There are a lot of reasons why the progressive groups that would be leading campaigns on a variety of fronts against George Bush stay silent when Obama does the same thing. Randy Shaw has a thoughtful analysis that deserves attention:
Why have activists not publicly challenged Obama’s largely following the moderate Clinton-Gore course, and his failure to ignite the grassroots with a sense of ongoing social transformation that Democrats felt in 1965 or Republicans in 1981? There are four key reasons, none of whose legitimacy alters this fact: activists’ continued refusal to publicly hold the President accountable dooms prospects for progressive change.
The four reasons that Shaw lists are:
- Obama is an extraordinary improvement over Bush.
- Obama’s non-progressive actions are perceived as reflecting his true views. “He truly believe escalating war in Afghanistan is in our nation’s best interest,” says Shaw.
- The investment so many made in the campaign and in Obama himself. “After working day and night for months to elect Obama, it is not easy to accept that he is not the President you thought he would be,” he says.
- Low expectations for Obama’s ability to bring major change.
I’ll add another reason: liberal “validators” were corralled early and easily by the White House, and were silent when Obama started breaking his progressive campaign promises.
The moment that became clear to me was during the AIG bonus fight. The banks went to the White House and said they wanted the rhetoric ratcheted down, and the White House made the liberal groups comply. I remember being out there in the rain in front of the White House with David Swanson, Bill Greider, and 10 Code Pink people the day before the first teabag rally, and thinking “this is a disaster.” All of the populist rage that should have been channeled by the unions and the progressive interest groups was lost to the right at that moment. And the groups stayed silent at the behest of the White House.
It’s going to kill us in 2010.
The White House stitched up the unions quickly and easily by delaying the passage of EFCA. I remember saying at the inauguration that if I were Rahm, I’d never pass EFCA because as long as I didn’t, the unions (which are by far the best funded institutions on the left) wouldn’t be able to move against me. And sure enough, we’re seeing the results right now. SEIU has pushed triggers repeatedly, and the AFL-CIO is on the verge of ditching the public option in exchange for a raise on cap of the excise tax to $25,000. As Jon Walker notes, it’s a completely meaningless concession, but it’s just a fig leaf. The unions are being lied to told that they will get a vote on EFCA after health care passes if they ditch the public option. Since passing EFCA is a matter of survival to many of the private sector unions, they feel they have little choice but to comply.
Shaw concludes, “FDR knew that his progressive base would publicly protest anything short of radical reform; to date, Obama has no such fears.” We’re going to have to start assessing where our loyalties lie — to the issues we say we believe in, or to the personalities we’ve attached ourselves to in the process of achieving them. The left has been largely comfortable in its belief that supporting one was the same as supporting the other. The future of a viable progressive movement is going to mean assessing where those two roads diverge.
Obama is now floating trial balloons about going after Social Security benefits in a midterm election year. Kent Conrad is on the floor of the Senate pushing for his “commission” right now (something the White House tried to push earlier this year, but had to back burner). If it succeeds in slashing Social Security benefits, Obama will set himself up nicely for 2012, but the cost to Democrats in 2010 could be cataclysmic.





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I agree with you, Jane.
Obama HAS been a fucking disappointment.
The majority of Obama voter’s are going to be scratching their heads in 2010 and 2012, wondering “What happened?…How the Republicans regain so much power?”
2010 and 2012 will be the reaming of the generation for Dems.
How do we stop it? Has anyone asked that question or has anyone asked that question or is everyone just bracing themselves for impact?
Regardless of what the organized left is doing, Obama’s popularity with the people is dropping like a rock. He underestimates the deep personal animosity toward him by much of the right. He could give them everything they want and they will still vote against him in huge numbers. Obama needs a motivated base to counter this, but he’s more out of touch with that base than any Democratic president I’ve seen in my lifetime. The closest parallel is to 1980 and I think a primary challenge to Obama and/or a third party candidate is increasingly likely.
Edits:
It is “coralled” and there’s one too many “earlys” in the sentence.
It is “inauguration”
I think you mean “became” here.
/edit
I am tremendously disappointed in Obama. My sister, however, says “He is the best president in my lifetime” (she’s 61) and she’s probably right, and isn’t that sad?
Who will primary Obama and make a difference? Grayson? Maybe. But I don’t think Alan would do that. Dean? I think Howard just wants to be left alone. Who is the good option? Who is the most responsible democrat in the lot?
I personally believe it’s time we started treating obama like we would treat any republican
it’s not getting rediculous, it is rediculous, he continues policy after policy, sometimes even worse then bush and we give him a pass
his “economic strategy” consists of giving more money to corporatists in the hope they will hire people, this president actually believes the REDICULOUS “trickle down” bull crap from reagan/bush
he is a miltonite, a free marketeer
btw, has glass seagal been reenacted yet?
imagine what we would be doing to mccain for what obama has done economically, on the war, on “protecting state secrets”
obama is NOT going to play democrat untill we start letting him know we are going to treat him like a republican when he acts like a republican
I was never that impressed with Obama to be honest but got on the bus in a big way after Edwards was found fucking what ever her name is, his supporters, his wife and ultimately himself. He was the only candidates saying “no lobbyist in my administration” talking about theI/P conflict in an up front way, and “Vets under bridges, and the two Americas”
Once on the Obama bus, put hundreds of hours in like so many others but never thought Obama was some kind of savior. Too often heard “Afghanistan is the necessary war” between “Hope” and “change”.
When he selected Rahm as his COS I knew many issues would stay the same. Following the $$$$$$$
by the time obama runs for second term it’s gonna get easier and easier to primary him
I think one of the biggest problems is the compliance of the so-called liberal base. There are so many “liberals” who are blindly obedient to Obama’s personality cult. And before that it was Al Gore. (Yeah, Al Gore! OMG!)
We are all in the veal pen now.
Chris Bowers and Nate Silver had an open debate on the impact of Democrats’ woes in 2010 on Progressives.
See Chris here and Nate here
I lean toward agreeing with Nate, though I’ve spotted a big hole in the data both he and Chris are using that I’ll write more about later this week.
Let the Democrats sit in the mess of their own making, and let us turn it to our advantage.
When Jane says “It’s going to kill us in 2010,” I’m not sure that’s entirely accurate.
Please see my Progressive Memo: Focus on Winning Elections.
Obama, relying on Roosevelt’s words, urged us to “Make him do it.” We’ve tried . . . and tried . . . and tried. How can we “make him do it” when we’ve given him a mandate, continue to highlight both the unkept promises and the urgent need for the changes he advocated, and still–his quest for inside-the-Beltway civility seems to dampen any noise we make?
George Bush actually made the stupid “Fool me once” remark . . . but I believe many Obama supporters recognize that they have not been fooled once, or twice, or thrice and rather than be continually be labeled as fools are choosing to opt-out of the entire political brouhaha.
The real reason Progressives like me are giving Obama a pass so far is that he’s trying to do the things we want but they’re very difficult. Everything is conditioned on health care, and our hope that the end result that he and the vast majority of Democrats are pushing for is a foot in the door for single payer (complete with rules for how to kick the door in after a few years). This would be the most significant domestic policy accomplishment since LBJ or even FDR, so if he can make it happen we’re willing to be patient and forgive him for a lot of minor perceived sins.
In the meantime, Obama started more new domestic spending in his first week than in the entirety of Clinton’s two terms, so comparing them as similar is a joke. Much of that spending was on education, a huge liberal priority. Obama’s right now pushing for historic global climate legislation and threatening to force it down the Red States’ throats through the EPA because the Senate is holding him back. Which is also the reason for EFCA delays, not Obama – there’s not much he can do to speed up the process, we have a multi-branch system of gov’t.
Lastly, Afghanistan. We can’t blame him for surging troops since that’s exactly what he said he’d do in the campaign. What we can take heart in is that he’s laid out an exit strategy, which is a fairly unprecedented dovish move.
So, the reason most progressives are still on board is because:
1. Obama’s doing the big things we want
2. The things Obama’s done that we don’t agree with are minor and we weren’t confused that we thought we elected Kucinich.
3. Change in the USA is very hard, so you have to be a patient realist.
However, as I said at the beginning, all of this is conditional on health care. If he allows the public plan to be removed for some sham like private non-profits, then progressives will flee in droves and the burden will get much tougher on him to do everything else we want if he wants our votes.
“It’s going to kill us in 2010.”
Just so I’m sure, Jane, who is “us”? :-)
Good post, Jane.
Time will tell. 2010 is the Democratic Party’s problem, as is getting back the base.
Our job is to build a truly progressive moment. Elect progressives only. Defeat Centrist Dems, regardless if a R wins the seat.
An example must be made of Blanche Lincoln.
Yep. But I wonder who will primary him. Will it be someone unknown?
Keep working, Jane. You are getting media, if we give up, we really have lost. Yours is mostly a lone voice, but it needs to be heard.
Thank you. We are behind you. I just donated to the Liarman ad at Act Blue. We have to keep doing this.
and in this house, when Jane says it, we check the expiration date on our passports
perhaps “corralled” would do it. /edit
suggest enormity of problems expressed leads to increased ## of spelling goofaws. might be a decent measurement device in re: level of frustration out in commenter-land.
oh sigh. dammit.
p. e. a. c. e.
Maybe not such a disaster in 2010. If those of us who are committed to the Progressive cause donate and help honest, identified, Progressives no matter where and no matter what office they may be running for from Selectperson, to Dog catcher to Mayor and State Legislator then the number of Progressives in Government will improve. The Democrats will, in all probability, take a beating in 2010 but so what they are not representing us anyway.
We must make it very plain and simple for the Democratic “leadership” (Hah!) you do not represent us and we will not vote for you and frankly we do not give a pigs knuckle whether you are in or out of power. If we, the Progressives, can make a statement in 2010 and maybe even increase our representation then both entrenched parties will have to take notice. By 2012 we may be able to gather a couple more seats in the House and maybe get rid of some of the dead wood in the Senate then we will be advancing our cause. It will probably take more than my remaining life before any decent government returns to America but it is still a dream worth fighting for.
Importantly do not, I repeat do not, vote for a Democrat just because she/he is not a gooper as today’s democrats are are cut from the same right wing, crooked corporate owned cloth.
thank you Jane. I’d vote for YOU. ahem.
I’ve said it repeatedly: Obama was supported by big money in the election for the sole purpose of gutting Social Security, something a white Republican can’t get away with. Look at what Bubba did to welfare.
The Democrats had this one chance to prove to the people that we still count for something. They deserve to lose not just the House, but the Senate and the Executive. Let everyone live under the one party rule of the oligarchs.
I’ve contributed what little I can to people here and to Act Blue but I don’t see the point any more. Nothing is going to change for me or for millions like me. I live on a fixed income which is being eroded by higher fuel and food costs, higher health care premiums and higher co-pays, and absolutely no relief in sight.
Obama and the people who support him have an agenda. Do what the Republicans can’t do in the way of shredding the safety net, give away even more money to the top 1% with absolutely no strings attached, escalate the war in Afghanistan a la LBJ and Bundy, and get away with it because you can enunciate your words and feign empathy with the people you are screwing.
Where’s Dawn Johnsen’s nomination going? How much effectiveness does Elizabeth Warren have? What pull does Samantha Power (Sunstein) have on our policy on genocide and human rights in Africa, or for that matter, in the Occupied Territories?
A lot of middle class white voters put their trust in faith in Obama, not to mention the blacks and Hispanics who voted for him. What do you think that does to the chances of any other minority candidate in the future and I don’t just mean the near future? I think my gut reaction is 100% correct: Obama is just keeping the seat warm for the true fascist who will follow him after everyone has been demoralized or too angry to care about the system any more.
Carter
Obama’s machinery was largely a weapon aimed at one thing: Getting Elected. Obama along with his campaign staff ran a focused, textbook campaign and had the advantage of running against an opponent who was a marginal representative of his base at best (although Palin was effective in bringing the fringe wingnuts along).
The campaign against Hillary was probably more of a masterstroke than then actual Presidential campaign, and gave the Obama people the experience and saavy they needed to win elections, but sadly not govern.
My feeling about Obama was and is that he is an incredibly effective speaker and could probably sell ketchup popsicles to women wearing white satin gloves (or men too, I guess) but he has never shown or demonstrated any real potential for Leadership. Sadly, neither did Hillary. Both were master of the glib phrase, and political sleight-of-hand to make their positions seem to be whatever the listener wanted to hear.
Instead of using the Oval Office and Presidency as a “bully pulpit”, Obama seems to have decided that it’s a way to reward very rich supporters (and potential supporters) … aka The Banksters, and to push agendas that will ensure that they get theirs while the rest of us watch. Cynical? Maybe, but then prove me wrong…
Additionally, Obama’s failure to rein in Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu and Lincoln is quite the sight to behold. That is perhaps the most telling failure of this leadership capabilities, add his seeming love affair with the “good war” in Afghanistan and it seems like he’s setting himself up for failure both personally and for the Democratic Party as an organization in 2010. He seems to think that if he gets on the TeeVee and says “pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” with that wonderful, cadenced, nuanced oratory people will keep buying it and not notice that not just no actions back up the words, but that there was never any intention for action.
He might not be toast in 2012, after all GWB got elected twice, but it’s gonna be a fight unlike any modern political battle… the right is mobilized and will cede no ground next year without exacting a horrid political toll.
I remember that day in the rain with William Greider, Jane.
I recall thinking, “where are all those folks who registered all those voters in VA?”
what are people thinking? ask any Pole about Gierek. they’ll tell you it wasn’t worth passivity.
after what we’ve been through, over the last many years….
for shame. no snark.
I don’t agree with you at all. I think HCR with a robust public option, EFCA and regulation of the finance industry are very big things.
I don’t understand all the “liberals” who are still bending over and offering themselves to Obama. Personally I hate traitors like Obama and Lieberman way more than people like Bush and Cheney. At least Bush and Cheney did what they said they would do. At least they stuck by their base. Obama threw us overboard and laughed.
How does slashing Social Security benefits help Obama 2012?
Thanks, Jane. I’m afraid you’re right. With a frayed GOP offering no more than Beck, Limbaugh, Romney and Palin, this Dem leadersheep has no reason to become more progressive. It seems to want to hang onto its privileges, more than it does restore responsible government or begin to meet the needs of its base.
Shame on them. They will end up losing their seats and their privileges – but not their wealth – and the public will continue to suffer. That will not lead to a more peaceful or productive society. I wonder if that’s why the feds keep illegally spying at home and why they keep subsidizing local law enforcement’s purchase of military sonic cannons and such.
That’s a feature, not a bug.
Other than talking about doing big things, what action has he taken? That’s progressive, I mean.
I have run out of snark. This administration is one big bloody snark I am afraid.
Surtt beat me to the question. Bush’s attempt at it in 2005 began his precipitous slide in the polls and I don’t see what’s changed about the public attitude toward it. In fact there are many more people now on extended unemployment benefits, who probably are more supportive of social safety nets than they were four years ago.
I think reasons 1, 2 and 4 make sense and comport with reality.
As to Shaw’s remarks about FDR, they remind me of the myths conservatives now tell about Reagan. FDR was not driven by ideology. He was, like Obama, first and foremost a pragmatist. To the extent FDR achieved sweeping change, it should be remembered that he was working with massive legislative majorities. For instance, in the 74th Congress that enacted Social Security, Democrats had 71 out of 96 Senators.
I appreciate your comments. I hope you’re wrong – That’s all. Precious little evidence that you are.
Any chance that [deer in headlights] syndrome to blame for obamamiseries?
i’m grasping for straws here meself. groan…
Some Chomsky for ya.
“…the insurance industries and the big banks are absolutely euphoric now—on the business pages they don’t even conceal it—because they’ve succeeded in coming out of the crisis even stronger than they were before, and in a better position to lay the basis for the next crisis. But they don’t care, because they’ll get bailed out again. That’s class consciousness with a vengeance.”
“… there is a right-wing populist uprising. It’s very common, even on the left, to just ridicule them, but that’s not the right reaction. If you look at those people and listen to them on talk radio, these are people with real grievances. I listen to talk radio a lot and it’s kind of interesting. If you can sort of suspend your knowledge of the world and just enter into the world of the people who are calling in, you can understand them. I’ve never seen a study, but my sense is that these are people who feel really aggrieved. These people think, “I’ve done everything right all my life, I’m a god-fearing Christian, I’m white, I’m male, I’ve worked hard, and I carry a gun. I do everything I’m supposed to do. And I’m getting shafted.” And in fact they are getting shafted. For 30 years their wages have stagnated or declined, the social conditions have worsened, the children are going crazy, there are no schools, there’s nothing, so somebody must be doing something to them, and they want to know who it is. Well Rush Limbaugh has answered – it’s the rich liberals who own the banks and run the government, and of course run the media, and they don’t care about you—they just want to give everything away to illegal immigrants and gays and communists and so on.
Well, you know, the reaction we should be having to them is not ridicule, but rather self-criticism. Why aren’t we organizing them? I mean, we are the ones that ought to be organizing them, not Rush Limbaugh. There are historical analogs, which are not exact, of course, but are close enough to be worrisome. This is a whiff of early Nazi Germany. Hitler was appealing to groups with similar grievances, and giving them crazy answers, but at least they were answers; these groups weren’t getting them anywhere else. It was the Jews and the Bolsheviks [that were the problem].
I mean, the liberal democrats aren’t going to tell the average American, “Yeah, you’re being shafted because of the policies that we’ve established over the years that we’re maintaining now.” That’s not going to be an answer. And they’re not getting answers from the left. So, there’s an internal coherence and logic to what they get from Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and the rest of these guys. And they sound very convincing, they’re very self-confident, and they have an answer to everything—a crazy answer, but it’s an answer. And it’s our fault if that goes on. So one thing to be done is don’t ridicule these people, join them, and talk about their real grievances and give them a sensible answer, like, “Take over your factories.”
Some Chomsky for ya.
To say that I am disgusted or disappointed does no service to what I really feel. Have we experienced a mass delusion? Or were we conned? I honestly don’t know. I admit I was not a rabid Obama supporter…originally Biden then Hillary…the woman does know how to take names..I thought Obama incredibly naive for wanting to make-nice with repubs …even tho it seemed that most of his supporters thought that was the major draw….I was hoping he was just saying that to get independents…my bad. So we have what we have there and I can’t decide what ‘that’ is. Seeing him speak,it seems so far-fetched that he could be so duplicitous, but then seeing what he actually does, or rather doesn’t do, you get that ‘ya know your no-good boyfriend is lying to you but you keep making excuses to yourself’, feeling. And what’s it all about anyway? In whose path are they trailing that feather boa? Who do they think is going to vote for them next time around? The kids? Us boomers who’ve been lied to just one too many times? The seniors? Oops, us boomers are going to be seniors then…. The thing is, we are going to have to decide what he is and what we are and what are we going to do about it. I’ll go to my grave without ever voting for an ‘R’, but who do we have on the horizon? I’ll choke before I vote for another ‘unknown’ who doesn’t have a strong voting record…..and I’m not voting for a loser just to make a statement.
What about Congress? Are they truly all bought and paid for? Are there any worth salvaging? Is there any way to prevail over the Corporate interests? Ever? In our lifetimes? We can talk Campaign Finance reform until we turn blue, but who in Washington is going to vote for it? Forgive me if I’m a little tired of ‘we’ve got to work harder to elect better/more democrats’. Been there, done that, got a stack of those T-shirts. And yet I’ll still go vote for the lesser of evils and grind my teeth while doing it. Why is it so hard for people to embrace liberal views? What are we doing wrong? And how can we reframe our views as mainstream rather than liberal…I mean what is so frigging liberal about Health Care? Are we too willing to wallow in liberalism without considering how to frame our views in a more widely acceptable way? Are we too prideful? And more to the point, why isn’t it widely acceptable? What’s wrong with this country anyway?
Huh, wow, THANK YOU JANE.
I’m getting almost as fed up with the Obama apologists as I am the right wing. What they don’t understand is that what we had was maybe a once in a lifetime opportunity for real change. And THAT’S why I am so fucking FED UP with Obama, because he fooled me too, and it’s gonna cost ALL of us.
There’s not likely to be another aligning of the stars with a chance to elect so many democrats and a progressive (so I/we thought) President in our lifetimes. It COULD happen, maybe if the R’s retake control and fuck things up even more, but basically I’m afraid this was a once in a lifetime opportunity that is gone because that ASSHOLE OBAMA isn’t a progressive, he’s a big, fat, corporatist that tried on progressive clothes during the campaign.
Damn I’m angry, after working for, giving to, and finally waking up early to go vote for this corporate piece of shit. It’s also why I’ve now decided, once and for all, no more voting for Democrats just because they’re Democrats. Folks want to say well it’s better than the alternative. That type of thinking is why the Democratic Party feels no need to actually become progressive, IMO.
Whoops, sorry for the rant. This one hit a nerve. My bad.
Huge spending increases in the stimulus and budget. I would have liked more (stay tuned), but his new spending alone was a more significant liberal achievement than anyone in 45 years. That’s pretty good for his first 9 months. Now he’s talking about doing huge nation-quaking things like a public option, cap and trade, and EFCA. Sounds pretty good to me…stay tuned.
Jane what do you have up your sleeve? Are there any pressure points that we are not pressing? Where do we go next?
I am actually concerned on how is the “rhetoric ratcheted down” regarding progressives…
Just how is the progressives being made to comply anyway?
Yes, Obama is certainly trying his hardest to be the best Republican he can be. He should be stopped. After witnessing his betrayal on health care reform, reform at the DOJ, and now, attempting to reduce Social Security, how can you support this sham?
You should think a bit harder, IMO. Re your reasons:
1. I agree that health care is a big thing. But what is Obama really “doing” about it? It’s not at all clear that what will come out of this process will be much better than what we have now.
2. Afghanistan, letting Goldman Sachs run the economy, wiretapping, habeas corpus. These are hardly minor. Anyone who thinks they are can hardly call himself a progressive.
3. Yes it’s hard. But if all you are willing to do is wait, forget it.
The one angle we have is that Obama does respond somewhat to pressure from progressives. What’s needed is to get more of them on board, as Jane says.
Obama’s non-progressive actions are perceived as reflecting his true views.
Worst thing about him. Centrists wil always tell YOU that they’d like to be more progressive but it’s not politically possible, but they’re true-blue centrists who’d rather lose than move to the left.
The Democratic Party has been using various sorts of organizations to buffer and divert populist resistance aver since the end of WWII. MLK pushed the envelope quite a bit, but most progressive organizations have been tame ever since him.
Obama is trying to get a “revenue-neutral” health care bill passed. Maybe YOU want that, but I don’t. And I don’t want a surge in Afghanistan, and I certainly didn’t want a bailout for the banks. Leave me out of your “we.”
“There was a time when Democratic presidents represented the little man, and Republicans represented business. Today both parties represent the moneyed interests. On December 3 at the jobs summit with business leaders, Obama said, “We don’t have enough public dollars to fill the hole of private dollars that was created as a consequence of the crisis.”
“The Democrats have become brownshirt Republicans.”
–PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts12042009.html
The best thing Obama has going for him in 2012 is the poor list of likely Reps that will face him.
Otherwise, one and done.
Who pays your salary? I wish I was smokin what you are.
I am sorry because I have been taught to avoid ad hominem attacks, but your comments on this thread makes me think of veal.
Anyone who’s still sending contributions to MoveOn, Human Rights Campaign, NARAL, HCAN, Sierra Club and any other veal pen organization ought to think twice about what you’re suppporting, and even about whether you want to be on their mailing lists so they can claim you as a supporter. They exist entirely to give the Democrats cover for failing to act, to keep money and votes flowing to the Democrats, and to make sure that groups really working for the kind of change we all want are marginalized and portrayed as crazy lefitsts.
Gays still being expelled from military. DOMA still on the books. More US troops at war now than in November 2006. America’s world leading incarceration rate even higher. No progress toward Israel=Palestine settlement. War budget higher than the entire rest of the world combined now higher than ever. ACORN defunded; Blackwater not. War on drugs unabated. Health care premiums still set to increase 10-20 percent every year forever. Helluva job, progressive organizations!
Thanks for that.
The almost complete ignoring in many Liberal circles of the incredible amount of positive change that has happened really since 2006, with the 1st 100 hours accomplishments of Pelosi and Friends, and only accelerated since President Barack Hussein Obama was inaugurated, has truly boggled my mind. I remember leaving many comments here warning of how this chips away at support for many of the initiatives most of us would agree with, since it was obvious there would be some issues Obama wouldn’t or couldn’t move on to our satisfaction, and I worried that these would serve to cloud people’s opinions during this time when things start getting tough, and motivation begins to wane. Again, it reallt started before Obama was able to even get out of the gate.
Yin-yang. Balance. It’s the key for so many things in life, and it’s been way, way off in regards to Liberal sentiment toward Obama. I literally just can’t believe it, since it started long before he was even in office. For instance, Afghan escalation really concerns me, yet at the exact same time so many great things are happening which makes me give him the benefit of the doubt so far. I did the same for Bill Clinton even though I actively worked against him in the 1992 primaries. It took about 2 years of Clinton before I gave up hope and knew who he really was. Obama is blowing Clinton out of the water so far, especially considering what he was handed.
All along, Obama said he wanted to 1.) Stop the bleeding. 2.) Institute major structural changes in attempts to stop these kinds of collapse from happening again.
He’s basically succeeding in this plan so far, and now is starting to tackle the structural changes part. All along with the Infiltrator Dems like Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, and so on trying to scuttle everything along the way.
Obama is obviously not the problem. He could get so much more done if more of the Liberal base would recognize the positives and get fired up, and focus, FOCUS on the real problem – DLC/Infiltrator Dems. I do take some solace though in that many of these same voices complaining about Obama CONSTANTLY and ignoring the positives, had really nothing to do with him becoming President, which we accomplished without them, so I’m still feeling like we can do more great things without their help again. It’s just that it would be so much easier if all this energy and time spent on incessant complaining and hand-wringing would be directed toward making positive changes instead. Oh well, everyone makes their own choices.
(cue long comments screaming about Afghanistan, FISA, exec pay, etc., thereby proving my point.)
This is exactly right. We should be following Thom Hartmann’s advice and joining Teabag rallies with signs that say “Down with NAFTA” and “break up the monopolies.”
My oft-repeated position is that doing anything BUT instituting campaign finance reform is a waste of time, because nothing that does not profit the corporations will survive our fully-bribed Congress.
But if we MUST treat the symptoms while we wait to apply the cure, then ORGANIZING THE WORKERS AGAINST THE CORPORATIONS seems like a natural thing for progressives to do. The Teabaggers are the workers, and I think they would respond well to ACTUAL populism, rather than Sarah Palin style faux-populism that flies into each city on a private plane before climbing into a campaign bus for a three mile trip to the mall.
Finally, we need to be aware that Democratic Party interests are frequently not Progressive interests.
1. In the last 2 months while he was devising an Afghan exit strategy, Obama’s recent involvement in health care negotiations has admittedly been anemic. But do you really think he has much power to twist Joe Lieberman or Ben Nelson’s arm? Think again dreamers. Obama set the table by campaigning on health care and giving dozens of speeches about how the public option is the best cost control mechanism. He got more than 50 Senators on board and he’ll be happy to sign their reconciliation bill. He hasn’t bent over backwards trying to get 60 votes because there are some stubborn assholes in the Democratic party and he’s not stupid enough to think he can change that.
2. Afghan – he announced an exit strategy. Sounds good to me, I bet LBJ and Truman wish they had. Goldman Sachs – this is your best point, but they’ve had their squid tentacles around our face for years and it’s only reasonable that he remove them slowly in the midst of the global financial panic that we’re really still in.
3. I’m not willing to wait forever, but I’m not a little child demanding everything right now like most of you.
thanks for the oomph. i’ll try to hang on. should prolly be more judgemental here, but have never seen such a terrifying array of nasties all on one front-and-center tray, each demanding simultaneous solace & scintillating sophistication. *crawls into corner & dons dunce cap.
@ because, if he’s not re-elected, he can’t follow thru on… anything…
he means well…
oh golly…
Huh, reading here today and over the past few months here (and some other places) it seems obvious to me, Obama has about as much chance or re-election as Sarah Palin does. Do the folks in power really, really, not see this? Do they REALLY believe that by being “moderate” some on the right are gonna go ahead and vote for him?? Are they nuts? He could give the Republicans EVERY SINGLE ISSUE THEY WANTED, but in the election, they’re still gonna vote for Republicans. Independents? Do they really think they’re going to win over more independents than the number on the left they’re losing??
What IS IT with these people? Are they really just a prop in a big game and know that they’re supposed to be a one term administration? I understand enough about politics to know that things aren’t what they always seem, that money buys power, and that lies are part of the game, but I always thought self-survival was a feature too. Do these folks really think they can come up with a winning electoral strategy in 2012 with the base totally pissed off? I mean, maybe it’s just me that’s actually SERIOUS about NOT VOTING for Obama in 2012, even if he is the Democratic nominee. I’m guessing that must be what it is. Everyone else isn’t serious, and the folks in the administration know this, so they can go ahead and count their votes. Well, there’s one less vote you’re getting in 2012 that you got in 2008, I can GUARANTEE YOU THAT Obama/Rahm.
If you have a plan for how to find enough Congressmen to finance health care reform with deficits, let me know, or else I’ll gladly leave you out of my “we.” BTW I’d love to finance it with deficits too, but I’m realistic enough to admit there aren’t more than a few Senators who agree with me.
Obama didn’t hand the banks a blank check, Bush did. Obama still had to take significant rescue actions so our money didn’t become toilet paper – but his “bailouts” were loans that are being paid back, with interest. And now he’s going to take that money which no one planned to re-spend, and do just that on job creation.
Chris and Nate are arguing, I believe, about whether we should care if we lose seats like Bright and Minick — not if we’re going to.
And neither addresses the impact of cutting Social Security, which is what I was specifically referring to when I said it would really hurt us in 2010. Admittedly it’s an assumption that doesn’t have polling data to support it, but since many of those who won their seats in 2006 did so by kicking the shit out of the Republicans on Social Security, I don’t know if it’s anything that most will want to test.
When the banksters said “tone done the rhetoric” the probably used two arguements.
1) A veiled threat, “hey we are helping you here we need cover or we will stop helping”
2) We are afraid of death by mobs. Remember how freaked they got by the bus tours of AIG execs?
Remember the “Bonus Army?” thing about a twist on that which someone on the left could start. It would demand thatbthere banksters give back their bonuses. We could have buses of people around their offices and houses. That would give them an excuse to turn on the hoses release the hounds and call the cops. It would be supressed viciously by the military and law enforcement and could win sympathy for the banksters on one hand. It would also capture the anger and fear on the left and direct it toward the people responsible for economic woes. This is the real fear.
During the financial crisis the smart banksters never let people know they were guilty. “it was all legal, just unwise.”
and “we were just trying to make money for or shareholders , is that so wrong?”
I don’t know which Argument Obama accepted to lay off the banksters I’m going to guess he might have bought the “we are afraid for our lives.” that kind of class warfare where the rich get hit is not okay. The poor can always be distracted, arrested or given jobs like FDR did to the Bonus Army marchers.
Thanks, best comment I’ve ever seen at FDL. Good to know there are a few of us :-) While we’re clearly outnumbered by the pajamahadeen here, I think in the real world the numbers look a lot better for our side.
damn straight.
organizing 101. even i know that:
I couldn’t agree with you more Jane. Obama is a centrist and I knew that going in. He’s Clinton all over again. His campaign rhetoric never matched his voting record so I’m not really surprised. He’s fighting (sort of)for all the things he wants and maybe if it isn’t too politically costly later on; he’ll throw the progressives a bone.
I believe that Social Security is the third rail. If it is touched in any way, the party that does it will be defeated for a long time to come. Even a hint that they want to change it could be devastating. Since I don’t know everything about SS, maybe there are some things that need to be done, but the average citizen would never take the time to understand and we would have lefty tea parties as well as right.
Yes, in today’s NYT’s there is a story that indicates the bank bailout wasn’t the boondoggle many seem to think it was.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34307191/ns/business-the_new_york_times
I question whether the “pajamahadeed” would have to look far to debunk this:
Here’s a start:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/03/obama-administration-help_n_344042.html
Unless “gutting Sarbanes-Oxley” constitutes a “major structural change” to head off “collapse” that I just don’t understand.
Very true, they’re mad as hell, which is natural given how they’ve been treated, but they don’t know who/what to be mad at, and that of course limits the effectiveness of their protestations.
If they ever figure out who/what is really to blame for their situation, we’d have about five million people camped out on the Mall in Washington within about a week.
Our nation’s problems would be so much easier to solve if we could find some way to take advantage of the fact that we’ve all experienced the same poor treatment at the hands of our so-called leaders.
Is it really possible that they’ve extinguished our ability to unite in common cause?
“pajamahadeen” – you let out your true colors there.
This “pajamahadeen” would like you to address 2 specific 180 degree from campaign promises Obama made:
1-”Fierce Advocate” for gay rights approved of the DOJ brief in a DOMA suit comparing gay marriage to bestiality and pedophilia.
2- Has not only stood upon Bush admin legal proceedings to advance State Secrets Privieldges, but invented novel arguments, while campaigning on being the most transparent administation.
Square those circles for me please.
Thanks. Chomsky is exactly right.
And Obama needs to be stopped. Health care reform has turned into a Trojan Horse attack on women, on workers, on the middle class, on the elderly and the poor, for the benefit of Wall Street. Kill it.
Next up on Obama’s dangerous “Great Society” agenda: Social Security. Jane is right too.
Not sure I think Obama is setting himself up nicely for 2012 – if he touches Social Security he will have to deal with all the retired/nearly retired folks and that could be nasty. Also, by the time 2012 hits the House and Senate will be lost or nearly lost. This time he can’t do a Clinton and act like he had nothing to do with it -
Re: primary him – what if somebody did and he lost an early primary? He would have to drop out of the race -
Personally I think we need to do a FCP on him and get a real progressive 3rd party candidate – it ensures electing a Republican but it would also be a real teaching moment for the Dem Party.
Selise !
Did you see this … Senate Dems may open up Medicare – via huffpo
Good sign or trial balloon ?
in order to persuade enough people to actually mobilize for campaign finance reform, they may have to experience having their other efforts blocked. so, attempting to dissuade them from those other efforts may ultimately undermine attempts at mass mobilization for campaign finance reform.
btw, massachusetts actually enacted a clean elections law (with public financing) after a massive public campaign. the dem ledge (something like 80% dem) refused to enact it and eventually killed it with romney’s help.
Interesting point. I suspect you speak with tongue in cheek, but let’s think about how we might make Jane a candidate. Don’t think it’d be via democratic primaries. As for a third party, its attractiveness must be proven beforehand. People fear a Nader effect of electing say Sarah Palin should she be the annointed one. We need to organize town by town on the internet with as large an umbrella as possible-yes, even conservatives love their country and want the best for it as do liberals. It will take technical know how and money for servers. We may not be able to do it, but if we are looking for change via the Democrats, we will look in vain. That’s a prediction I know, and your guess is as good as mine. Our choice is we try to influence events or we wait and see what happens.
He’s already started dismantling Public Education.
-mikesong is applauding
Progressives believe in progressive ideology, in which “supporting the Democrat against the Republican” is always more important than any ideal in which progressives might be said to believe.
Now I’m conflicted … do I “visualize” Jane Hamsher in Congress or as replacement for JoeScar ?
As much fun as it would be to have you kicking Heads with Al Franken, it would also be great having you on TeeVee, doing the same thing.
Jane:
I hate to say this but we need a list – a list of those groups/organizations that are working for Big O’s White House instead of their members. They have to be called out by name or we can’t nail them for it -
Here’s a start -
Human Rights Campaign Fund
The Daily Kos
hmmmmm, lemme see
“incessant complaining and handwringing”
” I’m not willing to wait forever, but I’m not a little child demanding everything right now like most of you”
“pajamahadeen”
“patient realist”
thank dog you grown ups are here to lead us away from condescending generalizations
Word of advice, dear friend …
s
c
r
o
l
l
I doubt these folks will give Obama a pass. Neither will I.
Huh, “I’m not a little child demanding everything right now like most of you.”
Funny, I always thought it was the children that resorted to name calling like that. Do you really have to go there? I mean, if it’s name calling you want, I’m sure some of us “children” here could think of a few choice names too. Do we really need to go there?
I’m convinced Obama is a corporatist, conning us progressives. You’re convinced he’s a progressive trying his best. Can’t we debate the issue without resorting to calling each other children?
If not, so be it. I’d rather not play that game though. I’ll gladly talk about the choices Obama has made (on his own, separate from Congress) that I think shows his true corporatist colors but I’m not gonna play a name calling game.
You have yourself a nice day, and truth be told, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong. FWIW, I have been many, many times, so history is on your side.
Your logon name certainly fits what you say…
Thanks. I think you’re correct. I remember starting to get concerned during the general election last year and the Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Paylinpaloozer stuff got ramped up, and my better half, who pays little attention to blogs or MegaMedia, suggested that most people see this stuff and think it’s ridiculous and not to worry.
She was correct, and I think the same thing may be happening now.
Take off the most risky from the Health Insurance enrollment pool.
That’s how I read it, particularly if that mandate goes through.
I think the term is pajamahadeen, with an “n” as the last letter. Not sure though since this is the first time I’ve heard that name.
That’s two names he’s called us. Children and pajamahadeen. Guess name calling is in vogue today.
I’ll agree with you Jane, Obama’s position on financial reform has been by far the most alarming development. But I think we have to keep the context in mind – our economy remains a house of cards and a bad move or two could easily slip us into Great Depression 2. Which would end Obama’s ability to do anything else and end the momentum for the next generation of liberal politics. So he’s hired a lot of the bank robbers like Summers/Geithner to help him figure out how to stop future bank robbers. And they’re playing a little lax on financial regulation right now so we can try to stay afloat.
It’s kind of like we’ve had even more of a heroin economy than Afghanistan and rather than trying to cure us cold turkey, Obama’s giving us methadone. I recognize this rationale can excuse a lot of uncalled for sins, and Obama probably will commit some. But I believe before 2012 he will make a lot of changes to finance that we’d like. Anyway, finance has always been a genteel version of Las Vegas, I’m more concerned that he spend political capital on jobs creation.
Petrocelli!
no, i hadn’t seen it. thank you very much for the link.
don’t know any details of what is being proposed. will be looking for evidence that the single payer nature of medicare will not be further undermined (see medicare advantage). but if done right it imo it could be a very very good compromise. and if done wrong…..
given what we’ve seen so far from this congress and this president, let’s just say i need to see the fine print before taking anything that seems like good news at face value. prof foland told me in 2006 i needed to release my inner cynic and history has proven him correct.
later…..
p.s. mandates still suck. they must go.
Actually, not really… and not necessarily for top of main ticket.
You see someone better??? and this is not heroine worship speaking here.
She’s good enough and, darn it, I respect her! ;->
still… hate to lose her from the guerrilla squad, heh. There she’s spot on, proven, golden.
I see. So we finance “defense” and bank bailouts by printing up money, but saving lives through health care? Of course not — Congress (and the President) think that saving lives is unimportant when compared with the paramount duty of our Federal government to throw money at its bloated military-industrial complex. It’s our obligation to change their minds, or throw them out.
And as for “how it gets done” — we won’t get anything if we don’t insist upon it, and we certainly won’t get it if we limit our demands to those tiny crumbs which they tell us are “possible.”
mikesong,
How about hanging out, say – at zerohedge for a nonce. I am certain you’ll be quickly cured of spewing economic platitudes.
Nice retorts to mikesong one and all.
mikesong @41: Wow, propagandists dream about compliant subjects who say, as you did, “he announced an exit strategy. Sounds good to me, …” Any idea what that plan is? How likely is he to stick to it? Have you been paying any attention the last few decades?
Don’t believe the hype. The marketing of Obama has been a classic bait-and-switch.
Kucinich 2012!
Adie !
Mebbe we could clone Jane … about 60 times ! *g*
Look, if people aren’t being realistic, I have to call them out as the pajamahadeen – even more so because I share their basic values and want to see us pursue a more successful advocacy strategy.
I know, I know, gay rights. The real beef that so many have with him and pretend it’s other things. I’m a huge gay rights supporter. And I recognize that about 25% of the country agrees with me. So I don’t want Obama to put his finger in that electrical socket like Clinton did with DADT. I do want Obama to do everything he can to ensure basic civil rights for gays, and I believe he will, but as far as making them fully equal in every aspect of society, we’re going to have wait.
I can get behind that, question is, – can Kucinich?
I STILL think they’re gonna go, via the courts. IANAL, but I still cannot imagine it constitutional to be forced to purchase a good or service from a private enterprise. If that IS constitutional, then forget arguing over Obama, we need to fix the Constitution. Cause if the brussel sprouts industry ever successfully lobbied Congress and the President to enact a law mandating the purchase of brussel sprouts, that’s gonna do it for this old fat guy. I hate brussel sprouts. *g*
Obama feeding another 34,000 troops into the Afghan meatgrinder, along with the zillions to do and sustain that, is not “following the moderate Clinton-Gore strategy.
And anyone who calls Hillary’s and Gates’ farting in Obama’s face (As noted by Siun) over his using the term “exit strategy”, “moderate”,
is moving the historical and political goalposts like they were trash cans on the sidewalk.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/05/clinton-gates-walk-back-o_n_381575.html
LOL … great point !
Bull. He only pays it lip service, at best. A few months ago, he all but abandoned it, but then backed down (an example of his susceptibility to progressive pressure, BTW)
I’ll believe that when I see it. Dream on..
what ARE you smoking? Putting in 30,000 more troops is no exit strategy. He’s giving the military everything they ask for. And maybe setting up Petraeus to be the next Rethug nominee in the process…
Show me how they are being removed. $19Billion for GS and $9Billion for mass transit improvements in the US. Renominate Bernanke. This is not progress.
Don’t worry, with your attitude you will wait forever.
It appears you cannot or will not address the 180 degree about face on either of the issues I presented.
Does anyone think Labor is going to sit out 2010?
I don’t see the OFA grassroots Get Out the Vote being as strong as it was for Obama’s election. Labor might fill in the gap if EFCA comes up for a vote before Labor day – and if it passes you can bet that incumbent Democratic Congresspeople will be trumpeting it at picnics far and wide, and getting the GOTV help they need for next November.
Personally I think state legislatures should be a focus for us in 2010 for a number of reasons, redistricting being a primary factor. If we can influence district lines to make it so some blue dogs get replaced by progressives we will have a better chance for the entire decade.
Why are you preaching to the choir? – I already said I agree with you that health care is the thing that should be financed with deficits – and I think we should have a war surtax to pay for all defense spending. If you want to do something about this, try addressing your concerns to the 90% of Senators who disagree with us instead of fighting with me about.
Absolutely true. We should have been organizing these folks. Damned shame.
i have a dream….
Hi back at ya. I hope you’re doing well. ;->
MaryMcCurnin @ 4:
“Who will primary Obama and make a difference?”
The difference will by made before then, in the mid-terms in 2010. If Obama and the dems won’t pick up their tools and get into the salvage operation by then, why, and, how, will they, when the dems congressional margins will either be razor thin or non-existent?
We don’t have to lose Obama to lose the presidency. In fact, since today he won’t even speak the words “public option” to the Senate leaders, I would argue that we’ve already lost it.
With you all the way Jane.
The question is who are we going to get to Primary Obama for 2012?
We need to start right now.
Because until we actually hhallenge Obama he’ll keep walking all over us
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/17785
Because the point is OBAMA DISAGREES WITH THAT STUFF TOO. And this discussion was about Obama. Remember, it was OBAMA that said “I will not sign a health care bill that adds a dime to the deficit.” Congress didn’t say that, OBAMA did. And Obama will not sign a war sur-tax, I’ll bet any amount of money right now with anyone that wants to bet it. It’s Obama, no matter how badly you don’t want to admit that.
when there’s too much hot air about, the sprouts pout…
and turn bitter.
no. really. *g* I luvs me some sweet cold-weather sprouts.
Each time I say this people here ridicule me. But, if you want to blame a President for the difficulties this country has in enacting sweeping progressive change, your focus should be on Madison.
Note I never used that word.
Don’t know about that issue, but I have worked with some small companies that felt Sarbanes-Oxley was quite burdensome on them and didn’t really do much to solve any of the problems, so having it start with companies $75 million and up doesn’t necessarily seem horrible, especially if the Maloney amendment will be a bargaining chip for bigger regulations later. Again, first I’ve seen of this, so don’t really have an opinion one way or other.
I do know that I really liked what I read today about Obama pushing for hundreds of billions left in TARP and Stimulus money going to “Main Street,” now that Step 1 I suggested earlier seems to be solidifying, at least in the short term. That’s pretty exciting and I’m looking forward to seeing the details. Oh, and I really liked reading a few weeks back about the Obama Admin wanting higher tariffs for imports, working with GE to open several new plants in America creating thousands of new jobs, and all the movement in strengthening the “Green Economy,” and how much of BigMoney is really pissed about these things. If they’re pissed, it must be good for the middle class. A lot to be excited about.
The one thing I agree with you is the concern about Petraeus’ moves, but I think I a surge as a pretext for a withdrawal is the perfect way to neutralize him. If you think there’s a good chance Obama will back down on his promise to withdraw, which would be re-election suicide, I’d like to sprinkle some of what you’re smoking on top of mine.
Have heard Obama making any demands on the Senators? Has anyone forced him to choose his cabinet?
12.8 Billion to Golden Sacks and 4 Billion for Education. That’s the sort of priorities we don’t need.
Hartmann and Chomsky are exactly right.
Ridiculing the tea baggers is a HUGE mistake. We should empathize with them and try to steer their anger toward the correct sources of their legitimate grievances.
If we fail to do that, we risk a right-wing populist movement, which historically never ends well.
Organizing the tea baggers sounds good.
I see problems to overcome:
many liberals have problems with people carrying guns. Teabaggers are not going to change on this issue.
Tea baggers have had 2 decades of programming by conservative talk radio saying government cannot do anything right. There are some points where this can be challenged (firefighting, military, Medicare). It will take a lot of talking to get this deep seated meme out.
The Rand myth that the rich are rich solely due to their superior work ethic is another deep seated meme that’s planted in tea bagger’s psyche. Confronting that should be easy; after all they work hard and are not getting rich… unfortunately if you point that out you lose them because you’re essentially calling them losers.
What’s needed is a better story that explains how they can get ahead due to progressive policies. We can do this, I’m not sure exactly how to do so myself.
There will be many opportunities to engage because a dying empire is not going to make the life of it’s population any more bearable. And, this ship is plunging into as yet unchartered depth .
Obama was well aware that Congress wouldn’t spend a dime of deficit on health care, so he spun it as his own deficit-hawkishness. I’m glad you actually believe that’s his own fundamental principal – I hope many independents buy it too.
good to see someone with perspective and intellect.
Yes, Virginia, real life is not like your freshman year of college. Remember how great it was to spend all your time around people who believed exactly what you believed? Wasn’t it great to hang out with cool peeps who could pull Right Action out of their asses at the toke of a blunt? Gosh, if only we could go back to a time when everyone we knew agreed that we were brilliant, and witty, and politically savvy, too. That was awesome! Alas, out here in the Real World, moral and intellectual superiority doesn’t always carry the argument. You’d think the last decade would have drilled that into your heads. I thought you’d finally gotten the memo in 2008. You put President Obama in the White House! You helped elect the most Progressive President since FDR, guys/gals! 2 and 1/2 years of political smash-mouth, but you hung in there, and got the Man into office. I must say that I found your mix of hard-nosed electoral calculation, and dewy-eyed re-casting of the man’s every utterance to be kind of touching. He campaigned as a Centrist! Sure, he has an open mind about a lot of Progressive policy proposals, but if he held a rally where he pissed on Reagan’s grave, I sure missed it. You keep going on about how the slightest deviation from your personal orthodoxy means Betrayal!, and you’ll find yourselves right where the Republicans are today: sitting in a puddle of your own tears, shooting your mouths off on CSPAN, with no power to effect anything policy-wise.
But Kordo, you say, how can you be so harsh? We voted for Hope & Change, and all we got was a supremely competent political operator who’s cool-in-the-saddle handling of the economic and international horrorshow Bush left behind has not only gone a long way towards repairing our image and advancing our goals abroad, but also kept our economy from reverting to the Canned-Food-Barter System (and I had my assless leather chaps all picked out, too…).
But hey! Go ahead and primary the guy. Keeps people honest. You could run really gaudy ads about Treachery and Betrayal. Compare him to Hitler, that’s always a crowd-pleaser. Fuck it, I hear Nader is looking for a paid gig, call him up.
Now I will ridicule some of the “25-year-old political geniuses” (Thx, Riley)
bmull-
“Obama’s popularity with the people is dropping like a rock. He underestimates the deep personal animosity toward him by much of the right.”
Umm, it’s really not. His popularity is over 50%, still. And no, he doesn’t. I’m sure he’s smart enough, and Black enough, to recognize Ignorant Cracker Hate when he sees it.
mattcarmody-
“Obama is just keeping the seat warm for the true fascist who will follow him after everyone has been demoralized or too angry to care about the system any more.”
Gods, I hope I never get stuck with you in a foxhole. What are we, 12 months in? This is warm-up, little one. What are you gonna do when it gets nasty? If you’re already too demoralized to care, put a bullet in your head. If you intend to stick around for the rest of the fight then get up, change your undies, and fucking deal with it.
Jo Fish-
“Additionally, Obama’s failure to rein in Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu and Lincoln is quite the sight to behold.”
Exactly how is he supposed to “rein in” sitting US Senators? Rendition? You are familiar with the concept of Separation of Powers, are you not? No? You should look that up.
sixtysomething-
Your answer: Mass delusion, self-inflicted. Had you actually listened to the man, and not your inner choir of McGovernite angels, you’d have avoided the heartache.
“Why is it so hard for people to embrace liberal views? What are we doing wrong? And how can we reframe our views as mainstream rather than liberal…I mean what is so frigging liberal about Health Care? Are we too willing to wallow in liberalism without considering how to frame our views in a more widely acceptable way? Are we too prideful? And more to the point, why isn’t it widely acceptable? What’s wrong with this country anyway?”
Those are excellent questions, which I’ll try to answer without resort to profanity: It’s not your ideas, honey; those are actually really good. Some (very wealthy) people disagree with you, and they own all the TeeVee stations. Thus, they exert a lot of influence out in the sticks. Two possible solutions for you:
1: Start your own collective farm, and become self-sufficient so you never have to deal with this stuff again.
2: Quit your whining, and learn how to fight better.
Thank you, fuckno. A little Chomsky always brightens my day.
And thank you to those folks here who’ve shown a little intestinal fortitude.
You can lose every battle and still win the War. The reverse of that little truism applies as well.
LOL, wow!!
Oh I get it!!! Good ‘ole 11 dimensional chess at work again!!!
LOL, silly me.
Think I’ll see if I can find something to smoke now.
-um- u serious?
sorry to intrude or hep in any way, but some might counsel to stop calling ‘em “baggers”, on the off chance some might be able to read.
… just a random thot
The fight here is not so much left vs. right (it is that as well), but more so up vs down:
“Many non-violent resistance movements fighting isolated, single-issue battles across the country have realised that their kind of special interest politics which had its time and place, is no longer enough.
If opportunism and expediency come at the cost of our beliefs, then there is nothing to separate us from mainstream politicians.”
–Arundhati Roy
Obama, the WH (Rahm) and big business/MIC are all sadly and deeply out of touch with the people, be they left OR right . . . . the people have been squeezed too much too fast and it’s all but obvious to even the rightwing tard teabaggers that government and business are out to fuck them repeatedly.
Ironic, but there it is . . . . if the middle class does NOT see a CONCERTED and SUCCESSFUL immediate effort to restore and create jobs then all pols will suffer and all will fail.
What happens at that point I don’t know, but at some point dissatisfied masses of all classes outside the 1% are gonna start to express their dissatisfaction with a status quo that don’t include them.
I think, as you say, this is the worst political calculation EASILY since ’80 by ANY party, and by the established 1%, also . . . . they done gone too far too fast . . . . the blowback economically alone is spinning and getting momentum daily. At some point, a political/social fabric is gonna tear.
Get your facts straight. Obama has added more than $100 billion in new education spending, and that’s not just a one-time thing, much of the increase will remain in the budget in perpetuity.
The money that went to Goldman Sachs was a loan, which will be paid back, and then that money which was created out of thin air will be spent on things we care about.
Lastly, all you guys and gals who think Obama has the ability to convince Lieberman, Nelson, etc., of anything – wow, I admire your starry optimism.
you’re right, we should change our nomenclature – tea partiers.
That nomenclature reflects poorly on us, regardless of how deliciously snarky it is.
my swan t’a goodness gratuitous! paw left the pet door open agin…
I don’t think there IS one yet . . . but I’m greatly intrigued by Mz. Hamsher’s topic in this thread.
She’s laying groundwork for something, it seems . . .*G*
It’s how she rolls! Look at single payer . . . how she’s handled that, and expect single payer to be BACK on her table before this is all over (and not only as a long term end goal).
So, I eagerly await to see what Mz. Hamsher has up her proverbial political sleeve THIS time . . *G*
ROTFLMAO! In the just-heating-up competition for best FDL comment ever, you’re now in the lead.
sorry to be a partier-poopier. sigh
I think this thread is a serious attempt to do just what you are saying.
Can’t wait for the next step to come and see just what’s up with FDL . . . *G*
And as for deficit spending – I agree that any HCR that relies on deficit spending isn’t sustainable. What we need to do is spend as much as we need and then make sure we bring in enough revenue to cover it. That means…. taxes.
You get what you pay for – well except with military spending, then you usually get much less than you pay for.
you noticed it too?!
a trial balloon? finger in the wind? eh?
I know, right? What a charlatan Obama is! He acts like he’s got this “Plan” thing, but all he’s done is accomplish most of what he said he wanted to in the first year; gotten China and India to sit at the same table and actually agree to do something about CO2; set a timetable for getting our troops out of the meat-grinder; And! advance Health Reform further and faster than any Dem in the last 40 years. Fuckin’ phony…
Now crawl your [edit] back to Redstate and tell Erick I said his mom blows homeless dudes for Twinkie money. I don’t mean that in a nice way.
[Modnote: Please refrain from insulting fellow commenters.]
mikey,
Heritage Foundation, you give me that as a link?, no wonder you are all around out to lunch.
Obama + 4 Billion investment in education: Video; in his own words:
http://www.ignitemag.net/?p=4553
Refreshing!
“[edited]“????
Would a response of [edited] here be uncalled for mods?
Or should I just say [edited]??
Mods, whadda ya think?
Name calling seems very in much in practice today. Don’t know what’s in the water this morning.
[edited].
Outta here.
Everyone have a nice day.
[Modnote: Yes, it would be uncalled for.]
You said something that needs to be said. Populist anger can’t be harnessed for progressive change if we show disdain for the angry people. I was getting at that with the need for some level of acceptance that gun ownership is a non negotiable issue for a large number of the tea partiers. If we’re going to have them as allies we have to accept that fact.
How do we change the Rand myth of virtuous wealth? That seems like it should fall, especially since we have banksters as examples of extremely non virtuous wealth.
“Lastly, all you guys and gals who think Obama has the ability to convince Lieberman, Nelson, etc., of anything – wow, I admire your starry optimism.”
He campaigned for Lieberman, so: He sure showed us how incompetent he is, or he needed someone to support his Corporatist Agenda.
i did huh? t’was simple soup kettle, refrigerator magnet, people management 101. don’t insult yer target population unless ya want to. it could be counter-productive, especially with all the relaxed concealed carry nonsense weighting down all their pockets ‘n stuff…
When our Foreign Policy is in the pockets of the Armament Industry and thus wars have become a feature of our ‘Democracy’, the gun toting T-bagger seems comparatively unimpressive as an issue.
Virtuous wealth, I think is an idea that’s imploding on it’s own.
You can’t lump all of these people into one category. Some are afraid we’ll take away their guns, others are concerned with a religionist agenda, while others are atheists who are convinced we’re eroding their freedoms.
We need to focus on our common ground. I think we can agree that we’re being screwed by a rich elite. The difference is, they’ve been convinced it’s a liberal elite – and folks like Clinton (NAFTA) and now Obama only help reinforce that idea.
But they are already suspicious of a rich elite, so that’s our foot in the door. Then we need to find a way to point out all the rich elite on the right like Scaife, Koch, and all the wealthy talking heads on Fox News. Focus on the wealth thing.
Don’t be afraid of class war, it’s already being waged, we might as well fight back.
Haven’t been hangin’ at the Lake long, have you? I wouldn’t recommend calling Lake regulars trolls. Just because you don’t agree with someone’s ideas here doesn’t make them a troll. Doesn’t do much for your credibility.
You do me too much honor, Sir. But thanks anyways >:)
Gotta say thanks for your thoughtful comment and perspectives you’ve shown this past few months since I first started seeing your comments . . . really appreciate the well reasoned look at things you share regarding Obama and his admin . . . I’m not clinging to him at all, I’d dump his ass in a NY Minute, if it were not for the lesser of two evils shit . . . but it IS good to see some reasons to like SOMETHING he’s done to date, aside from all the TARP, EFCA, FISA, AfPak things that are so easy to criticize.
On we trudge.
may i have door number three, bob, for 1 pence?
True. The most interesting thing in the exchange was the discussion about what categories work best when turning data into useful information and how to interpret it. Nate’s three criteria for a progressive-leaning Democrat were ultimately lacking, as have those of other groups that have tried to use a few votes as indicators. Otherwise, their back and forth about whether we should care wasn’t very helpful.
I still say that we need to turn the Democrats’ problems next year to our advantage as bast we can!
Yeah, I’m kinda missing that one, too . . . . I don’t get it.
Hey dragon. Don’t go leavin’ that door open agin. Possum might git into the cheezitz, or wurst.
Uh, did you read the second paragraph?
I just picked the top link off Google. If you prefer to get your facts from pre-approved organizations, will NPR do? They do put the figure higher at $115 billion dollars.. And that’s just the increase from the stimulus, not the permanent increases in the budget. But you’ll still say $4 billion, because in fuckno land, it’s fuckno all the time.
I had to go back and look — twice — to see what I had typed that was different than what YOU typed. Sheesh. /stupidme
I’m not sure about that. He has a good heart and a tremendous will, but I think was ineffective. Too bad. I admire Jimmy Carter.
Jane, thanks for this post. I’ve been saying the same thing over at the seminal for months now, I use the phrase ObamaRahma because I think that it is a more accurate reflection of how policy on ALL issues is being decided.
Mikesong,bonkers, y’all seem to be victims of your own credulity.
Selise, I wish you hadn’t told me of “btw, massachusetts actually enacted a clean elections law (with public financing) after a massive public campaign. the dem ledge (something like 80% dem) refused to enact it and eventually killed it with romney’s help.” ; it only served to remind me ,once again, of how corrupt the two party’s are.
Because without public financing, the game of who contributes the most money gets the most attention keeps on going; anyone else ever wonder why Congress doesn’t pass a law about free media access for those seeking election? It IS, after all, OUR airwaves even though the NAB entities are leasing them from us.
stress. nothing more.
sorry. couldn’t resist.
p. e. a. c. e. ;->
The tea party crowds are united in saying their taxes are too high and going for ineffective government. beyond that they do have other issues, some of which you identified.
The tax argument seems rooted in a Randian idea that selfishness is virtuous and furthermore becoming wealthy is a sign of virtue. They don’t see this idea as imploding, they see lower taxes as their hope for a better life – “if only the government wasn’t stealing so much of my income I’d be getting rich too”. This needs to be debunked. The benefits of their taxes need to be made tangible, over and over again.
During the wildfire season I pointed out how happy I was to pay taxes to control the fires many times and had tea party sympathizers agree that their taxes were going to good use. And now they are back to complaining about high taxes, how they can’t buy a 5th motorcycle because the guvmint is stealing their money.
i have a weakness.
i don’t feel their pain. i find their logic-free echo chamber a pain.
we all depend on gummint money. they just never bother to look from whence it cometh. hopeless hapless helpless? not really. ludicrous? yeah. pretty much.
I can’t believe that ANYbody that goes after Social Security or Medicare cuts won’t get creamed and derided and UNVOTED for . . . . those two issues are WAY too loaded with 45+ year old’s of all colors, religions, incomes and such.
It would be pure SUICIDE politically for anyone to march on those two issues. So I tend to believe that Obama will NOT march in that direction, merely lead the GOP to do so and fall off the cliff. And that’s not multi-dimensional chess, either . . . just good political common sense, hand out rope enough to hang with.
As I said, I’m eager to see more from you on rousing the prog/lib base in support of the things we CAN impact. Like your Single Payer Strategy . . . . don’t fight a battle we can’t win. *G*
Marathon, not sprint, and to that end I’ll thank Mikesong once again for his thoughtful comments. Perhaps the more rabid progs wailing against his ‘paidforinsider’ thoughts will come around in time.
But with holding support, not voting, handing it to the GOP is insane, always has been, always will be, regardless if the Dem’s are as bought as the GOP.
We gotta clean up our own DEM house, and work on eliminating the Blue Dogs and so called centrist sell outs.
That’s battle enough for a lifetime of activism . . . along with all the other wish list items we NEVER give up on, including pony’s!!!! Cuz we gotta have dreams, while we are fighting on so many social cause fronts and civil rights fronts.
My apologies to the mods, and to all readers.
Can’t believe I let someone probably half my age and who probably hasn’t ever actually been in the streets fighting for what’s right half the time I have get under my skin like that (somehow the arrogance I perceived really got me). Says more about me than him. My apologies to all, and I’ll take a break for awhile.
As the good SD always says,
Don’t. Ever. Give. Up.
Namaste.
yeah. thanks.
I don’t think it was the arrogance that got to you.
hey. go easy on yerself. if only for the blood pressure.
p. e. a. c. e. dammit. ;->
Virtuous wealth..hmmm.
I wonder how much of that propaganda has been reinforced,ad infinitum, by the Right Wing Evangelicals through their prosperity preaching pulpits and televangelists to their teabagger targets?
Repetitive reinforcement.
I’m aregular here, and it is not helpful when I decide to criticize the president and then make recommendations on how progressives should make and follow through with threats only to be told I am not being helpful. Also, that I am giving the repugs ammo to use against Obama. I have been saying that he needs a primary challenger from the get go. Yes I know having a primary challenger has consequences, but the progressives NEED to be following through with some viable threats. AND those threats need to hurt!
One of the loudest complainers works for Lockheed, and he acknowledged that Lockheed doesn’t know how to be profitable absent government contracts (we were talking about the L-1011 tristar jet, one of Lockheed’s last attempts to compete in the commercial marketplace. it failed).
Well, the term blind patriot comes to mind.
Then again, competition IS what provides a superior product,no?
We need to hit back against virtuous wealth – the extremely unvirtuous behavior of the banksters should be coupled with the cliche about power corrupting… wealth and power can be conflated and the corrupt behavior of the banksters, pro sports team owners, walmart, etc should be brought to tea partier attention.
Until you, and 60 million LIKE you, are in the streets demanding change, NOTHING will happen the way you want.
I’ll use Mz. Hamsher’s Single Payer analogy . . . you can talk all you want, but show me your body in the street and count me the number of Senate and House folks you own to DEMAND your change and I’ll back you up ASAP.
Until then, we fight the one’s we might win, the one’s we might lose but that will STILL have an impact going forward for more progressive ideals.
Mikesong and Bonkers HAVE put forth some reality.
And yes, there’s LOTS to be cynical about.
But the system is gamed and rigged, and we are ALL out gunned and out spent by the system in place.
NO president, no matter HOW much they want to change, can do it all, or do it fast.
Does that mean we stop holding feets to fires? OF COURSE NOT!!!!!
But this silly game of progs/libs willing to take out Obama and the Dem Party for something they can’t POSSIBLY DELIVER for the better, is insane.
I eagerly await the next installment of Mz. Hamsher’s thoughts on how to move forward. And I DON’T think Mikesong and Bonkers are all that crazy either . . . Pups, save your ammo for when we need it!
(but hold feets to fires, yes)
Well, the money changers in the temple DOES comes to mind…
Whoa! When did I stumble into credibility? You clearly don’t know me too well.
As to the “Regulars”, I couldn’t care less. The Regs (some of them, I should qualify) seem to be having a bit of an intellectual circle-jerk lately. Conned! Misled! Betrayed! We hafta primary him, and find more Progressives!
And meanwhile, they’re talkin’ themselves out of power. I have great respect for ideas, and ideals. Righteous indignation and magical thinking can go hang, along with the folks who need them as crutches. By all means, vote for more Progressives. I’ll vote with you. You wanna get up on yer soap-box, yer doing it by yourselves.
*nods*
that basket also holds the vacant uncomprehending stare I get from ms prissy when i ask if she’s prepared to fill the potholes in her street by herself, or change the bulb in the stoplight down the way.
I would suggest that the struggle for gay rights, women’s rights and civil rights in general is a long, continual and constant struggle.
‘Having to wait’ is a negative buzz phrase that’s gonna really set off a lot of folks . . . we never wait, it’s a daily struggle.
Yer gonna take a lot of heat for this one . . . poor choice of phrasing, hoss . . .
EPUland: I agree with you.
unfortunately the tea partiers don’t go to churches where that part of the gospel is emphasized.
Your comment at 113 was as credible as anything posted here in weeks.
I have been arguing many of the same points, but not as well or as colorfully.
Sorry, got a little hot under the collar there. Didn’t mean to insult the poster. I did mean to insult Erick Erickson, ’cause he’s a douche. My apologies to all.
Kordo (who’s a loudmouth, btw)
You say:
I’m sorry but you’re going to have to be specific about how relaxing Sarbanes-Oxley helps us “stay afloat.”
Any one care to speculate on what labor is going to do with respect to the 2010 general election GOTV effort?
The idea of tea partiers becoming allies thanks to common populist anger at the giveaways to banksters is nice, but it isn’t a short term project. I sincerely doubt we’ll have tea partiers carry signs calling for sensible reform any time soon.
In the meantime we do need to think about what we can do in 2010. I’ve put out a marker saying state legislatures are an important battleground due to redistricting that happens following the 2010 census.
Is there possibly a 100th monkey on the horizon regarding “Progressives” and Obama?
Forthwith the latest installment from Chris Floyd’s site Empire Burlesque.It is scathing .Slaughters some sacred cows.
Caution,Have Rolaids handy.
Its a real doozy,and sure to rankle MANY for its unapologetic tone toward “progressive” politics.
Highly recommended.
Savvy to a Fault: Coming to Terms With Imperial Power
Written by Chris Floyd
Thursday, 03 December 2009 17:17
“How does it become a man to behave toward this American government to-day? I answer that he cannot without disgrace be associated with it.” — Henry David Thoreau
“To me, this quote from Thoreau expresses the only rational, moral and humane stance that a citizen can take toward the vast and brutal machinery of the American imperial state in our time.
The crimes of this state are monstrous, and mounting. But what is worse is that these crimes are not aberrations; they are the very essence of the system — they are its goal, its product, its lifeblood.”
December 3, 2009 … Savvy to a Fault: Coming to Terms With Imperial Power …. …
http://www.chris-floyd.com/…/1883-savvy-to-a-fault-coming-to-terms-with-imperial-power.html
not that there’s anything personal…
’tis all about “great respect for ideas, and ideals…”
whatever
They can’t be squared, and you know it.
My take?
The system in place won’t allow for those battles to be waged and won or lost, ergo they become daily struggles, one term at a time.
Give up the struggle? NO! Give up on Obama regarding those struggles? Not yet.
Get thru HCR, jobs creation, build up middle class . . . all first term.
Second term, with a few wins underway and a MORE UNITED we the people, more is possible.
Some things are a constant daily struggle, a daily grind.
Some things like HCR and jobs are on the table now, and need to fought for HARD! NOW!
Not what you want to hear . . . but hell, I don’t like where we progs and libs are at, either. I’m frustrated on many counts.
However, the system in place is WELL entrenched, has GREAT power, and holds the ability to make or break presidents, their families, senators, and representatives. If you think planes don’t fall out of the air mysteriously, you ain’t been payin attention.
Change is often slow. Until this country goes FULLY into the toilet, rapid change is not likely to happen.
We fight on daily, in our lives, at the keyboards, only to ensure that there IS a struggle being waged, a fight being taken to the status quo. Win it??? Not hardly, not all of if, not any of it, fast.
Grind it out Kelly . . . much of all of this including gay rights will not be resolved in my, or your, lifetimes.
But we grind it out . . . . it’s what good people do for themselves and for each other.
I hear you, “have to be patient” would have been better. But the thing is, opposition to gay rights in the USA is widespread, stark, and cruel, and I wanted to reflect that reality with my language. The best way to say it would probably be gay rights supporters should take to the streets, repeal Prop 8, and never stop the fight to change hearts and minds. But until we make more progress on the ground, we’ll just have to leave Obama out of it. However, as you say, the history of civil rights is clearly on our side and it’s only a matter of time before we look back in embarassment and say gays were the final group that our society found it acceptable to widely discriminate against.
MS, those two gains alone would set the stage for HUGE gains moving forward, at the polls and in all of our lives.
Now to get our phreakin elected offals to MAKE IT SO!!! That’s the rub, huh . . . .
I think anger is the appropriate reaction.One of the first stages of grief.
It just needs to be properly channeled to be effective.
Teabaggers,among MANY others, have been voting against their OWN self interests for a very long time. Coming to grips with this fact is a major hurdle in and of itself…and admitting it to themselves will cause grief,I assure you.
Being conned isn’t easy to accept-or admit-but thats whats needed to stop the con from continuing.
What’s the Matter with Kansas?” comes to mind.
;->
I LIKED that!
*G*
It certainly will take longer and is entirely unhelpful of the president’s attorneys, with his approval, to liken gay marriage to incest, bestiality and pedophelia.
The way I look at our cycles of economic history since at least Reagan, we build bubbles out of houses of cards and then they pop when enough people realize what’s been going on. But shortly after the bubble pops, everyone forgets and goes back to building the house of cards again.
I might have preferred Obama had done what would theoretically be called for when he came into office and our economy was in freefall: institute strict new rules so that the economy would be rebuilt on real fundamentals and not a new house of cards. But #1, I’m not sure there are any real fundamentals left in the American economy to build growth upon. And #2, had he tried to do this while we were in freefall, he would have incurred the wrath of Wall Street, the mainstream media, and possibly most independent voters.
So I think Obama is playing a dangerous but necessary game of re-inflating our economy with some of that old bubble gas – oh, he is looking out for us, says Johnny Wall Street. Right about now, while the big money players are more comfortable and think what just happened was a normal recession, Obama needs to start transitioning the power away from Wall Street and back to the middle class. And I believe he is as exemplified in his plan to take the bailout money that’s paid back and create jobs with it.
I know this is a dicey plan and there’s any number of ways Obama might screw it up. But I’m not sure there was a better alternative for him. It’s really important to remember that Obama has few good choices – with America today it’s all about picking the least bad option.
No argument from me there – that’s crazy. I could be wrong but I doubt that language had any real world implications, and therefore I doubt Obama had any knowledge of it. I’m sure he would say that if reporters asked him about stuff like this instead of whether Desiree Rodgers is a threat to humanity.
I was quite serious. Except about calling that guy a troll, that was uncalled for, I admit. Seriously, though: We all watched the same campaign, right? Did Obama call for unilateral disarmament? Did he promise to fight to the last man on Single Payer Hill? Because I missed those speeches. The man has been doing what he said he was gonna be doing. Doing it pretty damn well, as far as I can see; and with not a hell of a lot of Love from his “Base”, whatever that word means. This may come as a violent shock to the more sheltered souls here, but some people flat out don’t agree with you. The Right has it’s 20% of True Believers, The Left has it’s 20% (of the electorate, mind you, not the population; and yes, the 20% is rough numbers). The other 60% couldn’t give a rat’s ass about your Ideologies. They care what works for them, and their families. I happen to believe that Progressives have the better ideas in most cases. Ask yourself why these ideas haven’t caught on. Yes, I know Faux Noise is Murdoch’s personal propaganda organ. I know every major media outlet is owned by, like, six megacorps with a vested interest in Unrestricted Rapine. “All politicians are liars, and nothing they say should be believed” and all that. All of this was true when you got the man into office, as well, but you frakkin’ did it! I’m sorry the guy didn’t pull the Age of Aquarius out of his ass on Inauguration Day, but let’s maybe cut him some slack, as he seems to have quite a full plate just now. If you can’t bring yourself to that, at least stop wailing about a falling sky, and the Death of the Republic every time some dude at HuffPo pokes a stick in your eye with the “Obama has sold out his People!” crap. And while I’m on the subject: I may not be as fat, or as old, as OldFatGuy, but I am old enough to remember when Arianna Huffington was pulling this same hustle from the other side of the net. My god, she’s got the CEO of the frakkin’ Disney Corporation up now, yapping about how the road to financial salvation runs through Anti-Piracy Crackdown Street, & past Unrestricted Tourism Lane.
We don’t have time to grind anymore.
Cliamte change, nuclear weapons, internet issues.
The world move MUCH MUCH MUCH faster now. Change needs to speed up as well. Because if we do nothing or try to grind out these issues it will be to late.
So yes, give up on Obama, primary his ass and make him remeber the left is crazy enough to abandon you.
Nothing will ever change until they stop taking your vote for granted, because they do.
What are you gonna do, Vote republican? As long as they know the answer to that question you are irrelivent to the Democrats..just another vote in the bag.
Obama unveils four-billion-dollar education plan
(AFP) – Jul 24, 2009
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama launched a competition to improve US educational standards, a key part of his campaign promise to make the country’s school system the best in the world.
The program, dubbed the “Race to the Top,” will encourage US states to compete for 4.35 billion dollars in federal grants with the goal of encouraging them to improve school systems.
Obama said he was “issuing a challenge” to education professionals, state and local officials, even parents and students throughout the country to meet “a few key benchmarks for reform” to obtain the grants.
“If you set and enforce rigorous and challenging standards and assessments; if you put outstanding teachers at the front of the classroom; if you turn around failing schools — your state can win a Race to the Top grant.”
The White House has said the program is central to Obama’s efforts to reform the US educational system and push it back up in international rankings, which was a key theme of his 2008 presidential campaign.
“In a world where countries that out-educate us today will out-compete us tomorrow, the future belongs to the nation that best educates it people,” he said. “But we also know that today, our education system is falling short.”
A 2008 report by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) ranked the United States 13th for the percentage of its population who have completed upper secondary education, behind countries like South Korea, Slovenia and Canada.
US students also lag behind their counterparts in industrialized nations in science and math, according to a 2006 OECD ranking, which found that 15-year-olds in the United States scored lower than the OECD average in both subjects.
Calling the program “one of the largest investments in education reform in American history,” Obama said the grants “will not only help students out-compete workers around the world, but let them fulfill their God-given potential.”
Ok, I’ll add your $4 billion on top of the $115 billion I already mentioned. So we’re at $119 billion in fresh spending on education, not including the additional permanent increases in the budget.
What Progressives think of President Obama is immaterial. Big money is his primary concern. He will do and say what he must in order to keep big money behind him by spending their millions to get him reelected. If he doesn’t, they will simply find someone else to do their bidding.
Bullshit!
We were discussing priorities, not budgets that have to be met regardless!
Improving American children’s future is worth 4B to Obama (how many children benefit?) Improving Gold Sacks bottom line is worth 12.8B to Obama.
If you cannot divine truth from fact you should go back to navel gazing.
So $115 billion of the stimulus for education was not a priority, but $4 billion is? Amazing the reasoning powers of some of the loudest of this bunch. They’re our very own birthers and deathers.
Your $115B link is broken.
Skepticism isn’t irrational when your citations aren’t backed up.
And here I thought I was the cynic. Do me a favor and look up some before and after pictures of the last few Presidents, preferably the two-termers. I’ve owned work boots that didn’t age like that in eight years. Does that job seem like fun to you? In order to accept your premise, I’d have to believe that Pres. Obama is either a power-mad megalomaniac, or he’s in it for the cheddar. Without access to his psyche profile I can’t dismiss the former, but he really doesn’t come off that way to me. As for money, if that was his goal, he had way better prospects in the legal field, and how!
It’s all academic, anyways, as the alternative is President Palin. Feel free to nominate Bernie Sanders (let’s face it, the Sanders/Palin debates would be pure Awesomeness), but understand before you do that the only reason the Progressive Movement has gotten as far as it has this year is because you backed a guy with a discriminating sense of just where Aristotle’s Mean lies. (ie- a politician)
Obama = One-term president. If we don’t run someone better, any Republican will beat him, easily. So far, the most useless president since Carter.
Republicans have been attempting to kill Public Education by pushing Charter Schools and Vouchers, to no avail.
Finally, they have found their Champion in Obama.
Screw such Democrats.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/02/obama_on_education_for_charter.html
Oops, thanks for pointing that out. Here’s the link citing Obama’s $115 billion for education…you just have to click on the education tab once you’re there.
1) Show me the candidate.
2) Show me the numbers that will support that candidate.
3) Show me the money to FIND the candidate and support the campaign.
4) Tell me how you think the DNC OR the DLC will support your efforts.
The world moves faster, sure . . . metaphorically.
We humans adapt to that or die. True.
Change, it is not subject to the rules you think it’s subject to.
GREAT change that comes rapidly usually results from acts of god (including depressions).
The rest of change moves incrementally slower one way or another, despite the efforts of both men and mice.
I can appreciate your frustration . . . but we ain’t gonna die in 30 years from either global warming OR nukes.
We MIGHT die from lack of healthcare and an erosion of our lifestyles regarding affordable shelter and ability to buy food.
“Better” in what sense? Willing to push harder for Progressive policies? A better orator? Better at getting what he wants out of his fellow Democrats? Or just all-around better at everything? Wait! I’ve got it!
Nominate Zombie Jack Kennedy!
They might support the myth, but not the President he was. JFK was to the right of Obama. In fact, with the possible exception of LBJ, the same would be true of every President.
Obama Administration OKs Oil Drilling in Arctic off Alaska
by Erika Bolstad
WASHINGTON — The Interior Department today gave the go-ahead for Shell Oil to begin drilling three exploratory wells in the Chukchi Sea, a move that opens the door for production in a new region of the Arctic.
Cap and Fade
by James Hansen
AT the international climate talks in Copenhagen, President Obama is expected to announce that the United States wants to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions to about 17 percent below 2005 levels by 2020 and 83 percent by 2050. But at the heart of his plan is cap and trade, a market-based approach that has been widely praised but does little to slow global warming or reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. It merely allows polluters and Wall Street traders to fleece the public out of billions of dollars.
Shortly after the election, Rahm placed a pod in Obama’s bed and we ended up with this replica–all suit, no soul. Where is Harry Hopkins when you need him? Many “progressives” cannot be convinced they’ve been sold-out. It’s just too painful to contemplate. “It’s too soon to judge” they say. Or “It’s Congress’ fault,” “The Blue Dogs’ fault”, “the problems are too complex”, yada, yada, yada. There is a lot of cognitive dissonance when it comes to Obama. But you can’t deny the facts, no matter how hard you try–he has not been a decisive leader and he let the magic moment when he had the wind at his back, the people behind him and a Congress frightened of defying a populist candidate during a time of crisis ebb away by insisting on silliness like ‘consensus’ and ‘bipartisanship.’ The Repubs sensed Obama’s weakness and pounced. It matters not that much of what they say is crap–the point is they co-opted the message. HCR gradually went down the tubes and so did finance reform. Timing was crucial here and Obama dithered.
It’s not true that this is $115B in new money for education according to your cite.
No longer subsidizing Sallie May and companies like EFS is a good thing for sure. But to claim $115B in education funding without stating that this funding level is approximately the same as the Bush FY2009 education budget is duplicitous – it amounts to smoke and mirrors.
No, the things Obama has done that I disagree with are not minor.
Bagram is not minor, nor is the strengthening of Bush’s policies of secrecy in the courts. The continuation of the wiretapping is not minor either, and nor are the continuation of the military commissions. And bailing out Wall Street while letting main street languish is no small issue either. Looking forward and not back, which translates to allowing war criminals to go free, is also no minor difference of opinion and actually has huge implications for the future of our government.
To me all of the above were among the worst issues of the Bush years, not small matters. And these were also issues that Obama and the Democrats decided to continue with. There have been no sign of difference splitting on them, or even debate for that matter. We are just going in one directon, and these are the areas where Obama lost me, over and above healthcare.
Well I think you’d have to put FDR at the top of the list…and men like Jefferson and Jackson in a very different historical context…then you get to maybe Truman and then LBJ, but now you’re dealing with liberals with some checkered histories regarding not-so-liberal wars – which may or may not be the category Obama falls into (hope not.)
Point is, Obama’s at least one of the top 5 most liberal presidents in history, and has the potential to get near the top of that list. So for those of you disappointed in him, I have to ask which country did you think we live in?
I believe James Carville’s theory that political eras run about 35 or 40 years and they are starkly different than the last, i.e.:
1932-1966: Liberal Era
1966-2006: Conservative Era
2006-?: Progressive Era
If you want to make that ? last for another 40 years or so, cut Obama some slack on the small stuff and hold his feet to the fire on the big stuff. If you want our country to just keep circling the drain, set some unrealistic goals and then give up on the process when they inevitably fail. Especially because we are at the start of an era of change, we need to remember how many assholes are still in Congress from the Conservative Era, and know that change won’t come easy at first. But if we push just a few more Republicans and Conservadems out (Go Halter!), we’ll finally be able to get this country headed back in the right direction (left).
Maybe that was the price for Begich’s vote for the public option (he is in the Gang of 14 after all.) Sounds like a good deal to me…make that Gang of 13, and counting…
Yes, it is new money:
“Overall, Obama’s preliminary fiscal 2010 education budget builds on the roughly $115 billion for education in the stimulus bill.”
$115b. Stimulus. New money. On top of all the additions in the budget. I forget if Arne said this was double or triple Bush.
Please stop wasting my time if you’re not even going to try to grasp the facts.
This is so much dreaming. Obamas healthcare reform is a gift to the industry which he strengthens immensely by having the govt pay their premiums.There is no open door to anything progressive here. And Afghanistan? Haven’t you noticed how his underlings are reassuring all who listen that there will be no withdrawal for a long time? Look, you are deluding yourself. Obama is not one of us.
If Obama’s not one of us, who is?
I think a good faith case could be made for FDR being as progressive as Obama, but not more. I am less willing to place Truman in that category, although it isn’t outside the real of reason.
As far as Jefferson and Jackson are concerned, no way.
You know, I think we concur except for switching the top 2…mine would be:
1. FDR
2. LBJ
3. Obama
4. Truman
5. Jackson
6. Jefferson
The majority of the stimulus money is to stabilize state education budgets. It isn’t new money for education, it is money to replace lost revenue to states so they can keep teachers working and not lay them off. The additional Pell grant funding is good, as is the move to quit giving profits to EFS and Sallie Mae.
1]LBJ
2]Obama
3]FDR
4]Truman
I admit a case for most progressive can be made for 1 through 3. But for Viet Nam, it would be LBJ without question. Plus, Obama’s standing is far from solid, he could over time move up or down this list. Hell, we aren’t a year into his administration.
My problem with Jefferson is slavery. My problem with Jackson is his treament of Native Americans.
the Trail of Tears wasn’t progressive? Ending the Second Bank of the US is a Jacksonian policy Obama should study, perhaps something similar should be considered with the Federal Reserve.
If you’re one of those teachers who would have been laid off (or one of their students, family members, etc.) it’s new money.
Money that isn’t cut from an existing budget is not new money.
Local School district has a budget of $40M. Revenues are going to be $35M due to the bad economy, meaning deferred maintenance and layoffs of 100 teachers.
Recovery money replaces that $5M and you aren’t laid off. This isn’t new money, it’s the same budget with revenue from a different source.
This money doesn’t improve education in the district. No new arts, music, extra-curricular activities, tutoring is possible. Class sizes don’t decrease; rather they don’t increase in size as would be the case without the stimulus.
Improving education would mean money going for new programs. By and large that isn’t happening with stimulus money.
Jane, you’re asking the right questions but I don’t believe you’re going far enough.
You must add:
1) Obama lies and deceives. He’s taken most of us, including us progressives. for a ride. Exhibit A: Afghanistan. yes he campaigned on an esclation, but it was only 2 brigades (8,000 men) he talked about. Now it’s 30,000 and he gave a warped and distorted rationale for why we are in Afghanistan, relying just as W did on flag-waving and 9/11. He also lied to the public about his true intentions on health care reform: he only wants “insurance reform”. He lies. He misleads. He is a salesman for the unpopular.
2) Race. Let’s talk about the hidden elephant in the room. Paul Street wrote a brilliant analysis of Obama over at ZNet in which he analyzes Obama’s sudden rise to power. Street correctly notes that the people who really run this country (the power elite; the military industrial complex) saw Obama’s racial composition as beneficial because it is more difficult for liberals/progressives to challenge someone who has the face of “an oppressed person”. Street puts it better than I do:
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/23196
Great point! I read (OK, skimmed) the article and agree with it’s main thesis, that the power centers that control politics and elections in this country (through money) saw the demise of movement conservatism and the GOP as inevitable and knew they needed to co-opt the Democratic Party (OK, more completely co-opt the Democratic Party) as well as liberal and progressive voters by backing a candidate who was much more appealing than anyone the right wing could muster but who would have a craftily disguised allegiance to most of their ideology. It strikes me as possible that the McCain/Palin ticket, as well as much of the comically bad right-wing opposition to Obama might have been, in no small part, political theater staged to make Obama look more reasonable and box in his liberal supporters. Now that would be 11-dimensional chess!
In the primaries, I was for Edwards and Kucinich and was struck at how quickly they were marginalized by the party insiders. Yeah, Edwards was hurt by the mistress thing and Kucinich does not have the media pizzaz to succeed in a national campaign but their positions on the issues seemed to me to be the essence of what the Democratic Party should stand for. Sadly, the party chose to marginalized not only these candidates but their principles in order to clear the path for Clinton and Obama, who clearly represented the conservative, corporatist and militarist wing of the party and who both had the media-friendly identity politics thing working for them (note: I think it is a disgrace that this country has not had a woman President and did not have a non-white President until last year, but I do not think this obligates me to support any particular non-white or non-male candidate).
It was at this point that I changed my voter registration to “Unaffiliated”. I did not intend to vote for either Clinton or Obama in the general election but relented in the last few days as folks I respect such as Kucinich, Russ Feingold and Bernie Sanders were endorsing Obama without reservation. I was also influenced by the five most frightening words in the English language (“Sarah Palin – nuclear launch codes”). I remember telling some relatives that I thought that the best we could expect from Obama and the Dems was a more competent execution of a watered down version of the Bush agenda. Sadly, this appears to be the case (mikesong’s and bonkers’ irrational exuberance non-withstanding).
Without some radical change in direction (and results) I cannot envision voting for Obama again in 2012. Actually, I find it difficult to envision voting for any Democrat again as the lesser evil (as 99% of the votes in my lifetime have been). Third-party or write candidates will get my vote unless there is a major party candidate who has a clear allegiance to the principles that I value.
So far as I can see just about everybody who writes for FDL counts as a progressive. I suppose you would too if you were not delusional about the lost political soul in the White House. Wake up and come fight for the causes you believe in and don’t mistake your political adversaries for your allies.No more passes for the big O.
Exactly, everyone here meets your standards, but you can’t name one person in Washington that meets your standards. I think it’s time for you to readjust your standards.
Worse, in my book. Rather than enforce the CAT treaty he penned an executive order. Result, torture is not an issue of law, it is an executive prerogative. No one else sees the arrogance in this?
Mike, you are not making sense. By what you say, when Bush and Cheney were in office, I should have become a neo-fascist like they are. No, better to keep respecting the constitution and moral sense. Unfortunately our constitutional lawyer president has gone over to the dark side: renditions, torture, signing statements, mercenary killers for soldiers, etc ; that is the Bush world and it is beyond the pale.These are major issues not quibbles. You know it as well as I do.No more passes for the big Shape up and get on board.
I knew Obama would tack to the center as soon as shit got tough.
“We’re going to have to start assessing where our loyalties lie — to the issues we say we believe in, or to the personalities we’ve attached ourselves to in the process of achieving them. The left has been largely comfortable in its belief that supporting one was the same as supporting the other. The future of a viable progressive movement is going to mean assessing where those two roads diverge.”
You can’t underestimate the impact of identity politics on so-called “liberal” support for Obama. There are many, many people for whom the past 40 years of same is *the* point of their political existance. It is the primary difference between the two major parties, and the only difference that matters to them.
They will defend Obama to the end, and that is exactly what he will run on in 2012. You see this already–at the moment, he’s running against a phantom “Sarah Palin” and the “teabaggers.” This preps the electorate’s frame of reference for 2012, irregardless of who the R nominee is.
Bam doesn’t think he has to change a thing. This is how he won the Primary campaign vs. Hillary in 2008 (race *always* trumps gender in the internecine liberal culture wars), and he thinks he can do it against the phantom Palin.
As far as people with an agenda beyond the identity of the Puppet Sovereign, Bam is is on track to be endlessly pernicious. History won’t be kind, but his pockets will be full–like Bill Clintons’s.
Chris Hedges has article on “liberal uselessness.” Indeed.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/07
“Well Rush Limbaugh has answered – it’s the rich liberals who own the banks and run the government, and of course run the media, and they don’t care about you”
Right. And the liberals have been telling their BASE that THEIR problem is white guys–blue collar white guys peculiarly enough–and “Christians” and now “teabaggers.”
Meanwhile, Limbaugh is closer to the truth on that one, too. Who is going to write the “What’s the matter with Kansas” profiling liberal idiots?
We need it…