Signed.

Reconciliation. Now.

Would someone, please point us to an explanation of Reconciliation.

Sen. Harkin, I believe said that reconciliation would put this bill into the loving hands of the Baucus committee. – where is that a good thing?

Josh Marshall makes the case that inclusion/exclusion of a weak PO should not be allowed to derail passage of the bill.

IMO without a PO the rest of the bill will do more harm than good but perhaps Josh believes scoring a win for the Dems trumps all else.

Signed and message left.

Signed and gave a bit to the cause. Thank you, Jane!

But, he appears to be correct in his evaluation of the effectiveness, and value of the PO, – which is likely to get whittled down some more.

Do you know what exactly you are signing?
Can you explain reconciliation for me/us ?

He was invited to dine with the President about a month ago.

Veal. It’s what’s for dinner.

With a PO, even the stronger weak-version in the House bill, the net effect is that the government saves purportedly as much as $2.5 Billion per year, based on a generous reading of the data.

$2.5 Billion per year is a rounding error with the kinds of Dollar amounts we’re dealing with in this market.

Unless one views the PO as an insurer of last resort, which presumably even the private plans in the exchange would function as, there seems to be little point in its inclusion. Yeah, it’s possibly a marginal improvement, but considering the purported savings, and the suspect interpretation of the data to arrive at that number, it’s a very, very marginal improvement.

It’s an awfully dubious policy point to go to the mat over in its current form in either house.

At this point I want the weak mandate penalties from the Senate version in the final bill, so that I can pay a meager yearly flat fee for the privilege of holding out until the last possible minute that some travesty strikes, and then buy a policy; soaking the insurance company in the process.

. . . the power to pass a public option is squarely in Harry Reid’s hands.

Someehow, I don’t feel reassured. All the more reason to sign, i guess.

Signed.

Left the following message:

Senator Reid,

The public health insurance option rests entirely on your shoulders. You must either get the corrupt Democratic senators – Ben Nelson, Mary Landrieu, Blanche Lincoln and Joe Lieberman – in line, or use other means at your disposal to pass a public option.

The Republicans, who have made themselves largely irrelevant in our country’s current debate over health care reform during this crisis, have already established a clear precedent for working within the Senate rules to ensure that the majority can rule in the Senate. In 2001, they passed tax cuts for the wealthy by means of reconciliation.

Now you must show them all that you not only have the power to use reconciliation to pass health care reform with a public health insurance option, but that you have the courage of your convictions to do it if a handful of corrupt Democratic senators force the vast majority of the Democratic Caucus in the Senate to pass a public option with a majority vote.

No more compromises with people who are trying to block a public option one way or another. No more watering down the public health insurance option. No triggers.

The public health insurance option rests entirely on your shoulders.

Thank you.

Sincerely,
Brc

I also pledge to make a contribution to FDL Action’s Reconciliation = Majority Rule today.

Thanks, Jane!

Josh’s post falls more in the category of “food for thought” than being a strong stance one way or the other. Still, progressives have been pressured to make one concession after another since the beginning of the process while the opposing side makes none. Enough is enough.

I’m so torn on this: I am so sick of landreiu and lincoln frozen like the dear in the headlights because they are so afraid of losing the support of the insurance lobby, yet they know their constituencies support it. Part of me wants Harry Reid to come down hard on them, everyone could — oh I don’t know, grow a pair —

The realist in me, though, wants to get some through for the President to sign so that the advocates of “no” can’t claim victory.

But really, landreiu and lincoln and nelson, what is their problem. People need help and they need for their reps to show some conviction. They are just getting boring.

If you’re standing there with a lump of poo in your hand, and someone comes by and asks for it, you’re better off with them holding the piece of shit than you.

It’s a strange line to have drawn in the sand.

As the majority leader of the Senate, the power to pass a public option is squarely in Harry Reid’s hands. Will he let three or four corrupt Senators owned by the insurance industry hold the public option hostage? Or will he use the reconciliation process to allow a simple, democratic majority rule

Again, reading this one gets the impression the battle for genuine healthcare reform revolves around the Evil Republicans vs. Good Guy Democrats.

But that is not how the healthcare industry views it, of course.

From the OpenSecrets.org website:

Since 1990, the healthcare industry has contributed $866,542,699 to Congress. Of that total $378,514,292 [44%] went to Democrats and $484,206,826 [56%] went to Republicans.

But in 2008, $90,106,858 [54%] went to Democrats and $76,366,643 [46%] went to Republicans

And thus far in the 2010 campaigns, $22,717,230 [59%] is going to the Democrats and $15,657,332 [41%] is going to Republicans.

You connect the dots.

Sure, you can point out how much more corrupt some members of Congress are than others. But the whole sytemic exchange between Wall Street, K Steet, the White House and Congress is inherently tainted. And Reid is smack dab in the middle of all this. Take a gander at his own corporate take—the top 5 contributers:

Lawyers/Law Firms $3,633,492
Casinos/Gambling $1,571,920
Real Estate $1,070,556
Securities & Investment $1,044,885
Health Professionals $1,016,551

And why in the world should the insurance industry shills be all that concerned about a public option that is nothing short of a farce? They got exactly what they wanted. A tiny percentage able to participate—5 years from now.

The huffing and puffing on their part now is just a way to make it appear that the PO is still a huge thorn in their side. Thus when it passes it can be made to appear as a big “victory” for the progressives.

It’s just a huge charade.

Follow the frickin’ Money!

Goldman Sachs expects insurance stocks to rise by 59% in 10 years if there is no public option, but drop by 36% if there is one

I might have read that report wrong but I believe the delta was minus 36 percent, not a drop of 36 percent, that’s a huge differance

It’s all about “face time” and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, of course.
The thing that gets me is the support these idjits get from the WH…nobody is supposed to challenge them.
Even Clinton scolded Olbermann for his support fo the free clinics in AR, callign them “politizing”. That really burns me while the corporate media never lets on how much people are suffering form these monopolies and the tea baggers are being used against their own best interests, marching for the super rich.
It’s crazy.
I’m all for them growing a pair….of mammaries!;0) The “balls” don’t seem to be doing us much good anymore

via kossack Casual Wednesday (one of Kagro’s minions)

Reconciliation…

…is utilized when Congress issues directives to legislate policy changes in mandatory spending (entitlements) or revenue programs (tax laws) to achieve the goals in spending and revenue contemplated by the budget resolution. First used in1980 this process was used at the end of a fiscal year to enact legislation to fine tune revenue and spending levels through legislation that could not be filibustered in the Senate. The policy changes brought about by this part of the budget process have served as constraints on the levels of mandatory spending and federal tax revenues which also has served since 1981 as a vehicle for deficit reduction.

Reconciliation is immune to a filibuster because debate is limited to 20 hours by the statute. That’s why we are considering using reconciliation to pass health care reform, or at least the public option. With out the filibuster threat, the Democrats only need to muster 50 votes plus the vice president’s tie breaker for passage.

Budget Committee — Kent Conrad is the chair, almost as bad

Keep the pressure up. Reid is not the only player here. Obama and Rahm are working behind the scenes to get this thing through with a public option that can evolve into something like a real choice. Obama is extremely hard-headed, and he is certainly not afraid, and won’t be bluffed. The Dems need a health bill more than he does to get re-elected. I’m sure someone will be making this point for him if he or she isn ‘t making it already. This is not your Clinton administration, which had to tack back and forth like crazy to make just a little headway. Bill was always in danger of losing the next election, and everything he did was predicated on that not happening. Obama is made of stronger stuff, and as long as the Thugs have only Palin or Huckabee to oppose him, he is in a stronger position. The key for us is to keep the pressure up.

Signed!
Thank you again Jane…your energy is inspiring!

Signed. Gave up some dust earlier today.

Hey, dakine01. *waving*

Josh has occasional outbreaks of Insider Wannabee Disease.

Jane is just so awesome I can hardly stand it.

*g*

Thanks TD.

Kent Conrad (Dem-Wellpoint) will be reconciling HC on behalf of…..???

Bernie Sanders, and Russ Feingold are on the Budget Committee, – anyone know what they think about the value of Reconciliation process on behalf of HCR?

I saw on CNBC this morning how well Big Pharma stocks have done since their backroom deal with Mr. Transparency. Today health insurance company stocks are doing very well. Grab your ankles and smile real pretty, folks. Looks like the fix is in.

Justjoe, SouthernDragon, dakine, yellowsnapdragon, etc.

What are you expecting from reconciliation? What are you signing – please share!

Senator Sanders has repeatedly expressed his support for going the reconciliation route

signed and commented. appreciate your efforts Jane; to bad Molly Ivins isn’t still around.

not that I disagree with you – but Senator Dorgan was making noises last month about introducing a floor amendment that would shred WH/PhRMa deal

Specific example:

California and Louisiana each have two Senate votes.
But very different populations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California
36,756,666 (2008 est.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana
Total 4,410,796 (2008 est.)

For either David Vitter or Landrieu to claim that they vote on behalf of the majority of Americans is pure nonsense.

Note that both DiFi and Boxer are strongly pro-public option.
That single state alone has most of the US economy, as well as a huge population.

Then add Schumer into the mix with his population, and you’re probably about equal to the combined populations of Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, and a bunch of other ‘red’ states.

There’s too much focus on ‘Senate numbers’ that gives far, far too much statistical weight to ‘Senate votes’.

Senate votes are very much out of skew with the actual population distribution of the U.S.

That’s why the House is called ‘Representative’.

thanks cbl2!

So, now there is Jane & Bernie giving this route thumbs up, – off to sign the petition!

Looks like there are about 8 Californians for every single Louisiana citizen.

But Boxer and DiFi each get one vote apiece.
As do Vitter and Landrieu.

If that weren’t the case, the GOP would already be toast.

That’s my concern. I’ve heard that reconciliation would mean the bill would be written by the Budget Committee, which I understand is a very conservative committee.

Can Jane or someone with inside knowledge explain how a good PO can come out of the reconciliation process? I understand a simple filibuster-proof majority, but is there a way to keep Conrad from making it a really crappy bill?

This is a serious question, not a disguised criticism. I want to be on board, but I also need to understand it better.

Well if Jane and Bernie Sanders are on board, who am I to question?

The landed founding fathers sure knew how to set up a rigged system of government.

Well, we cannot all be parlamentarians, – got to trust someone, just make sure we choose wisely. Obama, – not the guy I would trust, – nor did I.

Okey-dokey, I signed:

This is too important to leave up to the usual political shenanigans. Americans need real help now, not another faux reform that just funnels more of our money into corporate coffers.

It looks to We the People like every Republican and a handful of Democrats are willing to sell out the American people to keep the spigot of corporate cash flowing into their campaign war chests.

Make no mistake, We the People are fed up. It’s not just the teabaggers who are angry.

headed out the door (I’m coming awready!) but google Congress Matters (David Waldman) he’s posted on it a few times.

In terms of reconciliation, what amendments might be stripped from the Senate Bill?

And edited after reading more above, who DOES get to determine the final Senate bill content if reconcil IS imposed?

My allusion to amendment stripping comes from thinking I read something here at FDL regarding the reconcil process . . . . aren’t NON budget amendments stripped?

So, if recon, what do we lose, or stand to lose?

Losing Stupak or Eshoo would NOT disappoint me!

But, I’m NOT well versed in the process at all, and depend upon the kindness of other Pups to banter about my thoughts and ‘splain it all . .

And I know, it’s STILL too early to even know what are going to be facing in the Senate, yet!

Lots of clever ball games in dark rooms yet to be played before a final bill is resolved in both Chambers, if we ever GET to that point.

And that’s my SECOND question du jour:

What’s bad about having the Senate reject the bill when it comes for approval?

Is NO legislation at this point better than a major giveaway?

I just can’t see imposed mandates to buy, and a weak PO (if any) for only the sick that will DOOM reform and Dem’s when it fails as being any kind of gains at all . . . not when it all starts in ’14.

And as others have suggested, forcing pre existing on private insurers does NOT mean the COST of that will be regulated OR reformed! Ergo, more bankruptcies of anyone with serious life long, chronic or immediate issues.

Eager to see responses . .

Well..I am expecting Reid to do some tricky Senate stuff ala LBJ when he was a Senator…sorry, my brain is doing 2 on a scale of 10 today. But I am sure that if you google ‘Reconciliation Senate’ you’ll find the explanation…ok here it is…from wikipedia:

“Reconciliation is a legislative process of the United States Senate intended to allow a contentious budget bill to be considered without being subject to filibuster. Because reconciliation limits debate and amendment, the process empowers the majority party.”

Now go sign! And next time trust Jane?

As much as I appreciate and admire her efforts, I can no longer in good conscience support Jane’s push for this thoroughly gutted and almost meaningless PO. I finally realize that Medicare For All/single payer should be our starting and ending point for reform. Hacker’s PO and similar reforms will become too nebulous and comprimised.

Yeah, it’s gotta be really uncomfortable to get pants’d over and over again. standing there in nothing but your birthday suit, things get chilly.

Oh, does that sound like I feel sorry for them? I don’t. Hang them out to dry and let ‘em freeze…just like they’re doing to us.

(((cbl2))) Woman who runs with the real dogs.

I’d certainly question WHAT pro public option options Sci Fi might actually support . . . . I posit she is NOT pro public option, unless it’s watered down as much as possible so it don’t interfere with the business of America, which is transferring wealth upwards. Which is Sci Fi’s job one as Senator.

The original concept for our government was that those who owned property, and by extension were wealthy because they controlled so much real property, should control the country. Direct election of Senators didn’t happen until the 17th Amendment in 1913. Both political parties are very much moving towards a return to the time prior to the 17th Amendment.

They don’t call conservatives reactionary for nothing. *g*

As far as what to sign and where…here it is:

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/23/its-harry-reids-choice-reconciliation-majority-rule/

Are links like this ok to post here?
Guess I’ll find out.

Well this is really our failing to reform the foundations of our government procedures and structure following the Civil War.

The original setup favored creating balance between the states, viewing them as strong autonomous governments. The Civil War changed all that with a shift to viewing the states as significantly less autonomous, and with an understanding of balance between people (not states) as being increasingly important. Yet, we did essentially nothing to codify the change in history from a confederacy to federation in how our government actually functions.

Jeez, I should have edited a bit more on my #42.

Senate Bill. No Eshoo, No Stupak, at this point, not relevant.

Sigh. Sorry.

I do subscribe to Regans dictum:’ trust but verify’

“Reconciliation is a legislative process of the United States Senate intended to allow a contentious budget bill to be considered without being subject to filibuster. Because reconciliation limits debate and amendment, the process empowers the majority party.”

So how will the PO shake out given your googling ability – oh, smart one?

Here’s The Whole Wiki, Not Clear To Me WHO Decides WHAT Committee(s) Submit Final Legislation.

Agreed, but really, we have failed at so many reforms, and more so, having failed at ‘reforming’ our relationship as citizens with the military industrial complex, we end up creating better health care systems in countries after we bomb them, than we do here.
As Dennis Kucinnich said on the House floor recently…”Who are these people???…Who are we???”.

Majority rule on a budget committee sausage. Does that still count as Majority rule?

Can’t really tell, yet. So, questions is SOMEWHAT off the beaten track of WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT!

NEXT, being the key word.

Knowing WHO decides WHAT committee(s) will WRITE the final legislation is a key question, though.

And then, both chambers have to MERGE their legislations, and then yet again VOTE again to pass final piece.

We are in seriously end game steps here, and each one is huge. Gotta stick to the step at hand (reconciliation good) before deciding what to support or oppose in NEXT step.

Complicated stuff . . . more than I can wrap around fully . . . I’m leaning towards fail the crap present legislation in one chamber or the other and hope we can start all over for something better with more pressure brought to bear from all that’s been learned to date.

But that’s just too far out as I don’t know what will happen in this step, OR the next one.

I only now have an idea of what the procedural steps ARE!

And calling out others to tell me what the end results are for ANY of the remaining steps seems a bit, off target, to me. Asking others to explain what’s going on, is one thing.

Deriding them when they answer your question ‘what IS reconciliation’, which WAS answered BTW, by then taunting them with ‘so what will happen’ is a bit erm . . . not how I’d handle your need for answers.

If you HAVE a need for answers, that is.

Seems when you get ONE answer, you move the stage a bit further right, almost like a provacation . . . .

Just sayin . . .

“smart one’? you got the wrong idea…old, poor, retired one, is more like it
I can play some mean jazz piano though, or so I am told.
How will it shake out? it probably won’t happen…but with all the work Jane is doing…I figure she deserves a little support.

If it is in the final bill, it might just pay for the next repair you need…if you can wait a few years, and if you can’t afford your own private health care, and if the repukes don’t dismantle it, and if, and if…
google the future, and get back to me?

*G*

I was not reacting to even that, so much as to what I red as a supercilious and patronizing attitude: “Now go sign! And next time trust Jane?”

Had the answer been more persona;ized than a Wikipedia entry copy and paste ( we all can google) I might have reacted differently.

signed the petition a little while ago Jane-thanks

This thread was posted earlier, apparently a mistake because it was soon un posted. Left a message there. Any reason it’s not here?
Fuckno — just to let you know there were no cookies involved.

Jane is about Issues not Party, which makes her so rare and special. That tells me that before she accepts the party line she verifies.

Signed earlier, Jane. As always, thanks for setting this thing up.

Thanks for picking up on that bit of strangeness!
Yeah, he/she… reminds me of a drummer I used to gig with…he goaded us all…it worked for the music for a while, though.
But dumb me, I got talked into taking him on a wilderness trek, and ended up in the parking lot after a few weeks and my van was gone…the drummer got scared in a storm, and being basically afraid of new places, new ideas,and not knowing what was in his future, he ended up going back home in my van…leaving me stranded…hundreds of miles from home…But I got back and kept gigging. He’s now a butcher in a small town drinking himself to death, whereas I live near the mountains, and still backpack and play music now and then.
And I can search the web with or w/o the google now!

Thanks again for standing up…there are always bullies.

A public option of any kind is a “slippery slope” problem for corporatists. Its passage would create the prospect of hope that the sound and lights might be turned off; the earmuffs, gloves and blinders might be removed; and the people might be allowed to have a glimpse, not of freedom, but of their government working in their interest. For them, the PO cannot be allowed, not even if it is so poorly designed that it fails to achieve its stated purpose and sours people further on the prospect that government – for which they pay their entire lives – can and should help meet their needs.

That’s why, in the end, a PO is a line in the sand. Once implemented, it can be improved, its availability widened, its competitive powers enhanced, its precedent spread to other problems.

Holding out for this PO is not about letting the “perfect” get in the way of the good. This bill and this option are already imperfect in ugly ways. It’s about engaging in a fight with the fixers, the insiders, the haves, about whether government listens only to them. And that’s why they are fighting so hard to defeat it in any form.

The PO’s success might spell problems not just for insuresters and, by implication, banksters and others. It spells problems for the Congresscritters who vote against it. Almost all of them are squeezing corporations for money to oppose the PO while they can. When that money fails to yield results, it will go elsewhere, as should the individual Congresscritters who have sold us, as well as their souls, to the devil.

“Now go sign! And next time trust Jane?” @ 43

I took offense to the above. Felt it somewhat bullying.

Reconsiliation is all well and good, but for the long haul I think changes in the filibuster rules are in order. If it is changed down to 54, it will surely get HCR done, and will come in handy after 2010 when the 58 Dem Senator count shrinks. If it is not done, gridlock will be the (non) operative word till 2016!

It’s happens to everyone, sometimes.

Well, I do apologize for being impersonal, and somehow seeming to bully you. At least you got an old story…way to personal?…out of me.
I guess that since this is a new way of communicating for me, I’ll have to go slower…it seems so fast paced here.
This healthcare/insurance reform is so important, that even Ed Shultz has become a real liberal warrior…or so it seems.
Again, sorry for the mis-understanding.

Go to reconciliation for this PO? Hell no! Strip this weak PO from the bill, pass a real PO using reconciliation. If you’re going to do something, do it right.

It is over. It has been over for some time now. The PO has been reduced to little more than a phrase without content. It may not even survive the process but even if it does it will provide nothing to build on. And it could still be spiked or weakened even further down the road. I wish I knew what the endgame or point was to this beating of a dead horse. Cutting Medicare, forcing Americans to buy junk insurance they can’t use, the lack of cost controls, these are the things we should be talking about. We should be opposing them and that means opposing this bill.

What Harry Reid does or does not do at this point is beside the point. We should be holding politicians like Obama responsible for this disaster, along with Pelosi, the Blue Dogs, the Senate “moderates”, the mainline Democrats, Reid, and again Obama.

I’m not sure bully is the issue . . . *G*

But hey, we move on, and hope for the best.

I signed the petition straight off, given all the info I had at hand.

Having learnt a BIT more about reconcil, I’d still sign the petition.

Although I might ‘vote’ for dumping this shit reform before the final end game is played out.

For now, we hope on.

Are you talking about the Obama that’s our current president or some other Obama?

no problem, fuggedaboutit.

we’re all a bit tense, and for good reasons.

Wouldn’t that be nice:

“If you’re going to do something, do it right.”

I also agree that this PO is way to weak. So are most of our fellow citizens.

Your big picture look is admirable. Normally, I’d agree with that line of reasoning about any NUMBER of issues progs/libs take up and fight for.

However:

“Once implemented, it can be improved, its availability widened, its competitive powers enhanced, its precedent spread to other problems.
“

I don’t that happening. I only see a 4 year wait to cover the MOST MINIMAL of worst cases of people not insured, with no real means of forcing lower premiums, not to mention the damage that will be done by private insurers between now and 2014.

If we pass PO as House or Senate might end with, it will be a doomsday and complete Win for corporate feudalist overlords. A stake in the heart of any further prog future or potential for change.

But hey, time will tell . . . and we don’t even yet know what we will end up with.

But I think we can all mostly agree it WON’T cover EVERYONE (open to everybody to join), it WON’T start immediately, it won’t force competition to private insurers and it WILL be a burden deficit wise and the door opener to DISMANTLE any and all government entitlement programs.

Heh, my big picture look is bleaker than yours! *G*

Before You Carve that Turkey: All In for Bernie Sanders

“So, even though the current Senate bill is not what we want – Senator Sanders will offer an amendment that would be a substitute for that bill and is mirrored on S. 703, The American Health Security Act.

We need to make it clear before our Senators are immersed in their own holiday events and then in traveling back to Washington, DC, that we want them to support Senator Sanders’ amendment.

Call today, call tomorrow and keep calling until the home offices of the Senators close for the holidays – and many will stay open until Wednesday at noon. Tell the staff you want to talk turkey about the Senate effort.”

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/11/23-5

OK, enough from me…a tension reducing walk is called for.
Thanks for the conversation! What a cool space this is!

We should get rid of the filibuster. Health care is just one issue where it is getting in the way of the public interest.

I’m leaning hard that way, Hugh . . . only I don’t know, as Mz. Hamsher has well pointed out, if scrapping this shit would get us anything better should it BE forced to start over.

And we’d have NOTHING, FAR WORSE by now, had she NOT put up the fight she has . . . . she’s made her call, and only time will tell what any of us could have thought or done in hindsight.

And maybe a small, tiny little win, or even just the fight she put up, means a crack in the machine, a chink in the armor.

We all die. Do we live out our time and do nothing? Or do we fight to find meaning and purpose in the time we have left?

I’m not well off, me and my wife are not well off, we have nothing to gain or lose by doing either. So, we hope and fight. Any change we might see in our final 20-30 years will not ease our passing or growing older.

And any FURTHER erosion of a standard of living we thought we’d have by now or in our end times won’t likely be any worse than what we will face as of now. We got no reason NOT to fight! Or hope. Better than doing nothing.

I’d sure like to see now, and back in January, a LOT more pressure on our elected’s for prog/lib issues, but the support for doing so was not there, and it’s marginally there now. Only with a continued decline in the quality of lives of the masses will we ever see any national outpouring of support for big change.

In the meantime, we fight for any little change we can get, even if we lose.

“Even the god’s are never more than 7/10th’s sure.”

We hope on.

I believe supporting reconciliation at this step is the right thing to do, I signed the petition.

The big picture to me, looks bleak, though. In that, I’m in agreement with you.

Have ALWAYS appreciated your insights, comments and info you share. You’ve helped ME to become MUCH more informed, along with all of FDL.

Thanks for that!

Use Reconciliation NOW Harry!!

And then take the names of those that gave you so much trouble with this bill and lambast them so much they will become the Republicans they already are!!

I don’t know about you but I’m tired of this chickenshit with these Blue Dogs! WE have to keep licking their asses!! What’s wrong with this picture?

Senate Reconciliation, from what I know, will strip all amendments from the bill offered by the committee(s) selected to write the legislation.

Now, can that/those amendments be added back IN as a final bill goes to conference with both Chambers?

I don’t know.

I LIKE S703, but I like Kuch, too. And as has been said already, and the link you offer adds, “we don’t expect his amendment to win.”

So, with limited resources, where do you target what little ammo you have to fire off?

I have no clue, in that regards. But without decent legislatin, I’d rather start over, with even MORE firm resolve and conviction, and with greater knowledge, and take up the fight again from scratch.

But it’s too early to make THAT choice yet . . . and on all of this, Mz. Hamsher has been spot on to date.

So? I hope on.

Time to get supplies, start thinking and workin on Turkey Day and Turkey Weekend things.

Me and mine continue to draw breath, we have shelter and money for a holiday of cooking and sharing with others. For now, I’ll take it.

Best to you and yours, from me and mine . . .

Thoughts (not directly related to this laudable effort to keep reconciliation on the table)…

Will [Harry Reid] let three or four corrupt Senators owned by the insurance industry hold the public option hostage?

It seems to me that this is the time for Harry Reid to cease playing favorites altogether. Why should Reid now be doing the bidding of any one Senator or group of Senators, with the bill now on the Senate floor and ready (one hopes) for the consideration of amendments offered by any Senator?

Harry Reid is not the U.S. Senate. 100 Senators are.

So Reid should end the back-room bribes, and the secret schemes. Open the floor to amendments, without prejudging outcomes, and let the process play out. Weeks and many amendments from now, everyone should reassess the revised, amended content of the bill, and, if the Senate as a whole democratically voted down the desires of Mary Landrieu, Ben Nelson, Blanche Lincoln, or anyone else, who the hell are they to refuse the Senate a final vote on the measure? They, I trust, equally with Republicans, will have had their chance to make their case to the Senate and the nation, received a vote on their proposed amendment(s), and, like adults, will have to live with the results (while retaining the privilege to vote accordingly, on the final up-or-down vote).

If that’s how the process is allowed to play out, in my opinion those “three or four corrupt (Democratic) Senators” will not have the moral courage to stop a final vote on the bill just because their amendments democratically failed to pass the Senate.

HOWEVER: If Harry Reid does continue with the backroom schemes, by limiting and undemocratically pre-selecting amendments for floor consideration (as part of the White House effort to pass SOMETHING, ANYTHING), as is too-often the Senate practice, Landrieu, Lincoln and Nelson are crying to/threatening the right person, after all. In that case, Harry Reid (on behalf of Obama) will be asking to be publicly and privately lobbied for special favors that his Party majority enables him to dole out off the floor. That means others in his caucus can, and should, start the same sort of lobbying, if their right to floor votes on their proposed amendments will be stifled by Reid (either unilaterally, or in response to a threatened, but not realized, Republican filibuster of certain amendments).

It’s also important to recognize that any such deliberate use of Party power to interfere with the right of Senators – of either Party – to democratically amend this “historic” bill on the floor, will add credibility and fuel to Republican/Democratic efforts to filibuster the bill because they were denied the ability to have their (germane) amendments heard and debated on the floor.

As all that plays out, I’d like to echo and praise the following well-expressed comments from Jane’s Sunday public option post, that perceptively describe the lay of the legislative land:

There are a lot of things that are going to happen between now and the conference report to shape the dynamics surrounding a vote. I wouldn’t make the mistake of thinking that what the situation looks like now is what it will look like then.
- Jane

As I’ve said many times at Open Left, sometimes we can work with the regular Democrats and sometimes we can’t, but we can’t let ourselves be swallowed up by the Democratic Party. The Party hierarchy has different goals than we do (often opposed, but sometimes just different), and if we give them our proxies and sit around hoping for them to do things for us, we are sure to lose. - JohnEmerson

I would like to point out that Obama is not positioned to make [his campaign promises] happen unilaterally. Which, though immensely frustrating, speaks to the remote possibility there is still separation of powers. Ultimately, this comes back to the vetting process for Congressional candidates who are the poster people for bait and switch. That is to say, ‘I am running as a Democrat but I’m not really a Democrat [or the "Democrat" label is now effectively meaningless in Congress]. Catch me if you can.’

[...]

Until there is election reform, there is zero chance that this [bait-and-switch practice] will change. - barbara

The CBO scoring of the Senate’s Health Care Bill comes in at $849 Billion over a 10 yr. period that reduces the deficit by over $130 Billion and is paid for.In honor of Veteran’s Day. According to a study released by the Harvard Medical School, 2,266 veterans under the age of 65 died last year as a result of not having health insurance. Researchers emphasize that “that figure is more than 14 times the number of deaths (155) suffered by U.S. troops in Afghanistan in 2008, and more than twice as many as have died (911 as of Oct. 31) since the war began in 2001.”It’s time for American Women to Stand-up/Speak-up for your full medical rights. Stop the rabid right-wing from restricting American womens medical choices. Call Congress and demand the “stupak-pitts amendment” be stripped from Health Care Reform. Also, demand that liebermann be stripped of his chairmanship of HSC and kicked out of the Caucus.Criminally corrupt politicians are the reason the U.S. is ranked near the bottom of every catagory when ranked next to other modern, industrialized nations. Time for publically funded elections. lieberman $12.6M, mcconnell $7.8M, baucus $7.7M, cornyn $6.7M, kyl $5.6M, grassley $5.4M, ensign $5.2M, conrad $5.1M, cantor $4.9M, nelson $4.9M, burr $4.8M, boehner $4.4M, hatch $4.4M, lincoln $4.1M, vitter $3.9M, carper $3.6M were paid by the Medical Industrial Complex to kill Health Care Reform. (Source: OpenSecrets.org, Aug. 09)Follow the Money: LinkCall Congress and demand, Single-Payer Health Care for All!(Toll Free # House and Senate)1-866-338-1015 _____ 1-866-220-0044 1-866-311-3405Sign Single-Payer, Public Option and Health Care as a Civil Rights Petitions: Link Link Link kucinichpetition Don’t let the Medical Industrial Complex steal your Health Care from you and your family by donating huge sums of money to Crooked Politicians in order to maintain the Status Quo. Keep up the good fight.SEMPER FI!

Washington spends more than double what Britain, France, and Germany do per person on health care, but lags behind other countries in life expectancy and infant mortality, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

Pay less, better results. This is all that matters, – it’s like the fucking All American Wallmart concept, for Pete’s sake! And they cannot sell it?

If we put in a 2000 page bill, it will mirror the efficacy of a loophole ridden IRS code.

At this stage it cannot be anything but an abject failure! Just put it out of our misery, and start over with Medicare for all! It’s there, ready to be adopted and expanded.

It’s looking like things are going to have to get a lot worse before they start getting better. More people losing their homes to medical bankruptcy, more sick people dying because of underinsurance, more government subsidies to private insurance companies as the gov’t picks up the tab on medical emergencies, more firmly entrenched corporate lobbyists calling the shots in DC. This will continue until we reach a tipping point. We’re not there yet.

Sadly for Poor Harry, he’s the face that middle America will come to love or hate, depending on the fate of this bill. The ire that will be devoted to his defeat, should it not pass in a useful form, will be considerable. He knows even a Republican victory for his seat will not persuade thousands from opposing that he retain his public employment.

Mr. Reid’s loss of office – should that happen as a consequence of his failure to bring this bill to a vote in a process that ensures (given the vast public support for health care reform) its passage – will be test for others to come. Mr. Obama, too, and Mr. Emanuel will be remembered as the architects of defeat. It won’t be just Republicans who sing that tune in 2010 and 2012.

gutting state regulations is another big one. from jon: AHIP Asks; Baucus Delivers

The for profit health insurance industry must be so happy. They can finally sell health insurance in any state, while avoiding covering health conditions the voters of those states decided should be covered. In states with good strong minimum benefits rules, health insurance companies will just choose to only offer “national plans” avoiding state law. In affect Baucus would completely strip the states of their power to decide what minimum benefits health insurance plans must cover.

More customers, less regulations, less local oversight, few options to Americans to address lack coverage problems. It sounds like an all around big winner for the for profit health insurance companies.

signed and submitted. Howard Dean also now saying reconciliation is the last chance to get any kind of health bill that means anything passed.

There’s something profoundly misanthropic about this whole process. I think these Congressmen and women resent their constituents. Anything that might’ve done some good was sacrificed on the altar of corporate welfare. Corporations count de facto for more than individuals. Teabaggers overlook: We have freedom. The corporations get prerogatives.

Thomas Friedman on Charlie Rose a few days ago put all of this into perspective for me. Our government is paralyzed from solving problems through corruption, the money, and a huge section of our population uniformed or just complacent to it all. America is circling down the drain….

Not that Thomas Friedman would ever admit his own complicity in all those happenings.

I’m sure Sen. Reid is delighted to have “progressives” twisting his arm to pass the weakest possible PO. He’d be glad to pass it. The insurance industry will continue to gorge itself and he gets to bask in the triumph of passing “health reform”. Obama gets his second term on the same basis, and because nothing starts up till after he gets in, someone else has to pay the price for how much it sucks.

Huge pity you didn’t push and keep pushing for single payer, and then “compromise” to a strong PO. That’s how the other side does it. Starting from your knees is no way to stand up for yourself.

I just signed but couldn’t write anything that sounded even close to civil.

F being civil, this isn’t the time or place for it.

I still say we can get Single Payer done, its simple. You can get simple majorities in both houses to back Medicare For All, lowering the age of Medicare to ZERO. Increase funding, eliminate waste and fraud, especially FRAUD, you hear that United Health!

What is the point of having 60 votes in the Senate? Everybody that doesn’t want to vote for the PO, I say screw them, make it even more progressive and then primary their butts in 2010.

Look its a long hard road, but we need a Marshall Plan for the country and it starts with passing serious health care reform not this paper tiger…

Wrong! It will allow the Senate to pass a bill by a simple majority; the Republicans used this when George W. was in office and they were in control of Congress. This nation cannot aford to be dictated by individuals and corporations with a lot of money that they like to speard around to get their own way thereby creating a dictatorship.

Senator Reid, it is important to impress that I support reconciliation not as a matter of due course but as pertaining to the current circumstances. The Republican filibuster must not be allowed to further mire the process and they surely intend to continue to pander to anti-government fears using misinformation tactics. Reconciliation is needed, we cannot proceed without a public option.

I’m in!