hope AP is wrong, as it so often is. But if Harry Reid wasn’t even in the room, how can he “swear” the p.o. isn’t out?
Yep, I saw that. I was just working hard at trying to develop a positive mental attitude through expectation of dramatically adverse events (which I hope would not come to pass because I am expecting them). It’s an engineering principle based on Murphy’s Law.
Bend over and spread em cause here it comes once again. Please let me get some KY so it won’t hurt so much but then again I’m getting used to it.
I agree it’s sort of stealthy, in the sense that we improve our troop commitments by just hiring a private paramilitary force.
I suspect the fact that we don’t take very many casualties, relatively speaking, has a lot more to do with our eagerness to engage, and our propensity for protracted conflicts. I’m likely too old to be drafted now, but even I were in my early 20′s again, and we were to institute a draft I’d be more annoyed at the increased probability of disrupting my life plans due to deployment; rather than the likelihood that I may die as a result of it. As a purely practical matter.
I think, as a point of principle, a drafted military makes a lot more sense as part of civic duty, and for whatever other effect it might have in rebuking militarism, but I would hazard that such an effect is probably minimal. You’ll notice we don’t bother to engage in any combat operations where we stand any plausible chance of sustaining significant casualties anymore. We pick on non-nuclear militarily antiquated states. A draft doesn’t appreciably improve the odds you’ll end up dead as a result of such a pathetic “conflict.”
Of course, I’m also a lot more logical and rational than most people (three cheers for my emotional retardation), so perhaps the threat –no matter how faint–, and the randomness of it would in fact get to people. Hell the number of people that are afraid of terrorist attacks on U.S. soil seems comically high after all, and every single one of those people has a better chance of being struck by lightning twice in the same year; than being the victim of a terrorist attack.
So, what are you going to do with the Senate Dems who “voted” against the Bill?
What are you going to do to Conrad, Carper, Ben Nelson, etc.?
I know EVERYONE will be gunning for Lieberman in 2012, and so will I, but Conrad and Nelson and Lincoln, etc. are no less culpable — what will you do to the other traitors?
Here’s What’s Goin Down, Minus Details
So, there’s something being sent to CBO out of tonight’s committee meeting (ten days of meetings) which included a mix of prog/conserva dems (or so called so). And Reid is either LEADING the Committee, or is ON the committee.
If you read Jay Rockefeller’s sentence near the end of the article, you’ll gulp and wince, as I did. Cuz THAT sure tempers any bullshit Harry Reid’s trying to feed us about the PO not being dead . . . . which Phoeniz Woman above points out, newspapers are now walking back on, cuz of what Harry said tonight after the meeting.
Yeah, I think there’s cause for great concern. I believe what went to the CBO is likely crap and shit.
Now to see if Reid and Senate (with Rahm and Obama) can snowball House, Pelosi and THEIR committee, and eliminate any reconciliation OR debate about the Senate Bill v. House Bill . . . .
Looking like, they fed us a cheap win on Nelson’s Stupak Like issue in order to gut the reforms, across the board.
If Obama signs a weak or NON Public Option Reform Bill, shit’s gonna hit the fan and the streets.
The question then for ME will become how do I punish all those fucks without handing the Republicans majorities in both chambers of Congress in ’10, and the Presidency in ’12.
Fuckity fuck! Talk about yer rock and a hard place . .
And THAT my Fellow Pups, is gonna piss off a lotta humans on all sides all issues.
A non-partisan Ninja Squirrel Army.
LOL! The NSA!
You shoulda just asked your question at the end and saved all those fonts.
This is the choir you just typed to, we KNOW all those things.
My answer to your question is twofold, and simple.
1) He was terrorized and threatened with his life and the life of his family. In a gentle way, that is . . . he was reminded whom he serves. Happens to them all once elected.
2) He was also bought out and paid for, and reminded whom he really serves (hint, not the people).
End of story. Next!
TPM:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/democrats-trade-opt-out-for-trigger-medicare-buy-in-and-more.php?ref=fpblg
Total sell out to the insurance companies.
“Always hope for the best and prepare for the absolute worst.”
*G*
I guess you’re new here – Jane herself has been raising money to run ads against Blanche Lincoln already.
Keep reading – this is not a site with people who simply wring their hands. It is an action site.
Good eating too, woulda made Valley Forge more tolerable long ago.
larue – just skimmed the tpm piece — they say “just got briefed by an aide privy to the negotiations.”
But the NYT update quotes an aide as saying all aides were “kicked out” before the final agreement was reached.
I hope that that description is not true – a trigger, after all the evidence that triggers are worse than worthless.
But I’m crossing my fingers that that “aide” is puffing his not-quite-final-knowledge. Gotta cling to hope…
At this point I don’t even understand why Congress bothers with all this. Is it just to give them something to do? Would we have all long rejected the legitimacy of our government if they didn’t engage in this big show?
Why not just pass a bunch of subsidies to for-profit businesses, do essentially nothing to expand quality affordable coverage, hire a bunch of people to lose their shit over it as though it actually is a radical piece of legislation, and just pass the thing? We got 99% of that anyway; the only piece missing is the expediency.
To review again, we gained where we never should have lost anything in the first place (reproductive rights), and we gain nothing in advancing real health care reform (no single payer, no public option).
Fuckity fuck is right.
you wish we had 99%. But, the best is yet to come:
“Woman Who Invented Credit Default Swaps is One of the Key Architects of Carbon Derivatives, Which Would Be at the Very CENTER of Cap and Trade”
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/12/woman-who-invented-credit-default-swaps.html
Organizing moving 100,000 progressives to Bismark, should take care of Conrad, and on down the line…
Good thing I bought a healthcare ETF last week…
Good thing the internet was invented after we passed civil rights legislation and ended the war in Viet Nam
You would hasten our last drawn breath?
/s
*G*
Please!
*RUNNATHANRUN*
Your country needs ya . . .
I am going with idea a few Obama WH staffers may read FDL and may read or at least note my comment here in this JW piece comments thread.
When you start LarueDogLake you get to ump the comments as you like.
Meanwhile it says FireDogLake up top. Instead of doing six,seven or more comments as you have done up to #118 I left one comment and this one will be the other one. I am not all over FDL comments threads every day and night as it is and am only here on this thread because I like JWs work.
A question for you now. When did the we here at FDL elect you to speak for we?
You are one. Not we. Something to perhaps consider. Good evening to you.
Good lord, it’s worse n Top 40 Radio, where the hits just keep on coming . . .
MORE fuckery, and fuckity fuck!
Wow. Yer trying to impress WH staffers! OMZGOD!!!!
I’m truly saddened I missed that. My bad. Had I known . . . .
Way to fight back though, on my dig.
A weak fight, but none the less . . . some sign of a pulse.
Good on ya!
Guess you don’t really like my answers, do ya . . . shame, I thought they were pretty spot on.
Obvious, too. Choir like, even.
Howard Dean is a Democrat. He wants Dems to win. Knows that with this corporate owned president & Blue Dog controlled Congress, we will get punked as usual. My guiding light in this is what Bernie Sanders decides to do. Obama & Dean will take any bill to promote the idea Democrats can govern when they control all the government. Wall Street governs of course. Hopefully, Sarah Palin will lead a third party. Progressives need a party that is actually progressive for once. Let there be four parties in 2012. We need more than the American Corporate Party & its two-wings.
Worth reading for another perspective:
Yes, This Health Care Bill Really is Worse Than Nothing
By HELEN REDMOND
excerpt: “Dr. Marcia Angell, author, former editor of the New England Journal of Medicine and a leader of Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP.) Dr. Angell opposes the House bill and believes it’s “worse than nothing.” For that she earns the disdain of Joshua who just can’t accept there isn’t something in the bill worth supporting, even though he agrees with her trenchant criticism of the bill’s gaping defects. He claims she ignores the “primary thrust of the legislation” which for Holland is “the fact that the House legislation would do quite a bit for millions of real Americans struggling through a very real health care crisis.” “Real” Americans, a “real” health care crisis? The insinuation is Angell, and by affiliation PNHP, isn’t operating in the real world of real suffering if they don’t support whatever bill Congress delivers to the Oval Office for a signature. That’s interesting. An organization of 16,000 doctors that conducts research on major aspects of the health care crisis and have been on the frontlines for real reform for decades doesn’t understand what’s real? ”
http://www.counterpunch.org/redmond12082009.html
I think Obama and the Democrats are banking on us not punishing them at the polls because of the outcome you describe. I also worry that the White House and the Dems along with the media will spin this bill as health care reform and a distracted or uninformed public will not know otherwise. Hope I’m wrong.
oh no, you’re quite right, but that is just the beginning. On Obama’s agenda is Grover Nordquist’s wet dream of ‘starving the beast’. The way that will be accomplished is by a continuous flow of endless billions into the coffers of the 3 or so favorite Banks, while the States will be forced to start selling of state parks, natural resources, privatizing schools, etc.
Unfortunately most of America including some at FDL are quite averse to facing up to the immediate future, and to paraphrase Obama: the fierce urgency of action now.
Much like the efforts by our government to pull off a full monty on the public with HCR. The world elites; especially G.B. and the U.S. are doing a smoke and mirrors performance for the global public in Coppenhagen. The sooner we recognize that we should be in a high geared, active (by all means where necessary) struggle against highly rarefied investor class occupying just a small fraction of 1% of the population, the better the chance that we won’t wind up bestowing some nightmarish future on our children and grand kids.
Copenhagen climate change talks must fail, says top scientist
World’s leading climate change expert says summit talks so flawed that deal would be a disaster.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/02/copenhagen-climate-change-james-hansen
Local chambers are mostly genuinely small/local. The bigger the area, the less likely the businesses are to be either small or local.
National CoC is big business, not much else. They don’t work with the local CoCs.
As a knitter – only when it’s going well and a simple pattern.
Otherwise, you’re cussing it and yourself. (I had to take out most of a sock last week. Twice.)
Bye-bye, Jimmy Car … er, Barack Obama
Howard Dean said that if this came to pass, just pass the bill without the stipulation that the people will be penalized if they don’t buy it.
Howard Dean also says, Make it Medicare for All.
Barack Obama is no Jimmy Carter. At least Carter had the courage and the right vision for this country 30 years ago. Hell, Obama doesn’t even measure up to Hoover. At least the Glass-Steagall Act passed under his administration. Obama is a sneak oil sales man.
The medical care buy-in is a give away to private insurance to dump very very sick people to maximize profit.
I already decided to let the Republicans win for the next 2-3 elections so that they can really tank this country into the ground. It’s the only way people will ever learn.
@fuckno: Depends on what what your definition of ‘no one’ is. I remember protests.
But that’s not my point.
I completely agree with the “smoke and mirrors” remark. I’m reminded of Paul Simon: “When I look back on all the crap I learned in high school, it’s a wonder I can think at all.” Doing the right thing requires discerning it, first.
I was trained as a dementia-care certified nursing assistant to “go to their world.” I became the go-to guy for agitated residents, patients with every kind of degenerative brain disorder. People with speech aphasias can be perfectly sure what they’re saying makes sense, only for it to sound like gibberish. People with agnosias can hear what you’re saying, and even say it back, and still have no idea what you’re talking about.
Communication is the problem to the answer, goes the old song. That’s what I try to do: figure out how to communicate across seemingly insurmountable barriers, barriers so great, they challenge your definition of what being human really means.
I’m not at all knocking marches and direct actions. I love ‘em. But this, right here, is action too. Doing the right thing requires discerning it, right?
Here, in our heads, in our shared voice, in this thread, on this blog, and so on, we’re doing the work that leads to the work that leads to the actions that change the game (I hope). Can’t just change out one set of dim bulbs for more of the same, eh? Undoing 5 decades of our own gov’t jacking public opinion with weapons-grade crap-o-ganda, is going to take a whole lot of teaching and learning for all of us.
Gee, thanks for that. Any chance you can reconsider? Spite will get us no where.
Well it’s not that I want it to happen but, this seems like the only way people will ever truly learn. Until it affects the majority of the American population the crazies will never learn.
I used to hear the same from the other nursing assistants.
Sorry, third parties have no chance in the American 2-party system and you’re taking the wrong lesson from Europe. It isn’t the specific party, but the fact they have democracies (multi-pary), don’t have supreme leader (presidential) positions (sans France) which are chosen via a popularity contest, and they had a much stronger labor movement. The strength of their activists movements compared to Americans is debatable, but their labor movement is certainly, or was, more powerful. The left American labor movement was crushed in the early 20th century and weak, pro-corporate, Democratic Party-aligned, trade specific labor union were propped up in their place. The unions fought for the workers in the industries, but hardly ever banded together to threaten power in the way left/anarchist unions did/do in Europe (wild cat strikes for example).
We work on overhauling/revolutionizing the government into a proportional multi-party system with a better system of checks and balances, where marketing campaigns and corporate donations don’t decide elections, and the people have some power outside government (like unions), and we’ll be more like Western Europe or better. Rallying behind one third party has been a hopeless cause since…well, since the 2 parties got a stranglehold on the government. Our government was not designed for multiple parties, and actually was designed with the idea that there would be no parties, which didn’t last long, ha.
I’ve heard this about GS in multiple places (arming themselves). I missed this story. Have a link?
Just read his speech to the Hamilton Project when he was a senator (it’s quoted on this site somewhere). He’s either dishonest or horribly misguided, thinking there’s some magical road for the American people between whacko Republicans and centrist Democrats. He hinted at being open to cutting spending on social programs in that speech.
Harry? Obama and Rahm (or via Rahm) had been working behind the scenes the whole time to keep this thing weak. They were behind Baucus’s terrible bill, co-written by the Wellpoint Vice President, haha.
3) He was never progressive to begin with, rather a center-right, fiscal conservative-lite Democrat. He was aligned with the DLC before the election, until he suddenly sought to distance himself from them. He recently proudly stated he was a “New Democrat”. He spoke of his fiscal conservative view points to the Hamilton Project, where he was invited to speak as a senator by Robert Rubin. I don’t think he was threatened by anyone in a scary sense. At worst, he’s been pressured into certain decisions, but I think most of this is what he thinks is right. He chose the people around him.
Contributing to ads running against Lincoln,Lieberman, and Landrieu is the best alternative between calling their offices and voting for a Republican who is worse, although it’s hard to remember what differences Lieberman has with the Republican party. Act Blue has a list of television campaigns by HCAN, PCCAN, and DFA running against the Blue Cross Democrats.
Maybe we should announce to Obama and the Democratic Party that we have a phased in trigger option plan that those of us who worked for Obama or contributed to Obama will do so again after Blue Cross’s healthcare plan is phased out and real healthcare goes into effect. Using the Obama health plan guidelines, Obama and the Democratic Party should be eligible for my support around 2017.
Hold up, people who did not march for the Public Option!!! It was so watered down it would not helped anybody. So, hold up! Let’s see what the new plan is, Once upon a time, to open up medicare and medicard were acceptable. And now they want to open up the federal plan that the federal employees have to everyone. Hold up!!! I did not want an opt out Public Option. It would have split the country. Think about it!!!!
Oh, did I mention that this plan will begin in 2010!!! I marched in
washington in July. Only fifteen hundrfed people showed up. Did you truiy want a Public Option?
crazy that 60 people can effect the lives of 300 million. One seriously failed experiment.
Thank you Jon for explaining how our sic”representatives” have really done their masters bidding. Now that they have speared and maimed the smallest good thing squeezed out for the American People who by a 60% margin wanted a strong competitive Option to Private Insurance and made it a floundering wounded bleeding pitiful thing. Now in committee like piranas they proceed to tear what is left to shreds while their bosses watch satisfied atop seats made of bales of public money with promises of more to come while these shameless Senators, democrats and rebublicans alike bankrupt the People to pay these mafia thugs just like the banker thugs were paid off and the military thugs keep getting paid off. Obama is one of them!