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	<title>Comments on: Two Reasons For Reconciliation; Save The Public Option And Kill The Stupak Amendment</title>
	<atom:link href="http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/</link>
	<description>Politics for liberal newsgeeks</description>
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		<title>By: letsgetitdone</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-60183</link>
		<dc:creator>letsgetitdone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 23:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-60183</guid>
		<description>Right. But to make a difference here you&#039;ve got to get 2 million people to Washington to tear up the town, and why would they do that? To get the House bill, without Stupak passed? It was a POS before Stupak changed things. 

You want to get 2 million people to Washington to change things? Tell them that if they come, the Senate will pass Medicare for All and defend it in Conference, if they come, but only if they come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. But to make a difference here you&#8217;ve got to get 2 million people to Washington to tear up the town, and why would they do that? To get the House bill, without Stupak passed? It was a POS before Stupak changed things. </p>
<p>You want to get 2 million people to Washington to change things? Tell them that if they come, the Senate will pass Medicare for All and defend it in Conference, if they come, but only if they come.</p>
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		<title>By: stephhunter</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-60092</link>
		<dc:creator>stephhunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-60092</guid>
		<description>Good article.  I think saving the public option is essential.  It would clearly serve many and work well with the right model.  This proves it: http://cli.gs/23yYaM/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article.  I think saving the public option is essential.  It would clearly serve many and work well with the right model.  This proves it: <a href="http://cli.gs/23yYaM/" rel="nofollow">http://cli.gs/23yYaM/</a></p>
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		<title>By: mikesong</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-60078</link>
		<dc:creator>mikesong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-60078</guid>
		<description>Interesting. This baby&#039;s going to reconciliation - unfortunately I do believe Lieberman and Nelson and a few others will filibuster.  If that caused us to lose the Stupak amendment, all the better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. This baby&#8217;s going to reconciliation &#8211; unfortunately I do believe Lieberman and Nelson and a few others will filibuster.  If that caused us to lose the Stupak amendment, all the better.</p>
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		<title>By: aliceintheglass</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-60064</link>
		<dc:creator>aliceintheglass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:02:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-60064</guid>
		<description>Jon,

I&#039;m not seeing it.  Speak slowly :)  At what point does Reid need to invoke reconciliation? The Senate hurdles ahead as outlined by Chris Bowers: &quot;First, on the cloture vote to bring the bill to the floor for debate and amendment.  Second, on the cloture vote to end that debate and bring up a floor vote on the overall bill.  Third, on the cloture vote to end debate and bring up a floor vote on the overall health care bill after the health care bill is returned from conference&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not seeing it.  Speak slowly :)  At what point does Reid need to invoke reconciliation? The Senate hurdles ahead as outlined by Chris Bowers: &#8220;First, on the cloture vote to bring the bill to the floor for debate and amendment.  Second, on the cloture vote to end that debate and bring up a floor vote on the overall bill.  Third, on the cloture vote to end debate and bring up a floor vote on the overall health care bill after the health care bill is returned from conference&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Fractal</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-59990</link>
		<dc:creator>Fractal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-59990</guid>
		<description>This is very promising strategy.  

As previous thread made clear, the House bill has now become intolerable.  Time to kill it unless Stupak is taken out and robust public option is put back in.  For a moment I felt guilty that I didn&#039;t know Stupak was about to fuck up abortion rights, but then I realized he &amp; the Catholic bishops kept it secret until the last second.  We were clearly outplayed on this one.  We never had a chance to whip it or do a money bomb to prove our determination.  

P.S. I just called Stupak&#039;s office to let them know they are going to suffer serious payback for abusing their power in gutting abortion rights.  Staffer did not &quot;scream&quot; or accuse me of &quot;yelling,&quot; so they have apparently decided to suck it up and take the criticism.  His main rebuttal to my claim this was done secretly in conspiracy with Catholic bishops was that Stupak offered his amendment in committee, said he would bring it up again on the floor, and had support of House leadership to do so.  He didn&#039;t deny they conspired with the bishops, didn&#039;t seem fazed that the Committee REJECTED it, and was silent when I told him we blame House leadership as much as Stupak for the last-minute, secret play in Rules Committee.  I told him passing Stupak was a major mistake for the party and both supporters of Stupak &amp; Dem. party leadership will see payback.  He said he would pass it along to the Congressman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very promising strategy.  </p>
<p>As previous thread made clear, the House bill has now become intolerable.  Time to kill it unless Stupak is taken out and robust public option is put back in.  For a moment I felt guilty that I didn&#8217;t know Stupak was about to fuck up abortion rights, but then I realized he &amp; the Catholic bishops kept it secret until the last second.  We were clearly outplayed on this one.  We never had a chance to whip it or do a money bomb to prove our determination.  </p>
<p>P.S. I just called Stupak&#8217;s office to let them know they are going to suffer serious payback for abusing their power in gutting abortion rights.  Staffer did not &#8220;scream&#8221; or accuse me of &#8220;yelling,&#8221; so they have apparently decided to suck it up and take the criticism.  His main rebuttal to my claim this was done secretly in conspiracy with Catholic bishops was that Stupak offered his amendment in committee, said he would bring it up again on the floor, and had support of House leadership to do so.  He didn&#8217;t deny they conspired with the bishops, didn&#8217;t seem fazed that the Committee REJECTED it, and was silent when I told him we blame House leadership as much as Stupak for the last-minute, secret play in Rules Committee.  I told him passing Stupak was a major mistake for the party and both supporters of Stupak &amp; Dem. party leadership will see payback.  He said he would pass it along to the Congressman.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Walker</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-59988</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-59988</guid>
		<description>I think the difference is whether the 12 million signed up for the public option will like it. If they like it there will be some real pressure. More importantly if it decrease cost on the Exchange the finance pressure for small and midsize businesses to use it will be huge. Say what you will about the lobbying power of AHIP. If bulk of businesses in the 50-300 employee range start seeing it as a way to cut 10% off the cost of their health insurance they will roll AHIP so fast. AHIP has nothing on the collect power of midsize business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the difference is whether the 12 million signed up for the public option will like it. If they like it there will be some real pressure. More importantly if it decrease cost on the Exchange the finance pressure for small and midsize businesses to use it will be huge. Say what you will about the lobbying power of AHIP. If bulk of businesses in the 50-300 employee range start seeing it as a way to cut 10% off the cost of their health insurance they will roll AHIP so fast. AHIP has nothing on the collect power of midsize business.</p>
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		<title>By: jenjen</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-59984</link>
		<dc:creator>jenjen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-59984</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the useful links.  Hadn&#039;t found much other discussion of this.  

But it seems high risk to act in the hope that the PO will be expanded after the fact.  When public pressure is down, and we are back to doing our day jobs instead of sneaking time to respond to action alerts, AHIP will still be on the job 24/7, doing everything they can to prevent expansion of access to the PO.  Doing everything they can to make sure that my health $$ go to their cartel, not to a public plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the useful links.  Hadn&#8217;t found much other discussion of this.  </p>
<p>But it seems high risk to act in the hope that the PO will be expanded after the fact.  When public pressure is down, and we are back to doing our day jobs instead of sneaking time to respond to action alerts, AHIP will still be on the job 24/7, doing everything they can to prevent expansion of access to the PO.  Doing everything they can to make sure that my health $$ go to their cartel, not to a public plan.</p>
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		<title>By: foothillsmike</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-59946</link>
		<dc:creator>foothillsmike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-59946</guid>
		<description>Time for Harry Reid to shit or get off the pot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Time for Harry Reid to shit or get off the pot.</p>
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		<title>By: nomolos</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-59928</link>
		<dc:creator>nomolos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 19:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-59928</guid>
		<description>There is also the slight possibility that BO will stop listening to his owners and veto any bill that contains the misogynous Stupak Amendment.  I mean, isn&#039;t about time that he does what he promised as in &quot;No one will loose their health insurance.&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also the slight possibility that BO will stop listening to his owners and veto any bill that contains the misogynous Stupak Amendment.  I mean, isn&#8217;t about time that he does what he promised as in &#8220;No one will loose their health insurance.&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: justbetty</title>
		<link>http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/11/09/two-reasons-for-reconciliation-save-the-public-option-and-kill-the-stupak-amendment/#comment-59894</link>
		<dc:creator>justbetty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/?p=4794#comment-59894</guid>
		<description>Headline at msn.com based on an article at MSNBC stating ” A government health insurance plan included in the House bill is unacceptable to a few Democratic moderates who hold the balance of power in the Senate.” The article quotes only Lindsey Graham, Joe Lieberman and Mary Landrieu. Who knew these were the moderate Democrats? Amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Headline at msn.com based on an article at MSNBC stating ” A government health insurance plan included in the House bill is unacceptable to a few Democratic moderates who hold the balance of power in the Senate.” The article quotes only Lindsey Graham, Joe Lieberman and Mary Landrieu. Who knew these were the moderate Democrats? Amazing.</p>
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