Jane and I disagree on the strategy to follow for hcr, but she’s the real thing and everyone here, whether we disagree with her or not think she’s a person of great courage and conviction who is really making a difference.

I like the SP orgs a lot and hope we can work together to marry strategy with policy. The best way to do that is not for me to jump in and hijack their plans.

Really???? Reluctant to jump in? Seriously, we are all on the same side for justice. I think they would appreciate some help right now.

I see this as a wonderful time for you to jump in and use your strength and the strength of FDL to give a jolt to the sell outs. To bring together, and you could if you had the will, to join the divided camps of single payer and public option. The separation had mutual respect though frustration usually. Why not throw some help their way and do it publicly? It would help all of us.

I am only catching this comment from you now. You are a leader of FDL that waged a PO war. The only chance progressives have is if the pragmatic progressives cover the backs of the non-public option progressives, now. The camp was divided. Can you see that, Jane? I pray you can. Help us unite with passion and fight for what is right.

You tried hard as did everyone to deal with these guys. But why not keep our eyes on the ultimate prize. They lost the right for increments. Because their way of compromise is to trick and to not really give, bait and switch.

I hope you as leader are strong enough to do some straightout now backing of Single Payer Medicare for All. To use your leadership for universal health care fight.

Why not back Bernie’s S703 and let that go on record. Are we afraid of failing? Shit. It’s worth it to do the rallying and we actually have a decent bill that is on the calendar.

WHY NOT?????

Jane. FWIW, I appreciate more than I can say the effort and commitment you’ve expended on behalf of the public option. And, I stand in awe of your energy and dedication. What you’ve accomplished, in spite, to spite, despite the realities, is commendable.

Ditto.

I also didn’t have complete confirmation, until a week ago, that this notion held by so many people in the lefty blogosphere that DailyKos somehow retains some bona fides as even a mild “change-agent for progressive good in this country” … was just an utter steaming pile of horse-shit.

The Dean Progressives have lost there too. Completely outnumbered now by the centrist spawns who showed up in droves at the megamall after the unexpected midterm wins in Nov 2006. They came all-a-blazin to figure out what in darn tootin’ all this blogging thing was about that was flying in the face of Rham’s “20 Strategic States” strategy losing to Howard Dean’s “50-state Strategy”… From then on they’ve been breeding like rabbits.

The megamall still has its strengths in some key strong voices and writers and analysts. But by and large, it’s a joke to compare the site owner’s books message with the prevailing winds that drive that site now.

All of which is to say, to you Jane: As much decline as I’ve seen there since the real progressive days of the 04 Howard Dean election cycle, I never thought I would see the day you’re not only trashed on Page 1 of that site, and throughout multiple “Recommended Diaries”, but moreso that the site owner never once, to my knowledge, stepped in to slap that down.

Many a time he’s stepped in to slap down some negative talk about his former partner Jerome, or his buddy Peter Daou, but the way he let you hang in the breeze there, ruthless insults being hurled your way, and his turning a blind eye to it all… that disgusted me more than anything else I’ve seen go down there.

And I know, I know, there are those here who would say “why would you hang out there anyway?”, but to those who would, I would just say “you DON’T know” my history, because I am not a common poster here.

But I can track as well as anyone else who claims the gift of knowing every move and advance of the emergence of this whole lefty blogosphere since 99-2000… and I have never seen such insulting behavior in all that time as what I saw last week. And I’ve seen a lot, including such low points as when Joe Trippi tried to corral the Howard Dean activists the moment Howard dropped out — in a slick move called “Change for America” — which rightfully died a very quick death.

I am just so sorry for you Jane that you would be treated that way — and it really points to how faux so many so-called progressives are in reality. And way under-informed. I’ll just end by saying my Congresswoman is Madame Decider, Pelosi.. And I, ostensibly, live in a very liberal city? or district?

Not on your life. On any given day I could walk down the street in what would seem like a “liberal, progressive” area of San Francisco, and I kid you not, I’d be lucky if one in 100 people ever heard of the word FISA, and forget it if I were to ask if they knew that the hub for domestic spying in the United States was at the AT&T switching station on Folsom street downtown just 6 blocks from DiFi’s office, and about 20 from Nancy’s SF lair?

CLUELESS ! and this is supposedly liberal capital of the USA.

These centrists are everywhere — and they’re the least informed about what’s going on in the nation, or their backyards. To me, the only way to get some leverage is to go after and link-up with the remains of the old Meetup Leaders of the 04 Dean campaign. Those were progressives, and as far as I can see, they’ve been marginalized and sent packing — and the one thing that Dean always said about that powerful core of people: Most had not been involved in politics prior, in any way shape or form, because they were given no reason to be.

I’m looking here at a completely different gestalt from the specifics of the proposals put forth for health care reform over the past year. I’ve seen the undoing of the progressive movement, and I can tell you it’s not being helped by sites like DailyKos– those key exceptional voices notwithstanding.

While they pilloried you and called you vulgar names, I saw nothing but poise and clarity when you’d appear on Rachel Maddow’s show, or any other show. I am proud of you as well.

because the absence of a PO, provides a much better basis for future political action supporting SP, than a bill that has a clearly (to us) inadequate PO, because the opponents of reform will just tell everyone looking for single payer, that everyone should wait and see how this wonderful PO that progressives fought so hard for will work. We have to remember that the idea of the PO has been oversold from the beginning, and since the “bait-and-switch” tactics of Democrats, HCAN, and other veal pen organizations have accelerated, more and more outrageous claims have been made for the version of the PO in bills “on the table,” until lately Alan Grayson has been saying that Nancy Pelosi’s wonderful House bill is going to end the fatalities due to lack of insurance. After all the claims they’ve made to get this PO passed, if they succeed, the Democrats are not about to back off those claims and admit that the bill with the PO is one that needs to be greatly strengthened before 2013, because it won’t end the deaths, bankruptcies and foreclosures, as they promised in 2009.

thanks letsgetitdone. this is an important point i had not considered. lots of good food for thought….

“Number 1 Option: 100% Canadian Style SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE

Number 2 Option: Preloaded Jacob Hacker Public Option

Number 3 Option: Allow States To Adopt Single Payer”

We should only support and talk about one option. We all believe that this is a moral issue and that HR 676 or variations on it are the solution. So, this is our only option. Leave it to non-HR 676 supporters to talk to themselves about compromise. Let’s get them pre-compromising for a change. We talk only about Medicare for All, single-payer and all its wonderful advantages over other proposals.

Here is one more very important reason to Kill this House HCR bill in the Senate that is not listed above;
In the House HCR bill the CHIP program gets the final ax in 2014, 11.1 Million kids are covered by CHIP. These are some of the at risk people in this House HCR bill! Most of them are above 200% of FPL! In the House HCR bill Medicaid gets increased from 100-130%FPL to 150% of FPL with 91% of the cost of the new participants getting covered by the Feds not the States. But did you know that right now every state in the Union offers something; either Medicaid or CHIP to most children over 130% of FPL up to 200-400% FPL, already! So this increase in Medicaid along with the end of CHIP is a net zero for lower-mid income children! Right Now 7 states limit their Medicaid/CHIP to less than 200% FPL, 27 states limit their Medicaid/CHIP to between 200-300% of FPL, 16 states limit their Medicaid/CHIP to between 300-400% FPL. In the House HC bill at 200% of FPL, even with Federal subsidies for premiums in the Health Care Exchange, a family will have to pay at least 10% of their income on Health Care; premiums, copays, deductibles, where as now their children get CHIP subsidized Health Care. At 400% FPL, even with Fed. subsidies for their insurance premiums in the Exchange, a family will be paying 25% of their income to premiums, co pays, deductibles, where as now in 16 states, their children may be getting CHIP from the Feds/States! So this is a real net loss for the lower-mid income children in this country!!! Basically from 200-400%FPL, these families are losing very subsidized comprehensive CHIP care for their kids and trading subsidized but still too expensive, private insurance with ?benefits for the entire family!

I do not think this is a good enough trade!!! I think there will be many of those 11 Million CHIP kids who fall through the cracks of this bill, ending up without good Health Care!

I think that $60 Billion a year going as subsidies to the Private Health Insurance corporations and therefore partially going to Big Pharma, and remember the Sec. of HHS can also contract out to private corporations to administer the Public Option, is too much to spend for too little! The average subsidy in the exchange will be $5500-6800! There is NO downward pressure on the Insurance corporations or Big Pharma to control their costs, in fact they get rewarded!!! So all of us will suffer year after year with ever increasing premiums, copays and deductibles!!!

I think that $167 Billion a year in fines and penalties from individuals and small businesses who just can’t seem to afford the Health Insurance costs is too much!

I think the Stupid amendment is stupid and it sounds like it will be out of the final bill according to many Reps and Sens that I have listened to over the last 2 days!

We, Progressives must start calling Congress to Kill the Bill and try to get all the left of center organizations; HCAN, MoveOn, Unions to join us! At first I was saying Obama’s 8 points of Insurance Reform is the substitute and then later we approach Single Payer after we have built our coalitions but you are right, this is the moment to really …..

……….REFOCUS our efforts and DRAW THE LINE IN THE SAND -

You had your chance Congress and your solution is NOT good enough for us! We do not want to leave out 18 Million humans from the Health Care system. We do not want to cut loose 11 Million Chip Kids. We do not want to send all of our money to the Health Insurance corporations, they have done a lousy job over the past 20-30 years and we do not want to reward them!

We want you to vote no on HR 3962 and the Senate version too and consider, score and discuss HR 676, Medicare for All!

If we start this campaign we will win on at least some level, it is almost guaranteed;
-either we get the Stupid amendment out and a stronger Public Option in by the Senate,
-or we will Kill the Sucky HCR bill and open the field for what we really want; Single Payer
-or they pass a Sucky Senate bill too but we have empowered the Progressives in the House to really fight it when it comes back to them.

Please call for HR 676, Medicare For All as no#1! It is simple to understand, HR 676 is already written, we can never allow Congress to write another one of our bills, they are NOT CAPABLE of writing a bill that is going to be acceptable to us Progressives! Let us NEVER make that mistake again! We have spent the entire summer following their squiggly path to a completely weak Public Option. Let’s make a pact with each other right now, that we will NEVER allow them to write another one of our bills! We write it, at least 90% of it and we name it and then we give it them. We should only lobby for our bills and no others! WE CAN NOT TRUST CONGRESS EVER AGAIN!

I also agree with this list below in the order it is listed;

Number 1 Option: 100% Canadian Style SINGLE PAYER HEALTH CARE

Number 2 Option: Preloaded Jacob Hacker Public Option

Number 3 Option: Allow States To Adopt Single Payer

Anything less is unacceptable, Kill HR 3962, start over. Start with the Dems that didn’t vote for it in the House and start with the Dems that don’t support it in the Senate, they will help Kill the Bill.

The Red States are our friends on this campaign to Kill the Bill but of course they are hopeless for HR 676, start with the Purple States for that.

Tell Obama with a dead horse’s head attached to the message -

“Pass Single Payer Health Care by the Fall of 2012 or no reelection victory”

Nader has lost it, he can’t even stay on topic anymore. We need a serious Lefty to primary Obama if that fails….Kucinich/ Grayson/ Sanders!!!

Got any ideas? Yes, let’s start calling Congress before we get confused again!!!

We know what we must do, if you want Single Payer, then its TIME TO DO IT
Thanks to all for picking up the phone to Congress…..

I am going to start making 10 calls to Congress a day to push for Sanders bill or to castigate House members for their betrayal.

See you soon on campus and will brainstorm and be looking for ideas elsewhere.

I see so many of my acquaintances totally apathetic about what is going on with health care. That “mystification” powerplay, this is beyond understanding, is so effective in discouraging oversight by the very people being super ripped off.

Gotta go but will check in again. Thanks for response!