I could perhaps support the bill if the Kucinich amendment allowing states to establish single-payer systems was included. But what is going to result is a lot of hoopla/propaganda from the democrats about what a great effort this was and how it’s a monumental change in healthcare, when the reality is that it’s a massive giveaway to the insurance companies.

The democrats are playing a game – the “elect-more-state-representatives-and-governors game”. When the republican governors elect to opt-out, well the democrats will come to us and say things will change if only you elect more democrats to state offices. Weren’t “things suppose to change” when we elected a democratic president and majorities in both houses?

Until we liberals insist on 100% publically-funded elections, and until we can convince enough of the ignorant republican voters that this too is in their best interests, I have to conclude that placing too much emotional capital in electing democrats (and especially the more evil republicans) is a waste of time – the 2008 election bears the proof of that.

I believe that we should encourage our elected leaders to vote AGAINST any forms of these bills. We should take Kucinich’s advice, and start over again from scratch…

I’m not for passing something just to say something was passed. Why pass a bad bill?

I had always held out some hope for the PO as a viable stepping stone toward a single payer system, but it was a naive expectation and it never had a realistic chance. Due primarily to the extent that the Senate especially is so thoroughly compromised.

It is amazing how they go on about the great, monumental, once in a generation accomplishment they claim to have achieved in this bill. They are truly deluded and belie their cynicism with every word they utter. It is impossible to take them seriously or believe a word they say.

The gaping disconnect between what they claim and what is actually being proposed is so profound that it shows that they are in a very real sense far removed from reality, or else they really could care less. Their instutional betrayal of the public good makes it impossible to see how a single payer plan would stand a chance as long as the Congress is so thoroughly corrupted by legal bribery.

One mistake that really can not be made is to give the right any further electoral gains. That would be a disaster. I am of the belief that we should target Reid firstly for a defeat in 2010 right now as the only way to change their behaviour is to threaten them with a credible challenge to their seat. Also I agree that half measures to a single payer system are a pipe dream, at least as the Senate is currently constituted.

California’s problem with their system is the imbalance. It requires a simple majority to spend money, and a super majority to raise money. It’s ridiculous on its face.

In addition, there a new one on a closely related theme, here.

Yet in the midst of quibbling about $90 billion a year for health care, the President just signed a one year $680 billion defense spending bill, which does not include the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. This represents a serious problem with the priorities of those in government.

Right on, Jane! Absolutely. I’d only add that it’s not just a “serious problem” of priorities, it’s a criminal obscenity!

EVERY SINGLE POLL shows that more people are opposed to it than support it.

I intended to respond to masan whose repeating lies are quoted abouve.

See
New England Journal of Medicine Nov. 4, 2009
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMp0906394v2

A similar picture is emerging in the current debate. The overwhelming majority of Americans
want health care reform: 84% believe that the health care system needs to be fundamentally
changed or completely rebuilt (CBS, October). In addition, a majority (53%) believes that the
country would be better off if the legislation being discussed were enacted (KFF, October). The
public also favors several of the policy elements being discussed for inclusion in the final bill,
including requiring insurers to cover people with preexisting conditions (80 to 89% support)
(KFF, September; CBS, September; Pew; NBC, September) and requiring employers to offer an
contribute to their employees’ health insurance plans (59 to 67%) (Pew; KFF, September).

In addition, a public option — a government health insurance plan offered as a competitor to
private plans — had widespread support in 8 of 10 polls, but support varies depending on how
the option is described. About three fourths of respondents (76%) favor a public option
described as being run by state governments and available only to people who do not have th
option of affordable private insurance (ABC, October). When the public option is described as
being similar to Medicare, it is favored by 57 to 62% of the public (KFF, September; CBS,
October; Franklin and Marshall). Support ranges from 55 to 61% when questions ask more
generally about a government-administered health insurance option (Pew; ABC, October; KFF,
October; CNN, October; QU, September–October). However, when a more active role for
government is emphasized, support is 48 to 50% (NBC, September; Gallup, October).

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/SunMo_poll_0209.pdf CBS News

The issue has often been debated—most recently in the 2008 presidential elections–
are signs that the American public has warmed to the idea. A CBS News/New York Ti
published in February 2009 reported that 59% say the government should provide na
health insurance (up from 40% thirty years earlier)[34] A study published in the Anna
Internal Medicine concluded that 59% of physicians “supported legislation to establis
health insurance” while 9% were neutral on the topic, and 32% opposed it.[35]

If the bill does pass, it’s NOT going to bring real reform AND it’s going to bring a bunch of really bad stuff. ALL of that is going to be on Dems shoulders, and you can be sure Repubs will bash them eight ways from Sunday on it.

Very true. The Dems won’t only have Repubs bashing them. I went to a local meeting of Knox county’s 5th district this week and had the opportunity to convince the people there that Democratic Party leaders have failed us on health care reform. I was surprised by how many of them were not aware that Rep. Jim Cooper (D-TN) voted ‘yea’ on the Stupak Amendment just before he voted in favor of H R 3962.

I find this “it’s terrific. We’ve really solved the problem” prancing by the Dems to be sowing the seeds of their own destruction in 2010.

The morning after the vote in the House, I was more worried about them doing victory dances than I am now. That morning, I wrote H.R. 3962: Everybody won. (And nobody did.), 11/8/09.

But I agree with you that they’re sowing the seeds of their own destruction in 2010. No one will be buying their victory dances (especially if they don’t get the stupak out), as I wrote last night in comment to letsgetitdone’s diary:

No one who wanted real reform – not me, not you, no one – can claim a ‘win’ at this point.