I don’t know why anyone is surprised by the CMS’s conclusion that HR 3962 would result in a very minor increase in overall national health care spending.
The estimated effects of H.R. 3962 on overall national health expenditures (NHE) are shown in table 5. In aggregate, we estimate that for calendar years 2010 through 2019 NHE would increase by $289 billion, or 0.8 percent, over the updated baseline projection that was released on June 29, 2009. Year by year, the relative increases are largest in 2015, when the coverage expansions would be fully phased in (1.5 percent), and gradually decline thereafter, as the effects of the Medicare market basket reductions compound, reaching 1.3 percent in 2019. The NHE share of GDP is projected to be 21.1 percent in 2019, compared to 20.8 percent under current law.
The increase in total NHE is estimated to occur primarily as a net result of the substantial expansions in coverage under H.R. 3962, together with the expenditure reductions for Medicare. Numerous studies have demonstrated that individuals and families with health insurance use more health services than otherwise-similar persons without insurance. Under the health reform legislation, as noted above, an estimated 34 million currently uninsured people would gain comprehensive coverage through the health insurance Exchange, their employers, or Medicaid.
The bill would increase the number of Americans with health insurance by roughly 10%, but would only increase overall national health expenditures by 0.8%. That seems like a very cost-effective increase in coverage. I know the Republicans have seized on this report to attack the bill, but, if anything, the great increased cost to increased coverage ratio seems like an argument for reform, not against it.
Frankly, I’m surprised the bill would increase overall health care expenditure by so little. There seems to be a strong bipartisan concession against taking serious steps to rein in our health care costs. Single payer was not even considered. The negotiated rates public option, which is 5% more cost effective that private health insurance, is limited to only a small segment of the market. The Blue Dog Democrats refuse to support a public option based on Medicare rates, which could have really brought down cost.
The pharmaceutical industry was protected from efforts that could easily bring down the cost of drugs in this country by anywhere between 20-50%. The new bipartisan pathway for biosimilars is a joke. It will save the country almost nothing. The exchange lacks a robust risk adjustment mechanism, which would have forced competition based on efficiency instead of risk selection. Most importantly, our system lacks a central provider payment negotiator, which is how almost every industrial nation keeps their health care cost so much lower.
For what HR 3962 does, which is dramatically expand the number of people with health insurance coverage, it does it with only very minor increase in national health care spending. Despite the Republican talking point, it is not some liberal overreach–this reform bill is extremely modest reform that leaves statue quo mostly unchanged. If the Democrats are serious about reducing health care cost, they need to actually embrace proven progressive solutions.



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The dog ate my comments! Ruth’s, too.
Sorry about the tech glitch. Here are the missing comments:
$1,400,000 reasons per day, would explain
“There seems to be a strong bipartisan
concessionacceptance of $1,400,000 in bribes per day against taking serious steps to rein in our health care costs.”Please call it what it is. Bribery.
(((lurking mod)))
except that at the same time, the administration and Speaker are claiming it will decrease the deficit…
It cannot both reduce the deficit AND increase spending above and beyond what it would be with no bill being passed.
the case for increased coverage was during the campaign: decrease costs to families by $2500 per year. No individual mandate.
Now it is: individual mandate. increase costs for the foreseeable future but we PROMISE that the costs will go down eventually… oh, and the benefits do not start until 2013… but really 2015 before they kick in — so, just hang in there and survive the no jobs and crazy medical costs while we hold a summit with the same people who we are giving away billions to about the fact that you have no jobs or health care.
Yes, it can, if additional revenues are secured.
I don’t understand. Are we talking about overall expenditures in terms of government or all across the board?
No matter the answer… cost are still double or more the rest of the world. And it’s still not including a path to improve these things.. or an option available to everyone. It’s still a burden on those who can least afford it, instead of the rich.
deficit is government spending. Overall health care spending is from everyone in the nation. If we eliminated the federal highway system and turned it all into private toll roads it would reduce federal spending on roads but not overall national spending on roads.
Pure speculation! Jon is certainly aware of the CMS projections on how little of the market even the public option in HR 3200 would take up. But for some reason he has this idea that the projections are all skewed against it, and that with a Medicare rate based public option the exchanges would expand to a much larger than predicted size, maybe even Hacker/Commonwealth size. But you can’t assume that as a certainty even with a “hunch” that it would happen. (My “hunch” is that the HR 3200 option would have been even smaller than predicted, but I’m not saying that’s certain.)
Cost-effective? This? If you take existing expenditures as legitimate, it would be. But they’re totally bogus!
I must say I’m somewhat curious in what capacity Jon posts at FDL. Who do you work for? Jon lives in Washington. Do you work for someone in government, Jon? Or a politically involved organization? What is your situation?
Now that is a good comment! Although I think Germany has no such negotiator; they negotiate payment rates between regional associations of insurance funds and providers. I believe the key, however, is that it be done at least at a regional if not national level. Negotiating with individual insurers is the big no-no.
This is another good comment and so are others in the nearby vicinity.
That’s the bottom line! So why not frame the whole post that way?
15M of those uninsured are to be absorbed by Medicaid making that program responsible for approx. 50% of the newly covered. There’s your “very cost-effective increase in coverage.” Big deal.
But please, keep spinning –maybe you’ll start to fly.
Medicare For All / Hr 676: The only reform program that begins by saving $350 Billion Per Year (and it only gets better later on)
wait, didn’t the President also come out very recently and up that number from $2500 to $3000? Not quite change we can believe in is it??
The problem is that all this is, is an expansion of coverage but it couldn’t be SOLD as that because the majority of Americans wouldn’t buy that. America had to be lied to to get them to go along with it. Then in 2010 and 2012 when there is no benefit to reform yet (exchanges and PO don’t open until 2013 although high risk pools are open in 2010) and there are definite drawbacks (jobs outlook, taxes to pay for all this spending) Dems will pay a steep price at the polls. But again they’ll have gotten their start on health reform (a very expensive one at that) and then they’ll come back in about 10 years to actually (HOPEFULLY) talk about costs.
because we already pay too much and get too little.
because so many people will be stuck with medicaid which pays providers like crap and makes it hard to find doctors. because medicare costs are supposed to go down about 10% (doesn’t anyone know where that money is coming from?) and because in 2019 23 million will still have no insurance. and because even for people who do have insurance, they may not be able to afford the copays, etc.
and by 2019 our national healthcare expenditures are expected to be over 21% of GDP. that’s right, one if five dollars of our economy will be sucked through this monstrosity with no end in sight because there are no cost controls.
i’m not surprised. i’m outraged.
right now. today. we already pay enough in national health expenditures to provide first dollar coverage for every person in the usa. that means no copays, no deductibles and no coinsurance.
the is plan is a joke. no, not a joke, a massive corporate bailout for the insurance companies and other various corp friends of the administration.
The truths and facts being what they are as presented by Jon Walker above do tell the story in a way the Democrat leadership in Congress,President Obama and the Obama WH seem very much trying to not tell.
This so called healthcare reform and the last eight months of WashingtonDC posturing on costs control being at center of all reform is a Big Lie.
Clearly this reform is not about doing anything truly genuine — Single Payer Plan? No — Robust 50 state Universal Medicare Public Option for all Americans? No — real pharma cost containment/options for generics? No.
What is being done is forcing 40-50 million Americans to buy health insurance from the for profit health insurers. With very undefined Federal subsidies based on IRS activity,records,compliance and enforcement with mandated join and buy being put into play. Some reform.
As for 2013 being the target start year with 2015 closer to actual real world phase in showing up the entrenched interests against any real changes ever taking place in American healthcare will have plenty of time to put the fixes in and buy off WashingtonDC to prevent,stall or circumvent this so called reform once it is made law.
The Democrats are a bunch of liars for trying to push this corrupted reform off as being so wonderful and great. They deserve to lose big in 2010 and 2012.
As for President Obama could we stop with the kabuki play regarding this charlatan who has not done anything other than preserve the entrenched interests. This Obama WH is not for the little American. As seen with how it is handling rule of law issues,Wall Street handouts and sabotaging this reform in having taken Single Payer off the menu. If Barack Obama is all about cost control then why is his WH cutting off the best ways forward to do just that?
Barack Obama deserves to get voted out in 2012.
This so called healthcare reform is a Big Lie and reforms little.
Everyone is kidding themselves.
Drs. and Hospitals account for over 50% of NHE.
Everybody likes doctors, and hospitals are the biggest employers in many congressional districts, so congress won’t try to cut costs there.
The easy targets are Rx drugs (10% of NHE) and insurance company admin (7% of NHE).
Good luck bringing costs down if you’re not willing to make the tough decisions.
bingo!
and we know what is already happening with regards to the availability of healthcare for those on medicaid. btw, that’s why in MA medicaid was all rolled into the subsidized exchange.
Slightly OT: I see TPM is carrying a story about the billions of dollars in Medicare fraud that have been discovered. This raises an important point about the fiscal hawks. When The President spoke after his first big health care gathering, he chided the “bleeding heart liberals” saying that they need to understand that costs have to be cut. (This made me furious and I wondered why I didn’t see anyone else comment.) The point is that bleeding heart liberals want to see costs cut- it’s just how you go about it that is contentious. We know that many providers- especially in the pharma and medical supply arenas are making a killing by overcharging and over-treating. The point from our perspective is that these people need to be reined in- not that the little people should have their benefits cut. Instituting quality control measures focusing on providers is the answer. I still don’t think the President or those calling the shots understand this well enough.
I’m curious how you would go about doing that. I agree overtreatment and overpayment are huge problems, but the obvious way you curtail those is – as Jon has said – a central provider payment negotiator, which comes part and parcel of single payer. It’s not just about the insurance administration!
absolutely correct. You want to reduce healthcare spending, here’s what you do. You tie what doctors, hospitals, EVERYBODY are paid to GDP. It can only go up by that amount.
Just like seniors didn’t get an increase in their social security checks this year neither should anyone in the healthcare sector.
slow, here’s some more from the cms report on the medicaid issue:
.
you know the simple fix to most of this. Force Medicare providers to be contracted. Currently they’re not. Anyone can submit a claim to medicare and because by law its required to be paid within 15 days calims are auto-ajudicated and by the time someone gets around to catching fraud the perpitrators are long gone. Its a full-proof scam costing us billions a year and no one seems to care.
Medicaid does pay providers like crap, but the Medicaid reimbursement rates are being boosted to align with Medicare. But maybe what you’re saying is that since Medicare rates in turn are falling, they’ll both have more problems attracting providers. Is it?
I agree with basically everything else.
[EDITED] That is good information posted @ 19. I wonder if Medicare recipients will have trouble also?
part of the problem is how medicare and medicaid determines fee structures. ama should not be allowed anywhere near that process. montanamaven wrote about it a little bit in one of her excellent diaries, Mad as Hell Docter Paul Tells About Crashing the White House and a secretive AMA Committee
that was my whole argument that if you make a public option “too good too fast” then you end up with nothing of value. If no doctors participated in a public option then what is the sense? If you paid doctors $100 for an office visit and got 100% of the doctors to accept that then great but costs are high. If you only paid them $10 then costs are low but maybe none would accept it. Its key to find the balance of acceptance and cost savings. The only short term fix to this is if you forced providers to participate in the PO if they participated in Medicare. They want the Medicare captive market so it would grow the PO’s network immediately. With negotiated rates though it doesn’t work.
i thought medicaid rates were only being boosted for primary care docs? (already a big problem wrt availability). agree about medicare now becoming a problem too with more docs and hospitals limited the number of patients they will accept on medicare.
i don’t know where that 10% decrease in medicare is coming from (does anyone?). maybe it makes sense, but it seems like a big number to me.
what i think we have here is divide and conquer. instead of everyone being in the same kind of plan, our divisions are being entrenched. with some people uninsured, some people covered by medicaid but not necessarily able to obtain healthcare because of the crappy reimbursment rates, a step up from that is medicare and a step up from that is private employer based insurance. in other words it’s rationed healthcare — only instead of being rationed by an individual’s ability to pay it’s rationed by the program they are in. different levels of rationing for different economic classes.
i’m sorry but this whole reform strategy does not make sense to me whatsoever from a healthcare policy perspective.
would love to be convinced otherwise. but please: no more spin.
This is a great point. It’s a two-way street. You cannot just worry about pushing down payment rates. You have to actually create a network with those payment rates. A big problem with both the “options” in HR 3200 and 3962 is that they aren’t joined at the hip to Medicare. That would then essentially be a Medicare opt-in. That’s not what anyone proposed.
thanks.
That’s why like it or not the “doc fix” needs to be stopped and I actually agree with Republicans on that issue (but not for the reasons they’re doing it). That 21% decrease needs to happen otherwise we’re just digging ourselves a deeper hole to get out of later.
my understanding (and i really have to go back to the reports to check this out) is that if fed deficit goes down and total national healthcare costs go up, that means costs to the private sector (and possibly states and loc gov) must be going up. iow, a tax increase.
but again, that’s one i’m going to have to check and calc the numbers if i can. more coffee first….
Good point.
Thank you.. more coffee for me as well…)
On Medicaid:
-That ‘boost’ is $57B over 10 years or $126 per year for each of the roughly 45M people expected to receive Medicaid (after 3962′s 15M are added to the program). Again, big fucking deal.
-On the other hand, stimulus spending into states, set to expire in 2010, would be stretched out to 2011 by 3962 and that’s probably a necessary fiscal band-aid if you’re intent on dumping the healthcare problem onto the states. Maybe that’s what you meant by ‘boost’?’
Still, none of that crap alters selise’s greater point that 3962 triggers a race to the bottom: Rather than save everyone now while we can afford to do so, ObamaCare, generously interpreted, instead throws out a few cushions with the expectation that a lot of people are going to fall further on the economic scale. Social engineering to believe in, huh?
Medicare For All / HR 676: Everyone in, nobody out
The problem is not so much Medicaid pays poorly it is that private insurance companies pay on insane amount. If you compare Medicaid reimbursement levels to other countries they are fairly well inline.
and how do you suggest we “un-spoil” doctors to get them in line with other countries? Do you think they’ll give up their second and third homes willingly?
apples and oranges if the cost of doing business is not the same. still, i’d be interested in comparing fee schedules. how do medicaid primary care reimbursment rates compare?
No argument there, but have the guts to follow it through … ‘pays for’ what?
You want to say: private insurance companies pay an insane amount for healthcare (services, drugs, devices). Correct?
Why do they pay ‘an insane amount’ for healthcare? Because they’re generous?
Or is it because ‘an insane amount’ is what private insurers are charged for services, drugs, devices? In other words, private insurance pays an insane amount because they are charged an insane amount. Correct?
So what’s the solution, Jon? Maybe all of the private insurers could get together and say we’ll only pay a ‘sane amount’ for healthcare. But then they’d have to charge their customers less and there would be less to skim from their customers for themselves. So that won’t do.
Maybe health care providers could say we’ll only charge a ‘sane amount.’ And maybe pigs would fly.
A product costs what a market is willing to pay for it.
A single payer system like the one proposed by Medicare For All advocates would create a 330M strong market force. Healthcare providers would have to appeal to this market if they wanted to succeed.
In this way, a united America market would have the ability to determine prices, set sane prices for healthcare. This is why other countries can pay Medicaid-like rates and still receive quality healthcare (including American on-patent drugs) instead of the shit that is our Medicaid.
Medicare For All / HR 676: the only real healthcare option for the American public
the only flaw i see in your argument is this:
So what’s the solution, Jon? Maybe all of the private insurers could get together and say we’ll only pay a ’sane amount’ for healthcare. But then they’d have to charge their customers less and there would be less to skim from their customers for themselves. So that won’t do.
Do you think private insurers in a for profit model enjoy losing their customers to the uninsured? I don’t think so. That doesn’t help their profit margins. I think they’d prefer a model that keeps America teetering on the edge of just being able to afford coverage.
Also you can’t just jump to Medicare for all from where we are now. Do you know how many current doctors would just give up practicing medicine? I’d suspect a lot. You have to slowly get there so as to not shock the system.
re apples and oranges: one of the reasons provider costs in the usa are way too high is because of useless adminstrative costs:
from bill moyers;
National Health Insurance. Liberal Benefits, Conservative Spending
how much of our provider costs are not paying for healthcare?
So what I’m seeing here is that there simply *is* no coherent progressive message for health care reform.
For some progressives: “Single payer is the ONLY option! Anything else is heresy! Boo, hiss ‘public option!’”
For others: “Single payer is great, but there’s no chance in hell that it will ever happen. HR676 fanatics are simply spoiling the chance that we’ll get ANY improvement by demanding that we only get the PERFECT improvement from day one!”
For me, I used to think that a robust (tied-to-Medicare) public option was the best solution that we were likely to get out of this fight.
Now, I’m just disheartened; we progressives never win any battles because, frankly, we can’t even decide what the hell we want. Since there’s no way in hell we’re going to win this battle (oh, don’t get me wrong, at this point, some form of “public option” will likely be passed, and the President will declare it a massive “victory,” while Republicans will declare it the workings of Satan on Earth — but that’s not a real “victory” if no real reform — you know, improvement in people’s lives, the real goal of reform, riiiight? — happens)… I’m personally just losing interest. I’m starting to believe that nothing will ever really change — the “good guys” can’t get their act together (they’re either too easily misled into improper compromise, or too idealistically wedded to pie-in-the-sky ideals that will simply not happen any time soon), the “bad guys” will always win.
And all my enthusiasm and energy are gone (you could probably tell that by a graph of my contributions to ActBlue and FDL in the past few months), and I just have to go back to the old Alan Grayson solution: hope I don’t get sick or lose my job.
Here’s an example of how the docs screw us. I am 59 years old and have been putting off undergoing a colonoscopy since the age of 50. I get up the courage and submit my underside to examination. I wake up after the “procedure” and my wife says that they weren’t able to effectively examine my colon and the doctor accused me of eating the day before during my cleansing preparation. I knew that wasn’t true, I followed the directions to the tee. The doc says I’ll have to come back in 5 to 7 years since he couldn’t be sure I didn’t have polyps, although he wrote the conclusion on my records that he didn’t observe any polyps or or lesions. Now, that would put me in the unenviable position of not having an effective colon exam until the age of 64-66, while on their own web site they go on and on about the virtues of getting your colon checked at 50 and every 10 years after if no complications are found. When I got home I read the instructions on the prescribed prep kit. To my surprise I found out that in a case study 12 to 13 percent of persons in the sample do not respond to the prep kit. Yet this was never discussed with me nor was any attempt made to determine whether I had had a successful cleansing. The only question asked was whether I had consumed the full 1/2 gallon of liquid mixture supplied in the kit. Clearly, then, this doctor is part a colonoscopy mill in which the procedure is the product not an effective colonoscopic investigation. The inconvenience of having to reschedule me was trumped by the need to meet the quota of procedures. So I was out 500 dollars out of pocket for my insurance provided “free” colonoscopy, lost 2 days work, went through the rather distasteful cleansing preparation and all I learned was that I had a dirty butt! After some negotiation the colonoscopic clinic has agreed to give another for about an additional 115.00, but it was a struggle and I had to threaten them with a lawsuit. At one point they actually said, but sir the doctors must be paid!” So, do we really have the best health care system in the world? No, just the most expensive, from the patient’s point of you anyway. I wonder how many others get scammed in this way across America?
(((ouroborous)))
i’m so sorry it gives you grief, but sometimes people don’t agree. and sometimes the issues are so difficult i don’t even agree with myself half the time. just trying to figure stuff out… and not finding any easy answers either.
ouroborous, sorry you’re discouraged. I often feel quite down myself. But that makes me angry and I use to that keep going for what I believe in. What makes me tired is working for something I don’t believe, like the Public Option. That won’t work. Especially when one starts out advocating for it and then approaches negotiations with the attitude that anything is better than no bill at all. The result of that is a PO that won’t do anything either at all, or perhaps for many years while more Americans needlessly die, go bankrupt, and lose their home.
It is.
The most important thing we can do is to both insist on a high standard of basic care and a reform that will bring down the NHE percentage to 12% of GDP. We need an Administration and a Congress that will take on and accomplish this mission and not accept any so-called reform that will continue to suck the future of our children into the vortex of the Medical-industrial-financial complex including the Insurance companies, Pharma, BIO, the hospitals, and the Doctors. Yes, Virginia, the Doctors are to blame too. Many of them are too greedy and make too much. We need to develop compensation schemes for them that are consistent with cutting NHE to 12%.
why 12%?
Oh, I don’t blame anyone on the progressive side if the PO as it stands is no good. Y’all are much more diligent than I am in keeping up with the details of these massive, 2000-page bills… I’m much more “talking points” oriented (as shameful as that is to admit).
But I am also looking at political realities — which is why I was initially a PO supporter over SP. I wanted SP, but I believed that there simply was no feasible political path to getting it in the near future, so I went to bat — as best I could in my limited way — for the PO. I did my homework, called my representatives, donated money, lobbied (and annoyed) friends and relatives.
And now it turns out that I’ve been a sucker all along, and that the PO is just a shell game. I suppose it’s better to know the truth, and all, but it a) makes me feel like a fool for getting so involved in the game (hence my feeling that nothing every *really* changes), and b) completely drains my energy and enthusiasm for the whole battle. I mean, come on, if the PO — crap though it may be — was such a huge political stretch and long-shot, why on earth should we get behind SP? We can’t even get 60 Democrats to agree unconditionally to support cloture on a weak-sauce PO. SP — Medicare for all, say — would never even get to the floor.
So, bottom line is, I’m just spent. I don’t see anything meaningful changing any time soon, so I’ll just hope and pray that I don’t get sick or lose my job. What else can I do?
I am pretty firm in my progressive convictions, but man, it sure would be nice to back a winner once in a while. Always being the butt of “punch the hippy” jokes in DC gets old, eventually…