good

OUTSTANDING!

Um… It’s good until the part about repealing DOMA. You guys do realize that there is a 0% chance of this happening, right?

Instead of un-subscribing, I much prefer to take the opportunity to send a blistering ‘reply’.. Don’t know if they get read, but it’s greatly satisfying and affords me many more opportunities to do it again.

Between their warmongering and homophobia and misogyny, I’m done with ‘em.

Replace “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” with “Tell me all about your sex life, because it’s really relevant to your job performance.” /s

Excelsior!

Unsubscribed just now. Nice way to start the day, I think.

Also, today’s a big day in the New York State Senate, where they are likely to vote on gay marriage. If you’re a New Yorker, please contact your state senator and let them know how you feel.

This fight was picked before it was known if it would succeed. That seems to be a pattern amongst the more conservative elements of the homosexual political veal pen.

If they fall short, we get another kick in the gonads, the initiative reverts to the phobes, and the flashing green light is given to second class citizenship.

How unrepresentative can our self-proclaimed leaders be that the most pressing matter right now is how to ensure that more lesbians and gays are allowed to become cannon fodder for a military machine enforcing the project of keeping middle easterners under brutal rule to secure cheap petroleum and keeping the Palestinians under Israel’s thumb.

We need job protections. We need housing protections. We need to be able to register our life partners as the equivalent of social security spouses.

That is the agenda supported by a majority of LGBT and a majority of Americans, more so than military and marriage. Repeated failure on marriage and military closes off the political space for successes elsewhere.

Where did these ersatz-politicos learn that the best way to proceed is to figure out the most controversial, hot button issues and press forward with them, even though there are consensus issues as of yet unresolved?

Not good enough. They don’t get any contributions from me until they also pass HR 676, enhanced Medicare for All, Single-payer. “Everybody In, Nobody Out.”

Me too. I especially like sending back the “snail mail” appeals I get for money from all the different Dem organizations. I write in BIG BOLD LETTERS

NO GAY RIGHTS = NO GAY $$$$

I send it back in their postage paid envelope so that they have to pay to get my message (with no donation) back.

Who is still donating to the DNC or OFA? Thought that stopped around the time of FISA.

I send it back in their postage paid envelope so that they have to pay to get my message (with no donation) back.

I always consider taping the envelope to a brick, so they have to pay more postage.

Jane, can we extend this “boycott” to the DSCC and DCCC? These guys [DNC included] make it harder than hell to “reply” to their e-mails. [I just got another plea this morning from the DCCC.] Perhaps a “list” somewhere of effective e-mail addresses would be in order?

Now this I can get behind.

But I agree it should be way more than just the DNC, the DCCC, the DSCC, all of em.

And as NYer I’ll be calling my state senators today.

I was on OFA’s mailing list. Not any more.

I just got a crowing email from Nancy Pelosi (the reply went to dccc) and I said the bill is a piece of crap, especially the Stupak amendment, and they aren’t getting a penny or a vote from me.

Furthermore, I am boycotting all contributions, including those here, because they go to reward legislators who turn around and renege on their pledges. We are wasting our time with these corrupt individuals who are bought and paid for.

And Joe Donnelly is getting a coathanger from me with an appropriate note attached.

Oh, oh, a “you guys.” Time for Troll Bingo.

I use the blistering reply in the “Reason for Unsubscribing” box.

This is the best news I’ve heard in a long time. I am sick of having to choose between a right wing fanatic party and a wimpy, spineless, pathetic party who says they want to do some good things, but they have to check with the right wing fanatic party first to see if it’s okay. At least the right delivers for its base. Why should I give money to and vote for a party that “might maybe someday talk about doing some things for gay Americans as long as it doesn’t hurt the feelings of bigots, ’cause, ya know, we have to respect hateful opinions too ’cause all opinions are informed and valid and equal and everything and your sexuality is just your political opinion so we need to meet halfway and you may think you’re a human being and capable of knowing who you are and what your needs and wants are, but that’s just your opinion, but vote for us because, like we said, we might maybe someday consider conducting a study to see if we can someday help you.”

Good for you!

Yeah, but you only get to do it once and I just can’t seem to get enough lately.

This administration is a massive clusterfuck. I can’t believe what I’m seeing with each and every day. Obama has been so incompetent, weak, and a non presence since the health care debate started. Why on earth did he start on health care if he wasn’t going to fight for it?

Me and a lot of other young people, who will now be forced to pay for junk insurance, are very disillusioned.

unsubscribing from his list. not sending another motherfckin dime to any democratic organization. im through with them.

OMG! Thank you, SD. I’d not seen that. And, it’s so funny because I’ve read every single one of those here, from time to time, verbatim.
Now, where’s the Responses to Trolls Bingo?
I wonder if our responses are as typical?
When my step sons were younger, they used to say Shut Up, Nobody likes you anyway. I’ve been tempted to use that one, but have refrained. *g*

That’s really good. Perfect for the occasion.

SD – outstanding contribution

Too many acronyms.

DADT ENDA DOMA OFA DCCC, DNC (I recognize that one anyway)DSCC…did I miss any?

Don’t be assholes or morons!
What part of “Money talks and bullshit walks” don’t you understand?
Stop giving, fund raising or campaigning and nobody – I mean NOBODY – at the DNC, OFA or even the Castro district – will listen to or respect your cause.
Listen, in America it’s becoming OK to be gay – but not stupid. Americans have had enough of incompetence.
Raise more money, raise more hell and make the voting block APPEAR big, unified and most of all LOUD, that’s how you get things in DC.
All you gotta do is scare the bejeezus out of the bedwetters in congress by threating to not contribute or re-elect them to get things done.
Think not? Well, just look a the GOPers. Every wingnut, batshit crazy bible thumpin’ cracker, Talibangelical, “C” Streeter and neocon brownshirt in the country dupes the rethuglicons to do their bidding.
We liberals should take that fact to heart and do the same but with some intellectual class and depth, not like the Palin trailer trash crowd.
The new rallying cry for the liberals and others who value the fairness of the Golden Rule should be – “RAISE MONEY, RAISE HELL, GET IT DONE”…

I always consider taping the envelope to a brick, so they have to pay more postage.

you’re a hard-ass.

I think I like you.

Unsubscribed. I started listing all the reasons why… and got so mad with such a long list of reasons I forgot to enter the reason in this post.

Switching party registration to (Green or Socialist) later this week. I’m over all but one incumbent. Throw them all out… start over.

Jane Hamsher: I’ll add to the donor boycott (I am hardly any big dollar donor) with my own refusal to donate money. I’ll go further, however – my participation and support of this party goes farther than a dollar. I vote. I vote in presidential primaries, too. I’ll not contribute any primary or general election for a Democrat again until I see the Democrats aggressively pushing a real progressive agenda. Enough is enough. My continued belief in the value of participating with this party has been abused one time too many. The belief bank is closed. The party’s candidates can do without my help.

I’m over all but one incumbent.

Sanders or Feingold?

Welcome to the outside of the two party system. It feels pretty much the same out here.

I’m proud to say I joined this boycott too! We can stand up and make a difference. I still believe that they will listen if we make them!

LOL

AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND…

Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Freedom Fighters:

I have been boycotting the DNC as well as the DCCC for months now and every time I get a call from the bastards I tell ‘em that I won’t forward another dime to ‘em until the President starts leadin’ on the issues he won the election on. This kind of boycott must be put in effect accross the board until Obama dumps Rahm. Tell everyone who calls to ask for cash that until Obama starts leading he and his organization don’t get another cent. This hits ‘im where he lives and he knows that he can’t triangulate with the fascists ‘cuz there aren’t enough of ‘em (and they wouldn’t play ball with ‘im anyway ‘cuz their base would blow ‘em up)) and if he loses his base in 2010 there will be too many of the bastards in both houses and they will eat ‘im alive and he’s toast in 2012. This is the only leverage we have except for our votes and if we don’t put our money where our votes aren’t then he’ll either get the picture or self-emolate in the burning pile of shit that is Clintonista politics.

KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE FUCKIN AMMUNITION, NO MORE MR NICEGUY!!!

To each, his/her own.

Talk is cheap.

Not donating to the Democrats does nothing to create a new party.

And what are you going to do when they run Cheney/Palin in 2012, and the “lesser evils” argument is trotted out?

What are you all going to do when Cheney/Palin beat Obama/Biden in 2012 and the Democrats set their sights on obliterating those who allowed the “worstest president ever” to win?

Its not like nobody has never been faced with these questions before, and they are going to come up again.

kinda begs the question – was Obama lying, or is Rahm running all over his ass?

I’m going to work on Troll Response Bingo. I’m thinking.
“Way to make friends, dickwad.”
“There’s a rock somewhere that misses you being under it.”
“Which head are you thinking with?”

Great idea.

Sometimes withdrawal can be the most radical form of intervention.

We’re not going to be part of your compromising games, DNC. Now do something to earn my donation!

The belief bank is closed. The party’s candidates can do without my help. – Jane Hamsher

Say it loud, say it again!

She won’t get fooled again. (If she ever was.)

Now do something to earn my donation!

Bringing Howard Dean back would be a nice start…

Citizen jayt:

Your question is a “faggot hassle” in that it doesn’t matter…Obama’s the one we brought to the dance and he has the power to change to survive or stick with Rahm and fail. I don’t think Obama’s core beliefs are the question, it’s his political survival instincts we must count on…if he thinks the fascists are gunna save ‘im from us DFH’s then we’re all fucked anyway and I’ll see ya in the camp excercise yard.

with some intellectual class and depth

Well said {grin}.

The other matter is that ascending strength means rising political power, declining strength means losing political power.

When LGBT leaders go off on “wars of choice,” bringing knives to gun fights, and putting our communities in front of them to take the bullets, and losing like Prop 8 and Question 1, then that diminishes the credible political threats we are capable of making and sends the signal to electeds that it is okay to use government to gay bash.

Just like NARAL abdicated education on how important reproductive freedoms are and is getting bit for it, the appearance of political power must be maintained and nurtured if it is to be kept over time for future use.

It is almost as if the HRC and the LGBT veal pen are so enamored of gala dinners that they want to ensure that their franchise remains vibrant by metering out their success rate to the point where their partying is predicated on our second class citizenship.

my question is a “faggot hassle”?

well please excuse the fuck outta me.

on edit; and how fucking dare you frame your “response” in such an ass-hole-ish term?

You wanna just go ahead and let your hate flow? I’ve got a few minutes….

Citizen marcos:

sigh…don’tchu get it, read my lips: “The Democratic Party IS our third party. If we devote one tenth the effort to takin over the Democratic Party that a futile third party would require, we can rule the world by 2012.”

If I’m gunna loose, I’m gunna loose in a fight I have a chance ta win…JEEzus H. keeRIST on a God damned crutch, open your fuckin eyes!

My eyebrows shot up on that one.

I would have preferred a break with Obama over his mishandling of the economy or his selling out over healthcare, but if this is the issue that begins to drive a wedge between Democrats and progressives, that’s fine by me.

Jane,

This “Don’t Ask, Don’t Give” boycott is an excellent idea, though I’m not sure what unsubscribing to OFA accomplishes.

I wrote you yesterday to let you know that no one pays me for my work and that I am a friend who admires your work and thinks you do it brilliantly.

Nothing else has motivated me to dedicate so much time at FDL.

After reading Masaccio’s posts, I contacted the communications directors of Reps. Frank and Bean, and got into useful email exchanges with them.

After reading your posts, I wrote a diary about Rep. Eshoo’s lame attack against you at HuffPost.

I’ve written three (submitted 2) diaries re Rep. Jim Cooper, and have asked to help run a primary challenger against him.

And I’ve written part of what I am hoping will be a post introducing Rob Miller at FDL and am now in contact with his campaign manager, having presented a set of questions. I have an appointment to speak with her today. Would you like me to go ahead and do that, or do you want me to pass along with I’ve written to someone else and let him/her take over the meeting with Rob Miller’s campaign manager?

I don’t mind doing the work, but I’m not sure there’s a point in me doing it if I’m not even sure you’re hearing me.

Citizen jayt:

I guess you’re too young to remember a poet outta San Fransisco who coined the term, his name was Allen Ginsberg and he was as flaming as a can of naplam on a stove…good Christ man, get real!

Citizen demi:

I can’t believe you’re that ignorant too…go get a collection of the good Mister Ginsberg’s stuff, you’ll like it!

sigh…don’tchu get it, read my lips: “The Democratic Party IS our third party. If we devote one tenth the effort to takin over the Democratic Party that a futile third party would require, we can rule the world by 2012.”

Of course, that is so easy and realistic, why didn’t we think of that first?

hiya demi.

I had this motherfucker’s back a few days ago, and he comes back at me with some kind of “faggot” response?

Fuck that – and fuck him.

I’m gone.

I shall and I bet I will.
I just was thinking that sometimes certain names are only politically acceptable coming from someone who fits the term. For example, being a woman, I can get away with saying “chick”. That’s all. There are other examples, and I bet you know what I mean.
I was just surprised, that’s all. And, maybe I’m being a baby, but I thought you were a tad harsh…on old jayt.

Sadly, for me this ship sailed long ago. The DNC, the DCCC, and the DSCC, among others, would just give my money to candidates I don’t like. I run my own ActBlue page, and I watch some of the other progressive pages. I suggest that if anyone who reads here is still giving to those organizations, then STOP!!

Citizen jayt:

With help like you..well I’ll get my own damned back thank you very much. You didn’t understand sumpthin’ so you figured it was somethin bad and instead of findin out you just showed your ignorance…like I said, I don’t need ya in my foxhole.

There should be a similar donation stoppage until the Stupak amendment is finally defeated.

fantastic!

I agree. I think every cent should stop until the Democratic Party acknowledges our existence and we get some respect – Progressives, I mean.

Citizen demi:

Bless your pure heart…if ya notice, I haven’t used the term “chick” around here (or anywhere for that matter Mrs. Norske has me socialized)but the term “faggot hassle” is a poet’s term for an unresolvable question or an argument with no meaningful answer. Or in ignorant Norskespeak: a waste of time.

No more advance money for anything. No more contributions until we get free health care, jobs, responsible energy and they tax the rich to pay for it.
The alternatives are the collapse of the country. And they know it.

With you as always, Jane :-)

I see what you’re saying. Sometimes I’m just too naive for my own good. And you did put the term in quotes. Gotcha, you old poetical guy.
I think it’s time for me to duck into the yard and pull some weeds. No, really. *g*

p.s. Citizen Demi, start with “Howl” and go from there…Ginsberg is one of those figures that helped move history by bein’ a part of it and helps one to understand that our existance only has meaning in the history of our actions.

Count me in! I haven’t given money to the DNC or DCCC in ages. I’d rather give the money directly to the campaigns I support. The DNC and DCCC has failed in too many ways to count to ever get another dime from me.

Clarification

I don’t mind doing the work, but I’m not sure there’s a point in me doing it if I’m not even sure you’re hearing me.

By hearing me, I mean that someone at FDL lets me know that I’m on the right/wrong track with one idea or another and that the better things that I present get some decent visibility at FDL.

If I missed some kind of poetic reference, then I guess shame on me.

You don’t want me in your foxhole – no fucking problem.

I unsubscribed with a healthy “why” inserted int he proper box.

I’m with you on this one (HR 676). Frankly, this is the most important national bill out there right now. I know there are many people in the LGBT community that would disagree, but this one bill has the potential of getting this country over the financial disaster we are courting and affects everyone. We can work on the others on a piece by piece basis, and we do have to, but single payer for all sends a message that transcends specific communities and empowers the progressives to enact the others.

The flamethrower has literary knowledge and terms the younger of you aren’t likely to know. He may have been around as long as this old tree, trying to fight against the war in vietnam where much of what we do today was framed, because it hadn’t happened before.
Look to understand prior to condemning someone’s statement. Google is an excellent tool for such. the Flamethrower has been a long time commenter here and has the the things we share in mind. The flamethrower pulls no punches either. When one ceases to lie, one is understood by less and less people.

I’ll take the younger of you comment as a complement. I graduated HS in 1969 and went to quite a few VN war protests.
Just wasn’t familiar with that particular Ginsberg phrase. I don’t think I was condemning Norske. I happen to consider Norske one of my friends here.
But, thanks again. Lots of people think I look Very Young for my age. *g*
Now, really….weeds.

I just got a call this morning asking for a donation to the DSCC to help push healthcare through the Senate. I guess they use any excuse to ask for donations these days. I said NO. I told the caller I was not upset with her, but that nearly the entire Democratic Congress has been a huge disappointment as well as Obama on healthcare reform and has sold us out. I said the House Bill is crap and I suspect that the Senate will make is even lousier if and when it is passed. I saw Maxine Waters last night on TV. She does not like the House Bill, but said the President wants a Bill so badly he will sign ANY Bill that comes across his desk. This is not what I voted for, how about you?

Speaking of the New York State Senate. . .

Can we add a women’s right to choose and the sellout by the party with the Stupak amendment and even the Hyde amendment that doesn’t comport with the law. In Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley is running to replace Ted Kennedy. She has clearly said, from the first day of her campaign (Hardball interview) that she could not any healthcare reform that didn’t protect the right of a women to choose. Now, as Rachel Maddow said on Meet the Press “It’s the biggest restriction on abortion access in this country in a generation.” Martha is getting hit by both her opponents and the media for her principled stance. Civil rights are civil rights. Women as a group have joined the LGBT community, we’ve both been thrown under the bus.

Anyone who wants to join in the discussion or help Martha Coakley win here are some sites:
Donations: http://www.actblue.com/page/mc2010
Or read more about these issues; http://womenforcoakley.com or campaign site: http://marthacoakley.com
We need a national team to help us elect the most qualified candidate and defeat the Massachusetts’s old boy network. First woman in it’s history for the Senate, 221 years-not acceptable. Principle over party for sure.

My response to first reading about this boycott was to say “Finally” because I actually began doing this with every donation request when it became apparent that Obama and this administration was more concerned with Olympia Snowe than with real reform. In my letters to this party I listed everything contained within their platform that I was voting for when I voted last November. I must confess, though, that I took it one step further. I re-registered as an Independent. I then sent letters to the interested parties, and advised them of this change in status. Again, naming each component of the platform presented that was not being addressed, or not congruent with their platform, and campaign. This is a symbolic gesture. How I, in fact, vote may not change but I am letting them know that they cannot take me for granted. They cannot assume I am “one of them”. What, I wonder, would happen if enough progressives did that? How would the party respond if the progressives left, even if only symbolically? Who knows. But I have communicated my displeasure at being thrown under the bus. And I did sign the petition. With only our voice and our vote joining them together even symbolically, carries more weight.

Unsubscribing to OFA sends the message to them that they have lost your support. I think it is an excellent idea.

Not a dime from me until I see some real progressive initiatives passed. I had already made up my mind when Obama picked Rahm to be his COS. My vote and my money are too precious to be squandered away on half-ass Democrats who really don’t represent me.

OK you two. Take a deep breath and settle down. Please. Nothing here to start a firefight over.

Like Eureka Springs I got carried away with a list and forgot all about the acronyms. This, hopefully, will open the flood gates for folks to tell the Democrats just what they think of the selling out of their values and beliefs over the last decades.

I’m afraid it has to go both ways. A third Party can force the Democrats to move to the left fro pragmatic reasons, making it easier for progressives to become more powerful in the Party. The Socialist Party and Huey long both helped Roosevelt to move left in 1935 and to implement the Second New Deal.

So, unfortunately, I think progressives will probably have to split, some continuing with the effort to take over the Democratic Party from within. Others going to a third party. The third party is the more difficult route, because unless the Democrats entirely implode because of the split between progressives and corporatists, a progressive third party will probably not be a permanent institution however influential it turns out to be over a period of 20-25 years.

Nope. I’ve argued against that being enough recently.

It does. It would be a fantastic victory for progressives and would launch a new progressive era.

I think that’s a bit of a misunderstanding: no one’s talking about no longer “giving, fund raising or campaigning….”

But not through the party.

ONLY to individual campaigns that reflect the values and agenda important to me- (us?)

As Reboot923 says just above (@79): “My vote and my money are too precious to be squandered away on half-ass Democrats who really don’t represent me.”

So, unfortunately, I think progressives will probably have to split, some continuing with the effort to take over the Democratic Party from within. Others going to a third party. The third party is the more difficult route, because unless the Democrats entirely implode because of the split between progressives and corporatists, a progressive third party will probably not be a permanent institution however influential it turns out to be over a period of 20-25 years.

I think that a split strategy will be best, with an inside/outside approach allowing friendly progs inside the Democrat Party to hold up the spectre of the outsider progressive party to coerce progressive policies.

But the Dem hierarchy will resist that approach using the range of their toolkit, actively trying to take out Dems who don’t see the progressive party as a threat worse than the GOP.

The other problem is that election laws differ state by state and are amongst some the most arbitrary and capricious abrogations of democracy imaginable under the constitution.

Not only are the social and political hurdles almost insurmountable, but the structural hurdles simply cannot be overcome in some states, like Pennsylvania, where the Democrats fight light dogs to keep challengers off the ballot.

If you’re running a campaign and end up in court challenging ballot access laws, you’ve lost already.

What it is going to take is real person-to-person grassroots organizing, just like Obama did in the campaign, not virtual contact via email lists and websites.

I was in Disney World last week and saw the Hall of Presidents for the first time since they added Obama. Of all the presidents, he is by far the most realistic. They really captured his likeness perfectly. Obama himself did the vocals so it made it even more realistic.
They introduct the presidents in numerical order and of course ended with Obama who then went on to speak about hope, change and many positive things.
I was very impressed with the entire experience until he got to his final sentence. He said, “And I hope you can all contribute a few dollars to the DNC on your way out.”

Imo, the only message the powers that be over at OFA will get is if they see contributions decline in the next few months. I don’t think that removing my email address from among those in their mailing list would even hurt their feelings.

Besides, I find the information in those emails useful. For example, every time I’ve gotten a DCCC message from Rep. Van Hollen, I’ve used it to write diaries at FDL.

a split inside/outside strategy seems like a good compromise – and we know how (D)’s love compromise!

those who chose to work from the innards of the Donkey can continue to do so, and can make common cause with those who take the harder road.

these strategies can be mutually reinforcing, if the goal is to achieve what progressive change is possible via the government apparatus.

but if the goal is really more and maybe, possible, slightly, marginally better Democrats, well then the continued strident opposition to splitter advocacy is to be expected.

Unsubscribing has the unfortunate, perhaps unintentional, affect of depriving one of the opportunity to respond to funding appeals with pointed critiques of the latest example of Dems “duck and cover” political strategy.

But getting rid of OFA was fun. Especially the reasons message:

DADT, DOMA, state secrets pre-emption of judicial process, Bagram, drone incineration of Pakistani civilians, EFCA abandonment, pre-compromise on Single Payer, inhuman multiple deployments of depleted and exhausted military, pandering to DINOs and Empress Snowe, and, finally, the last straw, lukewarm after-the-fact critique of the Stupak Amendment that dishonestly suggests there’s a way to restrict women’s reproductive rights that won’t offend anyone.

I’ve gotten myself off most of those lists already, but I signed the pledge last night.

I think that the ‘big tent’ is about to split open: I don’t think there’s room any more for both the liberal/progressive wing and the ‘republican-lite’ wing. (With the GOP imploding, the Dems are probably going to explode.)

They didn’t provide real opportunities to respond to those e-mails, except by snailmail, and I’d bet that those went into the trash.

But returning written appeals with ‘hell no!’ written across them in red permanent marker – or lipstick! – would suit me fine.

Hey there. Emails sent to barackobama.com absolutely do get read.

I wonder if receiving a ton of unsubscribe emails all at once will get their attention? They wouldn’t even need to read the reasons, just having their inbox slammed ought to do the trick. I wrote a nice comment just in case. :)

Great idea

Well, if you cut money off to all Democrats, or split the non-fascist vote between Dems and third parties, you just elect Republicans. There’s a reason the Republicans love to throw millions of dollars at the Greens (and buy up state Green Parties) — they want them to be just strong enough to ensure Republican wins.

Instead, people are skipping the D-Trip and DNC and OFA and DSCC, donating directly to worthwhile candidates and insisting on primarying those where a primary would actually do some good and not just flush money down a toilet.

Of course, the corporate interests that own both parties will resist the kind of electoral reform that would bring representative democracy because they win irrespective of whether the D or the R takes the race.

And from here in San Francisco, it seems that IRV is a political science theory that does not deliver as promised in practice. The problem is single member districts and the requirement that electeds be superhuman baby friends of tens of thousands of people 24/7.

But this all takes tedious hard work, organizing, not just wanting and wishing and hoping.

To quote Amy Sedaris: “Must be nice to hope for the thing you wish to want. Sure beats doing it.”

There’s a reason the Republicans love to throw millions of dollars at the Greens — they want them to be just strong enough to ensure Republican wins.

Where was my check then?

And does the fact that the GOP games the system make the idea of independent parties wrong?

The Democrats don’t need our money. Their top contributor Goldman Sachs is loaded. Oh, yeah, they like to MAKE money, ours, not SPEND money, theirs.

I’d like to add that I did click on the link in the first line of Jane’s post and signed the pledge.

Jane,

I didn’t write my comments @ 51 and 68 to whine or complain. I wrote them because I’d like to help FDL as much as I can and don’t think it helps anyone to waste days of time and energy on things that won’t get much noticed at FDL or have much of an impact in advancing FDL’s goals.

If you’re interested in featuring Rob Miller here, great. I’m already on it and will finish it.

If you’re interested in continuing to hammer at Rep. Jim Cooper, great. I’ll be happy to continue doing it.

If you’re not, then I really have other things to do.

Need a response. Thanks.

An independent reason to boycott the DNC could be to protest Chairman Tim Kaine’s zeal for executing people.

Nobody’s going to take this threat seriously you know. I mean come on. Who do you think you’re playing with here? I’ve never given anything to any of those orgs and never would but for progressives I don’t think they can help themselves. Issuing threats that you have neither the intention nor capacity of fulfilling just makes you look silly. At least say this pledge has a window of let’s say three months so it sounds semi-plausible.

Having said that I suppose it’s like quitting smoking and although you might end up doing it a dozen times there will probably be some net effect of reducing their incomes.

By the way how did DADT become such a big deal? I support equal rights but frankly the equal “right” to go and help murder a million innocent people by butchering babies in Afghanistan and Iraq isn’t exactly at the top of the list of priorities.

Not to forget the fact that Kaine is big time pro-life. Ironic no?

I know there are many who fear doing anything to allow Republicans back in control, but I think those of you who think this action will do that must also consider how much the liberal community is getting out of a Democratic Party that uses them and subverts their platform to the service of corporatists so that they can fuel the re-election machine and act like they have changed things simply by being in the majority. It is becoming increasingly clear that more than half of the Democratic party has been corrupted and deserves to be unelected. In normal times the “lesser of two evils argument” makes some sense, like in 2000. However, the country and the world are in such dire economic and environmental peril at the moment that only urgent and swift change can avoid the real evil, which is a global melt-down in more ways than one. That is why many of us have slipped into despair, because we know that Obama and the Democratic leadership could have and should have pushed their advantage and insisted on a liberal agenda. Now many of us find ourselves disapproving of the President at levels equal to the Tea Baggers. But let us dispense with the football fan approach to this. Just because the Democrats win something clearly has very little relation to the little guy winning something. The hour is getting late and I fear that Obama and the Blue Dogs and the Progressives, by always caving, have squandered the one golden opportunity to make significant changes in the direction of the country. I, for one, support Jane on this issue and I do not find much of a negative about getting rid of the democrats who will not lend a hand and are blocking the hall way. Remember, Democrats in Republican + districts need more than our money, they need our vote because without base support they loose. If you have a Democrat acting like a Republican in a congressional seat, what have you lost by helping to replace him/her with a real Republican? I guess we loose the leadership if too many are replaced, but how much leadership do you see with the current crop of Democrats. They act paralyzed, either because it is convenient for them or they just don’t care that strongly about liberal issues. Who knows”Don’t Ask, Don’t Give” may shake a few of the bad apples up enough to act like card carrying members of the real Democratic Party.

simplistic (D) apologists like to argue that if the Republicans of the insurance companies oppose something, then it must be good, and conversely, if R’s have donated to the Pennsylvania Greens in 2006, then that is supposed to eliminate 3rd Party politics??? Ridonkulous!

And, as you point out, casting aspersions against funding sources does not play well for a Party so lavishly funded by Goldman Sachs!

but really, its like debating Creationists, they have a whole different Faith-based worldview whose assumptions are off limits to proof or criticism, whose axioms cannot be challenged by logic.

Democrats must be supported, no matter what! goes a central Axiom, even though this exact, unqualified support allows their long-suffering base to be utterly taken for granted, and therefore further exploited!

Huh, I’m seeing this discussion of third parties and how it usually ends up helping the Republicans.

And I can’t help but wonder: Had John McCain won last November, how different would it really be?

Anyone? Cause I see two wars, rendition, unlimited detention, GITMO, all still going along the same. And I DON’T see any domestic policies much different either. Maybe “Cash for Clunkers” would’ve been different. And we wouldn’t even be having a “health insurance reform” discussion. So what? As far as I’m concerned, this House health insurance reform bill is worse than no bill.

So maybe we would’ve been better off if McCain had won??

Don’t know if I can ever go there, but dammit before I’m going to get too worried about actions resulting in the Republicans winning, I need to see a real difference in the Democrats. Otherwise, what’s the big deal?

By the way, would someone be interested in doing a “what if” diary on how things would be if McCain would’ve won? I’d love to read it, cause I’m having a hard time seeing any real difference myself.

Well, I’m pretty damn sure Lily Ledbetter Act would not be law. And there actually have been a few other good things that I’m too lazy to go look for at the moment that no way in hell would a McCain administration passed.

And no matter what, it’s a good thing that Caribou Barbie isn’t sitting around in DeeCee waiting for the ol glue horse to move to better pastures.

Well, it’s kind of like the Yankees vs. the Phillies – if you are a devoted, lifelong fan of one team or the other, then yeah, there is a real difference, and you feel passionately about all the dynamics of the epochal battle.

But if thats not your sport, or you’re just an old Cubs fan, then its no big deal which team wins.

And unfortunately, that where it is with the (D) and the (R) Teams, unless the ability of the POTUS to speak complete paragraphs without a teleprompter or an earpiece matters more than all the dead and wounded American soldiers and Iraqi, Afghan, and Pakistani civilians.

And no matter what, it’s a good thing that Caribou Barbie isn’t sitting around in DeeCee waiting for the ol glue horse to move to better pastures.

Yep! There is THAT!!! lol

I could not agree with you more about the contributions,but would it not be better for all us to have those funds in hand an take out those DEMS and REP who have protrayed us in the past and even now. In other words forumlate a strategty where we find those candidates who share our views and they must be committed our ideas. AN EXAMPLE EMILY LIST,but different. In other words stop begging our present party to change there ways. By the way gay rights should not be our only concern either.

For the DNC’s request, I checked off “other amount” and wrote in a big fat “0″. I then requested they ask Goldman-Sachs for a contribution. Included a few magnets to increase postage. To hell with the DNC!

All probably true, and that will take money.

I feel the same way. Also, I find I can use their forms to deliver negative messages through OFA.

That’s true. I think the goal has to be for progressives both inside and outside to work for progressive goals. I don’t think that will stop those inside from improving their position if they can win primaries. If they can’t their numbers will diminish.

I think that’s right. If the Republicans shrink by another 5 points in the polls and there’s no one left but the wingnuts, then, there will be a “moderate Republican” corporatist bloc, no longer identifying as Republican, with much in common with the blue dogs. The blue dogs can make common cause with them to form a party of their own.

There we are! The difference between Obama and McCain as exposed by dakine01. Gee, I was hoping for change I can believe in, I didn’t know that any spare change counted.

We might have a female president by now. (Well, we might have had one, but she’d have resigned after a month so she could do something or other that was incoherently described.)

Got a snail mail fundraising pitch from the DCCC yesterday. I scrawled “ARE YOU KIDDING???” across the pledge remittance slip and sent it back in the postage-paid envelope. Without a stamp. Fuck ‘em.