Nate Silver runs down the possibilities on the future of the public option. It would take me a long time to respond fully but I’ll address this part:
What’s wrong with the progressive block strategy? For one thing, it’s not clear that the threat is credible. Technically speaking, the bill that the House passed did not contain what had initially been defined as a “robust” public option — meaning one pegged to Medicare rates. But only one or two progressives wound up voting against it for this reason, even though many had threatened to do so.
Medicare reimbursement was never going to happen, and it was never anything we asked for in our whip count (have a look at our initial June 23 post). And we didn’t ask for it expressly because of the history of the issue.
It wasn’t something that Earl Pomeroy pulled out of his ass just to stop the public option. As the co-chair of the House Rural Health Care Coalition, Pomeroy had been fighting for adjustment to Medicare rural reimbursement rates for years. H.R. 6030 had 85 cosponsors. There were enough Democrats who didn’t want health care passed in the first place who were willing to take it down over this. Unless the progressives were ready to play hardball and start taking the ag appropriations bill hostage or something, it wasn’t going to happen. And the progressives just don’t have that kind of organization or unity at the moment.
Nancy Pelosi laughed at the progressives when they included Medicare reimbursement in the July 30 letter. I laughed at them. They gave it up 3 days later (August 2 I think). Their “good intentions” were never going to put it over the top.
I never believed the whip list that appeared in late October either, there were just too many people on it who weren’t credible. Forget about the Blue Dogs — all of the New Dems were going to screw the AMA on this? Every single one? Really? Somebody took a look at their PAC donations and believed that?
The truth is that members of Congress sign these letters all the time. They’re pretty meaningless, usually written by some lobbyist and frequently signed by a staffer — the member may never even know they signed it. They think nothing of going back on them. The fact that there was a big show at the end over Medicare reimbursement demonstrates that they woke up to the fact people were watching this time, and they had to do something to save face.
A public option, on the other hand, is now a bright line. Not the one I would’ve chosen, but the one that a small group of people with limited resources could exploit when they entered pretty late in the game to counter the $1.4 million a day being spent on the Hill in lobbying, to say nothing of the advertising and field efforts.
The whole concept of “medicare reimbursement” just never penetrated that deeply in the public consciousness. And to answer Nate’s question, that’s “why” the “public option” — people were attached to it thanks to Obama’s promotion of it, whatever they thought it meant. The history of modern American politics should be proof enough that you can’t wake up one day and decide to start working against that kind of machine and expect to have an impact just because you’re “right.” You’ve got to have an entry point, and that was one we felt we could use.
Regardless of what others may think, I measure our success based on what would happen if we did nothing versus what our impact has been. For our size and resources, that impact has been huge. Those who think we should’ve been able to “save” health care (or kill it, when there isn’t the political will to do so) are not realistically assessing either our resources or the situation at hand.
But are the progressives who have said they’d vote for a bill that doesn’t have a public option a credible threat? Well, that’s why we never counted on the July 30 letter. We got statements and videos from 16 of them. And I count at least 5 (and more likely 12) members who go down in flames as future leaders of the progressive movement if after all this they cave. But they’re not going to do it before the bill before them violates those standards: available nationwide, no triggers, no co-ops, no opt-outs.
I think those votes are well in excess of the votes they’ll need, because as I said a couple of months ago, once you start getting below 28 hard-core Democratic “no” votes you’re looking at members who think they’ll lose their seats if they vote “yes.” And that number is looking a lot closer to 40 these days.
But the “progressive block” was always just part of a larger and much more dynamic strategy, a firewall staked in the end zone at the beginning of the campaign (a perilous mix of metaphors, but I can’t think of a better way to say it). We’ve been working backwards from there, targeting Harry Reid and making it difficult for him to unload the public option without risking his own political future. And we’re not done, not by a long shot. We’ve been working diligently behind the scenes on things that nobody knows about yet, in anticipation of what is to come.
There are a lot of things that are going to happen between now and the conference report to shape the dynamics surrounding a vote. I wouldn’t make the mistake of thinking that what the situation looks like now is what it will look like then.



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Jane, I for one appreciate all of your efforts. They have been extraordinary in this fight for the right thing.
People are willing to invest vast amounts of emotional capital in the battle to do the right thing, as long as they believe they are joined by leaders who believe in their cause and in justice. That is why so many was behind the Obama election last year.
Now, however, those that supported the democrats last year believe that their leaders are betraying them. Betrayal is the one thing that will deflate any movement. You would be amazed at how far the people will follow a leader they can believe in. People believed in Malcolm X and Martin Luther King because they knew that they could not be swayed with money or threats of death.
Obama and the democrats have just pissed away all the support they had for the sake of the corporations. And more and more, people have come to realize the following:
When republicans are in power, the corporations and religious zealots get what they want…
When democrats are in power, the corporations and religious zealots get what they want…
As of July 2009, I changed my political affiliation from democrat to independent. I cannot support another democrat until they go out there and do the right thing without me having to demand from them that they do the right thing – that they do what they promised in the elections they will do.
Until elections are 100% publically funded, I fear we are just wasting energy. Obama has squandered his historic opportunity to change nearly thirty years of destructive conservative policies put in place by republicans and conservative democrats. My advice to him would be NOT to seek a second term. As a student of politics and objective speaking, if the democrats are to have any chance, they need to nominate another candidate, or get ready for President Palin…
Thanks Jane, sure hope you’re right. I’m concerned that Lieberman is absolutely unmovable — that this is personal and about revenge against his DFH enemies. If so, the only avenue I see is to force reconciliation by denying 60 votes for any public option cave.
I was never too concerned about the Medicare +5% rates, but thought (naively) the public option would be made available to the general public, and that what the po lacked in ability to ‘manage’ its costs (turn away people who need insurance) would be more than made up for by economies of scale and low overhead…Now it seems its main function is to act as a kind of subsidy for private insurers, a dumping ground for the chronically sick and infirm – patients the private plans would rather not insure anyway – and as a sop to liberal sensibilities. It won’t offer exceptionally good value insurance. It is said it will allow private insurers to lower their rates, but it will be more expensive than they are. It will actually increase gross Federal health care expenditures.
I realize politics is the art of the possible, and would gladly trade this weak PO for two things: a McCarran-Ferguson repeal and ERISA waivers for states that pass single payer legislation (along with a ban on rescission and guaranteed issue).
A 20% Corporate Welfare Tax and gutting Roe v. Wade is not Health Care Reform.
Not to mention immortal personhood for biological patents.
Time for ‘Progressives’ to vote NO!
” Forget about the Blue Dogs — all of the New Dems were going to screw the AMA on this? Every single one? Really? Somebody took a look at their PAC donations and believed that?”
Well, in that case, there is NO possible way for Congress to ever reform healthcare, and we should also stop holding for-profit insurance companies singularly responsible for that–as it would be far more honest.
In that case, it also means that candidate Obama was right, and there should be NO mandate to purchase health insurance, as health insurance only protects people who already have assets. “House insurance” as he called it, and he was right. In fact, I think Bam has been known to “free ride” (oh, horrors! bourgeois nightmares!) himself.
Health *insurance* was never meant to cover every last pill for those who can’t afford even that. If that means healthcare costs have spiralled out of reach of most people, well, then you need a radical healthcare delivery solution, not forced payments into the healthcare financing mechanisms of the upper class.
Recall that Obama initially pulled ahead in the polls in Iowa when he dissed the mandate being promoted by Edwards and Clinton. I’ve never thought that healthcare reform was THE number 1 public issue. The likely political outcomes are too, well, WRONG for most people.
People want healthcare reform because they don’t want to be forced to buy expensive health insurance. I’ve never seen how forcing them to buy expensive health insurance–whether they have assets to protect or not–is anything other than a sop to the medical industrial complex and a right wing republican anti-government making machine.
For some people free riding “the emergency room” is going to be better than the totalitarian debt bondage package the Democrats want to gift to the FIRE industry.
Which is to say, the mandate was a gift to the FIRE industry and that’s all it ever was, and candidate Obama knew it. (Whereas now they’re his employers).
thanks for this Jane, have been anticipating just such a post and am not disappointed
about 3 weeks back I was away from the ‘puter and there was quintessential bobblehead Contessa Brewer (shudder) making an argument that couldn’t have come from anywhere but this site – of course she doesn’t read here – prolly still afraid of getting cheetohs dust all over her lovely J Crew – but there it was, a ragtag, far flung army of passionate advocates had changed the CW and the conversation
oh, and Nate Silver is tiresome
Thank you, Jane, for everything that you do. The thing about Nate Silver is that he’s a numbers guy–a very good one as far as I can tell–but he stumbles when he wades into other areas. He’s like Spock.
Thanks Jane. Keep pushing Jane.
(4th graph from bottom, last sentence? Am I reading that correct?)
The “future of the public option” in THIS bill is that, over the next four years, the government will hand off its design to the insurance corporations, so that it can be fully stripped of any power over their profit margins.
Now, maybe ANOTHER bill would offer a public option that was available to everyone and offered competitive rates. But that would have to come after Congress quits wasting its time with THIS bill.
Keep fighting, Jane, but try not to be too proud (at this point) of your record of accomplishment.
Thank you, Jane. I think for the limited resources we had we’ve done a hell of a job so far. We’ve learned a lot and, imo, are going to be a powerful, realistic progressive voice from here on out.
Victor, you nailed it. Voting is largely ceremonial. Those in power let us vote and get excited about elections but they mean nothing.
The power and the agenda is driven by corporate interests and those with vast wealth who want more control, don’t want to share or give up their wealth and could care less about the people, the environment, education, housing, health care – social needs because it might cost them money.
Politicians who have ideals about getting the system to work for the people soon run into the lobbyists – the real constituents of congress and realize that their colleagues who have been in congress for years are already “sell outs” and have learned how to talk the talk but never walk the walk. Congress are a bunch of elites and mostly wealthy, invested in the MIC and Wall Street and are not going to do a thing to hurt their own “self interests”.
They have legalized bribery to congress in the form of campaign contributions and lobbying efforts.
Our system is completely broken in the sense that it is meant to serve the needs of the people. It works like a charm if it is meant to serve the needs of corporations and wealthy people. Democrats have proven to be completely ineffective and will to compromise.
The good news is that their stupidity and selfishness will be their undoing as they economy crashes and takes everyone with them. Capitalism as we know it is in the consuming itself. The USA lost its economic clout to the international finance interests and gave away its manufacturing base to M&A, and Private Equity’s greed for profits. A few thousand got enormously rich and trashed the economy of the world.
Let’s see what happens next. It’s gonna get very nasty and no one will be able to do a thing about this.
The House Bill was critical, given the likely filibuster of any PO in the Senate. The PO will come out of Conference in some mangled form or other (but presumably better than nothing), and get passed in reconciliation. You accomplished your mission, Jane.
It is disappointing that Obama is unable to change anything.
after 11 months, the Democrats in congress are still working to pass the first of Obama’s promises.
If the Democrats pass any healthcare bill it will only benefit the insurance companies by mandating we buy coverage from an industry that has an anti-trust exemption.
I think your work is responsible for getting a PO into both bills. I fear, however, that you now have something called a PO that really isn’t anywhere near what you wanted as a PO and that it will be hugely ineffective to control costs. As usual, the corporations get what they want and liberals and progressives get hoodwinked into supporting it. This PO will help some of the sickest and neediest among us and we will subsidize it. That is fine. But it won’t grow into single-payer or even a more inclusive PO because membership has been significantly restricted and rates will be high, so the Middle Class will not be able to buy in. No, the Middle Class will be forced to buy into the private insurance market where pricing will only skyrocket after health care legislation is passed. I find it disheartening that you want to bow to the machine so easily. Are you just too drained to go on?
Jane: Your name came up yesterday morning in the context of a discussion between Ian Masters and William Black. Both of them were highly complimentary, of course.
You get very high marks in my book, as well. Thanks much for everything you have done and are doing.
Hamsher/Warren – 2012
What you say is true. The only kind of health insurance that is remotely defensible is catastrophic health insurance, but even here the case is weakened by the existence of pre-existing conditions that are effectively non-insurable. Totally socialized health care is the only way to pool all the risks, including genetic ones. The argument against Obama’s plan was that any halfway house, which is what we are ending up getting if PO passes, will in effect subsidize private health insurers via the adverse selection of bad risks into the public sector. That was Krugman’s point, and was why he favored single payer, which is how I understood Edward’s proposal.
I was just reading President Carter’s Crisis of Confidence speech delivered to Americans on July 15th, 1979.
As then, it is now…and evermore will be?
I agree with Jane. I should also note that the “robust” PO is a definitional thing. I’ve always thought that a robust PO is defined as one that is widely accessible (at least a lot more widely accessible than the one we have under consideration in the House and Senate bills, although the Wyden amendment helps). The House linkage to Medicare reimbursement rates was a plus when it was proposed, but I don’t think it figured in the strategy that much, and certainly not in my understanding of it. In retrospect, perhaps it should have, but it did not at the time.
Above all, we need a widely accessible PO and affordable PO. Without both features, the PO will not exert president’s desire to use healthcare reform as a means of cost inflation management.. which I personally believe is the most important objective of healthcare reform (even more so than universal coverage, since coverage will follow if the plan is affordable). Our strategy during the Senate amendment process and in conference has to be to the secure this dual outcome of PO accessibility and affordability.
The devil is in the numbers in the Senate.
The 74th Congress that worked with FDR to pass Social Security had 71 Democratic Senators plus some Mugwump Republicans.
The 89th Congress that worked with LBJ to pass Medicare had 68 Democratic Senators plus some Mugwump Republicans.
The Democratrs won big in 2008, but perhaps not big enough to usher in sweeping change.
Thank yhou, lovely lady, for everything you do, have done, and will continue to do. May you be forever well.
Another area that has to be analyzed carefully is the question of Insurance vulture corporations being allowed to “compete” across state lines. I continue to have visions of the credit card corps being able to set up shop and wipe out all of the usury laws in the country. State AGs and/or insurance commissioners must be capable of regulating these banditos.
i couldn’t agree more about the absolute need for public financing of all elections if we are truly going to solve the many complex and interconnected challenges facing our country then senator obama clearly outlined during his campaign and an overwhelming majority of americans supported.
my advice to president obama: first, fire rahm. get someone who will fight for what is right, not what is electorally possible and pleases no one. pass another true job creation stimulus with massive infrastructure, end the bush tax cuts to the wealthy now, even if left to expire on schedule in ten years will have cost this government $3.9 trillion. re-regulate wall street; push for medicare for all, understandable by all, the most deficit friendly of all, push for real energy independence and bring the troops come now.
if the ballooning deficit and its’ crippling interest payments (like families as well as countries) is the ultimate problem then all the above solutions will bring more revenue into our government’s coffers and make us a stronger, safer nation.
Public Option? Not gonna happen. And here’s why.
And we’re not done, not by a long shot.
That’s the most important part.
It looks like we’re going to lose at this point, but this is the first time in God knows how many decades that I’ve felt that progressives/liberals were actually on the move instead of just retreating as slowly as possible.
This whole business, blogosphere activism outside the party structures, is only about 5 years old, and we were only very minor players in 2004. We really are just getting started (and learning from our mistakes) and we should think of it that way.
As I’ve said many times at Open Left, sometimes we can work with the regular Democrats and sometimes we can’t, but we can’t let ourselves be swallowed up by the Democratic Party. The Party hierarchy has different goals than we do (often opposed, but sometimes just different), and if we give them our proxies and sit around hoping for them to do things for us, we are sure to lose.
I think we’ve gained some respect in this most recent episode, but they’re still not afraid of us. We shouldn’t care whether they like us.
Jane, you’ve done a fantastic job and I agree that without your efforts we probably wouldn’t even be talking about public options at this point. We’re all a bit frustrated that after all this work, we’re not getting a better bill, but that’s the nature of change.
It’s been said before, and it’ll be said again, “this is a marathon, not a sprint.”
More to the point why has it reached the point where the progressive movement in America has…for all intents and purposes…put all its eggs in the Democratic Party to effectuate change?
Can you imagine if the Civil Rights moverment in the 50s, or the feminist, anti-war and gay rights movements in the 60s and 70s had done the same?
The Democrats [and in particular the DLC leadership] are as deeply embedded in Wall Street [and the crony capitalist revolving doors] as the Republicans.
They are basically what liberals settle for year in and year out.
The answer is, “organize! organize! organize!” Unless a mass movement is ressurected again this fake “reform” mentality [from healthcare, campaign finance and finance industry regulation to the upcoming energy/climate change and immigration "debates"] will be owned and operated [as always] by Wall Street and its enablers in Washington.
Jane, whatever we’ve disagreed on, there’s no question that your efforts have been at the forefront of keeping this health care bill as meaningful as possible against all odds. You’re doing great work, and I’ll be glad to pitch in where I can.
As others have said, thanks for all you’ve done, Jane. I assumed -as you say- that there would be plenty of behind the scenes maneuvering going on. The Firepup battalions out here in front of the scenes also need you to let us know where, when and how netroots time and treasure can be most effectively deployed. During the run-up to the 2008 elections, I followed Sam Wang’s meta-analysis blog that -among other things- attempted to predict which races might be likely to be moveable. On the basis of his analysis, I took my Massachusetts dollars and sent them to Al Franken, who famously went on to win by 300-something votes out of almost 3 million cast, and who gave us the 60th vote we needed on Saturday. You never know in advance where some tiny shift will make a huge difference down the road, so it’s crucial to work every last detail. Keep us posted!
There are four opponents to the public option in the so called dem. caucus.
Lincoln needs a primary opponent regardless. Liarman and Nelson also, but their seats are not up until 2012. Landriex is not up until 2014. The only alternative is reconciliation. Reid’s refusal to consider it should qualify him for a primary in 2010.
And I should have continued: we need them to be afraid of us. Once we’re big enough to tip primaries or elections, they’ll start respecting us.
In a way, what we’ve been doing recently is lobbying. But it’s hard to compete with pro lobbyists spending millions of dollars every day. But if we can form a voting bloc on election day (and vote on past performance, not on promises), we can compete.
perhaps the president messed up tactically then.. are you sayin’ that the goal should’ve been to spend the first 2 years shoring up support for 65 or 70 Dem seats before attempting big projects? ;-)
Nice try, chump.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/19/805925/-90-Accomplishments-of-Pres.-Obama-Which-The-Media-Fails-to-Report….
There’s a list there. There are some questionable inclusions, but the writer also missed some biggies. I’ve read a few recent articles from various Presidential historians saying President Barack Hussein Obama, that’s a Muslim name just to be clear, is way ahead of the pace set by FDR and LBJ, some of those considered to have done the most in modern history.
Try again.
Jane, you are a true hero! When GG called you “shrewd and driven’ the other day, he wasn’t kidding (tho I would say ‘shrewd and energetic’ fits better). Bravo for all your efforts, and more importantly, for making an enormous difference.
People, mark her words. There is more than wisdom in them:
I would like to point out that Obama is not positioned to make this happen unilaterally. Which, though immensely frustrating, speaks to the remote possibility there is still separation of powers. Ultimately, this comes back to the vetting process for Congressional candidates who are the poster people for bait and switch. That is to say, I am running as a Democrat but I’m not really a Democrat. Catch me if you can.
This fractious mess left of the aisle is being fed and fed generously by the fractious mess on the right. Okay, and perhaps the occasional lobbyist, corporate shill, medical power-brokers.
Until there is election reform, there is zero chance that this will change.
Just sayin’.
P.S.
Blue Dog, meet Gingerbread Man:
Run, run, as fast as you can. You can’t catch me. I’m the Gingerbread Man.
Didn’t know that. Thanks for those numbers. In addition, the political “center” has shifted so far to the right now that it’s much more difficult to get any actual Liberal reform through. Those Goldwater Repubs back then are now considered Liberal Democrats on a number of issues.
Jane, you are awesomely magnificent. And I don’t use either of those words often.
All that I am saying is that as compared with what FDR and LBJ had to work with when they managed to get sweeping social change enacted, Obama has a much narrower majority and no help at all from the other side.
As a result we are going to have less sweeping change.
I don’t blame this on Obama or Reid. It is a function of the numbers and the undemocratic nature of the Senate.
Personally, I think the president should’ve tried for a 100 day or 200 day push when he first came into office to push for a quad of key initiatives – jobs creation, mortgage relief, financial reform and the stimulus, while saying that the next major project (beginning after the 200 days and extending for, say, a year) would be to focus on healthcare.
Financial reform HAS to be the imminent priority after healthcare. Already, the Germans and French are making noises about the continuing US threat global financail stability. We need to get on the same page as the Europeans here before the Asians do, so we will start to see measures coming out of Brussels that effectively try to quarantine elements of the US system. That would be disasterous..
On climate change/carbon cap and trade (the vaunted fourth initiative), I’m happy to let the Chinese go first at this point, since they seem inclined to do so and are under fierce domestic pressure to get it done. The US can then come back later in Obama’s first term to respond to the Chinese proposal (which will have legs by then) with a stronger US one, instead of trying to second guess where the negotiations will end up with US preemption and a weaker negotiating position. It’s not like the US will be giving up on an important global leadership role here to China or anybody else – we forfeit that role in the eyes of the rest ofthe world, on climate change a long time ago.
Yes indeed. I am most impressed with your skill Jane. You clearly are wise and skillful in operating in the system as it is. Regardless of how many of the Progressive wish list get included you have empowered the movement and, frankly, give hope for those of us who have felt so alone out here in red state land.
Americans exited WW2 with nationalized war effort/funding having demonstrated what could be done in four years if WashingtonDC made the play.
American Militarism has roots coming out of WW2 that allowed it to commandeer American social,political and economic resources year after year,decade after decade. Finally even that squander has now met its match with legacy of Bush/Cheney tax free warmaking and occupation spending.
Simply put American economic resources are now maxed out. American Militarism having become the coal mine canary.
American healthcare? Well — lets see — how is that working out again?
Shortly after WW2 would have been optimal time to introduce American Health Security as twin of American Social Security. Too bad it did not happen.
Sixty years later Americans are saddled with a wasteful,corrupted healthcare regime that has money power to keep WashingtonDC in political chains and we are seeing here in 2009 how this so called healthcare reform is shapeshifting into little more than more money for the for profit insurers and less positive outcomes again for poor,under educated or health unlucky Americans.
The Ds want to tell us how they are moving this reform and doing good things? That is BS and they are liars.
Barack Obama spent much of 2008 telling Americans he was going to do good things. Here in 2009 he has shown himself to be the hollow man.
It were better if this so called reform fails because it is a corrupted Big Lie so far and after the House/Senate Conference Bill is settled on and signed by Obama WH this will only be made more plain.
The Ds hopefully will suffer greatly at polls in 2010 and 2012. They will not fight for what is right. Let the Rs do the crash and burn they seek as in longer run that opens out on true reset of WashingtonDC.
Barack Obama was selling in 2008 what he is not delivering on in 2009.
Fraud should have consequences.
“Some men see things as they are and say why. I dream things that never were and say why not”-Bobby Kennedy
That’s my answer to the “enemies of the good” crowd. The senate kerfluffle over just how much to give the insurance industry is the greatest argument for public financing of elections ever made. The ability of the industry to raise rates with impunity rings the death knell for any meaningful relief for Americans. (See credit card reform legislation..hahaha). How hard is it to frame the debate in terms of “Medicare for all”? Simple. To the point. I’m calling my Senator today, and every day, to support S703. I don’t have to call my Rep for HR676, he’s J. Conyers, and he’s got the WH and Obama, and all their apologists dead to rights..called ‘em out.
In 1946 the Democrats sufferred a terrific pummelling at the polls.
The Senate went from 57 Dems to 45 Dems. The polit6ical slaughter in the House was as bad.
This is why there was no HCR after the war.
well, Bobby would never have a team of DLC corporatists on furlough from Goldman Sachs around him doing nothing but shoring up all the ‘why nots’ would he?
Jane, thanks for your leadership. Count me among those who trust your guidance on this issue. Standing by to do what needs to be done. . . .
You’re absolutely right, sporkovat. Which is why I’m willing to “go to the mattresses” for single-payer, a phrase never heard from the WH or Obama after the election.
Concur and noted. Too bad it did not happen.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/22/health.care/index.html
watch the public option melt…….
What is presently being cooked up is, imo, little more than a public subsidy of Health Insurance Industry’s shareholders (Wall Street). The value of the final PO will be as honest as calling the Afghan War- the good war.
The reason why the implementation of this ‘dolch stoss’ will be pushed off till 2014, is because the combination of a crippling jobless recovery with a ponzi Health Reform where prices of premiums continue to rise unabated might have effected a violent popular backlash, with questionable unintended consequences to the Masters of the Universe and their Congress critters.
American public is being robed blind by a Fascist system of governance across the full spectrum of Corporate Interests, from Agriculture, through Military, to Wall Street.
With regards to HCR – I can only hope that Bernie Sanders will join the Reps and Lieberman in killing this 3 card monte.
Agreed.
Amen..Kill the Bill
Jane ,I don’t put much credence on what the pundits have to say about the PO.
The PO has been declared dead in the water many times over by our learned columnists ,yet it still survives.
It’s been a while since I’ve said thanks.
So thanks ,your tireless pursuit of this cause is greatly appreciated.
I wonder whether rural senators couldn’t have been won over to Medicare +5 if rural reimbursement rates had been trued up, but let’s leave that aside. There are two further ways to reduce the cost of public insurance that I hope are on Jane’s list of doables:
1. Increase its availability to healthier people. Right now both bills limit the option to those who lack employer insurance, a less healthy lot. The Wyden amendment would enable eligible workers to use employer vouchers on the exchange. All it amounts to is bringing the option more in line with public expectations. As Jon Walker has noted, the amendment is backed by senators who agree on little else.
2. Shift costs back to insurers who cherry-pick. If the government plan takes on less healthy insureds, it will be unfair. It should be compensated for taking on this burden. At the other end, for-profit insurers need incentives not to cherry-pick. Everyone knows this and, as Jon reminded us yesterday, the Dutch have worked out a mechanism to do this. The Senate bill has an opening for risk adjustment, but it’s too narrow and should be expanded to level the playing field. This should be uncontroversial since it would cut every which way. Chuck Grassley complained about the lack of risk adjustment on Saturday. Let’s eliminate this reason for objecting to the bills on offer. That will strengthen the public option.
Considering what was on the table back in August regarding our health care crises I can’t thank Jane for your tireless efforts and leadership.
Thank you so much—
Great read and summary, I concur there are LOTS of things to be smiley about and I am really looking forward to watching more unveil from Mz. Hamsher & Co!
But can someone tell me what these lines from above mean?
Are progs LIKELY to craft, vote and GET a PO what will cover all nationwide, no trigs, no co ops, no opt out?
Or, are they LIKELY to vote NO if a PO does NOT have nationwide, etc?
I’m confused as to the actual end result of what these lines mean? Thanks in advance . .
“And I count at least 5 (and more likely 12) members who go down in flames as future leaders of the progressive movement if after all this they cave. But they’re not going to do it before the bill before them violates those standards: available nationwide, no triggers, no co-ops, no opt-outs.
I think those votes are well in excess of the votes they’ll need, because as I said a couple of months ago, once you start getting below 28 hard-core Democratic “no” votes you’re looking at members who think they’ll lose their seats if they vote “yes.” And that number is looking a lot closer to 40 these days.”
Actually, he’s mentioned it a number of times before and after the election but every time he’s mentioned “single payer” it was to say it wasn’t possible. That alone gave Congress an excuse not to work towards a single payer system.
Is there any poll data on what about a “public option” did penetrate the “public consciousness,” and any subsequent analysis about how far away these public options are away from fulfilling those expectations?
I agree. Obama could have been an American hero, but
instead, he turns out to be a politics as usual, neo-Democrat (ie, moderate Republican).
“We’ve been working diligently behind the scenes on things that nobody knows about yet, in anticipation of what is to come.”
Oh, I hope so! Good luck.
maybe i have this all wrong, and if so hope someone will give me the correct details, because the problem i have with this narrative is that fdl raised money for the cpc members who signed up to vote down a bill without a robust po (based on their their definition, not fdl’s, being the medicare +5 issue) in addition to the cpc members who took the fdl pledge. imo, because money was raised (and it was a lot — hundreds of thousands of dollars i think), we had a responsibility to hold them accountable for their pledge (even if we didn’t think it likely they would live up to it).
thanks for any clarity/corrections anyone has to give.
even before the nov elections almost all progressive orgs had given up on single payer and joined up with hcan (although the single payer grass roots activist orgs were not included).
no way was the cpc let alone congress going to work towards a single payer system (even if they wanted to, and i’m not making that assumption) when party activists had already bailed.
…and the present of the public option. http://cli.gs/z3AtaY/
I’m not as intimate with the details as you, Jane, but how is your post not saying “we aimed low and we’ll keep fighting not to undershoot by too much”?
FDL is infected over much with wishful thinking. “If we get any sort of public option in there, it can be expanded and the insurance industries will suffer.” No, they won’t. A PO that is just another player in the market is worthless, surely? And one that is just sweeping up whatever the big insurers don’t want is of course a good thing for those few swept up, but what about everyone else?
I don’t doubt you couldn’t get single payer. You couldn’t get anything sane or decent. No one was in it to break the insurers — it’s no use people claiming Obama had his hands tied when he says in speech after speech that he supports the insurers in looting your common wealth. Without the mindset that health is not a for-profit business (which is how most of the rest of us think about it, as a consequence of our mostly successful public health systems), you are never going to get what we have. But to the casual observer, what you do have doesn’t look like anything to cheer too much about. It’s as though you just wanted to “win”, and yeah, the Blue team will probably win some, and yeah, there’ll be some increased coverage, and that’s good, but the CEOs of the insurers have more to smile about than the people and that can’t be good.
“Medicare reimbursement was never going to happen.”
I disagree. Med+5 could have passed the House with strong support from Obama, and then who knows… It was never explained to the public how important administrative rates–like we have for utilities–is to controlling health costs. It’s indispensible.
I hope progressives like Bernie Sanders and Roland Burris will vote against what remains of reform. It will be a harsh rebuke to the White House, and a well-deserved one.
I’ve been saying our work is not done. There are far too many things WRONG with America. If you just watch the big three and never come to the internet you might not think its so bad. But if you read Truth Dig, FDL, Huffington Post, Democracy Now! or Sirius Left, there is MUCH work to be done and yes if 1 or 2 Senators can pick off meaningful reform, then we need a bigger majority, a much bigger majority and let the ConseraDems kick rocks…