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	<title>Comments on: The Urban Institute&#8217;s Trojan Horse, Or &#8220;Remind Me Again What the Opt-Out Got Us?&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2012 01:33:20 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: hipparchia</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64422</link>
		<dc:creator>hipparchia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64422</guid>
		<description>very kind of you. single payer is the furthest right i want to go, so i think this puts me left of the left of the left. or something. :) but you are correct, i have zero desire to shoot anybody.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>very kind of you. single payer is the furthest right i want to go, so i think this puts me left of the left of the left. or something. :) but you are correct, i have zero desire to shoot anybody.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64355</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64355</guid>
		<description>mind blowing actually.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mind blowing actually.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Aschbacher</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64317</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Aschbacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64317</guid>
		<description>The irony is palpable, isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The irony is palpable, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64310</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64310</guid>
		<description>hipparchia, Sorry, I don&#039;t see anything extreme about you. Now, if you were advocating armed overthrow of the Government, or replacement of the present constitutional system with a dictatorship of the uninsured, then you&#039;d be an extreme advocate of SP. As it is now you&#039;re just a citizen of a democracy who favors a particular policy solution to a problem. Big deal! What&#039;s extreme about that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hipparchia, Sorry, I don&#8217;t see anything extreme about you. Now, if you were advocating armed overthrow of the Government, or replacement of the present constitutional system with a dictatorship of the uninsured, then you&#8217;d be an extreme advocate of SP. As it is now you&#8217;re just a citizen of a democracy who favors a particular policy solution to a problem. Big deal! What&#8217;s extreme about that?</p>
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		<title>By: doubleaseven</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64255</link>
		<dc:creator>doubleaseven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 09:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64255</guid>
		<description>Have Dems put their brains on the shelf? Do they not get that this kind of crappy public option, no cost control and no manifest benefits in 2010 will spell their doom? Is Obama beholden to Rahm the total Corporate Tool? No other logic makes sense. 

On Countdown, Sheldon Whitehouse&#039;s announced his capitulation, from Robust Public Option to Trigger is shameful. As Nancy Pelosi said a Trigger is an excuse for doing nothing. Thus Whitehouse joins the ranks of do nothing Dems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have Dems put their brains on the shelf? Do they not get that this kind of crappy public option, no cost control and no manifest benefits in 2010 will spell their doom? Is Obama beholden to Rahm the total Corporate Tool? No other logic makes sense. </p>
<p>On Countdown, Sheldon Whitehouse&#8217;s announced his capitulation, from Robust Public Option to Trigger is shameful. As Nancy Pelosi said a Trigger is an excuse for doing nothing. Thus Whitehouse joins the ranks of do nothing Dems.</p>
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		<title>By: hipparchia</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64254</link>
		<dc:creator>hipparchia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 08:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64254</guid>
		<description>well, i&#039;m an extreme advocate of sp, unabashedly so, and i have been trolling the comments here [and at other blogs], hoping to let people know that if they want single payer and not a public option, that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.correntewire.com/you_are_not_radical_you_are_not_extremist_you_are_not_alone&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;they are not alone&lt;/a&gt;.

so when i&#039;m not blogging, or trolling on other peoples blogs, i&#039;m out talking to my friends and neighbors about medicare for all, in person, face-to-face [and generally one-on-one, so it&#039;s a slooooow business]. it&#039;s not flashy like being on tv or influencing congresscritters, and it&#039;s not nearly as much fun as &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.correntewire.com/progressives_these_who_needs_enemies&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;making fun of people&lt;/a&gt;, and granted, it&#039;s not even real organizing, but movements don&#039;t grow without it.

and besides, talking, actual moving-your-mouth talking, none of this here keyboarding stuff, is what i&#039;m best at. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, i&#8217;m an extreme advocate of sp, unabashedly so, and i have been trolling the comments here [and at other blogs], hoping to let people know that if they want single payer and not a public option, that <a href="http://www.correntewire.com/you_are_not_radical_you_are_not_extremist_you_are_not_alone" rel="nofollow">they are not alone</a>.</p>
<p>so when i&#8217;m not blogging, or trolling on other peoples blogs, i&#8217;m out talking to my friends and neighbors about medicare for all, in person, face-to-face [and generally one-on-one, so it's a slooooow business]. it&#8217;s not flashy like being on tv or influencing congresscritters, and it&#8217;s not nearly as much fun as <a href="http://www.correntewire.com/progressives_these_who_needs_enemies" rel="nofollow">making fun of people</a>, and granted, it&#8217;s not even real organizing, but movements don&#8217;t grow without it.</p>
<p>and besides, talking, actual moving-your-mouth talking, none of this here keyboarding stuff, is what i&#8217;m best at. :)</p>
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		<title>By: libbyliberal</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64199</link>
		<dc:creator>libbyliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64199</guid>
		<description>:)  ((((lets))))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>:)  ((((lets))))</p>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64160</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 03:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64160</guid>
		<description>Of course, the failure of the PO will play into the Republican narrative about the ineffectiveness of Government in solving social problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, the failure of the PO will play into the Republican narrative about the ineffectiveness of Government in solving social problems.</p>
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		<title>By: selise</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64150</link>
		<dc:creator>selise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64150</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Maybe some people just aren’t familiar with the negotiating process, but generally when you are going to give something up, you ask what you’re going to “get” for it before you start telling everyone you think it’s a great idea.

And yet there was no shortage of “liberals” who said that anyone who objected to it was “rigid” and “dogmatic,” the kind of “purists” that they just didn’t want to associate themselves with.  Who should be very careful, you know, because if they just weren’t willing to compromise, they could kill health care reform period, and then where would all the poor suffering people be.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

welcome to my world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Maybe some people just aren’t familiar with the negotiating process, but generally when you are going to give something up, you ask what you’re going to “get” for it before you start telling everyone you think it’s a great idea.</p>
<p>And yet there was no shortage of “liberals” who said that anyone who objected to it was “rigid” and “dogmatic,” the kind of “purists” that they just didn’t want to associate themselves with.  Who should be very careful, you know, because if they just weren’t willing to compromise, they could kill health care reform period, and then where would all the poor suffering people be.</p></blockquote>
<p>welcome to my world.</p>
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		<title>By: DrZen</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/30/the-urban-institutes-trojan-horse-or-remind-me-again-what-the-opt-out-got-us/#comment-64135</link>
		<dc:creator>DrZen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 01:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=6461#comment-64135</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to know what you think you &quot;got&quot; when you &quot;gave away&quot; single payer, a strong public option etc etc. Do you really believe that strong and unrelenting opposition from liberal activists would have had zero influence? If you believe you are influential, don&#039;t you think your support for trading down to just better than nothing had an influence? You could have fought, without giving an inch, for single payer from day one. You think caving was better? What did you get though? There was always going to be &lt;em&gt;something&lt;/em&gt; in it for the masses. The question was always going to be how small the elites could make that something. So what did you actually get?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to know what you think you &#8220;got&#8221; when you &#8220;gave away&#8221; single payer, a strong public option etc etc. Do you really believe that strong and unrelenting opposition from liberal activists would have had zero influence? If you believe you are influential, don&#8217;t you think your support for trading down to just better than nothing had an influence? You could have fought, without giving an inch, for single payer from day one. You think caving was better? What did you get though? There was always going to be <em>something</em> in it for the masses. The question was always going to be how small the elites could make that something. So what did you actually get?</p>
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