Well, it would be nice if we won a big one. Maybe this will be it.

PhRMA and the Progressive Block. Strange bedfellows, indeed. But if it’ll get Joe to STFU…

Geez. I read the title as “Is PhRMA Afraid of Progressive Rock?” I know some people might be put off by King Crimson, ELP or especially the French group Magma but Genesis has some pretty melodic stuff. My bad.

from your lips to the godesses’ ears.

So, PhRMA is choosing the lesser of two evils for the bottom line and we might just have to embrace PhRMA briefly as the enemy of my enemy?

Politics certainly has it’s twists and turns, don’t it?

Wonder when AHIP will start attacking PhRMA.

We all know major legislation is hacked out behind the curtains in endless log rolling sessions between Congressmen in contact with their shadows on K Street in order to perpetuate the interests of those on Wall Street. We know the “democracy” part consists mostly of conflicting interests on Wall Street battling it out to sustain deals more lucrative to their own slices of the economic pie. Again, behind the scenes.

We know all this and we know it is going to take one hell of a lot more than sending emails to Harry Reid to change it.

We know this, but we don’t do nearly enough of what has to be done to really change it. Namely, take the “progressive block” out of Congress, out of the DLC Democratic Pary, and put it instead into a new generation of Martin Luther Kings and others committed to creating and sustaining grassroot movements committed to applying pressure from below.

Without that all the rest is smoke and mirrors perpetuated by the mainstream media.

Whether health care reform dies completely or is forced to go through reconciliation, both would be equally bad news for PhRMA.

Why would having it die be bad for PhRMA?

I don’t think you fully grasp just how sweet the deal the Obama administration cut with PhRMA. They want the bill to pass really bad.

How about we wait until the Nov 2010 elections rather than storm Congress next week. Both are messy but with elections there’s usually less violence.

Obama wants the bill to pass for all it does for big pharma but does not want it to pass with the public option thus the Congressional kabuki that’s on going. Obama/Rham want anything they can sign and would be more than happy to drop the public option. And Washington is “surprised” by the cynicism in the country.

We know all this and we know it is going to take one hell of a lot more than sending emails to Harry Reid to change it.

I don’t disagree with much of what you wrote, but you might give more credit where credit is due:

FDL Action’s Fund Organizers in Arkansas: Dare Blanche Lincoln to Filibuster the Public Option.

FDL Action’s Reconciliation = Majority Rule. (Glad to see that the goal was raised another $5,000, btw!)

FDL Statement on the Committee Passage of H.R. 1207, the Paul-Grayson Bill to Audit the Fed (Nov 19, 2009) and Help Us Help Alan Grayson Save Federal Reserve Audit Bill (Nov 20, 2009).

Well this is an interesting and unexpected twist. Funny, too. Thanks for the post.

Not long ago in a century past an election was stolen by the Republicans and to fortify their thievery they started a war against a country that had not attacked the USA and political patroitism overcame common sense.

Now the Republicans are at war with the American people attacking their very own health and medical treatment with convoluted patriotic fervor. If the Republicans win they could have as much as 65% or more of the voters against them. This also is true with DINOs.

As with unpopular wars unpopular political decisions cause much consternation with the population at large. The politicians will pay for their misguilded efforts to subvert the peoples wishes. Health care for all now, a robust public option would make us a happy and prosperous nation just when our country needs a boost economicaly.

Because if the bill passes, their White House sweetheart deal is locked in for years. If the bill dies, the deal dies with it. The next time Congress takes up Health Care (in January hopefully) the lowest lying fruit around is prescription drug prices, The United States Government already gets rock bottom drug (and medical device) pricing by negotiating through the Department of Veterans Affairs. If Congress voted to allow Medicaid, Medicare (or their worst fears realized, a new Medicare for All) to use the VA has Uncle Sam’s single drug pricing negotiator, that $80 billon reduction over 10 years (the WH deal) will look more like $80 billion reduction EVERY year.

WHAT “progressive block”????

I’m certainly not opposed to working inside the Democratic Party to change things. I just see the narrative in the media as endlessly revolving around the Democrats vs. Republicans. But with respect to crony capitalism [the incestuous copulation between Washington and Wall Steet] the health care industry makes no distinction at all between the two parties. Any public interest web cite [Common Cause, OpenSecrets] will confirm this in spades.

Next Spring there is to be a March on Washington by progressive forces. In my view, if it does not attrack hundreds of thousands of really angry citizens….if it fizzles instead…progressives will be stuck with the DLC Democratic leadership for years to come. That’s not even close to change we can believe in.

With respect to the most hard core economic and foreign policy issues the Democrats and the Republican both embrace Wall Street and the ruling class. Yes, it really does exist—just not in a Marxist sense.

@ Jon Walker & beowulf

I was making an attempt at the socratic method.

Both you and beowulf aptly point out how much of a canard this whole thing is. Why, when we can ask ourselves these simple questions, and rightly conclude with a preponderance of the evidence, that this whole thing is a massive regressive transfer of wealth to PhRMA and AHIP, is every other article on this site a call to action to entrench it?

Reading all the garbage about how important these myriad public option proposals are to completely dubious goal du jour has been like sitting through an AA meeting with nothing but newcomers still in the denial phase.

I agree. Many special interest groups do not make a distinction between the two parties. Most any politician can be purchased.
The big money people control things pretty much as they always have. I don’t like it but who would want a statist utopia like the progressives promote?
Not me. I guess what we have now is the lesser of two evils.

The problem is that the focus is on soft-right Democrats, not on the Republicans, so if reform fails, it’s the Democrats who will be left with the blame. And rightly so. I wonder how Blanche Lincoln would feel to know that in 50 years she will not be lauded as the senator who prevented government-run health care, but excoriated as the senator who prevented it. The grandchildren of people who die of perfectly preventable disorders today will ask why they never met grandpa, and the answer will be “Senator Lincoln is why.”

The Eshoo Amendment, for one thing, in the House bill!!!

And with forced insurance mandates, it might mean more pharm sales!

Untold billions of more sales!

Just two reasons.

Yeah, thanks to Jon Walker yet again for keep us up to speed on teh newahnces . . . man, talk about myriad.

Beautifully said, Beo . . . and spot phreakin on.

Relaxed drug pricing as a result of what you said, combined with allowed access to foreign markets for drugs (Canada) would lower the COST and kill the profiteering of PhARMA.

I’m all for that, as much as I’m for re introduction of anti trust measures against PhARMA, and a breaking of the back of their patent controls.

The bastards jump in after years and $Billions of investment, research and clinical trials on the part of university funded work (OUR TAX DOLLARS!), toss in some $400 Million to pass FDA, and get billions the first year and years after. I call that excessive profiteering and gouging of the american public, one and all.

Bastards.

Again, thanks for your comment, loved it.

By next spring, if that march on DC is crafted and framed properly, it could get millions from unemployed, uninsured, and greatly unhappy antiwar folks.

Sad but true, it might bring out the TeaBaggers and whacko’s on the right, too.

Failure of FISA, TARP, HCR, and antiwar policy on the part of WE THE PEOPLE is gonna steamroll downhill like an out of control freight train on a mountain railroad, with Casey Jones at the wheel, high on cocaine.

Nathan, I don’t think you read the articles and practices of FDL like we read the articles and practices of FDL.

Your thing is not like the other.

The glass is half full in a different way from your half empty.

Maybe you’d be happier reading Politico?

Or dueling windmills at The Orange Satan?

You’ve sure proven yer not happy here . . .

Why make yerself (and us) more miserable on a daily basis?

Have a drink! Smoke a joint! Take some drugs!

Blog at Politico!

You’ll feel MUCH better, I promise.

The pony you want is not here, it’s over there.

You just previously explicitly pointed out that this thing is a massive gift to PhRMA, and then proceeded to wave that all away without a peep, and then immediately castigate me for pointing out that you’ve done so.

I’m only repeatedly asking the questions, because they continue to go unanswered.

If the exchange enforces the individual mandate, then there’s no reason to require the public option to be the insurer of last resort. All it does is give license to the private insurers in the exchange to dump the sick on the public, and take the young and healthy for themselves. Not to mention that the public option was never billed as being the insurer of last resort, it was supposed to be open to everybody, on day one, etc. etc. etc.

If the currently strongest public option proposal is only capable of saving $2.5 Billion per year (to the government) with as generous a reading as possible (almost to the point of misrepresentation) of the CBO data, and completely ignoring lots of extremely valid questions, then what is the point? It’s not even the kind of year-over-year savings that we malign the opposition with as being nothing more than the wishes of unicorns and fairy-dust.

What pony is it that I want exactly? Some level of logical accountability for the assertions being promoted and organized for? I somehow seriously doubt I’d get any more of it at Politico, seeing as how it’s essentially an establishment joint. If FDL doesn’t want my contributions and questions, then they can kick me to the curb, in the meantime you’re welcome to ignore me. Plenty of other people, including folks like Jason whom I’m sure is tired as anybody of being called into question, are largely capable of engaging in good faith, and that’s why I post here. Because, on the whole, a discussion of some utility and validity ensues.

Why are we giving this gift to PhRMA, and what are we getting in return? It sure as hell isn’t quality, affordable healthcare for every American.

Ahh, very nice. We may have hit on how to make HCR happen via the only way anything gets done in this country: get one set of elites to wage war on another.

People really have to stop thinking that importing drugs fom Canada will provide any relief in this country at all. Just who do you think controls the amount of product avaialable for sale in Canada? The pharma companies do. And, they know how much supply they need to have in Canada to support the needs of Canadians. They certainly would NEVER ship enough drugs into Canada to handle both the needs of Canadians and to allow importation into the US. And, if Canadian pharmacies started to ship enough drugs into the US to cause shortages in Canada, the Canadian government would swiftly make it illegal to export drugs into the US from Canada.

Canada and several European companies CONTROL the price of drugs to a level that is artificially low. And, the US consumers (and consumers in any other country without price controls) make up the difference.

What really needs to happen is for a FAIR price to be implemented globally. Those countries currently with price controls may have to start paying more while the uSA should start paying less. The consumers in the USA should NOT be subsidizing the lower prices in other countries. But, that is exactly what we are doing.

Why am I not surprised that you disappeared from the thread?

Your comments are always incisive and appreciated. Keep posting!